It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. You know, Drill. We come to you every Wednesday. This week's guest Grant Field. Grant is the coach of the Open champion Cam Smith. I was down in Australia last week and had a chance to sit down and talk to him. I'm a huge fan of the work that he does, and I think the work that he has done with Cam has
been amazing. He talks a lot in the pod about how he's been Cam's coach really since about Kim was ten eleven years old, and that's a rarity to have an opportunity to work with a junior player that long and the success that they've had. But the way they work with him and how he works with Cam on a swing, I think it's a really really good insight to a player that isn't necessarily kind of out of
that factory of players. You know, Cam isn't. He isn't six foot one, six foot two, doesn't bomb the golf ball. Miles has a very kind of unique individual golf swing, but it works. He's a great player that breakout year last year to win the Players Championship and the Open Championship, and the way he won the Open Championship and that historic, in my opinion, one of the great duels in Open Championship history. Down the stretch with ry McElroy, we talk
about that. We talk a lot about that with Grant, but really I think this is also an opportunity for everyone listening. It's it's about junior development. It's about developing a player from a young age and how you go about doing that. So I'm excited for everybody to hear Grant talk about it, probably because Grant lives full time in Australia. He's not a household name for a lot of people then you know on the instructor train, but he's one of the best out there and he's doing
great work. So sit back and enjoy listening to Grant Field. Grant, we're down here in Australia for the live event. Before we start talking about Cam Smith, wh I know you've worked with since he was a junior. The fact that any tour would come there, whether it was the PGA Tour, whether it's the European Tour, but the caliber of players that are here this week on display for Australia, for
the fans in Australia, but for golf in Australia. How important do you think this week is for golf in Australia.
I think it's massive. I think, you know, like, to be perfectly honest, I've been involved with golf now, I've been playing since I was an eleven year old kid, and you know, we've never seen a field like this. I mean even go back to the days where Nicholas would come out and Palmer and those guys and player, but we didn't have the depth that's in this field today.
You know, like the top end was really quite strong and the same as when, yeah, we used to you know, we'd get guys from different times where you say Rory had come out or Jordan would come out, or somebody'd come out, but it'd only be one or two guys, and maybe even around the Presence Cup we'd get a couple more for an ASI Open. But to have a field like this, it's got I think thirteen major winners, you know, like just doesn't happen. So and you can tell by the crowds like this is nuts this week.
This is something that we've never seen. And yeah, arguably you know, even at the biggest golf to ones and majors and you know that's what it feels like.
Yet it really does. I mean to have all of these great players in one place. Obviously the fans they get to see it, but there are so many I mean, we've seen so many kids here, so many junior golfers Australia. I mean, it took me almost two days to get here. It's a long way from everywhere, and to come down here,
it's always so special. It's always so much fun. But for the junior golfers that are here that get to see these players, what impact do you think it has and can hopefully have on future generations of golfers to see you guys like Brooks, guys like DJ Phil Cam, but all of these great players in one place. Yeah.
I said to Cam yesterday, I said, like if you have a look at the a man of kids that are around and like you said, take away, whether it's Lebel PJ to it, these kids now are attracted to golf, you know, like they've seen these guys in the range there. You know, they're so invested now in watching these guys and their careers. And like all of us, you know,
we all had our heroes growing up. For us in Australia was Greg, you know, I said, like, and now you know that, like Wade talked about it the other day. He goes like Greg was an idol of mine. Now I'm playing on a tour that he's the commissioner for and you know, like they went out shark dive and the other day like that's what dreams are made of. And you see it all the time. You see, you know, those stories about a young kid meeting you know, their
idol and then then becoming that later on. You know, so I don't doubt there's a kid here this week that will play on tours and they'll say, I remember the time that I saw Cam Smith or Dustin Johnson or whoever it might be play golf at Live Adelaide. You know. So it's very cool.
And was this golf course, Grange golf Course, what a really cool place. It's not something that anybody would think would be, you know, one of the greatest golf course the world. But talk to me about what what makes Australian golf course design so special? Because when I come to these golf courses in OZ and you see, to me, the bunkering is the best bunkering anywhere in the world, the way that the bunkers are right up on the
greens and then they just basically fall off. What do you think the design of these golf courses are so unique and so special.
Yeah, I think if you look, especially in Melbourne in Adelaide, you know we sort of get that. We don't so much get it up in Queensland. But you know, the bunkering, what you said, is is out of this world. And if you short side yourself in this bunkering, unless you're holding a twenty footer, you're probably not getting up and down.
So it then forces you to be strategic about your play, right, So and then what you'll find, I mean this week in Adelaide they had a heap of rain last Saturday night which sort of softened the greens a little bit. These greens get like they normally do, and they're a bit firms all of a sudden, you know, they're firm, they're fast, you know there's some good slope in them.
And then you're getting there some of those short bunkering and you know it'sallenging, so you're not overly long, you know, but again you know you'll see the guys this week, you know, a few irons off ts and you don't see that much these days. You know, you see them hit a lot of drivers, Whereas around here, you know, you've got to be in the fairway and you've got to be coming from the right spot, and if you're not, you get penalized.
One of the things that i DJ was saying about a lot of these greens are raised up greens, and there isn't any real rough around the greens, but there are a lot of slopes. And DJ were saying, you know, as short as the golf course is and as easy as it might look, you get out of position going into the green, and then gravity takes off and the ball will go to a place to where you're struggling to make pops.
And then it's really tight and you're over a bunker to a short pin, and you know, like you said, there's there's a couple of holes out there where you can land it middle of the fairway and finish in the right rough just off the green right, and then like you said, then it's a challenge to get the ball up and down from there. So I think, yeah, look, I mean the guys are going to do well around here, and like you can see, you know, Taylor shot ten
under yesterday. I mean probably didn't see ten under out there, but you can see six seven eight. But equally, it's not hard to shoot over path. So I think it's a great test, and I think it's great because it's not what they play every week.
It's so special Cam Smith. I just can't say enough about Cam as a person, but as a golfer, I mean, he's unbelievable. Talk me through the story. I mean, how long have you been working? When did you first meet Cam? So?
