Joey D & Kolby 'K-Wayne' Tullier

in the business. That's why they work with the best players. UM. The best players in the world entrust them to help them with all of their golf fitness and it's interesting to to talk to both of them to talk about how far golf fitness has come and you know where it is. But I don't think there's anyone inside the top ten, top fifteen, even top twenty five in the world that doesn't have people like them look after their fitness. And UM, you know, I think when you look at

the gains that that players have made. UM, you know, a guy like Matt Fitzpatrick who has really really kind of changed UM, how he trains, UM, how he goes about trying to get distant speed and power. And that's something that I think everybody's trying to do UM day in and day out. You know, when I give golf lessons, people are always saying, listen, you need to get more speed,

need to get more power, and so UM. Having an opportunity to talk to Joey and Colby about UM, what they do, their opinions on on on golf fitness and kind of you know, the direction players should go in and the direction they should try and avoid. So I'm excited for everyone to take a listen, So sit back and enjoy the interview. So boys, uh, hang the banner. The new book is out. UM, talk to me, what was the impetus in doing the book? Why did you

guys want to do books? I mean, everybody you know is doing stuff, but what was the I mean, I know from coming into the academy here in the gym that anytime a player wins the tournament, you guys hang these big banners and UM, talk to me about what was the reason behind and why you guys wanted to

do the book. I think the reason behind hanging the banner was there was an opportunity as the you know, topic of golf fitness has finally evolved, and I think people understand it better than ever than Colby and I felt collaboration between the two of us because we were like minded. I believe in everything he does and I supported and I think he is the very best of what he does. And you know, I believe that people still till this day have had a little bit of

a challenge to understand what does golf fitness mean? You know. Hang the banner was basically a testimony to the players that come through these doors, that work with coach k Wayne and I and our personal methodologies and there um, you know, put up on on how they believe it benefits them. So yeah, hanging banner. Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree more. Um, I probably started a hashtag like

six years ago. So I mean, to me, it was cool because like you see the end of the tournament, right they win, they hold a trophy, and there was there was so much work that's put in, you know, um, and it was just an opportunity to kind of pay homage to them, like to celebrate their victory, their work at all work paid off. It was kind of like the Boston going you're walking in you see all these banners up there. Um, So it was it was an opportunity for us to really like bring it to the forefront.

And then when the book came along, Um, we were just kind of brainstorming and talking about if there's something that we'd want to do, and we were like, man, we should just call it hanging a banner, and we should like really talk about and give our athletes an opportunity to be able to give us some insight, because I mean, that's really what the book means the most to me about is that every lead we asked to take part in it, Um, they didn't even hesitate, you know,

and and and through the years of being here, and which isn't always easy to do because you have I mean, I think a lot of times we're on the other side of this. We're not players we work for We work for athletes, we work for golfers. Um. There's always that fine line of you know we do I mean,

we give our lives to these guys, right. We we spend more time with these players, you know, traveling all over the world, and sometimes we spend with our own families but it's always that thing that whenever you want to ask them to do something, does the agent want to get involved? Wa Wi? I mean you know this. So the fact that everybody bought in I think it is as estimate to the way they feel about the book,

you guys. Yeah, I mean, And and it was great because like, I don't think I would have wanted to write the book. I don't think we want to do it if we didn't have an opportunity to put them in it, you know, because it was just it's a testament to the hard work that we've put in from from day in and day out and over the years and twenty plus years that we've been trying to do

it and perfect our craft. Um. It was just an opportunity to kind of include everybody in the journey and just kind of give the viewers or the reader, uh an opportunity to see the work that's put in the transference from the exercise selection on how it creates the program and how we create specific programs for Pacific specific athletes and how their body moves and how we can create uh some synergistic mythology of training to have transference

into their sport. Um everybody. I mean, obviously you guys worked with some of the best golfers in the world. But I want to go back to the beginning. How did how did you guys get into fitness, because I mean, whenever I talk to instructors, I'm always interested about their road kind of too golf instruction. Why did they get into it with a players and stuff like that. Joey, we'll we'll start with you. I mean, how did you become interested in fitness? I mean, was it always something

that was a part of your life? It was ingrained in me. You know, my dad was an instructor on the weekends back in the day at the police Academy after we get out of the military, and he was a very well accomplished you know, uh in martial arts and disciplines, and he that he was one of the early adapters in the New York City Police Department to start uh the academy for uh the incoming rookies in the NYPD, and that you know, we spent you know, at least one week in a month in New York

City growing up in that environment. So it was instilled early on. And then my dad played golf with his buddies that they had a Saturday game, and you know, that was always cool to be a part of the golf. And I think I've always, you know, been intrigued by why golf wasn't something that we saw. And you saw this growing up, probably more than any of us in this room right now. I mean, you're your heritage is

the most famous and and it's the most interesting. And uh, you know, you could say to validate what Colby and I say that it was a tough journey to get these golfers to adapt. I mean you look back a decade plus ago, two decades that we weren't even allowed. Like your dad would remember once looked at me like, what are you doing? You don't blow out here, like I don't like different like you don't know what you're doing.

