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dot com. The Travelers Championship there is only one. It's the Son of a Butcher Podcast. I'm your host, Claude Harmon. This week it is a PGA Championship preview, the second major of twenty twenty four Valhalla, and I figured hadn't had him on a while to get my dad, butch Armon On talk about obviously the favorite coming in this week,
Scottie Scheffler. But he's been doing a little work with Rory McRoy, get his takes on that and just anytime I think we can get Butcher's takes on you know, players and the state of the game, he'll be eighty one in August, and I think he always has amazing thoughts, insights and listen. What a career, right, I mean, I think he'll be eighty one in August. And you know Rory McRoy picks up the phone and says, listen, man, can you give me an opinion about what I'm doing?
So you know there are a lot of players that do that and.
Listen. He's worked with the majority of.
The best players the last thirty years, so always good to have Butchy on. He's always a fan favorite and he does not disappoint. So sitpack and enjoyed listening to There's no one else like him butch Harmon. Well, with the second major of the year coming up, figured we'd get somebody that always has great takes on it Dad second major of the year.
The PGA.
Before we get to that, because there's a lot of storylines around that. This run that Scotty Scheffler was on. I remember I had you on the podcast right after he won his first Masters. He is now a two time Master's champion, four wins this year, including another major. You've seen a lot of good golf. I know you were on the call for Sky Sports at Augusta. You
got to watch it. It's beyond impressive. And I think Shane Lowry said to me Sunday morning, the most impressive thing about Scotty is how easy and unimpressive he makes winning look. Meaning when Rory, when some of the bigger names win, they dominate, it looks like they're doing something special. Scotty Scheffler just plays amazing golf and makes it look easy.
Well, I think he just he knows how to get around a golf course. He does everything very well. You wouldn't say there's one thing greater than the other. And he's arsenal. It's just every part of it. He's driving his iron, players just control. He's improved his putting so much. Everything he does is good and he's on an unbelievable role. He's putting better than he has in a while. I think going to that malahead putter, I think Rory was the one suggested the two. It was a good idea.
You know, right now, he's definitely the best player in the world. There's no doubt about that.
When you look at his stats, Dad, right now, I mean it's very much like you know, he gets compared a lot to Tiger, but his game is completely different. But if you look at the stats right now, first in strokes gain total, second stroke paint off the tee, first in approach, ninety fifth in putting, first in greens and regulation, first in proximity. I mean, if he was top twenty in putting, he'd win every week.
Well, that's a big if, if be honest with you know, we were doing the broadcast of the Masters for Sky and Nick Dordio, presenter and I were talking about this and he actually made the statement that you know, Scotty Scheffler is almost Tiger S And I said, yeah, if he can do it for the next twenty years in a row, that Tiger s. So that's that's the big if into this. There's no doubt about a caud there right now. He's playing better than anybody and more consistent
than anybody. Look at his distance control of his irons. He's always pinned high. And that's the one stat that I look at it all the time with my players. It's the only one really that makes any sense to me.
Is distance control. If your balls are finishing pin high, are in that relative area every time, you have completely control of your ball through the air and on the ground, and he's had it now, he's been off for a few weeks because his wife obviously hasn't had the child yet and they're expecting.
Well, I think they just had it. I think they just had it.
Did they just have it this week? Why? I haven't.
So he will, but by all accounts, he's going to go to the PGA.
Dad.
When when when you have a baby you played professional golf.
I mean, my sister and I were born when you know, we were young, when you were out on tour. For a guy like Scottie sha Effler, does does having a baby change the way he plays? Or is he just that He seems to me to be the type of player and the type of person that won't be affected by it at all.
Well, the beauty is college of scott He's a wonderful human being. I mean, he's a great husband, he's going to be a great dad. Everything about him his first class. You know, he's very religious. He lives his religion, which I admire for him. It's not my cup of team, but I admire him for being that way. Do I think it will change the way he plays golf? Yeah, maybe a little bit. It will give him a little more to play for it, because now he's a dad
and he has another person to worry about. But I don't think it's going to change his attitude and how he goes about it. I think he goes about it perfectly. You know. He and Randy Smith always come up with a great game plan on how to play. Valhalla is a place that I understand they changed the golf course. I mean I've been there for the PGA, I've been there for the Ryder Cup, so I don't know what the change in the golf course is. But Scotty Sheffer be ready, There's no doubt about that.
And so we saw on Sunday, I mean we saw that part in the round. I think the great ones. Dad, wouldn't you agree that they all seem to do this when they are on these major runs, that they can put the gas on when they need to. On the front nine, it kind of got close, and then all of a sudden, he bird.
He's eight nine and ten.
And I remember saying to somebody the tournament's over, and they're looking at me and they're like, what do you mean.
I said, Well, the.
Way he is playing and the game that he does play. He doesn't really beat himself, does he. He has that kind of knack of not really beating himself, not really making big mistakes.
Well, in my opinion, that's one of his biggest strengths is he has the total confidence in his own ability, but he doesn't make mental mistakes. That was the thing that said Jack Nichols Apart, that's the thing he said Tiger Woods apart from all the other great players, those two had that ability. Yes, they were great players, they could handle the pressure, but they just didn't make the mental mistakes. And Scotty doesn't seem to make any of those.
And like you say, when get close, he puts the hammer down a little bit, he knocks its stick in a couple holes, and all of a sudden, there he is with a big lead. I mean, I can't imagine any of this is going to change unless someone just a guy like Rory who is really starting to play well himself, if he doesn't make any push on him, who knows what's going to happen.