I first met Cam when he was ten. So I was coaching a junior squad up on the Sunshine Coast. So his golf club was in our region, and he came to this clinic as a as a ten year old, and they split up the group so there was three coaches, three players per coach. He was put in my group, thankfully as it turns out now, but yeah, he was put into my group. And then so we did the clinic and you know, actually even at ten, you know, he was a cheeky little thing, and you know, I
had a great relationship. And then the next year his dad sort of said to me I think it's time for him to have, you know, coaching. He really likes you, you know, you interested in coaching, and yeah, I was like yeah, sure, you know, like not thinking, you know, nineteen years later we're going to be where we are now. But and then the next year he came back into
that squad and same thing. You know, he just kept progressing and then you know he's you know, obviously at ten or eleveny he showed promise.
But both what did you see because we all see these kids, right, I mean I work with we both do the same thing you work with juniors and stuff. It's like last year I met Tom Kim for the first time in Saudi Arabia, who's gone on to do great things. He played with DJ for the first two rounds in Saudi Arabia. I kind of watched the way he handled himself. Obviously he's not eleven or twelve. But I immediately called Trevor, a woman who I've had on
my podcast before. I called Trevor and I said, listen, you've got to look at this guy for a president's stuf. And he's like, what are you talking about? I was like, this kid has something. What did you see in cam at a young age. That were some of the qualities that you think helped him get to the stage and the place that he is in his career now.
Yeah, so I mean as a as a like ten or eleven year old, I wouldn't say that I was thinking that this kid's going to be a superstar. I thought, you know, one thing he did have was he was his competitiveness. You know, like we would have chipping comps and putting comps and even at that age, but he hated to lose and very rarely did he lose against much older kids. Right. But it wasn't until he was about, I reckon fourteen or fifteen where I really started to think,
this kid's going to be, you know, really good. Right. He started to compete in some you know, some amateur men's events, and remember him shooting twenty nine around the back nine at Pacific Harbor in the Queens LD Amateur, which was at the time one of his biggest events that he played, and he shot sixty six to the
first round as a fifteen ro ollder. And Pacific Harbor is a really tough course, blows a lot, tricky little thing, you know, And I went Okay, this is you know, not many kids have got that right, and you know, as we as he's progressed, you know, one of the things I think that help can is that he didn't have that length or he didn't have you know, so
he had to develop so many other skills. And you know, obviously a lot's made of his short game and he's he's putting, but I think his competitiveness and he's drived to just you know, not let him beat you, and the mindset behind that, you know, like one of the things Cam always does really well, he's he's never had a handbrake, you know, and he's whenever he's gone low,
from a very early age, he just never stopped. Remember once he shot twenty four under in a Greg Norman Junior Masters, so as a tournament we have down here, and you know, so he was leading. He's about sixteen or seventeen at this time.
Before under when you're sixteen years old, I don't care where you're playing. I don't care if it's a pitching part and it's there's easy golf courses. It was low scores. Especially if you can shoot low scores grant at a young age, that's a huge choosing because not a lot of players know how to shoot low score no, And we always you know, we we have parents, we have players, and I'm sure sure you get this. Hey, what are the great players do when you know they get a
good round going? And you see these kids, right, hey, you were six under through like thirteen holes and then you ended up finishing three under. What happened? And they're like, well, I just started to protect and they said, what do the good players do if a good if one of the best players in the world gets to six under, he's trying to get to seven under, it's trying to get to eight under. He's trying to get to nine under.
Well, and that was the thing with that event, right, So through three rounds he was sixteen under okay, and no, fifteen under and he rings me and I said, how'd you go? And he goes, yeah, pretty good, And I said would you shoot today? He goes nine and I went nine under and he goes yeah. So like he's leading and then he finishes by shooting nine under to
finish twenty four under for the event. And I'm just like, you know, and I think MeV and Cliff, you know who's played in Europe and you know, you got to like maybe sixteen or seventeen, and the next behind them was like three, Like they streeted the field like even back then, you know, like it was just you know,
really uncommon to shoot that low at that event. And you know, they're the sort of things that he was doing early on, and then you know, he's one of the things I think is the best things that Cam's done is is continue to get better, you know, every year, And that's you know, that's one.
Of the mantras that I always see two players. If you can just every year get get better, whether it's one percent, everybody thinks, Okay, I've got to get one hundred percent better this year. I've got to get twenty. You just need to get You just can't have a year where you go backwards if you want to keep going in a trajectory that's going to get you to where you want to be.
Yeah, And sometimes getting better is actually doing the same thing more often, you know what I mean? Like you know what I mean, Like I think sometimes I kind of look at it when I work with a player, I'll go, Okay, is what you're doing currently good enough for you to do what you want to do right. And if the answer is no, is it a work in progress? Right, So we're on the right path. We just need to stay the course or b will it never be right? So if the answers it will never
be then something needs to change. Right. But if the answer is we're on our trajectory that we're on, we've just got to get better at it, you know, and whether it be a technical thing, whether it be you know, just getting more comfortable being out on tour. You know, like I look at Jed at the moment. I think you and I've talked about these jet's got a really really big upside and he's got a big set of tools. He's just got to get more comfortable being where he is.
And you know that takes time, you know, And I think so he's on the right trajectory. We're not looking to change things. We're just looking to get better at him.
Jed Morgan's a guy that's on Cam's ripper team. Was there a discussion Cam took. I mean, there's two routes, right, but you can go, especially if you're from oz and you know those roads are well traveled, you know. The modern generation Adam Scott even though he went and Scotty played one year in college golf, made the decision to go play college golf in America, even though he played
one year at un LB, he took that route. Was there ever a discussion with cam did you guys did he look at playing college golf in the States?
Not really? Yeah, he's not smart enough to go to college. No, no, no, that's not true. I guess one of the things with Australia, so back when Scotty was going through, there wasn't really the support of the programs for him to follow, whereas now, you know in golf in Australia we have you know, in Queensland we have the queens and Academy of Sport program, we have a Victorian program. In New South Wales has got a program so and they're all Golf Australia programs.