And that was that was cool because I think inherently, back in the day, you're in the fifties, sixties and seventies, golf and getting big and getting any sort of muscle was bad for you because that wasn't kind of part of what players did. They didn't understand it. Yeah, it was taboo back then. I mean if you touched the weight, they would ruin your golf swing. Basically you come colbe not from necessarily the golf background, but more from a

team sport background. Yeah, team sport background, and also fitness was was born into me, you know, like I was. I was challenged at an early age, born with uh substantial birth effect to learn how to walk five times in my life, you know, like did the whole bars as far as gum braces, did the whole thing, and I had a seven percent chance I'd never walked, I'd

be in a wheelchair. So that I fell in love with how the human body moved at a very very young age because it was part of my life for me to be able to function as a human, I had to really established and have to create kind of like perfect habits for me to be able to just live a life worth living almost um. But then from there I just kind of grew into me UM and then I got involved in more team athletic sports and stuff like that. I was always you know with my predisposition.

I was always in the gym. I was always trying to get better. I was working on things that would be after surgery if I was trying to accomplish specific goals.

So it was just kind of ingraining to me. So, and when I got into the fitness world as a profession, you know it, it was easy for me to kind of cross over into try to make people better because you know, when you live in a in a position where you're trying to get one or two better each day and in dealing with some pain and stuff like, it's easy to kind of tap into it an athletics or the athletes brain to push them to be something better than what they were yesterday. So let's take a

quick break to think our partner for wellness. You guys have heard me talk about it. I'm a big fan of their coffee, big fan of the good stuff. I put it in my coffee on a regular basis. The thing I like about it, no sugars, no artificial sweeteners. It's gotten me off dairy. Um, I've quit putting sweeteners, sugars in just the good stuff put I also put the good stuff, put a scoop of that in my coffee, but I also put it in smoothies and take it on the road with me. And the other thing that

I've been using are their energy bites. Um, I keep them with me on the golf course. UM. A lot of times when I'm out on tour, I don't have a lot of time to sit and eat. So these energy bites, a little coffee hit, a little bit of energy, UM, all the good stuff, all natural and UM. If you haven't given those to try, check those out. They've given me a special code to share with some of a

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the interview. Do you think in two there is more of a from a golf standpoint, that the golfers are starting to be kind of more like tennis players have been for a long time with teams of people around them, because it is an individual sport, right, And I think one of the earlier adopters to the team concept was

professional tennis. Professional tennis had they had coaches, they had hitting partners, they had to have people looking after their bodies, they had to have strength and conditioning stuff like that. So obviously, basketball, football, baseball, hockey, old of the big you know, team sports that we have here in the US all have straight and conditioning people. They all have recovery people and stuff like that. But I think now more than ever, I mean, if you look at the

two guys that you both work with. From you you're working with Justin Thomas Colby, and and and Joey you're working with DJ, I mean they both have they both have big teams of people around them. And um, you know, one of the things that we've talked about in the past, Um, the guys that you know, Greg Rose and Dave Phillips at at the Titles performances at t p I, they were kind of the first real people that made having a team become part of the lexicon of what golfers

and and and people in the Gulf Spate did. Obviously, you two guys have always known that you needed a team of people around you. But I think now, um, you have to have strength and conditioning. You have to have recovery, you have to have nutrition, you have to have all of it. Um, why do you think golf took so long to get to the place that it

is now. Fear? They were afraid. They were fearful, and they didn't know enough about you know, the importance of how the moving body, human body moves and transference of you know, certain modalities and the things that you know

challenge them on a daily basis. Think about Think about you as an instructor and you watching it over decades from your grandfather and your dad to you now being one of the you know, greatest instructors, and you working with some of the greatest players you know, and you support what Colby and I do because we are all three have been on the same team for a while. So when you look at what it really takes for these guys to, you know, get to the point where

you get them on the range. Our job is to get their bodies prepared to say these are the things like, hey, let's say DJ or j T wasn't they weren't loading in there, and and and you know, their their right side and and they couldn't feel where their heel was versus their toe, or their their hip wasn't moving properly, they couldn't clear their hips, and you know, all these things start to happen and create you know, these adverse effects and you have to manage yourself as a as

an instructor. But we have the opportunity to work with you and these players to take the fear away and say you gotta trust it because it can be uncomfortable. You know, it can make them, you know, because feel is a big part of what professional golfers rely on.

Would you agree with that? Yeah? I mean, I think just the dynamic of the sport in general has changed so much over the years to like becoming more like a power and a speed sport almost right, it's explosive, it's dynamic, it's all these different things where you see a lot of that in your other sports like football and baseball. And I think it was more like we said earlier, it was more like taboo, like you didn't you didn't need to do all that. You just need to go out there and get it out of the

dirt and do all this stuff like that. But what happens is like what we're doing now, I think it's you know, it's an individual sport. They're realizing that their bodies are their vehicle. Like the club doesn't moved to you pick it up. So if you don't think it has to do with how your body function, how moves and specific planes dynamically, I mean factually, like we can have that conversation forever. You know what I mean. So for me, Um, it's just understanding where what we're trying

to do. Like if I have an athlete or that I'm working with you with an athlete and you say, hey, he can't do X, Y and Z, if I can address that in a gym, then I can bring him back to you. Then now you can do what would you do so good? Yeah, I mean I think from an instruction standpoint. Um, you know I never really thought about you know, growing up when I was was giving lessons, Um, I never really thought about how the body worked and

how the body moved. And you know, like I said, I think now through a lot of the stuff that you guys are doing and and golf fitness is now part of it. When I look at a player now and say listen, the player isn't able to do this, He can't do that in the past. I just think of it in terms of where my golf brain would be, right, well, let's just do this now. I immediately start to think, Okay, why can't he load into his right side correct? Why can't he do this? Why does his body um do that?

