It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. I'm your host, Claude Harmon. I guess this week is one of the bright stars on the PGA Tour, Max Homa. He's a big fan favorite. I thought he had a really good year, got himself into contention at the Masters, but some significant changes made the decision to leave his swing instructor, Mark Blackburn, who I think is one of the best instructors in the game, changed all of his equipment, leaving Titleist and
moving over to Cobra. So I got to sit down with Max, and it's a really good talk and I think everybody's going to enjoy listening to kind of the decision making process. Listen, anytime players make changes, you know, changing coaches, changing equipment, you know, there's loads of data points that say that is successful for some players and not for others. But I think it's a really good interview. And like I said, I'm a big Maxhoma fan. He's
been on the pod before. I had him on a couple of years ago, but I got to spend some time with him when he was at my place, the Floridian during the Cobra Puma photo shoot. So I think this is a good one. I think you guys are gonna like it. It's Max Homa on the Sun of Butch Podcast Max twenty twenty four season, twenty two events, eighteen cuts, three top tens, almost four million had a chance at Augusta. What great are we giving twenty twenty four for you?
Yeah, I mean like a high d low CI I i'd grade at lower, but the Masters was I got a bit of a monkey off my back. You know, I had never really played worth a darn and in a major. I had one top ten prior to that, but was never in contention. I think I lost by twenty seven of Brian Harmon. So to be in the mix that, I guess I gotta give it some kind of grade. I learned a lot this year, but yeah, I didn't have a lot of highlights. But you know they always say you get to learn a lot when
you don't play well. I had a lot of weeks or I learned a lot.
I think you're one of the players that you know obviously, you know, huge fan favorite. Everybody wants to see you do well. It was really cool this year at Augusta to see you kind of finally get in the mix,
like really get in the mix. Like there's getting in the mix, but then there's like, okay, we're talking like five, six and seven on the back nine, I mean on the front nine on Sunday at a Gusta where like, okay, nobody knows it and everybody has been waiting for you to get in the mix in a major to have a legit chance. What was that experience like and was
it different than what you thought? And is it something that maybe now that you've been there, you could maybe access more often because you've been in that situation.
Yeah, I think so. I think golf is I think life in general, but golf for me is so unique because you can do things.
At a high level. But I always say, you.
Know, there's plenty of guys on tour revet one yet and the common thing to say is, oh, he's gonna win one. But for that person, you don't know what's inside you until you do win one, Like you have to get over that hump. And so I wasn't sure. Even though I have won golf tournaments and play well in the team events, you know, high pressure situations, I didn't know what being around the lead in a major would feel like.
On a Saturday or a Sunday.
And so I guess what I took from the Masters this year was I know I can win one. I know what I have, what's inside me to win when I still need to go prove I have the game to do it. But it was cool, you know, in that you know the pressure I played with Tiger Thursday Friday, that was a lot. I was final group on Saturday, and then you know, while my ball was in the air on off the twelve t, while I was flying towards the green, that was you know, I had done
everything I needed to do. I love the shot, and while it's in the air, I thought to myself, you know, in a way romanticizing this a bit, but I was like, man, I'm gonna have six holes around the lead here to finish off Augusta and I got a very bad bounce and jumped in the ivy and made double and kind of killed my chances. Looking the way Scotty finished around,
I'm not so sure I was gonna catch him. But I just was very proud that I learned that the same stuff I feel like I've shown in regular tour events and the team events of just being able to you know, I guess have the moxie and the sack to do it. For lack of a better term. I had that again at the Masters, and I just wasn't prepared for all, like the media attention and the phone blowing up and just really having that. Was fortunately changed my phone like a month before because even with people
not having it, I got a lot of tech. So that stuff is what I learned about it. So I think taking that going forward can be quite helpful. But I also, yeah, I look back on that and I wasted a lot of shots here and there and still had a chance on Sunday. So I think, like anything you riise, you don't need to be perfect to you know, kind of accomplish something great in this game.
How much of getting in the hunt and having a chance to win a major was different than you thought? Because I think a lot of people think, Okay, my technique has to be good to get there. But I think what you're saying is maybe it wasn't so much about the technique, it's just when you get into those situations. I always say to players here, trying to win a major championship is like trying to climb Mount Everest and Sunday.
If you're in one of the last couple of groups, it's the death zone on Everest, right, everybody's I'll be fine up there, I'll make good decisions. But when you get up there, things kind of change and stuff like that. Did you notice a different feeling that you hadn't felt before, because obviously you've won tournaments before, You've won tournaments on big time golf courses too. That's one of the things I love about your game, Quail Hollow. Major championships are
played there. You can't fake it around there. Riv obviously you being from California, you can't fake it around those are but back nine in the mix on Sunday in a major championship, but also the one that everybody wants to win. Augusta, Was it.
Different than you thought it would be? And was it harder or.
Easier than you thought it was going to be?