So and then once players go through those programs, we also have a rookie squad okay, and the rookie squad is the young pro So we have a private investor who you know, funds you know a lot of the young kids when they go out and tour, so there's money for those kids to then you know, in those first sort of three four five years their young pro life, I guess you could say, to help support them. So we actually have the pathway which a lot of them
can follow. So my sort of take on it is, if you've got a young guy that wants to go to college and wants to get a degree, and wants a life experience and all those things, it's a great opportunity to go to university in the States. But for the guy who just wants to be a golfer, I think we can take part, you know, take care of
that early part of that next level of development. And I think that's one of the things sometimes I think, you know, a lot of the good colleges have it, but some of the other ones there's not really that development piece for when they go over there. And whereas I think that age between sort of eighteen and that twenty two to twenty three, there's still got to get a lot better before they're ready to go out on tour.
So Tiger, when my dad worked with Tigers at Stanford, he played at Stanford for a number of years, and then they got to a point where you know, my dad was looking at his game and Tiger had really wanted to turn pro and my dad kept saying no, no, So there was that moment where Tetob said to my dad, what do you think and my dad said, yeah, you're ready to go now.
Yeah.
When was the moment when you said to Camp all right, you aren't aw ready to turn pro and make a career of this and give this a real chance and see how far you can go.
Yeah, So he turned pro at twenty. So Cam like got into a lot of say Aussie Tour, you know, professional events from about the age of seventeen.
And the scary thing is that's back when there actually was a tour down here.
Yeah.
Well the fact that there's no tour to play.
Well now there is, but it's not really you know what, Yeah, exactly right, you know. And so Cam had sort of finished fourth in the Queensland PGA, had finished tenth in an Australian Open. It'd had some really good, you know results in bigger events. And for me, you know a lot of people say, why isn't he turned pro yet? And it's like, because he's not ready, you know, but he wasn't ready for the level that we wanted him
to be. You know, he could have played golf in Australia and he would have made money and he probably could have gone to Asia or whatever. But we just thought that little bit of extra development was going to pay off in the long run. And you know, looks like we sort of made the right choice.
I think I had Truman Thah who was the commissioner of the Asian Tour. The road that Cam went is not the road that a lot of people that win majors. He didn't go play the corn Ferry Tour. He didn't go play the PGA Tour. He started not a lot of people know this. He started down in Alls and then he went and played kind of in the Asia Pacific region from a professional level, played Asian Tour. Did he go.
Playing Well, there's a there's a story to that, all right, right, So basically Kim went to corn Ferry or at the time, he went right and knew that and missed his tee off time. So you know, for Kim, say, what happened was when he was leaving, We're like, you haven't got a lot of time to prevent him, and he goes, no, I'll be fine, Like you know, I've been to the Woodlands at plenty of times. We have a Golf Australia camp there, or we did have a Golf Australia camp there,
played there heaps of times. I'll be fine. I'm like, okay, no worries. So anyway, he gets over there and you know, gets to go and have his practice around on the Tuesday and he goes over to the tea and says, oh am, I right to go out and play and they said, oh sorry, who ay and he said, oh Kerin Smith. They said, you've missed your te off time
and he went sorry. He thought the tournament started on the Thursday, like every tournament known a man, and the actual tea off was on the Tuesday, and he'd missed his time. So that day I'm looking scrolling through the list and I couldn't find him. I went back up, couldn't find him, and then I went down to the
bottom and it had disqualified. Next minute, the phone rings and Cameron's on the phone and you know, obviously upset and you know, like he's just flown all the way over there, and you know, anyway, so at that moment, I said, all right, we go to Aussie to a school, we get a card there, we go to Asia and I said we'll work on backdoring ourselves onto a tour. And you know, I didn't think it'd be as quickly as it was, because what happened was he got his
asient too. We got both cards, and then got his agent to a card for his second in his second Agent Tour event, and then had like I think maybe six or seven top tens, and then got into the Cooming Classic, which used to be in my life, and ran fifth in that event, which got him as start the next week, and then he got some sponsors invites and basically so look, he ended up on the US two a way quicker than he would have if he actually went through web dot com and had to go
down that path. So you know, at the time, you know, it felt like we'd missed an opportunity, but you know, by sort of rerouting and taking another opportunity, ended up there probably, like I said, quicker than he would have.
Do you think, I mean, going through that experience, A lot of players don't come back from that, right. I mean, you're young, you're from Australia. I mean, you're in the States, trying to go to web dot com Q school. You miss your tea time by your own yeah, yes, state, and that could be a huge setback. Knowing Cam and being around him and kind of watching him, you can tell that his personality lends itself to him just going I'll shake that off. Yeah, made the mistake and I'll just move forward.
Well, I think one of the biggest things we will really quick to set a new path, you know. I mean, like we didn't let that define us. It was like, okay, sooner we could go right, this is now a new direction and we'll get there another way, you know. And that's the sort of the way we went about it. And you know, like you said, you've got to have the right sort of attitude in which he has and yeah, I mean, like everybody, I mean, there's plenty of knocks
out onto it. You know. Look, it doesn't always go away, and he handles them just a bit as good as anybody.
One of the things I love about Cam is he's a little bit of kind of an I think he's kind of an old school throwback. The golf swing certainly isn't anything like what we see the modern golf swings look like now. He's not blessed with the size of guys like Adam Scott and you know, the big tall guys that had him, you know, these beautiful everything. So he's a little bit kind of all. My dad loves camp Smith because he's like I loved he's a little
bit across the line the face and stuff. That golf swing. Did he have that golf swing from the start, did it evolve? Was it taught to him? And has there ever been a want or a thought to try and change it to make It's not that it's not orthodox because there's so many people. You know, in the eighties and nineties it swung like that, but the modern golfers now the club tends to point way more to the left. It's way more. You see more guys now laid off, yeah,
and flat and their arms. Then you do see kind of that a little bit across the line that Cam has.
