Dave Phillips: Rahm's Coach

his brain. I mean, listen, John Ram is a incredible golfer, but he's a very unique athlete. He has some unique things to his body, and that's one of the things we talk about with Dave. One of the reasons why I wanted to get him on talking about John is if you're trying to emulate what John does, you need to be careful with that because I think after listening to the pod with Dave, I think you're gonna have a better understanding as to why John does what he does.

Why John isn't able to do some things that would maybe make his golf swing look a little bit more orthodox. But I think there were a lot of people that did tell John Ram that as a junior he needed to make some changes, but in meeting Dave Phillips, I think it was a career changer and a life changer for John because the TPI model is to figure out what your body can and can't do first. That's what

they did with John. We get into it, so it's a pretty good deep dive into John Ram Masters champion to go along with a US Open champion, and I think the sky's the limit because when John Ram is playing John Ram golf, he is tough to be. Before we jump into that, let's take a moment to thank for Wellness for supporting the show. You guys hear me talk about them every week, and the reason I do

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and use the special CODEH three. That code will get you twenty percent off your order, plus free shipping and a free starter kit worth thirty dollars when you visit for wellness dot com slash podcasts. Again, that's the CODEH three at Fourwellness dot com slash Podcasts. So sit back and enjoy listening to Dave Phillips. So, Dave, I think it was only a matter of time before John rom won another major, and he's been the dominant player I think of the last you know, three four or five years,

definitely this year. What do you think it means to him to get another major? But I mean we all know there's winning majors and then there's winning Augusta. What do you think it means to John to get it done there? Given the history of Sevy and Jose and all of his heroes. Yeah, that's a good question, that Clote. I think it's really been amazing for him. I mean this is one like as a European kid, you dream of, right, you see Jose Marie and you see Sergio Garcia and

then Sevy and they've all won there. I think you know, as much as you want to win them all, and from a European kid, a lot of times you're looking at the Open Championship as the one you want to win, but this one is it holds a special place for John And I think this. You know, he's going to say that they're all important, because that's the kind of person he is. But I know behind the scenes that this is the one that I know he really wanted.

This is the one he really coveted and because of the history and so for him to do it, and I'm sorry that it was against your guy, because you know, I love you and I love your guy and we we battle backwards of force. But I was so proud of the way Brooks came out the way he did. And I think he's gonna he's going to be there for the rest of the season as well and a

long time. You know, as you and your your partner, doctor Greg Rose, as the co founders of the Titleist Performance Institute, UM, I think you two both have changed kind of the way that we all as instructors think about, UM the golfing landscape and UM, I remember when Brooks won in he won the first his first major at Aaron Hills, and you guys, even Greg immediately called me and said, hey, can we do an article because of the workouts that he was doing, the strength that he

had put on, and you know, the team of people that he had built around him. And we talked that day in that article about you know, kind of Brooks being kind of the the embodiment of the TPI model of strength and conditioning, U all fitness, you know, having all these things. I think John ram is the living

embodiment of the screening side of TPI. For everybody that doesn't know that, if they haven't heard the story, why don't you talk, Dave a little bit about how you met John, the things that you saw, and the way that you have gone about working with him. Because he has a very he's got a very unique golf swing. He's got a very idiosyncratic golf swing. But talk me through when you first met him and that whole process of what you saw and what you told him. Yeah,

for sure. So you know I first met him through the Spanish Golf Federation, you know, with what Greg and I do in our education worldwide, we used to do some seminars for the Spanish Golf Federation, and they said, hey, we have some players that we support in the US to go to college. Would you, by chance, you know, look at this guy, John Ram And I was like, oh, absolutely,

I'm happy to take a look for you. He happened to be at a college tournahiment in town with Tim Michelson and his coach, and obviously, in my relationship with Phil, I knew Tim, and you know, they brought him out there and I started taking a look at him, and I remember watching him hip balls and right away it was like, oh, this is different. And you know, not only was the swing different, but the persona, the way he talked, and the way he did what he did,

and he just had a little bit of swagger. But the questions he asked that was what was most powerful. Like he wasn't like this reserved kid. He wanted to know the answers. And he was struggling with a couple of shots. Why can't I hit it high? Why do I only draw it? Which you know, most people see him now as all he's ever done is cut the ball, but he actually drew the ball, and then you know, these issues I was started to ask him about what's going on with your top of the backswing? Why is

it the way it is? And then we screened him and that's what we do at TPI. So you know, our philosophy has always been is that if you don't understand what they can do physically, then you're barking up the wrong tree, because you need to understand how somebody moves in order to get better. So we took him in the gym and we took him through an assessment screen and he probably failed out of the fourteen or

so tests we did. I think he failed ten of them, right, And we started looking at some of the things he was tight. We looked at the ankle doors reflection issue. He told us about that, you know, when he was a kid. And then we looked at the wrist issues and a couple of little areas but nothing you could mold around. And I think, really where John and I hit it off. As I said to him, I go, you know you're gonna get a lot of people don't want to change your golf swing. Don't listen to them.

