Summer series: in conversation with Amanda Keller

Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Mastella Podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have had the privilege of sitting down with some of the biggest names in the country. Because when Estralia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come to Something to Talk About. We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth.

I'm thrilled to be here. Hello.

I wanted to open our conversation by asking about something that is really quite poignant. You revealed last year that your husband Harlee, had been diagnosed with Parkinson's around six years earlier. Do you mind if I start by as not at all, how you're all doing, how you're doing, of course, how Harley's doing in your two sons.

I've bought a tissue just in case, because every time I talk about it, sometimes I'm fine, and sometimes it gets a bit overwhelming. Look, Harley's quite remarkable. He's so pragmatic with this. He just gets on with it. And I've gone through a phase of being angry because I'd say things like, oh, come on, stand upright, or your voice. You know, I knew what was it, he'd been diagnosed.

And was my son's.

Twenty first birthday, and I got very emotional talking on air about how it felt to be going to that without him, and how he is normally the archivist of our lives and he would have done the audio visuals and he would have done a speech and all of this. I just felt wrong that I was going without him. And then not long into the evening, my friend said, has here, and as a surprise, he'd organized with a

Did your son Jack whose twenty first birthday did he know?

No, none of us was coming.

None of us knew, and so it was a wonderful rush for all us to have him there. So Harley stayed for about an hour, was there for the speeches, and friends come up to say hello to him, and then he went home, and then you know, the dancing and the rest of it continued. But it was so important, and I'm so grateful that he appreciate the importance. And also the fact he didn't tell me he was coming kind of gave me a night off because I would

What an amazing twenty first.

Birthday gift, you know it absolutely And for him to say, how could I not be here?

That will stay with Jack forever.

I think every time there's a diagnosis in a family, whatever it is, everyone is often on a really steep learning curve, especially if it is something that you might not necessarily have even thought very much about or known very much about. Has it been, to put it mildly, an incredibly steep learning curve for.

You, interestingly only through living through it. Harley's a big science head, so he knew the science, he knew the story, but he chose not to be doctor Google. And some friends at the beginning were saying, hey, here's some remedies I've seen, and it was showing people at the very tail end, and so he thought, I don't want those images in my head, so neither of us. I've remained quite pollannerish on this in that I haven't deep dived

Absolutely, Gosh, can I just object to the words easy way out?

There's no easy way out?

But I know what I'm like, and I'd be prone to overthinking and panic and trying to fix things so out of my control. And I saw a great woman. I see this fantastic woman. She's a kinesiologist, but she's a fabulous therapist. And she said to me very early on, you're in a boat beside Harley. You can't paddle his boat, and you take his agency away by trying to. Because we'd had a similar conversation when my son left home

So it is that radical acceptance.

Thing of I'm in a boat alongside and she said to me, maybe all you have to do is to love him, and psychological that makes so much sense, and that's harder to live by sometimes, but that's there the thoughts I have in my head of trying to be alongside him and not be in his face and just let him deal it with the grace that he is.

I think you've just given voice to and experience. So many people would relate to, Amanda, because that's I think. While we use the word helpless, isn't it when somebody we know is dealing with something that we can't make better for them? And it is part of what is so difficult, so difficult, these situations in life that are beyond our control.

And I feel like I being selfish in not trying to in today and not fixing it for him? Is it okay just to be? And of course it is, and he'd prefer that. So taking a step back for all of us is something I'm trying to do.

Can I ask you a little bit?

Are you and Harley being married for a very long time?

Twenty four years? Yesterday?

Oh? Congratulations, thirty four years? And that is an amazing innings And every relationship, every long term relationship, every marriage has its chapters, seasons eras as Taylor Swift will probably call it. I'm sure we'll hear a song about that thirty four years from now. I imagine the different things that you and Harley have been through, like a lot of couples that you have children, you know, struggles with

Four years ago. Found the card the other day as a postcard.

Of two older people asleep in deck chairs with their mouths might open on a cruise. And it must have been very early in our relationship. I remember it used to be on our window sill and as before we got married, and I said, here is mister and missus Harley Oliver, forty years from now at the old People's Home. I'll love you forever beyond two thousand, because we met it beyond two thousand, and I suddenly thought, we're at thirty four years. You click your fingers and you're there.