The footwork Dad, that everybody talks about. I think everybody looks at his footwork and thinks it's, you know, kind of all over the place and thinks, why can't I do that? But the way his feet work is very functional, and it's very much the opposite of the way the average golfer, you know, the club golfer, their weight tends
to go up to their toes. They get closer to the golf ball with that lower body than the upper body in the head have to back out, very similar to one of your former students, Greg Norman, and the way that his footwork works, that trail foot, his right foot goes back and his feet actually do a little bit of what the long drive guys do to where their feet are actually going back not forward. And I think it just goes to show you. I think Randy Smith is someone his coach, you've known pretty much most
of your adult life. I know you have a lot of respect for him. I've heard Randy say before that he feels like in modern coaching sometimes that we take out what kids do with their feet. When you look at Scotty's footwork, I mean that is part of his DNA, right, I mean, that is his kind of signature in what he does. There are a lot of people that would have taken that away, that would have tried to make that better, but it's one hundred percent functional for him.
Well, first of all, I have all the respect in the row for Randy Smith. He's been Scotty's coach ever since he was a young man. And what they've done is the things that you and I have been talked about. You never take away what a guy does naturally, you just make it better. Going back to the footwork, if you look at impact, impact position, which is the most important thing in the game of golf, is how you put the cab on the ball and impact. His footwork
is fine. All the other motion is because of the speed and the rotation and of the torso and the body and all the speed that he generates. But if you look at impact, the feeder on the ground, the weight is in the right place. Everything is right, and
then all of a sudden it goes. The only thing that scares me about it is I keep thinking he's going to snap that left tangle one day, the way he gets over on top of it, and I don't think he can pull a Tony Fena how like he did it the part three of the Guessta where he snaps it back of place.
We've got three majors left.
I mean Obviously, when you win the first one, there's always talk about, you know, could someone win the Grand Slam. But the way he plays golf, the way that I mean obviously, to do that, to win all four majors in one year, I mean, is it is next to impossible. The stars have to align. But the game that he plays, and I think the way he handles adversity, the way he doesn't kind of get too high and too low.
You can make an argument that in the game right now, if someone's going to win all four, I mean, he's probably the favorite.
He's the only one that can. He won the first one, definitely gonna be the favorite. I think it's a tall order. I mean, there's so many things that have to fall into place for that to happen. So let's not get ahead of ourself. Let's let's get to Valhalla for the PGA and see what transpires there. If you look at the courses coming up for majors, you've got Pinehurst for the US helping, You've got Trooned for the Open Championship. Those are two good driving golf courses, courses where you
got to control your ball. I know they've made changes at Valhalla, and I haven't been there to see what the changes there are going to be. But Valhalla is a pretty straightforward course right in front of you. So I think all three of these courses suit his game. I remember, I don't think there is a course that doesn't suit his game the way he's played because he's
so under control. But let's go from the first major to the second major and see what transpires before we start looking the way down the road.
He's won two Masters.
Now, dub what do you think about his game lends itself to Augusta Nashvill in the way that golf course gets set up and the test and the questions the design of that golf course demand from me, what do you think he has?
Because I mean he can't.
I mean, if you win two Majors and you've got two out Augusta, it would lend it would lead you to believe that the game that you have sets up good for that golf course.
Well, he won two different ways. The way he played this year at Augusta was not as well as he played when he won it the first time. He's a different player now, he's better in all aspects of his game. He has gotten better. That's not to take away from when he won the first time, because he played beautiful and he got the job done. But he went out and won this time. I mean, he just took this place away from everybody else in the field and just said this is mine, this is how it's going to happen,
and went out and did it. The first one, it was a little bit of a chore and stuff, and you know, to win you first major is not easy anyway. And now that he's won two times and he's going to have to be a thousand percent full of confidence that he can win these. He's a very confident player. As you said, He's got all the attributes, especially the mentally tough, which you have to be to continue to win majors that I can't say enough about Scotti Scheffer.
I think he's a phenomenal player. He's a phenomenal human being. I wish he was a little more charismatic so the fans could relate to him a little more, which isn't his fault. He just is who he is and I admire him for being who he is.
I think the partnership of getting Teddy Scott on his bag as his caddy, I think that's been a huge, huge asset in the sense that they're very similar people on the golf course. They're very similar people in the way they live their life off the golf course. What do you think having ted Scott on the bag is done? I mean he counted for Bubba Watson when he won two green jacket, so Teddy Scott as a caddy. He's been on the back for four Masters Championships. But I
think it's just been an amazing partnership. And the calmness that Teddy Scott brings on the golf course I think is just perfect for the way that Scotty thinks some plays.
I think it's a brilliant move for Scottis Scheffler to bring Teddy Scott on. Teddy Scott had semi talking about retiring, wanting to go do some teaching and stuff like that. He gets the call from Scotti Scheffler, he thinks about it for I don't know how long. I would think only about two minutes and said yes, I'm there and the rest is history. They are a wonderful team and they're perfect for each other because they're very similar off the course too. They believe in the same things. They
live their lives the same way. It's been a great move for scottis Scheffler and an even better move financially for ted Scott. That's for damn sure.
I mean Teddy Scott is making It's gonna be one of those years where Teddy Scott is going to qualify for the Tour Championship. I mean he's going to be He's gonna make enough money on the money listened to play in the Tour Championship.
For the years over where he may be the second Lady month later.
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two Pro. Whether you're looking to improve your game or just play more golf, the MLM two Pro is the solution for you. Play your way with Repsodo golf play without limits. I want to get to the work that you're doing that you started doing with Rory. I know Roy gave you the call kind of right before Augusta. But Dad, in twenty fourteen, when Rory won his last major to go to go to four, he had four majors twenty fourteen, the way he won that golf tournament
again late turning on the gas. If I told you in two thousand and four, at the end of the year or fourteen, that in twenty twenty four would be going back to Valhalla, that Rory would only have one major or four majors, and that Brooks Koepka would have more majors than Rory Macrowy. I just don't think anybody in twenty fourteen would have believed that, given how talented Rory is.
What a storyline.
I mean, he has an opportunity to win his first major in over a decade.
His game is so good.
