The morning workout that got Laura Henshaw pregnant

her sense of identity, her ambition, and her career. So when Laura found herself unexpectedly pregnant with her first child, as she says, a complete shock.

be letting some people down. We also unpack that recent headline making response to podcaster Chris Griffin, whose very retro viewes on gender roles left her so concerned she felt she had no choice but to speak up, sparking a national conversation about the rise of the manisphere and why trends such as tradwives and stay at home girlfriends on TikTok are so dangerous. Laura Henshaw, welcome to the Stellar podcast.

And I know a lot of my friends were kind of similar that by the time I'm thirty, I'll want to have children, like almost this light bulb or something switch will go off in my head and I'll film maternal and I'll know that I want kids. And I got to thirty, and it was actually for me, between kind of thirty and thirty two, I actually felt the opposite.

The closer I got to the age that I thought I should be having kids, the more that I kind of was questioning the fact that actually, maybe I don't know if I want to have kids, and I wanted to talk about it. Last year. I just I felt like so many of my friends they felt and with Steph and Steph's obviously been on this wonderful podcast as well, my business partner and best friend at kick. She's really maternal and has always wanted to have kids. And I

used to think, like, well, what's wrong with me? Why did you know Steph wants to have kids? And I've got other friends that just knew that they wanted to have them, and for me, it wasn't like that. And I had kind of all of these fears that I was worried that I was going to lose myself, I was going to lose my career, and that I would

really struggle. And so I went on this journey last year to work through like is this something that I want to do, and then also of course for my husband as well, and we came out at the end of it and decided that we did want to have children, but we weren't one hundred percent sure when, but also we were not ready kind of last year we did the miniseries in May, when I kind of did the exploration journey, And I think with a big decision like this as well, you never I kind of this is

probably a shocking thing to relate it to or compare it to, but I feel like it's kind of like a breakup. You're never one hundred percent sure if you should break up with someone or not right. Well, I don't know anyone unless something really, really bad has happened. But in a serious relationship, it's a big, serious decision. It's like people that I know that have moved overseas, they always have this questionable you know, am I doing the right thing? And I kind of felt like this

for this. Even though I'd gone through the journey and I'd thought, no, we do want to have them, I still have this fear in the back of my mind that well, what if when we do feel pregnant, if we have the privilege of being able to that. I don't want to be pregnant and I'm not happy. And so we had planned to start trying later this year. I was actually booked in for a laproscopy I think that's how you say it, in the middle of May.

So my plan was to kind of do the I was booked in to do the London Marathon, then have a laproscopy, and then after that start thinking about kids I have had. And sorry, this is probably a bit too TMI, but my husband and I and for my whole and this is not advice for anyone, you should not do this, but I have been having unprotected sex for a very long time, and I've never had a pregnancy scare for ten years, and so I had spoken to a gynecologist about it and she had said, look,

I also think I have endometriosis. So she's like, look, we can do a laproscopy. We'll go in and have a look for endo, and then also just see what's going on, because if you have had unprotected sex in your population period for that long, there might be something you know, we don't know. So I had had that booked in. I was planning training for the marathon, and then all of a sudden, I missed. My period has always been very regular, and I think that's as well.

I've never had a pregnancy scare in my life because it comes, you know, the kind of I have a twenty seven to twenty eight day cycle, so it's always come, and I get quite bad period pain, and I've been doing all these different things to try and navigate the pain and how to reduce it. And I got I had a little bit of blood, and I thought, oh, no pain, I have cured period pain, which I had not not. But I was like, oh, this stuff mu's

been working anyway. And then I ended up the next then nothing else kind of came and I thought, oh, maybe I also used to have a really heavy period, so maybe I've also fixed that, which obviously not. And so we did a pregnancy test the next day. My husband was so funny. He was like, Laura, I think you're pregnant. And I was like, we can't be pregnant. Like we literally had had sex once the month before. I was like, it was a morning quickie, like it was very sorry ta am I it was. So I

was like, there's no way, no way. And we did the test and it my husband actually was still in the shower because I was like, honey, I'm not pregnant. There's you know, turn the test around and I was like, oh my goodness, we're pregnant. I'm pregnant. And it was such a shock, and it definitely wasn't one of those I'd seen so many videos on Instagram where people have found out they're pregnant and they you know, are crying

and their partners crying and they're really happy. And it wasn't in any way that I wasn't grateful, I wasn't happy. I was just in complete shock. So I actually didn't get emotional at all. I think until I told Steph about five days later, and her reaction was so beautiful. She was sobbing, and it made me. Then I was like, oh, it kind of hit me that you know it's happening,

and I actually was. I was grateful. I feel really happy because that was yeah, as I said, kind of a fear that I had, I didn't know how I would feel, But I do feel really happy.

