What Osher Günsberg did next

Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit down with some of the biggest names in the country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About. It's been a big year for Osher Ginsburg. In March, he turned fifty. Two months later, in May, it was announced that the two shows he's been hosting for several years, The Bachelor and The Mask Singer,

You might book that big show for one day, that's showsking it canceled unless you're hosting the six colt news that format one day people are gonna watch it anymore.

So what are you going to do then? And you'd better be ready for that day?

With his usual candor, Osher joins me on something to talk about today, to chat about how he learned to be better prepared for life to change on a dime, the personal health struggles he chronicles in his new documentary A World of Pain, and what might draw him back to television permanently one day. Washa Ginsburg, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast.

Thanks for having me.

It is lovely to have you here.

Though you know there's a lot of cameras for your house.

There are a lot of cameras. There's a lot of heat radiating from these lights as well. I would love if you would join us at some point as a consultant director. I have to say, listeners, Osha has come in and is just in thirty seconds in a really good natured, graceful, effortless way, has just tweaked things. I'm like, hire this man immediately.

I've been in broadcasting since so for thirty years I've been in broadcasting, and I was a roadie before that, which is one of the reasons that we're hearing age now. But if you're able to add value at every point, you're going to be okay in your career. Even at the moment when I don't have a regular TV gig. If I can show up and add value, then you're a valuable person to be around.

Well, I love it and it certainly worked its magic here. I really do mean that. I think to come into somebody's orbit and workspace and add value is you want to do literally in.

Value without downgrading what is already happening.

You mentioned that you've been in broadcasting for thirty years, when you have had the inevitable highs and lows during that time. One of the periods, of course, this year, was back in May you lost two jobs.

In my old Well, that's when I talked about it. I knew it was happening six months earlier you did.

And I love this because you were sort of preparing for it as well. So for obviously just to catch up our audience. And we're talking about the Mask Singer and The Bachelor being announced to Australia that they would be no more on the one day, and of course, Osha, you had been the steady face of both of those, I mean The Bachelor for ten years, a Bachelor Australia. You were the founding host of that show and the heartbeat literally of that show to it's many incarnation heartbeat.

Well, it's like, you know, if you play an RL, if you play rugby league, all right, you may be nineteen and you may be getting picked all the time, you might even make the Origin team. Yet you know there's no thirty eight year olds playing. There's not one ACL or MCL or shoulder that still exists unscathed than any of those people who've finished. At some point, you've got to think about, well, if I make it to that point where I get to retire under my own terms,

What do I do then? All right, and you have.

To be thinking about that all the time, not like you want to be focusing on what you're making, but you also have to kind of be aware that should you not have Like I like to talk about this when I go and speak to people about keeping your brain on, you know in the green zone when you're working. The antidote to panic is a plan.

Okay.

My former manager's passed away now called John Ferreder. He used to say, you may book that big show, but one day that show is going to get canceled because no matter so even if, like unless you're hosting the six o'clock news that format, one day people are gonna watch it anymore. So what are you going to do then? And you better be ready for that day. Now I have been unready for that day. I know what that's like to be not prepared. I never wanted to do

Yeah, but I was a.

Single man when I started making that TV show, and then I had a girlfriend who had a kid, and then I had a fiance who had a kid. And then I had a step dorder and a wife, and then I had a wife and a step daughter and a son, and then that all, you know, things very different. So that plan does need to change with you as you go. But you always need to think, Okay, look ahead,

Know how to do that. So hire an account that does.

And that pays itself off. But if you give yourself that space, you know you're and you take the time and you make the sacrifices you need to make to put that cash aside, that runway aside. What you buy is something you cannot afford any other time in the world you are buying something completely available in that as the time to make a choice, a time that is not driven by any kind of desperation. I've been in

I don't know how to do anything else, so this is it.

It's also about in life in general. None of us can ever predict or control what's around the corner, professionally or personally, or in the wider global environment around us. But we can only learn to control our reaction to it. And you turn fifty early this year, late happy birthday, by the way. To have that sense of whatever you want to call it, agility resilience has got to be probably the greatest gift that you could hope for at any point in your life.

