Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Ristella podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have had the privilege of sitting down with some of the biggest names in the country. Because when Estrala's celebrities are ready to talk, they come to something to talk about. We're continuing to publish across the summer break, and we'll be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth.
In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks, we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the past year.
And I'm happy to report that there have been.
A lot of popular episodes, but out of the fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break, and today we'll be revisiting our conversation with m Rasciano. It's a characteristically lively chat from M about Adhd and how she emerged from what she calls her quote scorched earth years to M.
Thank you for having me and I just hurripe between you and I will find something to talk about.
I think that we will. Have you ever not been able to find something to talk about.
Nah, isn't that the glory? Oh? Let me think. No, I've usually got an answer.
My dad always said that there's a smart ass answer for everything, so there is indeed.
Well, I really want to talk to you about your new podcast. You, of course are no stranger to podcasting. You have topped the charts regularly with a variety of podcasts. But this is almost like a new audio documentary. I'm talking about anomalies, and you've described it EMM as a love letter to the neurodivergent community and a roadmap for
neurotypical people. Can we go back to your diagnosis. You were diagnosed with autism at the age of forty three and diagnosed with ADHD a year earlier when you were forty two, With those moments in hindsight respectively, three and two years ago now the catalyst for this series, even though presumably you didn't know it at the time.
Absolutely, that's an excellent question. Thank you for asking it. I often when I'm going through things, I look around to find information, solace community, and when I was diagnosed with ADHD and previously ADHD, in my mind, the prototype for that was the hyperactive ten year old white boy.
I was a chronically.
Exhausted forty two year old mother of three, so when I got the diagnosis, it was wild. So I began looking for resources, and because I don't have great executive function, I found it extremely overwhelming. It was like my brain was fraying and I was desperately trying to grab all the ends to tether them to something solid. And I couldn't find one resource that would explain it to me in a way that wasn't terrifying or scientific or even make.
Me question myself.
And I wanted to when the idea for anomalist when I had it, you know, fast forward to me giving the National Press Club address about my ADHD. I know a lot of women and afabs saw me and saw themselves in me and started questioning do I need a diagnosis? And I kind of left everyone hanging. So Anomalist is my follow up to the Press Club. It's the what
Do I Do Now? Podcast? For people who do suspect then you're a divergent, or who have been newly diagnosed and aren't really sure what the next step is, or for people who want to let them neurotypical people in their life know what's going on for them?
You mentioned the National Press Club address there, which was really the moment where you went public. That was August twenty twenty two, and we'll actually put a link to that address in full in our show notes, and because it was a really powerful and emotional address and it got a lot of pickup in that part of what you talked about with the fearing when you were first diagnosed, the feelings of grief as you described it, what would
you say was the dominant emotion? Because you and I would both know when people get those diagnoses there can be a raft of different things. For some people, it is relief. Now everything suddenly makes sense. For other people, it's like a validation. I always thought something was going on. For some people, it's a real confusion and despair, and then there's grief. What was the overarching feeling for you?
I made sense.
It put me into context for myself because I've always felt out of place and I've always felt like an alien amongst the human race, and it gave me a reason for so many things in my life. That was probably the most The strongest outcome was ah okay, But I experienced all of those things you spoke about with equal strength.
The grief took me out. The grief.
The grief was just free flowing, and I was shocked at the veracity of it. I was shocked at how much it took my breath away. And you know, I would have little flashbacks to events or too happenings in my career, at my even just you know, right back to primary.
School, where I would be told to try.
Harder, or you're not putting in enough work, or why are you so disorganized? Can you just remember your homework? Why can't you be more like you are in English? In maths, you know, and constantly looking at these grown ups saying, I am busting my heart and soul.
I'm staying up till one am.
I'm putting glitter on my math's assignments to hope that I distract you from how bad I am at maths. I couldn't try any harder, like I will bust something and just validation for that little ten year old girl, and I'm able to spend some time with her and say, you know, you're incredible and magic and you would just not so, you know, and I still get teary talking about it, because, yeah, the grief was enormous, but it was coupled with relief and a lot of joy because
I was able to reframe myself. So, you know, many things can be true at once, and it's so complex, and I still go through phases with my ADHD, especially because sometimes it really helps me and a lot of the time it hinders me.
I think that's such a beautiful description of the complexity of that diagnosis, because, as you say, so many different things at once, and I am not just echoing that back to you. That's something I've experienced myself, and I actually never spoken about this on something to talk about, but this felt like the appropriate forum. Be really clear, this podcast is absolutely not about me. I do actually try to make myself a little bit.
Because it to be about you right now.
