Butch Harmon: Masters Preview

But m wanted to get kind of his ideas, kind of his thoughts on the twenty twenty three Masters, you know, a little bit about the golf course, kind of his thoughts on that, the favorites, and I think it's always good to get kind of Butche's kind of take. He's going to be doing TV for Sky this year. But I mean he's been a huge part of Augusta, you know, as a broadcaster, he's worked with players that have won there, and then obviously having a father that has won there

in the forties. It's it's kind of in my dad's DNA Augusta National and it's a special place for him. So let's sit back and enjoy listening to his thoughts on the upcoming twenty twenty three Masters. All right, Dad, So we did this last year. I think we're gonna make this a annual event for Augusta. What is it about Augusta, Dad that is so I guess special? That

makes it so much different? Is it because it's the first major championship of the year, the fact that they go there every time, But it just seems like, unlike any other major, the buzz around going to august every year is completely different than the rest of them. Well, first of all, it is the first one of the year. It's always been an Augusta National, the most iconic place for a major championship because we've all seen it for all these years on TV. And it's also a very

small field. I think only eighty nine players this year. So those guys cherish that invitation when they get one because it's some place they want to be. They want to be there this time of year. And then the golf course, you know, the golf course is iconic, it's beautiful, it changes every year. It lends itself to heroics on the back nine. You know the old adage that the Master's done to start until the back nine on Sunday, Well,

that's that's true. You know, we think about all the great things we've seen to happen in the disasters we've seen happen. We've seen all of that, and you tie all that into one thing and it's just the Masters. And besides that, it's the finest run event in the world, not just a sporting event. There's no event in the world run. It is properly as first class and as

good as August is. You would think that with the fact that it's at the same golf course every year, the fact that you know where everything, even if you've never been there, you've you can have watched it so many times, you would think that it would I'm not saying would be an easy place to add to win, but it's definitely a place that I think you can become incredibly knew you're win. Would you agree, absolutely? Fuzzies Ella was really, in modern times, the only first time

winner that's ever happened. He wanted a playoff, if you remember. But you know there's something about the place is they change something every year. You'll see the part three courses completely different. Now they've redone the whole thing. They change certain spots on the greens. Thirteenth tea is a new tea. They moved it back almost forty yards. Jack Nichols has said that he thinks the Masters is the easiest of the four Majors to win, the reason being number one,

they invite all the former champions. They invite a lot of the amateur winners, so you know that eliminates about half the field, and then the next half of that half our guys that probably aren't going to win have never played it in major before, so then you come down to maybe only ten or twelve guys that you really have to battle to win. So Jack always said, yes, it's the first Masters, but it was the easiest one because the field was smaller and who the field is now.

Having said that, the cream changes arrives to the top, you were just I think, what were you there about two three months ago? I mean you got to see the changes at thirteen DJ and both Patrick Reid and Harold Barner said they were up there. Recently said there's been a little bit of a change kind of to the middle of the seventh green. They kind of raised it up, made it not so severe. But obviously the big talk this year is going to be what the

changes have been at thirteen. What did you notice, I mean, other than that it's way the hell back there. Now, well that's a shoot, it's narrow, it's back about forty yards and where it was. We played in November, my brothers and I and let's see, Tony Fein now played in the group behind us one day, so I asked him, I said, what did you have in the thirteen? He says, I hit a really good drive and I had two or five to the front and had to hit a

four act. You know, they were hitting six and seven irons and there over four some of them that would go over the trees. Well, going over the trees is out of the question, and you almost have to. You can actually hit it just straight out right right at the corner of the pine straw and the trees up there, and if it draws a little, it goes down, but it's going to be a longer shot into the green.

And that was the whole idea that they wanted to make it where it was back to where you're you're not hitting a eight or nine iron or seven iron or a part five. They want to make it where you have to hit a good drive. Now, if you turn it, you can get it down on the flat spot on the left but then you bring in the creek, which is another problem. If you hit it in the creek, then you're taking birdie out of the question. But it's going to be still challenging. It's just going to be

a longer shot into the green. For everybody that's listening to that hasn't been there, the difference between the way that it's probably going to play now, even some of the longer hitters. DJ said he didn't think that he could cut any off. He's either going to have to hit a three wood. But the difference for people that haven't played there, that don't don't understand it four iron, five iron versus going in with six, seven or eight.