What influence? I mean, Tiger had such a huge influence on the game of golf. But I think from a fitness standpoint. You know, I was around Tiger from when he was sixteen years old. He had speed. He didn't know why he had speed, he just had natural speed. I remember my dad. The first lesson my dad gave two Tiger Woods was in August. At that time when my dad was working with Greg Norman. Gregg had just won the Open Championship, gone back to number one in

the world. Greg hit the golf ball further than anybody back then, and then we see the sixteen year old kid who his the way he's you know, Greg, if you remember, had a lot of lateral motion to it, and I think a lot of the old school golfers they did have a lot of that lateral move It was more kind of load. It wasn't a lot of rotation. Um. The impetus back in the day was all on accuracy, right, it was how many fairways can you hit? How many greens you can hit. I mean you look at a

guy like Nick Faldo, who Nick Faldo is bigger than DJ. Right, he's a big guy. Faldo in the day hit it nowhere because the game wasn't about that, right, The game was about accuracy. So Tiger comes on the scene, his body worked. I remember just watching my dad thinking, you know, he's he's working with Greg Norman at that time, Tiger

sixteen years old. It was like looking at something that was a completely different, like a completely different shade of a color, like I've never even seen that, that color of red, I've never seen it. And the way his body moved um and then all of the things that he did physically right, it was like a light was shining on him when he was hitting balls that wasn't

on anyone else. Then he transformed his body. I remember my dad was trying to get him to hit the little knockdown with a nine iron and they were getting ready to go to the British Open, and he's just listen, you gotta bring your ball flight down. You gotta bring your ball flight down. This is like, and Tiger said, could I do that with a driver? And my dad said, I mean, I just don't think you could do it

with a driver. And then like five minutes later they're hitting balls and my dad said, you know what, you could do it with a driver. You just have to completely change your body to be able to control you trying to shut the follow through off. And he's like, you're not strong enough to do that. And that was really right around the time that Tiger's bodies changed. How how much do you think the modern day golfer from the fitness standpoint? Ohs to Tiger for coming in and

making golf seem like a sport. He's the most validatable athlete I've ever seen in a most complicated sport I've ever been around. So if Tiger says it, he did it,

there's no questions asked. They can question him, but you can't like say to yourself that he didn't accomplish all the things that you were just referencing with your dad, Like if you challenged him, and I still think till this day, like Golby Wayne can say it better than anybody, Like you challenge him and he'll do it like he will always always get it when you agree, like you always talk about it. He is still till this day.

He is the He is the he. He is the one who you have to look at because he continuously redefines the laws of gravity, physics, aging, everything. Wouldn't you not agree with it? Yeah? I mean we're just going back to all this stuff. I mean he was a unicorn, right, I mean he still is. I mean it's like he the work ethic, the training everything, like all those things today and to speed because like you're gonna have twitchy guys, right,

You're gonna have all those things. But then it goes into from a training concept, but we have to do and we have to deal with is Okay, we have someone doing that. What that body is only gonna have so many swings. So now when you look at it from a training and a modality standpoint, Okay, how can we build enough stability to handle that speed over and over and over again? And that's where we become. That's where we come in and try create that that system

to allow you to be able to do it. That's why you see all the soft tissue injuries and stuff in sports, and its golf is no, no, exception, like you've got so much speed that you're trying to do and if that hips not stable, then you're gonna have something going on with the labor, right or if you got the shoulders are gonna do if you're throwing it

from top. That's why I got golfer's elbow and tennis elbow, like all those violent moves over and over and over again, because it is a constant golf is you're in one place, correct, You're doing a repetitive motion over and over and over and over. Whereas other sports, you know, basketball pictures probably have the same type thing, but in contact sports, yes, they're doing the same thing over, but the game is

constantly changing. Yeah, And what happens is is if you so the only thing that protects a joint is muscle and strung inst ability. So you can be really worry, but how long is the body going to hold up? You know? If you take perfect examples. Where I met Justin Thomas was a hundred forty two pounts. He walks around at one seventy eight. Now, because when I met him, he had speed, he was he had all the check

he checked all the boxes. But in my mind, I'm like, Okay, how can we create a path for longevity of success. And that's training, that's building more muscle around the joints, doing those things. The other thing I think in the athletic world that you guys live in the non golf world, the the athletic world, whether whatever disciplined it is, everybody's jacked, right.

All the athletes are like, you know, you walk into a locker room in the NFL, the wide receivers look the way they look, the running backs looked the way they looked, the lineman, everybody, and then you get freakish athletes megatron. I remember going to Atlanta. I was down on the field with my dad and Arthur Blank, the owner of the Falcons, and um Julio Jones walked past me on the field in paths and I was like, he looked completely different than all the other wide receivers. Right.

You see some running backs that are just very different. I think Tiger was the first person from a golf standpoint to where the workout and the physical transformation of his body also had such a mental effect on everybody else. Because you've got all these people in the early two thousand's where not a lot of people are working out, not a lot of people are putting in the time and everything, and all of a sudden, Tiger shows up in two thousand. He's totally jacked. He's I mean physically,

you can see that he's stronger than everybody else. That mental that was another thing that him bringing fitness to golf did to where all of a sudden people were just like, because I physically can't compete with that, and they thought so. I remember Chris de Marco walking on the range once and and you know that that that was a famous masters, right, and I was going with Chris back then, and he actually said things like everybody's competing from second to whatever place you're going to finish.