Yeah, it's funny. Look, he didn't actually have most of that growing up. And if you watch, like with this shorter stuff, it's pretty neutral and fair online. Right. So it's as the club gets longer, and you know, especially with sort of driver and through with one of the things that happens is, you know his arms sort of
overtravel a little bit. That right arm gets a little bit behind him, and when that happens, he sort of has to side bend, and because he's a little shut and it's interesting because there's those arms travel a little bit longer, club face shuts a little bit more. And then as soon as he has to side bend with a shut club face, now he's swinging too far right
with a shut face right. So he's got both. So when Cam's hitting his fade like, he's a really good driver of the golf coll So for me, it's like really important that we hit the right shot. You know. Like I said, I think one of the things, being as good as he is is they tend to want to hit both ways and hit all the shots whereas and through the bag up until that top end, he's fine to do that, but once he gets to that driving through, he really needs to hit that little fade
to match up to what he does. And when he does that, it's fantastic. It's just you know, look where we are trying to get, you know, where he's maintaining a little bit more with where he's got a bit better structure of the arms and the body at the top. But I think, you know, being a small kid early on, that's where his extra speed felt like it came from. Is that a little bit longer armswing so again, and
he doesn't necessarily need it. It's just, you know, like a lot of them, it's hard to get rid of once you've you know, that's sort of been the pattern.
I'm sure. I mean, the modern golfer now is playing golf more somewhat one dimensionally. There is you know, Brandal Shamblee beats the drama that you've got to have all the shots. I've stuckn Andy Ogletree on about this. He said that he played with Tiger when he was an amateur and it was just amazing that he had all the shots. He wanted to hit the right shot at the right time. So, but very few players can move
it both directions. And I hear so many players that are struggling to get to that next level and they say, you know, tell me what type of you know, let me talk, tell me what type shot you hit. Yeah, you know, I like to move it both ways. And then you watch them and are not really good at drawing it, they're not really good at fading it. And I think so many players grant spending and norm they're trying to play. They're trying to get good at everything,
but they're not really good at anything. Their average to mediocre. And I think Cam is a great example in my opinion, if you're going to make it, and you're going to make it to winning majors and being a superstar, you have to be great and quantifiably great at something and it doesn't matter what it is. You can be a great green reader, you can be a great win player, but there has to be something that you anchor your game too. We all know that Cam to me is
very much like a Jordan Speith. You watch him pot if he's got a fifteen foot you're more surprised if he misses it than you are. You expect him to make it. Was he always a great potter and where does it come from for him?
So so I think one of the things, I'll sort of just backtrack a little bit, but like if you look last year, Camm, one of the things came doesn't get enough credit for his design play. You know, he was I think third in strokes gained approaching the green last year. We did a sort of analysis, like you know, from basically two hundred in like he was a long way ahead of the rest of the field, right, So, yeah,
that he's where Jenny short game. Obviously he's putting, you know, so our goal is if we can get in the fairway just to touch more. Very few, very few eat him. So but with the putting, you know, look, as a kid he was who was a good putter. We've always worked really hard on our basics. So you know, we use a putting mirror every single day that he warms up, you know, even you know, when I'm there, you know, I make sure he's aligned properly, So we're really diligent
with his alignment stuff. And then from there, you know, he's very neutral with the delivery of the putter, and you know it's hard to sort of mess that up a lot of the times, you know, So we're really sort of big on our basic structure. And then from there there's also the creativity and the you know, the
desire to hold part. So I think, again, going back to that competitiveness that I talked about earlier, you know, one of the biggest traits I see of the best players is their ability to hold that eight or ten foot of the part, you know, and I think there's definitely a you know, there's an innate skill that they have to be able to keep momentum and things like that, and Kem's always had that, you know, And I don't
know what it is. I mean, obviously he's technically very good, he's you know, he's all those things, but there's this innate ability to hold puts when they need to.
Yeah. And when you watch him putt, it looks it looks very natural, and his approach to putting is very natural. He doesn't look like someone that is very very mechanical. It doesn't look like he does a lot of drills. I think it's interesting what you said that a lot of the technical work is in what happens before he actually hits the pott.
Yeah.
And I think so many people listening to this are so over technique centric. Everything is technique, technique, technique, and he's doing the majority of his technical work, but he's making sure the car is set up. He's getting in the car, making sure all the mirrors are in the right place, making sure that seat's in the right place so he can get comfortable to drive the car. Yeah. And how much is cam putting ones? How much do
you think it's instinct? And how much do you think it's his practice and getting better.
I think they both working with each other. I think, you know, it's it's fine to be creative and have great instinct, but if you're not set up and aiming in the right spot makes it really difficult, right, So I think that you know, he's very diligent with how he gets into the ball. Like you said, he spends, when I say, a lot of time, but he's really diligent with how he aims the face, how he sets his body, you know, square to the face. You're seeing pretty his hand on his leg to sort of balance
himself out. Then he just sort of moves his left hand in and once he sort of said, you know, the other thing you'll see with his with his eyes tracing to the hole. He's got the you know, like all good parts, they have this real slow trace towards the whole. I'll hold that gaze and then they'll come back and then he sort of pulls the trigger and kind of just reacts to it. So I think, you know, and one of the things for us is, you know,
that hasn't changed for a long long time. So you know, he just and and this is the same with Cam the whole way through. He's very good at sticking to what we know works, you know, regardless of whether it works all the time, doesn't mean that we don't go you know, because we know we've got enough evidence now the data points that works pretty well. Right. So, and I think, you know, we talk about sort of his pieces of the puzzle, you know, what are all the
pieces of his puzzle? Right? There might be this not the same pieces that Dustin has or Brooks has or whoever, but they're his pieces, right and how do we sort of get them operating to the best of our ability as often as possible.
Well, I think that's one, to me, one of the strengths that Cam has because obviously there are going to be tournaments where Cam is playing with players and they're gonna, you know, Rory the Bombers, you know, they're going to run it past him, right, And it's always been something that I think is the strength of his that he doesn't really seem to be worried about that and he's not chasing speed. He's not it does he never comes across as someone that is chasing something that he doesn't have.
Like you said, he seems to be really really comfortable and confident in the toolbox that he has, and he has a lot of tools in the toolbox and he says, Okay, I don't have that tool, but I have these tools, and with these tools, I can make something pretty special.
