Gary Woodland

and the way he thinks about golf. Um, he's just kind of thought of his guy that hits golf ball a long way. But I can promise you and there's a lot more to him. But before we get to that, this episode is being brought to you by Cobra Puma Golf. UM. If you've listened to the pod, you know that I'm a huge fan of the Cobra Puma brand. I've been

with them for a number of years now. I'm excited that they are not only back as a partner of the pod, but also teaming up with me to bring some of their ambassadors on his guests, and we're starting with Gary Woodland. Um. You'll hear us talk about the relationship and you know his kind of philosophy behind UM his equipment made a big change to move to Cobra this year. They have three new drivers out, the Cobra Aerojet. UM. I put it in the bag, Um, I love it.

I think it performs really well. There's three models. There's the Aerojet which is the low spin, high launch, the Aerojet l S which is the low spin and low launch, and then the most forgiving driver in the line, the Aerojet Max. That's going to kind of give you a blend of everything and give you a lot of forgiveness. Everybody that I teach is always asking to try and get hit the ball further. They want to hit it further, they want more speed, they want more power, and that's

something the arrow Jet driver delivers. And a few of the new features behind that are the p w R Bridge waiting. What is that. Well, they positioned the wait forward and they fully suspended this pw R bridge weight design right in the front and it allows for more flexibility in the face and the soul, and that's going

to give you faster ball speeds. They've got advanced aerodynamics. UM. Everybody's trying to move the golf club faster, and the way the golf club is designed UM has a huge, huge part of that, and I think that's where Cobra is really kind of at the forefront in their aerodynamics UM, because everybody's trying to get faster club head speeds and

everybody wants to hit the golf ball further. And then the PowerShell hot face that's going to help the face and the golf ball across wherever you hit it, UM, if you hit it off the toe, if you hit it in the middle, if you hit it off the heel. They've done a great job with the new power shell to to have the miss hits go further. And that's what everybody's trying to do with their driver. UM. If you miss it, you want the miss to stay and play, and you want to miss to still go a long way.

You can learn more and check out the erage at drivers at Cobra golf dot com. Pre Orders are open today and all three drivers are available for purchase on February tent so huge, huge thanks to the Cobra Puma team. UM they're great partners, and um, check out the new drivers. I think everyone is going to be excited about them. And so let's get to the interview with Gary Woodland G dub your fifteen year on the PGA tour. I mean that that's just crazy, isn't it. Well? I feel it.

I feel I feel like I've been out there for a hundred so, um, it is crazy to think back when I mean, when I came out, you know, you're looking up to these other guys, like, man, these guys have been out here a long time, and now it's like I am that old guy. I'm the guy that's been out here a long time. So um, it's cool though, you know, I've learned a lot, but it's uh, it's been a good ride for sure. So any time you start a new year, I mean, you have no idea

what's gonna happen. You made the choice. Um, a lot of guys do this equipment change this year, switching from Wilson to cobra Um. Obviously there's a lot that goes into that. For everyone listening. I think sometimes everybody just thinks that the money play. You know, I'm just gonna take the money. I'm gonna cash out and make a change. But we've seen that work UM in reverse sometimes, and I know for most of the players there's a lot more into it than than just the money grab aspect

of it. That a lot of people think, what was the decision and what was behind the decision to make this change UM to Cobra. Yeah, I've I've done the money grab before. Like I said, I've been out here fifteen years. I've done that a couple of times, probably throughout my career. And UM. I was very happy with Wilson. The people there UM were amazing. Obviously. I have great relationships with them, and I never thought i'd leave UM. And to be honest with you, I had flexibility with

my woods in the past. I started playing some Cobra Woods at the end of the year and I fell in love with him. And I obviously have a relationship with Puma, who owns Cobra. I've been with Puma, you know, really since two thousand and eighteen, UM, so I have a close relationship with them as well, and it it kind of just went off from there. Ben who's the tour rep, who I think is absolutely amazing. I trust him to death. UM He's helped me in the past,

even when it wasn't Cobra stuff. He's helped me with my stuff. So I trust him and I have a lot of respect. And that's just where it started to grow. And then I started, you know, I hitting the irons, I tested the wedges, I tested the potter, I've tested it all and it it just it just felt right, um in the woods. Like I said, you know, I led driving distance last week. I didn't play well, but I led driving this. That's the first time I've done

that a long time. Um. So the stuff is just really really good, and it's something that I feel like will allow me to get back to where I want to be and play the way I want to play. You mentioned Ben Showman. He builds all the clubs for for Cobra. That relationship that that you guys have on the PGA tour, I mean the guy does it build your equipment. I mean it's a it's they are the pit crew of of your Formula One race car, right,

I mean you have to have a great relationship with them. Um. You also did for as long as you hit it, you're you've got very very interesting launch conditions. Um, you hit down on your driver way more than the majority of the guys out there. So somebody like a Rory McElroy, I mean, you couldn't be any further away from the launch conditions that Rory has. Where Rory's hitting up on it, he's launching it high. You've always tended to have a

lot of that hit down on it. Um. The process to get you in a driver, UM, talk to me about that whole, from the beginning to the end. What is that procesct? I think everybody listening will be fascinated to hear what goes into that. UM. It's a lot of trial and error, and that's where I think that trust between the guys building your clubs and making it really does come into play. There's no doubt about that.

That's that's a good point. And you throw on top of that is I know hardly anything about golf clubs, so that that doesn't help you. Know, you talk about like guys that Ricky Fowler, who I think no more than anyone. I think he is very knowledgeable about his equipment. And I think that's one great thing about Cobra as You've got Ricky in there helping with stuff. I think Jason Duffner's very knowledge about stuff, and then you got Bryson on top of that, who is obviously very knowledge

about equipment and and everything he talks about. But you throw that in there. Ben has a lot to deal with, and you throw the R and D team in there. Um, so you fast forward back to me. I like stuff really heavy too, so limits a lot of this stuff that I can test. I I have a lot of lag, I have a lot of downcock. I like that heavy club so I can feel it at the top. I want to be able to feel that in my transition, so that eliminates a lot of chefts that I can test. Um. Ben,

obviously it's been around a long time. He's dealt with these guys who have a lot of questions. I've kind of been the guy that they just throw stuff in front of me and I swing and hit it, um and hope it works out. Ben's helped me kind of understand what I'm trying to do. I'm so now I'm now I'm starting asking questions, Hey, what about this shaft? What do you think about if we tip this a little more, a little less because it is nice to send it right, I'll like we all like to send it.