Don't do it. He said, your golf swing works, but if you want, we'll teach you how to build a team. Around you and to really make it work and show you what you're capable off, because it was just so unique and I love the unique, right. You know, there's a lot of swings that everybody's trying to have this model and look like somebody else. John rom Is, John Ram, you know, Brooks Keptcas Brooks kept tiger Woods is tiger Woods.

And for the young people out there, you need to realize that you need to be the best you can be and know what your limits are, and what your limitations are, you can always work on fixing them. But when you go down this track of trying to swing like somebody else and you can't physically do what they do, that is a track that you'll never succeed at. And so that was really how we came together and started

working together. He asked me to if he could come out every quarter, and the Spanish Federation said yeah, that would be great, and we just started to keep in touch and he would send me swings from on the road and during his college events, and I'd tell him one or two things to do, and then you know, you could see the escalation of how good he was going to be. And when he turned professional. I remember from his first event, he was sent me a couple

of swings. He wasn't hitting it very good, and I told him to do one thing and I just got a text back and said stripe show. And from then it kind of started and we've we've had a great relationship. We've built an exceptional team of TPI certified experts. You know, I play a small role with that team, and basically it's kind of managing is steering the ship the best I can. And you know, Spencer Tatum his Fitness Professional

TPI Level three phenomenal in Phoenix, Scott's l Arizona. We have Harry Sesse on the PJA Tour his Medical professional Level three. And then we have Jimmy Yuan, a medical professional at home so to do any recovery we need at home. We have Brett McCabe who's a sports coach. We have Nico Darees who's a you know, practice program guy. So there's a big team around John, and that's what

makes it work is a great team. One of the things I find interesting about John is Adam Hayes is Caddy who I think Adam does an amazing job and has been a huge piece of that puzzle, but Adam says that you know, at tournaments, John doesn't like to do a lot and you know, in talking to Pat Perez, who I work with they both play at silver Leaf, at the same course in Scott's Dale. He said, if John is home on an off week, he is basically

NonStop at the golf course, NonStop practicing. But when he gets to tournaments, Adam says, he doesn't really practice a lot and doesn't really need to practice a lot. A lot of guys are different. They go to tournaments, they like to practice. DJ does a lot of work at tournaments. When he's home, he tends to try and take some time off. Brooks made that famous quote, you know a couple of years ago, the only time you see me practicing is when I'm at golf tournaments because when I'm

not at golf tournaments, I need the time off. Talk me through what John does away from tournaments, which is where people aren't seeing him, because Pat has been blown away at how much he practices and how hard he practices. Yeah, it's the work before the work, right, and basically it allows him to just go play. So my role there is really just trying to give him practice programming and making it fun for him. So you know, in the off weeks, I'll go to Arizona. We'll do some work together.

If there's any technical work that needs to be done, and there's very little now. Most of it is, hey, if we keep the body in the right place, but the swing will do what it needs to do, and that's great, that's what you want. But when he's home, I mean, a typical John rom day would be it gets up and plays with the kids and has fun with them and does that and then off to the gym, and the gym will start with a pretty heavy workout.

He's not afraid to move some weight in the gym and that that's about an hour long workout, and then he'll go home and freshen up and eat, and then he'll head to the golf course and now we're usually ten o'clock and he'll start his practice and he'll start with some games that we've created that make it fun for him. And he's got different games that he can app into and those are anywhere from putting to distance control wedges to driving games that he can rotate in

and out of it. It's it's really kind of unique. And then if somebody's there, he'll go play and he's quite happy to go play golf, and it's like this is his day. Like when he gets home, yeah, he's going to have the off days where he doesn't he shuts it down and does nothing. But you know, before the Masters, we probably starting Tuesday of the week before, it's a good eight hours a day of practice and play.

And then by the time we get to the Masters, in fact, before that Friday we shut it down, doesn't touch a club. Saturday, Sunday, travel day comes in and then kind of slowly works into the week. But you know, when I'm there at tournaments, it's really more for support and part of the team. Anything he needs, if he needs me to drive him somewhere, pickup food. That's what we do, right, We do the things that you need to do. So it's not always it's part of coaching.

It's you pick up and you trying to get your athlete in the best position they can to perform, and that's that's what we do. John has the ability to shoot really really low scores and that was one of the things that stood out to me when I first started working with brooks Kepta. He was playing on the Challenge Tour. Right after you know, I started, you know, doing some work with him, he started shooting really low scores in tournament sixty two sixty three'. That was one

of the things that kind of got him. The year that Phil won the the Open Championship at Royal at Carnousti, Brooks had qualified for that. He and Peter u Line were playing in a practice round with Phil and Ricky and Phil was asking me about him, and I was saying, listen, He's shoots really really those scores. And that was something that Phil really ld about Brooks is that he could

shoot low scores and tournaments. Obviously Phil has played a huge mentoring role to John Romp, but I know that something that Phil liked about John as well, that he could show. I mean, I think Phil said the first time he ever played with him, he shot sixty two. Why are some guys like John Dave able to shoot really really low scores where other players aren't able to

do it that consistently. Yeah, I mean, I think it's you know, obviously, ball striking is one thing, but it's that there's no fear in John and I think that's a huge aspect of players that when they feel it, they can go there. They don't turn the force it off when it's coming, the water is flowing, they're going.

