Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit down with some of the biggest names in the country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come
to Something to talk about. Being investigated by the Australian Electoral Commission was not on Abby Chatfield's BINGO card for twenty twenty five, but after interviewing Anthony Albanesi and former Green's leader Adam Bant on her podcast HiT's a Lot, Abby found herself at the center of several conversations about the recent federal election campaign.
In fact, some.
Days at scene there were more headlines written about Abby than they were about either the Prime Minister or then Opposition leader Peter Dutton.
When women do more than one thing, they're deemed as inft at all the.
Things they do.
But when men do more than one thing, it's like, wow, he's a footed player, can read an autocube.
Whereas women.
If I am on reality TV show, I host a reality TV show, I have a podcast, I do radio, I do all these things, then I must be good at nothing. Because if I'm a reality TV show host, I can't only think about politics. If I think I don't have politics, how could I be funny enough to have a radio show. If I have a radio show, I'll be actually this influencer. And it feels like people think it's a zero sum game.
Today Abby sits down with me in the Something to Talk About studio to unpack her decision to speak out about politics and the double standards in play when it's a young, famous woman on the Internet who dares to do so. We also talk about life and love as she prepares to turn thirty, what it's like to be in the middle of a very public feud, whether or not we might see her mum on The Golden Bachelor. Abby Chatfield, Welcome back to the Stellar podcast.
Thank you back again for our yearly catch up.
I was gonna say this is how I get to catch up with you once a year.
It seeks down.
We have a little conversation with annoying microphones in the way, but then it's the cover of Stellar. So it has been almost a year between Stellar covers. A lot has been going on, a lot to unpack you and me. But I want to actually throw forward a little bit because later this month June you've a milestone birthday coming.
Up, thirty thirty.
Oh my goodness, how are you feeling about the Big three zero?
So excited. I've never been one to be scared about aging. I've never really understood people that are freaked out about it. I actually I've even tried to because of societal pressure and expectations. Everyone's like, oh, don't ask my age. I go why, I'm happy that I've made it to thirty. Very exciting, And I don't know. I love aging because every year you look back and how they say, if you cringe it yourself a year ago, then you're making progress.
Like every year, I think that I get better and smarter, as everyone does. I think you learn more, you understand more, and you look back at things you did a year ago and you go, wow, what basic thought or what a basic thing that I did, or you know, even emotionally, what an awful relationship I was in four years ago because I hadn't done.
The work or whatever.
And I'm excited to be thirty. I'm everyone in my lives is their thirties are the best.
So I can't wait.
Thirties are great.
And I think something else that happens with a lot of people when you have a birthday is apart from that, particularly for women, it's like, oh my goodness, I'm running out of time of getting old or where's the time gone? Is that a lot of people think what have I been doing? But for you, Abby, I know it always looks different from the outside, but they're surely that couldn't be one of the when you have that cringe, god.
Cringe moment.
I would imagine one of the things for you, surely is not I haven't done enough stuff.
Yes, definitely not that. That definitely is not a thought that crosses my mind. Because his whole career was kind of an accident.
You know.
I was a property analyst and then I went on The Bachelor as a joke and then this all kind of happened. So it's sort of like when you and this might say depressing, but when you have no goals to reach, you can't really fail at those goals. Not in that you should do nothing, but in that everyone you know, people ask me, what are you going to do in five years?
What's next? Ta da da, and I go, I'd love to know.
I have no idea, And yeah, I've been so lucky to do so many different things just for yapping.
Because you would never have been able to brew Dick five years ago if somebody had said that to you.
Where are you going to be in five years?
Because five years ago was when The Bachelor was I just finished airing was covid?
Oh my god, it was covid five years ago?
And I just started the podcast and I thought, you know, maybe I got a hundred listens whatever something to do in lockdown and yeah, now it's going really well, and I interviewed the Prime Minister. It's crazy and the formula of the Greens Adam band and it's just a very yeah, I'm very happy with all that I've done, and I'm very excited for a holiday in between all that I've done.
To come back and possibly do more.
Let's see, good way to spend a thirtieth birthday, I think is a holiday? Yes, But that partly why I wanted to speak to you today was because of a lot of issues that came up during the federal election and I thought I'd really love to sit down and chat to Abby about some of this. And I've got a few headlines here that came up, for instance, during the election, and Abby when you just said, couldn't.