What does that mean for the player, Well, it means it may take away as many eagles as we're used to seeing there. It'll bring in a little more disaster with a creek in front of the green because as you know that that green runs from the left side to the right side at an angle, it's probably i'd say fifteen to twenty yards longer from the front left pin to the right pin because of the angle of

the green. Then you bring in the slope of the fairway, which if you've never been there or never played there. You have no idea how severe that slope is. And so now you're sitting there and you're afraid to hit a hook off of that slope. So you cut it a little and you know, hit it solid and hangs out to the right, the ball goes in the creek. So I think it's going to be more exciting. I think we're gonna see as many more disasters as we are are used to seeing, and it's it's going to

be interesting. It's still reachable. You know how these tour players are. They get upset when they have to hit a four or five hours and they think that's oh my gosh, because they hit a four or five hourn about two hundred and thirty yards. So I mean it's I get the biggest kick out of listen to the oh you know I had to hit a five iron to this. Ah yeah, well back there with the three wooden can't get their prows. So it was funny were

walking around the course this week and Slugger White. It was a long time PGA tour officials sets up all there's a par three on this course downhill, you know, the fifteenth hole and the you know downhill's probably gonna play down wind and the green is really really difficult. And in the practice rounds dead typical tour player, they're all going up to Slugger and saying, hey, don't put the pin over here, don't put the pin over here.

And further to your point, Slugger said, you know you don't have to aim at all these pins, right, you don't have to go at every one of these flags. Give us some holes dead. Obviously, everybody knows the iconic holes around Augusta National. But give me a couple holes on the front that you think are key holes that maybe don't get a bunch of, you know, fanfare, and then key holes on the back that you think that a couple holes on the front, a couple holes in

the back. You feel like if you can take advantage of these holes, it really gives you kind of a step up on what everybody else is doing. Well, believe it or not, one of the most difficult holes on the front line is the very first hole. Every year, it plays almost the hardest holl. Now it's not the longest part four the fairway is pretty wide, but it's an anxiety thing. The guys are all anxious to get started, and they hit bad drives, and that green can get

pretty severe with the slopes in it and stuff. So number one is you wouldn't think of it when you look at the yardage for these guys. You know, four forty five or what is that's nothing for these guys. But it's a difficult hole. It's a difficult starting hole. The fourth hole is a great part three, I mean, just a wonderful print. They can stretch that out to about two twenty five, two thirty. They can get it.

And now they have a lower tea which they will play one day out of the four and then it's only eight or nine nine or something. But that green, especially around to the right over that bunker, can get very difficult. And then the next toll. The fifth hole is probably one of the hardest holes in the golf course.

I mean, it's a hard hole. Then moved the tea back fifty yards a few years ago and so, and they've built another flat spot up on the left side, back kind of left portion of the green, which is a pin. It's so hard to get to. You got to take the ball up the slope. Then you got a bunker right over the green. The fifth hole is just really really a hard hole. The one hole. I wish they would go back to the way it used

to be in the old days of seven. I think they've made seven too long for a green that's small because it's built to hit up a wedge or something like that to the green, and now you hit it down there and sometimes you can hit six iron to the screen. It's a little windy and stuff, so you can never the tea up and I think if they moved the tea up and tempt them to try and drive it, you'd see as many double bogies as you

would birdies, just because the guys would try it. I think that's one of the greens if you've never been to Augusta National the seventh green, when you actually go up and you stand behind it, how much it's pitched from back to front. That back portion and then those two distinct it kind of has a little kind of

spine right in the middle. And that was one of the things that Patrick Greed told me that they've softened a little bit because there's two kind of distinct areas at the bottom, both to the right and to the left. And I just think that green has so much slope to it, and if you get dead on the wrong side of it, if you're on the left side trying to pot all the way across to a pin that's front right, I mean, not as a very treacherous, treacherous