And you know to your point, I mean the week before in Arizona, I think he missed like an eight foot put for twenty nine on the front nine, and then the next day shot sixty in the wind like it was nothing. And that's sixty was with a bogeye or two I think, And so you know, he has that ability to just put the pedal down and start going. And the big thing you have to do with ball strikers that have that capability, as you know, is of course, like Augusta, which I'm probably the most proud of, is

the way he managed his game through that weather. Because you were there with me. I mean, you saw what it was like. I mean one day it was eighty five. The next day we're going on to the golf course it was forty two and raining and windy, and it was totally different. You know, one day the balls carrying three hundred yards in the air, the next day you can't get the driver past two seventy. And these are

the best guys in the world. So managing your game and what he did that week was you know, normally when you get a guy that can go low, they start firing at pins. But he did a great job of choosing the lines. And this is where Adam comes in as really the most valued person on the team is a caddy of Adams. Adams stature is that he is the glue that holds it all together. I don't think they get enough credit. Caddies aren't guys that just came out of the bar and carried the bag, and

you know that that was fifty years ago. These guys are former college players. Many of them are great athletes. They're smart, they're intelligent, they do the coursework, they do their homework, they know the technology that's out there. They have great relationships with the rest of the team. The first person I crawl after a round of golf is usually Adam, not John, because I want to know where at what Adam saw and he's gold to me. I mean that that guy deserves all the credit he should have.

So I kind of went off track there, but but you know, I feel like Augusta this particular time and anytime you have to hit the ball in the right place on the greens, and I think John just did a little better job of that than probably Brooks, and the last day I think Brooks did it better. The first couple of days when we as fans and everyone listening in his viewers, when they look at John's golf swing, they see it look very different print than what a

lot of the modern golf swings. You know, John is a very big He's a big person. I mean, he's a big athlete. He's you know, probably over I mean six one six two. He's not a thin leaf kind of he's a big kid. But when we see his golf swing, we see that super super short backswing. We see that club and that very very late off. Can you talk us through the physical reasons why we see the golf club in those positions and how he makes

that work, Dave, with the limitations that he has. Yeah, so you know, obviously I think John has talked about this. So he had a club foot when he was child, and they broke his foot and set it, so he has no is it the right or the left the right foot, it's the right foot. So he has no dors reflection in his right ankle, which means it can't flex. So as a result, his left leg is actually quite a bit thicker. You don't see him in shorts, but

his left leg is stronger than his right leg. His left foot is a little bigger than his right foot. So that's one physical attribute. When you have an ankle that can't move, that puts stress up the chain, so it puts stress on the knee. So you've got to make sure the knee structure is strong and puts stress on the hip because they're doing the job that normals

and ankles usually do. They're like a shock absorber, right, So you have to look at that in the whole scheme of things, and that's what we do in my partner, doctor Greg Rose, as you know, as an expert at this and as the guy that puts this all together. But basically, anytime it's not that John swing needed to be short, I could lengthen it. People think he's got tight hips and a tight thoracic spine. That's totally wrong. He has great hip mobility and great thoracic spine mobility.

If I sat him down and we just went there, he can get the club all the way back here. The problem is is as you wind that spring up, that puts more stress on the ankle, and if I put too much stress on that ankle on a frame like his, you could create some issues, and so we don't go there. The other beautiful thing about john swing is it's short, but it's very wide. DJ is wide up. John is wide out. So you know, you can be wide in many different ways, but John is wide out

in front of him. The other beautiful thing about his swing is the club is always in front of him, so it gets down in front of him very easily, whereas players with the club behind them they almost have to wait for that club to catch up. So the efficiency of John's kinematics is phenomenal. The way he uses the ground is phenomenal. And his stretch is what they call X factor, is actually bigger than somebody that has let's say ninety degrees of shoulder turn in a forty

five degree hip rotation. John has like seventy degrees of shoulda turn but only twenty something degrees of hip rotation. His X factor stretch on the down swing is actually bigger than most players on the tour. So we have this very efficient engine. We have a big frame that can move, and because he has mass body mass, he's a bigger than normal guy. He doesn't put as much stress on his joints as somebody like a Will's alectoris or even a Roy McElroy who's smaller and stature much lighter.

They have to use the ground so much more and put a lot more energy through their frame in order to achieve the same kind of speed as John. So in many ways, he may be the new modern golfer. You know, we're back in the eighties. They used to say, hey, a five foot ten and about one hundred and eighty pounds was Jack Nicholas, And you know Greg Norman well now six foot three and two hundred and forty pounds.