obviously we both were not drinking alcohol. We're in a wineber and I said to her, Oh, did you feel so depressed in the first trimester, Like is that and she just looked. I said, I've just I felt so down and must be normal though, and she just looked at me and she was like no. And then it was nice like she didn't want to be she didn't want to lie to me, of course, but I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. I thought everyone kind of felt that way.

But I do think that thinking that everyone felt that way was helpful in the time. And I just felt really not like myself. I had no motivation to do anything, even it sounds so ridiculous, but even to charge my phone, Like I just was like, I had no motivation. No, I didn't exercise. The only thing that was kind of getting me through that time was going to work or if I found I was really busy in the day,

it would take my mind off it. And then I just felt really kind of numb for the rest of the time, which for me is someone who usually feels quite happy and motivated. Was quite confronting. But what I was very grateful for was that I in my mind it was separated from being pregnant, so it didn't feel like I'm depressed because I'm pregnant. It was like, no, I'm maybe this is obviously just the crazy hormone increase that you've never like, if you haven't been pregnant, you

will never have gone through before. And I'm very grateful that that's now passed. And I think the other thing that really surprised me is the anxiety around if the child is okay. Because in the first trimester you have a few scans. It's amazing, Like in talking to my mom about when she had me and how different I think she said she had one scan for her entire pregnancy, but we're so lucky now there's so many. But you can't feel the baby until I'm not sure, maybe twenty

weeks or something. So there's this feeling of and there's so much information out there and things you should and you shouldn't be eating and you have to worry about and so that actually really surprised me. I didn't think I would have any anxiety around that. But I did, and I think now that I'm in the second trimester, I'm feeling a lot better and we're just feeling really, yeah,

really excited. And it's been beautiful as well to see my husband kind of go through the journey as well and just how happy and excited he is, And yeah, it's been it's really special.

the Kick brand. It really is great for women to be seen whatever their experience is, whether it's your experience, or whether it's how your co founder, Steph Claire Smith feels about things, or whether it is then other women that you're working with in the wider industry, like Michelle Andrews. The more variety of experiences we have, the more likely everyone's going to feel a little bit less alone and isolated. So I love that that candor and that ambiguity that

you've been so honest about it doesn't go away. I mean, life is complex and messy and it's still it's always the best of times.

personal brand, the content is of you. And so I think, and I know a lot of people go through this. You kind of go through stages where you feel like what is this for? Like is this just this platform where I'm not a narcissist per se, but it's just about me? And it's like all these photos and videos of me? And I think something that I find when I do go through that is when I'm then able

to use my platform to be able to help. If I can help one person feel not alone in what they're going through, then it's it's worth it.

made a decision decided not to have children. And obviously it's my have to remember it's my life and I need to decide for myself what I want to do. I mean, that's what the miniseries kind of came down to, and making this huge decision. You have to make it for yourself. You can't make it for anyone else. But I think, and I know, as someone who didn't know if they want to have children and wasn't ready to have children, that I and I've had this with some

friends that I've told, and I totally understand. There's friends that are very maternal and like Steph for example, that was so excited and I was so grateful for that. But then there's also people that I think was me, Like last year when my friends were telling me they were pregnant. It's almost this feeling of grieving a friendship that you know is going to change and they're not in the same stage as you because they either might

not want to have kids or they're not ready. And so I think that for me is something that I'm really conscious of in the announcement, is for the people that decided maybe they didn't want to have kids and felt that maybe they related to me because of the miniseries, that this could be something that they feel disconnected from me from and I meaning there's nothing we can we can do about that, right, It just it is what

it is. But I do feel that, and I think I in there when I've told people you kind of have well maybe three reactions per se. There's the ones that are people that are really happy that have kids and are like, welcome to the club. I'm so excited, Like Steph was like, it's so funny. She always text me about baby stuff and I always try to reply like in an understanding way, but she's like, you just don't get it, you know, and I was like, I