green to try and navigate. Well, they have flattened a spot out there in the back. They've taken that slope outwards, not near as severe. But once again, like I said, that green was built to hit a wedge too, and guys are back there with seven and eight irons and six irons, and then if you don't drive it down there far enough, you're on a downhill lie to a greenness above you. So it's it's a difficult hole compared to what it was supposed to be the way it

was built. I would love to see him move it up, just because guys would try and drive it, or try and drive it in the right bunk in the front bunkers, but it would bring in a lot more disaster. But it is what it is, and it used to be when you walked off the back of the sixth Green, the tea was right there. Now you walk off the back of the sixth Green and you go thirty forty

yards to the to the left. The golf course that your dad won in the forties is the golf course today, design wise, unrecognizable, And that is the golf course today, conditions wise, the agronomy, the way that they're able to get golf courses today. It's do you think it's polls, I mean miles apart or do you think there's still some similarities now? I think there's a lot of simularities. The link has changed, But then again, equipment has changed. You know what. One day, I like that they do

it Augusta National. These changes on these holds where they add teas, they're trying to bring the hold back to the way they're originally designed. Instead of being able to because they drive it so far these days, instead of being able to hit a wedge or nine iron to every hole apart four, they're trying to make it where you're back they're hitting five and six irons, which is the way it was back in the forties and the fifties and the sixties. And I think they've done a

really good job of that. Now the players are so much better than today than they were because of equipment reasons. The ball goes further, doesn't curve as much. So I think they're they're trying to change these holes to make them where it's just not a drive in a wedge. You're driving a nine iron driving iron where we have to hit a four or five or six iron. I think the thing that I'm marvel at the last few years is how well Bernhard language has played there. He's

six or five years old. Guy made the cut. I mean he's hitting Highbreds and woods and the holes guys whore hitting eight irons on. It's pretty impressive when you think about it. You've been going to Augusta basically your whole life. You've helped Tiger Woods win around there. You've helped Phil Nicholson went around there. You helped grag as much as you can't help anybody have a chance to win there. So the obvious question, Dad, what is it? What does it take from a game standpoint? But what

does it take from a mental standpoint? Well, local knowledge is use huge it Augusta, because you're very seldom shooted a flat where they put the pins and the slopes and these greens. If the pins over here in the left, you might slope hit their shot to the right to catch the slope to go down there. We see it on sixteen all the time on Sunday with that back left pin there. How they shoot it up into the middle of the green and use the slope to bring it down where there's a lot of holes like that.

It's why first timer is very seldom contend to win there because there's so much local knowledge involved. Then the pitching around the green is very difficult those areas, and there's a lot of runoff slope. The areas around the greens is cut so firmly and so tight, and then you're pitching into the green that you have to change and you're on a little uphill eye most of the

time you're changing the way you pitch balls. So it takes a lot of not only local knowledge, but knowledge on how to play some of these shots and definitely

how to play some of the holes. Do you feel like it's a golf course set ask questions of your game or as much as ask questions of your mental thinking, because it always teams like there are shots that if you've watched there a long time, if you've been there a long time, when you're commentating like you are, players will hit it in places and everybody sitting around you will go, he's making bogey. Now, well, there's a lot of that out there, there's no doubt. That's why I

say local knowledge is so important. The examination is do you have control if you can drive the ball good around and got to of course obviously gets a little easier, especially the par fives, But do you have total control of your iron game? Meaning do you have control of the distance you're hitting every shot. One of the things that I used to think set Tiger aside from everybody else is when you watched him play, how many times do you hit the ball exactly pin high, exactly pin?

I mean he had total control of his iron game going into these greens, and they're not easy greens to get the ball close to. They're big enough where they're easy to hit, but you can get in some areas where it's impossible to tu punch. So I think if you have control of your iron game and you're driving the ball pretty well, you're gonna have good chance there. The other thing is we always say we tell guys that, Okay, I used to tell my paryers, I got one hundred.