Absolutely. You know. I think early on, you know, there was a little bit that we'd look at guys like Dustin and Brooks and go, well, when they're on, we can't compete. But the reality is, like you said, like Camp's skills set is just different. You know, it's no better or worse, it's just different. Right, So we've got really good at knowing what that is. Like I said, you know, he's one of the best in the world
from two hundred in. You know, when we're hitting the right shapes off the tea and you know he's making the right moves off the te you know, he's world class and you know, hard to be as we saw last year. So you know, I think it's just getting really good at knowing what you're you know, what you bring and if you know that that's good enough, then staying on track and sticking to you know, your way of doing things.
The breakout year last year players champion the Open champion. I mean, what an amazing accomplishment. Let's go back to the Open Championship. I think every I expected on that Sunday for Rory to birdie three out of the first four, put the foot down and kind of get that next major. It would have been a huge win in the kind of live kind of versus the PGA Tour thing. He didn't get it done, but I think the way that Cam played on that study, what do you remember about that?
And I've always said that when players that I've been lucky enough to be around that win major championships, there's something different about them that week and I can never put my finger on it. You know, we're just removed. Brooks led the Masters for three rounds. The difference between winning the week before in Orlando on live. He was different at the Masters, even though he didn't get the
job done, but he had a legit chance. But there was something different and I'm still trying to figure out what that was. Was there anything that you saw that week that made looking back on it, that you go that was just a little bit.
You know, the week before in Scotland, the first two rounds played okay early and then sort of on that second day, the wind got up a lot and he almost looked like missing the cut and kind of ground his way in and I think made the cut on the number or by one, I can't remember it is exactly, but only just made the cut and then played really, really nice on the weekend, hit the ball grade, everything was just you know, ended up running tenth that week
and there was just a different feel going from that weekend, and it was so important that he made that cut. I think that it sort of just led him into you know, those two rounds we got to St. Andrews. We didn't do much on the Monday, literally walked with a putter for a few holes and had a chip and apart.
And they see him do he's again a little bit of an old school throwback. You don't see that nowadays, right, You don't see you certainly don't see that from young kids right now. You know in there you know under you know what's camp hold this can down right. So he's in late twenties, but you don't see a lot of world class superstar players just going around a major with Potter. You'll see that sometimes and Djo always says, I don't get that, bro He's like, I don't understand
what guys are doing. So the fact that he's doing that when he's out there and he's just walking around with a potter, it's a major champion. What's the thought process behind this and what actually is he trying to achieve?
Okay, so first of all, yeah, he's not treating majors any different to a normal week. You know, I think a lot of guys going to majors they try and get there early, like you know, you see.
It's the one where you can overprepare.
Yeah, you know, and then guys are there and they've literally played their tournament before Thursday. Right. So Cam had a big weekend, you know, he played really nicely. Actually was feeling a bit off as well, but you know, just wanted to get a feel like there's almost talk we weren't going to do anything on Monday, right. So he's played there a number of times, so he felt
comfortable with that. But he says, look, let's just go for a walk and we'll take a wedge ind of putter, and so we just did a little bit for you know, four or five holes whatever it was, and then only played nine holes each of the next two days, so you know, I did a rain session before and a little bit after both days, and he was in and
out and ready to go. And then yeah, there was just this sense of calm the whole week, you know, like what you're talking about about something being different, like he it was a focused calm though, you know, like it was. I remember it was funny the so obviously led after the first two rounds, and then the third round it played quite nicely but didn't put as well. He had early and shot one over and walks in and looks at me and just goes, we're going to
the putting green. And this is like at nine point thirty at night, you know, you know, it's like over there, it's starting to get dark. And so we went to the putting green and it wasn't like it was you know, we need to fix, you know, but it's just wasn't
quite right. We need to do some work. And you know, as a coach, it's like, okay, this is your time, right, you know, it's like so and yeah, yeah, that's right, you know, And you know, for me it was just you know, the stroke had got fraction short on its stroke length and sort of has had to over accelerate the putter a little bit, and just was about six
inches under his speed all day, you know. So we just lengthened out the backstroke a touch, you know, got the putter head sort of crashing into the ball a little bit more, got the ball rolling a little bit, and you know, he said to me that night, he goes, I just need to feel it a little bit more into the back of the hole, don't I And I said, yep, perfect right, and then sort of reiterated that the next morning.
It was just like but like I said, it was his focus, sort of calm, and you know, because under stress, you know, most people get shorter, they get shorter and quicker and obviously don't execute as well. So all we did was, like I said, lengthen out that backswen a little bit, got the flow of the putterhead, you know a little bit better, and you know, you know, the rest is history, so to speak.
The up and down that he made on seventeen, in my opinion, it's one of the greatest up and downs in major championship history. I know you were out there walking around, talk me through what you're thinking in that moment as he's about to have to try and Okay, he's got to You're like, okay, he's got to get
this thing up and down yep to have it. What what are you thinking as a coach, because I've been in that situation before, you know, where a player is trying to win a major championship and I mean, I'm struggling to breathe. I don't know why always say I have no idea how these guys do it, because the stress that I feel just watching for them to be able to camp. So what do you think in there? Are you thinking he's going to get this up and now?
So I'll give you a bit of that. So we walked my son and I walked the front, well, the first ten holes right so you know those have been to Saint Andrews. There's a little loop down there towards the bottom end, and like it was just nuts, you know, And and Cam didn't Birdie nine, which was you know, one of your Birdie chants. I've been at that stage, you know you have to do and he was he was kind of still behind then and then when he didn't bertie that, it was like, oh, you know, I
hope that's not our chance. Sort of lost and anyway, Bertie's ten, and I looked at my son and I said, what do you reckon? We do? Do we try and fight the crowds? What do we go back to the you know, the play of dining and watch it there. And as you know, that's about a three kilometer walk back to back to get there. So anyway, so him and I run back basically and by the time we get there birty to eleven, and he has had a little short one on twelve, which is a birdie chance
and makes bertie on twelve. And then Rory doesn't birdie twelve, and then he birdie's thirteen on the back of that, which again is not another real birdie hole. And then when he birdied fourteen the par five, I looked at our sports side and I'm like, shit's get real here, Like you know this is this is actually always that.