And I'm really.

Proud of how we are, well not always how I try and navigate it with him, how we are doing this as a team, and the fact that we are a team.

And so we said, Yestad on our anniversary, we said, aren't.

We lucky that despite all the rest of it, the nut of love is still there? And there probably have been times when you're too busy to actually think about that, whereas we've really had to choose that, and I know it is a choice, and I don't always express it. I can be impatient and cranky and all those things with it, but the nut of it is, I'm very conscious that we are leaning in to who we are now and leaning into all that this experience throws at us,

Speaking of exquisite love, which was a beautiful phrase that you just used exquisite pain to mentioned your sons. So of course, Jack, as we just talked about, turned twenty one recently and Liam is twenty three just last week. So the empty nest syndrome I don't know what we're calling it. In twenty twenty four, you may have a much more modern take on it. How are you and Harley feeling about that side of things?

You know, I think the preparing for it and the imagining of it is worse than the reality of it. Liam left to go to new University in Newcastle four years ago, and I found that hard, really hard. And then Jack he went to live on campus but in Sydney, and I thought I'd never get used to it. But Jack's a party animal, and so meeting up at four in the morning and him getting home at two kind of had a slight clash to it. So to my shock, I found that it was okay. I found that it

Pretty much.

I think it was they have an outdoors education for six months it's a long time. It's a long time, and it's when they're in year nine. So how old are you in year nine? Thirteen forteen.

So my oldest son's in year nine, he's about to turn fifteen, yees.

And I found that so challenging because it's the first time I had to put myself second to what was good for them. And they were allowed to make phone calls. There's no email, they had to write letters home, and whether they having a good time or a bad time, you weren't in charge.

And I thought it was quite profound.

Because the whole point of it was that as helicopter parents, suddenly the kids could prove themselves with each other and start to look for camaraderie in each other and strength that wasn't to do with your parents' perception of you. I found it quite profound the experience that they had. But I found that really hard. And that's one because they believe there is so little when they go, So

My boys are turning thirteen and fifteen.

You can't imagine when they're that age. You can't imagine a moment where they're not in your care.

Absolutely, when you said six months, I know though I was six months, because even a night feels like it's so hard.

And I always embarrassed Liam because I cry every time I tell this story. But at one point we were climbing up you have to the parents go and do hikes with the kids a couple of times during that and they're really hard going hikes. And at one point.

Lim said, I'll help you get to the top here, and I had a flash too.

Was very first day of school. We're at the top of the stairs. He said, I don't think I can do it, and I said, come on, I'll help you out, and I suddenly it was in a blink of an eye, which swapped and he was my guide. And that's the whole point of that whole experience. And I had it in that sentence, just amazing.

Trying to teary through all of that.

Obviously, it's at that moment where they over take you in height.

Isn't that weird too?

That is weird because we express love for a small boy, your children not being weird, but you know, cuddles and kisses, and suddenly when they're men, it's a very different physical dynamic. But the first time he's in a restaurant, I thought, oh, the waiters come behind me and it was Liam and I was so shocked that it was my thirteen year old who was taller than me.

I got such a shock. And then that just keeps going, going and going.

I listened recently to a voice message that one of my sons had left, and I picked it up, and have you ever had anything like this? He said, Oh, hi, Mom, And I'm listening thinking who is this man? It wasn't that boy's voice. So my younger boy, who's still twelve, sounds very different. That's another moment in terms of mom.

And I've always tried to be gracious and accept all those moments. But also I lost my mom twenty years ago, and I want to say to her because I just left home, didn't look back, and I thought, did she feel like this and how I want to say, gee, I'm sorry I was so ungracious, you know, And because I thought my life began when I left time, I thought, how dare my son's lives be beginning after me?

How can that be?

So I try and remind myself to be gracious, and if they don't return with text or something, I think, gee, you know we went overseas and never kept in touch.

Yeah, it's so funny, isn't it looking back at those moments and seeing it through that lens when you talk about, you know, telling embarrassing stories. A lot of people parents are now navigating the oversharing on social media. Conversation for you, Amanda, you've worked in FM radio for a long time. Obviously you're one half of Jonesy and Amanda the Breakfast Show in Sydney, but you've worked for really all of their lives.