But for me, I like to have that little fairway finder. I like to tee it down really low and just kind of get out the very similar you know Tiger used to the back in the day. DJ does it now phenomenal, Tie it down low, get the golf ball and play and let the rest of my game take over. I need two conditions really for a driver. I need one that I can send high and I need it to t low. So that's where you start messing with

tipping in the shaft um changing the loft. The one great thing about the arrow jet driver with Cobra is I'm able to go up in loft, which I'm usually a very low loft driver. I'm usually around six and a half seven degrees. I'm up over eight degrees a loft right now. That only helps me with dispersion with my misses. So it's been I've learned a lot more in the last couple of months, and I haven't a long time about golf clubs, but it has been a process.

I did change shafts last tweak um to a lighter shaft that I haven't played in a long time, but we were working with tipping. We've tried different stuff, um, and I credit been for that, and obviously you've got track Man and all these other technology quads and all this stuff out there that helps. But it is trial and error, and then you get it on the range, you gotta get it on the golf course, and once you get it on the golf course, you gotta put

it in competition. So it is a process. But I feel like we're getting towards the end of that and everything's getting down in where we want it, which is nice. I think one of the big differences get between what you guys do on the tour level and what the average golfer. I consider everybody that's not on the PGA Tour playing competitive and average golfer. So there's you guys

and then there's the rest of us. I think the average golfer goes into fittings and they're they're looking to try and improve their good shots, whereas all the fitting that you guys do specifically on tour g dub with the driver. Um, it's about fitting for the miss. It's about giving you a golf club that you can keep on the golf course and the miss and that's one

of the things that that we always go right. Well, you say, when you're watching you guys hit balls and you're getting fit, or when you're working in your swing, you'll you'll hear you guys, or or someone like me or the fitter, say hey, if that's the miss then then we're gonna be in a pretty good place. There's no doubt about that. And you look at you look at my game how I transition. When I came out on tour fifteen years ago, I was one, if not

the longest guy out there at the time. You're fast forward now, at that time, I hit it a long way. I had no idea where it was going, but I hit it a mile. I had to learn. Everybody, now, once you see me hit stingers, that's all they want to see. Hit the stinger. Hit the stinger, put the driver away, hit the singer. Well, I had that. I had to learn that shot so I could get the golf ball and play. That's and that's where you're talking

about the misses. Even when the driver was all over the place, I had to have something to get the golf ball and play. And that's where that stinger came about. So the misses is a huge part of it. I'm a usually typically a higher spin guy than a lot of guys with the driver, because if I want that ball to land in the fairway, I don't want to bounce and I wanted to stay in the fairway. UM, So typically I like a little little higher spin which

keeps that dispersion a little tighter. As well. You mentioned Dustin Johnson. You play a lot with DJ. He's one of your boys. I mean the differences you said about the weight of your golf clubs because of the way that you swing. UM. You pick up your driver versus DJ's driver, and I mean yours feels like a sledgehammer compared to what people would think his driver would feel like. It's six four long arms, long legs with the same

type of speed that that he has and you have. UM. The shaft is a huge part of when you're switching golf clubs, getting that shaft to match what the head is doing and when you find that combo UM the optimal. I mean, give us an example, what do you want to see the driver spinning at? What do you want to see it launching at? UM the work that you and Ben do UM with the Cobra team, what do you want those numbers kind of the sweet spot for

you right now. Yeah, I'm with spin which I think is high um and I like it launching over ten. I used to launch it a lot lower than that. The Cobra drive, ever, has allowed me to launch it a little higher at that spin. It usually took me launching it around nine to get the lower to get the spin down to where I wanted it. So I'm launching a little over ten um. I can get it to eleven sometimes and that spin. And you talk about DJ, I mean, DJ and I play a lot of golf together.

I can't hit his driver, he can't hit mine. And that's the funny thing is our ball flights. We both like to play cuts. We both hit similar shots, but it's just the way we go about it's completely different. And I mean, to me, everybody talks about people driving the golf ball. I think he's one of the best

that's ever done it. It is fascinating to watch him hit driver on holes that you know, maybe don't set up for it, and he just has the confidence that to hit that little butter cut out there, and it's it's super impressive. You know. It's interesting that I don't think everyone listening realizes that you can pick up DJ's driver and can't hit it, and he can pick up your driver and can't hit I don't think everyone listening

realizes how specific and different the equipment is. For for you guys, Um you mentioned that that four kind of hundred. I mean just for everyone listening. You know, DJ his sweet spot is anywhere between two thousand two hundred with the spin. If he starts spinning it in the range that you're trying to spin it now, he's going to

hit it all over the planet. Um, confidence was you know when you put a new driver in, when you put new equipment in, is it hard on the golf course if you go out, like you said last week, you drove it, you lead in driving distance and you didn't play good. I mean there's always that tendency. I think when any golfer puts new equipment in their bag, it's it's how hard is it not to just go, Okay, well,

it's the equipment. It's not me, because that's an easy one, right because in your brain you're like, Okay, didn't I'm making some changes. I'm not shooting the scores I want. It's got to be the equipment. You guys are all the same. It's never. It's never. It's never, you guys, it's never. I mean, it's gotta be the equipment, the caddy. I mean, it's got to be something. But you know, for me with the equipment is I'm pretty comfortab well.

From the standpoint I put the driver and played before before I had signed with Cobra, So I've been playing the driver for a couple of months now. I'm very confident with it. And for me when it comes to driving, last week I did not play well like we talked about, but I was eight and driving first and distance. For me to play well and for me to be successful, I had to drive the golf ball well, and that's where I struggled. The last couple of years. I have

not driven the golf ball like I want to. So that was a huge step for me. That's a huge confidence boost for me going forward. I have some other things obviously I need to tighten up, but the driving, for me, if I can drive the golf ball like that, I'm gonna get and play the way I want to be and get to where I want to be. So um, that was a that was a positive from last week from a from a not playing well weak g W A goals guide. You do you have goals in your head?