Moment where, unless they're leading, right when you work with the player and they're chasing, there's that moment to where as a coach you have that kind of you look and you start doing the math and you look at the holes that they've played. Maybe the leader didn't take advantage of it, and then all of a sudden you're like, okay, well we now have a he's got a legit chance with five holes left to win a Claire.
Jock exactly right then chance. So then on sixteen, you know, some of the officials come and got our team and took us up behind the eighteenth green, you know, just obviously in case case he wins, and so we're sort of standing up there. So we're watching the put on seventeen from the back of the eighteen, which you can see,
you yeah, know what's going on. You can see him, but you can't see the whole right, So obviously he hits the part and the next minute of the crowd sort of goes nuts, and you know, obviously it went in and then we are looking at each other going okay, this is really and then you know, hit a great drive up aideen you know, to hit it where he did and you know, to tupart from there like I mean, you know, would have been really easy for him to you know, hit something a bit shorten down the left
and try and pitch it up and down, and but to hit the driver and to have the you know, the balls to basically you know, keep trying to make birdies you know when it cams things when he's in that moment, is he's just trying to keep making berties and if somebody's good enough to catch him, great, But he's you know, like we said earlier, he's trying to move forward, right So and then obviously, you know, I think that part that he actually hit on eighteen was
just as good as the one on seventeen, you know, to put it up there to a couple of feet and you know, like you said, I'm standing there thinking I couldn't even hold it, you know, let alone you know, knock that in. So probably why he's the one doing and you and I are standing here talking on a podcast, right so, I think, you know, it was an amazing feeling.
And then obviously watching Rory come down the last and you know, would have had to hold a webshot and obviously didn't, and you know, just to look around and think, you know, for me, it was such a surreal moment, like I'm standing on the back of the eighteenth green at St. Andrew's, you know, looking down as the crowd's
coming up the fairway. You know, obviously you know it didn't work out for Rory, but you know, the player that I've coached since the age of ten, you know, is winning one hundred and fiftieth Open at St. Andrew, like shot thirty the back nine, Like he literally couldn't have written a better script. And you know, just had that moment where I'm just looking around thinking, if this is it for me, I'm good, you know, like I said,
I hope he wins more. But if this is all it is, I can retire pretty happy on this one.
He seems to be one of those players that gets to Augusta National. We just came from there, you know, didn't probably play the way he wanted to this year, but he has a comfort level at Augusta. What do you think it is about Augusta that Cam likes because you wouldn't obviously the putting is a huge asset on there. But he was never a player that everybody went I was games made for Augusta's name Guss and then all of a sudden, here's a couple of years where we're like for a gust Yeah.
I think you know again, those big players they relish, you know that situation. I remember he played with Dustin so twenty eighteen, I think, and you know, they sort of went around the front nine just sort of lumbering a little bit, and Dustin was the number one player in the world at the time, and I remember, you know,
them talking at Pinner talking about afterwards. He turned around to us and said, let's get moving, like you know, here he is, you know, still at that time, probably relatively not unknown, but you know, to you know, unless you're a goal for you didn't know who came. Swift was right, and you know he's telling the world number one, let's get moving, like, let's give this a shake, and he shoots thirty the back nine ends up running fifth.
You had a part for twenty nine on the last, you know, like just when he gets in that moment. And so so that's one thing. The second thing that's massive for Cam is I think the creativity that Augusta asks, you know, it just really engages him and like, you know, he loves seeing where he's got to land and how it's going to feed that, and especially his short game. You know, I think his control over his flight and his spin and I might be biased, but is as
good as anybody I've ever seen. And I think around there, if you do that, well, you know, you can control
the ball, right. The guys that don't you know, you get shown up pretty quickly, so I think, you know, the creativity obviously, the putting on those greens is you know, is very difficult, but you know, also his stuff around the greens is really really important as well, So you know, I think that's you know, all those things is one of the reasons why he's you know, he's sort of built for that place.
Well, given the type of player he is, in the type of game he has. It's going to sound weird, but I think Augusta allows Cam to play golf, which I think is a huge strength of this because you have to play the game. There is an ort to playing golf, absolutely, and I think everybody wants to be
a tactician. I think Cam around us allows him to somewhat be an artist and kind of shape his way around that golf course and visually, I would imagine he likes that because that's the way he sees golf, regardless of whether he's out Augusta or not.
Yeah, absolutely, and it does. It engages him. And you know, so the more you know, like any player, the more focused thing they are and what they're doing, the better they're going to be But like you said, for Somewhere, like Cammy, he wants to be creative. He wants to
hit different. You know. It's like he short game, the amount of times I'll see him at a shot, and I like, even nowadays, I'm like, I didn't see that, you know, Like, I mean, I've been around him forever and I know what he sees most of the time. But sometimes I'm like, man, you know that's next level, right.
I had a guy over, Michael Nephews from Gears, you know, and he Michael was here this week, and you know, he got to watch and he said, I knew it was good because I'd seen it on TV, and he goes, but watching in the flesh, he goes, my god, that is something else. He goes like, just the quality of the strike, the way he controls his spin, all those things, and I think that's that creativity that comes to the full ran Somewhere Local Gusta.
Obviously, cam was one of the guys that made the decision to go to Live. I'm sure that was a huge decision. I mean, I got three players currently playing on Live. But it was a massive decision for dj DJ after he won the Masters the COVID Masters. He didn't play good for two years, and I think he would admit and has kind of admitted. But those of us on his team knew that decision on should I go to Live, should I not go to live? It weighed on him for two years and it massively affected
his golf once he made the decision. Obviously, the way DJ played on Live last year, I think he freed up and the decision that Cam made a lot of people scratched their heads. Why do you think he did it? And what conversations did you have with him? And what role that what I mean, did you say, Hey, these are the pros, the cons, this is what I think you should do. This is what top us through that whole decision.
