Brooke Boney: life one year on after walking away from Today

the biggest announcements of her life. She was quitting the Today Show to move to the UK to enroll in the Masters at Oxford University.

Today Show six years ago as a news and entertainment reporter. Now, twelve months on from that shock announcement, Brook joins me from her dorm room in Oxford to talk about what her life looks like since leaving Today and to chat about some of the revelations in her new memoir, All of It, including her thoughts on body image, fertility, fame, and the truth about First Nations representation on Australian TV. Brooke Bowney, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast.

years ago. I probably just started on Triple J and he'd just finished in Oxford and he was writing a book, and I was like, wow, like that's so impressive, that is so cool. And it didn't even occur to me that those things would be something that I could do. It wasn't even like, oh, that's aspirational. It seemed so far out of the realm of possibility for me, and so to have done it now it just feels surreal,

like it doesn't feel like it's happening to me. I feel like I've stepped onto a different timeline.

master's at Oxford University. Take us back if you could to that morning.

they going to let me do this? Is this? You know, I'm contracted for longer than you know when this offer, you know, is coming through. And I remember calling my agent, Michelle and being like can you I need to speak

to you? Can you sit down? And she was sort of like yes, because you know what it's like if you get a phone call like that, you think someone is like sick, or there's something going on, or I think probably people thought, oh, she's pregnant, like when I had to tell them because I was so sort of

serious with the tone. I'm like, Okay, you need to be somewhere alone and you need to sit down, and just trying to explain to her and sort of like walk her through it was so bizarre, and then you know, as it got sort of closer and closer to the day where I had to tell my boss Burlow, and you know, you know what Burlo's like, like he's so sort of jovial, but you know, quite serious as well.

And so we finish our meeting, like our editorial meeting that we have every day after the show, and I was like, oh, can you just can you just stay? I just wanted to talk to you about something, and he was sort of like, what's going on? And the immediate response from everyone was it was just joy because you know, how could you possibly be upset about that? But in my mind, I was like, everyone's going to be angry at me, believing they're going to be annoyed

at me for you know, disrupting the show. And then of course, once you tell like you know, your agent and your boss and you know, you sort of have people figuring out contracts and things like that, it's really it's very real. And then the moment starts where you're like, oh, I hope this doesn't leak, like I hope that I'm able to announce it, because you know, if it leaks, then it's like, oh, she's leaving, but why? And there's no sort of detail. So I was just so nervous.

I didn't tell anyone. I think I told Carl and Sarah like a couple of days before, and they were both just like, oh, you're going to get off the early mornings. But then they were both really sad that I was leaving and that that was pretty pretty lovely too. I mean, it's so nice to have something that you love so much that you miss it when you and that that's how I felt about them as I was going. And then the morning of so we've got like rundowns so that you can sort of go through the show.

It's sort of like a list, you know, like a contents list, and in each each heading there's a script and there was one heading that said surprise news something like that, and so it all started. Everyone was like a bus like, oh, what's going on? Like who's leaving? Is what's the announcement? And I was getting text messages from people like what's the Today Show announcing? And says and I just sitting there next to each other, both being like they're going to think one of us is pregnant.

They were building it up and we're both like young women, like you know, and then the moment that it happened. I felt so relieved that it was, that it was out and that you know, I can sort of speak about it openly, but also just kind of like sick that like there's a finality to that. You know, you can't really go back after that. And so like once I said it out loud and said it on TV, that's it, I'm going.

media and heard it. It was a real moment. And I was thinking about it when you were talking earlier about about a decade ago, thinking I could never be that person that goes and studies at Oxford and writes a book. You, I think became that person for a lot of people in that moment because you took a risk you were there in a job that we think or you've got that job, you never let go of

that something like that. Obviously in your industry, it's one of the biggest jobs in the country, but whoever is watching or listening, you know, to get to that point in their career and then take this risk, go and do something that a lot of us think about but don't do. Were you aware of that reaction and how how do you feel about that? And what would you say to people that come up and say, oh my gosh, it really inspired me, or I don't think I could ever find the courage to do what you did.