Do you write goals down? I remember Brooks telling me he would always kind of go to the beach at the end of of a year, at the beginning of the year and just go down by himself one morning and take a notebook or piece of paper and he'd write down his goals. I mean a t um Justin Thomas has been great, I think on social media, putting out like the notes that he has in his phones

of what his goals are. Are you one of those type of players or do you just kind of just say, hey, you know, I'm just gonna try and you know, see what happens this year. I'm a very visual person, so I do have goals. I do have written down, and

I do look at them. I have them in my bathroom mirror, so I see them on a daily basis, and for me that's just a reminder, right that puts things in perspective, especially weeks last like like last week, when I don't play well, you're frustrated, to get mad, you get home, I look at the mirror and I see, okay, this is what I have to do to be successful. I have the goals. I had the process to achieve those goals. Now let's let's reset, Let's find the positives

from last week. We'll take the driving that was a positive, and let's move on and let's go get better for next week. It's hard sometimes if I don't have goals and I start playing bad like I did last week, I can start dwelling on that, and then it festers into not playing well to three weeks in a row, and then it turns into a bad year. So I'm a very goal oriented, very visual person. I need to see them. I have them on my phone as well, and I can scroll through if I don't have it

up on my mirror when I'm traveling. Um, but yes, I need to see those on a on a daily basis. Any uh, any sharing on what any of the goals are. You don't have to give us the big ones, but give us just a not a I think goals and the reason why I say that, I think goals are really really specific to players, and I think you know I've asked. I've I've known Brooks for over a decade now, and I've asked him sometimes what his goals are He'll

tell me some of the other ones. But he said to me before, Hey, my goals are kind of you know, they're sacred to me. But are there any like ones that you'd be willing to share with us? From a game standpoint, you know things that you want to try and truth. Are you looking at where you are in strokes gained putting? Um? Are you looking at greens and regulation? What are some of the things that you're looking in

to try and change. Yeah, I mean, obviously have goals from a personal standpoint and how I want to operate my team and whatever in my life and personal But from a golf standpoint and performance standpoint, I mean obviously Tour championship, obviously Ryder Cup, etceter or stuff like that. I'm not huge on performance side because I think if I play well and take care of myself, all that stuff takes care of itself. But for me, I know to be successful, I sat down, I have people that

I work with. From a stat side, I know for me to be successful of fairways with a driver, I know that's I'm going to be successful. I know if I can gain strokes from four to eight feet putting, I'm gonna be successful. So it's little things like that I have throughout the bag. I have iron play, I have wedge play, I have short game, I have the putting from forty eight ft. And the driving is a big one for me. If I can hit sixty percent

of my fairways, that's gonna be a big deal. If I can hit with a driver, I'm gonna be very, very successful. So, UM, it's similar to that. There's obviously a lot that goes into it. And then through each goal, I have a process how do I achieve that? How do I do that in practice? How do I how do I get better at that? Um? And then obviously that's a process. I sit down with my coaches, we go over it. They have to hold me accountable as well. UM. So it is a it is a big process. But

I feel like each year it changes. Each year something different, um. But this year it's a lot focused on driving and and putting. From you mentioned your coaches, two of which have been on the podcast before. We'll start with Phil Kenyon. Um. I think I've had Phil on the podcast before. I think Phil Um, I think he's as good as there is when it comes to putting. I like his approach. What have you done with Phil and how has he

helped you? How has he maybe changed your approach? And and what is the work that you've done, um, and what is the work you are doing with your putting to try and and and help you achieve those goals that you're trying to achieve. Yeah, Phil and I started in two thousand and eighteen. Um, I We're playing Carnousti British Open. It was Saturday round. I hit sixteen seventeen greens. I shot over par like I hit it unbelievable and I was losing my mind. Steinberg is my agent. He

was there when I'm scoring. He's like, you gotta sit right here. You gotta work with Phil Kenny. And I'm like, I don't even I didn't even know Phil. I mean, I knew who he was, but I don't know him. And I'm like, he tells a funny story because Steiny calls him and he answers the phone, and Steiny never calls Phil right, he never reaches out. And he thought he was gonna get fired because he works with Justin

Rose as well. He thought I could one guarantee you that when when when Phil kenyons looking his phone and it says Mark Steinberg coming up. He's thinking, I'm about to get rinse from Justin Rose. I know it. I know it, and he answers it and you know, and he's like, I need you on the Pudding Green right now. And so he comes over there and he's like, I need you to work with Gary and it's like, okay, you know, it's Saturday of a major championship too. I mean,

and not only he's working with Francesco's leading. I mean, it's there's obviously a lot goes into the story, but the one thing that he did with me is he had the benefit I had worked with Pete Cowen, I had worked with He obviously had talked to Steiny, he had talked to my cad he Butchy who he knew, and they told him not to give me too much information. And I think that was a huge start. And you know we've worked together. You know, I just don't do

well if I have too much. And Phil Kenyon he knows more than anyone I think when it comes to putting, so he has all that knowledge. So he started with me so slow, and we started bit by bit, changing little things at a time. We do something for a couple of weeks, we'd come back and work on something new.

And it was a relationship that was was different because I didn't know him, like I said, when I went in and you know, like before you and I, before your dad, whoever, I've known these guys before I started working with him. I didn't know Phil and I just kind of thought he was was a golf dork or whatever you want to say. And we're on fast forward. The next year, Augusta were on the pudding Green on Tuesday and I didn't feel good with my putting and I I can get pretty quiet, and I can get

pretty defensive and pretty angry. Sometimes it's always it's when I when I get in that mood, I'm in that mood. And I was in that mood on Tuesday, and it was I was frustrated and I said something about, yeah, don't know what I said, and he started. He started mother f and me on the putting green and this is at a gust and it was on Tuesday, and I sit there and I'm like, since that day, since that conversation, my relationship with him has completely changed. Now.

I love the guy to death. I respect the heck out of him, but I needed him to put me in my place and he did that. And you know, fast forward two months later, I win the US Open. I finished I don't know what I finished at a guest. I've finished top ten at the p g A the next month, and then I win the month after that. It changed everything with me and him, and uh, he's

one of my my closest friends now. Respect the heck out of my talk to him on a daily basis just about putting and even like weeks when I don't put well, it's he takes it personally, you know, Like we had a long talk yesterday because I putted a horrendous last week. And I love that about him. Um, he's he's fully invested. We've done a lot. We've changed the way I read greens. We've changed the way but my stroke completely. But when I set up the grip um,

but it's been a process. It's been four years, five years and the aching um and uh, yeah, I love the guy to death. You mentioned um you're the coach. Uh my dad, butch Armond, I mean you've gone, You've gone back and forth with Butche, You're back in with Butchy. Um. I'm always fascinated because obviously you and I both know I have I have a very different relationship with my

dad than the tour players have. Um. He says nice things to you guys and patch you on the backs and tells you guys how great you are, which is the opposite of my relationship with him for a long time. What is it? I mean? I think, I know I have my opinion, but the guys that work with my dad that that that he plays such a big role in their lives. What do you think makes my dad

butch Armon such a great coach? I first of all, I think I'm starting to get more like family because I haven't played great and he's starting to get after me a little bit more. The compliments are starting to dwindle a little bit. Mike, I missed the cut. I don't where it was a couple of months ago, and Butch, my caddie and I fly out there and we land your dad standing on the range and we're getting out of the rental car and he goes, oh good, we got one good golfer here and Gary here. So I'm