So I think, you know, he spoke to a number of people about it. I think, you know, let's not trugcate the fact that the money was a big driver for all of them, right, But besides that, you know, for Cam, I think the team atmosphere, you know. I remember, like when Cam was coming through as an amateur, you know, so we play a lot of inner state golf here in Australia. So and I remember once he got invited to there's a junior event, the top fifty juniors play Sage Valley.
Yep, Sage Valuer Junior inportation, great tournament.
Top fifty j Yeah, like great opportunity, right, Cam chose to play the Junior Interstate Series at Cabra Matta Golf Club. Now not knocking cabrat you know, but it's not Sage Valley, right, And.
Every junior in the world's trying to play in Siege.
Exactly right, and if you can qualify, Yeah, And he chose to play as the captain of that junior team for his state, right. And I think that team mentality is something like you know, if you have a little Presidence Cup, you know, World Cup with Mark, you know, like he loves that stuff, right. So I think the team atmosphere was a big thing. I think the schedule to be able to be home more was a big
thing as well. And then you know the team ownership, you know, to be a part of something new and exciting that you know, like is a bit of a gamble, no question. But you know, I think if you look at what does this look like in ten years time, you know that that franchise model that you know, that f one sort of model. I think, you know, you're going on Okay, I think this is going to be amazing and I want to be a part of it. So there's there's a heap of pieces to that puzzle
that made it, you know, the decision. You know, I think I get from a PJA and an American point of view, that's a much harder decision than an Aussies. You know, it really is, because you know, we you know, you talked about the tool. We used to have a tour here and unfortunately the back end of that used to be when all the players from America came.
It was always November December, yep. So we used to have weather down here. The US guys could come if they wanted to.
Yes, so, and then once the US sort of lengthened their schedule, that stopped all their guys coming home. So I think, you know, and that's why I think it's been so well received here, because we've just been starved of that golf that we used to get on a regular basis. So I think there was a number of things that I said that that made that decision for him. And look, you know now they couldn't be happier.
Yeah, and I think if you look at the set, I think a lot of people that are critical of Live. I would say, in my opinion, maybe it'll change after the Masters, But pre Masters, the majority of the people that were anti Live have never come to a tournament. They've never been a part of the Live ecosystem as the players that you and I work with are. And we've all been a part of the PGA to our ecosystem for a number you know, I've been working with
players on the PGA tour for twenty years. We know what that ecosystem's like, we know what that feels like. And I think the interesting thing is I tell people all the time that you know, the Live the strength for a lot of the guys on Live is that I don't think people that aren't a part of the the ecosystem don't understand the team concept. They think, oh yeah,
everybody showed up at Augusta and they had to. You know, the amount of questions Cam got in the press conference at Augusta about the fact that he was wearing team logos. I'm like, every player that comes to Augusta National is wearing a logo of something, whether they're on a Live team, or it's a corporate team that's paying them a clothing team effectively that is paying them a manufacturer. Everybody has
that the team thing is huge. Do you think that Cam also looked at I've got an opportunity to play with good friends and people that I really really like and want to be around all the time, and it just makes my job. Well, I think it's been crazy when I say to people, everybody looks like they're having fun out on people? Are it? Guys look like you're having a lot of fun out there? I'm like, yeah, and what's wrong with that?
Yeah?
Like every sport, every team sport there has a player that will say, listen, I want to go to that team because I grew up with guys on that team and I want to play for that team because that's where my boys are. And I just don't understand why golf. Everybody wants golf to not be like that.
But I think there's a lot of things in that. I think, you know, like you talk about the fun aspect, like you know you're going to work for a long time, right, Like, why shouldn't it be fun? You know? And it doesn't mean that the guys are not trying their bums off, you know, like I think people sort of think that if you're having fun, then you can't be being serious about your job. Those guys, I mean, for me, are working probably harder than they did when they're at on
the PGA tour, right. And again for me, it's not even about the versus PGA tour. The e vect is like you said, Cam gets to spend and you know most of his traveling year with good mates, right, They're all playing for a common goal. They get, you know, like I said that, like you got like Jed, like he said, he gets to help bring Jed through onto tour.
Yeah, I mean Cam has an unique opportunity as a twenty nine year old to take a kid like Jed Morgan and be a mentor to him. You know, you're trying to mentor kids. And we're not in our thirties, right, We're not in our early twenties. Right. You have an opportunity, as a twenty nine year old, as a major champion, as a players champion, to say to a young you know Australian players, hey, come on my team, yeah right, and I'll show you how to do.
This exactly right, you know, and that's that's so unique. Like yeah, you look at it like Mark and Matter a little bit older than Cam and they've been out on tour and you know, like I mean, asaid have got great relationships and especially Mark and Cam you know, pre the live stuff, you know, they were great mates. You know, so why not go? You know, like why
not do it? And again I think it's about part you know, whilst, like a lot of things, at the start, people will want to find reasons why not to you know, I think the longer this is going on, you know,
people just want to be involved. And if you look at like this week, you know, the amount of Ripper GC hats that are walking around, like I think it's amazing, and all of a sudden, that's what you know, like you said before the young kids start to buy into my son, you know, just bought a live jumper for one hundred and twenty five dollars or whatever it was, and like he's in you know, like he's looking at Cam going you know, I want to be on that team, you know.
So and I'm sure you're experiencing this as well with the amount of young players that you work with, not only from a junior standpoint, but people trying to play in other professionals. What I don't think a lot of people realize now is I have high school kids, high school parents, college kids, college parents, and then kit players trying to play saying, listen, what's the pathway to play on lift? Because I don't think that people that aren't involved in it, they just see it, they say it's
an exhibition. There are a peop well that they are coming to me now that are saying, listen, that would be where I would want to play. And I'm sure this week in Australia you'll start to see people now. And I say this all the time, Grant, I'm pro player.
The reason why I want live to succeed is you and I work with professional athletes and professional golfers, and I think and believe professional golfers and professional athletes should have the exact same opportunities that every other athlete playing every other sport has to try and make as much money as possible based off of your talent.