It's pretty damn good. One of the things that we were talking about when we were watching golf the golf over the weekend. The rest of his game is very underrated because obviously he can hit the golf ball miles he hits the golf ball. I mean, his ball striking is very very elite. But you said that his putting and his short game are kind of the underrated parts of it. What is it about his putting in a short game that you think makes hit you know, a

strength of his game. It's not as flashy as the ball striking, but it is definitely, you know, one of the calling cards that he has. Yeah, I mean, obviously the creative side of John rom coming from Spain and Boil. A lot of those guys growing up with Sevy, they love to play, right. You've seen this, We've seen it. And John's creativity around the Green. I mean I've watched him get in the bunker with a four iron and hit bunker shots and lob shots and you know they

all channel Sevy. And then he's very close to Jose mural La the Ball who showed him some things, and then he's made it his own and he just tries things. He never stops trying, and that just gives you that confidence around the Green that you know, we kind of learned from Phil. I mean being around Phil and watching Phil. You know, Phil can hit shots nobody else can hit now. Partly is because of the makeup of his wedges, but also because Phil is an expert at reading the lie.

I've never seen anybody read the lie the grass around the ball as good as Phil. Well. John's learned some of this as well and made it his own, and I just think his short game is astoundingly good. I mean, some of the up and downs he got this week from off the right side of the green on one, there was a couple. Some of the up and downs on thirteen from off the left were amazing with the

speed of the greens. So that's one thing. And now his distance control wedges, we've worked a lot on trying to flight those down a little bit take speed off, which is a harder thing for John because of such a short swing. You know, for someone like Justin Thomas, they've got a slower, longer swing, they can take the speed and the spin off. When you have a short swing with quite a lot of set like John does, it can be a little difficult to take speed off.

But we've done a great job of doing that, and he's done a great job of doing that. And Nico dar has created a game where we use eight irons for our distance control wedges, so you actually have to hit an eight iron eighty meters or ninety meters one hundred meters and that teaches you to slow things down, and then when we put the wedge in it works perfectly. So he's done an amazing job of that. And then I think the putting, yes, he has. He been a

streaky putting over time. If you looked at statistics, it would say yes. But you've also got to remember that he hits more greens and regulation than most people, so he's putting more than most. So statistically, some of those stats I don't even look at. We've done a really good job of simplifying his putting, and he's got a little trade in there, which I think a lot of

great people have. Brooks has this a little bit too, in that whatever they do through impact, they kind of do in their putting, so full swing can mirror the putting stroke. John Ram tends to be a really good, little, shut, little hold off face putter. Why do you think he's so good on left to right putts? Well, every he hits his left to right so he sees that line really well. So anytime we get a left to right put with loving it and then the hardest put for

creative guys is a straight put. But we've done a really good job of simplifying putting, and he works on it and he's getting better and better and more confident. We had you on the podcast before talking about Phil. You've been, you know, part of Phil's inner circle. For a long time. Phill has played a huge role in

John's career, both on and off the golf course. I remember when John turned pro, Phil was taking bets from anybody that would listen on the PGA Tour saying, John Ram, you know, was either inside of a year or two years, was going to be inside the top three in the world. What do you think that impressed Phil so much about John at such an early age. You know, I think the first time I know he played golf with him

at Whisper Rock and Shut sixty two. But there was another time in California when I took John to play with Phil at the Bridges Golf Club, and I remember after three holes, Phil coming up to me and go, that's the best iron strike I've heard in a long time. That kid's going to be, you know, world number one one day. And you know there's a guy that knows

what a great iron strike sounds like. You know, John tends to because of his shortest swaying and the way the club moves from hip height to hip height on both sides. I don't know if there's anybody that's got the face matching the plane better than John Rock. There's no open on a lot of rotation of the face. So as a result, his strike is very good and his control of the shot is extremely good. And I think that's what Phil saw. He also sees that competitivism.

You know, Phil has a way where he can get under John's skin. He he'll kind of flip the game or change the rules on him, and you can see John get rattled. And at a younger age, John would get rattled by that. But now when it happens John, he just focuses in and you'll see those eyes kind of change to a different shape and all of a sudden, it's game on. And it's kind of fun to watch his driving is I mean, I think he's one of

the best drivers of the golf ball. You know, I've seen in a long time he tends to fade the golf ball. But you said that you've actually been trying to get him to feel like he draws it a little bit more. Yeah, So, you know, I mean I knew him when he first came here. He could draw the golf ball really well. And then just because of some of the physicality and as he gained more strength obviously on the PGA Tour, a lot of players that have power, they like to actually fade the golf ball.

They feel like they can talk to it or control it a little bit better. And I can understand why. But John is an exceptional drawer of the golf ball. And what I'm trying to do with him is really get him dialed in to hitting and trusting a drawer patent, because he really does have that capability of drawing it at will, and he showed it a little bit here

at Augusta. I mean, if you looked at some of the drawers that he hit, not only did he hit it great on ten where you have to turn it around the corner, his t shots on two were phenomenal.