It's pretty lucky. I'm pretty lucky I learned how to do it.

I didn't know how to do this long time ago, and setbacks would just sideline me completely and it was it was bad, you know, I let this stuff destroy me.

And there was a whole period when.

I lived in America about ten years, and I would go to meetings and I would have this idea, like, there's these rules of show business and one of them came from Charlie Clauson, the actor and podcaster.

It's either a fast yes or a slow no. And as the nose.

Start to get slower and slower, that's your clue. As the yes is slow down, you're like, they're not that into it, all right. And so I used to get a fast yes in a meeting in the room all the time.

But I was walking around with a stink of desperation on me.

And I would take meetings with people I work really hard to get these meetings a big heavy hitters about you know, hosting TV shows or you know format se I was creating, and they would just passing the room man, And that never happened in my career.

It's like, what am.

I bringing to this? Because the idea is good, what am I bringing to this? And I had to really have a look at myself. I was like, I'm walking in with this sense of this is everything, Please are yes to me, and nobody wants that. You know, people don't want to be the one that's pulling you out of them, you know, out of the meyer and true. Nobody wants to rescue anybody. And I was walking in with please save this, save me, save me, save me, and nobody wants that.

Nobody wants to work with that person.

So I had to kind of figure out how to not do that, which I did.

But yeah, I'm grateful that I don't really have that now.

I want to go back a little bit to the Bachelor event of that turning point in your life. You mentioned that's where you met your wife ten years ago now to fourteen, and you have a copiring a stepdaughter with her, and you have a son who's turning six I think soon, Wolfgang, that is a huge part of I imagine what you associate with that professional time in your life. But the Osha Ginsburg that's come out the other side of that experience of the Bachelor Australia is this extremely resilient,

That I reckon pretty soon after I got to the point of the way I approached my work. Now, right after all that stuff happened, all that, you know, being told no in the room. It took a lot of work, and you know, I had to hear a lot of things that were very uncomfortable to hear from people I had my best interests at heart, but people who are like, i'll tell you why, you're ready to hear it, And I didn't want to hear it.

But I wasn't ready to hear it.

But I heard it, I was like, okay, And I think it's having this humility to accept that my ideas are no longer getting what I want out of life, and that this is the best ideas I've had so far, and the best ideas of has a very getting people to say no to me in the room when it comes to, you know, looking for work or something like that. So I might have to listen to someone else's ideas because mine, I'm out, this is the best I can do, and that.

With anything right.

And so once I started listening to those ideas and started actively going.

Well, I know what happens if I do things this way.

I'm going to actively try to do things this way because I already know how that works out, so I can always got back to that if I want.

It's not going where I want to go, though, can me try this? See what happens?

And that led to I mean, this is also part of fourteen and a half years or a little bit more of being sober. It's a very different way of approaching life and a very different wave of approaching my work and how thinking about how it is that I show up to a job and how it is who I get to be when I go and work with

When I met Ordinary.

And it was very different experience at work and I love you know, I loved it.

It's very much a way of.

A There's a cover band that's created out of a bunch of southern Northern Californian punk bands called Me First in the GIMMI gimmis, and it was very previous to stopping drinking musing. That was definitely that, all right, I was definitely this. But now I if I could show up to work and my only my only goal is to be just the most professional person that I can be, and I just want to try to make everyone else's day as easy as it can be, all Right.

I kind of got this from when I first worked in television. I was twenty five.

I've got a hired channel V which is now no longer existing music channel, and my boss, who I met for my first ever interview, she goes, right, what I want for you when you leave here, for people to say, where the fuck did you come from? And that kind of and that's just the way that they hired people.

You've got to be where the cameras are going. You know, you got to do it.

You don't mess around with your microphone, Know your words, Know exactly what the producers and the editorial team wanting to get out of this exact moment. Know exactly where you're going next, what you just come from. Once, if you fixed your hair and your wardrobe, don't touch it.

Don't touch your hair again.

Don't touch your clothes again because others, someone's going to have to come sort it out and then nail it and then they go, oh, we're done, that's lunch everyone. You're like, great, And if I do all those things for all these people, what am I to me doing. I'm actually I end up doing a really great job. But I'm not doing it because I want to look great. I'm doing it because I want us all to have a great day and because we all make this thing together.