they're just so wonderful. They make you feel so good, and you know, so many of them have become really close friends. But I think for me, I think it depends on why you do it, right. I always wanted to do things so that I could show like young women from the country, or young Aboriginal girls, or you know,

any I guess anyone really like you. You know, if you want to do something that it's kind of it's not beyond you, if you work really hard and if there are lots of people who help you, and if you're lucky basically, and so once i'd sort of done that and I was like, Okay, there's other things that I really want to do. If I don't do them now,

then I kind of never will. And so I kind of got to a point where it felt like the only option, if that makes sense, like to stay would have been sort of wouldn't have been like, oh, I'm so lucky to be here, but it would have been robbing myself of another alternative, If that makes sense.

You know, you have support because it's such a big job and it's a big life when you're on the show. But here I was like, you know, part of stepping into that anonymity and that you know, woman of mystery. Thing that I wanted to do was I meant that I'm you know, it was on my own. I have to organize everything myself. I don't have producers and I don't have any anyone to sort of help me get dressed for stuff or you know, figure my life out. And there have been moments where I'm like, oh, this

is actually it's there's a lot. Yes, not to feel sorry for myself at all, but yeah, like it made me feel grateful for the times that I that I

did have that support. I think going straight from the Olympics into Oxford was was jarring because it was like the Olympics was like the Today Show on steroids, because we were all together for what four or five weeks, like all sort of staying at the same hotel, going in through hair and makeup every day, working crazy hours, just you know, all working our butts off and sore. It was like, you know, being with work people all the time who are like, you know, there are our

friends anyway. But to go from that and having all of the support and the whole network around you, you sort of feel so tightly held and you're there with purpose to getting to London and being on my own and sort of for the first time kind of stopping and exhaling. It was like the two things couldn't have been more different. I couldn't have been more on my own when I got to London. But it didn't feel bad. I still, in that moment, felt like I've done the right thing here.

a swim. Instead, I'm like, you know, putting on my gum boots and trying to get to class in the snow, trying not to slip over and like, you know, break my neck on the way on the way into school. And I think it's not so much they're cold, even that is bad, but it's it's how dark it is. I think Australians take for granted how much sunshine we

have all the time, even in winter. Like the other days on the on FaceTime to my sister and she's like, do you want me to walk outside and I'll show you some sunshine, and like you know, she walked out and it was just like so bright and so beautiful. And then I showed her outside my window and I think it had been great, Like I hadn't seen the sky for a ten days, and that sort of that's a bizarre feeling. Like in those moments, I'm like, oh no, I've really messed this up, Like what am I doing?

What an idiot?

took on her mental health. Brook I wanted just to talk a little bit about apart from the fact that your anonymity was short lived among your classmates outside in the wider culture, because you talk before about you know, going down to redlif going to the beach in Australia, and often that might be a pap is following you and you're writing the book about, you know, the darker side of fame and the unrelenting side of it, and from you know, really serious instances of being stalked and

followed and the intrusion. I'm assuming that your woman of Missy identity is hopefully preserved for the most part when you venture off campus. Can I ask you a little bit about that? What are your observations about celebrity culture in Australia now you've got a bit of distance from it.

or like you could be getting papped. Like it's just sort of like a it's not in the front of your mind, but it's sort of just like omnipresent, you're just always aware that you're in public on display. And also like when you do have those awful stalking incidents, sometimes they are unresolved. You know, the person, whoever it is, is still out there, you know, like they still have maybe they still have a desire to be in contact with you. Maybe they're even more enthusiastic or in you know,

crazy than what they were before. You just don't know. And so, you know, that sort of thing I think is always it's always in the back of your mind, and here, because I'm so far removed from it, I think there's a layer of stress or preparedness that's just not there. So I feel so much more relaxed. And I didn't realize how much of a toll or how much of a weight that was until I was away from it.