I just thought it might be helpful, because you're being so generous with your followers and your audience and ignite this conversation, that it was helpful to say that I, like you, also navigated an ADHD diagnosis in my forties, and as you were talking about even your first answer just not that being the picture. It's not that ten year old in attentive boy.
That's a bit naughty.
In the front of the class in year four. I wanted to get some of your thoughts about that because we are, as you know, seeing a lot of women in the spotlight. You've very much been at the forefront of it. But obviously that's being replicated across all parts of the community because you and I both know that's what culture is. It's about what's happening in the limelight is only replicating what's happening in households all around Australia. That misdiagnosis.
For you, for yourself as.
A woman, coming to that diagnosis in your forties, for you as a mother yourself, it is wild how far we've come in terms of realizing that it's not just about those quote unquote naughty attentive boys at school.
Yeah, the traditional focus has been hyperactivity in school settings. Right, So if you're presenting most females a hygh percentage of females and AFAB have the inattentive type of ADHD. So they're the quiet girls in the corner of the daydreamers. They might be accused of being lazy or disorganized. And you know, the squeaky wheel gets the most grease. So if the little boys are jumping up and down in the classroom. Is what we call a symptom recognition. A
symptom recognition bias begins to manifest. And it is years and years of this symptom recognition bias working against girls and a fab who don't present in that manner.
And this just breaks my heart.
There's just a generation of us and our mothers who were missed and as a result, unsupported, and as a result, there's so many cooccurrences of anxiety and depression and OCD. And if it's just caught early enough and you're given
the right support, amazing things can happen for you. But you get to forty burnt out in total overwhelm, everything's on top of you, and you look back at the trail of just on your hormones going haywire because the perimenopause has started, and you look back at the trail of destruction behind you, and I couldn't help it think, God, if this had been caught, if I had have been recognized, then so much of the destruction that did happen might
not have happened. But on the flip side of that, I'm really brave with my career and I'm really brave with myself because I have a lack of dopamine. So
it's that double edged sword, right. But up until very recently that was thought, you know, that ADHD just really didn't occur that much in girls, And now what we're finding is that it's completely false, and there's been a rise in this late diagnosis because there is a finally a desperate correction of the chronic, previously underdiagnosed condition that
ADHD is. So you know, oftentimes apparently you know, I invented ADHD, if you believe some of the commenters after the Press Club, but you know, we're up against decades of systemic symptom recognition bias, and to undo that. Now that we can gather on mass online and compare notes and realize the different variations of presentations, you know, TikTok for one. I know it's given people the ability we can finally get together and gather and understand it. Whereas
in the past, this is going to shock you. Female health doesn't get a lot of coverage, It doesn't get a lot of recent right, but now we're not relying on mainstream media to tell our stories. We can tell our stories and then we're able to see someone else's story that's like ours and then we can talk about it. So when people call it a fad, you know, or a trend, I just think, God, there is just so many other fads I would pick. If I was going to get on board with a fad, I don't know.
Agreed like city jeans, oversized neutral jackets or whatever.
I don't know if it would be chronic executive function disorder where I'm unable to answer emails that literally, you know, it's my house is going to be going to foreclosure if I don't answer the bank, you know.
That kind of stuff. I don't know if i'd pick that, as muffat.
TikTok has been so great for so many women, and you can't get diagnosed on TikTok, like they don't send you a certificate from the House of Talk that that's not what happens. You have to go through a horrible hoop jumping ablest variety of diagnostic appointments that is so set up against us, as ADHD is.
That's a whole other topic. Don't get me started.
But yeah, we're now realizing and catching up with all those little girls and a fab community who were you just were missed and fell below the radar.
It's so important that you've called that out because he did want to talk to you about that, because you and I both know him that there will be people listening thinking.
Oh, here we go. You know, a couple of.
Women talking about their ADHD diagnosis. So it's a fad, it's a bandwagon, all of those sorts of things.
And I think speaking.
To that with some empathy as you just have, is about saying, well, here is why it looks that way to you, because we can see why it might look that way because suddenly, as you said, you've had this decades of systemic bias where people have gone undiagnosed. And if we want to call out something as a trend, I would argue that was the trend. We were missing the signs and we were not diagnosing people. Now we're seeing a correction, and I, like you, wouldn't call that
a trend. A trend is what you'll find in the fashion pages of Stellar People.
Not profound.
Look.
Please feel free to jump in with a few m is photographed in today's Dell in fabulous fashion so we can cross.
Promo this all the way. But that's right.
And because you must hear a lot about that, people saying, oh, it's social media is making this a little bit contagious. For one of a much better word, people are diagnosing themselves.
You've already shut it down so quickly.