I want to talk to you while you're about gender politics because you're a big champion of women, and that was evident on the show, and I know is very much evident as you've just really talked about a lot of those people that you've supported and nurtured have been women who have now moved on to really amazing careers. I loved The Bachelor Australia. I remember every moment of twenty thirteen. I thought Bachelor was pretty sexist format, but

I can see where you're trying to go.

But for any cultural product to work, it needs to be relatable to the people who are consuming that cultural product. You know, you would not want to put a primetime TV show about the Bundesliga on in Australia because culturally domestic German football isn't I mean, we understand it. Yeah, there's the ball that goes in there. People get excited,

It reflects who we are as a community.

So you mentioned the word sexist and you won't mention the word gender politics. I think that is in itself is a reflection on where we are as a community or where we were as a community in twenty fifteen, and that begins a conversation that we need to kind of have And so I think I'm really grateful that.

If there's anything about you know, formats.

Like that, is they they allow you to almost Trojan Horse conversations that the otherwise wouldn't have. So dr Amy Tunique is in brook Blatant season, doctor Ami thy Nich was a Brook's best mate, is Brook's best mate and thirteen words She asked both the final two if I asked you what country you grew up on or will you live right now?

Could you tell me what it was?

And both of them said no, that simple question made it into primetime television. This is years before the voice referendum or anything like that. That in itself, framed in that direction, was like, actually, I don't know, huh, And now you kind of having a conversation about I guess, yeah, there would have been people here and that hill and that stream and you know that bay or whatever. Yeah, ah, whichever way you feel about this, at least it opens

Absolutely?

Yet fifty years ago, and that's my lifetime, nineteen seventy four I was born. You can go from what was that to a woman can be a CEO, a mother, hot, sultry, powerfully sexy, not sexy at all, clam drab, entrepreneur, all of these things at once, none of these things at once, and they're all We have permission for all of it, all.

Right, we have names for all of it.

I we mentioned before we started rolling, but I gave a high and a cuddle to one of like the full megapower humans of like she's unbelievable. She works in this building and she would not have ever had that job, you know, fifty years ago, never would It wouldn't be like, oh, really, we're going to walk on the Moon's true luck, buddy. And but yet, so we've expanded the definition of what it means to be a woman in our community, Yet the definition of what it is to be a man in our community.

Is like I am alone wolf that eats what I.

Kill or.

And there's no in between.

And if you give men nowhere to go, if you give men nowhere to to exist in this space, then what happens right where? But normal, you know, all those things I mentioned, all those mentioned things I mentioned before are absolutely normal, healthy expressions of femininity.

There are absolutely normal, healthy expressions of masculinity as well. But if we label them as as it's toxic.

No, it's just that's literal and not And boys being boys has been like there's that's a phrase that's kind of been misconstrued in recent times. Like and I'm sure you would have known this, like when g was little, she's twenty now, it was before I got there, but she was two tuos and fairies and from day.

Dot right before Wolfgang could walk.

Right, he's just like walking up to stuff, you know, and orders like what what the what? Like bambam as of Flinstone's character from the sixties, but oh yeah, boys, that's boys. They just pushed stuff over and each other, and it is what it means to be with that chromosotal you know, hormonal makeup. It's a different behavior set

I remember what it was like to how old your kids.

Now Marbo's are fifteen and thirteen, right.

So you know one summer they were fiftep and then the next summer like, oh, you're essentially driving a D nine bulldozer when you don't even have a learners permit.

You have this enormous suit of.

Like, suddenly, I remember what it was like you suddenly in six months you have fifteen kilos heavier. You have a tussle with your brother and you put him through a wall. You didn't mean to, but oh I didn't know that I had this now, and if you haven't been taught what to do with that, that's you can

To be with it.

But if we label all of it is bad, then who they are is bad, and then what do they get And then we start to driving them in these weird dark corners where someone's.

Going, You're just fine. The rest of the world's shit. You know, you're in the really dangerous YouTube years.