starting to get the needlings starting to come back. Um, but I'll tell you what there's a million good coaches out there, teachers in the world, but there's just something different about your dad. Man. He he has a way of one making you feel good and making you feel right at the right time. And he can obviously need on me, like you know, when I get out of the car or whatever, but we'll start getting in and

and doing our work. And when you leave there, no matter how you're playing or how you're hitting, he makes you feel like you're the best player in the world. And I've told this story before when I was working with him. I don't know how long ago is. DJ was on the range, Ricky and then me, So this was a while ago. And I'm sitting there hitting balls. We're getting ready before a round, and I hear him talking to DJ and you know, he's just pumping DJ

up before he goes and plays. And I'm sitting there. I'm getting kind of mad because he's, you know, he's it's a competitor, right, And then he comes down to Ricky and he's Ricky's he's telling Ricky how good he is. And now I'm over here and I'm just fuming and hitting golf balls, and he comes and talks to me last, and all of a sudden, I get done. I'm like, God, I'm the best golfer in the world. Like, he just has that knack to say the right things at the

right time. And you know, I've talked to Te Dubbs and people about him, and it's like there's nobody that says the right thing and gets you prepared to the right thing, whether whether you go work with him or not. He just knows how to do that. He's just been around the game a million a million years, and he's been around a million million players. But he just has it. He keeps it simple for me. I say, him and I get along so well because neither one of us

are very smart and we speak the same language. Um, he keeps it simple for me. And you know he loves to to needle, which is uh. I enjoy that part of it, the bullshit part of it. So UM, I'd say he's a friend. He's a psychologist, he's a swing coach, he's everything in between. Um. But he's he's been a huge factor and definitely the reason where I

am where I am today. I think. I mean, obviously, for people that know my dad or don't know my dad, he has a very big persona right, I mean he is a he is in an immensely confident um borderline. At times, can be you know, arrogant, which I think is one of the reasons why he's been successful. But um, and he can be really brash um the language he uses.

But what I always find very interesting with people like yourself that end up working with him and then he becomes a part of their life is I don't think people are prepared for how much he cares about his players. Um and I honestly, and and it's it's been one of the things over the course of my life, Gary, that's been tough for me because you know, you and I have been friends a long time, we've worked together. I mean I have I have not had at times

a great relationship with my dad. It's been tough. We're in a great place now and I love the guy to death, but it's been hard for me to watch him at times, you know, pump you guys up and be and know everything about your lives and stuff like that. But I I do think people are are surprised at how much he does care, how meant, how how he knows what you're doing. He watches every shot. He watches every stat and I don't think a lot of people are prepared for that level of I guess intimacy because

you don't think you're gonna get that from him. There's no doubt and for seventy nine years old that he is right now. He's as invested now as he was when we started in the beginning of two thousand twelve. Um. And we've been on and off a couple of times, but I always come back, you know, you always think the grass is greener on the other side. He just has a way for me, I think, and I honestly think it's more from a psychological standpoint than it is

a physical standpoint. Obviously, there's a million great teachers in the world, but he throws in just a psychological standpoint that makes you feel like you're great. Um. You look at Ricky coming back recently and how well Ricky has been hitting it. That's a lot of a lot of psychological work comes from that. There's just a confidence boost knowing maybe it's the guys that he's worked with and the guys that have one major championships. Maybe that's the

confidence boost. I don't know what it is, but I tell you what. When I started in two thousand and twelve, there's nothing I wanted more than to put a flag on that wall as a major champion. And I've been able to do that, and that was, Uh, that was one of the most important things to me because I've

been in there. I've hit a million golf balls. When we started, I was spending fifty nights a year in Vegas for years, and it hitting balls in that bay there and just seeing all these guys that have one and he likes to throw that needle out there too and talk about all that stuff. And um, that's just something now that you know that will be up there and can't go down. So um uh. I love him to death. He is hard there. There are times you know, he he'd love to help you out. He'd love to

help you out. I mean, I walked in last time. I missed the cutting Sonny open a couple of weeks ago, and I flew straight to Vegas and you know, we go have lunch, We sit down for lunch and we've you know, like I said, we've been there. I've been there since two thousand twelve. We ordered the same thing, but I don't know if we even want of us have to order. They know our order. When we sit down and he's like, what the hell happened last week? You know, and he's you know, he starts going in.

He's like, that's not what I was expecting. I'm like, well, I wasn't expected it either. We kind of figure this ship out. Um. But and then he, you know, like I said, then I goes to here and golf balls and he has me believing I'm the best ball start on tour again. So it's it's an act. It's hard. You know. I've been around a lot of great coaches

from another sports that have that same night. I've heard I've heard Bill self rip these players down to making them feel like they're the worst player in the world, and then ten minutes later they think they're the best basketball player in the world. And that's just what the greats have. And that's what your dad asked, UM. In an era where we are UM trying to have people think of golfers as athletes. I think they are and stuff, but you are actually unlike a lot of guys that

played the page, you were actually a real athlete. You played competitive collegiant basketball. Um, what do you love about basketball and how is basketball g dub different from golf, because obviously they're both sports, they're both competitive. There's a number of similarities. But what do you think are the big differences between basketball and golf. You know, obviously you talk about the team aspect um. Well, on the PGA Tour part, we don't have the team aspect um. That's

a big deal. Hey hey, broy Bro, we've got it. They've got it to live. You can still come. I missed the locker room part of basketball. The big difference from treating me and basketball and golf is basketball there was nothing like a game. I absolutely love the games. I hated practice, and you fast forward to golf. I love the practice. Um, I love to be out there.

And I think that's probably ultimately besides being six ft and slow and all that, that's why I've ended up being more successful in golf is I love to practice. I love the competition, the game part of basketball. It's nothing like the lights, um, the bus rides with the guys needling, all that stuff. That's that was amazing. You can never take that away. But I learned a lot in basketball that I can transition to golf. From standpoint if I wasn't shooting it well, well, first of all,

I was going to continue to shoot. But there were things I could do who in basketball to be successful. I could I could play defense, I could facilitate the basketball. I could do other things. And that's what I had to transition to golf. If I'm not driving the golf all, well, I have to find other aspects of my game. I have to bunnet down the fairway and use the other aspects of my game to be successful to get it

to the next day. Um. Instead of just keep pounding driver, pounding driver and getting out of player or whatever it is, whatever aspect of my game, I have to learn to be successful in other aspects um and not just rely on one thing. And I learned that through basketball. I learned my work ethic being around these older guys and and watching how they work, how they take care of their bodies and treat their bodies. And when I when I went to Washburn, I was I was the only

kid under under twenty one at the time. You know, they're all an ice pass and all this stuff, and I'm I get done in practice. I'm seventeen, eighteen years old, and I'm like you guys. You guys are losers. What are you doing? You know? And now now I'm the one in the ice path every day doing all my stuff. Um, but it was it was something I'll never take back.