But as you say, it's a referral service, isn't it. You have to go through very profound and rigorous there's medical diagnosis.
Yeah, I have no problem with self diagnosis either. I mean, you can't access the main idea around you know, people saying they have ADHD? Is this really unfair and unfounded attitude around the medication the stimulants, right, and our medication is the most policed medication of all medications. I cannot think of another medication where there it's such fear and scarcity around stuff that actually helps me function and helps my disability.
The anxiety that most.
Adhds I know have around their stimulants is wild. So you take that aspect out if you want a self diagnosed as ADHD and you that's that's great, how empowering. Why would we want to discourage women or a fab community from finding a better way of moving through the world. Thank god, this is happening, and I just think, to anybody who wants to say, oh, it's bad, it's boring.
I ask you and challenge you.
Why is your response not shit, we really let some people down.
How awful.
I can't believe we have done this to generations of women. Why is your response not what can we do to put in better supports for these undiagnosed and unsupported women and AFAB Why is your initial response boredom, eye rolling or accusing us of jumping on a fad. And so that's the challenge I put to all of your listeners is if you do find yourself feeling a bit challenged and annoyed by the conversations around ADHD, ask yourself why and then go on google internalized ableism.
But that's another podcast.
But yeah, I really don't have a lot of patients for people who roll their eyes at ADHD, because you should try living with it.
I know that you've been an inspiration and a mentor of sorts.
If that's my.
Word to use on your behalf to other women in particular who have also been public with diagnosis. A specific example of that m would be Abby Chatfield, who was a guest on this podcast last year, and she called you out as somebody who'd really helped her navigate some of those battles that she had encountered, specifically speaking publicly
about her experiences being diagnosed with ADHD. Does that sort of feedback from people and someone like Abby, who like herself, very well known, no stranger to getting flack and causing media storms. She's very outspoken. But obviously that is very difficult. Whatever it looks like from the outside, it's never easy to be in the set inter especially when it's something so personal as your health and your mental health.
Having feedback from people.
Like Abby saying what a mentor you've been does that help strengthen your results?
Yeah?
I mean, I think Abby's fantastic. I just am so grateful that she exists in the media landscape. I'm a big fan, and I always judge people if they have an issue with Abby. That's always my litmus test. Do you have an issue with Megan Marshall or Abby Chatfield? And if you do, then let's talk about your problems. And whenever anyone says you know something negative about Abby, I jump on them so quickly and I get really curious and I'm like, tell me about that.
Why?
What is it because if someone's brave enough to stick with me, I generally turn them around. It doesn't happen that often. She's beloved to be fair, I just want to say it's very rare, but I think she's magnificent and brave.
But I know the toll. I know the other side of that.
Abby and I work for the same company and both came from reality TV. And then when she started talking about her diagnosis, I viscerally felt it because I know what commercial radio demands of you, and I also know what a new diagnosis of ADHD demands of you, and those two things should be know any of each other. So anytime she reached out to me or I would reach out to her, I just wanted to be a safe space for her because it's also an extremely unique
situation that she was in. That's pretty niche nearly diagnosed in a high profile radio job. Me too, But yeah, I not just for famous women, but I get contacted by women everywhere saying, you know, you've emboldened me or empowered me to advocate for myself, which is so incredibly humbling but also the fuel that drives me. But the
main thing is I have three neurodivergent children. I have an autistic son with high support needs, and I can see how this world is set up against them, and I want to be a part of changing attitudes and changing the cultural discussions around neurodivergence. So that's what keeps me going because every time I'm front facing with my autism and ADHD.
I cop it.
It's brutal, but I have to keep doing it because eventually people like me will stop copying it. Representation matters, and currently there's not a lot of representation for neurodivergent women, especially autistic women.
But every time I talk about it.
I get You're not autistic, you're not autistic enough, you're not disabled enough, you're not disabled. She's faking it, she's doing it for attention. I have to live through that, and it's brutal. But if I don't keep fronting up, then the attitude's never changed. So it's this cycle that
I'm in. And you know, I've got anomalists, and I've also got mine live show Outgrown, which is kind of an extension on from Anomalies with songs and chokes and stories, and I'm just bracing myself for what's going to come. But if I don't put myself out there, then things don't get better. So yeah, it starts with Abby, it goes into women everywhere, but ultimately it ends with my kids.
On a selfish level, I want their lives to be full and amazing and everything that and kids like them and ten year old m I'm kind of doing the thing I wish someone had done for her.