Because he was unbeautiabule in their minds, they feared him, and I think his physicality was something that they still couldn't get their heads around. Right, that was a natural gift. But as Colby will say till this day, he will outwork anybody and I and I agree with him. I agree with that, Like you know, you have to be able to to persevere. Uh, Like Colby said, you only have so many swings before the body naturally breaks down.

You have to be able to you know, I don't I don't like to use the word prehability, but you've got to prepare the body for the natural breakdown of how many hundreds of thousands to a million plus swings you're gonna make and then it breaks. You gotta prepare to body for the demand that you're gonna place on it. And to me, that all happens in the gym. I mean you have to train. You have to train it like and that's what I try to tell these leads.

I do too, Like if I'm trying an athlete, I'm trying to bring you to the deepest part of the ocean and you've got to find your way out of it, like, and that's how we train, and we train that way. Then if you get in a high pressure situation, is high pressure back nine with a two shot lead, and your heart rate wants to spike up on you. We've been there before, so from a central nervous system and us in a neuromuscular system, you've been there and you've

adapted to that stress. So that stress you're gonna fell on Sunday at that heart rate wants to spike up and instead of bugging out like You're gonna flatline, You're gonna be perfect because your body can handle the stress. The stress is that has being placed on you from that type of demand, Like your body can handle it

and process it fast. Joe, you I mean you work with Dustin Johnson, who is a freak athlete, right, he can DJ can do anything anything anything, So training that whole physicality, all of suff that comes, that's that's kind of part of his DNA COB A kid like j T. You know, justin Thomas he said he's put on thirty pounds of muscle. Now, you coming from your your work with the LSU football program, you know that a Division one lineman in the NFL first round draft pick, how

much they're gonna put to play in the NFL. He needs to gain probably twenty to thirty pounds to be able to compete with the people that he's going at. You mentioned that JT has put on thirty pounds. I don't think the average person watching them on TV realizes that golfers now that are of that frame. You know, DJ is blessed with genetics, right but he but still even he if you look at him when he first came on tour to look at him at his you know it, where he is at a prime or he

is a muscular like athletic specimen. And I think that. But the genetics for DJ health four did help long levers, long arms, long have hyper mobile JT doesn't have them. So that's why the gym is so important for someone. You take someone who has someone like JTS. He's not six whatever. DJ is, so like he's got to get every he's got to optimize everything in his body to go out there and compete against those guys. Because from like you said, from a genetic standpoint, he's not six six,

he doesn't have to leave us in a level. So he's got to find a way to get it from somewhere else, to create more speed, to have that power and stuff like that. So to me, that's just another testament to how much work he puts on the jim.

He takes somebody Lucas Glover that's in his forties and he has his best year and his forties, and he did when he won the US Open, you know, and wherever whenever, he one and the best became number one in the world at So those kind of those kind of modalities where you say Okay, this is where we are now. Now we need to do X, Y and Z for you to be able to continue to compete at this level. So let's take a short break and we will be back right after this. All right, let's

get back to the interview. Sure, we've heard you talk about the four pillars of strength, balance, stability, power, and velocity. Right when we're looking at those for for golfers, um, both competitive golfers and the average golfers. Out of out of those four things, what's for everyone listening that that's trying to get better at golf? Right, what's the low hanging fruit for you from those four pillars? Right? Give me something you feel is like an easy balance, easy stability,

something from a power stuff. Because I think people think, Okay, I want to try and hit it further. Everybody's trying to hit the golf ball further, want to get more distance, want to get more power. The recreational golfers trying to do that. But then the people that you work with at the competitive level, they're trying to make those gains too. Yeah, I think I'd love to borrow you know, my partners.

Uh statement is it's easy to get strong, right, so strength, you know, that's not something that I think is the challenge. I think to understand mobility and stability and and those are the things that you have to be able to first understand. You know, the term, if we're gonna get technical, is anatomical neutral and that's that's the strongest point of

the human body. Right, So when you stand up over the golf ball, if Colby came up and his player was was in the strongest point out address, or you know how driver in his hand almost like a cat that you dig the claws in the carpet, you try to pull the cat out. They feel that power from the ground up, right. But then you know, to create the ability to rotate, because there's a rotational sport, you've got to have mobility, right, So flexibility is one thing,

mobility is another thing. And then ultimately you you were asked this question more than Colby, and I think, coach, how do we get more speed? And I guarantee you c h I've heard it, you know time and time again being with you for years. People the biggest thing they want is more speed. So you have to create the foul foundation or those pillars of strength to be able to ultimately get the body to respond to all those things. So if you're asking me, you know, where

does it start. I saw Kobe working with somebody yesterday who I was enamored with, which is his young rookie. I think he's gonna end up with Rookie of the Year. And I was so impressed because he talked to me afterwards and and he's a baseball player and he said to me, I said, how was it today? And we were in that parking lot and he said, hey, coach, come on over. He was coach k Wayne kicked my ass because I didn't even know things like that could

be that difficult. And I watched one of their training sessions and here's this unbelievable powerhouse and he's doing things that the guy never even realized, which you would think, well, he should be able to do that effortlessly. You remember the workout the other day. So what would you say, like the explanation or the answer with a clause? Thing? Is I like it best through Brendan because I love what you did. Yeah, I mean when you're trying to