But remember once, that long time ago in the nineties, you were working with Greg Norman and he shot seventy five when he was number one in the world, And I said, he can shoot sixty six with his eyes closed, and you said to me, but sometimes he can shoot seventy five with his eyes wide open.
Rory is like that. He can shoot.
He can make shooting sixty three looked so unbelievably easy. But there were times in the last ten years in major championships where he puts himself behind the eight ball early, he doesn't get off to the good start. Then he has to go on offense, where it's hard to be on offense in major championships. Why do you think it's been over a decade since he's won a major.
Well, we'll go back to that first point. When he won those four, you would have thought he'd have run on and had maybe eight by now. You could say. You could say the same about Jordan's speeded he caught on fire early and he won a bunch of them, and he hasn't won any either. It just shows you how hard it is to win him. I mean, I think in Brooks's case, Rory's case, and George's case, they act kind of made it look easy the way they were doing it. In Brooks's case, he's become the major
championship assassin. I mean, you go to a major championship, he's ready. I mean, it's almost And you know Books better than anybody. You were the one who helped make Books who he is. You had him from the challenge to our way back a zillion years ago. I remember when it was the twenty thirteen at the opening of yourfield, and then the first time I saw him and you said, here, I want you to come look at his kid. Books
kept going working. Well, we've done a phenomenal job with him, and he's done a phenomenal job of making it happen. But it's not easy to win these things. I mean, these guys sometimes they make it look easy. That's what made Jack and Tiger so much better than everyone else as they did it for twenty five years. I mean, you look at Jack. I mean, yeah, he won eighteen of them, but he wouldn't have thirteen fourteen, fifteen seconds. You know, you look at Tiger, he'd been going on
and on right now, Scotty Shepherd's the man. Rory is the guy we would have thought was going to to be that man. But I think a lot of times, Caud, when things come too easy for you, you just expected to always be there, and then when you hit that speed bump in the road or something, and it kind of gets you all tracked, you start changing things and you start thinking the other way. I personally think that
Rory is back to being Rory again. I mean the work I did with him, it wasn't a tremendous amount of changing what he did. It was his attitude and the way he played certain chots from one hundred and fifty yards and he made that full swing like he's hitting the driver, and I wanted him to make more three quarter swings and chop the bottle through off a little. He's a very high ball hitter, but with short irons,
highballs aren't good. It's hard to control. We wanted to bring the ball flight down, and then I've showed him a lot of different ways to do that. He's put his own spin on that and he's incorporating that into this as he goes on to watching the tournaments stuff Couyle Howell. He's still working on the things to try and do those things. But he's got to do it in his way. I showed him and explain to him why he should do it and how he should do it, but then he's got to put his own take on it.
I think we saw in New Orleans he felt very comfortable to what he's doing. We see it again this week as you and I are speaking. The tournament's going on in Charlotte, and he's right there. Only what done looking it on TV? Only only one back on Saturday from under Shop Play. So he's got his game going in the right direction also, and I think once you see it go in the right direction, the confidence thing takes over. Confidence in golf and everything when everything's going
your way. Golfs he's I mean, just golf swing is built for driving golf ball. He's the best driver of a golf ball since Greg Norman. I mean, he's long, he's accurate, he can hit it a mile, but that swing is geared to hit drives, and that's why I wanted him to work from one hundred and fifty yards in on wider on both ends, take the ball out of the air, control the ball fight a little better once so it can one bounce and stop not spinning back.
So all these things he's trying to incorporate into his game. The thing I admire about him, just like Tiger did's, he put it right into play as soon as we talked about it, even in AUGUSTA when it was all fresh to him. He's still doing it in weekend and week out. He's continued to do the same things. So I think he's he's trending in the right direction. I
think his confidence level is there. He still tends to miss some putts from six and seven eight feet that you got to make to win, but I think he's going in the right direction. Are so many of the others. I mean, if we look at the other guys that are playing well over there on Live, you look at how good Brooks is playing. John Brown's starting to play better, you know, And I have to admire the PGA.
Cam Smith's starting to play better.
Who's that.
Cam Smith has.
Really been playing, no doubt, and you know, the PGA, I take my hat off to him for inviting what sixteen of the Live players to play. Because the world ranking thing is a bunch of bs now, because the top fifty in the world to get in majors is something of the past. They got to come up with a new system because if you look at Live, John Rahm is the only guy in the top top thirty five. I mean, Brooks is thirty seventh, Cam Smith is fifty six. You can go all the way down to DJ three
hundred something. So I mean the world ranking thing, that to me, they should throw that out now for major championships and go on quality. And I think that the PJA have done that, and my hats off to them.
What do you think is is there a fixed in your opinion for the world rankings, because obviously the argument is everybody that went to Live knew what the consequences were, they knew what they were getting into, they got paid, But it just seems like, you know, for the majors, the majors want the best fields, and regardless of which side of this that you're on, you know there are people that are, you know, fiercely loyal to the PGA Tour.
There are people that like Live listen, I don't.
Care, but I think the lawyer the majors now they're the they should be the best fields. And this argument Dad that the best players got together all the time and we need to have that happen more. You've been around golf more than I have. That rarely happened. Rarely did you have tournaments where all of the best players were playing. The Players Championship always tries to get the best field of the internationals and the guys that play on the PGA Tour. The majors have historically been where
we have that. But you said that, you feel like maybe in twenty twenty four and moving forward that given what has happened and what has transpired over the last two and a half years with Live coming on the scene, it looks like the world rankings are somewhat comical now when you have players I mean the eye test, right, I mean, I think for those of us involved in professional golf, if somebody I don't care where they're playing, if somebody is playing in Europe and wins four or
five tournaments, that passes the eye test in professional golf, you know the players that are the best players in the world based off of their performance, their toolbox and the way they play in visional way moving forward, that the majors maybe say, okay, I mean the one that could change it all. And we talk about this all the time, the Masters in the way that they run that golf tournament. The Masters could play with the completely set of their own rules. They could say to everybody, listen,
you have to play with our golf ball. You have to play by these rules, and everybody would do it because they have so much respect for the tournament and you know the history there. Do you think that maybe the majors take the lead and start saying, listen, we are going to make up our own criteria to invite the players that we feel are the best.