Yeah, I would say, I mean, it's a great question. I would say, like the the harder than I thought it would be is the mornings again with just the attention and you know, we get a off at three o'clock. I mean, it was those are the longest. That was the grind Saturday and Sunday. It was a lot of time kind of spent, you know, trying to distract myself. But also, you know, I journal a lot, and I'm writing a lot of notes in there just about like what I want to accomplish and what I'm proud of
and things of that nature. But like I've always said about myself and I think a lot of guys, is when I get to the golf course and I get my hands finally on a golf club, I just feel like at home again. So I think that part was easier than I thought. It's nerve wracking, it scary, but I mean, I'll say, like the first tea at the Ryder Cups, the last scarier than pretty much anything else. So those types of things, like they still feel like home and they're fun. The mornings are not fun. They're
not enjoyable. You want it to get to be twelve o'clock as fast you can. I was going to the course early to go work out, to just shake off some butterflies and get back. But as far as the decision making, when I was pretty proud. It was actually Saturday's round, it was still very, very windy, and the
greens had gotten like absurdly fast. They were the fastest screens I've ever put on, and you know, we were supposed to get an easier day Saturday, so I think everyone's mindset was, Hey, we're going to get off and start making some birdies. And we had a pretty conservative outlook on how we're a strategy, on how we're going to play the place. I rely a lot on my
caddy Joe to do that. And you know, I was really proud because Saturday, I hit the ball really well, couldn't get a putt to go, and I made seventeen pars in a bow, yet didn't make a birdie, and I don't think I had I think I was only two back going into Sunday. I was proud of the thirteenth hole, had an OKT shot and had a very difficult shot in. And I'm always the one who wants to go for something and Joe is always the one
telling me, you know, you don't have that one. And he asked me on thirteen, He goes, is it time to go? And I just remember being very calm and I says, no, It's like not the time, Like we're not we're not playing ourselves out of a golf tourment by taking on a shot that I mean, they're hitting a seven wood or a three wood off a hanging lie to a green that's going to be a brick anyway.
So I just was proud of that.
There are some things maybe on Sunday wish maybe would have played a little more aggressive, but again I don't have a lot to look back on and think, man, we made poor decisions. So I was very proud of how we kind of just played like we do. And I think that's why I have been successful on Sundays in tour events, because I feel like I do a very good job of just being myself and playing how I would and letting, as you said, the death zone, letting everybody else, you know, miss a step. I just
keep kind of plugging along. But then you do have to have a great game, and I mean you look at someone like Scotty, I mean end up beating us by a hundred. So to think I could have sat there and made up that many strokes, even taken a bad bounce out, I mean it would have been quite the task. So I do think, like I said, what I learned is I have like what's inside me to do it. You do need to prove it with the actual golf clubs too, so that's a whole other thing.
But I was cool, happy with the.
Experience, and I do think I have a lot to take towards, like the next time I'm in that kind of position.
When you came out of cal and turn pro in fourteen, did you know that decisions that you were going to make like that on the back nine on Sunday even existed right now? Like you're in that situation at Augusta Nashville thirteen and is it time to go?
Would you have made that.
Decision coming out of college or have you learned now having been.
On tour and been in.
These situations and gotten yourself in the hunt having won, you know, six times? Is that different than the way you would have thought coming out of college.
Absolutely.
I remember I got great advice from a great friend of mine right before I on my first event at Couil Hollow, and I basically was like Saturday night and I was kind of freaking out. I texted somebody, I was like, hey, what do you do? Like what is it about? And he just gave me great device and it kind of boils down to just be yourself and trust that you know you're gonna get yourself across the
finish line. And that's taken me a long way. And so no, in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, I don't I think I would have been trying to win a golf tournament too much and instead of just trusting our strategy, trusting Joe, trusting that I will hit a great golf shot or make a great putt at some point and that's going to be what does it instead of trying to be you know, I play with Bryson on Saturday, and Bryson obviously hits it nine miles and very high,
and he can do things I can't do. And I do think a younger me would have been trying to keep up with what he is doing instead of looking at myself and saying, well, what am I very good at that? That's why I struggle with coming out. So you know, you learn a lot in this game, and I've been doing it a while now, so it would be a completely different situation that I had. I've been in that position as like a twenty two year old, you know, dumb ass kid pretty much.
What were you like as a junior golfer, because I always think it's interesting to look at where players are now and everybody thinks, okay, yeah, you've just had this arc in this trajectory. Yeah, but when you were a junior golfer, when you were thirteen, fourteen years old, when you look back at what your game was like then, what were you really good at back in the day, when you were really young playing junior golf and high school golf, What were you not good at?
Yeah?
I was.
I was always a good iron player. I was very small as a kid.
So when we would play these you know, elite ish type southern California golf tournaments, there would be players like she Won Kim. He was a big old boy and he had it nine miles and I hit it absolutely nowhere and I was hitting four and alls. He's in pitching wedgeonto what ended up happening as I got very comfortable with a four iron. So back in junior golf, going in, you know, in through high school, I was always a good iron player. I drove the ball good enough.
I was never a great putter, but my short game I could I could kind of make up for some things with it. I was a grinder, but yeah, play other sports. Yeah, I played everything up until I was about I remember the day we were just talking about this yesterday. Actually, I remember the day I went played like a tournament champions for the Tour to Tour Cup SCPGA Tour, the Southern California Junior Golf Tour, and it
was my first time getting into it. And I think I was eleven ten or eleven and play at these two kids, who was it, Philip Chin and somebody else, and I remember they beat me by like fourteen and it was a hard golf course.
I shot like eighty four and I was like.
How often do you guys practice, because at the time I'm playing flag football and playing baseball and playing basketball and now golf on like maybe a Saturday, that was about it. And they're like, oh, we practice every day. And I remember I went into the car my mom drove me home, and I said, I need you to do me a favor and just drive me the golf course every day. And that was kind of the day. I remember treating this like a job, like it was seven days a week. As often as my mom could
drop me off and pick me up. I was going to the golf course and stopped playing all the other sports and focused on one thing because I knew this is what I love the most, and it was also the best chance. I wasn't really going to make the league in basketball or football, so I was, I guess, uh, realistic enough to know that. So yeah, really turned it into like my passion and my job, and and uh, obviously it's been it's been cool to get to continue to do that for the last you.