Have predicted anything.
When you look back to your unexpected career and being catapulted into the spotlight after being the runner up on the Bachelor in the twenty nineteen series, very few people, I imagine yourself included, would have predicted that I would people like me would want to sit down with you in twenty twenty five, and the first thing I want to talk about is politics, your.
Role and commentary around the federal election.
I I mean, very exciting that we get to talk about this, but I just want to say before anyone has to go with me, everyone is acting like I think.
I'm a political expert.
Everyone's like she thinks she's she thinks she's she gonna get to politics at it.
And it's just it's not that I think I'm a political expert.
It's that I have a big platform and I have certain beliefs and I just voiced those beliefs. So everyone holds me to the standard of being a political expert or a political commentator quote unquote. If I wanted to do that, I would get into a newsroom, or I would I would get into politics.
I would try to get into politics.
I just wanted to use my platform to talk about politics because it was a very important time and currently globally with the far right movement getting bigger and bigger. Although it's at the time, let's say at the time earlier this year, it wasn't looking good in terms of far right fascist movements overtaking the world.
And now slowly like Canada has rejected it. We've rejected it.
I think it was Romania, so another slowly we're seeing a rejection of it. But at the time it was more panic induced. It wasn't that I thought I was some political expert. Just before we get into this, I just want to clarify that because everyone seems to, oh, you're an expert on everything.
Now it's like, no, I just have ADHD and talk a lot well.
When I just introduced you for this episode of the Stellar podcast, I did not identify you as political commentator. When people listen to it's a lot the artwork is not shot with Parliament Housing Canberra in the background, but you are daring to weigh into these issues. I will just touch upon some of those headlines I mentioned a few minutes ago. Here just a sample, because quite frankly, you generated probably more headlines than Anthony Alperansi or Peter
Dudd and put together. Abbi Chatfield joins Green's push to keep Dunn out in new ad. Abbi Chatfield post to be probed by Australian Electoral Commission. Abbi Chatfield cleared of wrongdoing by AEC after interviewing Anthony Albanesi on her podcast. Abbi Chatfield despairs as her political hero, Greens leader Adam Bant faces election defeat. ABC believe Abbi Chatfield is the way to go for Australia's political debates.
I mean, as I say.
The fact that you became a player, not because you were saying Okay, here's political commentator, here's political heavyweight.
Abby Chatfield's verdict on it.
You were using a platform to interview people, make commentary. No one's saying that anyone has to agree with anyone, but the oxygen.
That it created. How did that sit with you?
Oh?
It's so annoying because what happens is, as you probably know more than anyone, I feel as though there's this thing with me, in particular with the mainstream Australian media where I do anything and suddenly it's as though like I was saying before I think that I'm an expert, when it's actually just.
Journalists.
Is that term lightly when it comes to daily mail people who are writing articles knowing that we'll get engagement, because if there's a headline saying that I seem to think that I know anything about politics, it'll get negative engagement and maybe positive engagement as well for people that
like me and follow me, but mainly negative engagement. And there's this flooding of headlines about me, then people think that I'm an expert about They think that I think that I'm an expert actor, so I'm there writing all the articles about myself, when in reality, I just wanted for my audience to understand the literal basics of the election, like how preferential voting works, or.
The difference between labor and liberal.
Because around this time I was also doing Married at First Sight recaps, so I had this whole new audience. And I would have done it regardless, but I think it was really good to bring an audience that hadn't ever thought about the election that were coming for pop culture stuff and for them to realize, oh, I shouldn't just do I don't know a throw I shouldn't do a throwaway vote. I shouldn't just go, oh, labor and liberal the same, it doesn't matter. I should think about independence.