Yeah, well, I think, And that's one of the things I found interesting. You know, like a lot of people sort of bag that everybody gets paid, right because in golf, you know, we've always had cuts. We've always had people that miss out. And you know, and I sort of say to people, it's like if you went to work one week, right, and you turned up at work and
you did a pretty good job. Week's work, right, you paid for your hotel to be there, you'd bought somebody along, like you caddy and all this, and it's petially about five or six grand to be there, and you know, but the boss comes out and says, you know what, you were good this week, but you weren't good enough,
so I'm not going to pay you. But come back next week and have another go, right, and if you're good and if you're good enough, we'll give you a little bit more, give you a little more, yeah, you know, and like, yeah, you can be a backup pitcher for the Dodgers and not picture a game and still get paid. Right. These guys, yep, they're paid entertainment, right, and they they should be paid, you know. And I think that's what we've got to change, that mindset that these guys deserve
to be paid. They work hard, They spend a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of effort to get to where they want to get to where they're trying to get to and you know they should be rewarded for that.
I'm talking to j Or Smith. I had them on my podcast, but privately, j are you know two NBA championships. He was saying, we were talking about live happening, and he's like, I just don't get it because he's like, there's guys in the NBA that play four to five minutes a game and they're making twenty five million. And he said, and if the team makes the playoff, they never play, like they'll never play because they're they're just a position guy. The only time they would play is
if somebody came in and you know, got hurt. The money. Obviously, Cam's one of the guys. He got the bag, he got life changing money. Have you noticed any change in him?
Not one bit.
But also the thing that everybody says is nobody's practicing. They've all got in the bag. They've all just taken their foot off the gas. They're not competitive. You noticed any difference. He did say that he came down probably for the first time in probably ten years, he was able to come down and have a proper three to four month off season hang with his boys, see the family and just be a normal human being.
Yep. Yeah. Look as far as his effort, no, like, he's as professional as ever and probably wants it more, you know, to show people that they are at that level. And I think, you know, the biggest thing I think at the moment for Cam is just, you know, is an adjustment in him being one of the team owners and the team captains and everything that goes with that. I think, you know, there's a lot more constraint on
his time now, you know. I think there's a lot more expectation for him to do certain things, and I think that plays its part in performance, you know. But when it's golf time, he's all in. You know, he's still doing the work. He's he's not shirking anything, that's for sure.
Lastly, pro mullet anti mullet because obviously one of the great things about Live this week. There's a T shirt you can see it online. I'm social. It's kind of outline with the hair. I there's no way he can cut the hair now, right, I mean, there's just no way that he can get rid of.
The mullet look. I think you know, it started as a joke, you know, and if you look back earlier. You know, he sort of said it at the time. Yeah, yeah, my mum hates it girlfriend, you know, but the boys love it, you know, And that's where it sort of started. And that sort of typifies Cam and I think, but now, you know, like, hey, he's played so good since he's had it, and then b you know, it's part of who he is. So I'd struggled to think that he's
going to cut anytime soon. He did say at one stage, if I win a major, I'll cut it, and then as soon as that happened, he went, now, I'm not cutting that say, I can't see it going anywhere just yet. And you know, look like you know, just about every kid I coach, including my son, has had it a mullet at some stage in Australia.
Australia with the mullet, because I've never been a place in I mean, I grew up I'm fifty four in a couple weeks. In a week I grew up in the eighties, every kid in my high school had a mullet, right, I mean, it was an old school thing. Then the mullet went away. What is it in OZ with the mullet and the cheesy mustache.
Well, to be honest, you know, like again I'm not much, but I'm a huge younger than you, and we never had it early on, you know, and then all of a sudden it came back and it was actually a lot of the rugby league players started having it in Australia and then I said, Cam kind of did it as a joke. And then like now golfers have got it, and you know, like I'd coach you know, at least a dozen kids that have mullets, you know, and it's crazy, like everybody goes, oh to be coached by you, do
you have to have a mullet? And you know, like yeah, so look I think it's you know, one of the things with Ozzie's is you know they're quite comfortable taking the you got to say the mickey out of each other and yeah, I said, we'd said taking the piece out of each other, you know. But yeah, so look, we don't take ourselves too seriously generally, and you know that's evident. Boy Kim's DOGI mustache and mullets. You know, I think it's here to say.
Grant, I can't take thank you enough for talking to us. And when you work with a kid as a ten year old not you know what golfers are like, they're never gonna blame themselves and they'll switch coaches. The fact that Cam is is and not only that, the fact that Cam has kept you on his team and you're so much a part of his professional life and his personal life. But he's also done this now living in America, it's not like you see him on a regular basis.
Now you've got to come to him. And the fact that he's kept you on his team through thick and thin, I think says a tremendous amount about him. But I also think it says a hell of a lot about you as a person, as a player, as a coach, and that player coach relationship, and it's it's really cool to watch, and I think you're doing a hell of a job with him and a lot of the other players you're you're working with. So thanks for taking time to talk to us. So that was grand Field and
a really good pod. Lots and lots of stuff to take in there. And you know, you take a player from a ten year old and turn him into a major championship. I can't imagine what that must have meant to be at St. Andrew's for Grant and his team and the team around camp to see that happen and to get I've been lucky enough to be a part of that. And when you watch a player that you've worked with win a major championship, it's it's just an amazing,
amazing feeling lived. Last week I was down in Australia, the Aussie fans, I just I just can't say enough about the way they came out. You can tell that it has been a long time since golf fans in Australia have seen that type of field, those type of players, and they showed up in full force. It was one of the coolest weeks that I've been a part of in my professional career, and just to see the enthusiasm
it really was something really really cool. I know all the players felt it as well, and I think one of the winners last week, Yeah, I think Live made a step forward, if you like, But I think the big winners last week were the golf fans in Australia who got to see some really cool golf and it was a hell of a week and hopefully we'll get to get back down there again. Next year. Thanks everyone
for listening. I know we took last week off. I've been on a pretty brutal travel schedule lately, but we've got some really good pods. I've got a lot of good stuff coming, and you guys are gonna have some good stuff to listen to in the coming weeks. Son of a Butcher comes to you every Wednesday. We will see you next week.