Well, I think a Masters has already done that the last two years. They were the first one. I think they were the event that the PGA, the Open championshid us help them, was looking at to see how they handle it because they have their own rules on how they invite people, and just because you qualify doesn't mean they have to invite you if they don't want to. They were the first one to say, yes, we want
these guys. They're the best players. You look at this year, we had a whole bunch of live guys playing there. We got what sixteen of them playing in the PGA. This is what we want. We want to see the best fields we can have. Now they're talking about they formed the committee to talk to PIFF and see if they can start to make this happen. And I think it's going to happen Pud because it has to happen. The PGA tours losing sponsors. This is the last year
for Wells Fargo, Hand has already gone. Some of the others are talking about, well, how can you ask us to spend all this money when we don't really have the best players in the world playing together. So I think the Masters are really the template of how it's going to be. Now, how we get to that remains to be seen. There's still a lot of water under
the bridge. They got to clean up and stuff. But I'd like to see some sort of start where there can be some crossovers, whether the three tours get together, you get lived, you get the PGA Tour, you get the dp World Tour, and say, look at certain events. If somebody from Live wants to play in this, we can invite them. If somebody the PGA Tour wants to play in a live event, Live can invite them to play in it, and so and so forth. I think
that would be a start. Is not going to happen, Probably not, because it's logical and nothing seems more chological these days.
Dad, how much do you feel over the last two years, the fact that Rory was basically the spokesperson for the PGA Tour. How much do you think that affected his own course performance in his game.
I think it affected him a lot, and I think the powers to be at the tour, i'd have to just say out of him because he's the commissioner. I think they asked him to be the spokesman, and to his defense, he did, and he put himself out on the limb, and then in a way he got thrown under the bus on a lot of the things that happened.
And now he's kind of changed his tune. He's come over to being a lot more open minded, which I talked to Rory about when I was with him about a month ago, and he has opened his eyes and he said, you know, maybe I got a little bullheaded and the way I did stuff, And so I admire that for him. He's come out and said that he's on that committee now to talk to to be able to talk to the people that live, and I think
he's going to be a great asset for that. I think the problem you have you have Tiger over here on the PGA tour side. He seems to be very anti lived. You have a bunch of other guys that seem to be that way. There has to be a way for all three of these tours to come together and play. That's all we want, that's all we want. We want to see the best players in the world playing in as many events as we can get. And somehow or another, the three bodies are going to have
to put their egos aside. And I'm not going to pick side. I'm not going to pick the tourist side, Live side, dB World two side. Just everybody, throw your egos out the door, let's sit down in the room and let's make this happen. I mean, that's that's the way things get done. But it doesn't seem to be working out that way.
Well, I know from you know, from I mean obviously on all of my guys went to Live. I know there will be a lot of live players and some of the bigger live players that will look at this kind of new diplomatic It's like the diplomat Rory right to where he's thinking. And you know, this is from a guy that a couple of years ago was saying he hated Live, he wanted it to die, it was going to die. You're right, I mean, I think it
is a good thing. And then you know, just in the last you know, forty eight hours, the ultimate the epitome of the ultimate live hater Brandall Chamblie comes out and says live on air that there's got to be a deal to be made and they need to make a deal. It's crazy times right now. Where do you stand on on this?
Do you think that there's this big push now?
You know, I'm standing on the range and one of the AUGUSTA members said to me, it just seems like there's a lot of greed in professional golf.
Right now, and there there seems to be a.
Lot of people talking about the product. There's but five years ago, i'd never heard anybody talk about the product. I never heard anybody talk about what a professional golf was putting out. Live comes in, they offer a bunch
of money and stuff. Do you think that in your opinion, do you think the players have gotten greedy or do you think the players are finally saying we finally have a voice and we've always been told we're independent contractors, but we have to be told what to do by the tours that we play on.
I think some of both. To be honest with you, and look at the tour you talk about degreed. Didn't they just come out and start handing out hundreds of millions of dollars to people in some kind of trumped up deal. I don't know what it is what they take to fed away money and then give it all of the players or something that Isn't that what Live did?
I mean? Come on, and if you're on the PGA tour, you need to open your eyes and say, you know, maybe you didn't agree with Live, And I got no problem if you didn't agree with it, because it was kind of a strange thing that I offer these gigantic come outs with mini of people. But you can't you can't get on a guy for doing it, and you can't say that he can never come back because that's ridiculous too. But now all of a sudden, the PGA Tour is doing the same thing, Claude. I mean, I
don't know what they call this thing. They just hand out what Tiger Woo's got one hundred million and Rory got right on down and they had three different categories of how much money you get. So I mean, in reality, everybody ought to thank Lid because I think they live open their eyes to what can happen. Okay, that's important thing. What can happen? Now? Did both sides are starting to go this way. It's been that way for three years. The PGA tours now audishing out a lot of money.
Just because you've been there, I said, all right, let's get together. Okay, you kind of both are on the same thing. It's just that some people do it this way, some people do it that way. But the money's still coming into the players. You can't say that the players are being greedy because of the fact that they're getting
paid more money. Anybody that listens to your podcast weekend and week I would love to have someone come up to them and say, hey, look, I'm going to give you fifty times more than you make doing your job. To do the job over here, my guy didn't get on a trampoline and leap over there. And I think now the PGA tour is kind of drinking that kool aid with this new thing they're coming up with. So at least we're working in the right direction. Let's just damn it, let's make it happen.