I don't want to give airtime to any of your specific trolls, will spend too much time talking on about that, because as you've just articulated, it is not easy. However it looks from the outside, however robust and bulletproof you would seem to so many of your followers. That's it
takes a massive toll, as you've just explained. But you said there m for instance, that you do get accused of faking things, and specifically because we've talked to about the ADHD diagnosis, but the autism diagnosis, and that I mean, I would argue is probably even a lot more work to be done in the media space, which I think
that your podcast tackled so beautifully. But there was an instance last year where a comedian did accuse you of faking your autism diagnosis when you had spoken about about the sensory space that's available at Marvel Stadium, and you at the time were praised for being very gracious in your response because you spoke about what you just touched
upon there. That it's really those sorts of ignorant comments are a reflection of the bias that's existed and the need for representation, because we are still struggling to understand that you actually are representative the neurodivergent community. You are representative of somebody with autism. It musting, though, And do you think that that is getting any better for you, because being accused of faking a diagnosis, surely it doesn't get much worse than that.
Yeah. It was probably my worst fear, to be honest about coming out. And it's just such a wild thing to accuse someone off, especially I have and I took to carrying around my diagnostic report in hard copy and digital. That's how upsetting it was, just in case anybody challenged me, and autistic people never challenged me. Autistic people were, yeah, we know, it's only neurotypical people that seem to have an issue with the idea that I'm autistic and it.
Was I didn't get out of bed for a month.
I think as a comedian, I'm pretty brave in covering the hard stuff of life. I've done shows about losing a baby, about my marriage, breaking down, about being called a diva, but this one was really personal because those are other things were tangible, and this is an invisible disability.
And also, you know, I don't represent everyone's preconceived ideas of what an autistic person is because the only examples we've had are Dustin Hoffmann in rain Man, and you know, the guy from the Good Doctor and the kid from A Typical and the common theme is there they're all white,
straight dudes, and I'm not that. So every time I front up and represent autistic women, people have no prior knowledge or nothing to compare me to accept those examples I just gave you, So yeah, naturally there's going to be a not But yeah, it was brutal and my worst fear, and it really took me out and down, and it made me not want to continue talking about it. But it's who I am, and to shut that part off would be doing again ten year old Emma service.
So I spent many months picking myself up and nonemallest was put on the back burner because it was meant to come out much sooner, and it took me probably six months.
Yeah, and then I got over myself.
And I realized that I don't need the validation of people are gonna people are going to choose to not believe me or think badly of me, and that's out of my control. And my greater purpose for making the podcasts and doing the live stand ups and being so front facing with my disabilities is so people don't have to ever feel how I felt that day when I read what that person said and how I was being covered and.
Made fun of. And I don't know if you can imagine.
What it's like having a massive public discourse around your disability and if in fact you I disabled enough. It was wild and I had a lot of win and then reach out to me at the time saying they felt a similar thing when they told their family they were autistic ADHD. They were gas lit and I got gas lit by a hyph percentage of Australian public very publicly. But I'm grateful for that time now because I have a much steally a resolve around it, and if people
challenge me on it now. I'm rock steady crew. If people want to say you're not autistic, I'm like, okay, cool, that's in your scientific opinion. Great, but it doesn't it doesn't rip my soul out through my nose. I'm okay now, and I'm ready to make stuff about it to help other people, which is what anomalist is, which is what our grown is. I'm okay. I'm in a good space to do it. But it did really take me some time. It was my worst fear come true.
And I'm really sorry that you were made to feel that way, and I'm really sorry to hear how awful it was, although it does come as no surprise to me. It was absolutely horrifying, hurtful thing to watch unfold. And I'm so glad that you found a way to channel that and get this body of work that is anomalous out into the public space. And I'd love to talk
to you a little bit about it specifically. And you've mentioned a few times what you're doing for the ten year old, am, and you are a mum of three and as you said, three neurodivergent children. I'd love to talk a little bit about you as a mum. Not in a reductive, sexist way, by the way, but like I say it, yes, this is a bit of a family project, isn't it. Your husband, Scott is also involved in Anomalis.
Yes.
Can you tell me a little bit about the role that you and your family and what that has played in this new podcast and how they have driven this new chapter of your work.
I think having them involved was really important because I wanted people to see that side of me, because oftentimes you'll just see me, you know, all guns blazing on stage or with my other podcast, Emsolation, But this was just me unmasked at home. The press Club. You know that the first episode kicks off with a bit of the press club and the kind of you know, the what now? And I live in a household of very blind, very sensitive people, so it's always wild and fun to document.
But we're all neurodivergent, and I've gone through the diagnostic journey with every single member of our family, and I think that will be helpful for people to hear. But yeah, this project is I'm so proud of it. It's like nothing I've ever made before because it's so we've spent so much time with it, it is a doco, it's
fact checked, there's experts. You know. It's something that I took a lot of time and care with, you know, over a year, because I wanted to have this neat, little legacy for when someone is newly diagnosed or someone is thinking about getting diagnosed, their doctor, their friend, their mum, their colleagues, and maybe you're listening right now, you can send anomalist to them as a.