doesn't for a lot of people. I did a couple of rounds of egg freezing, and they do this thing where they like they you know, it's got your age on one side, and then you know the number of eggs on the other, and then they've got like a line and it tells you like how likely you are to have a live birth based on how many eggs

they retrieve. And it's really daunting because you're like, what, like, there's a chance that this won't work, Like I'll pay all this money and put my body through all of this and then it might not even yield any positive results for me. This isn't like this is a rip off. There's no justice in this. And then the more that I learned that, I was like, wait, it's the same for me. Like men, their fertility drops off, like sperm

quality goes down, the sperm count goes down. There's all of these environmental factors now that are around us that mean that you know, no one is as fertile as what we sort of used to be. So I was like, we shouldn't be waiting so long if we want to have babies. This is crazy. Why do we delay it for so long? And then finally we're like, oh no, no, we're desperate to do it. We're going to pay tens of thousands of dollars and we must do this in the next two years. It's so it's so weird as

a woman. I don't know whether you felt like this, but you know, you spend your whole life trying not to get pregnant. You know, from your whole twenties, you're like, you know, please, you be so happy when you get a period, but then it gets to a certain point you're like, oh no, oh, no, I'm going to run out of time, and it's like overnight, it just sort

of switches. It's so bizarre. So I think I you know, and I wrote about it at the time when I did my egg freezing, But every time I have a conversation with a woman who's in her thirty something like, please, for the love of God, even if you have to borrow money from your parents or something like or I don't know, figure it out, freeze your eggs because it means you know, you're going to be able to work,

you know, for longer if you feel like it. But also you're not going to have pressure when you're dating to feel like you have to settle down with the person that you're with, or even like the timing of things, like you have just a little bit more control, or at least you feel like you've got control over it.

But there's this really interesting fact. I don't know whether it's the same now, it's what it was when I froze mine, but apparently most women don't even go back for them because they either don't decide they don't want to have children or they feel pregnant naturally. It's just like an insurance thing.

really we should be asking ourselves. Is this person the person that I see myself raising a child with if that's what you're wanting, but also if it doesn't work out, Is this somebody that I see myself co parenting with? I mean, I love that, and that's again I mean, I'm obviously older than you, but that's not a conversation that would have happened a couple of generations ago.

would behave in that situation. Like if you can tell someone's not going to be pleasant in that dynamic, then maybe that's a sign that you, I don't know, shouldn't be together or at least shouldn't be having children together. Yeah, but I feel like it goes against my natural inclination to be like a bit more of a romantic and a bit more hopeful, but it is I think it's wise to consider that stuff.

your relationship like with your body now? And why I was body image something that you I know I've spoken about it before, but you wanted to address quite early on in the book.

be like my life would be perfect. And you know, as I sort of grew into my body a bit more and I guess sort of became a bit more comfortable with myself kind of all around, I was like, oh no, actually, like this is fine, like you and more than that, like I think one of my nieces were born and i'd been through like the freezing process.

It really shifted the way that I thought about the way that I look and the way that I feel about how I look because one of my nieces looks so similar to me, and I think she's so beautiful She's the most precious little thing, and the thought of her ever feeling bad about herself actually makes me feel sick, Like even thinking of it makes me want to cry, that she would feel anything but love for herself. And then I was like, well, why shouldn't I should extend

that grace to myself? And like, how could I be or like, have any sort of negative or anything other than lovely to say about myself, Like, you know, my mom and my nan and my aunties would think that about me, so I should. I don't know, I should

feel that way about myself as well. And that's not to say that I had like particularly low self esteem, Like I think it was just sort of the normal self criticism that anyone has, like, oh, you know, I feel a bit chubby, so I'm not gonna wear a bikini to the beach, or you know, I feel like i've got cellults, I'm not gonna wear short shorts or something, which is like, in hindsight, it's ridiculous when I see photos of myself from when I was like eighteen or

nineteen now, I'm like, I should have been walking around in a bikini all the time, wearing one to work, even like that, you know, I wish that I and everyone says this right like that you could go back and be like, gosh, God, damn it, woman, like, don't feel like that. I think that. The thing about the egg freezing as well, was that for the first time my body was something other than how it looked it was.