It's so interesting because that's exactly what it is. You mind your own life for moments to talk about that might that other people are going.

Through as well. When the kids were little, you.

Could say anything because they didn't know and didn't care. But I did become aware that you have to give some thought to other people hearing these stories. And there's one in particular where and here I am telling it again. But Jack's older now, and who cares. I hope he doesn't. But I was going through a school bag and there was one hundred sandwiches just squashed in the bottom. Week after we you just smashed them all in the bottom.

And how did the ukulele go? I realized that it was not necessary in the end, because the good conversation, which of course is what all of us learn, isn't it, as parents, the best moment. So when you can go I'm really sorry, I stuffed up.

I'm stuffed up.

I'm such an important things.

That's it.

I mean not to be cliched about it. But that's such a gift, isn't it for a parent to give a child, I think.

And for them also to forgive you rather than I just would have held a grudge.

I was as such a grudge holder.

If my mother ever admitted any moment of weakness or guilt, I would have just been surly about it, which he said, Oh, that's okay, and that was the.

End of it.

Coming up, Amanda opens up about her new podcast and her multiple work husbands. Amanda, you're now also hosting a podcast Double a Chattery with your best friend Anita McGregor, where you talk about quote smart, dumb, topical things. I love this because I don't know what your observations are as somebody that's obviously been a consumer of media like all of us your whole life, and then worked in

Because that's life, isn't it, And that's how it is. Well, Anita and I. She's a forensic psychologist, which means that she's a psychologist that works within I guess, the legal or policing system. So she sees sex offenders, people who've transgressed in a variety of ways, who are in front of the courts, and she's a psychologist who sees them, and she's also working at a university teaching this the court. She runs a department, so she brings a very interesting

She said, well, the courts will determine that.

She said, my job is to work out why they're doing it and how they how to stop them doing it. So she has huge compassion, and she said, if we're just going to throw money at the victims, we're just going to be pulling people out downstream. Yes, we need to fund help for the victims, but we also, she said, it's very unpopular thinking we have to fund the perpetrators. We have to fund research way up here. We have

I mean, those two are very different and fascinating topics. Saying you find my imagine you've already done this, but working in radio for so long, but do you find that you're both sending yourself little notes in the middle of the night, writing something down. Something happens that you observe it and you think, oh, that's the thought, because I imagine it was something like that that triggered that conversation.

Well, that's right.

I think it was an article I might have seen in Washington Post or something. But often an eed, I'll be walking along and as I bend down to pick up a dog poo, we'll have discussed something. I say, take a note on your phone, and she'll send me a note that'll make no sense apart from us to us, there's this cryptic sentence we both understand what we're talking about.

Do you ever have moments where you don't, because I often send myself notes if i'm you know, like in the car and I like, send a voice to text or whatever on earth that's called I clearly didn't work on beyond two thousand and a man, because I'm still struggling with what's that thing called where you're putting words in a thing. And then I'll get home it'll be something like and I'll think, what was I trying to say?

Too, And I texted Anita just last week and said, you know how I wrote that thing to you. Do you remember what that meant? Because yes, it left my head long.

Ago working with Anita on this podcast on air, in radio and TV, you have worked alongside a lot of men, so mention Brendan Jones, Jonesy and Amanda Andrew Denton, who's been a longtime collaborator on television radio on the Living Room. Of course, it worked couple people that are very much in the stellar ecosystem, including Dr Chris Brown and Barry Dubois.

It's true, wasn't it.

I hadn't even really thought about that, And it's interesting. With the radio, I've always been grateful never had never having to do that, he said, She said, kind of radio, or let's do girls topic and let's do boys topics. We bring things to the table that we just think are interesting. But it is different. I think to work with Anita because she and I find things different different we find things interesting from a different perspective, for the

As my mother would say.

So that the soup in between the two of us hopefully covers more people than just me saying here's what I think our show should be about and him saying he's what I think it should be about. It's an interesting mix of all those things.

Absolutely, and also in this time where everyone's very antagonistic and the political debate and the tone, partly because of social media, but just there, it does seem to be a lot of anger around a lot of what we call quote unquote cancel culture. Is sometimes there's people raging against each other and not giving each other the benefit

Us, And that's what's interesting about Anita because she has no media background. She's not even aware that there should be discourse, that we should have a different opinion, that we should be all that early FM radio stuff. That was you have to have different opinions, you have to pick a topic that you both going to feel differently about that she said, so I said earlier, I don't do that kind of radio, but particularly with Anita, you know,

I'm not an anti vaxer.