Know, you played college, you played college golf at Cal. That's a great school. You're playing, you know, Division one college golf. The level from junior golf. I think everybody that, all the juniors that I work with, they're trying to make that jump from being a high school golfer.
To a junior golfer.
What were you better at when you graduated from Cal than you were when you started?
Yeah, so that's a good one course management for sure. My roommate in college, Eric Mina, he was a couple years older than me. He had won pack tens. I like to joke I won Pac twelves, but he won pack tens. Uh. He had really taught me how to be like a pro and and think my way around a golf course and not have it, but turned it into something. He was the best at that, and he taught me a lot of that, and I didn't have
that when I was a kid. It was like, if my swing didn't feel good, I was going to play bad. If I got a bad break, I was going to play bad and get into court. Horse management really improved there. A short game for sure. We had a great short game facility at CAL and all the guys that's just what we would do all day. The range blew like thirty miles an hour every single day off the right,
so people didn't hit a lot of golf balls. So I think I left there with a better short game again, in a bit more grit and grind, but just the course management for sure, and growing up. I think for kids that are making the lead from high school to college, I think the hardest part your freshman year is time management. I mean, you're going to school, you got two full time jobs. You need to do well in school and you need to do well in golf, so it's just hard.
You get kicked in the butt a lot by the lack of time. You do have to get great at golf, so I think you learn a lot about that too. You grow up very quickly.
You're caddy Jo Grinder. I think you guys are one of the best teams out there. The role that he plays both on and off the golf course. Talk about the role that he plays on the golf course, and then talk about the role he plays off the golf course.
Yeah. I mean this with no disrespect to any of their caddies. I'm friends with a lot of you guys. With Joseph, best caddy on the planet. He works his tail off. Uh. He is a phenomenal golf for himself. He has amazing feel. He's left handed, and I don't think people realise, like, yeah he did. He played professional golf.
He played college golf at our junior college, then turn pro at College of the Kannada and turn pro, played on Canadian Tour for a little bit, then played the Carolinas Tour now and then ended up, you know, not playing anymore caddie for me, but being a lefty great golfer. I don't think people realize how hard it is for him to see what I do. Like a righty draw on a on a for a left either terminology.
I mean, I play golf I can play golf both left and right handed, but sometimes because I teach so much right handed, someone comes in that's left handed, even though I play left handed. The terminology, yeah, I just say, you know, you know, just move it a little bit right to left. I'm like, no, no, sorry, just move a little bit more left.
Yeah, exactly, shapes are different. I never thought about that, Yeah, he had. So he's a cutter of the ball like myself. So when we have it in off the right wing, that's a cutter's dream. I can fade it up against it. It's the easiest shot. And but for him, he must stand on that sea and feel uncomfortable, just innately. But him, you know, he just says such a great job, like, oh,
this tea SHOT's perfect. If sometimes I'd be like, let's lay up, He'll be like, no, this is a perfect left right te vault or you know, cut up against the win t ball for you.
So for him to have that on the golf course, it's amazing.
His strategy, his way of keeping me calm as best he can is amazing. But off the golf course, I mean it's a lot deeper than the work thing. I've known Joe since I was six years old. He's one of my closest friends. I mean, we just had my son's second birthday party and it was all family and then Joe and his wife Mila, so like they are part of my family. And I've always told him, you know, this is this is friends first. You ever don't want to do this, It's okay. If you ever think I'm
being a baby, you tell me. And he's done a lot of work. You know, we didn't have a great year, and it was it was fairly hard on me, but it makes it a lot easier doing it with him and him, you know, just saying kind things and hanging out even sometimes.
Off the golf course, so it goes a really long way.
I tell him all the time, I appreciate it if I am of him, but I hope, I hope he truly does know.
That Dolin your game with Cobra's fastest and most fittable family of drivers using the new future Fit thirty three technology. You know, we say all the time that you know, you see players that get in the hunt. And there are players notoriously back in the day, the old school guys, the Killers, Raymond Floyd, Yeah, Curtis Lannie. There was always this phrase to where they're not scared, right, Yeah, and then obviously we all know who the guys.
Are that aren't.
Scared to with, But in the caddy ranks they talk about that as well. There are caddies that when they get in the hunt. Stevie Williams was famous for that. Bones was famous that there are caddies that you know that when they get.
In the hunt, they're not scared either.
Joe comes across as a guy that is very calm on the golf course. So when when the craziness of competitive tour golf can get crazy, the calmness.
Are there any.
Stories you can tell where you look back and you say, he said the right thing at the right time that kind of clicked me to get me out of something, or to get me to go in a direction that I hadn't thought of.
Yeah, I mean, he's got a million but to stick out. Am I allowed to swear on this of course? Okay, So my first ever professional start was at thefries dot Com now the one up in Napa. Yeah, and so all I needed was the top ten. I had no status. They just say it was my first event. I just finished Walker cup. So I go and I'm nervous in the whole week, the whole little crew is you know it was with was just top ten. We get to
play next week in Vegas. So I ended up getting in the mix the top ten and I'm on eighteen. I need a part top ten and I am shaking, like I am so nervous and it's so silly, but I had never made a dollar before. I'm about to make a lot of dollars and I'm on this eighteenth teen. It's down the hill and there's hazard left and there's nothing good right, and I'm really nervous and I'm you know, I'm not talking very much. And Joe walked over and this is his first time ever caddying for me, and
he walked over. Uh, he said, he said, you're good, and I said, I'm pretty nervous, Joe, and he goes, he goes, he was always a guy. You know, good rhythm, good rhythm, good rhythm, that's all you usually say. And he handed me the three and he goes, hit the fucking shit out of it. And I swear, it's the best that you could have said. I seed as hard as I could. I sent it down the fairway, but my favorite. I think this says the most about why I do think Joe in the mix is just the best.