because the same things. Just like a golf he's trying to create more. He wants to hit the ball harder, saying with a golfer. So for me, it's okay, we can get stronger to an extent, But now, how does the brain correlate speed? And the only way you can correlate speed with the brain is you gotta train it faster. You gotta train the brain to move fast. You gotta

you gotta teach. If I'm trying to go across the midline, I'm trying to go as fast and ballistic as I can across the midline, over and over and over again, as fast as you can. And the crazy thing is is I'll put him in a position to where all he has to do is take a band that's anchored opposite of him, parallel to him, and he's got to rip it across his midline like he's swinging a golf

club or swinging a baseball bat. And I'm literally counting and telling him to go faster and faster, and he's going slower and slower because his brain has never been trained to correlate speed that way. They look at I get uneath a bunch of weight, if I do a hand cling or a jerk, or do a bench press, they correlate that to speed and that's more of a strength component. And when you get into the neuromuscular side to it, that's the fastest of speeds and velocity where

you've got to create that stability. You gotta build that. It's just like having a V twelve in a car. While like I always say, it's like shooting a cannon out of a canoe. Like that cannon strong as hell, but if you shoot it in a canoe, is gonna flip the canoe over. You've got no balance and stability there.

But when you can apply it, and now you get that brain to start firing, and those axons and neurons and all those things start cross bit bridge into my field and all that Like, those are the things the mina, the mino conjuror to pout of sale. Those things are rapidly engaging, engaging, engaging, and then that's when all the magic starts to happen. I was talking with Dr Greg Rows out of t p I and he said they

had a player, you know, on the tour. They came out and said, listen, I want to try and you know, gain some speed, gain some power and stuff like that. So what are some of the things that I can do to try and do it. And further to what you guys were saying, he was thinking they were gonna tell them all this gym stuff. And Greg said to him, what have you ever thought about swinging the golf club faster? And he was like, yeah, you know, I mean, but what exercises can I do in the gym and all

the stuff? And Greg was like, no, no, no, have you ever thought about just moving the object that you're holding? Moving it faster? Right? Just swing it faster? Right. There's a lot of different ways that you can do that, right. I think everybody thinks that one of the ways that we create speed and power is to do exercises, lift weights and stuff like that. But I think one of the cool things, um, you know, Bryson's Bryson de Shambo's an easy target, right because of kind of the way

he goes about doing things. But I think one of the cool things has been really interesting in his quest for all this speed stuff is when he's at major championships. There's some videos of him on the driving range to Augusta a couple of years ago where he's hitting drivers. He's got the launch monitor. He's basically just swinging as fast as again, and he's not even looking where the golf ball is going. He's just immediately looking back to

the monitor and looking at it from a speed standpoint. Um, is it hard to get golfers to give up that sense of control because I'm in the I'm in the golf world from instruction was you guys are in the fitness world, right? Is it hard to let to get golfers to get into that athlete mentality and just say, listen, we just need you to just kind of almost go at this with a reckless abandon and get to that

point that other athletes live in all the time. Absolutely, I think golf is such a control sport in that controlled environment where everything has to be you know, just you gotta be at of control. You've gotta be at to control of the cluff as you've gotta better control this, this angle. You got to create this, You've got to create that. And it's hard to have that that that mimic, right, that transference, like to be able to say okay, I

really want you or like how you do it. That's like if you were telling me if I'm hitting a shot and you know I should hit it further you're like, well, how far do you think you hit this? And I got hit my nine and forty yards ago. Okay, hit at hundred you know what. I'm like, wait what? And I just kind of like, what do you mean? Like, no, I want you to hit a hundred sixty and because like that's where you kind of create that mind and body connects and where you're trying to get divided and

move faster and then apply it. Because the first thing I do with some of the others don't want to getting speed on like good bounce on one leg. That's what happened on one leg. Then you're never gonna swing

it faster. There are components to what Colby is saying, like you can go ahead and swing it ballistically, but what happens is if you want to get faster, you've got to go back to what Kay when and I say, And people like Dr Greg Rose and everybody who I don't want to just call us three out like people are talented, they've studied, they understand what the human body has to do to get these things happen. And there's there's hundreds of thousands of golf fitness professionals and coaches

like you that understand it more than they ever have. Like, you can't just go swing it as fast as you think you can. You gotta understand. The body has got to be able to control. And like Colby said, you've got to adapt to that speed. You do have to get the brain to say, I gotta let go of the control because to get faster, you gotta move faster.

But there are ways, and that's why we do what we do to say, these are the ways you can move fast, stir and then when you get fast, you've got to be able to control and stay in balance to be able to do it again and again and

again again. You know the crazy thing is now that we're talking about all that was like when I started with Max Homer and he was outside of the top fifteen the wear on ball speed, and we worked together for I think it was a little over three months, and he went inside the top fifteen in the world on ball speed. And he had no idea how he did it because it was just everything that we did in the gym, it just applied to what he needed

to do in the golf course. And all of a sudden when he went to titles, I saw tylers at the Tour Championship. It was like, did he tell you his numbers? I was like, yeah, he told me about it. He's like no, no, no, no, you don't understand. Like he was literally outside the top fifty and now he's like close to the top ten in the War on Ball speed And you asked Max and it was the funniest thing because he's like, I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm just swinging the club and that's what

