It's the Son of a Butcher podcast, you know the drill. We come to you every Wednesday. I'm your host, Claude Harmon. This week's guest someone that I've wanted to get on the pod for quite some time and we finally got it done with the end of the year. Joe Scoverin, longtime caddy for Ricky Fowler, but now caddie's for one of the rising superstars on the PGA Tour. Tom Kim,
I think Joe s govern Listen, I'm biased. I had a ringside seat to watch the work that Joe and Ricky Fowler did for a number of years, and I just think he's one of the best in the business. I love the way he presents information. He was a good player, he played college golf, he was an assistant college golf coach. And to me, Joe Scoverin is kind of if you look at the old school caddies from the back in the day of the Nicholas, the Palmer,
the player. You look at those and then you kind of looked at the way caddy and kind of evolved in that kind of eighties and nineties, and you know, to me, Joe scovern is the epitome of what a modern caddy is. He was a good player, he played competitively, he coached college golf, and he has a very good understanding as to what is happening on the golf course, and we kind of take a deep dive into some
of the things. There's some great clips on social where Joe and Tom kim are talking through shots on the golf course when we talk about that. So I'm super excited for everyone to get to listen to Joe Scovern my guest today. If there is a better caddy in the professional game, I don't know who it is. Scoviy. We've been trying to get this for a while. The season's ended now, so good to talk to you. Hell of a year for your boy, Tom kim Man. This
kid's a stud man. He's he's got something. What's it been like the last couple of years caddy in for him? I mean, obviously you spent so many years with Ricky Fowler, and then to get a young player at this stage of his life and his career from a caddy standpoint, it's got to be really exciting for you.
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun for me, you know, after thirteen years with rick and so many good years and the career ad and the relationship we had, getting to start a new relationship with Tom get to know him, you know, twenty years old when I started with him. So just seeing that fire he's got, and you know how Greeny was around the tour and learning so many things. That's been fun for my role to kind of change over the last year and we both really enjoyed it.
Joe, You've I mean, obviously you catty for Ricky Fowler. He's been one of the best players in the game for you know, a long time now. But because when you caddy for a guy like Ricky Fowler, you guys play with the best players in the world. So when a guy like Tom Kim calls you and stuff, you've just finished with Ricky, you're trying to figure out that
next phase of your life and your career. You can kind of given what you and Ricky did and given the the caddy that everybody knows you are, you got to pick and choose anyone that you want to canty for. But there aren't a lot of great players to get that call because they've all got great caddies as well. So talk me through the process of how this came about. Did his agent call you? Did he call you?
Yeah, it was a little bit different. I'd never experienced it.
You know, I'd worked for one guy the whole time I've been out there, and you know, after Rick and I split, I took the playoffs off. Took a little bit of time, and yeah, Tom's agent reached out first
once he had heard the news. I've known Ben Harrison for a long time and he reached out, and then Tom reached out, and you know, I told him I was taking a little bit of time, just kind of figuring out what I was going to do, what was going on, And we chatted a couple of times after that, and we decided to do a four week trial, which is pretty typical in the in the caddy player world that you know, you're trying it out to make sure
it's a fit. And kind of knew that first week at the President's Cup then it was going to be a fit, and you know, kind of took off running. He had a great President's Cup and then he won the first individual event that I worked for him, and it was kind of offul the races from there, and.
You don't get any You don't get a better start than that, do you. I mean, first tournament is the President's Cup. He plays like a stud. He gets a big kind of moment in that kind of arena to where he holds a pot and gets to kind of you know, I thought that was kind of his coming out party, right for everybody to kind of see this really young kid who's just got this. He has this thing. Scotty. I met him a couple of years ago, twenty two.
I met him in Saudi Arabia at the Saudi International when he was still playing the Asian Tour, and you know, he was bouncing around. He was a globe trotter. I don't think a lot of people realize how much Tom kind of bounced around all the various tours. And he got paired with DJ the first two rounds. And it wasn't necessarily scaviy his game that impressed me the most. It was the way he kind of handled that situation
of being a relative nobody at that point. I mean, he's I mean, you got to know a lot about golf to know that the kids got potential. But I just thought the way that he acted, and you know, when we're on the golf course. We're not able as coaches. We're not inside the rope, so we can't really see. But I just was watching the way that he was interacting with a guy like DJ, who he doesn't know.
I mean, DJ is one of the bona fide superstars and competitive professional golf, and he didn't seem phased by it at all. And I asked, you know, AJ afterwards he was like, man, that kid's really cool. I really like him, and so I immediately messaged Trevor Immlman and said, Tom Kim needs to be on your radar for the President's Cup and he was like, you know, I've heard about him. He's like I mean, I was like, dude, I just watched him play two days with DJ, and
this kid doesn't look like he's phased at all. I said, you need to keep him on your radar. And then obviously the stars align and he makes the President's Cup team has a great finish. When you first caddied for him, obviously you're cautying for him in a President's Cup, which is different, but like, we're in the same boat, right, I mean, we're hired guns. And when players ask us to either coach them or canty for them. You kind of have an idea of what you've seen and what
you know. So when you saw Tom up close and spent some time with him early Scotvey, what did you see and what did you like?
Yeah?
So, I mean the obvious stuff physically is how streitty is it? How good of an iron player he was? That got my attention right away. You know, the kid can hit a two iron, you know, on a rope.
And then the thing personality wise, like you're talking about, he had a maturity level in a way competing that I thought was rare in a twenty year old and he you know, even though he's twenty, he is kind of a veteran of professional golf, not the PGA tour, but you know it'd been a bro for almost five years at that point, travel that big world like you mentioned.
I mean the Asian those Asian players, they a lot of them. They turn pro really really early, especially you know the women do it and now we're starting to see some of the guys do it as well. So when you turn pro that early, you're in a professional environment and an adult environment, but you're still young. And we we say that a lot, right, I mean, We look at young kids and we say, you know, he's still a kid, He's still got a lot to learn. But the stage there, it's I always think it's crazy.
And you and I have talked about this before, Joe. I don't think people realize that the PGA Tour is the NFL.
Right.
They don't realize that that's how good the players are that play on the PGA Tour, Right. You know, Dustin Johnson is Aaron Rodgers, right, Justin Thomas is James hard The players that you were watching are the superstars of the other sports. But because we all play golf, it somewhat seems normalized.
Right.
You don't really think of it like the NFL. Right, But pro golf is at the PGA Tour level, that's the best of the best. So when you get a young kid like Tom who he does have a childlike wonder and kind of joy about him, but he is kind of mature because he's been playing all over the world and been playing professional golf for so long.
Yeah, exactly. And that was the thing, is maturity, his charisma. That that was the thing that kind of caught me off guard. Is you know, when the celebrations and all that I didn't know. You know, I had barely met him, so I didn't know that personality was in there, And that was kind of fun to see that and see how the crowd responded to him and how he was kind of the he was kind of emotional leader of that team and kind of got things going and you know, stepped right into that role.