He had some beautiful drawer irons. You know, he started to get comfortable with a drawer, and to me, that's going to hold the rest of the golf world accountable because when he's got total command of both, That's That's what I keep saying is I don't think we've seen the a game yet of John Ram for four rounds, and not that any golfer ever has it for four rounds. But if he has it for two and a half, the rest of the tours in trouble. So yeah, I mean,

so he's won the first major of the year. I mean, obviously that's the second one. I think he's he's so good with three majors left that he is good enough to win all three of them this year. So let's go through the courses, David and kind of talk about how they fit John Ron. So the PGA is going to Okkill, classic, old school US Open, East Coast, lots of trees. How do you think Oak Hill sets up

for his game? You know what, It's going to be hard for me to say that there's no golf course that doesn't set up for John's game, because there really isn't. I mean, he has command of the golf ball like and you know these play as we say, hey, this guy's built for this, this guy's built for that. You know, it's all based on the conditions. It's all how things are set up, you know as well as I do that. You know, you can get a lucky break with the drawer.

In major's there's the good guys go to the top, but then somebody will win it that you didn't expect, and a lot of times they might have got out on the right side of weather or the right side of the drawer, or they just had a few lucky bounces. Really in many ways, you can look this week and see a few lucky bounces that everybody had that you were like, oh man, that could have been really in trouble and it bounced out in the fallway. And you know, so you need the golf guards on your side to

win major championships. I think every everybody that's won them will say, wow, I hit this shot and I actually or I hit a put that win in that I didn't expect to make. But you just need to keep giving yourself chances. And I think John whether it's you know, the PJA Championship, the US Open, the British Open, wherever it is, he can hit, his game will travel anywhere.

And that's why I'm bullish on you know, if there was one golfer in my books and nothing against Brooks or anybody else, as you know, that could literally win all four majors in one year right now, it would be John rom because he's won the first one he's won in Ireland before. Does he like Links style golf course?

There has always been this. I mean, John, he's getting better, but at times he can run hot, which I kind of like, but to win an open championship, you can get stuck in some really really bad weather and a lot of the conditions can be against you at an Open championship, good weather or poor weather. What do you

think he does well in those situations? Yeah, I think you know, Open championships are different, as you know, because they're very conditioned dependent, and just because of the nature of where they are in the world, the weather can become a big issue, more so in the North when we're down this year in Liverpool, which is why Lake last time when Tiger won it, there was dry as a bone and guys were hitting two iron three hundred

and fifty yards. So again, it really doesn't It's hard for me to get ahead of myself and saying, you know which what it's going to affect John. What I would say is he's starting to mature where he's being able to handle whether good days or bad days. The goal for any major championship is just get in position to be there with nine holes to go and see what happens. And you know, if you can do that, and I think this is what all the great players

try and do, is they're jocking for position. You know, I was a little shocked to see some of the guys that the Master does not make it to the weekend that we know are incredible players. And maybe they're just trying a little bit too hard, maybe they're over preparing. I don't know, but I think in some cases you just got to be very, very patient. You're right. I mean,

have you talked to John and the team. Have they talked to him about, um, the fieriness that he has, because you know, that's a touchy one because you never want a player dave to not be who they are. But there was an example, you know, the I don't think it was the players that Rory won. You know, John and Adam on the second hole, you know, it was in the you got out of position. Adam was trying to get him to lay up. He wanted to not lay up, hit it in the water, ended up

making a big number. But it's it's a balance, right of letting On be who he is, but also is he aware of that at times his temper can get to him. Yeah, I think it is. But I think his temper actually, in many ways it's under control, and I think it's not that he's mad at anybody but himself because he knows that he's put in the work and he knows he's better. I don't think he's getting

mad because somebody did something, you know. I think a lot of elite athletes they may put the blame somewhere else because they kind of built a teflon around them. But John's a big boy. I mean, he takes accountability for himself. I actually like the temper. I think it's great. I think it refocuses him in many ways. I just don't want it to affect anybody else's play, but I don't think he does that. And in many ways, I think it's what makes him so good is that he's

able to have a couple of bad holes. So you know, if you don't think four putting the first hole upset him or pissed him off, it did. And I'm pretty sure that when he walked to that second tea, he took a d breath and he was like, Okay, let's go, let's get back to the game plan. And you know, seventeen holes later, he had shot nine on the part.

I mean, that is pretty amazing, right, And I said to his dad walking off the green I'm like, it's going to be a hell of a story when he puts that green jacket on on Sunday, that he four putted the first hole right, and his dad was just like, you know, it brought bad visions of savvy. I miss, I miss, I miss I make. I mean, there's so many cool things that happened, right, yeah, I mean, And the one thing I liked about John is when they

asked him about that. I mean, obviously, if he had four putted the first green and shot seventy eight, it's a little different. Like you said, he four parted the first screen and then was nine under from there on out. But he said he didn't get mad because he didn't hit bad potts. It's just that's how difficult and how treacherous the Greens can be. At Augusta National, Yeah, you're right. I mean, there's a double boat you on every hole.