If you don't three pot one green seventy two holes. I think tiger Wood is the only one ever did it, which is so for everyone listening that hasn't played there, or if they haven't been there. The test of the greens, I mean some of the greens, I mean it's it's controversial to say, but some of the greens there are putting it nicely, would say they are severe. The sixth green, the fifth green, the fourteenth green. But the test that the greens demand of you as a potter, what do

you feel like those are? Well, first of all, you have to have tremendous field because you're going to have long pots, and these greens are normally around thirteen and a half on the step meter. And then you put the slopes in there on some of them and they just get brutal. So you've got a number one, put your second shot in the right place where you can avoid some of these areas. But I think you look at it and the greens have pretty much been the

same to the whole existence. They just because of agronomy, they've gotten faster and stuff like that. You know, maybe if you've built that those greens today on some courses, some people would say, no, that's ridiculous, it's too severe. But it's the Masters, It's Augusta National. It's always been that way. That's part of what it is there, and it's part of a big part that the players have

to learn how to conquer. In the practice rounds, they literally have to spend a lot of time hitting long pots across the greens to get the feeling of the slopes, get the feeling of the speed a guy. You know, first of all, you can say, if you don't put good, you're not going to win a tournament anyway. But to win the Masters, you have to really put good. Jack Nicholas won there. I mean, he and Tiger have dominated

there so much. Do you feel like they play a similar type of game mentally in that they have always been willing to let everybody else beat themselves as opposed to I mean, when Tiger won in nineteen on Sunday, he makes one birdie all day long. You know that, everybody knows that. You know, he watched everybody in front of him on twelve rinse it into the water and make double, and he aimed left of the green there and just dumped it to the middle of the green

and got out of there. Jack had that type of ability to control his iron shots, but also mentally, Jack talked a lot about letting everyone else beat them. I think more so than any major we see, Augusta forces you in almost it wants you to beat yourself mentally, to get ahead of yourself, to not stay in the moment.

Would you agree, Oh, definitely. And first of all, we're talking about two greatest players that have ever played, Jack Nichols and Tiger Woods, and they are similar in that regard, as both of them are two of the best mental strengths they have, and the ability to just dump the ball in the middle of the green when you have to and not get caught up in the little tricks around Augusta where they can put the pins where if you miss it on the wrong side, you almost have

no chance of getting up and down. And you have to know all that when you play. And those two were the best in the world, the best players, the best thinkers, the best putter's mentally stronger than anyone else. The difference between Jack and Tiger was Jack would be content to win by one or two shots. If he had the lead going out on Sunday, He's going to dump the ball in the middle of the green or only take on pins that he has a chance because if he's leading, he knew that you had to do

something crazy to come get him. And then if you get up there, then he takes some chances and stuff. Tiger just goes out and wants to tear the golf course apart. I mean, he can play conservatively, even though it doesn't look like it's conservative, because it's a conservative for him because he's so aggressive. But he's also smart enough and he knows that place so well. He knows how to get around there, and that's the big key watching these guys get around this course. So obviously Tiger's

playing what do we expect from him? And we haven't seen him a lot. We haven't seen him play a lot. When we have seen him play, it's it's not what we're used to seeing. What kind of chances do you give tar I mean, Hank Kney, I've listened to him on his podcast. Hank thinks that Augusta is one of the chances Tiger has to win not only another tournament, but win another major. Would you agree? I don't know if I agree with that or not. I'd love to

see it happen. And I would never tell Tiger Woods he can't do anything, because he will prove you wrong. But it's it's a hard walk when you're healthy. It's a very hard walk when you're healthy. And you know, we know that he struggles walking. He can play in a card and play phenomenal, but you have to walk Augusta, and there's so many uphills and down hills and side hills.

There's a lot of things. If you remember last year when he made the cut, the poor guy looked like he was just about to die walking off the seventy second old. I thought that was one of the greatest feats of all time, that he made it seventy two holes there. What kind of shape is he in this year. I don't know. You may have heard from the guys that play with him down there in Florida. I know his swing looks good, his game looks good. I know

how competitive he is. I just don't know physically if he's gonna be able to go seventy two holes and be at its best. I certainly hope so, because it's a hell of a lot more exciting when he's in the mix. Let's talk about some of the favorites Dad in twenty twenty three, How the hell has Rory McElroy not one a green jacket. You couldn't design a golf course that is more made for a player than Augusta National has made for Rory, And every element of Rory's