You're in the years where your sons will be fed shit on YouTube that you would never approve of, but they look at it and go, oh, he's got cool cars, those chicks are height. Oh yeah, I'll grab that PDF, Yeah I want that, and he, you know, he says, I'm all right.

Like because it's been hijacked.

Because as young men, Maggie Dent talks about this quite a bit, we are wired to seek out a father age mentor that is not related to us. So we're wired to look for someone. Some people can be a teacher, it could be a football coach, you know. But if those people aren't around, we'll just start following the instructions of another person who's around our parents' age.

Yeah, at that era, and it's so dangerous.

There's a vacuum for role models. Someone will fill it. And coming up, Osha opens up about what it's like living with chronic pain and what's next post The Bachelor. It's so interesting because you have these really important conversations on your podcast Better than Yesterday. And one of the things you've also discussed on your podcast over the years, Osha, is your experience with chronic pain as a result of osteoarthritis,

Right, Well, we talked about the reality stuff that I've been a part of making. But I'm an award winning documentary filmmaker. The first film that we made, me and my production partners, a leon one like The Oscar of Asia, won the Asian Film Academy, like it's Hugh among It's the one we made The Matter of Love and Death. And so, you know, these things help getting a second one off the ground. So when it came to making a second one, I was staggered with how much chronic

Got osteosrits in my thirties. I got lucky with that.

And because I'm a you know, white Australian mail I heard the first doctor say, yeah, your hips. He put the X ray on. The thing went hips cooked, dishes. Come and see me ten years ago. Yeah, you'll need a replacement. You're gonna have stop running. And at the time, I'm running ten k's every day. This is what I did. I just ran ten k's over it. I'd run a half marathon on the weekends just for fun. Just that was my run on the weekend. It's just twenty one

And they just basically say you when you can't sleep through the night anymore. Come come see me. And Wolf had just got.

Born, and I knew how much running around I had to do. You don't want to be the old dad, is like, you go kick the balls on. I'll be here going with a hot pack and my stories.

So the fuck it. I get it done.

And look, every surgery's got risk. I'm willing to accept risk. I ride bicycle wherever I can to commute, and so I'm willing to accept the risk of surgery. Low risk doesn't mean no risk. And these things just happened. Then nobody's fault. They just happened, and everybody did the right thing along the way.

But there was a complication with my first surgery, and I didn't know.

We couldn't figure it out for a long time. Just the pain was getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And the way it starts to affect you with chronic pain and the plane that I was experiencing, is that it's very noisy in your head dealing with this all the time, and you start your window of tolerance for dealing with any other kind of frustration starts to diminish, almost to know nothing at all, and I would.

You said, I could swear.

So I'm dealing with this feeling in my body and I'm walking around with what the fuck did you say on my face?

All right?

Because I'm like I aged significantly in that time. The pain line it's got etched into my face. But what happens then is like Audrey something like, ah, you know, parents coming down for the weekend. Can you get the sheets and put it on the bed, And she would look at me for my response, and I've got just written on my face.

I'm like, yeah, all right.

But because I've got that on my face and I'm dealing with the pain in my body, it comes out and it's tinged with this antagonist like it's not there, but it is.

It's coming from a different place, but they don't know that.

And then you're off and it became really clear that my relationship is not going to survive this.

And I.

Was going to the point where I was having you know, when you take a toy off a toddler who you just said like six times like no mate, I'm going up, it's bedtime, and they get that post meltdown spasm in their diaphragm and they go they do that.

So that was happening. My diaphram was spasmy, and I.

Was like, I can't live like this, and it was just agonizing by the end of it, and so I just I was desperate. I would have amputated if I could, Like it was that bad and I didn't want to amputate. Well, the next best thing is get a nerve block. I had some surgery on my hand once and they basically put a nerve block in my shoulder.

I couldn't feel my armor, Like, let's do that.

So I called out a pain clinic and they must have heard the same thing and my voice like, okay, then maybe you can come.

I've spoken to the doctor. He can come and see you.

After he finished his opera each day, so I was the only person in the surgery. He'd open up at five point thirty. I had to open the doors and everything to come and see me.

Examined me.