People think that, oh, thirteen fifteen, those are birdie holes. I mean, we've been out there, we look at it. We're like, there's a double body sitting on every hole. You get yourself on the wrong side of one of those pins, you hit a chip that's not too good, I mean, on one you can chip it off the green all day long on one if you're on the wrong side of that guy did right, So you have to manage your emotions there that golf course. You know, I think it played amazing. I know the weather was

the way it was. I think the changes they made on thirteen, you know, we're actually good because the guys were able to hit driver. They weren't hitting three wood, and if they did hit a good drive, they were left with a little bit more club into the green and decision to make. And I would love to see the stats on thirteen or fifteen around Birdie's, but fifteen was more of a layuphole this year, and it wasn't an easy layuphole. We saw some guys spin it off

into the water with their wedges. But that's that whole, like you know that, that's what it is, and that's what makes that tournament so great. You said you didn't want to get ahead of yourself. We've got Rory right now with four majors. He's going for the Grand Slam. You've got Brooks with four majors. You've got dj with two, You've got Morkau with two, you got Scottie Scheffler with one and a players, how dominant ken John Romby? Because I mean you and I've talked about this, David, and

I've said this to you before. When I watch him play, you could make an argument that I don't understand how he doesn't win every week. He is that good. So with two majors, now, are we looking at somebody that could maybe push into that rarefied you know, seven eight nine, maybe even because that's what we thought Rory was going to do. Right when Rory one Valhalla twenty fourteen, everybody was like, this is the guy that could get to double digits. It's kind of stalled. It's been almost a

decade since Rory's won his next one. But is John that guy that could be a ten major winner? You know it's it's yes, he is. I'm gonna say it. He is. Absolutely he's that guy. You know, I'm not gonna you know, yeah, he is. He's that good and he needs to believe he's that good. And I tell him a lot. I go, I hope you're thinking about winning a ball this year because you're swinging as good

as I've ever seen you swing. But the thing is is there are so many good players as you know, and there, and you need breaks and you need things to go your way. But John's twenty eight years old, so you know, given the competitive nature of this game and how hard they pushed these days, you know, you could say that we've got another at least fifteen years of great major winning golf there. And then you think

of Philip fifty one that won a major championship. There are certain majors out there that I think you could win into your fifties. And you know, as these guys take care of their bodies better, as you know, they put better, more functional food, which as you know, I'm involved with in their bodies, and we look at the longevity side of the medical space. Yeah, I do. I think John could win ten majors. I think you told

a story last week we talked about this. It gives a little unique insight into the mental part of things. When he won the US Open at Tory Pines. You said he carries something in his wallet that and it was he used to get picked on as a kid. Tell that story, because I think that is a that is a really interesting way to kind of describe how he thinks mentally. Well, the story from what I recollect it goes is that John was in school when he was young, and I think he was probably twelve years

old or somewhere. I can't remember the exact age, but the teacher asked them to write down what they wanted to be when they grew up, kind of as you would as a teacher in school, and he wrote on a piece of paper that he was going to be the best player in the world, the number one player in the world. One day and I think another one of the kids in the room saw the note and grabbed it and kind of made fun of him, and John grabbed the note back and quietly put it back

in his pocket and carry that in his wallet. And when he won the US Open and became the number one player in the world, I think that was a little bit of that. You know, those kids knew who they were and they know who he is, and that was just a little bit of that. You know, you got to put it out there. And I'm a big believer if you can't see it, you can't be it.

And any young player that's listening, or anybody whatever you do in life, if you don't have a vision of where you're going to go, you're not going to get there, and you need to put it out there. And I know John has put it out there with the green jacket and visualized himself wearing it. And I think people need to see the power of that because it sets you on the right course and it defines the lines. It puts you in the lane, so to speak, switching gears.

Just a little um. You know, some really sad news. Will Salaturus just underwent his second back surgery and under a year. You guys were part of you and you're and Greg Rows were part of that journey. We were talking last week about the ball rollback, about how everybody thinks that you've got all this ball speed, you know one ninety, the long drivers, you know, the frame that guys have like brooks Kepka, like John ram have, like