I'll never change that. I'm so glad I went and played basketball that when you're in college, because I learned so much from being around older guys, being around that team aspect Um, there's there's just nothing like it. So I'm glad I did it. But I've made the right choice in transitioning over to golf. For sure. You mentioned, um, you'd love to play basketball games, you didn't like to practice,

you'd like to practice golf. Um do you think sometimes you know, it's it's hard for golfers to remember that golf is a game, that there is an art to playing golf, because I see so many players that are looking for me to help them with their golf, to try and get them to whatever next level that is, whether it's high school, college, the tours, whatever. Um do you think sometimes golfers get trapped into technique technique technique technique and you forget because obviously I thought it was

really interesting what you said in basketball. If you're not shooting good, you're going to keep shooting. That's the opposite of what everybody does in golf. They're not playing good. They just want to get off the golf course and get to the range. Whereas when you're playing other competitive maybe team sports, you can't do that. You don't get to call time out and go practice. You have to

keep playing. Talk to me Gary, the difference and how you manage the transition from technique and what you're doing on the driving range and then the actual playing of the game of golf. There's no doubt that technique gets to be too big. I was playing with Roy McElroy at c J Cup the week. I guess he won that week. Um, well, I guess he's been winning every

week right now. But we're playing a practice on and we're just talking about our our past year so and and he said to me, and it's something that really hit home with me, is he's like, I was so focused on my technique at some point He's like, I just said, screw it, I'm just gonna see and go and it becomes reactive. And that's what sometimes when you're shooting a basketball and sometimes I'm not worried about this and this and this. I'm just seeing it and going.

And you know, when you, like you said, you get off in golf and you you play bad, you go to the range and you're sitting there hitting golf balls for for three hours after the round because you're so so mad and so frustrated. I don't know if you're getting a lot out of that. A lot of times. And for me, I've been out here fifteen years. I played golf my whole life. At some point it has to be reactive. I hit it in the trees. I'm

not over there thinking technique. I'm thinking about how I'm gonna hook this thing forty yards back into the fairway and it's an easy shot for me. And then I'm in the middle of the fairway and I'm thinking about this and this and this, and then all of a sudden, you know, you start playing bad and then you're you're thinking about more technique or you talk about being simple. I mean that's seeing and going is very simple. And that's that's one thing about having the right people around

to you. I think that's why I miss your dad traveling, because Dad is so simple. Sometimes when I'm out there by myself, I start getting into two technical too much technique and UM and that, and I don't do well that way, you know, like I said earlier than when we were talking, I don't do well with a lot. I'm very, very simple person. I like to keep it simple, and I have struggled in the past, especially the last couple of years, of getting too technical with stuff. So

there is a lot to that. I think the technique takes. You know, you have so much technology today, so many stats and everything out there. It's easy to get caught up in that instead of just going and putting a peg in the ground and putting the ball in the air and let's go play and see how how quick we can get it in the hall. You mentioned your win UM your first major championship at Pebble Beach in

two thousand nineteen. I don't believe GW can win majors unless you can get out of the technique space, because, as you know, back nine on Sunday in a major championship, it doesn't really matter what you've done previously. The shots are the shots, the situations or the situation, and there really isn't anything I don't think that can prepare you

for that. Because was it different on Sunday um at Pebble Beach in nineteen when when you won your first major, temps was it was that experience different than you had envisioned what it would be in your brain because everybody has that thing, right you're you're a professional golfer. Hey, I'm gonna make this part to win a major. I'm gonna make this part to win the Masters. I'm gonna

put myself in this position. How different was what you thought it was going to be coming down the stretch to try and win your first major championship versus what it actually was? Yeah, you know that was there was something different that week. I don't know, you asked my Caddy talks about all the time. He's like, I've just he's never seen me that calm. And I was playing

extremely well going in and the two things happened. One the PGA Championship the year before at in St. Louis at Belle reve I was leading going into Saturday, I was leading, I was playing with b K and b K end up taking the lead, and I was the second and last group with Tiger On Sunday. Tiger shoots sixty four or whatever, his lowest round ever in a Sunday in a Major, and I I got so caught up as the first time I played with him on

Sunday in a major. Obviously it was the atmosphere, the energy was absurd, but in the first seven holes, I was so caught up in what he was doing, and I did make a birdie finally birdie eight, and I'm like, what am I doing here? I'm not I'm not a fan, I'm not trying to fucking win, and so I was so sorry. I don't know if I can cuss. I don't know if that was bet or not. Sorry. I was so caught up in what he was doing. I got out of what I've done my whole life, and

I learned so much for that day. And then you fast forward to MAUI of two thousand nineteen. I was leading. I had a three shot lead going into Sunday. I was I was playing with Roy, three shots over him. I was five shots over Xander. Xander bogie is the first hold. I have a six shot lead over him. I shoot five under without a bogey on Sunday and I lost. Sanders end up shooting the leven under to beat me, but I birdied eleven to go up by three or four or whatever it was, and I was

playing phenomenal. I had to complete control of my game, and I'm like, I'm teeing off on twelve and I'm like, this thing's over with. I'm I got this. And he ends up holding out on twelve and he eagles whatever hole and whatever he does, and he clips me by one, and I'm like, I took a big second for me to read to reflect on that, and I'm like, I got out of my element on Sunday of a major

championship playing with Tiger. I got ahead of myself playing was playing, you know, a tournament that I thought I had won and probably should have won. I got ahead of myself there. I was so into myself at Pebble Beach that year in two thousand nineteen. Nothing nothing bothered me. When things had, when something happened, I was still Brooks got off to an unbelievable start b K did on Sunday,

Bertie for the first six or whatever it was. I was in control of myself because I'm like, here's the deal. I have a fur shot lead over Brooks. If I shoot two under, he has to shoot six under on Sunday at Pebble Beach. That's gonna be very hard for him to do. Not to mention I have I have part five's ahead of me. I had six and eighteen. So even when I was on seventeen, I'm sitting there like, if he makes ego, I still have a chance. I can get home and two easily. On eight team, I

was just within myself so much that week, um. And you know, I'd like to find out what happened that week and why I was into myself that much and how everything I blocked everything out. But that is the difference. And you look at guys that are great, the Tigers and the DJs and whoever it is down the road, Rory, they just find ways to do that. Look at what Max Houm was doing right now. They find ways on

Sunday to block every block out all the other noise. Um. And I was able to do that on the biggest stage. And that's something that I need to continue to enforce in my head that it's in there. Um, we just gotta get out of our way right now and do it so the obvious course, and for everyone listening and when I hear players saying that is how do you not get in that headspace more often? Do you feel like sometimes you can? You can want it too bad? Right?