It was really useful and and I felt just so wonderful sort of sitting in it and thinking about like, you know, nourishing it and what it needed to be able to like grow my you know, genetic contribution to any baby that would come from the eggs. And it was sort of feeling those those hormones and what they were doing and seeing your body change because it change is quite rapidly when you're doing egg freezing because they have to sort of grow and make space in you Tommy.

So just to sort of see those changes happen and feel them happen, you're like, oh, no, this is miracle, this is wonderful. But at the same time, in seeing like, oh, I'm mostly pretty comfortable with my body. If I could just change a couple of things, or like I feel pretty good or whatever. Seeing other friends sort of struggle with their weight or their idea of themselves that was completely foreign to me. And I know that sounds really privileged to say, because so many people do stuffer from

meeting disorders and aren't happy with themselves. But it's so bizarre to me that someone could feel like a stranger in their own body or not feel comfortable in their own Like you live in it, you know, you can't escape from it, and so then if you feel such awful things about it, then you have to be in that all the time. And I just have so much sympathy for them, And I mean, I'm not even going to say anything useful. I just wish it was different.

I wish there was something that I could say to be like, no, but it looks so beautiful, like you are so beautiful.

really don't understand someone else's lived experience. Brook. You reference some research in the book which I really wanted to talk to you about about our body image, and you say, interestingly, despite the saturation of mainstream media white people and white bodies, research from the UK based Mental Health Foundation shows that black people have a healthier relationship with their bodies than the rest of the population. Was that surprising research to you?

That's really fascinating research. I certainly found that as a white woman.

but I'll just give you the gist of it. I think because of the proliferation of images of people like Kim Kardashian or others, where you know, being curvy is popular again. You know, it's sort of something to aspire to. You. People are getting bibls and things like that, and breasting plants that their idea of themselves because they sort of

fit outside of what the sort of norm is. So so like Kate Moss or or Nicole Ritchie or whatever, those sorts of things didn't apply to them, like those sorts of rules or those sorts of like strict guidelines of what's acceptable and what's not didn't apply. And so

that that was my read of it. It was interesting because sometimes I like, I feel like, even though I'm quite thin, like I still have like curves, And sometimes if I see someone who has like an excellent body that's like quite muscular and like thin or whatever, and I think, like, oh, you know, I've got a big bump, Like I've always had a big bum, So I don't have to feel jealous or I don't have to compare myself to that because we're so different. Does that make sense?

that's I think a really fascinating insight into why that might be.

like that? Whereas I think, because I find off on women of color, it's almost it's just beyond my capacity to compare, because it's just not something I could ever emulate. I think. So, yes, now that you say that, you're right.

This is something I've actually discussed on this podcast before with well a former Breakfast TV compatriot of yours, Tony Armstrong, who writes a lovely testimonial for the book and regular listeners of this show would know. I was asking about the balance between knowing the power of being a really positive role model just by being there, in the power of representation, but also the fact that it brings we've seen for you, Brooke, that it also brings a scrutiny,

a level of vitriol. I mean, a level of let's face it, just really awful racism leveled at you. I love the way you've expressed it in this notion that am I a bit of a sec to be able to put myself through this, but knowing that I'm also helping if I am here and I'm representing.

was in Canberra actually in the press gallery. I think it was the first time that someone had been on the on the campaign trail. So a lot of the time when I was going into these places, it was like, oh, this is important. This feels like something I need to do, not just for myself, but for those who sort of come after me, and you know, for everyone else, for the benefit of Australia as well, Like it's important for

us to be able to have those conversations. But over time, and I think like with the rise of social media, it became sort of harder and harder to do in a way that felt like I was striking a balance that felt genuine you know, where I was genuinely having an impact in any kind of conversation, and you know, you sort of measured that against how much backlash you

got on things. So remember the first week that I was on the Today Show was when I talked about how we celebrate the twenty sixth of January, and you know how I kind of didn't really want to do it. And I learned really quickly that there are so many people who want to deliberately misinterpret things that you say because they don't like you well, you know, they don't

want to understand you. And more than that that there are so many people who don't fully engage and sort of just get the top line like, oh you don't like Australiada, that must mean that you think this. So then you get really like quickly categorized and it takes you know a lot to sort of develop a fuller picture for people to develop a fuller picture of you. And so after a while, I was like, I don't