And yeah, just a combination of all those things.
I think how long he had played, but how new the PGA Tour was to him, and the excitement level and that he's coming off that win at Windham and you know, got his tour card now and feel very good about himself and the games good, just all of it kind of mixing and having the President's Cup he did. Definitely caught me a little off guard, and I wasn't expecting that so quick.
We've seen this year lud big Olberg. I mean, comes out of college, you played college golf. You know, I'm a huge fan of the US college system as you are. You were an assistant coach as well. But there are players like Rory, like Tommy Fleetwood that don't go the college route, that go the Tom Kim route. They turned pro early. They travel all over the world. What do you think that benefit is to kid like Tom? And how is what he's done different than what we're seeing.
You know, these these studs that are in PGA tour, you now Gordon Sargent, but Ludvig Algwrig. I mean I've been saying, and you and I have talked about this as well. These kids come out and there is no fear. They come out and they expect to win. And you've been around long enough, Scotty. You know, I go back to my dad when he played the tour. You had to be an apprentice on tour, right, You had to put your two three years in, You had to learn
how to win, You had to get in contention. And I think in the last ten years really kind of when Jordan came out of Texas, it was just I don't give a shit. I'm good. I was good in college. We saw that with Hovey, we saw that with Morikawa, we saw that with Matt Wolfe. The college kids that come out now are different thinkers. And Tom is part of this other group of young players that have traveled all over the world and turned pro early and played
in a bunch of different conditions. Do you think that has been something that is offset the fact that he didn't go to college.
Yeah, I mean, like you said, I agree with everything you're saying about. These guys are so ready so quickly now right, and you see him with the golf tournaments they're winning and what they're doing. I think the one difference with him is, you know, he's been making a living playing golf since he was sixteen. He was used to the pressure of that. He's lived in different countries, He's traveled around the world. Like you said, you know, you saw him in Saudi, he'd been to Dubai before
this last week when we went. He's been to all these places. He's played in all these different countries. He's played against grown men for all this time. So I think for him that's where the difference is is we get our guys so ready with how good the college
system is. But he was already used to playing against grown men and playing for a living, and so I think the travel, being able to handle all that stuff, you know, different types of food, hotels, all these places, it didn't really phase him because he'd been to all these other countries. It's a lot easier to travel within the US city to city than it is going from country to country and different money, different languages, all these things, and he'd already been through all that.
What do you feel like are some things that he does really well that maybe everyone listening doesn't know? And where do you feel like he can make improvements and get better?
Yeah? He's first of all.
He's so he's so good about taking constructive criticism and wanting to get better and wanting you to tell him, like what do I need to get better at? He kind of like begs you for it, like what do you think wasn't there this week?
And sometimes I'm like, hey.
Man, it was awfully good, Like you're good, You're fine. I mean he was asking me what I thought his weakness was in Vegas after we won a few weeks ago, and I'm like, hey, you want the let's just enjoy this for a few days. But I think his biggest strength, like rather than the physical skills, is his work ethic, his ability to get better, and his ability to understand how to get better, how to improve, how to put the time in and not just wasting hours out there.
He's a very good practicer, gets a lot out of it, and he's he brings a focus and an intensity like every day brings a tournament intensity on Monday and Tuesday, and when he's hitting balls, it's and you just don't see that a lot, right guys kind of have they have, you know, gears right like you kind of I'm gonna go hit a few balls today, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and then you know, you turn it into tournament gear.
He's tournament gear all the time.
And I think that's a great trait to have, and he plays in that mindset every round that he plays.
You can get I mean you've been out there a long time, Scotty. You can get as a rookie. You can get lost on tour. You can start going to the equipment trucks every week and try and stuff. You can be cycling through caddies. You once you get to the PGA tour, you have access to things that you don't have access to anywhere else in the world. Right, you have access to tour trucks every single day. You can mess with your equipment seven days a week. You
can mess around with caddies. You can go get coaches, you can go get players, and we have seen players that you can see sometimes get out on tour and they get a little bit lost there. They don't know how to set a schedule. So I think what you said there is really really important for a young rookie to have the maturity of one. I want to get better, I want to listen, but I am organized when I'm at tournaments and I can get my work done.
Yeah. Absolutely. And he had a little lull in there where.
He was really frustrated and the patients was leaving, and you know, we had a lot of talks about you know, hey, this is this is golf works, right, and this is what goes on and you're playing with the big boys now and playing Vegas and that golf course and that field compared to Memorial against that field on that golf course, or two different things, right, And there's steps, and I think he wanted to kind of fast forward through the steps a little bit for a little while, and then
he took a step back, realized where it was at, and then went had a great summer. And his answer to everything is work harder, work harder, work harder, And so he's not scared to put the work in.
I think I know the answer, but I'd be interested to hear your version of it. How important in a player caddy relationship is it to get a win early and what do you feel like that does for a new relationship for you and Tom To get a win in the fall after having kind of a breakout at the President's Cup, but he gets his first big win on the PGA Tour, What do you feel like that's done for your guys' relationship.
Yeah, I think just those first two weeks were huge for us, the fact that he had so much success at the President's Cup and then went and won with no bogeys at Vegas. And I think it probably gave me credibility to where there was a trust factor with me and what I had to say and that I could do my job at that level. And I think so that was huge to get that early, because if he don't get success early, then maybe he's thinking something differently.
He had won with his other guy, you know, and did I make the right choice?
Is this going to work?
And I think it just kind of instantly made things to where there was a trust factor that we were able to speak freely with each other, communicate and he would take what I had to say and you know, listen to it and decide if he was going to do it or not.
And so I think it was really important early on.
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your daily health and fitness regiment. There were some great social clips, Joe, of some of the talks that you guys went through, specifically out in Vegas that first week. There was one that went, you know, viral basically on social But I think what it illustrated was what it is to be a great caddy at the tour level, and that is why I I'm not joking. I think you're easily one of the top two or three best
caddies on the planet. But that interaction that everybody got to see where you're standing there, you guys, so set that it was. I think it was on one of the Was it on the par five where you were trying to talk him into? So set that situation up. If if everybody listening hasn't seen that, you can go back in and find this on on social But talk us through the situation. It was on the front nine, right, was it? Nine?
Nine? Yeah?
Okay, so nine you guys are finishing, and talk us through the situation of what you were trying to get across. What were the numbers and what in your head, Joe you're trying to say to the player in that moment. So talk us through. Set us up. So nine's a par five? How far is nine out in Vegas?
Yeah? I mean it's usually a driver.
I don't know the exact yardage on that hole, but you know, the long hitters can get a mid iron end sometimes you know, six seven iron if it's the right wind. The shorter hitters we're going to be coming in with three wood or a long iron, and then it's all kind of depends on how firm it is out there and what winds You've gotten everything there.
But he'd hit it just in the right ruff.
That ball sneak into the right ruff very easily, and he had a jumper lie.
So it's like, how's this thing going to come out? What's going to go on?