But at the Ryder Cup a year ago on eighteen,
I got an unfortunate break on my second shot. We needed to get up and down to win our match to not lose the Ryder Cup, and I got this awful lie and I didn't know what to do, and my brain was on kind of maybe swing really hard and send it back up the faaraway and try to pitch up and make a par And he's so calmly and not only had the wherewith all the think of this, but how he said it was, Hey, we're gonna take it unplayable, you're gonna drop right here, you're gonna chip
it up and you're gonna make the putt and we're gonna win the match. And the way he said it, I was like, that's a great plan. And again, just to be able to process that we were going to do that, I think it's harder than people think. And then second to just say it so matter of fact, I.
Was ready for it that moment. Yeah, it's so huge.
I didn't feel like a penalty drop. It just felt like, Okay, if I get up and down from right here, I win my match. And that's what it felt. And it turned it into this like I want. I was very frustrated with where my ball ended up. It felt like it should have been in a lot better spot and I dropped it, chipped it up, made the butt and it was just it was cool.
So he does stuff like.
That a lot.
You mentioned the Ryder Cup. Every time the Ryder Cup happens, both on the euro side but on the American side, there will be someone that you know doesn't have a history that balls out.
You did that.
What was it about that week? Because you you said earlier the most pressure you've ever felt is that And the stands are getting bigger and bigger. I was there the crowds on you know, the on the first hole.
You know the.
Amount of people around that first hole in Rome, that atmosphere was electric. Does that make you when it's like that?
And I think the Ryder Cup I remember in Paris was the first time they built that big giant stand and we were all standing there beforehand and Michael Jordan and his crew, Jay and the boys all came down and they were talking everybody and you know, high vivan and the noise they were singing, And I'll remember Michael said, so the first time I've been in a golf tournament where I feel like I'm in a sporting so that atmosphere on the first hole at at the Ryder Cup,
it feels like not a golf of that, it feels like something different.
Are you conscious of that?
And does that heighten kind of everything to make you kind of go okay?
Not only am I wearing the American.
Flag on my chest and I've got a team, and I've got all these people, all the guys that didn't play there watching, does it make it just yeah, I'm gonna do it. And then if you get off to a good store, did you just ride a wave of good momentum and just was it just did it snowball or were you conscious of it all?
No, at for sure snowballed. I mean I got out there, I was first very fortunate. I had great partners. I got to play with Windham and Brian and they both played great. We just had like fun and I just felt like I really enjoyed the environment and I really really do like playing away. I like making it's fun. I remember I got in the bus on Sunday. We obviously lost, But I got in the bus on Sunday, and I know I'm older now, I'm thirty three, about
to be thirty four. And I told, I told, but nowadays that's you know, it's hard to keep making teams, you know, And I told my I looked at my wife when I got on the bus. I said, I have to somehow keep my workload up and stay feeling okay, because I said, I want to do this again away in four years. Like I'm super stoked have an opportunity at beth Page next year, and that will be, you know, a cool thing if I get to do it. But
the away ones are something else. Obviously they've been very difficult in Ryder Cups, but getting getting the crowd to shut up is a very good feeling. And that getting those moments was cool. But it did snowball, and I was lucky. The captain's made me feel good about myself by giving me five chances. I got to play all five matches. We weren't supposed to do that, but you know, they saw I was playing well, and it did snowball. Just as the days went on, I felt more and
more comfortable. My game felt better and better, and again it kind of goes to the to the masters. This year was when I did get in those moments and the club was in my hand, I felt I felt like me, and I think that was that was the most important part.
One of my favorite things about the Ryder Cups that I've been lucky enough to be a part of are those late matches where both of the teams, Yeah, you've got all. You've got the Americans and the carts and the teams going down one side, You've got the Euros and there's always those matches, and you know, when you are away you do feel like that kind of siege mentality, and you make one and you turn back and all the teams are down.
You know, normally it's like those iconic months. The sun's going.
Down, it's getting colder, and you do something and the only roars aren't the big or because in Europe, I mean, they're wow there.
And when you know, when Rory and Shane and those.
Boys get going, I mean, it gets really really loud. But if you have an opportunity to make one on them, it just must feel so amazing to do that, and then to look back at the team and everybody's going crazy. I mean, that just must be an amazing experience.
Yeah, there was nothing more fun. I know I got a bit contentious. But Saturday night at that last Ryder Cup, Pat Birdie's the last, we win the match one out there is a bit.
Of it felt home. It really feels it felt like they're some hope.
He gave us so much hope and we're all waving the hats and it's just us and I mean, yeah, it got quiet out there, but we were screaming so loud you want to notice. And the camaraderie and and everybody getting I think, to band together.
It's so rare in our sport.
But everyone getting a band together and and and rally around each other and go crazy. I mean, there's truly nothing like it.
I'm gonna ask this question not to put you on the spot, but it's a question that I don't get to ask because my dad always told me the number one thing you need to know when you work for a tour player is the only certainty is you will get fired. You've made the decision to let Mark Blackburn go.
And the reason why I ask, I.