Therefore I don't want to hear you if you're an anti vaxer, rather than tell me what your fears are and it's rationally discussed.

So I kind of.

Took a lot from that as to maybe lead to lean in a bit more. I know, when we had the ULARUS Statement from the Heart and the referendum vote on air, I thought, I don't actually want to interview people who are voting no, and yet probably wish I should have, because hearing people and being able to talk about this stuff makes us all better rather than makes us less. So I took a lot from that book.

Actually, Yeah, she's so right, isn't she? And I hadn't thought about that, the schism of the two miomis and the radicalization that come from intolerance as well, because if we shout each other down and we deny people platforms, then we're probably only in bolding.

Them, emboldening them. And that's what she said happened. She said there's a lot of valid She was very pro vaxed. But she said, there's a lot of valid questions. People were asking, why do I my kids have to remask in school why it's a vaccine okay for pregnant women. But the minute any questions were asked, the pro vaccine people just shut them down. And so it was the anti vax movement who saw a vacuum and for the worst of reasons, thought here's a vulnerable opportunity and hijacked it.

And it's also isn't it about those of us in the media having a bit of gumption and accepting that people might troll you for having a platform for complicated conversations. I refer back to that podcast that you and Anita had about maybe we do need to actually look at some substantial funding for perpetrators and how we stop these problems as well as supporting victims. Is that giving someone a platform or airing their views is not the same as endorsing those views.

That's so true.

I think my secret fear was if they sound rational. I won't know how to argue it. So it was my fear that I wouldn't be smart or canny enough that I'm not lee sales, I wouldn't have enough information to be able to counter what I don't agree with. But maybe just allowing them to say it, you're right, It's not a complicit acceptance, is just saying here's your opinion.

And I think also what you've just nailed there to Amanda, is that that's part of it is that we now look at as a sport. And I'm saying this for all of us, is it's hard work to engage and listen and have your worldview challenge.

It really is.

But look at what's at stake when you look at Trump's America. Look at what's at stake if we blindly follow.

And after the break, how Amanda really feels about Tom Gleeson after that Gold Logi drama five years ago. So we've talked about radio and the podcast, So talk a little bit about TV. You as we talked about the living Room, you also were co hosting Dancing with the Stars for a few years there. Your profile on TV was so huge, Amanda that you were nominated for a Gold LOGI in twenty eighteen, missed out that year to

Tom and I very much made out peace. He reached out not long after that, and to be honest, I wasn't ready to talk to him too early on, and I wasn't bruised by him. I've always respected Tom and I knew he was being comedic, but the rules had changed in that people didn't campaign that way. And I find the logi's really hard. You have to spook yourself and that's what everyone's skill set. It's really uncomfortable, and

Thinks I should have a Gold LOGI not by any means.

I'm quite sanguine about the fact I don't have one and I didn't need to win one to be nominated, And that sounds tripe, but it's so true to be nominated was such an honor, and I'm okay with that, but I wish I'd been able to enjoy the experience more.

You're not on television at the moment. Do you see a role You've just said you're really not too bothered about it, but just from a forecast perspective and in terms of what your career goals are for the next five, ten, fifteen years, do you see another LOGI in your future, which is really also another way of asking another high profile role on television in your future?

I'd like to think so.

I've got some TV things in the works for the last second half of this year. But as much as I was sad to see The Living Room go, and I really love that show, and I think that had legs in it to keep going. Having said that, that schedule was getting so hard for me that I don't mind the calmer life I'm having now with the breakfast radio getting at four o'clock talking for three hours, all the rest of it that comes with that. But I don't know if I do a big, long stint on

Well that is really good to hear, and I really mean that, And then I personally do there will be a LOGI and I know we're not making it Tom, but if there is another LOGI nomination, I'm having a couple of words.

One of the things that also about the TOM thing, he made a joke about how crap the logis were and how ridiculous they were, and I thought that was a shame because it took away they are our awards. They know the travel industry has the rewards. The building industry have the rewards. Whether you think they're tried or not. These are our awards and yes they can be easily manipulated if you want to, but I think that everyone then we had COVID.