totally I don't know. I don't have kids. And then there's there's the group of people that maybe don't want to have kids, aren't ready that it's like that grief of grieving of a friendship. And then there's which I think it's interesting, I think it that doesn't necessarily have

to happen. I think that's something that I went through last year and that you know, I don't It's totally fine for people that want to make motherhood their entire identity, but for me, I think that that actually wouldn't be

serving myself. And then the third group of people is the people that have tried really hard to have children and then haven't been able to and that kind of that feeling of you know, you know, they're so happy for you, but they also it's heartbreaking every single time they find out that someone is pregnant, and so that's probably how I'm feeling about announcing. And then in terms of the unsolicited stuff that comes through, I mean, I think that the biggest one, as you said, is when

people had said to me, are you pregnant? And that was actually to do with the way that my body looked. And I got a few messages saying like, oh, you know, you've got a little pot beally, and I just it just made me think, like, are you pregnant or you know, I probably shouldn't think this, but I wanted to send the message through. And I think if you're ever going to write to someone, I probably shouldn't think this, but

I just wanted to send it through. Like I think it's probably a time not to send that through.

spin off and just like that. But obviously Sarah Jessica Parker's character was a quintessential single girl, Carrie Bradshaw, and then at the end of the original Sex and the City series, she famously ended up coupling up with the character of Big and then at the end of it some women felt betrayed that she then had ended up coupled up. I wonder if what you think about that

as sort of a similar parallel. In some ways, someone like you is feeling this responsibility because you had gone public and been generous with that ambiguity with the series. Do I want kids that you're clearly feeling a sense I think of misplaced responsibility for what it's worth or not misplaced. But I don't think you're letting anyone down. Do you think that comparison. Does that resonate with you at all?

people can change their mind. I think for a very long time I lived in fear, and I think it did hold me back a lot from speaking up and you know, speaking my mind and standing up for what I believed in, because there was always this fear of well, what if I change my mind in three years? What if I change my mind in you know, two years, five years, whatever it might be. And then someone pulls this clip up and says that you're a liar and

you're inauthentic. And for me, with building my like my personal brand, being authentic is one of the most important things to me, and so that was such a fear. I think work I can't speak up about anything because what if? What if I change my mind or what if I get it wrong? And I think something that we've got a lot better at as a society is

allowing people's space to change their mind. And I think for me, I know that we only know what we know, and so if I feel with what I know right now, I want to speak about something and or you know, have a thought or an opinion on something like that's okay, And in five years I might know so much more. I might experience more and if that changes, like, that's

that's good. Right, Like we if we're like from to say, from the age of two while but whatever it is, if we held exactly the same opinions for the rest of our lives, what a shallow life we would have, right, So I think for me, that's something that really helps with that feeling of responsibility for what you kind of Yeah, what you explained and it's so true.

in our mainstream. That's really scary. But it hadn't hit my algorithm. It's obviously not what I'm interested in watching, nor an opinion that I align with. So I got the video and I just thought, oh my goodness. And then over the day I thought, I think the first thing you kind of feel is defeat in like we have come. So now we are not in equal society in any way from a gender perspective. We've got such a long way to go, but we are getting closer, right,

We are making progress. I know it's slow, but we are making it. And so when you see content like that, especially from a don't I can't. I don't know exactly how old he is twenty one, twenty two, twenty three year old male that isn't in a relationship talking to another male of the same age or similar age that also is in a relationship, hasn't experienced, you know, having children. I don't know if he does well. Actually, he has said he wants to have children, because he said that

he wouldn't want a stranger to raise his children. So the expectation is that, and of course he doesn't. He won't do it because he's going to go to work. So he expects his partner to be able to do that as her role in this kind of traditional gender roles that he is pushing. And I just felt defeated, Like goodness me this content. I was reading through the comments and there was no comments pushing Maybe there was one pushing back on him. The rest of it was like, Wow,

you're amazing, and I just thought this is insane. And so I thought about it through the day, and I think the first thing, I'm very conscious of calling people. I really tried to call him in. I don't think I've ever tagged someone on my story and said like this is not good enough. But the way that I felt, I think for me as well with pushing the fact that in the content, and I did listen to the full episode, I'm very conscious that you don't want to