He goes, I could do it. You definitely need it. I could do it next Thursday. That the next time I got a slot. It's ten days. Can you last? But you need to get a referral for this. Because we happened very quickly.

I called them my GP. The next day, I said, I need a referral for this and then get a nerve block.

But it's essentially I want someone with a massive needle fill the ketamine to shove it into my lateral fram wil coutaneous nerve and turn off my leg I do not want.

To feel it anymore. That's a desperate move.

And she went okay, and GPS are the unsung heroes of Australia, the Australian medical system.

She's a made.

She goes, okay, all right, I know it sounds like it really hurts. I'll give you the real and you can always do that, but I just want you to go see this other guy for me, okay. And it's like I was saying before, you know, like someone else's ideas. I was out of ideas, and I'm like, all right, I'll take any ideas you got.

So I wanted to go see this guy and he kind.

Of explained to me things that amplification that can happen with pain signals and sensitization which can happen with just benign signals. And because I've been in pain for so long, your brain starts to do funky things with just a regular sensation, and what feels like a normal sensation is actually your brain sees it as a massive danger signal. And then I get these massive spikes of agony caused

It's like, wow, did you end up with like an old lady name? It was wild that's not her real name, but.

She taught me so much about how to identify the difference between pain signals that were actually caused by what was going on physically with me and pain signals which were being created as an amplified kind of response to what was going on in my body. And when she told me this, I was like, I've got to tell more people about this stuff, because the ones that were being invented by my brain, which feel as real as everything else.

The drug.

You can take all the drugs you want, but they stopped working before those paining signals get created, so the parts of your brain that they turn off to make the pain go away, they don't even. So you can take all this stuff and turn yourself when it was on, but you're still going to hurt.

And I'm like, man, we got to talk about this.

We've got these things are getting prescribed left and right. People are wanting them. Because the other reason I really wanted to make this documentary is our relationship to pain is I think it's irrational, all right, because we're taught as children pain is the worst thing ever. If you feel enough of it, you get a band aid. If it's bad enough, my and dad, well you know hervers around will come. If it's really bad, we will call a phone number that any phone.

No matter what network you're on.

It'll connect to a satellite if need be, and a car will come screaming through on Abehool with lights and signs blaring, and or a helicopter will show up and take you to a big, fat building full of people who are experts in making this thing go away. Because this is like has to be avoided no matter what. But pain is actually quite important. There's parts of it that can be unhealthy. There's levels of it that can

You know. Oh that's a signal that I've done about and we learn from it.

Right, if I touch a hot plate, I shouldn't do that ever again in my.

Life, all right, if I didn't have pain, you know, pain is really exactly.

It exists for a reason. It's just chronic stress and fear. Well, chronic stress is a problem. Stress and fear exists for a reason because they protect people, They keep us alive. It's when they become chronic that it becomes a problem.

So I wanted to this is where I wanted to explore from, right.

I wanted to explore from this place because and so I came to the guys that learned saying, we need to make we need to explore this and because this seems to be the answer that a lot of people think this is where it stops. I feel this thing. I don't like this thing. I want this drug end a story like, well, what does your life become?

All right?

I'd mad people with chronic pain who just carried on? How do you even do that?

How do you as a block in my life? And neck injury since ninety ninety nine? What was it?

Like?

He goes, it's like I've got a headache, like all the time?

Oh that you can that it's possible to have life with this sensation?

How do they do that? When you were wondering how do they do that? You've looked at you.

Well, look, I can tell you now, like I ended up having. In the end, I needed three surgeries. And it's been a little over two years since the second one just could have just gone yesterday. Actually, I since the third one. It's been just over two years. And I am there is a sensation in my body as I speak to you, that there's a discomfort. If I fixated on it, it'd be pain. But it's something that I'm I'm okay with it. It's okay that it's there. My relationship to it is the thing that I know

Not everybody gets to do that.

In the documentary, we speak with and I'm so grateful we've got to speak with someone Atlanta.

She's suffers just us astonishingly.

Astonishingly like unbelievably powerful, and Demetrios is pain, like the way she describes it is, Yeah, and I'm glad we got to talk about it. Like the doctors we spoke to don't even know what causes it, like no, it just happens. Talk about getting a you know, a bad deal with the cards, like it is nobody's fault and it's horrid.