Know that's not an easy decision as a plan and as an instructor, I don't get to when I when I get let go by players, I never really get to ask them why. They'll tell you, hey, man, you know it's just you know, it's tough. But that decision and that process. Obviously, you and Mark had a really good run. I know you care about him as a person as well. I was just with them at the TPI conference a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about it, and you know, we spend more time
with you guys and we spend with our families. Right, I've met more time around tour players than I've spent around my wife and my daughter. So that environment is I don't think people realize how intense that environment is. And I think the work that you guys put in was very intense. I mean I watched you guys grind and stuff the decision to do that. I know the type of person you are, I know how much you care about your team and the people on your team.
That's not an easy decision to make. So when you do make that decision, or did make that decision, it was born out of what and in an effort to do what.
Yeah, a multitude of things. It's hard to do, I think because you are so appreciative where someone has taken you. I mean, he took me from a good player to a very good player. We want a bunch, had a lot of really high moments, and I really do care for him and think the world of him. Coach Younger in My Life, Les Johnson says something interesting. He's like, I can say the most perfect thing, but if you don't hear how I'm saying it, it is, it doesn't work.
And I I think basically we just had about an eleven month run of the same issue over and over again, and it felt like we were both kind of just throwing mud at the wall, and I felt like I wasn't helping and that I'd get an idea and that might step on his toes at times. So I don't think I was like I was kind of stunting the process. And I do believe if we were together forever we would figure it out, I mean eventually, but it felt like I just wasn't hearing it anymore.
And I always say that, you know, when I got let by let go by Brooks and somebody said, you know why, and I said, our job, I think his instructors is we kind of have a.
Clear idea of what, yeah, makes you good.
And I always say this, we always get fired as instructors for the same reason we get hired. We come in and we tell you something someone hasn't or maybe we we have. We come up with a concept or a theory, and you think, Okay, I haven't heard that before. In our head, we're just going to keep telling you the same thing because it works. But eventually it's always.
The same thing.
You just get I think you as guys as players, which I understand it's tough for us on our side of the aisle versus you guys, but sometimes you're just like, yeah, I just don't I don't want to hear that anymore.
Yeah.
And that's always frustrating from our side, from the coaching side, because we're like, yeah, but we know that's what made you a good player. Yeah, and I know that those decisions aren't taken lightly. Where do you want to try and go with your golf swing now? Because I liked the work that you guys did. I mean, I think you're one of the golf swings that when people ask me whose golf swings.
I like you are always one of the three or four.
Guys that I will say, because you know, when I think about golf swings, I look at style and function, and I think you have a really good combo of both, and you're someone if I'm waiting on the driving range, you're a guy that I will sit back and watch you hit golf balls because I like the movement and the way it looks. So in an effort now to try and go in a different direction, and an effort now to try.
And get better. It took me a long time to realize that.
You know, you do get hurt when you get let go, But my dad said, listen, they're just trying to get better. Yeah, and maybe they have to go in that direction. So yeah, the direction that you've been in with your golf swing and the direction that you're looking to go in now, is it a big change?
Yeah, I mean everything you know, when you've been doing something a while, it's a big change. But I think, first and foremost, I want to take more ownership of what I do in my swing because I think what you just spoke on is interesting and very very accurate. You guys have amazing eyes and you see the big picture.
But again they're hitting the shots and we can't get.
And I get zoned in on a one thing, and so like there's a video I have from back in like January. I found that basically was the same problem I've had since whenever I've heard things, I've had, you know, times where I would go to work on something. Now in the last month, I'm like, oh, you know, that's kind of what Mark was getting at, but like I just didn't see it, and.
So I kind of have the big picture. I can see it now.
For me, it's just I've had that and I've had the same kind of running issue for my whole life. I would say everyone has their little idiosyncracies. But I struggle with some weight shift stuff and I tilt and my club gets stuck as it gets longer. So this year I still wedged it really really well. I think I was still like top tenish and like inside one hundred and twenty five yards, but as the club got longer,
club gets more and more stuck. So getting to see and finally understand I guess now why that was happening. And again, like gu's what's so funny is like Joe and I were talking about it a month or so later, and I'm like, as we're talking about I'm like, oh, that's exactly what Mark was saying. I just didn't Again, that's what's so hard is I didn't hear it the
right way. And so yeah, it's just a lot of like I just need to get off the ball a little bit better so I have somewhere to more for my chest to go and so I don't have to hang back and kind of flip it. So I've never been a world class driver of the ball, but when I have been playing well in you know, twenty two and twenty three, I've driven the ball well enough and then relied on my iron. So just kind of getting back to having a bit more of a consistent delivery with the driver.
But the other part of this.
Is I'm not trying to be as good as I was in twenty two and three, Like I'm trying to be significantly better than that. So it's taking all of that that I've learned in that time and using it to get better than I was. But in the in the process, you're just kind of you just always e
been and flowing man. You're just it's not like you know, I'm not just trying to get back like I don't think about it like, oh, I'm just trying to get better than I was today tomorrow and then just add that on up for hopefully the you know, next twenty or so years.
You like the way your golf swing looks at some days because I asked that because I worked.
I worked with Trevor and Woman and you know, kind of and I hated it.
Trevor hated his golf swing, and Adam Scott and Tiger used to go, man the way Scotty sween is. And then in four, you know, I've got some video in four when Trevor was they were defending champions. Uh he and Rory Sabatine and they're defending champions the World Cup. We're in Seville and Trevor was hitting golf balls and he was just and I quit that week because I said.
I just can't take it anymore. And he was like, my golf swing's terrible.