make a judgment on a one minute video. So I listened to the full one hour and forty five minutes, and it was, in my opinion, was worse than the clip in terms of that the theme was throughout the whole thing. It was not just that one clip. And for me, as someone who grew up in a household where my parents separated when I was twelve, my mum was not working full time, she did not have super it was invested in something else between my parents, and then had to go out and find a full time

job and be a single mum. I have kind of experienced firsthand what happens when you kind of have these traditional gender roles at home. You don't have the conversations about finances, their ears. And I think within my parents, they you know, they do they did the best they can. I always it's so important. I always remember that they were parents for the first time, right, But there was unintended equality within that relationship, and so I have seen

what happens. We know that women retire with way less super than men. We have a huge super gap. We know that women, when they take time off to raise children, if that's the expectation within their household and that's what they want to do, they don't. It's very it's very rare for their partner to contribute to their super They don't get paid for that. It's we know that motherhood

is one of the most undervalued jobs in society. And so as the more I thought about it, I just thought this message is so dangerous because the other thing is this video was in this beautifully litz studio. It had this violin music or piano whatever it was behind it, and so it made it seem like it was motivational, like this is the life that you want to live, This is you know, you need to follow this person.

And I was like, you know what, that's it I'm going to talk about this, and I was really conscious I wanted to make sure I didn't say anything about Chris's character. It was about the actions and those words that he said, and tried to call him in to say, hey, let's have a conversation about this. How do we because he's obviously got a huge audience that are influenced by the way that he speaks the content that he does. Unfortunately, he did not respond in wanting to have a conversation.

He did invite me to come on his podcast, but with his responses that he kind of had come back to me with online, I just didn't think it was going to be a productive conversation. He called himself a brick wall, and me and kind of the army that he in quotation marks of people that were standing up against him, which were mainly like amazing high profile women in the media and really just women generally that were

so enraged that we were marshmallows. And I think this limiting, this limiting view of women is so so dangerous and we know now and in we actually I ended up doing a mini series on it that's just come out this week called Mi Equal. Was really important for me to do, because I think what's important if people do want to stay home, like in a heterosexual relationship, if the wife does want to stay home, or either parent wants to stay home, that is there is no judgment

on that. That is absolutely fine, But they need to have all of the information. They need to have the conversations with their partner. They need to have financial control together.

Not one person has financial control and then the other one is like, oh, it'll be fine, because you actually don't know if it's going to be fine, right, And so yeah, that was why it was really important for me to talk about it, because it's just something that if one person could listen to that and have a conversation and go home and have a conversation with their partner about, hey, actually i'm about to take two years

off or nine months off, whatever it is. Could we jointly contribute to my super or you need to keep me up to date with the finances. I think as women, we often think that we're not good at finances. We don't have the confidence in it, we don't have the financial literacy, and that's something that a man does, and therefore we give all of that responsibility to him. That's also really dangerous for men as well to hold all

of that responsibility on their shoulders. So yeah, it was a really important conversation for I think to have.

hashtag stay at home girlfriend. It's also a message that's been incredibly palatable and marketed in a very savvy way to young women, many of whom would be consuming your content. So what's the response been from them? They receptive to the conversation about how things might look right now might not be how it plays out when you're in your late fifties and sixties.

do have children. I think what's really scary with that content is it is so glamorized. It looks amazing, you know. And the thing is, these content creators, if you're creating content all day, you are you have a job. Right. So they're kind of showcasing it that they don't work, but they really do because being a content creator is a job in itself, and it looks. So they wear beautiful clothing, the cleaning looks lovely, the cooking looks lovely.

They look after their husband, all of these things. You only see one percent of someone's life on social media, right, So I think that's so important to acknowledge. I think what's been really special in the response has just been the amount of women that have reached out that have either had this happen with their parents or it's happened

to them. I've had so many conversations with women who devastatingly have been in relationships where they're past And this is why as well this piece of content, I wanted to call it out in terms of it being benevolent sexism in that it's control disguised as care. If they say this is really loving, this is you know, they're doing it because it's loving. They want to look after you, you want they want you to be in your feminine whatever the heck that means. They want you to have freedom.