There's I remember I took a course in college. It was an Eastern philosophy of course, and there was a book on archeries and in the Art of archery, and the whole point of the book was don't aim at the target, and you'll hit it every time. But if you aim at the target, you're not going to hit it. How How do you how do you get? Because the other thing is, I mean, I watch you guys play

practice rounds. I watch you guys play at home. You guys will have no caddies, range finders, shirt on, tucked, music going, maybe a little booze going, and you guys will shoot sixty one, sixty two, sixty. You guys will shoot twenty nine on a nine and not even play the back nine because you're in this kind of relaxed headspace. And then you get on tour and you've got your caddy. Do you feel sometimes that it's almost like when you're on tour and you are in turn mention, you're in

the hunt. It's it's hard not to become a character of what you think you're supposed to be to win these things as opposed to just figuring out, okay, what works for me. Yeah, I think that's that's a great point, and I think the big deal with that is surrounding yourself with the right people. If you have the rights people around you, and one you have the goals, you

know what you're trying to work towards. Obviously, that blocks out the big picture, right that we all want the result, right, but it's the journey in the process to get to that result. So when you start thinking about that result and you're on Sunday and you're thinking about if I win, this is what's gonna happen. This is gonna happen. You're gonna get tight and you're gonna have no chance. If you have the right people around you that can get

you back into the moment. The butcher my caddy obviously has been out there a long time. You want the masters with Weirzy. I'm sitting there. He's the most conservative caddy in the world you've been around. I give him a hard time all the time. I'm like, the guy wants me to hit seven iron off the tea box and I want to hit driver like he just wants me. He wants to play to my strength. He wants me to play to my iron game. I want to send it.

So we've been together a long time. On Sunday, there had a one shot lead on Brooks On fourteen, I'm in the middle of the fairway. I just watched Rosie lay up and it's the first time that we've been together, and he's like, send three wood. And I'm like, I'm like, are you sure, because I'm like, I think I should lay up here. You know, he's I just saw Rosie lay up. He's like, I've seen this whole location. You can't get it close with the wedge. Hit it three

wood over the green. We'll get it up and down. He goes, send it. I mean there's out of bounds, right, and I hit out of bounds. I'm probably gonna lose the golf tournament. Left is dead. Um, But that that confidence that he gave me when he said send it, I'm like, you got it, and I send three wood. It was the best thing I've ever made. Obviously, make Burden get up and down. On seventeen. People talking about the chip shot, and you know, there was a lot

going in. I could have been super nurse whatever it was. When I hit the t shot on seventeen, I hit it over the right side of the green. I walk over the bag and I'm obviously I'm like, oh crap, what I just do And but she looks at me. He's like, you're gonna chip that. You're gonna get it up and down. And there was never a thought walked two yards to get to the green. When I got up there, it was already in my head that's what I was doing. And I give him credit for that

because it was a big moment. He was able to calm me down completely. And that's all I was thinking about, was gonna get this up and down. And there was never like should I put it? Should I do this? He set that tone for me, and I think that's where experience comes in. I'm a guy that likes just to be told what to do, so that's why him and I worked so well together. I think, just give me the club and tell me what to do and let me do it. Don't let me do the thinking.

If I'm doing the thinking, we're gonna be in a world to hurt um. So that's a huge part. Having the right people around you whether that's a caddy, whether that's your coach, you know, whatever it is, or whoever it is. Psychologists, it's to have the right people making sure they're all communicating, because that can get you out of your own head. We all get in our own head too much, UM. And you know, a lot of a lot of the pain and stuff we we do

and the bad play is self inflicted. Um. And so nice to have those people around you and getting them all on the same page, communicating together and making sure we're working towards a goal. Um. And sticking to that process is a huge part of it. Let's take a moment to thank for Wellness for supporting the show. You guys hear me talk about them every week, and that the reason I do that is because I drink their

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H three. That code will get you off your order, plus free shipping and a free starter kit worth thirty dollars when you visit for Wellness dot com slash podcast Again, that's the code c H three at for Wellness dot com slash Podcast. One of my favorite things after someone wins a major championship is the following week, if you're lucky enough to be there to see that kind of procession right where you walk on the range and people come up to you and and congratulate you. I mean,

obviously that must be an amazing feeling. But you know, what is the feeling like for you when you when you win your first major and then for the rest of that year, I mean, everybody looks at you differently. Um. You know that you are part of a group, part of a club that everybody wants to be in. UM, But internally, what does that feel like for you when you're walking around as as a major champion? Do you do you feel different? I don't. Uh, Well, the next

morning it hurt. I can tell you my head hurt. I didn't feel very good after next morning. Spent a lot of time in It's after room Sunday night at Pebble. Um. I don't know if I feel different as much as I there's a lot more attention. Um. I flew straight to me York the next day and did a media tour and that was that was more attention than I've ever had in my life. Um. But yeah, I it's funny. You know, I haven't played well the last couple of years, and I'm I'm playing last week in San Diego, and

it's it's the people that I don't know. I would say, you know, I'm walking down and I hear people say, oh, that guy won the US Open. That guy won the US Open, like people aren't saying, oh that guy won Phoenix in two thousand and eighteen. You know, it's it is different. It is a different stage, it is a different level. I need to get out of my own way again and get back to realizing that that I had that inside of me and that's never gonna leave. Nobody can ever take that away from me. No matter

what the biggest stage in golf. I was able just to be successful against the best players in the world and at the time, it was the hottest player in the world. B K was on a tear. He won four of the last I don't know how many majors, eight majors, nine majors, whatever it was. The guy was playing un freaking believable and I was able to step up and play my best golf in the moment when I needed to. So it's able to block out now

those expectations. People always are gonna bring expectations when you play well, there's a lot of people around you and guaranteeing to you. Now when when you haven't played well, people start to drift away from yet. So I had to learn to deal with all that lot more attention.

You know. The thing that hurt me the most after that was COVID because I obviously have Mark Steinberg in my corner, who's been around more and five major championships than ever and been in that moment when COVID happened, and I like my team around me. Phil couldn't travel, you know, Signy didn't travel, They wouldn't let agent sound.