And basically our debate was about which club was the right one to hit in there, not necessarily to hit it close to the hole, but to take the trouble out of play. And so there was a bunker that I was worried about that if this thing came out a certain way, that that bunker's in play. And so my whole case with him was trying to get him into the other club so that that bunker was out of play because we could play from all the other spots.
And so we kind of went back and forth on it and ended up, you know, having this audio that everybody kind of ran with, and he ended up going with the one we talked about, and then he made some comment about it being the right one or whatever, and that got on there. It's everybody kind of, you know, made it the thing with the Instagram and everything else, but it's really that's what we're doing all the time, right.
It's like no one's doing anything that drastic. It's but it's like, well, if this ball comes out this way or does this? And the players worried about hitting the golf shot right, so they're thinking what's the perfect shot, what's the right thing? I was thinking, Okay, we're coming from the rough, this lies unpredictable. What's going to take the biggest problem out of play? And that's all I was trying to do.
I think so many players joke because I mean I see so many players, and it's a constant theme that I talk to not only to the players, but also on the podcast. This con I think professional golf is the balance between talent and execution, because by the time you get to the show, right, by the time you get to the PGA Tour, everybody is good, right, and you were playing against the best, right, So everybody, the majority of the people that that make it to the
PGA Tour were really good amateurs. They were really good juniors, they were really good high school players, they were great in college. So by the time you get to the show, everybody's good. And I think what you were trying to talk to them about is something that I think a lot of people don't think about. Is you're talking about how can we take the trouble out of play. And I think I'd love to get you to expand on this. How much do you think of yourself as a mentor,
as someone that gives information. I mean, you've always struck me as a type of caddy that you're not going to full blown give your opinion constantly, but you're going to give your opinion when first and foremost you feel
like you need to do it. But you're also going to wait to give your opinion when you're asked for it, because I think a lot of times it's just easy to constantly just give your opinion, give your opinion, and sometimes players can get overloaded with that, right, And so how do you as a as a as a as a caddy balance that between how much information do I give the player? How much is it his decision? How
much is it our decision? Because obviously we've heard, you know, we've seen Phil and Bones back in the day where Phil i'membus that great one at TPC where Phil hit this shot and he's like, I didn't want to tell you what I was doing. Michael Greller and Jordan they have their vetos to where they can veto clubs, but what's been your style in what do you feel like your role is from an information standpoint to give to the player.
So what you said is exactly right, and it depends on the player and what they want, what their personality is, and how they're going to play their best. So I've had two different roles, Like even with rick the role kind of changed along the way as he matured as a golfer, as he had played more of the golf courses, as I'm matured as a caddy, and you kind of find your way of doing things and maybe that changes
over the years. And then with Tom it's been a very big change because I went from a guy that had seen all the golf courses ten, twelve, thirteen times, you know, understands tour conditions, you know Ricky's so he's almost like a golf savant in the way that Ricky plays and he just understands lies and how to hit shots and play that way. And then Tom comes in and his style is a little bit more of a lab.
Like I kind of though it like he's playing in a lab and like it's like I hit it here, I hit it this far, this is what I do, this is how it goes, but he hadn't seen these conditions yet, he hadn't seen firmer conditions, he hadn't seen tour style golf courses. And so my role has expanded with that of like, hey, okay, this is where we're trying to land at, this is what we're trying to do. Let's kind of, you know, let's look at this and
go here. And so there's a little bit more of a forceful nature because that's what he wants from me too, and he gave me the reins to do that. So there's a little bit more of that role now than what I had with Rick, Whereas with Rick it was more of a hey, ask my opinion. I'm gonna give it, and I'm gonna give it very confidently, but I'm not just going to go straight into that with him, like
he said. With Tom, there was a little bit more, especially early on, going straight into that because that's that was my role. And now even as Tom's matured, I noticed a big difference at Vegas this year. You know, I was talking him off pins like the pins that you don't go at, the pins that we're tough. The first time I had to talk him off those and I had to work hard to talk him off of them.
This time.
He came down the stretch and he's like, we're going twenty feet left right. Yep, I'm going twenty feet right right, and like he was doing it himself.
He didn't need me to do it.
I don't think everyone listening Joe and We've had story. I keep trying to bring these stories to the people listening, But I don't think the average golfer realizes how many pins around. You guys aren't even messing with. I think everybody thinks that you get to professional golf, you're the
best players in the world. You have the most talent, you have the most control, so you basically are just firing at every flag from the jump right from Thursday, it's just I hit it every flag, and I talk about what to you are green light pins, what to you are kind of not green light pins, and what to you are red light pins. We don't mess with these peer in your head as a caddy. Now, obviously it's player dependent because obviously the best players in the
world they can do anything right these guys. You know, my dad used to say back in the day Mark Calcavecchia, you could put a flag in the middle of the ocean on a buoy in Calcavecia, be aim and write at it right. So these guys have the talent and the confidence and the skills to do it. But for you, as a caddy over the years that you've been doing this, what to you is green light? What to you is Okay, we don't need to aim at this and we're just
gonna dump this. And then what is we don't even mess with this?
Yeah, So with me, I think it's a combination of things. I think like and you'll see a lot of these stats guys are involved now with these players of letting them kind of know, these are your strengths. This should be the green light, this should be a yellow light,
you know, things like that. But then when you get past the player strength and you're just looking at a pin, like working if you were working for multiple players or just any player, you're talking about it to me like there's one experience like when I've seen bad things happen to certain pins or see that you know, you always kind of get a firm bounce, like there's a pin in Vegas on the tenth, eleventh, the twelfth hole, the par four down the hill that when they get it
back left, like you cannot try to land it over the top of the ridge. You have to take a chance with having a thirty foot pot from below that ridge, and if it gets the hop over the ridge, great, but if not, the reason that's basically red light is over that green is no good.
It falls off. The up and down is tough. If it gets anywhere right, it's going in the water.
And then if it's left, there's a bunker that's pitching to a downslope that's very tough. So you're just trying to there even if even with that hole you're coming in with a nine iron or something like, unless those greens are really soft, which normally they're not. They're not hop it's just you can't stop it. So you're playing for like our perfect shot lands twenty five feet short, and that's the one that gets there, and if it
lands thirty feet short, will take the pot. So that's an example of like those kind of things, and some of that's learned from experience of being to the courses a lot. Other is just kind of feel like the first time you saw the golf course, just where the trouble is that the fact that you could make a five or six quick and that this might not be a birdie hole.
Okay, we're leaning towards this.
And then obviously when you get to the five iron on up, there's not a lot.
Of pins you're firing at right now.
If you go somewhere and it's rained and there's no trouble around it, then and your guys feeling good, then keep firing away. And those are the weeks that you'll see these guys shoot twenty four, twenty nine, thirty under because they're just firing away and there's not really any consequences to it.