Little five episode gift.
I've also broken the episodes down into two parts if they're a bit long, because it's tough.
Being you're a divergent taking all that in all at once.
But I wanted it to be this standalone, self contained how to guide for neurodivergent people and neurotypical people and striking that balance of being neuroaffirming and accessible, so and funny and heartfelt and not too dense but enough facts just.
The thing that I needed that I didn't have.
I go and I make this shit I need when I go through stuff, you know, and I realized there's a bit of a gap there, or like no one's delivering it in a way that I need to hear it. Not to say, there's so many resources out there, and this isn't the only one, and so many wonderful people are doing stuff in this area. I just needed something, you know, a.
Bit raw and weird and colorful and noisy.
And you know, I've just made something essentially for me that I hope resonates with everyone else. I don't think there's anything out there like it, and I hope everyone loves it.
But yeah, that's really once I let it go.
You know, when you make something, once you give it to the public, it's no longer yours. And I'm really ready for that to happen.
And when we come back, em gives us a look at what an average day, whatever average means, looks like inside her household.
I wanted to ask a little bit about that.
Sentence that I touched upon the beginning of our conversation about anomalous also serving as a roadmap for neurotypical people. If someone listening doesn't have anyone in their family or circle as far as they know, who is neurodivergent, and they want to understand a little better what it is like living in the household like yours, AM's, or as you said, every single member of the family is neuro divergent. What would an average day? Can I even use the
word average day? Laugh that loud moment, Yeah, what does an average day look like in your household?
Do you know what I was? We met with Elio, my son.
We met with his new occupational therapist at our house this morning, and she, after being with us for an hour, just looked around and she said, he's really lucky to be in this household.
Like she said, you are, so.
You're already doing things naturally that an autistic kid with his support needs.
Needs to thrive in that.
We each day wake up and we try not to put hard and fast rules on everything, and we do a lot of yes ending and you know, whatever, whatever each person in the family needs in that moment, we try to honor. You know, it's not always perfect, but I'm able to get up in the morning and say I am at two percent to my daughters who are twenty two and seventeen, I mean, can one of you please make Elio's breakfast. I just need to go and
sit quietly for five minutes. I can say to my husband, the lights are drilling into my eyes, and I can hear sounds, and I can smell.
That color red of that top.
I just and he gets that because sometimes when I put clothes on of a certain color, the color.
Always heavy on my skin.
I know that sounds nuts, but it's just part of my synesthesia that I have. But I'm just in a family where I can say I need nobody to ask me a question for one hundred minutes, no questions, and everyone just gets it. So we're able to express our needs. So a day in our house, it just depends how we all wake up and where we are all waking up in our neurodivergent journey, and how much stimulus we've all taken in. So every day is different in my house.
But you know, I live in the paradoxical hell of having ADHD and autism, so I crave structure and routine, but I'm unable to maintain.
Structure and routine.
So it's really this light and dark battle between my adhdmoetism. So we do have routines in place, which we kind of swing off like monkeys, if that makes sense. But the best part about being in my family is just the grace and the space that we hold for each other and that we give each other.
Oh, the grace and the space that's beautiful.
That's every family that would have the luxury of creating that for themselves is really ahead of the curve.
That that's a beautiful phrase. The grace and the space I love that.
I will just say to any parents listening, don't should yourself to death. Don't put invisible rules upon yourself and your kids and your family. Just do what you need to do to get through in that moment. It's okay. I think a lot of the time we should ourselves to death, and we worry we're not doing the right thing exactly in that moment, or there's been too much screen time, or they haven't enough fritten vegetables, or they're wearing their pajamas to school or bathers as undies or
whatever it is cereal for breakfast. And I think the moment you're able to you know, not only like I say this, grace and space, give it to yourself. Give yourself grace and give yourself space, because you need to get yourself right to be the best leader for your small humans. If you are suffering, they will suffer. So
give yourself that first thing. Look after you. And I know we say this and it's been a whole thing that's been monetized with women, but especially you're the sunshine and the engine room of your family and probably the curator also, and if that's struggling, then the rest of the family that you're killing yourself for struggles from get go.
So I think the thing I come.
Across with mos, especially with women who have ADHD and who are mothers and struggle with executive function.
It is usually our job also to do all the when.