There is no such thing as freedom. If it is dictated how you need to be, that is not free, right, And so what was really really incredible to see was people kind of also the amount of women that sat that reached out to me and said that they had either like thank you for sharing this, or devastatingly they had been through it because their partner said they cared about them, they didn't want them to work, and now they're a single parent, they're in a lot of debt,

they're struggling, they're living on Centrelink, and they wish they had have known and they had kind of had those conversations. And so that's been really really nice to be able to I suppose speak to them and for them to feel empowered by the conversations now being more mainstream. I think the other thing I have had is I've had quite a few conversations with stay at home mums who have felt that the content was very judgmental towards them and for me, I have most of them I've written

back to and had a conversation with it. It's been a handful of people, and that was why in the mini series it was very important that we spoke about the fact that and my opinion is there is nothing wrong with there's no right or wrong right. Every single

person knows what's right for their family. It's their decision, but it's making an informed decision that is really important, and not glamorizing traditional gender roles in a way that makes it seem like so loving and caring when a lot of the time there is so much, even if it's not intended, unintended inequality within those relationships.

parental leave? And how on this early stage are you and your husband thinking that that balance and all of the things that you've just talked about, how that will be playing out in your household potentially. I mean, is any much of any of us can predict?

is that we will share the load. In no way is there an expectation that I would stay home and bear child look after the children, and he would go to work. We both run our own businesses, we both really care about them, and so making sure that we have an equal approach is very very important. Exactly how that will look, I'm not sure. I think my plan at the moment is to take to do take some

time off. But I think something and this is on me, this is in no way there's my maternity leave that I'm able to take is the same as what Stef's taking. So STEP's taking three months out of the business. I mean,

it's with this job. It's still like we're still for example, we recorded a podcast yesterday, like there's still things that you know, we come back for, but kind of out of the day to day for six months actually and then to kind of but after three months return to some of the other things that we do that aren't kind of operational in the business. I think for me, that's probably the plan that I have at the moment. But I do have a big fear of boredom and what how And I know when I say boredhom I

know raising a child is the hardest thing ever. I know I don't have kids right now, and so any mum's listening and probably like you're crazy, but it's I know it's going to be so busy, but it's also

a very different type of simulation. And I think for me, something that I and something that I probably really need to really work through and I have been trying to work through and knowing that this was coming up in taking a little bit of time off and having kids is I often will deal with things by just filling my entire calendar, you know, with ten hour days, and then I don't have to think about anything because by the time I come home, I'm so tired and I

just I just go to bed. So even for example, in the first the six weeks where I felt really depressed, the way I was able to deal with that was filling my calendar. And so I know I'm not going to be able to do that when I have like when I when we have our kid, and so it's something that I'm I have to say, that's probably what I'm the most scared of. I'm really I don't know why. I've often like postnatal depression is really is obviously such

a serious condition, it's so scary. I think it's something that I've always thought. I wonder if I feel like I have a lot of the trait the way that I think and things, and that I've tried to deal with things means that that might be something that I deal with. I mean, I don't know, but that's always

been a fear of mine. And so I think, while I do plan to take that time off, if I am really struggling, I think I'm grateful that I am able to dip back into work earlier if I need to or pick more things up, which I know is a shocking I need to actually deal with the problem. Putting work on top of it is not the solution, but I like that I have that safety blanket that if I do want to come back earlier, I can.

plan that is a rock solid one. Laura, I wanted to ask you a little bit about ten years, as I say, coming up with Kick and you are CEO, and when you're talking earlier about how people would slide into your DMS or message and say, Oh, I don't know if I should say this, but I mean I thought I noticed a little bump there. What that says about still, even in twenty twenty five, toxic diet culture, body shaming, the way that we still police our own bodies and those of other women.

lot of people. If you don't enjoy sport at school, sometimes you might not have actually ever done any activity, and then you get out of school or your twenties or whatever, and you want to move and you don't know how because it's really intimidating. It's a privilege to have access to that information. But I think what's really difficult is that a lot of it is packaged up in diet culture. And so with Kick, that's something that's

why we started. It was to create a place and a tool where people could come and be empowered with those tools without the pressure to measure themselves or look a certain way. And we have, as you said, been on this journey now for ten years, which is so crazy. It feels like one hundred but also one at the

same time. But I think what's really scary, and this is very much in line with you know, as you said skinny talk on TikTok, there's all of this pro ed content on there, which if someone watches a young person like a really when you're young and you're impressionable, it's I mean that was when I went through I was about nineteen when I went through my disordered eating.