So the running joke has always been that, you know, caddies with the jockey, and the player is the horse. So the balancing acts through the course of around Joe knowing your player, you know, because obviously I always say, and I a friend of mine, you know, I said this on a podcast and he was like, man, I can't believe you said that. But professional golfers are like dogs. They communicate with us nonverbally. There are times where they want.
To communicate, and then there are times where they don't want to communicate right, and you have to kind of as caddies and coaches, you kind of have to, like you're looking at the body language, right, You're trying to because.
Sometimes they're not saying anything when you work with a new player. And you guys got into the hunt not only I mean you get thrown in the deep end at the President's Cup, but then you guys get in the hunt on Sunday at a tour event. You've been in those situations a lot of times and you and Rick have had great success in that situation. You've been in that situation a lot of you know, tons of times, and you guys haven't won, So you kind of know
what that cauldron, that kind of that field of battle is. Like, what was Tom like getting into the hunt on a Sunday. You know, you guys are two weeks into your relationship. He's never you know, he's one yes and Windham before. But it's a new relationship for you guys. So what did you see down the stretch when the pressure got the most early in this kind of new relationship that you had that you went okay, I kind of like this.
Yeah.
So there was two shots at the President's Cup that got my attention. There was a left pin on what is normally seventeen at Quail Hollow. I can't remember what number that was during the President's Cut, the tough part, three down the hill and it was a left pin and he just fired right at this thing with a sixth iron, and this thing was never leaving the flag. He was not scared of the water, he was not
scared of anything. And that one got my attention. And then the two iron that everybody that watched that President's Cup, you know, coming in there. Sam Burns in the next group hit nine iron in and Tom hits this two iron and I remember I actually I had seen enough of him already that Trevor, you know, you know how it gets all that for those of that aren't there at the President's Cups Ryder Cups. The later your match, the more there are guys hanging around. You got both
teams right there. So he's got Justin Thomas and all these guys, you know, all the American studs right there, and then there's a few guys from our team and Trevor at his cart there, and I remember when he went over it, I knew it was a really good number for him, and I'd seen enough to irons and I just smile at Trevor, and I knew it was getting in there somewhere, and you could just feel it
in the kid already. And then the way he stepped up there and made that pot and everything else, you just knew he could handle it.
And then he liked this.
And so it was the same at Vegas. You could feel that he liked it. Is he nervous yet? And he's more of a Jordan speak. He's talking through it the whole time, and he's chattering constantly. So the nice thing about that is you know how he's feeling. So my role is to kind of be the and man, we're all good, like chill out and like some people will give me a hard time out of there, like man, you kind of almost like sound like you don't care
when they're talking to him. But that's my role with him, is that when he gets a little bit worked up or whatever, I just try to simplify it and say, this is all we're doing.
Just go ahead and do this, and so it's worked out nicely.
Are you nervous in those situations, Joe, Because obviously, I mean I get nervous, right, I mean I get nervous on the range on Sundays. You know, when guys have chances to win, you know, major championships, you get nervous when they're not hitting it good. But one of the things I've always marveled at what you do, and I think it's a trait that all the great caddies have, is your body language on the golf course is is very very calming, right. I mean, you'll pull the bag over.
You kind of always have that thing to where you've got one arm on the bag, you're leaning on it the feeder. You know, you've got your one foot cross across the other. It doesn't look like you're worried at all. But when you do make these calls like we talked about, you know, the ones that we're able to see on social as the player, your caddy is going, hey, no, no, no, this is the club. Now the player can Ultimately the
player can listen to you or not. But if the player listens to you, that's a big I mean, that's the closest we're going to get to being an offensive coordinator and going okay, we're gonna call this play in this situation. You being such a sports guy, such a big football guy, but in a lot of ways, Joe. That's that's an opportunity for you know, I see your role with a new player like a Tom Kim, it's a little bit like an offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, CEO,
head coach. They don't know what they don't know, right, and they're hiring someone like you for your you know, almost fifteen years of expertise with a guy like Ricky Fowler. So there is that balancing act of Okay, I've just made a big call here. But when you do that,
does it do the same thing that it does? Like if a player comes in working on something and hey, let's get the club wherever it is, and then they go out and they have a really good week or they play well or they win, it's validation for the calls that a coach made. So when you make a call like that, you guys are walking up. I mean in your head as a caddy, are you going hell? Yeah?
Man?
I mean does that pump you up to see that?
Absolutely?
Because the worst thing, and I've experienced this, and the worst thing is when you make a call that doesn't work out and you feel like you've gotten the way of your guy's success.
And so that's the worst thing.
As a caddy, And so there's a balance of when you know it's right or when you let the guy go. And it's always up to them and it's their gut and their call because it's their career.
I'm just there to give the information.
But when you do make the call and it's right, yeah, it's just like a guy hitting a good golf shot.
You believe a little bit more. You're a little bit more.
Confident and you see you've got this, and the more that happens, the better. It is just like reading putts right, Like certain weeks they call you in and you get the first four reads right now, you're not hesitating at all, but you get a couple wrong, you might hesitate a
little bit. And that's part of I think, just like being it's not as hard to do as it is for a player, but it's part of being a good caddy, just like a quarterback that throws an interception or a corner that gets beat, Like can you come back and give a non biased opinion and like not headge your bet the next time and keep coming back and believing yourself or are you going to get down on yourself and kind of you know, oh man, I'll just stay out of the way and let him do his own
thing here. So I think that is important that you have to keep having confidence in yourself and that and for me, that comes to your prep and like, the more prep that I feel, or the more you know, the more prepared I am, and the more homework I've done and the more things I've studied up on, the better I get to my skill.
That the more confident I'm gonna be.
You mentioned, does Tom ask you to read Putts?
We do read a lot of Putts together, so.
Because I mean I might be wrong on this, but I'm just guessing rick didn't ask you to read a lot because Rick's obviously such I mean, he's just such a generational like feel putter. So that role of not being asked to read Putts for you know, a long time with Ricky and then coming into a new role with Tom where he's going okay, because it's not like for thirteen years you don't know how to read Putts, right, I mean you played so, I mean you're a good green reader. So in a new role, do you find
that fun? You know that Hey, I never got to do this, I never really did this with Ricky because Ricky didn't need me to do this. Now I'm kind of getting called in and it's kind of a collaborative effort. I've seen situations like that where you see players and caddies they over that, right, they bond over that kind of sharing of information, and then you know, I mean,
you go out. I mean, up until DJ and AJ started doing aid point, DJ would never call Aj in for any putts, and then on eighteen on Saturday night, he'd call him in on one and we'd get off the course and AJ would go, Bro. He didn't call me, hasn't called me in in three months on a putt. Now he wants to do it on a six foot downhill left to right putt for par and now he wants my input on it. He never wants my input. Have you enjoyed having more input, you know, from a
from a putting standpoint? Has that been something that's been fun? I just when you mentioned it, I was thinking about it. You never did that with Ricky. Now you've got a young player, he's calling you in. You're on courses he's never seen before, so you can say, hey, listen, I know this putt goes this direction. We've had this before, that's got to be cool.