And like four or five years ago when when I was still working with Trevor before you started working with Como, He's like, hey, man, you got any old swings you know, back in the day, And I sent him the swing the day I quit, he was like, I give anything swing it like that. I'm like, bro, you fired. I quit that day because you said it was awful. So what do you like about your golf swing and what do you not like about your golf look wise?
Yeah, it's funny you say that.
The the best I've ever hit in a golf turn is at Tory Pines. Uh, when I won and I was doing something in the golf so and I didn't like my arms kind of shifted out and I didn't like that. And uh about two months ago, three months ago, whenever I kind of left Mark, I went back and just like compile on my best you know, hitting performances
from YouTube, and I'm looking at this swing. The best shot I ever here was this four iron on sixteen there and uh on, I guess it was Saturday in final round and I'm looking at this and I just like, I'd give anything to have that back. And then I'm thinking to myself, I hated that my arms move, So I actually do like that. What I like about my golf swing the most. My rhythm's very good. I think sometimes actually when I hate my swing and I feel
like I'm nitpicking it. I'll put my phone and watch it from like this far away, because you kind of see more big picture less little things when you when you when.
You're up close everything.
When you zoom in and you slow mo, you see every little thing you do, uh, and it drives you nuts.
You know.
Rory and I have talked about this. He's like, I love that you do this in your swing, and he goes, I hate how I do a lot of things. But he made the point. He goes, I think you probably like some things I do in my swing. Like I like most of what you do in your swing man like, but we're all psycho so uh yeah. What I don't like in my swing again is just like I slide a lot, I tilt a lot.
Uh.
Club just has to like have a lot of play at the bottom. It's why, Uh it just is gets some more inconsistent down there. But I do think that I have my we always said it. Rhythm is is the glue to a lot of golf swings. There's there's a lot of swings that have you know, Louis uses and has the probably the prettiest golf swing of all time. But if you slow it down, there's some things I would change. It's a little bit on the edge. Yeah yeah,
five years yeah, another beautiful hell yeah. But watching it in real time is gorgeous, and that holds a lot of maybe not perfect things together. But there's I mean, there's probably one perfect golf swing of all time at Tiger in two thousand. I mean that's the closest thing you get to a robot. But everybody else has something going on that if if it was my swing, I could maybe get in there and say, oh, this isn't exactly.
What I would do. Uh.
So it's like it's just an impossible game. So I I'm trying again in this new like what I'm gonna call my next phase of golf life, I would I'm gonna be a lot less picky and look at the things I do. Like I like when I cover the golf ball. I like when it looks like I'm turning through the shot.
Uh.
And I like when my rhythm is nice and clean. So I'm gonna I'm gonna focus more on that and not like that my thumb is forty degrees instead of forty three degrees. You know, I'm not going to freak out of all the little things.
So what's a win for you in twenty twenty five, with not only the season, but with where you're trying to go with your golf swing.
Yeah, more in the hunt in the majors. Yeah, I I for your goals. I've never really looked at it exactly like that. I mean, I would just like to get the control back of the ball. I've seen a lot of good improvements President's Cup and.
Zozo I drove the ball a lot better.
I think when I drive the ball, well, I've just always figured out the irons. Even when it doesn't feel good, I'll figure them out. So yeah, I mean I love, always love getting to the Tour Championship. I think that's a that that means you've had an elite season.
Adam Scott used to tell me that in his mind, getting to the Tour Championship was a prerequisite.
Yeah, if you want to be thought of as one of the best players.
Sitting home after the BMW and not making it just you just don't feel like you're a part of much anything elite. So that's a tough one.
God, time you get to Eastlake, you kind of separate yourself from everybody else.
The bigger sample size you've proven yourself for a year, I don't care how you did it. If you make it there, you've had a hell of a season. So doing that is always my goal. Getting in the high majors, of course, is a goal, but those things can be fickle, so I don't like to just have a hard stop on that. But of course, I mean be lying if I was sitting here and I didn't say I want
to win a major, and I may. I want to win every golf tourn I play, so but I know that if I keep just checking off the boxes and getting back to having some control of the golf ball with the longer stuff, everything else is good. I was really pleased with this season. I got it really good at a lot of things I had not been good
at because I was forced to. And I'm really looking forward to now that I'm hitting the ball a lot better kind of taking those things I have gotten better at and then using the stuff that I've always been pretty good at then combining them into hopefully a lot more success.
I mentioned that I love looking at your golf swing, but one of the things I love about your game is you win golf tournaments on big time tory riv Quail Hollow, What about really difficult hard golf course because there are guys that can win on golf courses like that, and then there are guys that feel much more comfortable Scottsdale. Yeah, thirty under those type of golf tournaments eight to six to.
Maybe eleven are gonna win.
You're not gonna go to RIV and shoot twenty five under. You're not gonna go to Tory and shoot you know you four rounds in the sixties.
If you do, you're gonna win by a million.
Yeah, waku did it at RIV when you're in one by about twelve.
Quail Hollow, you won there twice.
But those type of championship, big boy golf course. What do you like about that challenge?
I do believe I have when my mine's in the right spot, I've got a lot of grit. I can, I can? I can? I can? You know, do eighteen rounds with a golf course when it's when it's hard. I like, especially when you do get in the mix, you know things are gonna go poorly at times. The golf course is gonna come up and bite you. So I do like that challenge. I like knowing that some people are going to get frustrated with it, so I get in my little bubble.
But I think it really does.