The kid's got the orthodontist or the sports or the drop off, and who's done the free chopping, and who's paid that bill, and you're juggling all of that, and then if you're in your late thirties, you're estrogen's chronically dropping and you're heading into perimenopause, so that exacerbates you're ADHD symptoms and it just feels like you're in a shit storm of life and there's no light. I've been there,
my friend. That is the time where you just give yourself that that grace because in my experience, and I have hundreds of thousands of followers humble brag, sorry what a wonker, That's the number one feedback I get is I'm so tired and overwhelmed. We all are, we all are, and just keep talking about it and reaching out and yeah, it's the whole thing at the moment, my girls, I see you.
Yeah, yeah, And you know, I think it's a message that has cut through every single day of the year. But as this episode is being released into the wild, you and I talking today and the story being published in Stellar with those beautiful.
Images of you with your two daughters, it's a.
Week out from Mother's Day, so it's also a time of year where a lot of that sort of you know, quote unquote greeting card messages of what a mother should in inverted commas also look like. It's such a wonderful message I think that you are sharing with your followers, of whom there are many. So that is not a humble brag, by the way, and the final episode of the podcast focuses on where we need to see support
and change on a policy level moving forward. I wanted to ask you, you know, obviously spoiler alert because we want people to listen to your full series, but if there's anything in particular you would single out in our chat today that you think really needs to be tackled, well.
You mean, on a government level.
I'll start with I've presented at the Senate inquiry last year and obviously address the press club, and I'm the most unseerious human on the planet right Like I'm a comedian who danced with Wolvers on Channel ten. Here I am in a political sphere, which is wild to me. But we need I mean, the biggest thing is we don't have a Minister for disability.
We do not have a minister.
Bill Shorten does some stuff for NDS, other ministers share it, but we do not have a dedicated minister for disability inclusion.
That to me belows my tiny mind.
We also just need to improve access to diagnosis and treatment, Increase the Medicare rebate, reduce weight times. We need support programs, we need to support our schools. There's just this bunch of stuff that is in the works. But I think the main takeaway from Anomaliest is I just want people to feel like they have a way forward. Because I remember getting that diagnosis and feeling overwhelmed and didn't know
which tab to open first. I hope that this is just a neat, little easy step one, because there's so many steps to take, and often with ADHD the cruel thing is taking that first step is the hardest. So I want to almost body double my listeners and just
also educate neurotypical people because that's what we need. We need better attitudes and better understanding and awareness so that people don't struggle in workplaces and people don't struggle at school or in UNI, and there's infrastructure around them because the neurotypical people around them get it, you know, we get depression, we get anxiety, we get what to do for people in those scenarios. We need that level of
education around neurodivergence because then everything opens up. So yeah, that's the main takeaway is.
Yeah, I hope, I don't know.
I just hope it starts more thoughtful, meaningful and fruitful conversations.
And I hope it entertains you too.
You do have a lot on your plate, so you probably not looking for another career pivot to add to your resume. And as you said, politics not necessarily your natural habitatancingvolvers optional, but would you ever consider it, would for instance, could we start lobbying for you to potentially become Australia's inaugural Minister for Disability.
I want no part of that business. Absolutely not.
You have to listen to other people's opinions, you have to be somewhat measured, you have to appear in control of your emotions.
I have none of those qualities.
No. I also think being a politician it makes you impotent.
I think you can be powerful.
And flourish without fear of, you know, keeping people wanting to vote for you. You know, an aspect of my job is I have to be liked. There is an aspect of political gameplay in that, you know, my job depends on people downloading my podcast, buying tickets to my shows, following me on social media. So there is an aspect
of me being conscious of the public liking me. But there's another level of policing on politicians, and especially in this country, we are obsessed with electing politicians that are really relatable, and you know.
We don't think about if they're best for the job.
We just think about if we could skull a schooner of beer with them, or if they can sing, you know, powder fingers, my happiness word perfect. We don't think about the best person for the job. And I am not relatable. I get called that a lot, but I'm adhd autistic type a personality, eldest child of an Italian immigrant.
You know, I'm not relatable in many ways, so but I do try to get I.
Just think politically, I just think about the poor pr person who would have to try and control my narrative. I just wouldn't wish that upon anyone.
So no, and I think I'm more powerful.
And I think the biggest punk rock act that I can perform is to keep showing up as myself and keep making things that challenge everyone, and you know, just trying to push that needle fullard on the way conversations
are happening around eurodivergence. I think I've got my own form of rebellion kind of happening in that it is sad, but me turning as a forty five year old disabled woman loudly and proudly is a renegade act, and so I will continue to do that, and that I think has far more reaching power than me trying.
To get elected in that would be a mess.