game sets up perfectly for Augusta Nashville. Well, if you look at the two three best players in the world, you know, you look at Scottish Sheffer, you look at Rory, you look at John Romm, They're the three best players in the world. I'm gonna go out on a limb right now. I think Rory mcclroy is gonna win the Masters this year. He's my pick. I'm gonna I will say it. I'll say when I'm on Sky during the week. I actually think he has playing as good as he's

ever played. With a new Scottie Cameron putter that he switched to. He putted beautifully into match play. He's the best driver in the game when his game is there, and I think his game is coming together, and I really think this is going to be his week. Now. Having said that, those three top guys had just dominated golf unbelievable, and John ram I mean, he may be the best player in the world. Who knows. I mean, he's been unbelievable. Scottish Cheffler. Eighteen months ago, a lot

of people didn't know who he was. Now he's defending Master Champion, he's won four or five times. He's just run off. He's the number one player in the world. It's impressive. His coach Randy Smith, who's a good friend of mine. I commend Randy tremendously for the work he's done with Scottish Cheffler. It's unbelievable. But I think this is Rory's year. I really do. I know I'm going out on the limb. No, I will not take Rory and give you the field. That's not going to happen.

I just feel it's his time. I mean, you're not really, I mean, come on, going out on the limb. You're kicking Rory mac Roy to win around the ghost. I mean, I mean, that's as much of a layup as it is. Dad. What does he have to do to win that he hasn't done before? Control his mind, control his mind, stay in the moment, don't get ahead, don't get behind. The two best players again that we've ever had Jack Nicholas and tiger woods. The last shot never happened. As soon

as they've hit it good or bad, it's gone. They move on to the next one. If Rory can control his mind and drive the ball the way you and I know he can drive, he's one of the guys that can make this golf course look easier. And with some of these new teas, the fact that his natural shot is a draw and not a fade, that's going to help him. Normally, I wouldn't say that because faders have won the Masters a lot, but now as some of these new teas, thirteen especially, you've got to take

it right to laft Or. And like you said a few months ago, when DJ needs to hit a drying and hit a driver, he hits the three wood because he can draw it better. So Roy's just Rory. I mean, we've been saying this a long time. How has he not won the Master him? And he's had his chances

and he's blown him. You remember a few years ago he was leading, all of a sudden the tent total jumped up and grabbed him and he went sideways like Greg did and that way back and when he lost his you know, but it's it's just it's the Masters, it's the first major and the other thing that people

don't talk about. It's probably the greatest fraternity in golf to be in that locker room upstairs, in the real cuphouse, the main cuphouse, because everybody else is in another building down to the left, and everybody wants to be in that locker room. They all want that green jacket, and we're about to find out who's going to get it. Well.

One of the things I think that Rory, I mean, you just couldn't believe in twenty fourteen if somebody told you in twenty twenty three, Roy McElroy and Brooks Keptko would have the same amount of majors, because in fourteen Brooks had none and Rory was winning him all the time. It seems like at times he's put himself behind the eight ball and not gotten off to a good start. He's kind of had that first round where he's overpower and then he has to press You and I both

know that. Augusta and the way they set the golf course up, it is a hard golf course to go out and press on. A lot of people don't know Dad how they set the golf course up. I know you, I mean, you know you have so many friends that are part of that. Talk a little bit about how they set it up and how they want it to be set up Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Well, they can kind of control the flow of the tournament. They

have subair systems in the green. We're gonna have rain this week for the Masters, and but they can suck that water right out of the greens overnight. You'll hear those those subair things going when you walk around. They can create a golf course that will either let you have a chance to shoot real low or give you a chance not to shoot solo. They like the error in the middle, unlike the USGA, who will tell you they want part to be the barometer and see who

can do it. August is not that they like to set it up where it's exciting, but fair as fair as it can be on some of those screens, because there's not a lot of flat spots and that's what you need, and so that that part of it plays into it. But I think it's always exciting. I mean, it's it's it goes back to what we said it is the first major of the year. It's always in the same place. Can you imagine if the Open Championship, which I love, has always played at Saint Andrew's that