And so we speak to someone who's so desperate.

She ends up getting an implant in her spine to like the white noise machines that you put on to get your kids to sleep early on. Something like that, all right, something like that with I.

Still use one myself. We all do. Actually, my house a pretty great.

I have to know her, so I have it all the time. But the it's it's a little like that. But you know, the doctor explains it far better than I do.

But you know it.

There are I wanted to make a We got to make this documentary we made earlier. We got to make a hopeful film about suicide.

All right.

I'd like to think we've made a hopeful film about chronic and persistent pain because it's.

Such a big and scary thing for so many people.

Like even the idea that oh you can, you can actually live a life that you value and do things that you love and move and play on the roll around on.

The ground, do jiu jitsu with my son every Saturday morning. We roll around on the matter. He puts me in army locks.

It's hilarious with these sensations in my body, and I can do both.

It's okay, that's great, isn't it? From where you had come from, Gosh, and living with that where you couldn't distinguish between playing with your son and your wife hugging you in this awful pain.

But it's important to remember that, you know, a big part of this is certainly with you know, physical pain, the kind of pain that I'm in. If you stop moving because your signals like, oh, we shouldn't move because it's going to hurt more. If you stop moving it, you end up exacerbating it because it is the movement that alleviates it.

But we're kind of had to.

We have to go around this little defense mechanism we've got of not moving the thing that hurts sometimes. I'm not an exercise physiologist, all right, I am. I'm not here to diagnose anybody. I'm just telling you what happened with me is that I knew my body wanted.

Me to move less. But unless I move, the more it hurt. So yes, as long as I'm willing to be with.

If anyone who's rehabed an injury knows, you've got to be willing to be with the discomfort of the rehab to regain the strength to get full motion and capacity back. And we just covered some stuff that is just amazing. People in Australia doing groundbreaking. Like I was saying before, we got ideas I met guy. There's two people I met on the show that are going to be billionaires, like without a.

Doubt and great, because isn't it good if that is where for us as a country, our billions are going as opposed to, as you say, all the billions that we're investing in pain management, which isn't really well, we're not even spending it in pain management. We're more dealing in like sort of crisis management.

Yeah, it's a backhand. Yeah.

I think the word hope that you said, he's so powerful because for the millions of Australians that are either living in chronic pain, or living with somebody who's suffering from it, or just worrying about it coming for them one day, a documentary like this offers so much hope. I wanted to ask you. You're a little bit talked about your sobriety, and obviously you have been very open

I don't know.

I don't quite agree with the idea of addictive personality. How would you well, the way that I would describe it is that there there are people who are more.

At risk of addiction than others. All right, that's what That's how I put it.

And I had, you know, I had, I broke a hand snowboarding twenty years ago and I got I was in North America and I got sent home with all these oxy cotones and I had this massive bottle of them, and I you know, found out later that you know, a long time after I stopped needing them the way I was using.

Them, so far off label, someone will describe it as abuse.

And similarly, like I did, I did an MCL when I was living in Los Angeles and the doctor just like just threw a whole big, massive bottle of Viking it at me. And the thing with that drug is it still hurts us that care and so you can kind of and it's like it was less than twelve weeks from when I was given that drug to when I was in my first you know, sobriety meeting, because.

That was part of the big slide.

And you know, there's been times my life when you know, other things, other pharmaceutical things have been not used the way they were intended by me. And so being able to go through surgery and stuff like that. I know, like in the same like if I check into a hotel, Like it's been fourteen and a half years, right, but I still if I check into a hotel, I'll be down at the desk and I'll be like, could you send someone up to take the booze out of the minibar please, Like, I'm not going to drink.

It, but it's just it's just easier to not have it there.

It takes up It's like a spinny beach ball on my computer. I'm like, it just takes off a bit of processing power that I would rather dedicate to work that I'm doing, or connecting with my family or whatever else.

And so I know, like when I'm heading.