If you look at the people that are involved with the decision making process on tours, I mean, these are the ssg's guys that are coming in now with the tour. They are very very good business people. You've got yaes ser at the piff they're in business. I mean, these are some of the smartest business people on the planet.
And if you look at the decisions that they're making on a daily basis from a business standpoint, and some of the things that they're able to do in the business world, and some of the decisions that they're making and merging companies and coming out with new products, to me, it seems like there isn't a solution because they don't want one. Because with all of the smart people that
we have, it just continues to amaze me. But with all these smart people and these business people and people like Jimmy Donn and people you know from SSG and the people that I've met, you know in Saudi from a business standpoint as well. I just I think there's a lot of people that just don't want peace, that they don't want this to come together, and it seems like there's a faction of people that want this divide to continue.
Do you do you get that feeling?
I hope not. I hope you're wrong. I can see where you can think that way. As a first of all, it's backtracked a little. I don't think Jimmy Dunn gets near enough credit for what he did. Someone had to go talk to the Saudis. Someone had to go. He was the guy. Jimmy loves God, he's bizarre, seminole, he's a remember Augusta and all of these and I commend Jimmy for dinner. They've kind of pushed him beside now, even though he tried to make the attempts to make
some things happen. I just think that now the players seem to be running the tour. Okay, is that good or bad? Well? Professional tour players aren't businessmen. That isn't good that they're running the tour. They need to have structure ahead of them. They need to have Do we need a new commissioner? I would say we probably do, to be honest with you, because I don't think the players trust this commissioner. Is there anybody that would be great at that? Sure, I have my opinion on guys
that I think would be a great commissioner. They're probably not going to do it. But we got to have some kind of some kind of backbone and some people to say, hey, look, I may not agree with this one hundred percent, but what's in the best interest of the game of golf. Let's get together. Let's make it happen. I hope that you're wrong on the packs and the people are saying, no, we don't want to make it happen.
We like the divide. I hope that's passed. Three years ago, I could understand that because there was a lot of Burgo hostility between the tour. I hope that that's gone now because I think we need to go and try and be positive on all ends and let's make this work.
What would you envision professional golf looking like in twenty twenty five if you could up, what would be your vision of Okay, this is what you would like to see happen from the tour standpoint, from live standpoint, from all the various tours around the world, and then from what the majors are going to be doing as well. What would be your wish list of where we are in twenty twenty five.
I would like to see the three tours get together form a end of the season events. You can take four events, six events, whatever you want to take. For the best seventy players in the world, no matter what tour they come off of, play for fifty million dollars an event or something like that, and I think the savvast could make that happen. But it's a combination of everybody has a chance to play in this and it's
the end of the season, true world championship stop. I mean that to me sounds very reasonable and it's so logical that'll probably never happen, because, like you say, there are people that are trying to make it not happen. I actually think claud if the commissioner three years ago had taken Yastra's phone call, we might have already had that, because I don't think Yoser wanted to own all of golf in the world. He wanted to be part of it. I mean, you know him very well. You and I
have had this conversation. I think he wanted to be part of the process. He could have been a phenomenal part of the process, just to make what I just said happen. Can you imagine at the end of the year, in the silly season, when football is going on and all this other stuff World Series and Baseball, all this stuff is going on, that all of a sudden, we've
got six events, say six weeks in a row. Pick a number you want, one hundred players, seventy players, seventy five players, the best players in the world, come all over the world. Have a criteria to bring the best all of the world together for a huge prize money. Make it. If you win the thing, you get eight nine million dollars, would give you charity five million dollars
or something like that. Make it something that people would care about and want to watch, and actually they would turn it on even when there's a football game on. They say, holy smokes, this is something special. Look at who we got playing in this thing. Look where they're playing. They're playing all over the world. They're the best courses in the world and all these countries. This is what
people want to see. This is what it's all. Why do you think that the NFL and is that all these are going they're playing games in Germany and England and stuff because people want to see them play. Well, golf's no different. People want to see these people play.
Yeah.
We just got back from you know, Australia and Singapore, and the crowds that turned out in Australia, it was unbelievable. They just they've never seen that. That's many good people. The golf courses Dad in Australia, the sand belt golf courses, they're just they are just so good. The design, the bunkering in Australia and those sand belt and we you know, the Grange where they played the live event isn't one of the superstar I mean Royal Adelaides right across the street,
which they say is really good. But I just love to where they're There are these green complexes and the bunkers are basically on the green, and there's these deep runoffs, steep faces, and it just it allows for so much shot making. I know you've been down there a number of times. The golf courses are just so cool down there in Australia.
I've fyed a lot of those, especially in the sand Belt. I've fighted a lot of those golf courses with a great tom crow, my good friend, we'd go over and play them. The bunker and is phenomenal. I mean, it reminds me of Tilly Hasse and Wingfoot, the deep bunkers with steep slopes. The beauty that I love about the golf courses in Australia is the banks are very firm and everything goes down into the flat of the bunker.
If you notice the only rate the flat part of the bunker, because that's where all the balls end up. Very seldom do you see one stick in the bank. It can happen if they've had some rain and stuff. But their golf courses are beautiful. But there's great golf courses all over the world. I mean in great parts of the world that would love to see an event like we're talking about, and they would. You couldn't. You'd have to stop selling tickets. So many people would want
to go see the day. Let's get these three tours. Let's get PGA Tour Live, Let's get DP World Tour. Get off your ass and let's make some of this happen. Let's sit down and talk about it. New haters got to stop hating.
The hate.
Time is over with Live not going anywhere. It's going to be here, and they're putting a good product on. I don't necessarily agree with the fifty four holes. I wish they'd go to seventy two holes. I don't necessarily agree with the shotgun start, although the players like it, because then whether it's not a problem everybody's on the course at one time, the team thing is. I'm sure it's fun, but it's very confusing when you're trying to watch it because they start talking about this and that.