Yeah, it's been great. And with rick you're right, like he's such a good putter.
We did have spurts where he'd ask me a lot more and certain horses that he'd ask me more if he wasn't seeing things or But the problem, you know, the hard part about that is when you get grape putters like that that don't call you in very much, you get called in on the hardest ones every round, right, they don't they don't know what it's doing, and they're trying to get some confirmation. So yeah, so it's definitely different. But along the way, I kind of learned a couple
of graderating systems. I kept trying to become a better dream reader for when Ricky did call me, and even if it was some tournaments it was zero times, some tournaments four times, other tournaments you know it was sixteen holes straight, it just kind of depended. So with Tom it's a lot more consistent of how often, and we have a lot more talk about speed with Tom, you know of you know going up back down is this
one quick you know downgrain that kind of thing. And then there's certain style of greens that Tom seems to see better than I do. And there's certain ones that I kind of I kind of get those greens a little bit more than him. Like he's a lot better on grain than I am. He just just putt it on grain and he gets it.
I would imagine playing so much in Asia that grainy greens, greens that are that are slow. I would imagine he didn't grow up playing on super fast bent that are super hard.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he sees that well. And then what he's done is he went and learned name point this year.
So he'll go do the feet and do all that I learned name point, but I use my eyes with it just so that we can communicate in one point zero, one point five whatever. And then he'll, you know, he'll say I got one point five in my feet and I'll say, yeah, that looks right to me. Or I'll say he'll say what do you got and I said, I got one point oh, and he'll say, okay, I got one point five.
And they'll kind of decide what he's gonna play.
And then ultimately, as you know, like most putts, you know, if it's a cup out putt and foot by speed.
You could hit it half a cup.
Out and a cup and a half out with the right speeds and still make the putt.
So that player's got to go to their field.
And how hard they're going to hit the pot, how they feel about that pott and being comfortable over it. So we're just giving them a you know, unless it's an inside right versus outside right, you're really just giving them a guide and then they're going to go aim it where they aim it, and you know, you're kind of like a confirmation more than anything.
I think, what do you think, Joe, it takes to be a great caddy at the tour level.
So I think I think preparation willing to learn.
I think those are two big keys, because of then you're going to be ready to go. You're going to have all the information your guy asks. But then I think to take it a step from there, I think if you've played competitive golf, it's an advantage because you just understand how it feels.
You understand what's going through them.
Even if it was an AGGA event at that time that felt like a tour event to you, you know, or if it was a cityameter that was your major at the time, right, So you still felt those feelings. It's not on this level and you don't have the skill set, but you get it and you can at least relate to it a little bit. And then I think on top of that, I think being able to get along with players, being able to get along. There's a lot of time in between shots, there's a lot
of time together. There's a lot of you spend more hours with your caddy or your player than.
You do your wife most of the time.
So being able to get along, have a personality that gets along with that player, makes them comfortable do that. I think those are kind of the things that can kind of separate you a little bit so that they're in a comfortable state and they trust you.
You know.
And then just being consistent, like beyond time, like do things the right way, show up the work, be ready to go, be positive, just all the little things that are going to make you successful in life. You can figure out how to be a good caddy out here.
You said prep work, Scovey, what's the prep work for everyone listening that you think as a caddy, what is the prep work? Because a lot of people think that a tour caddy to just get to the golf course, show up, carry the bag, leave. What for you is your prep and what in your prep are you trying to get done? And what advantage are you trying to gain by the prep work that you're trying to do.
Yeah, so early on I had to spend a ton of time catching up on the golf courses. You know, I came out with Rick, we're both out there the first year. Man, I got to learn all these golf courses. So there was a lot of time on Mondays just learning the golf courses.
And Scovey when you say Scovey, when you say you're trying to learn the golf courses, what are you trying to learn from these golf courses as a caddy?
Yeah, So one I would always start with, Okay, where do we need to try to hit this off this tea?
Is this a driver hole?
Is it's a whole that we're trying to keep some hazard out of play? Are we trying to hit to the widest part of the fairway? What are we trying to do? And then you're talking about that in practice reunds, right, like,
what's our strategy going to be on this all? Then probably The most important part is pins and knowing which pins are gopins, which pins are not, where you have to land at certain pins, where the leave is all those kind of things, so you know, and the leaves around those greens right where's trouble, where's not?
All that kind of stuff.
And then you have things like awkward layups on par fives or you know, something of that nature that you might have to get some extra numbers, get something from a weird angle that might happen that week, so that you're ready when that happens during the event.
Mark Long does such a.
Good job with the yardage books now that you don't have to do a lot of the stuff you had to do before. So for me, most of my time now if it's not a new course to me, it's just refreshing my memory on leaves, the pins, how these play what we're hitting off the team, where we're trying to hit it. And then you're looking at the rough, the bunkers, Which bunkers are playable, which ones are, what rough's bad?
What isn't is? You know, are we able to get aggressive on this all? Are we not?
And just wanting to be as familiar with the golf course as you can, you know, lines anything like that, so that your player asks you a question you can answer it.
Yeah, that's got to be I mean to me, that's got to be the goal.
Right.
You don't ever want to be out there and have the player ask you a number or shot that you are like uh, because they can pick up on that quick right, especially especially I would imagine having never really been in that situation, but I would imagine especially down down the stretch and in the hunt. You get in the hunt, the player can figure out if you're scared quick right as a caddy, and that believe it or not.
And and for people listening, that does happen, right. It is not easy to get I don't think people realize when you get on the back nine on Sunday and you're one of the five to six seven guys that have a chance to win the golf tournament, the air gets thin. It's it's not easy. And I think having confidence in being prepared makes the player know that you've done all the work and that there isn't anything that you guys are going to get thrown that you haven't kind of known or figured would happen.
Yeah, exactly, and the thing that happens, it speeds.
Up a lot out there. That's what I noticed the first kick fast that we got a contention. It speeds up.
And so like the more prep you've done, the more things, the more the more you know about the golf, Cresenta, you can kind of slow things down and then help the player slow things down and talk in that manner rather than being in a rush to get a number, get something you don't know for sure, and then that fo mistakes can happen. And to me, we're not hitting any of the shots. We don't have that pressure that
is so hard to do. So for me, it's I need to provide the right info and I need to be in a state of mind that I would want somebody next to being to be in that they're calm, confident, you know, like a coach or somebody that just gives off the right vibe to their team. You don't ever want to be doing the opposite of that and bringing your player down. If you should always be the one that's bringing your player up, making him feel more comfortable and making him as comfortable as you can in that.
Situation, Scotty, I want to go through players and caddies and talk to you about both of them, Scotty Scheffler and Teddy Scott an amazing partnership. Teddy, who caddied long time for Bubba Watson, You and Rick spent a lot of time around him. What do you think makes Teddy Scott a great caddy?
I mean, I thought Teddy.