I didn't have my team around me, and I struggled massively because I had more attention, I had more media, I had more crap going on, and I was by myself and that and then I got hurt, and then it's it's it's been a long process to get back where I feel like now I've kind of flipped that corner and now I'm working back. You know, for a while I was trying to hang on. I was just trying to hang there. Now it's a process. Okay, now we've sat down. Now my team's back around me. Everyone's

traveling again. I go see your dad a lot, but I just saw him last week and I'm going back this weekend. Now I got my people around me, and I'm starting to get those good vibes again. I'm starting to realize when things are going off, what's going on. Um, So I'm excited about what the future holds. But that I really struggled after that. Like you said, there's a

lot more that comes with it. People, you walk on the range, you do feel a little different, but it's the expectations and the people and everything to learn to say no. Well, I was out there by myself with COVID. Obviously COVID was horrible for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. Um, it was an awful deal. The pandemic. It hurt me from a golf standpoint drastically

as well. And um, you know, luckily, now we're starting to get past all that and my team can get back around me, and um, I can get back to doing what I love to do the most. We're coming up to waste Management. You won there in two thousand and eighteen. I mean it's a freak show. Um, what's it like to win there? I mean it seems to

get bigger every single year. Um, coming from the obviously coming from the basketball background, I mean, you must love all of the fans and the crazyness and stuff like. But what's it like to to win there and and go through all of that with all of those people. It's an absolute ship show. And you throw in this year the super Bowls there this this year, and you've got Kansas City there, so I'll have a million a

million people out watching, which will be great. But for me, it's you know, I've given away a hundred tickets there before. It's it's one of those deals where everyone in Kansas where I'm from, once you get out of the cold, they're trying to find a week to do it. Why not come to Arizona. It's a party, right, there's three hundred thousand people there are only ten thousand and were watching golf. And it is an absolute there's no lack of a better words, a ship show. It is unbelievable.

Sixteen If you take the stands out. I've played there with no stands. It's a very simple golf all. Now, all of a sudden you put thirty thousand people in there and you can't feel the wind because of the of the grand stands and everything, and now of a sudden you're adrenaline. I feel like I could hit a nine iron two hundred yards. Now it becomes a little more difficult, but there's just nothing like it. We don't

get that kind of energy. We'll have more fans on a Wednesday then at that tournament than we will all week at some weeks um. But you can hear the roars on sixteen from the first tea box, you know, you can hear the noise in the atmosphere is so good. Um, the energies that we just don't have anything like it. So I'm super excited for next week. Obviously I've had success. They're being able to win. They gave me my first exemption in two thousand eleven teen into a tournament. So, um,

it's exciting. I'm looking forward, always looking forward to going back to that one and one of the great memories of of that tournament, I think one of the great, you know memories in golf. Amy Barker said, two thousand and nineteen, Um, she's a college golfer. She's got down syndrome. But I don't think a lot of people that watch that realize is when when you're told as a player that you're going to do that, you get no background. Right you're you're playing. The tour tells you, Hey, you're

gonna meet this person. She's going to play this whole. I mean she stood up. You're playing with coach. It was all in sixteen. I mean you if you and put out is in as a script in Hollywood, somebody would go, I mean, no, that's never gonna happen. She stands up, she makes a good swing. You can see you and Cooch are like okay, and then the bunker

shot this this girl hits is unbelievable. There's just you put her on another hole, or put anyone on another hole, and it happens, and they make par You're like, great, that's that was really cool. You put them on sixteen on sixteen on Tuesday afternoon, when it's late in the day. We were playing late that day, so gut. Everyone in there had been drinking in the stadium. I was just hoping she got it off the tea right, and she makes a great swing. If it was online, it was

just two yards to the right. If it's two yards left, it's in the middle of the green. It goes in the bunker, and I wanted to get it out. I had no expectation of her head when I hit. When when you're on the whole, the one thing you don't want to do is chip like you want to hit it on the green and give yourself a chance to make putty. She's got an uphill bunker shot. The bunkers are a little fluffy there anyway, it's an uphill bunker shot. She's like, oh, I got this, I got this. I'm like, hey,

here we go. I don't want this shot. And she hits a perfect bunker shot to ten ft And I've never wanted to will a golf ball in the hole so bad, I mean, and this thing went in dead center, and I got a lot of cool text and a lot of stuff about that. But afterwards, Phil Kenyon, we're talking about coaching, he sends me a screen shot. Everybody was,

you know, talking about the video. He sends me a screenshot of her putter released at Impact and said, this is what I want you to do, like her stroke is. Everything was so good. But it was so funny because I'm like, all right, yeah, I should have I got so confident the moment I should have been watching her putt because her putty stroke was perfect. So it was amazing.

Her energy. I've been able to stay in contact with her and talk to her her attitude or energy in a world where there's a lot of stupid crap going around back and forth between a lot of things. The world needs a lot more of Amy in it, and she's been a breath of fresh air for me. She She's definitely been a positive influence in my life. You know, you you go into those experiences and you try to have a positive impact on the people that you're working with,

and I think it was reversed. She's had a positive impact on millions of people around the world. Um, I still get a lot of people come up to me and saying I got this. I got this, UM, and that's because of her. So that's pretty special. I think it. I think the clip almost almost fifty million views. I mean, and and the cool thing is is as I know that you guys have formed this relationship, UM, but it is I mean sometimes in life it's like the stars

line up and and you know, everything just happens. And I think the great thing about watching that clip, when you go back and watch it is is her reaction, but then you watch you and Cooties reaction, which was even better. UM. It was amazing. It was like we want a golf tournament. It really was. Um. It was like we made a put on eighteen to win a golf tournament. Just the excitement and energy was was unbelievable.

I want you to share, UM something I think one of the reasons I think you played a big part in helping DJ win UM that Major and during COVID and the Masters. UM, I think you were a big catalyst for that run that he went on. And the reason I say that is you guys played a lot of We've played a lot of practice rounds that that

that year. UM, there wasn't any fans Um, there was no energy out there, and and you and DJ played a lot, and I think one of the things that I think really helped him that year was the chipping game that that you guys played, something that you and your caddy, Butchie came up with, UM share with everybody listening, UM what it is. And I think it is a fantastic game for everyone listening if you're trying to get

better chipping to play. Yeah, you know, I've played. I've played more practice rounds with DJ probably than anyone outside of maybe Coach on tour since I've went out here in fifteen years. DJ and I go way back to college and our amateur days and traveling around and acting like idiots. I love the guy to dead. The chipping game started, Coach and I were playing this game, and Coach obviously has one of the best short games on tour, So for me, it's a huge thing for me to

go and try to learn from him. And you know, DJ and Coach were partners a lot in the President's Cup and Rider Cups team. They've been partners a lot. So DJ comes and we're all playing this game where the caddies put pins that are typically gonna be on that whole throughout the week and you get three balls and it's best to out of three wins. But if you win all three chips on the whole, you sweep, and so it doubles doubles what you're paying. So it's

tough because they just throw the ball. So you're getting good lies, you're getting bad lies. But it's kind of more game like where we're playing these golf reve now your fifteen years, we're playing the same golf courses over and over and over again. But you start making these things interesting, starts making the practice rounds more enjoyable. John