But I think there's a way to continue along and everybody get along, and there's just different aspects that each tour has. It's really good, and let's put all these aspects together and let's create some of it. Well.
I think, you know, if you think about what they did with PGA Tour, you right, I mean lud big ober Coming, who was just so impressive at Augusta this year finished in second. I mean last year at this time he was playing college golf. Now he is was he seven in the world. Thea what they did with the PGA Tour, you which was giving you a ranking
system to college players everybody. I mean, obviously I think the PGA Tour did that one hundred percent to try and counteract the live money trying to take the best college players. But I mean that is something that everybody in the professional game has thought that needed to happen.
For the last fifteen years, right.
I mean, the players coming out of the college golf system now are amazing. But what I find interesting is we can't figure out how to get live World ranking points because it's fifty four holes, there's no cut. Individual team doesn't seem to be.
A pathway on that is college golf.
College golf is fifty four holes, there's no cut, there's a team an individual winner every week. I can't pick up if you're seventeen years old, you can't pick up the phone and call John Fields at the University of Texas and say I want to play golf at the University of Texas. He's going to tell you, well, we would have to recruit you, and you can't just come qualify for a team. He basically every week through qualifying,
how many times college golfers. Have you coach that said, yeah, I finished second qualifying or third and qualifying, but they didn't take me this week. So the coach picks the team, and then if you're really good and you're going to go to Stanford, they're going to pay for you to go to school there.
So if they can figure out.
How to get somebody out of that system directly onto the PGA Tour, like you said, there's got to.
Be I can't blame the PGA Tour for doing that. I mean of Coursel. I got about all of the tour good. I thought it was a great idea. I think the stumbling block for LID is fifty four holes. I really do. I get it. They wanted to be different. I know that l I V stands for fifty four ands. I get all the coalition with that. I don't have a problem with the team stuff. The guys seem to like it. They seem to enjoy it. I mean, we have Ryder Cup teams and international team the President's Cup,
so we have team events. But I don't blame the PGA Tour for doing that. I see where your argument would be, but I just think that the fifty four hole is a crutch. I think if you went to seventy two holes and maybe seventy players or so, because these events that go on with seventy players in it and no cuts, I mean that would be the same thing as what lives doing. You know, designated to me makes sense. I just think the world ranking the way
it's run, I never understood it anyway it was. I mean I didn't go to MIT, I went to no It, So I mean I couldn't understand what the hell that I had. The guy at de Royal County down we were having a lunch one day and we were talking about it, and he was trying to explain to me, and I was a deer in the headline finding I said, look, I'm very sorry, but I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Okay, I wasn't very good in school. I didn't like school. If I wasn't a good athlete,
I couldn't have got through school. So I mean, you're talking to the wrong guy with meal pissing into the win because you're getting it all over yourself because I have no idea what you're talking about. So they got to come up with and I don't think the players have any idea of how it works either. I mean when I look down to live players and I see that Patrick Reed is ninety two in the world ranking. These are major champions. I mean Cam Smith fifty six,
he took major championship d Chambeau. He's one hundred and seventeen. Dustin Johnson is three hundred and seventy ninth in the world ranking. The guys one major championships. Bill Michelson just won one a few years ago and he's one hundred and fifty eighth. What kind of system is this? I have no idea what the hell this is? I mean, come on, let's get a system that works. How about to get a system. As my dad used to say, that the guys that shoot the low scores win, that's
the system. The best players in the world are the ones that are shooting the lower scores. I don't give it damn what you're ranking as a two year ranking and all that bullshit. If you're shooting good scores and you're winning, tess what you're good. I don't give it damn where you're playing.
And that goes back to the eye test that we were talking about, right, you know the best. You know who the best players in the world are. Right, The ranking system is the ranking system, But those of us that are lucky enough to be in professional golf, that are lucky enough to still work with good players, you
know who the best players in the world are. When somebody goes, oh, he's one of the best players in the world, you're gonna if you're looking at the record, how many tournaments they've won, how many majors they won, you might say, yeah, Okay, he's had a good year and he's finished second a lot, but he hasn't really won a lot of golf tournaments. The eye test, I think is important in the ranking system data. One question I've got to ask you, going back to Rory mclroy,
You'll be eighty one in August. You've been lucky enough to work with the greatest players of the modern generation and stuff, But you know you're eighty When Rory McElroy calls you, does it get you excited?
Does it make you go man? Roy McRoy just called me and asked me for help.
As an instructor who's been in the game for so long and worked with so many great players, does it still kind of give you that buzz in your stomach that went a great player like Rory wants your opinion on something.
Does it?
Does it?
Does it still have that same feeling that it's always had for you.
Damn Reditize, You're damn reditize. I'm honored that he would think that they call me. He's done it before. This was the first time we've done it. And there's a lot of them that have done it. You know, Jordan's done it, Dat's done. All the best players that come a cake, they just want to hear something different, or maybe they want to hear you tell them something that they've missed you something, but you dn't right. I loved
it when he called me. It was like when Ricky called me back when he when we hadn't been together for three years. And I love that that he had the confidence in my ability as a as a as an instructor and a coach. And there are two different things to be honest with you, but it makes you makes you feel good because, Wow, these guys still have faith in me. I might be eighty, but I've still got these two track mans right here that work pretty
damn good. These blue things that you're looking at right here, that that's what these are my track mans right here, and they worked pretty good for about the last forty years with these guys. So yes, I was. I was humble, and I got a big smile on my face, if you want to know. And I couldn't wait for him to get here because I already had an idea. You know, me, I've watched every great player in the world, and I have a memory bank and golf swings in my head
that I've seen everybody play. So if a guy were to call me I've never worked before, I guess what I've watched it play. Now, if I've ever had an idea what I thought you could do? Yeah, I think I could help you. And in Rory's case, it was it wasn't difficult what he needed to do. We had some good, good conversations about how to handle majors and the deals, deals and how you approach majors and how you go about it, and so, you know, so I loved every minute of it.