I thought Teddy Scott was a great caddy for a long time. I mean caddying for Bubba and the fact that he could hit four different clubs and how many different flights for each shot, and just how fiel orange he was and being able to kind of manage that and have the success that they had. I thought how
Teddy did that was fantastic. And then we've spent a lot of time with Teddy and Scotty over this last year because Scotty and Tom are tight, and I just think Teddy's experience and his maturity is what he's brought to Scott Scotty and I think there's a big trust there, there's a great relationship there. And obviously Teddy's a really good player. He worked you know, he's won multiple August Does.
He worked for one of the greatest players on the planet, and so you can just see why they've had the success they've had, you know, combining how good Scotty is with Teddy on the bag.
What have you seen over the last couple of years of Scotty Scheffler's game that have just been I mean, he is he has been so impressive. And obviously I haven't seen him play a lot up close in the last couple of years, so all my guys went to live but he played a bunch of practice rounds at the Ryder Cup with Brooks, and even though they didn't necessarily play great, I just I'm I am so impressed by the way Scotty Scheffler plays golf.
Yeah, it's I mean, he hits it so good all the time.
I mean it's like, I mean he.
Played practice though he just cheaps doing it over and over and over. And then the thing that's always separated Scotty to me, and you see it in pretty much every great you hear about that like dominated the game or went on big runs. You know, Jack Tiger, those kind of guys they hit long iron so high and they bring it in so high and solid.
It's the Tiger back in the day. You know, the four iron that's coming in like a nine iron.
And it's such a big deal when he gets to these levels, Like everybody talks about how far does the guy hit?
How far is it? And I'm like, well, how high is he launching it? And how's that thing carrying? And how high does he hit long irons? Because it just changes golf courses. You can get to pins that other people can't get to fins.
You can't win major championships unless you can hit long irons high. It's very difficult to win majors and a bunch of them if you can't flight both up and down the high and the low. That five iron, that four iron, that three iron. You've got to have that control. Rory McElroy and Harry Diamond. I think Harry out of I think Harry and AJ out of all the caddies in professional golf, kind of get the most looked over. As you know, their players are so great. Anybody could
caddy for these guys. You've been out a lot with Harry Diamond. It's easy when when Rory plays poorly, a lot of people pile on the you know, fire Harry Diamond bandwagon, which I think is total bullshit. I like Harry Diamond's a very good caddy. What do you like about Harry in the way that he caddies, because you've been out with those guys a lot.
Yeah, I mean, Harry's a good player himself. That's kind of a common theme with a lot of these guys. I think he understands Rory really well. He's calm, he's never gets kind of worked up the situation, never looks like, you know, Harry's just going out there and he's gotting it and he's doing his thing, and he's like, hey, we're playing golf.
This is what we do.
And then you saw it when they won Quail Hollow whatever.
Year that was. Was that a couple of years ago?
Oh yeah, when when Roy hit it left.
And he was calm enough to suggest the drop that they could take that. And I don't remember the exact situation, but I remember thinking to myself, man, and that big of a moment to be that's a huge health the idea, and that's your job to be calm enough. But a lot of guys aren't gonna and they're going to miss that or whatever. And the fact that he suggested all that and that they ended up finishing off the golf tournament when things could have gone awry there.
That impressed me.
Well, you mentioned that that I don't think people realize I I like him down the stretch in tournament golf, like the red zone offense and professional football. It's the two minute drill. How many time outs you had, And you said, when you get in the hunt, things can start moving really really fast. Right, So Rory snap hooks
one off the tee. He's on a downslope, he's not in the in the water, but he's got to bend down for Harry in that situation, not only to make that call, but to be thinking so clearly Joe in that situation, to go, hey, we could take a drop here, because a lot of times you're so focused, you're on the side hill, you're trying to get a number. You know, it's a difficult situation. There's a you know, down the stretch, you get to the eighteenth hole, you're in the last group.
Now all the cameras are there, Now everybody's inside the ropes. That only adds to the fact that it feels like it's it's moving faster when you look at Rory's game. If you take something from Rory's game and give it to yourself as a player, what would you take?
I'm I said that to him this week. I said that to him this year at Travelers.
We were playing with him and he hit one on the ninth, just up over everything.
And it's the freeest motion, the way he.
Walks into the ball and the way that he just swings it so free, like he has no cares in the world. Is just as a golfer growing up playing and you know, you get tight in your guide in it. There's no guide in him. And I just said to I was like, man, if I could have one golf wish, I'd just like to walk around to your body and hit drivers. You know.
It's it's incredible how free he is with a driver. It's it's amazing.
And he looks, you know, very much like and I've said this before, Ben Crenshaw looks like he was born with a putter in his hand. Sebby looks like he was born with a wedge in his hand. Rory's one of those guys in the Adam Scott Tiger vane to where they look like they were born with the driver in their hand. They rarely, I mean Tiger maybe towards the end. But Tiger in the day, they never look
like they're off balance. I mean, for as fast and as hard as Rory McElroy's hitting his driver, I marvel at he It's like he's a gymnast, he's a figure skater. He can crank one three point thirty, launch it over all the trees, and it never looks like he's even gonna like lose his balance. It's it's unbelievable how good it is.
And he just looks like he enjoys it so much. Oh, he looks like, here I go, I get to show everybody.
Here we go.
I'm gonna hit this three thirty down the pipe, you know, And it's just he looks exciting, like when he goes into the driver.
John Rahm and Adam Hayes. Adam, I think Adam doesn't get nearly enough credit for. I mean, it's easy to jump to bones, to jump to all these other people, but Adam Hayes is as good a caddy as there is in the game.
Yeah, and that's another one that you've heard John talk about it, Like, even besides the caddying part of it, what Adam's done for him person and his trust level with him and his maturity. And you know, that's another thing that people don't realize that when you get into the Superstar world, man, there's a lot coming at you, there's a lot going on, and when you have a caddy that you don't have to worry about, that you rely on when you need to.
Talk to him, that hazard back, that never.
Causes an issue for you, that only aids what you're trying to do and makes your life easier. I think there's a big value in that, and especially the bigger you get with all the distractions and things that can happen. And John's talked about it, and you've heard him say how much he values Adam, and not just as a caddy but as a person. And I think that's you know, their relationship speaks for itself with how much they'd want.
What is the difference, would you say, Joe? I mean, obviously you've never caddied for someone that's struggling to keep their card and stuff, But what would you Because I think it was really interesting that you mentioned that once you get into the superstar world of caddy in right, we're talking like people that don't have chances to win majors, people that are expected to win every major they play in, Right, that's a big That is a big, big jump from
trying to keep your card not being in all the
big tournaments and stuff. So what do you think once you get into the superstar realm of caddyan for someone that is winning majors, is expected to win, what is the difference, right, because you would think it would be the same, but there has to be a I mean, I feel like there's a difference between caddy and for someone that's you know, never won before and is trying to you know, make it and get their first win versus the guys that I caddy or are coaching, Brooks
and DJ. There's a big difference between that. I feel like, I know with it. What do you feel like the difference is when you get a superstar bag versus a regular bag.