Into this and you're having a chat with yourn ethetist, I have to say, listen, mate, you've got to know this. Da da da da da, And they go up, okay, and I'm able to I know the way things work in my body, And it's very much like an allergic reaction in that if you've ever had a kid adjacent to you that's got a peanut allergy, you wouldn't dare put anything near them, right, But if they started having a anaphyletic shock. You would say, excuse me, Timmy, can you please stop choking?

Can you stop breathing?

Please? Come on mate, Like, once that starts, I can't stop it until it's done. And so I know the best way to stop, to not have their action is to not put this thing in my body in the first place. Yet, when you post off and you've literally just had your femours sawn off by you know, a very skilled carpenter. With the drills and stuff they use, it's exactly the same shit you get down the hardware shop.

It's got a different logo on the side. I'm sure it comes out the same factory, right, but they're in there.

They use saws and drills and boring things and all kinds of things. There's one called a distal RUMA it's frightful. It's like a literally.

It just sounds ominous.

It's a multitool.

It's like a multitool and just hollows out the inside of your femous. They can bang bank so they can bang the post in.

That was uncannily good sound effect. By the way, I feel triggered.

I wasn't awake from it, but I was the sing, So you're gonna need You're gonna need these strokes because you need to rest, all right. If you don't rest, you can't heal. And so I knew, and I've done the same, you know with other meds in the past.

Where it is. And was that effect, Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, because I talk about it in the film. You know it's still in there.

You know, when that drug shows up in my body and I feel that drug coming on, like the old script just shows up and it can be powerful, and I know enough to go, wow, okay, you're still there.

I'm glad I don't know where this box is.

No, it's so true. And look, thanks like that answer, because it's why I wanted to ask about it, because I do think it is something when a person has it always prone to an addiction that I've seen people in my own life have to be really conscious of how they might work with pain medication because it is as you said, it is just like any other allergy or.

And it doesn't make It doesn't discriminate. That's the thing. It doesn't discriminate.

Look at any person in the public eye who has met a tragic end. All right, you cannot buy good mental health. It does not discriminate. Doesn't care who you are, It will come for you. Nobody is above it, all right. So the day you don't need to take, the day you don't need those massive, massive painkillers you got sent home from the hospital with, and you cool, just panotof you, Just take the box, go to the pharmacy, dispose of it, all right. Having that stuff lying around your house. It's

Of it for you.

It is honestly a fantastic piece of work, a world of pain. It's lovely to have you back on Australian TV as well, or should.

We've all been eighty seven? Glorious?

You do you well? This is the thing. When we see you back in a regular spot. There's been chat that you might do Farmer Wants a Wife if you.

Heard that right, Yeah, that started that.

Well there's talk that Sam Armitage might be doing Golden Bachelor.

For that.

Yeah, so then she's going to do a great job. I can't wait.

So she signed all the people that make it, and I love the format and it's a great.

So then that started the rumor mill that maybe Osha Ginsberg would step in his Farmer Wants a Wife.

So I don't know. Look, I don't know, Like you're more than welcoming to have a conversation with me.

But you know, I'm very busy my book deadline. I've got two books. I signed a two book deal, so the next one it's due really soon, working on it with an illustrator, so the workflow is somewhat complicated, but it's good.

And then the next one's due early next year. So I'm very busy.

So but look, you know what, if there's a compelling commercial offer, I'm willing to entertain.

Oh my goodness, Osha Ginsburg has been an absolute delight talking to you today, and A World of Pain premiers at eight thirty pm on Thursday, the twenty first of November on SBS.

No one watches stuff live, watch it on demand.

Come on, we will have a link to SBS on to do that. Show notes.

Nobody watches anything. This is what we need.

Watch any want director, Okay, I'm here with my analog watch TX.

That's all I want.

You've got to watch footy live.

I don't watch anything else.

Idle winner of course at this moment, all of those moments. But you're right.

I'll watch slow Horses as soon as I can. I don't want to bust it for me. This is true.

You don't what to avoid spoilers. No is it an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for your time. Osha Ginsburg. A World of Pain premiers at eight thirty pm on November twenty one on SBS and SBS on demand. Thank you for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Stellar Podcast. We'd love it if you take a moment to leave us a rating or a review, and of course make sure you're following us because we'll be back with another exclusive guest on something to talk About next week.