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dot com. The Travelers Championship there is only one. How much did you.
Yell at him? How much did you did?
You put him in the office and get on him a little bit.
I didn't really get on them. We sat down in the office, we had a conversation with by our families and stuff, and then we started talking about major championships. And I tried to explain to him, because I've had a lot of successful guys that have won a lot of major championships, about how they went about processing the major championships, not just this is before we got into his mechanics of his swings, of the things I thought he should do. I wanted to talk about Augusta and
the very majors. We talked about preparation leading out, how you handle it, who you live with when you're there, do you get there too early, get there later, you know. And I just explained how everybody did it differently, and then then I'd laid out to him. I said, but he says so because he had he had gone to Bay Hill and made twenty six birdies and finished like twenty. He had gone the next tournam and he's missing greens in the left bunker with wedges and nine acts. And
I explained to him why. And I explained to him, Look, you've got a golf swing that's built to drive the ball. You're the best driver in the game since I've seen, since Greg Norman drove. I said, you're you're a phenomenal driver. I said, the problem is you hit your web shots with your driver's swing. Got this big old long swing and this big ol' fallow through the balls too high
in the air. I said, I need to show you how to hit three quarter shots, bring the ball flight down so one bounce and stops the donecomb roaring back off of greens. Because of the height you're taking it in there, you'll control the distance better. I explained to him how he would do it. Then I said, look, you're gonna have to put your own take on it on how you do it. But and and so far,
you know, he's done a nice job. And I can't say, yeah, he's not doing everything that we talked about, but he's picking the pipes that he thinks he can do right now, and he's playing better. He's more consistent now every week he's right up there again, which is what we want to see.
I mean, you.
Worked with, you worked with two of the biggest alpha's probably the professional game has ever seen, in Greg Norman and Tiger Woods. They had everything. They had every shot, they had everything that you could do. When you look at Rory Dad and you look at his game, not just the way that he plays golf, the toolbox he has, where do you rank him out of all the players that you've seen, Because I think he's one of, if
not the best players I've ever seen. I mean, he's to me, he is as close to Tiger and Greg as you can probably get from having everything.
Well, I wouldn't I wouldn't say he's is close to Tiger. I don't think anybody's close to Tiger. There's only one Tiger Woods. His tale like he is. Greg Norman doesn't get the credit for how great he was because he only won two Maniors, because he had the bacles and other ones. A lot of them were his fault, A lot of them they weren't his fault. And we're judged on major championship but Rory's got four of them, so he's he knows how to win major championships. He won them,
he knows how to do it. I put Rory right there with one of the best players of all time. I don't think. I don't think yet his game management is as anywhere as near as good as Jackson Tigers. Greg had the Australian mentality. He was an Arnold Palmer, a gopher, broke of everything, and a lot of times he let his ability to have all that talent get in his way. And I think Rory has done that in the past few years. And I think he's getting
away from that now. He's starting to understand his own game a little better, you know, So we'll see what happens. But he is truly one of the best players he's ever lived. I mean, you can't say he isn't. Look at his record.
Going to the PGA. Give me some dark horses that you think could play well. I mean, obviously I think everybody's going to be looking at Scotty. I think everybody's going to be looking at Rory Brooks. Having just won again, He's going in there with a bunch of confidence. I was with him today. He's back to really feeling like he's playing good. He wasn't happy with the way he played at the Masters, So I think he's going to
be somebody they'll talk about. But give me some of the other players that you think could have a chance this week.
Well, I think the young Aberg kid. I'm not sure I'm pronounced his name right. I think he's phenomenal. I think he does. He have oh the length of time that I have learned how play.
And win a major, only a second major.
Yeah, I think the guy who plies under the radar the most, who hasn't won one, and it's hard to believe his Tommy Fleetwood. And I don't say that just because I work with him. I just know his game so well and how good he is. And you know, he could have won the Open Championship last he could have won the US Open Championship. He put himself in those positions, the putts didn't quite fall for him. He played beautifully at Augusta finished tied for third at Augusta.
If he puts it all as good as as Sephid that he would have been right there given him a chance. I think Tommy is a dark horse that you can look at. If I'm looking at some of these other players, you can't leave out Patrick Cantley because he's a good ball striker. He's a strange guy, but yet he has the talent to do it. Max Holmes's got the talent
to do it. If I look at some of the live guys that are playing there, Cam Smith, you've already said the rom we know books, we know if Terrel Haddon can keep a cool ahead about himself, I love that. I love this guy. I got to say something about terol at Terrell Hadton is what the game needs right now. The game the PGA Tour, for example, to me, these young players are so good, but the tour is driven by superstars and characters don't really have Chef was a superstar,
but he doesn't have that charisma the others half. Terrel Hatten's got it, man, He's got the other I wish there was a few more like that. I'm not saying that we need to keep a microphone around him all the time. But he gets a bad shot. But Doug gun Tom Bench is entertaining.
And how much does Tyrell Houghton reminds you of yourself when you played the tour?
Well, his demeanor reminds me of itself. Not this talent level I entered into talent. I love the guy and as you know, off the course, he's a nice guy. He just is passionate about what he does. And when he goes into these rent and ravens, it's usually about himself, not about anything else.
Oh no, he's not complaining about he rarely. I mean he'll complain about hitting the flag or getting a bad break, but normally the thing he's complaining the most about Tyrell on the golf course is Tyrol.