Well, first of all, they're just so good, right, So that helps, right, like to catch that is only going to be as good as the player. So first of all, you're working for a guy that's that good, right, So that's amazing. But I think the little things that people don't realize and I got to experience it with Rick, is the amount of people trying to get autographs, do things like that to like helping them manage that, like
helping them manage their time on the range. You have to say no to some people sometimes so that they don't come bother them in the middle of something. Picking and choosing those times to say no. You know, the bigger crowds that you're dealing with out on the golf course. You know, you play with tiger Woods. That's a different crowd walking around and now you're holding people up, you're moving them, you're trying to keep things calm, you're trying to do all those kind of things. So it just
it just gives you some outside elements. And then I think too that these guys they have a brand, right, and so you're part of that brand. And so your job isn't to necessarily be seen or heard or any of those kind of things. It's don't cause any issues to the brand, don't and protect your problem, protect the brand, protect your guy, like and so that's part of your job as well. And like, I think that that's an
underrated thing. It's pretty easy to learn and get used to it, but all those outside factors you don't just get to do whatever you want when you're out there and everything else, and you know, you need to be presented a certain way, and everybody's going to be different how they want their guy to kind of fit into that. But you want to fit into what your guy wants to be out there.
Right, Yeah, I don't. I mean when you look at John Ram's game, and I say this all the time, I don't know how the guy doesn't win every week. I mean, he is that good, right, So when you look at his game, and I mean, you want to take everything from John Ram's game, right, you want to take it all. But what do you look at having seen it up close, having seen it under the gun, that you look at it and go, man, I'd give anything to have that.
Yeah, I think just in general, I've always been a guy that gets tied up in mechanics. And he looks like he's never tied up in mechanics. He's just playing golf and he creates this power and he hits shots and he does all these things and it's so impressive to watch how easy he makes it look, you know, and it just never looks like he's worried about his golf swing.
He's just worried about playing golf, and I envy that. I think that that's the thing that I would take from him, is how he's able to do that.
You know, I've never thought about this, but I say this all the time about Rick, right. I mean, if Rick misses a six seven eight footerer, he doesn't go to the side of the putting green and work on a stroke. He knows he's a good putter. He'll look at you and go, hey, we'll get the next one. Now that you mention it. I don't ever see John Rahm making practice wings. I never see him over while he's waiting on a shot, working on a move. It's
fascinating that you mentioned that, but you're right. Ever see John Rahm working on shadow boxing mechanics on the golf course.
Ever, Yeah, it's amazing. And the way he hits it and the way he does things. I mean, he's so powerful, it's so straight, he's got the different flights, and it just looks like he just says, Oh, I'm gonna draw this one, draw it. Oh I'm gonna cut this one. That's how it looks from the outside. I don't know if that's what he's thinking, but that's what I envy the most.
You mentioned you look at John Rahm and he makes the game look easy. Towards the end of your run with Ricky Fowler, Ricky was going through it. I mean he had a really tough to three year stretch. Everybody's you know, everybody's got answers when you're going through that.
But when you are going through that, Joe as a player and as a caddy and as a team, everybody sees the great shots you guys hit, right, but it can get dark out there on the golf course when what you're trying to work on is working it Because everything that work Ricky was working on with John Tillery obviously was working in practice. Otherwise he wouldn't have kept to do that. So this thing that the fans and other people here, Hey, I'm on the right track. What
wasn't going right in that stretch? And it's not it's not specific to rick right because we see it, but that thing when players struggle. Jt went through this last year. Right, You're not gonna find anybody that really is going to work harder than justin Thomas and grind it out. Jordan has gone through this, right, Where when when things aren't going well, what do you feel like it is because you're practicing something and then on the golf course it's not working out. And you and I talked a lot
over the last three years. You're like, dude, it's just we're so close. But sometimes you're so close and you can be so far away. What is that like when you're when you're when the team is struggling.
Yeah, so with us, it was just kind of like an avalanche of everything right. And it's like you're trying to make some changes with the golf swing. You're not quite taking it to the golf course. You know, the fields are changing on you. You're trying to figure it out. You can't kind of get it figured out, and then the putter goes cold, and it's like, wait, that always cleaned everything up. So now if you have a stretch of five holes to where you kind of hit it scratch,
you hit it bad. You normally walk out of those five holes even par, maybe one over, sometimes one under. Now you're walking out of those holes three or four over, and now, oh man, I got to bring this thing back.
You know, here comes a miscut. You know, all the things that go through your thought I'm not saying those were going through my head, but a player, that's what's going through their head, right like there, and so, now instead of playing those holes even par, and then you just then start hitting it pretty good and all of
a sudden you turn that round into sixty eight. Now you have to play great the rest of the way to turn that round into seventy two or seventy three, which isn't going to make many cuts out here, and so and then you it just snowballs. And then when you're a big name, you know, like Jordan or Justin or Ricky, you got to go answer the questions every day. So you're trying to forget about it, and everybody's asking you what's wrong with you every single day, and you've
got to go and there's nothing wrong with me. I'm trying to figure this out, like just give me some time, or hey, there's something wrong right now, but it'll be fine. And they're asking you a question every question, and they're just reminding you how bad you're.
Playing, How bad are you're playing? You know what's going wrong?
This is it and you got to defend yourself, defend your instructor, defend this, defend that and I think it just gets tough.
And so.
I think Rick would probably say it too. I don't want to speak for him, but I think going through those three years when we were going through it, I said, you're going to be better at for this because of this, because you've never gone through this. And I know I'm better because of it because we kind of had a nice ride for ten years, you know. I mean, there wasn't ups and downs. He's consistent, and you know, there
were hard times. We had hard losses and stuff, but we didn't have like hard times and like we got the experience like we're not getting our card back. He had his status, but like as far as like where we were finishing on the FedEx Cup and seeing that kind of tumble and like you know, squeaking into the playoffs or not making the playoffs and those kind of things, I think, and he had to do it in front of the whole world, you know. And so for me, it was we were always just trying to figure it out.
And it was like there was a lot of phone calls, there's talks within the team, there's trying to figure it out.
How do we help this, how do we do this?
And You're just trying to support rick and trying to turn it around, and you know, it gets you start feeling helpless at a certain point and you start wondering, like, well, do I need to change the way I'm doing something?
Do I need to do this? Because you're only trying to help.
And that's ultimately what happened with us is it just needed to go in separate ways, right, And he's had success and I've had success since, and I couldn't be happier for him. I mean I'd cheer it up, you know, watching him win. It was so cool and so and like Tom pulled for him, you know, like it was that kind of relationship and I room with his caddie
now and so like. But it needed to happen, and that's what he needed to kind of, you know that along with a couple other changes he made and boom, look at how he played.
And so it was great to see him back.
And it's it's a hard thing, but I think Rick will be a better person and better golfer because of it.