I tell him. That's that's the best part about the whole thing for us for coaching eyes that when you don't have to think about it, these athletes are literally not thinking about it and it just happens. Because now now we've addressed those imbalances, those weakness, those compensations that was going on in connectic chain. If we can eliminate those things, then that's where we get that one to

two percent better every day. Because when you're dealing with great athletes like a DJ, like these guys are justin Thomas like they're great all right, I mean they're out there, Maxhomas and you know all these different guys in the books and those guys like all we're trying to do is for me is we're trying to get them. We're trying to eliminate the little bit of the weaknesses and

balances to make them a little bit better. A little If we can make them a little bit better, that are the great athletes and that's a game changing for them. Trust is the biggest thing we've all gained, three of us in this room. There's so much more trust right in what how we teach and collectively you said it earlier on in this podcast, we are more of a team than we've ever been. So their support, right, there's the ability for them to trust every part of the

process and it's a process, right. But I believe the evolution of golf fitness right here it is is that we have been able to, you know, work underneath grades like you and your dad and you know, Tony Riggierio and guys that we really believe in. And then you guys have your dad included said what they're saying works. I've seen it with my own eyes. You and I worked other for years and years and years with athletes. At the end of the day, look at look at

the track records. They speak for themselves like goldby saying, you know, this is something that this evolution is not far fetched too, that it will continue as the sports develop, as the human body develops, as as the technology develops. You have to do this to get to the top in any sport, especially golf. Let's take a quick break and we are back. Joey, you're working with DJ Colby

just as an example, your work with Justin Thomas. You've very very different people, right to different body styles, different backgrounds, different athletic you know, backgrounds and stuff. Um, what are the similarities in what you to do with them? And then what are some of the specific things that you do differently with them that you wouldn't necessarily you like, what couldn't you have one of them do that the

other one is doing. I mean, I don't think there's anything like when we look at the sport when we talk about sports specific and that sport is going to

be the same no matter what. So when you you have to find out the modalities and you have to train in that arena, if it's a transverse plane sport, we're gonna address I would address the same I think and coach would agree, like we address mobility and stability the same in Justin and Dj because the human body is still the same, Like they might have to not have the same, right, but movement is movement, like and

the science is always gonna be the science. You've gotta have internal hip mobile, you gotta have external hip mobility,

you've gotta have a specific number that you're at. You get someone like DJ who's really hyper mobile, freakishly mobile, right So, like so everything that coaches doing where it might be, we're always trying to bring guys to the middle, to the stability part because hyper mobility wherever I take someone like Justin Thomas who lives on his toes, so he's got tighter calves, right because that move that he does, so it affects his ankle mobility, where DJ has more

like a much mobility, right So so, but so we might have them both doing things on a boat, super ball or ericx pad, and it's addressing those same things because we're still trying to bring them to that stability part to where the body. We're trying to optimize each

one of them's body to perform at that level. So to me, like like they would both load the same if I'm actual loading DJ, I would actual load just in the same way, like the demand might be different, like of course DJ would probably lift more weight, you know, but from from a training standpoint like mobilities, mobilities, stabilities, stability, like we would just be and it would be up to the individual, Like if I'm screening DJ, what does

he have less of more of? And then we would address that screen justin what does he have less of more of? And how do we address that. One of the things I did today on this topic, which is funny because I started to pay a lot more attention about wanting to provide information from you know, Coach k Wayne standpoint, my standpoint, and giving people opportunity to learn. We talked about don't guess right, assess, So we don't want people guessing. We want people to give themselves the

ability to have an assessment properly. And it's sort of like what you do with the players. You you put them on whatever measurable device you use at your academy h and and then you see them many times when they're at the very best, like you might want them to come and have a session with you when they just want a tournament, and then you video and you you you collect at it with numbers and then you sometimes I've watched you do when they're not playing well.

And the beautiful thing about that is that's assessing. That's that's giving an ability for people to create a metric to measure and quantify what were you doing so well? How many times have you and I personally looked at video a DJ and Colby has done the same thing of JT and Tiger and everybody we work with and say, these are the things you did really well, what happened. Let's assess, Let's not guess. It's not a guessing game

at this level of golf. And even when you teach, you know, and I don't you probably you know you're so busy and you have so much going on in the world. You know, you teach people of much lesser talent. You still teach fundamentally the same way. Claude harm and the third teachers. I've watched you, Colby, Kobe does it same. I do it the same. I think these athletes all have common thread because golf basically you've got to do the same things. The bodies might be different, but the

requirements are very much the same. How many times have I heard you say this, like Kenny Perry doesn't get the the you know, he doesn't swing like Dustin Johnson, who doesn't swing like JT. But at impact, they're all pretty darn close to doing the same thing. Yeah, it just depends on the limitations that their body has. Like so we're all trying to create that synergistic thing. That's what's awesome about working with guys like you because you can watch a swing and no, boom, I need him

to do this. He's not doing this his role. It's not externally rotating his lead arms, doing this, doing this, doing that. He can't do this. And then for me, we can walk come into the gym and we can address all those things that you've seen, and that the blink of an eye that you can address there. And I think that's the most important thing to be able to work with guys like you, that that allows us to be on that journey with that athlete, because I mean,

that's the ultimate team thing. How MUCHO guys is new and how much is oh? Because you know, my dad always says in seminars, because that I've invented nothing in

the golf swing. Right, everything I've learned I kind of borrowed stuff from other people and I borrowed ideas from all of that, and I think there is there's always there's always these eyes in golf instruction that I like to say, they've got this new method, right, I've got the new things and and and toss and and and the guys that always have the new the new ship and the secret stuff. They never want to tell me.