You have all this common sense, like even in school I did biology, I understood that I couldn't eat exactly like someone else and exercise like them and look like them, because it's literally impossible. But it goes out the window when you're in this comparison trap and thinking that you're not good enough. And so that's what's really scary with that content because if someone watches that that then then they serve them another video. Then the algorithm sends them

another video, and then that becomes their entire feed. And if they're spending like a lot of us hours a day on TikTok and Instagram, that is so much time to be exposed to that message. And I think the other thing that's scary coupled with that is the rise of ozenpic. Now, with ozenpick, there are people that are using it and it is saving their life and there's a purpose, right, And I don't have any judgment on that.

But the really dark side of ozeenpic that I'm really scared of is the people for society, is the people that are getting access to a zeenpic that are not in any way overweight or have a health condition that is impacted by the size of their body. And that is what is scary. I mean, we're seeing in Hollywood celebrities are getting skinnier and skinnier. I mean they're always they always have smaller bodies, but they're getting smaller and smaller.

And that's what's really really scary. I think we see that and it's so crazy that this is the case. But women's bodies trend, right there's the stage where we had the hourglass trend, and then we had back when I was in my phase of disordered eating, it was very much the caate moss, like nothing tastes as good as skinny feels, which is so insane, but that was like a very popular thing on was it on Pinterest or something like that, tumbl tumbler the tumblr blocks, so

so many people would share that. And what's really scary is with the rise of ozen pic people having access to it that on the black market or whatever you

call it. That I'm very scared we're going to enter a trend again of extreme thin and small bodies, and that is for women and for the pressure to look that way, because there's always this pressure that we need to societal pressure from you know, so many elements sometimes the media, society, social media to fit a mold, and the mold is getting really really small and that's really really scary because we know that when we feel pressure to change the way that our bodies look, and we

think that the way that our body looks as women is the most important thing about us, and we do change, you know, we exercise more or we eat less. Usually that's what people will do. You think about food twenty four to seven. And that was for me when I was in my phase of disordered eating. I was the smallest I had ever been. I was. I had a goal weight, and I'll never forget. I remember when I got to this goal weight, and I thought, if I

get to this weight, I was depriving myself. I was exhausted. I didn't I was exercising when I had hardly eaten. I couldn't study like my studies. I was doing my law de great at the time, I could not focus on it because I had no brain cells because I was not fueling my body. And I remember I got to this goal weight and I thought, sorry, if I get to this goal weight, I will be happy. All my dreams will come true. That's all that. Then I will be worthy, I will be good enough. And I

remember I got to the goal weight. I looked in the mirror, and I thought, you're still not good enough, Like you need to now change this about your body and you need to keep going. And that's what's scary is that there is no and when you're in that mindset, there is no endpoint to that. And yeah, that's what I think. I'm the most scared about it at the moment in terms of the way that we see the industry going.

his surname when the two of you got married. Look, bravo, really genuinely just think it's such a wonderful decision reflects so well I think on the two of you. If that doesn't sound patronizing to say that. So, have you had any discussions about what the family name will be for your baby when they arrive.

I would take his name. However, we both will open and I said to him, look, if this is something that means a lot to you and is going to impact your life, if I don't take your name, I'm also really happy to have that conversation with you. But for him, he said, no, I think it. You know, if he didn't want to have a different it was really important to him that if we did have kids,

that he had the same surname as his kids. Obviously, there's so many people that don't change their name, and so so if the in a head sexual relationship, if the woman keeps her name, the child will often take the husband's surname. That doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong with that, but for Dulton personally, that was something really important to him, and so that was why he decided

that he would change his name. He said, well, it makes sense for you to keep your name, and I want to have the same surname as our kids, so I'll change my name. And so what that will mean is that our baby will have our surname, Henshaw, our shared surname. And we actually it's funny. We do know the gender. We're not going to share it until like on social media, but do we do know? And I had names in my phone and so did adult for one gender, and we had zero names to the other gender.

And we're having the gender that we don't have names for. So it's been so funny just trying to work out the name because we keep sending each other things and it's so funny with every name it's like, no I knew someone they were mean or makes me think of this or whatever. So we definitely have no idea what the name is going to be, but that's okay. I'm sure we'll work it out by the time we've got quite a few months left. But yeah, that's been quite funny.

and you can catch Laura on the Kick app. We'll have a link to both of those in our show notes, and if you're interested in hearing more about Kick, We've also will have a link to an interview with Laura's co founder, Steph Claire Smith in the show notes as well.