Well, look, give me a call if you change your mind, because I think there are a lot of spin doctors in Canberra that have worked with people that are a lot less representative of the Australian electorate. In my opinion, I'm just saying vote one em ROSSI I know, give me a ring if you change your mind. But like I said, you do have a pretty full slate ahead of you.
You've talked a.
Little bit about your upcoming comedy tour, Outgrow, and I think this is your first national tour in a while. Limb. You've had a bit on I think we've touched upon that. You mentioned menopause as well. I wanted to ask you a little bit. I think sometimes menopause is one of the last taboos that a current generation of women are taking two and smashing to smithereens. I know, breaking taboos, calling this stuff outs always been a part of your comedy tours.
Can we expect a little bit.
Of all of what we've talked about menopause included when Outgrown hits the stage later this year.
Yeah.
Last five years have been scorched earth for me. It's been as a live performer, lockdowns. I was in Melbourne, the home of lockdowns, so that completely decimated my career. So we had that, then I had the ADHD diagnosis, I gave birth, then we had the lockdowns, then the ADHD diagnosis, then the autism diagnosis, and then I found out I was in hardcore menopause very early, like the
plane had crashed into the cliff. I had no warning, and I remember like looking around, going what what, and headfirst into research around perimenopause and how estrogen starts to do. Thirty five is when we need to be talking about this, thirty five years of age. But in my mind, when you were sixty or so, maybe overs gave one last cough and that was it. Oh, I didn't know about all the other stuff, which also exacerbates my ADHD in autism. So it's just this whole cycle, and I've learned so much.
So outgrown is I've had to be very comfortable without growing myself, and every year it felt like, you know, then there's a bush fire and the forest has to be burnt to the ground for the new growth to come. I've really had to be okay with just everything burning to the ground. But what has emerged is, yeah, a better, stronger regrowth, if you will. And I'm still going to be on that path and I hope that I continue out growing myself till I take my last breath, because
that's how we get better as humans. That's how the world gets better. That's how things improve is we're not in love with our ideals and opinions. We allow growth. So this show is a celebration of that. And there's songs, it's multisensory, there's puppets, there's my dad on stage with me. It's just this whole multisensory experience I'm bringing to everybody. There's going to be smells, original songs, so if you don't.
Laugh, you'll cry.
And I wanted to make because there's been some real funny, dark humor within what I've gone through. And the universal experience of being a woman of a certain age is one that you know, you know, it needs to be spoken about and made.
Fun of and given reverence too.
But I really, you know, I've had press Clubs Act one, not that I'm Beyonce, but press Clubs Act one, Anomalists, Act two, an Outgrown is Act three, and they all go together beautiful, and that's hopefully my nice little packaged and the legacy around this time of my life. They're all to be consumed. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing everyone. I'm doing regionals. I haven't been out in five years, I've been a caged peacock, so I'm really ready.
After the break, EM tackles another taboo, menopause, and gives us a preview of what role it might play in her upcoming national tour. My final question to you, then, I think just to not tie things up in a bow, because look, I can't even tie a bow, and I don't think that anyone could tie all of the different threads of your lived experience and even what we've talked about here today, M, which has just been a snapshot
of all of that. We spoke this conversation about talking about the twin diagnosis that you've been navigating in the last few years, and about also the grief and wanting to go back to ten year old M, and then listening to you just talking about the tour, and it's so obvious that so many different threads of who this person before me is has come from the resilience and the outspokenness and the funniess and the creativity and all of these different things that have created this very unique
platform that you have cultivated.
As a public figure.
I don't know if it isn't either or, but don't you love somebody with ADHD trying to ask a question. Sometimes I get notes from people saying, Okay, I love the podcast, but sometimes you talk for ten minutes. So yes, I hear you, audience, So sorry, Am, I will get to the point.
Feedback you aren't asked for. Let the woman go so vodka.
You chose to be here. I'll defend this. People choose you. They don't get to give you feedback. Okay, thank you, Am.
I really appresent you having my back there, but I
suppose yes. So my question inverted commas, if I ever get to it, is when you talked a little bit about that grief, is there still a part where you look back and think, I wish that I could have done this if I'd had the diagnosis in childhood, if these things had been properly picked up when they should have, and the awareness work that you are doing now to create that generation for your children and the subsequent generations, is there a party think I would have been doing that,
I would have achieved that if I'd had.
That diagnosis early on.
Or do you also look back, as you talked about that acceptance and things making sense, think, now I know that this wide ranging toolkit that I have created from Australian Idol all the way through to podcasts, radio, TV shows, comedy tours, all probably would not have happened if it wasn't for all of these different parts that make up the woman I'm talking to today.