know that the balance is there for me anymore. You know, if it's kind of stacks up like this, if this is the reason that I'm doing this, you know, to share our perspective, but then this other part hurts so much, like this is this is not healthy, Like I don't know that this is worth it for me anymore. And I don't know, like, you know, I love TV and I especially love live TV, so maybe it would be

something that I kind of come back to. But I think there has to be some sort of what you're doing is worth it for the amount of things that are coming back in, Like it has to be some sort of energy trade off or something to get a bit woo woo. And for me it kind of felt

a bit of kilter. But I think it would be the same for women, right, Like if you're the only woman in a boardroom, or if you're the only woman in like a senior management position and you think, oh gosh, like I'm having an awful time because of you know, these reasons. But it's important for other young women to see me here and for me to be able to represent them and to make decisions that reflect their best interests.

At a certain point, you'd be like, I don't know if this is helping them as much as it's hurting.

coming into the industry. But I'll quote you here. We'll see that there's no problem finding talent, the problem is in retaining it. Your story would appear to be exhibit A. Can I ask you a little bit about that?

think that that's an issue with the talent. I think it's I think it's an issue with the opportunities that are being given and the support that's given. And you know, having worked there and having seen the report and what people said, I think that there were only maybe a couple of people who hadn't experienced some sort of racism while they were working there. And look, I don't want to lay the boot into the ABC because it is.

It's a wonderful place for a lot of reasons, but you know, there are some challenges like their own in any workplace. I think I'm so glad that there are more of us now than there ever have been before. If I've played any small role in that in any way, then I feel incredibly proud.

a bizarre thing to do. Like I remember when they first first named me and there was always press around it and everyone was like wow, like this is such a big deal. And when I explain it to people in an international context, like if I explain that to someone of here, like what, there have only been white people? That's so weird.

And I think that part of that challenge is, you know, mitigating some of the worst of it, like you know, what we were talking about before, which is challenging in a contemporary context, because how do you know, how do you police social media? How do you police trolls? It's like a question that none of us really have the answer to. But there are things that make it easier.

And I think the things that make it easier are things that we sort of did well on the Today Show and I was really well supported, and I had the support of my colleagues and the unwavering support of my boss, and those things do make it easier. I think we've kind of all got a lot of work to do in how we work in that space, and I think a lot of those programs are being rolled back in different parts of the world, which might make

it more challenging. I don't know. We've certainly had a lot more work ahead of us in the coming years and decades.

their mainstream media. And the power of that is so unbelievable, because Brook, I can only imagine what it would have potentially meant to you to be a young girl and see yourself reflected back to you in mainstream media a lot more than was happening at the time.

to see ourselves reflected back. But if we like flip that the inverse is that if you don't see yourself reflected back, or if there is only a certain group of people reflected in our mainstream media, or you know, the way that we see ourselves, that means that there are large sways that are invisible, or that you know that we don't think exist, and for Indigenous people, you know, given the challenges that we've faced in the first couple of hundred years, I think to not exist or to

not be represented in that way it cuts deeply. But it cuts in a different way because it's it's a bit of a rasure or it's a bit of denying that you you know, you have a right to be

here or that your place is in this country. And so it means more than just being like, oh, yeah, for this magazine spread or for this TV show, we need to have a balance of brunettes, people with dark skin, people with light skin, because I know that some of it kind of feels like that now, and it feels like that to me even I'm like, oh yep, tick tick tick, We've got all of you know, the things

going on here. But that's the reason that it's important, because if we don't have it, it says to young people, and it says to all of us, like, this is who we are, this is what we look like. The ones that aren't here, they're not represented, they're not actually a part of us, and they're they're not only not included in conversations, but they are they don't even.

The studying is really amazing. I mean, I know I've got exams next week, and when I have to do my economics exam, I probably won't think this, but the academia is so wonderful. To be able to use your brain in a way that you know you never have before, to stretch yourself like that is it's such a privilege. So I don't I really don't know. If you hear of anything good, let me know.