Stem stem down to I. I have typically had a pretty well rounded game. I don't think I stand out in one area over the course of a season too often. But in general, I think that you know, I chipped the ball well, I typically put it pretty well, iron it well. You know I'm driving in the fairway. Like I just feel like I can almost like lull hard golf courses to sleep at times because of just having kind of like an even like an even circle around
the grid. But yeah, I don't know. I also just think I do think that part of it is just having what's inside you. And I've had an interesting career. My my path has absolutely not been linear, and I think maybe I just have some some some moxie or something. At least I'm going to keep telling myself that.
You've made the decision to move to Cobra Golf, welcome to the fans.
Thank you, Yeah, thank you.
That process changing equipment, I mean, I think there's three things in in in your professional on the golf course game that are going to be big game changers when you make decision to change caddies. You make the decision to change coaches and then the decision to change equipment. Why Cobra, what do you like about it? How's the testing process been getting in all their new equipment.
Yeah, it was. I never thought i'd leave. I never thought i'd switch, But I know we did have a tough year. And Joe says something interesting. He said, hey, if we could learn one thing at the end of this year, because it was you know, we knew it was our contract year. He's like, we know, you know, the golf clubs don't always make the ball go straight like you make the ball go straight. So at least we learned that. So he said, you might as well at least go look and just see if there's something
else you like. And I was never going to chase a dollar. I was never going to change something to give up even a half a tick of a stroke, because the thing that makes me the happiest is playing great golf. So but once I have my mindset on, like, hey, at least we'll go shop around and see what everybody's got. I haven't hit a different golf club in twenty years maybe, so it's like I was like, Okay, I'll go see at least like that basically got my foot in the
door to think about, dream about going somewhere else. I will say three years ago, I always love you know, I love the culture of this company. I've gotten to know some people over the years. Ricky and Gary are good friends of mine, so getting to be around them a lot. I've always liked the look of their clubs, and I have never hit one. So I remember three years ago I told Joe. I was like, man, it'd be kind of cool to do the Cobra thing. At some point. I get to play my golf ball, like
you know, just dream and messing around. So when we did have the opportunity to test these clubs, I was amazed immediately at the irons. I love irons. I love looking at them, I love hitting them. So when I hit their seven, I remember I was like, damn, this is this is really good and it felt really good. Numbers were great, and then we got further up the bag and I was like, man, I really like this four and five iron, Like this fits. And then we
got to obviously the driver, and the driver's awesome. The sound of it is amazing, and then all of a sudden, I was like, man, maybe this.
Like I really could do this.
It looks cool.
It looks cool, like when you set it down.
I always say, you know, the way this new driver looks looks fast.
I love the way you sleek.
It looks it's very cool. So I was like, man, and then you start to think about it and you're like. The other thing Joe said was is you know he plays a lot at home and he buys new golf club every damn week, and he's like, hey, you never changed clubs. You don't get to make it exciting, like it's it's fun to get a new golf club.
It's the testing process been fun.
Yeah, it honestly has. I mean, I I don't know. I'm not a gearhead. I know very little. Joe is much more on the like he knows the spin and all this stuff. And we've used obviously Showman quite a bit to help us, and that Before I actually get past that, I will say that that was a big part of what I was looking for. Is what I learned at Titleists with JJ and Arundill. Two people like that I just think are brilliant. I on the on
this process. I was interviewing like fitters a lot, and I think they play such a massive role in what we do. Again, as someone who doesn't know loads about a golf club and how it works, you can it's just like coaching. If they're not seeing what you're feeling, or they're not able to translate what I I'm saying, it doesn't matter.
They could build a.
Golf club that's a beautiful golf club, but it's wrong for me. And so Ben did such a great job and yeah, I don't know. I again, I'm much more feel So I went to looking at you know, how they felt, what the windows they come out of. Does a shot that feels it's a little pole? Is it a little pole? I love when those matchups. So it has been fun because getting it. I mean even just this week. You know, I've still been testing quite a bit. I've got the irons figured out.
But the driver you're looking at getting in ds adapt which bottle do you like?
So we had I had left Scott still.
I just got these clubs like five I mean, I've been hitting them, but I just got them at my house now for like five days. So I got here and the driver's been fine. The good wins have been phenomenal, but I've been missing the middle a lot so randomly. You know, We've been trying to test as much as we can in the downtime you have in these shoots, and I was over on doing the commercial thing. They had a nine degree head instead of my ten and a half, and I was actually hitting that one better
then I had anticipated. I struggled with low loft and so I asked them today. They built me nine head, but tweaked the loft way up and that thing I've been hitting great. So I have the I have the nine head. I forget what's setting. There's thirty three of them.
Yeah, the future. Yeah, how do you think that?
There's a lot of movement in there. And I think that's really good for you as a player, both at the amateur level but at the elite level, because the amateur the lie the lie change, I think, yeah, that's massive. Yeah, But for you guys at the level that you're at, I think this new hozzle is going to be almost allow the driver to be like a Formula one.
Race for Harris.
Let's just take a little tweak out, yeah, and make small incremental changes because there are so many different options.
Exactly I think that's exactly right because I think like today, when we got the new or different head, the middle started to be hit a lot more often. I got it back up in the face that was a little less low on the face, so the ball was flying great. So I think the benefit is the head. We got the head and the heads figured out, but now you know little things. I was kind of leaning maybe a shade more on the toe today than the heel. So that's where I think all the options come in. That
is such a benefit is I know I have the head. Now, we just have to find the setting that's dead nuts perfect. But if I had to go play with that thing I've got right now tomorrow, I'd be very very comfortable with it. So I think that's the uniqueness and the benefit. If you get a little off, as you know better than anybody, when we're a little bit off, it can
look worse than it really is. But maybe we're just a little more steep than normal, or shafts a little bit lower than normal, or handle so it's like, hey, now we can just tweak it with the driver. We don't need to build a whole new thing and then try eight different times. We can taake the same driver and just make a little little adjustment, and you can
look at the same thing you've been looking at. You know how it works, you know the shaft, you know all those things, and then just go right into golf mode because you know there's a lot of options to make you better really quickly. And I think that's a big thing, because building a new driver and trying to get used to that is tricky. When you could just tweak it with the hozzle, it's a whole different world than thirty three options. If I can figure out in thirty three that's a me problem.