Yeah, and you look at you look at Bryson. Bryson is an odd duck. But Bryson's a hell of a player. I mean, you in the US Open, the Wing Poot, you can play golf. I'll tell you that. But see, we don't have these kind of guys anymore. We don't have these these out of the box kind of guys. We got to whole bunch of clones that all look the same. They're beautiful golfers, and I'm not taking it
away from them because they're phenomenal golfers. But the problem is you turn on the television and a normal PGA tour vet and you look at the top ten, you may only know one or two of these people because the really superstars haven't played that well at various times, so people turn it off, they go to something else. We need these guys that are a little bit of a character. I mean we had it in the old days. I mean you still have it on the Champions There
Tour with John Dadley. People love John Tiley. John Daily's, you know, poor guy, he can't get out of his own way. He's a tremendous talent. But we need stuff like that. We need characters, and I think the Living has kind of brought that in with the music and the way the guys have a good time out there and stuff. So there's there's a lot of things that I think need to happen in professional golf, But I think the overall first thing is we got to get
all the best players playing in the same event. And we're going to have that next week at Valhalla, and quite honestly, I can't wait to see what's going to happen.
Lastly, we'll see Tiger Woods hopefully again next week at Valhalla. We saw him play at Augusta. What do you think
we'll get from from t dub? I mean, is are we going to continue to get more of what we saw at Augusta to where you can obviously see that he'll have a day where he's fresh and looks like he has all the shots and looks like he's in command, and then halfway through the next round, it's like there's an expiry date on his body and his body just gives out on him, and you're thinking, man, if he can just finish this round and somehow finish this tournament's it's a win and a success for him.
Well, let's just kind of like it is anytime Tiger Woods plays. We like it because we don't know what's going to happen. We all know Tiger Woods. If he shows up to play, he's going to tell you I'm there because I think I have a chance to win. The downside is Claudie can't walk. Can he walk? Seventy two holes so far has proven that he can't, and That's a sad thing for me because I hate seeing Tiger Woods as great as he was. And really he seems to have put a lot of work on his
golf swing. I like the way he's swinging the club, what he's dealing with with his legs. He figured out how to offset that a little bit. So the talent level is still there. It's Tiger Woods. There's nobody's ever had more talent in the world. Look like golf of Tiger Woods. The problem is you got to walk seventy two holes and he just hasn't proved to himself. Forget proven anything to us. He didn't prove anything to us.
We know how great he was. I just hate seeing him going out there suffering and try and make himself believe he can still do this when I'm not sure he even believes he can walk seventy two holes. But we're gonna get it. We're going to get a look at it and see if he can. And you, you and I have been in Valholliver for it's hilly. There's a lot of hills and a lot of up and down there, and that's wear and tear on him. But
if he shows up, I know Tiger Woods. And I'm never gonna ever say he can't do something, because that was what I used to challenge him within the ten years I work with him. When I really wanted him to do something, I just tell him he couldn't do it, So let's move on to something else. What do you mean I can't do it? I told you probably could, but it would take a long time. No, let's show it to me. So you know, he's got his mind believing that he can, and he's used after his strength
his whole career. I just hope if he shows up, he could be healthy and he can enjoy his time out there. The fans love him, They love having him back. Television loves having him back once again. We'll just absolutely what happens.
Well, he famously won in a playoff at Valhall against Bob May. You were working with him then, what do you remember? What do you remember about that week?
Oh? I just remember the back nine that he played and then the playoff post. I mean it was just amazing. I mean you got to hint it to Bob May. Bob made did everything right. Bob May did not lose the PGA. Tiger Woods just beat him, and to lose the Tiger Woods, there's no excuse. But I've made made some great potts and hit some great shots. He'll be remembered the fact that the Tiger won. But to me, I and I was doing the broadcast for Sky, I was there at the time. Bob May was amazing. Tiger
coming down the stretch was amazing. I mean the puts he made on seventeen putty made on the last hole coming down that hill with that slider was unbelievable. After coming beautiful bunker shot coming out. I mean, there was some some cool stuff going on there. Valhalla is special. I remember the Ryder Cup when your man Anthony Kim who now on LIB was playing Sergio Garcia and that what was it the fourteenth hole or something? He won
the hole of clothing. No, he won. He'd racing to the next day and Jose Riya, one of the vice captains, had to say, no, hey, k wait a minute, you won the match. So there's I've got some cool memories at Valhalla, and I think we're going to see some more next week at least, I hope.
So all right, Well, great talking to you.
I think the stuff you're doing with Rory, Yeah, and if he'll listen to you with the wedge stuff, I mean, it'll definitely help him because he's I mean, he's seventy seventh and and starts gained approach. You can't win majors if you're Rory McElroy and be in the seventies in in hitting greens.
You've got to be one of When Rory McElroy is.
Playing his best, he is an elite iron player, and I think the work that you're trying to do will help him get back there.
Thanks for talking to us.
Always good to talk to you, and I'll give you some updates from the PGA.
All right, thanks for having men. Love you, buddy.
So some really good takes from Butcher there. And as I said in the in the opening, I mean the life that he has lived in the game of golf and the players that he's been lucky enough to work with. I thought he it's second to none, the record that he has, how many players he's helped win major championships. And I thought he also, you know, said some really good things, some clear thinking things about you know, the
game of golf. In twenty twenty four Live the PGA Tour, wear all the shakes out stuff like that, so always good to get.
His views on things.
And PGA Championship I can't wait for its start. Should be a good week Valhalla. Lots of storylines. Does Scotti Scheffler get another major championship? Can Rory get his first in ten years? I mean this is the last time he got one was in fourteen at Valhalla. Can John Rahm get another one? Can Brooks Keepker get another one? Can Max Homa and some of the guys that don't have one, can they get there first? Some great storylines.
I think the majors are the most important events in professional golf at the moment, regardless of what side of this debate you're on, But it seems to be the time that we're getting the best players from all the various tours. I think hats off to the guys Seth Wall and the guys at the PJ of America for giving invites out. I think it's that, you know, we try and find a way to make all this work as supposed to, try and find a way to make
it not work. Son of a which comes to you most Wednesdays, We will definitely see you next week.