It's always you know, it's always the secret. Oh no, I can't, no, no, I can't tell you all this stuff. And I'm wondering, is the fitness world the same? Do you think there's new stuff coming out? Or do you think you guys are just applying stuff that has been around and maybe enough, playing it in a different way of saying it in a different way. I tell people it's the same book that anatomy and physiology book that I read when I was in college, was the same

book that coach read like an extra bones. There's no the body. Yeah, there's no new bones. There's nobody. It's the exact same thing. You you. The human body is the most divine machine ever invented, and it's not broken like we create and balances of weaknesses and what happens is in our industry. I don't know what the golf instruction industries like, but in the fitness industry, there's always

something with some new thing. You know, they'll see me put a guy on a boatsuit ball and I'm ruining the fitness industry because like I'm I don't like you don't swearing up a golf club, like on a boat, like why you're doing and it's not even part of it, Like you you get a two second clip of this guy's program and it's it's so much more to that.

There's so many more layers to that. But these guys, they want to be the guy on the hill that wants to shout from the mountaintops that we're ruining the golf industry because the whole when you think about proper reception, when you think about neuromuscular, when you think about just where you are in space and how your body adapts

to specific things, like we're just training the computer. We're just training the most amazing machine ever invented, and you have to address all those things, you know, because like if you think about you're in a bunker, you think about if you're on a downhill, lie you're playing at

Augusta Nation, there's a flatlow there. So I mean if I never challenge use your stability, never challenge your inkle mobility, those vectors, those four worses, those different angles than when you get out there, you and no man's land and you can't hit the ball off that lab because you've never trained there, you've never been there. Golfers tend to lift, they tend to I think golfers tend to practice golf

like power list. They just they practice it in one specific set, no up down, no sidehill, no anything, And they practice golf as if during it's it's repetition. But golf is all random, there's nothing repetitive about the playing of the game, yet it's practiced in a way that is all repetition. Yeah, And I think I think I've I've actually seen in my career because I've worked with so many talented players over the over the decades, and

what does that seriously date me now? But I think about how many times I've watched on TV a player trying to hit a shot in a bunker or his feet are at the top and he's trying to bend over. You're watching these guys and they're trying to find how many times of the three of us watch somebody like they're rolling their pants up and they're gonna get in the water, but they can't really find it, and then and then this violent swing happens and they end up

losing their balance. I mean, those are the things figure out how to get that stability. And my goal is I want to train you that way in the gym to where when you walk out there, it has transference and go always goes back to the same thing. Like everything we're doing in the gym should have transference into your sport where when you get out there, you've done it.

I watched some of the greatest athletes walk through these doors, and I love to watch to learn, and I love watching kolbe Wayne to a work right because these guys, like you said, Julio Jones, I mean, these monsters come in here, right. I can't remember the center. He had a center that came in from like US, Seattle or some someplace out west. This guy could have walked through these concrete walls and Kobe puts him in his position, and this giant couldn't do anything. He fell right over

again and again again. And then we watched we watched uh Nolan come in right and DJ. DJ laughed so hard, remember, because DJ is like, yo, bro, you gotta figure it out. Got you like he was. You see these amazing athletes, and you know what I love about them. They are phenomenal at their sport, and all of a sudden, it's one common threat. They come in here and they all love playing golf, and then that's the great equalizer. They

realize how unbelievably demanding and difficult it is. So we love about what we've discussed today, and what I hope people take away from this is there there is opportunity, yes, in reading our book Hanging to Battery, that we're very proud of because really, the success of that book is not just coach k Wayne and I. It's the athletes and it's anecdotal, it's it's their true story. It's their real workouts that they believe that are in the pages.

That you can take what you want because everybody is different, right, every all the bodies are all same. Right, there's no book we all didn't create like this magic secret sauce. We just believe in the value of understanding how to assess being professionals that no, we can do the very best weekend but the players have to own it and they have to trust and let go of that control in golf, and they can find their way to better, but it requires the system and the process. Yeah, I

mean it's an applied science. Like I mean, you can take what you want from it, but I mean, at the end of the day, like nothing whatever surpass hard work. Lastly, I mean these are going to be I'm gonna ask you guys to generalize things. I know you guys like to assess, but a lot of people listening to this podcast are never gonna have an opportunity to work with people like yourselves, right, They're never going to really have

the time and you know, dedicated. So give me each one of you a couple of exercises that you really really like for golfers, and then give me a couple of exercises from a golf standpoint that you would want to stay away from that probably aren't going to help you, um and and and could somewhat hinder what you're trying

to do as a golfer. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna let I'm gonna go with things that I want golfers to stay away from, which I know he coach k Wayne would agree with and I'm gonna let him go with what they should be thinking about. I believe golfers

should stay away and caution themselves from Olympic lifts. They are technical, a very few people in the world are qualified to teach those things, and they are detrimental and can cause massive injuries for golfers if you're not stay away under supervision correct and have built up to get to a point to where you're doing that, because again social media is filled with a bunch of golfers that love to put their Instagram stuff on their lift and

heavy weight. You guys do that with with golfers, but you only do it under so strict supervision and we won't let them lift. And we do not do things, especially Kay Wayne and I and our coaches in this facility. We stay away from any potential risks of injury. And I I would say, here's the first answer, and then ka Wayne, I'll take over. Stay away from Olympic lifts

because they're dangerous and detrimental. Yes, when done right over a long period of time, they can be very beneficial, but not for the everyday golf or not for the new golfer. I believe staying away from the Olympic squad and the dead lift and the cleans and things like that, of that nature, you should be mindful of what could happen if done wrong. What about things they should be doing.