Iron Wise, the new three D printing that Kobe's doing, I think is going to be a game.
Yeah, surely.
I love the way that that limited with the three D. Yeah, I love the way it looks. It's a combo of like a player's looking iron, but it's a little bit more forgiveness. What have you liked about the feel of that?
Yeah, I was surprised.
It is I don't know the exact word to use, but it feels almost like there's a bit more behind it with the metal, So it feels like the good ones are great. They feel like there's like a maybe a shade more hit on them. But what I was fascinated by is I caught one low on the face the first day. I hit him and I looked up and it flew just fine. And I looked over to Joe and Ben and I was like, would that fly?
Because that should not have been a great shot, and they said it flew seven yards shorter than my normal, which is not a big you know, I was hitting like a big for a two and a half grooves low three. If I'm being honest, it was. It was great and again it and that's what it is. I just think that it's not just that necessarily. The sweet spotspaker to me feels like it's just more evenly placed and it's just more solid. There's more behind it, and so a little mishit turns out to be not so bad.
And the good ones feel like extremely good. And I like how they look. I've been lucky. They they they three D printed me some that look exactly how I want them to be. I mean, they're the blades, but they they have the same top line I use. So they basically just built me an iron that I want. With the metal day and everything.
I think that's going to be the game changer.
You know, in five years time, the consumer there could be a world where the consumer says, listen, want my driver to or I want my iron to look like this, and make it look like this.
Order it.
It's like in a car, you know, I want this sense here. Yeah, so I think that it's it's it's going to be absolutely used the perfectly. Game changers is dead on.
Your new dad.
You're showing me some video before we started of your two year old son. What's that pro It has been like I'm on the other end of that spectrum.
My daughter just graduated from college singrat. She's starting out.
But as being a dad changed you at all, and has it been different or the same as you thought.
No, it has changed me. I'm much more patient. But it has been a ten out of ten fun experience. There is some tough times, not gonna lie, but he's in a very fun age. But it's been interesting. I definitely get dad guilt being away from home. It is very very difficult, but I have and thankful for my wife for help me feel this way. But have been very motivated to do this long enough so he can see me, you know, with his own eyes and remember it, and also in that vein, I want him to very
very badly. I want him to see that because his dad did it. If you work your ass off and you just chase something that you really love and you believe in, you can make it happen. So I'm probably more motivated even than before having a kid to show him those things. And it's been it's been very, very fun to watch him grow up and get to continue to take him to the coolest places in the world.
And I mean just this year alone, I mean he was we were running around the Green at Mirfield and Clumber and Dublin and I'm just dying laughing, like you have no idea how lucky you are get out like I he gets to go everywhere and anywhere. But that's what That's the stuff me and his mom are gonna remember forever and we're gonna have to tell him about like cheesy parents in the future.
Your Dodgers won the World Series.
Probably my astros did not play Hell yeah, lifelong Dodger fan.
Just did you party? Do you celebrate?
Kind? Is my son's actually second birthday, So we just unwinded by going straight to bed. It was it was awesome. I you know, got some friends on a team. I love it so much. It was fun. We were watching the first two or three games in Japan, which was tough, nine oh eight start times, am teen off watching on the phone, so it was it was a blast. But it's so funny, you know, it's playing a sport and then being a fan of a sport. I'm so different, you know. I know the boys are trying their hardest.
I know, you know they want it as badly as, you know, as they possibly can, because I do it. And when people are like, oh, I just wish you practice hard's like I practice as hard as I can. I want this as much as anybody could ever imagine. But for the to get to watch them actually do it, for them you could feel like the relief and the excitement. But for us as fans, man, I mean they they they give so much entertainment to us. We're so fortunate to have a team that's good year over year, and yeah,
I mean it was. It was just one of those things of the twenty twenty one. I was going to count until they wanted, you know, one with the fans because it didn't feel like the excitement they didn't get the parade, they didn't get all these things, so this one feels extra special.
Max.
Great to talk to you. It's every time I talk to you. You've been on the pod before, so thanks for coming on. Yeah, it's so easy to see you are such a fan favorite. I think everybody's rooting for you, and I think I think this was this one as tough as I think you think this year was. I think it was a breakout year for you to finally realize that you're you're good enough to win a major. All you have to do is just get in contention. Yeah, right, and I think we are going to see you in
contention more often. So thanks for Thank you.
I appreciate you.
Thank you for having me so really cool talk with Max Homa and listen, it's easy to see why the fans like him, right, He's a lot of fun to talk with. I kind of like his approach. I like kind of how he thinks about his game. And listen, golf is tough. Max is trying to get better, but he's made some decisions that you know, we're gonna see if they pan out. But I really like the fact that he's on the Cobra team now and yeah, let's see what he can do. I think everybody is waiting
to see how Max performs in the majors. It's a Writer Cup year. He was a huge part of the Writer Cup in Rome. Probably one of the best American players. But like I said, I'm a fan and it's fun to watch Max anywhere he plays.
I want to thank everyone for.
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