Remember COVID. I don't know if you've heard. I'll remind you afterwards.

But it's come back with joy for the industry again because everyone stay at home and watched television. The industry employed people, gave people a laugh, It entertained people during a really tough time and I think we really need to be championing the Australian television industry. So I'm glad we've come back from making fun of it to embracing it again.

Absolutely, and I think you're so right. It's that absence makes the heart grow fun. And when we didn't have the logis for two years, I think everyone from the naysayers through to the people that just love to mock it, we're like, oh, I really miss I think so, and it was.

A kind of return. There was kindness supporting it when it came back.

It's very true. I mentioned doctor Chris Brown because he has now obviously moved to seven Network. He's been a guest on something to talk about as well. He'll be doing Dancing with the Stars this year. Any advice for him? Are you proud to have seen the sequence being handed on the sequence?

That show is always a great show, and Chris is such a great host. I will back Chris in anything. He is a rare beast in that he's he's so dark, humored, but he's so sharp and funny, so that the I think Julia Morris has said this too. He's the brain of a scientist, zipped up in that in that physical person.

But the true Chris is.

Warmer, fun darker, kinder than you imagine. I've been with him walking late at night through the streets of King's Cross after a party or something, and homeless people will come up to him and ask about their cats. And I've never seen anyone who will give more people, more time to more people than Chris does.

He will always stop, he will always talk.

He really is an animal lover and a nerded heart, and I'm always impressed by that.

He's a nerdered heart.

He is a nerdered heart.

Don't ask him about his frequent fly card for Spotlight. He also loves a fancy dress party.

Oh, okay, all right. Well, I must say I did not ask him about that when he was a guest on something to talk about. You're saying not to, but I don't know.

Now I really want to ask. I think maybe I should.

I also mentioned Barry Dumbo, who's a homes columnist with Stella. You two have been also really good friends, and obviously when we profiled him once for Stella, he was talking to you a few times on the phone. He was just navigating a cat diagnosis. It's amazing because a lot of people think this industry, well, it can be ruthless.

And all of us and Miguel too. When I first started working there, I thought, God, how do I deal with Miguel. He was unlike any other character I'd ever met. He's ended up being one of my closest friends. So the four of us just went bang, which is such a shame. I think that TV didn't see the rarity of that chemistry. Well it did for ten years. I mean, I'm not complaining ten years on a television show is an extraordinary thing. I mean, no way complaining that that

Rest of it.

And also that Barry is so open and brave about what he's going through. He helps so many people. He really wears his heart on his sleeve, and in a way, one hand, he's completely invincible. On the other hand, he's so vulnerable when he talks about it. So, yes, he and I the minute I met him, I've sort of we soned each other's but I know you we felt we knew each other. So this show has given me three of the greatest friends of my life.

You hosted beyond two thousand before we got to two thousand. Remember when we used to say the year two thousand spaceships incredible jet packs exactly. This is my final question.

Where's your jet packed? Don't you want to know? I want to know?

Where is it? Like I'm doing my own housework. Why don't I have a robot? Why are we still driving cars instead of little self contained spaceships.

You know, it's a very good question. Sarah.

I saw something recently that said, you know, with all these advancements in AI, why is AI doing the writing and the poetry and the creative work and we're doing the laundry in the housework.

What's happened that we are.

Doing the manual labor while doing the lofty, wonderful creative stuff the humans should be doing.

But it's funny.

Yes, we didn't see a lot of the technology coming, or if we did, there were such small increments, like the Internet. Things like that. Jones will often have a go at me saying you never saw the Internet coming. But it was a series of computers that I remember. The first one, I think was there was a coffee pot in a university lab and they put a camera on it because they wanted to see if it was empty. It was downstairs, they couldn't be bothered going there if

We just as humans. We just need to have a word to AI, don't we yes to make sure that the AI generated technology is doing the menial labor. Yeah, we're doing the fun things.

Absolutely, We've got to ask about.

We do the fun things like having you in the podcast studio today. I'm glad it was me to talk to you today and not AI. When you come back and beyond two thy and fifty, Amanda or I may be replaced so much generated robot. So there we go. I hope you enjoyed that episode of the summer series