I mean, for me, like you gotta get in the transfers playing, you gotta rotate, so any exercise and the transfers plane for people listening, but don't live in your world. That's I mean, obviously we hear that all the time. Tell us what that is. It's rotory, it's it's it's that rotation like everything you're doing. Like we train athletes so much in a lane, your pattern up and down, and then we tell them that's swing a baseball, bat or run everything. When you run, you in rotation, and

when you throw a baseball, you're in rotation. When you swing a golf club, you're in rotation. So if we train in a static or stationary linear and then I'll tell you to go do something transverse or rotary, it's it doesn't apply. So for me, I think any type like you can get in your golf posture, take anchor a band to a wall and just rotate through like rotate through like you're mimicking rotating from inside your right

side all the way into your left side. And then any balance exercise like get on one leg if you're doing dumbbell curls, if you're doing you know, triset press, or if you're doing a band press, or you're doing a band pool, do it on one leg, do ten on one leg and hind on another leg, like anything that challenge you from because you think about it's a bilateral sport. You're into your right side, you're unload into your left side, and that teaches deceleration, it teaches balance.

So when I put you on one leg, it's not just working on balance. I'm stabilizing your foot, I'm increasing anchor mobility, I'm stabilizing your knee, I'm increasing hip mobility. So it's addressing your netic chain. So any balance exercise and combine that with a movement, it's top line. It checks all the boxes. Yeah, because I don't think golfers realized that one you mentioned. You know, the anatomy you know of an athlete, of a human being hasn't changed.

But I don't think people that play golf, you know, recreationally or sometimes even you know, competitively, realize one, you've got all of these body parts. You're trying to coordinate and organize all of them in a dynamic movement pattern that's finished in second half to two seconds max. Right, it's a very quick, explosive motion, and we're asking you to do a lot. And then we're dealing with a majority of the people that are playing golf recreational are

doing exactly what we're doing right now. They're sitting in chairs, they're sitting in cars, so they don't do anything in their daily life that involves any sort of rotation. They don't do anything right. So even right now I'm in this chair, if I was sitting in my office, I'm not going to get up, turn around. I'm just gonna scoot the chair back. The chairs on wheels. The chair rotates for me. So we're asking golfers to do so much in a very very short period of time. Correct,

it's super dynamic. I mean it's everything. Like for me, one of my favorite exercises, I take a golf club, put it across your shoulders. So if your listeners are on the range before you get a golf ball, balance on your right leg and your golf posture and make your back swing and then do five that way, and then balance on your lead leg and turn into your lead leg and then hit a golf ball. And I guarantee you they're going to automatically feel the biggest difference.

It becomes real pretty quick when you give the body and ability to understand what you're gonna ask it to do, because people are basically sedentary and they're deconditioned in life. The massive population and the masses right. People do say that they have gym memberships, and they do say that they do some type of something, but it requires a lot more than just being able to say I've done

nothing for a week. Now I'm gonna go out on a Saturday and I'm gonna tee it up with no warm up, no nothing, and all of a sudden, by the third hole out they go there in the clubhouse, whole number nineteen. Yeah, they can't move. And that's the most important thing I would want your listeners to get from this to like, are the best athletes, the athletes

that we work well on tour and everywhere. Um, we get the body ready to swing a golf club like most individuals get their body ready to swing a golf club. By swinging a golf club like, we actually put you through different planes of motion and movement and challenge the body. We elevate the core temperature where you're actually your body

is actually warmed up. And then when you pick the club up, it's pretty simple to good and transfer into that switch your nera'sceptors on, which tells the NERA pathways what the end uses like you don't just put like Colby said it best ready, Here's here's what lands the plane. People. The club does not move until you pick it up, and that requires your body to get in the game. Well, I love that. Hang the Banner is the new book. Um, I'm excited. Still waiting for my copy. I mean, my

dad's got a forward. I haven't. I haven't gotten a copy yet. I'm still waiting for one. But I appreciate you guys taking the time and and and you know, I'd love to read the book. You know what I mean. I'll go on Amazon and buy I think I know somebody when you're too long. Thanks guys, thanks for talking to us. So that was a really good talk with two of the best in the business their new book, Hang the Banner. Joey d. Coolby Tullyer. Thanks for them

for coming on and listen. I mean it's off season now for for most of the tours around the world. UM, so the players are going to be going kind of through their off course or off season stuff, and I think you'll see a lot of guys, you know, really trying to use these down times, UM, in between when the tours start back up and in the new year, and trying to get in shape and and as weather kind of in the east coast of the US, um Europe, UM, you can get a little dicey at this time, a

lot of people are gonna be inside. And I think it's it's an opportunity when players are talking about trying to figure out ways they can make gains to their their golf swing and the and their game. UM. The off season, UM getting with kind of a dedicated golf is professional getting on a program and UM using the off season to try and and and get your body

in shape for when the weather starts getting better. UM. I definitely think it's um something that the best players in the world are going to do, and it's certainly something that everybody listening can do. Son of a Bhich comes to you every Wednesday. Thanks everyone for listening and we will see you next week.