DJ have. But then I think the USGA and the RNA think that everybody's just going to hit it one day with two hundred miles per hour balls. Being b competitive. We saw what Bryson did Dave where he completely changed his body, got obsessed with long drive. Yes he won a major, but he's backed off that now. I think it had an effect on his golf swing. Your will's

not the biggest kid. Do you think that the USGA and the RNA are somewhat naive of the speeds that modern golfers are going to be able to have and compete with. Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm not in all those meetings, right I'm I kind of stay in my lane. But what I would say is this is that to me, golf is in a really good place right now. I mean,

look look at what we just had. We had a fifty two year old guy finished second to John Ron at the tournament and Brooks and we had so many great, great stories from last week, and nobody blew away the field, you know, or you know, no one shot thirty under part well and obviously yeah, exactly. So I look at it and go, I understand where they're going. They're they're

trying to They're not about growing the game. I mean, I think on the business card for the USDA, it's about maintaining the game or holding the game, you know, keeping it where where it was. But many of the golf course architects back in the day, they wouldn't build the courses that they would they would have changed the golf courses. And by the way, if you went back to Ben Hogan's era. He played different equipment than Sam Sneed or or than Jack Nicholas, And every ten years

equipment's evolved and changed and changed and changed. And so you know, I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to say, well, the second shot. You know, if these guys are bombing it as far as they are, it's taking away the second shot, and we want to bring back the second shot. Well, you know they're and it's not for everybody, right, So the amateur golfer, it's not going to affect. It's just going to affect the very small percentage of the best players in the world,

which is probably point zero zero percent. And that would be like imagine if you had a business and someone came to you and said, we want you to take this golf ball and roll it back and build new golf balls, but you can't sell them. So you have to make them to abide by our rules, but you're not allowed to sell them because there's no market to sell them. That's kind of crazy. And then the other thing is it still goes like this, right, everybody thinks that, oh,

everybody's going to come to this. Well, the short guy is still the short guy and the long guy is still the long guy. So to me, I don't get it. I mean it. Actually, if I was a long guy like John Rob I'd be like, yeah, roll the ball back because I'm still going to have seven iron, and now so and so is gonna have five or four iron. So I don't see how it makes that big of a difference. I think agronomy really is the question. I think you can do that by a lot of different ways.

Now get to your question about ball speeds and the body. You know, we've been in this business since the inception. You know, TPI was founded in two thousand and three. We've got more data on golfers injuries and body than anybody. I have thirty thousand TPI certified guys in sixty four countries. We educate in ten different languages. They do physical screens of the data. I can see what's going on, and when you look at it through our microscope, there is a ceiling at to what I think we can move

the golf club at. And you see the long drive guys, they're not playing on the PGA Tour, right, they can bombit. You're always going to get those guys do that and it's fun, it's entertaining, but to be competitive. What we're seeing, this is just through my own eyes, is that once you get above one hundred and ninety miles an hour, there's very few times you can use it on a golf course. There it's just too much speed. You blow

it through fairways, you can't keep it. There's going to be some holes that you benefit on, obviously, But what we are seeing is that everybody's training for speed, and what's happening is if you don't train right. And we're seeing a lot of young kids and a lot of college kids break themselves because they're doing things that their body can't handle. And that kind of goes into building the right body. So when you look at Brooks and you look at Dustin and you look at John, they

have a team around on them. They've built their strength. And this even goes back to Rory. I mean, I remember when Rory was seventeen eighteen when he came to TPI with Padrick Harrington and he was complaining of lot of back paint, and you know, he put a tremendous amount of talk. He bombed it back then, and you know one of our things with him is you need to get stronger, and he went and hired Stephen, a guy from England who got him stronger and built a body.

And Rory's one of the first guys in the gym at every tournament and he is seriously strong, but he's built a body that can handle that speed. If you don't do it right, you will break. And I think we're starting to see that with the Bryson. I think these young kids that are coming out with massive speed, I don't see them dominating every week, and I think there's about a ceiling and I think we're right there. I fight six is about where you can play professional

golf at now maybe wrong. We might have you know, this young kids sergeant who can get one ninety five speed. Maybe he'll come out. But you didn't dominate Augusta, so you know, we'll we'll we'll see. But I think they're I know why they're doing it. I just think they need to look at the whole equation. The human body can only handle so much. And I think we're there. And if you really want to take the speeds down, there's easier ways to do it. I mean, if we

limit the tea height to two inches. You can't tee it up like this, launch it at this and spin it at this if every if the guys have speed and they have a low T it'll just spin. So you know, I think there's so many other ways to do it. Lastly, Dave, talk about TPI for everyone that's listening, Um, what do you think are some things that our listeners can go to the my TPI website and take a look at. And what's in the future for what you

guys are doing? Yeah, I mean, you know for TPI, I mean, obviously we built a community of experts, so you know, we have golf professionals, medical, if you're injured, fitness, if you want to get stronger, then understand the golf swing, and they understand how to physically assess you. And to me, the most important thing would be I'll find an expert part on the my TPI website. Go in there punching your zip code, find somebody that's TPI certified beating you

and just ask them to do a physical screen. Just know what you can do, because if you understand how you move, then you'll know how to get better. And I think that is that is the first and the best way to start. We have a lot of great articles on there and a lot of great exercises and swing drills and stuff as well, but that would be

the starting point right there. In terms of US, I mean, we're continuing to educate and push the boundaries where we're rebuilding out the facility right now and adding some new technology so we can study some things. We've actually branched out into baseball. We have a product called on base U and we have something called racket Fit where we've taken what we know at golf into baseball and into other sports and we've learned from those other sports. Those