For sure, I think about that a lot, and I've been asked that a couple times, and it's just it's an impossible thing to answer. I mean, I can, with hindsight certainly join the dots on my career and see, you know, going auditioning for Australian Idol, having never sung in public before doing my round of interviews at the end when I got rejected by the Nation in ninth and having the radio bosses hear me in my interviews and offer me a job in radio, having never even thought about that.
Similarly, with stand up, never done told.
A joke or written a joke, but I just wrote a stand up show one day and performed it at the Mail International Comedy Festival.
My career is a series.
Of events, you know, and instances of me doing something I have no business or qualifications in but still giving it a crack. And I know that is because of my lack of dopamine. And when you're seeking dopamine. It's thrill seeking activities. For some people, it's driving fast cars, jumping off cliffs. For me, it was auditioning for a singing show, having never sung in public, and I know my nature in I moved toward experiences and opportunities that frighten me.
I always have and I know why now.
So I don't think I would be as good as I am as many different things. Sorry tall Poppy coming in here, Sorry for saying that.
No, you are very good at very many different things you are.
But I started out I was a world junior herd lass. So I started out as an athlete. I thought I was going to be an Olympian, and I was in every development squad I was. I won the national championships and I was ten. You know, my whole life revolved around athletics. And then when I got really severely injured when I was seventeen, that was when I was first faced with what the hell are you going to do with your life? Because you thought you were going to
be a famous Olympian. I trained every day, you know, it was all my personality, it was all I did. So at seventeen, the world really opened up for me. And I dove in to everything so and I don't know that I would have been that brave if I was diagnosed and medicated, But the way that medication works me with ADHD. It's a great analogy, and I wish
I could remember if he said it. I you know, you live in a dark house when you have ADHD, and when you take the medication, you get a torch and you can shine the torch on the thing you want to.
Do, but you still live in a dark house.
So perhaps I would have been even better because my efforts would have been a bit more organized, and I would have pissed less people off. So we'll never know, but I'm just so glad. You know that the Australian media landscape has tried to pigeonhole me for many, many years, and I've been told so many times over You've got to pick a lane, you got to pick you know, you can't be a comedian and a cabaret and a singer and the writer and the radio.
And you can't. You can't, you can't. And in the end, I was just like, well, why why not?
So I have gone out and created my own corner of the universe where no one bats and elid if. One week on the pot I'm singing with a band, the next we're talking about ADHD Senate inquiry, and then I'm going to do a live show here. But I'm also going to I also have almost a degree in interior design, so sometimes I work that in with my staff.
You know, I make stuff.
I create lots of different things, and I think now I have this ability to not especially with this live show.
I'm bringing the full toolkit.
You are getting all of it because I don't want to be boxed in. And I've worked really hard for the last twenty years to build my community because I wasn't getting jobs.
Mainstream jobs.
I was always the quirky option, or she's too impossible to work with because I said noel a lot of the time.
I asked a lot of questions.
So I think I'm it was very painful. But I look back on everything now and I guess it's all happened as it should because here I sit opposite you talking about two projects that I love and I'm proud of, and I don't think I would have got to make ten years ago if I hadn't gone through what I've gone through. And it is such a privilege to be able to sit and promote something you genuinely believe in.
I've invested in financially myself in my studio with my team. Yeah, I think I've arrived finally to where I was supposed to get to. So what's what's the idea of time travel? You shouldn't stuff anything up because sorry, I wouldn't write back.
To the future analogy, isn't it you change one thing, you change at all. Well, I'm very glad that all of those colorful and diverse and create your own adventure lanes that you wouldn't conform to have led you to this moment in time and specifically to this second in time being on the episode of Something to talk About with Me? Can I just say em I think you're probably the only potential Olympian and I did know that about your hurdling because we've talked about that before in Stellar.
You're probably the only potential Olympian that's been instellar and on Something to talk about, especially in the Olympics year that we haven't had time to talk about, which I think is probably testament to all of your achievements and the work you've done and maybe I should apologize for also trying to force you to run for politics and become a straight as first Minister for Disability. That might be something for twenty twenty five, I think about it.
Let's put it on the solend terrifying, let's give it a go.
M ROSSI.
I know it has been an absolute genuine pleasure to have you in the studio today where we're actually talking remotely, so that's a lie, but to talk to you via zoom has been an absolute pleasure. And you can listen to Anomalis m's new podcast wherever you get your popc and we will have a link in the show notes and also some details for Outgrown, which is m's first big national tour coming up later this year. And thank you again for being so generous and candid with our audience.
I hope you enjoyed that episode of the summer series or something to talk about. Make sure you're following us if you're not already, because we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes of the past year until we're back with a brand new episode on January twelfth.