Rom joined us. One thing John rom is always asking to join, Like you've got guys getting in because it's competitive and it's you're learning, you're watching how other guys hit certain shots. You can say what you want about DJ. He's one of the most sport or golf knowledgeable people I've been around. I've been partners with him in President's Cup. His golf i q is is a joke when it

comes to seeing things that not everyone sees. And so watching him hit different shots with different clubs and what he can see and you know, um, it's it's fascinating so I think it's helped both of us. You know, Um, that week at Augusta is obviously a great week to chip and learn where you need to be and where you can't be. You can hit golf shots all you want around that place. There's sometimes it's better chipping than

it is putting on certain holes. So being able to play that game, um, you know, now I gotta find coups DJs. DJ has gone on to live, but I can still work with him in the major that I look forward to doing it at Augusta. Um, but it's helped both of us. It definitely has, and I, like I said, more than anything, it makes a practice round that goes by and sometimes you can be out there

forever and make the day drag on. It makes it more enjoyable because the last thing I want to do, even if you're playing for five bucks whatever is I just don't want to lose to him, you know, and and he doesn't want to lose either. The last thing you want to do is hand out cash on the last goal. So it makes the short game practice so much more beneficial. And uh, I think it definitely helps

you out throughout the week. Lastly, Gary, you mentioned we mentioned at the beginning of the pod Um made the move to go over to Cobra from a quickments standpoint. But you've been with Puma for a while now, Um, you wear the Volition clothing, the partnership they do with the Folds of Honor and Major Dan Rooney. Um that that I know, that's something that's really really important to you. It is you know, my grandpa was in the military, My wife's grandpa was in the military. Rooney has had

an a massive impact in my life. I met him he played golfing KU. I met him when I was at KU. He married my wife and I he got me involved in Folds of Honor two thousand nine. The Volition things started in two thousand and eighteen, and it was just I had just split with Under Armory. It was a natural fit to slide right into that. And then Puma has carried that on. You know, credits to Puma for for believing in that project as well, and

it continues to grow. The stuff is amazing. We're giving back to the military while we're supporting stuff and we're bringing awareness. I see it more and more everywhere I go now, Um, it's it's really special and it's nice. Now you talk about partner with brands, it's nice to partner with brands that have the same beliefs that you do. And Buma and Cobra love to get back, they love to get back to the military. That's been a big

part of my life and my family's life. Um, and so it's it's special to partner with them and be able to do that together. Well, I'm excited for three. Um, hopefully we'll get to see you a little bit more. And um, hey, you gotta start. You gotta play good this year otherwise you know, my old man's he but she's gonna be on you. You know what I mean. I'll be calling you. I'll be calling you for advice. The one thing everybody says, Hey, I want to work with you Dad. I said, no, that's great, but if

you if you don't perform, be prepared. Hey, UM, great talking to you, g Dub and uh, play well in the next couple of weeks time you're the best. I'll see you soon. C H. So that was Gary Woodland and hopefully, UM, you've got a little bit more to go on with Gary Woodland. Like I said in the beginning, I think g Dub is one of those guys that everybody just sees his a long hit or a bomber. UM. But I've had the privilege and the pleasure to work

with him. UM My dad works with him. There's a lot more to him, and there's a lot more to his game UM, and meets the eye. So UM, I think it's a big year for Gary. UM. I think it's a year that he wants. I don't think I've ever seen him one it this badly. You wouldn't think a guy that's won six times and has a major and under his belt, UM, that would have that fight. But but he definitely does. So thanks to g Dub for coming on. UM. I just wanted to touch on

last week. UM, Rory McElroy wins yet another tournament. I mean, this guy, he is. The guy is just so good. UM. The way he plays golf. Um, it's just so much fun to watch. The game is a better place for having Roy mclroy in it, especially when he's firing all cylinders. UM. But with all this this talk and Roy has been a big part of that with the Live with the PGA tour. UM, you can see that. UM. Last week

Patrick reed in the mix, UM, all the drama surrounding that. UM. The one to me, the one positive thing to come out of all of this UM craziness is the golf that we're seeing. And I think if we could get this more often, UM, if there is a way, UM, given the current state of things, given the way things are between the PGA Tour and Live, I think you're seeing that if if the players get together, you're going

to see drama, You're going to see rivalries. UM. I think we've always in golf tried to manufacture rivalries, right. We wanted a Phil Tiger rivalry. We wanted UM a rival to Tiger Woods. We it's almost like it's fake and contrived, and I think a lot of people think it's bad for the game. Whatever side of that you're on. UM, I think we have an opportunity now to actually see some real rivalries happen. UM. There's I mean you can

feel it. There's animal city out there between some of the guys on the PGA Tour and what's happened with Live and and and I think Rory has been at the at the front of that. UM. I think he he feels like he is UM kind of the spokesperson for the PGA Tour UM and he talked about that in his interview after it. He said he had to kind of block out who he was, UM, you know, playing the tournament against. Who is who he's fighting to win that golf tournament against. And that's a comment pointed

at Patrick Reid, who plays on Live now. So, UM, I think if there is a positive out of that, if if there's a way to get UM, all of these players in the same space, I think the fan is going to see some unbelievable golf and UM, I'm here for it. UM. I think it's gonna make the Major's really really exciting with the guys from Live that are going to get into the major's. UM, I think you're gonna see UM. I think you're to see some fireworks. UM. And I think we're gonna see it on the golf

course too. I think we're gonna see guys wanting to win in ways UM that they never have. Trust me, I mean, I spend a lot of time with guys that play on Live. UM. The guys are gonna play in the majors. They want to win these majors, they want to prove something. UM. And the guys that aren't in the major's on live all want the guys that are going to be playing these tournaments to win. Um, and you've got all the guys on the PGA Tour that are going to want to go up against the

live guys. So UM, anybody, It's just my opinion, but it's my podcast, so I can say what I want. I think anybody who thinks that this is bad for golf, I just don't agree. I think we're gonna see more competition. I think we're gonna see some really legit, real rivalries and like I said, I am here for it. Uh So, once again, big big thank you and shout out to Cope, Puma Golf. UM. I'm lucky to have them as partners, and UM glad that they are supporting the podcast Son

of A which comes to you every Wednesday. We will see you next week. M