are rotary sports. So some of the reasons we have some of the MLB players come in because we want to know how they use the ground and how they create rotation and so on, and how they're so strong. So you learn from going out sign the ropes a little bit and that's what we'll continue to do. Well. Um, it was a fun day for us. We we pretty

much spent the whole day together. On Sunday, we we watched we flew back together, and UM, it's always special when you know, as a coach, when you when you spend so much time with the players like you do, and when you have an opportunity to work with a player like John and see that kind of from start to finish. To to watch a player win a Green jacket when you were watching them in college is pretty special and watching him as a junior. So hats off

to you. Congrats and you guys at TPI. You guys are the best in the world at what you do, so uh, continued success there as well. Thanks buddy. I really appreciate you and hopefully I'll be celebrating with you one of these days on the other side of the fence, so I hope. So too good to talk to you, all right, body, take careful. So that was Dave Phillips and really cool to get an opportunity to talk to him, especially coming off of UM. I think a pretty historic

win for gen Rom for a number of reasons. Obviously yet another Spaniard to lift the green jacket. I thought it was amazing to see Jose Mariel Thabel there um greet him. He joins a pretty interesting fraternity, but two majors now and as Dave said, he thinks he can have a legit chance to win the Grand Slam. I sure us. I'll think he has a legit chance to win it and pretty special week. It was a special week for me as well. My dad was there so anytime,

Butchi is at at the Masters. It's fun. He doesn't go that often anymore, so I got to spend a lot of time with him. It was good to see everybody on tour interact with him because he just doesn't for someone that was a part of the tour for so long, to see him back at a tournament doing television. I had three guys in the field, so that was special, a little bit ter sweet for me this week. UM

still processing everything that happened. I mean Brooks Kepko, who I work with, Brooks had a hell of a chance to win. Yeah, I mean he's devastated. I'm devastated. The team is. We're pretty beat up right now. But I think everybody knows kind of the story of everything that Brooks has been going through if you've watched the Full Swing documentary. I don't think he thought he'd have a chance to win another major this this quick. He played

some fantastic golf. There's three majors left. I think he's going to play a role and as I said to him when he was finished, incredibly proud of him the way he played. He didn't get it done. He's an alpha. I know he's upset, he's beating himself up, but I think you saw that when Brooks is healthy, he's still one of the best players in the world. And a

quick comment about the PGA Tour live drama. I think last week there was a lot of narrative going into last week that there was going to be beef and drama. At the live event in Orlando. A couple of reporters asked the players that were going to be playing in Augusta how they thought they'd be received. They said they thought it was going to be fine. They thought a lot of it was coming from the media. The media pushed back and said it was real after last week.

If you're pushing that there is a rift on tour, on the PGA Tour and the live guys, then you're doing that for your own reasons and for your own agenda, because that is one not true. It was great to see everybody last week. I had a number of different players walk significant different distances across the range to come give me a hug, to congratulate me. On Brooks in the week before asked me how I'm doing, how my

family's doing. You know, I had about a thirty minute conversation with Rory McElroy and caught up with Rory, had a pretty good conversation with Billy Horshell. I hadn't seen Billy in a while. But you know, the fabric of the PGA tour um, even the guys that left Live. I mean, I think one of the things I find interesting is the guys that left Live know what the

PJA tour ecosystems like because they lived it. They played it, They were on the PGA Tour Brooks, DJ, Phil Bryson, Patrick Reid, they played the PGA Tour their entire career. They know what the PGA Tour is about. I think a lot of people that have been making comments about Live and somewhat anti live, they're not part of the live ecosystem. They're not They don't go to tournaments, and they don't know what they're talking about. So I didn't notice any beef. It was great to see a bunch

of people that I consider friends. I was happy to see a bunch of the caddies um the caddies for me. Are you know the caddies on the PGA too, or the Live tour or wherever you're playing. The caddies make the fabric of the tour. I'm there, the glue that holds this whole thing together. So I got to see a bunch of caddy Shay who caddies for Victor Hovlin Um, Joe Scavron who used to caddy for Ricky who's now caddying for Tom kim Um. It was great to see a bunch of these guys. And you know, I think

it was I thought the last week was good. If you're gonna push the narrative that lives an exhibition and nobody plays and they're all gonna get Christian Majors, brooks Kepta, Phil Mickelson finished second, Patrick Reids finishes, I mean they're right there. I mean three of the top four guys, we're lived guys. So m I think last week was a big week. But to me, the big winners last week were the fans, the fans of golf, the fans

of major championship golf. You get to see the best players in the world, and hopefully we continue to get to see the best players in the world. At the major Championships. And um, I think last week went a long way to taking a little bit of the fire out of this inferno that has been building between Live and the PGA Tour. And like I said, I thought golf was a winner last week, and I thought the fans were a winner last week. Son of a Butch comes to you every Wednesday. We will see you next week.