would be amazing. Now, then the courses are great, don't don't get to be wrong, and it's not going to happen. But if it was just always at Saint Andrews, it would be cash it would be even better. Do you think they have similar to the USA? The USGA loves it when nobody's under par and everybody's over par. Do you think that the Paris would be at Augusta dott have an idea of a score that they have in

mind that they want. Yeah. I think they look at what the weather conditions are going to be, what the conditions of course are going to be. Actually win plays a huge part at this golf course. They look at that in advance. They have done all their homer They have had every shot charted that's ever been hit there in the last twenty five thirty yards on every every hole,

every fair way. They know exactly where the balls go, they know how everything acts on the greens, and they have total control of that because of the fact it's always played there. And I don't think they set it up like the USGA. They don't have a problem with guys shooting under par. They just want to set it up where it's fair. It's difficult, but it gives you a chance if you can control your ball and if you can put to have a chance to make birdies

and eagles. Yeah. And I think that if you look at the players that have won there before, talk to me about the rolled out of the caddies at Augusta, because I think if you look at you know, I mean the partnership of Tiger and Stevie, you know fill and Bones, you know Nicholas and all his great caddies.

But even Adam Scott talks, you know, he's been talking a lot, you know, leading up to this about when he won there where Stevie Williams called him off and said, no, no. The role of the caddy there because the winds can swirl around, it is kind of a a tournament where that relationship I think is really important. Oh, there's no doubt about it. And it's a trust factor. It's a

trust factor and the player and the caddies. There's a few guys going in there this year with new caddies, and that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. You know, that's going to be interesting to see what happens there. Most of the guys that are in contention have played a lot of Masters. Like I said, there's only been one first time winner since the first one started, obviously, and that was Fuzzy many many years ago. So it's hard to be a first time winner there.

And you've got to have a caddy that really understands the nuances of the golf course, the places where you can hit at the places you can't hit it. Caddies play a huge part every week, a gigantic part at the Masters. You said they've completely redesigned the Part three tournament for people that have never been to Augusta. I mean not. Part three is as cool as as it comes. I mean it is such a cool, cool part of the golf course, but also a huge part of the tradition.

Your dad made back to back holer ones sure did, yeah about in the sixties. Yeah, and which holes? I told them me as the dad, You're the only guy I know you played a nine hole course. You made two aces, and you didn't win the tournament. I said, I'm sure that you know what's going to well, you know, you know what he said to me. So what do you shoot that day? Oh yeah, that's right. You're not in the Masters to get it. But the new Part

three design is spectacular. They've changed The last three holes are pretty much the same, but they've changed all the others and there's big mounding around it. You can stand on every tea and every green and see just about every hole on the course. So spectacular For the spectators, it's just another thing that they do there that's just separate than others, and this makes them special. Um, Live

guys playing at Augusta. I mean it's going to be the first major, you know since Live had their first season, all that bullshit and drama. Where do you think, where do you think we're gonna get me all that? I don't think there's going to be any drama at all. I think the Live players, I think there's eighteen of them playing, their six former champions playing there. I think out of respect to the Masters and what it is, I think you're gonna here see the guys handle it

very well. And I wouldn't surprise me that every time in a press conference some of them ask them about to live. Their aunts would be you know, I'm here to playing the Masters. Let's talk about that. At least that's the way I hope it is. Now. What you you know, you hear all this animosity that these players they hate each other and stuff. Well, where you live

down there? There must be thirty something tour pros live down there, and a bunch of them are on live and they all play with these guys when they're home. So there isn't The press wants to make this out more than anyone, And I think between Greg and Monahan, they've kind of thrown fuel on the fire too. I think the guys just want to play off, and I think you're going to see that at Augusta. So that was part one of kind of Augusta Masters preview show.

Kind of got some good stuff there from Butch about his thoughts on what he kind of who the favorites are, a little bit about the golf course. He's obviously played the golf course recently, so who better to talk about the changes. He's actually seen them firsthand, but always fascinating to kind of get his take. Tomorrow, it will be a kind of ask Butch where he answers your questions. You're not gonna want to miss that as well, So two episodes this week, a little preview show today and

then a little butch answers your questions tomorrow. So make sure you join us again tomorrow, Son of a which comes to you every Wednesday. We'll see everyone tomorrow.