You mentioned you thought Ricky would learn something through those three years as a player. What did you learn specifically as a caddie that you feel like moving forward for the next phase of your career, Scotty, that you can go, Okay, I went through this with Rick. This is what I learned, and this is what I can take to the next phase of my professional career.
Yeah.
I think number one is I'm a guy that's always like, it's never enough, Let's get better. It's never enough, let's get better. That like, even though I'm not an athlete and I didn't I wasn't good enough to make it that way. My mind works more that way with life, you know, more of a Tom Brady. It's like, Okay, we did that. Now let's move on to this, and
let's keep getting better and better. And I think I learned that sometimes you just have to be where you're at and be okay with it, and you don't always have to keep trying to take these next things because they might just happen, or they might happen in a different way, and everybody goes about them a different way. And I think that you know, your expectation when you work for Rick for that long is always like, Okay, how do we get over the hume, how.
Do we win more? How do we do this? How do we do that?
And you're always trying to do these things and maybe sometimes you just need to let it sit and give it time and it'll happen. And so I think I learned some patience in that manner, I guess, and to not be so you almost start expecting of your guy when you believe in him so much, you expect so much out of him, and sometimes you got to remember
that we're all just humans, you know. And I think sometimes as a caddy, maybe you can push the guy too hard, especially with the relationship I had with Rick.
That maybe you.
Kind of push that too hard and maybe that's not dam and how they're going to do it.
Talk to me about the job your boy John Wood is doing for NBC and Golf Channel. I mean, I thought Bones did an unbelievable job coming out of the caddy ranks and commentating. But I think it is so cool, so cool that the lead on course analyst for NBC is John Wood, a caddy. When you started thirteen years ago and you look at the television landscape, did you ever think that there would be in that seat a caddy, Because I for all of us, it was the obvious
choice out of on course commentators. Yes, the player, But I always thought, why isn't a caddie in this role? I mean, and I think I think Bones set it up amazing. He did a great job. But I think he's going back to caddy in John Wood, who caddied for Hunter, who caddied for Coach. I think John's doing an amazing job. But from a caddy standpoint, it's gotta be great for you to go. They finally have one of us talking about the professional game.
Yeah, I think it's so cool. And of course it was Bones that changes everything. He's kind of done that for our profession the whole way. He's kind of been he's been the standard bearer for our profession, right. And John was one of the guys I looked up to when I first came out and worked those first few Ryder cups. You know, John was one of the best caddies out there, always prepared, always working hard into it,
the whole thing. So it's no accident that those two have been the ones that did it, and that they've done such a good job. And like you said, with John, it's it's great to see and it's nice to know that that might be an opportunity someday for us, you know, and it makes complete sense because we're not having to hit the shots, so we're thinking about all the other factors.
So when you're describing things on TV, you can describe all those factors because you're not you've thought that way the whole time, because you're not worried about, well, what kind of swing am I going to make here? What am I going to do here? It's how's the fly going to react? Where do we need to land it, where's the win? All those kinds of things, and so then you're describing that for the viewer.
And I think it's great.
When you when you and Rick split up and you were trying to figure out what you were going to do before you got to call from Tom, did you think, Hey, maybe I want to try and do some TV and do some stuff like Bones and Wood.
Did so for me, I don't know that I'd excel in that. I thought about a lot of this. I've done it little bit of radio. I fill in with Colt and Drew on Graving and the sleeves a decent amount. And that's something you know. Me, I love talking sports. I love breaking everything down and detailing everything else. And that's great because I have the time to do it those guys and getting in and out the way they do that is tough to do, and I'm not so
sure I could do it. I think I'd much rather be in the studio kind of breaking it down and doing things that way so I can go into my detail. Because the in and out that these guys do that are good at that, it's really impressive.
Lastly, in twenty twenty three, Scovey, what do you like about caddying in twenty twenty three? Where do you I mean, just as a profession, what do you like about where caddying is in twenty twenty three? And what are the things You're like? Yeah, I don't like that.
I'll tell you what.
It's hard to complain about anything at this point from where it's come. When I got out there in the fall of two thousand and nine, and now you know we're at the BMW and the Tour Championship, and we're eating with the players in those events, and you know we got no cut events coming and we're cattying for twenty million dollars.
I mean, it's unbelievable where it's.
Come, Scoby. Is Tom Kim going to live I mean you're eating with the players. I mean that's that sounds that sounds a lot like Live Scoby. You're eating in player dining, you're playing for twenty million.
I mean it's you know, since these when they're getting these smaller fields there, they're going out of the way. I mean, we got courtesy cars the last two events at BMW and Tour Championship. Is unbelievable that these events are doing this, and these events care about us now, and they're like, come to us and ask us our opinion, and we're a part of it. And it's and the tour you know, where their stances come on us, and how much more than they make us feel involved now,
it's just amazing. I mean, if you were going to pick one thing about the job, there would be a complaint. Is it gets old non airplanes and traveling every week. That part of it's the only part that gets old, you know, And it's old for the people around you too, the people you're close to. You know, you're gone, But that's part of the deal. And the job is so good, like it's hard to complain about anything.
Well, I think everybody listening is excited to see your boy Tom Kim play in twenty twenty four. I think Scott, I think the sky's the limit for this kid, and I think he has so many other things that are intangibles that can make up for some of the things from a toolbox standpoint, from a distant standpoint. I mean, listen, everybody can't be blessed with you know, Rory McElroy, Dustin Johnson type length and stuff. But I think he's got
a lot of things. I'm so happy that you landed on your feet with a great player and you're winning again. And on a personal note, man, the negative side of this whole PGA Tour live thing is I just don't get to see you as much as I used to because to me, yes, I missed some of the players, but the people I miss the most are the behind the scenes people. Now that you know, the tours have kind of gone because I don't get other than a major, I don't really go on the big but I miss
I missed the caddies. I miss you know, they're the cat To me, the caddies are the fabric of what professional golf is, right, I mean, to me, that's the glue that holds everything together. So I miss seeing you, man, but I'm happy for you. I'm not bullshit, you know. I think you're easily one of the best in the world at what you do and it's fun to watch you and Tom have all the success. Man.
Well, thanks card, I appreciate it and I miss you too.
So you know, I mean, if nothing else, I mean, if we'll see you Augusta, and we'll make sure that AJ gives you all the good aj isms because.
I looked forward to those at all times.
All right, man, great to talk to you. Scoviy, We'll see you soon, Bro.
You got it to seek.
So that was Joe Scoverrin. And like I said, if there is a better caddy in the professional game, I don't know who it is. I think when you have a player like Tom Kim at this stage of his career, a young player, having someone on the bag on the golf course with you, like Joe Scovern, I just think it's invaluable and I think it's going to be something that is going to be a differentiator in Tom Kim's career because to have someone on the bag like Scave
down the stretch, Joe's not afraid. He knows how to win, and you have to have a caddy that knows how to win as much as you have to have a player that knows how to win if you're going to play on the PGA Tour. I want to thank everybody for listening, rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts Son of It, which comes to you every Wednesday. We will see you next week.