I shouldn't listen to American oric saying that it's a wasted vote if you go it from an independent or Greens or a smaller party, a minor party. So it was me just trying to get my audience to understand basics and understand even just that there is a vote compass, very basic stuff, and then suddenly it's turned into this and the AEC stuff was just a whole other level of I believe discrediting smaller voices, but also discrediting outspoken
young women. And it seems to be in media. When women do more than one thing, they're deemed as inept at all the things they do, but when men do more than one thing, it's like, wow, he's a footy player and he can read an AUTOQ, whereas women. If I am on reality TV show, I host a reality TV show, I have a podcast, I do radio, I do all these things, then I must be good at nothing. Because if I'm a if I'm a reality TV show host, I kin't only think about politics. If I think I
don't even have politics. How could I be funny enough to have a radio show. If I have a radio show, i'll be Actually it's an influencer. And it feels like people think it's a zero sum game. And this is why these headlines frustrate me so much, because it's positioning me as having an ego about politics, but also as oh, she's trying to be an expert on something new. It's like, I just I'm literally asking questions. I'm interviewing people as
you are now. I'm literally inquiring, And yeah, it's quite frustrating. And like I said, the AEC thing was the most frustrating and made me very feel really targeted, as I feel that I'm oft an a scapegoat for a lot of these center right or right wing or conservative or older audiences in terms of the media because of how the media portrays me as being the spokesperson on things and they go, oh, she's talking again, you know what
I mean, it's this weird cycle. So that's how I felt about the certain line.
There's a lot of fascinating threads of that chat that I'd like to pursue. One of them would be the gender aspect that you raised there and Hannah Ferguson, the founder of Cheek Media. She recently addressed the National Press Club and she said influenza has been the dirtiest word of this campaign. The agenda is clear to undermine our intelligence, to pain us as untrustworthy. There's nothing wrong with being an influencer, but the label is intended to cause significant
reputational damage. The impact is deeply misogynistic. Would you agree with that gender aspect of it? Do you think there is a sexist or potentially even misogynistic component to the response? Yeah.
I wrote an article about this in twenty twenty, actually about how influencer is. At the time, I felt as though it was a very gendered insult, almost as times gone on. Personally, if someone wants to call me influencer and as an insult, I don't personally care, but I do care about the impact on other women and on the industry as a whole. So it's kind of like the whole idea of slutshaming. This is how I see it.
I don't personally care if someone calls me a slut because I go, well, I don't have any shame in sleeping with lots of people, right I personally have no shame, but I don't like slut shaming in terms of how it impacts women and how it is a patriarchal idea
that's really enforced. Same with influencing, it seems to be throughout time whenever women dominate industries, it's then discredited and undermined, even things like teaching and nursing, incredibly important industries the backbone of our society really that is continue undermined in terms of their pay package, in terms of where they're treated by patients and parents, and the disrespect they get.
And I believe.
That's because it's predominantly women that are doing it, and it's also assumed that women should be the natural caretakers when it comes to influencing. I don't think that just discrimination is as intense as it is towards women who are literally saving lives and literally educating in the future. I'm not going to claim that I'm on the same level as a teacher or nurse, but I do think it's a similar repeated notion that women are dominating. We earn more money than men in this industry. We have
a louder voices, we have bigger platforms. Women are the main spenders and the main engagers in podcasting and in social media, so then it's seen as lesser value.
It's also funny.
I think Hanna said it's on her podcast or it may be in her press club, and it is also my friend so love her so much. She I think she was saying maybe it was over dinner with me. I can't remember when she was saying this.
Because she's the same all the time. She's wonderful at the time.
But Mark Boris, for example, he would never be called an influencer. He's a business owner first, for sure. But there are many business owners. For example, Brittany Lee Saunders, she has that incredible business fate. I think think women call her the business owner, but I think everyone sees her as an influencer or a YouTuber. It's kind of like that's the lowest common denominator. And I think in
this election that was even more so the case. These far right men who are posting about restricting abortion access, or these men that are doing mocking videos of me which was all over my for you page, that are far right, and they're blatantly openly misogynistic. They openly don't want women to have rights and immigrants to have rights and people who are pressed have rights, First nations people, Yet they're not called influencers. They called commentators, they called
media personalities. Yet me, someone who's hosted TV shows, radio, I've done every medium you can do, Yet I'm an influencer when it comes to politics. So it is quite reductive and dismissive. But personally, my theory is anyone that has an issue with influences for a sexist reason, I think, well, if you're offered money to post on the Internet, you would take it and you would then be an influencer.
So I think with a.
Lot of these men it comes from jealousy of not being able to hone in on that aspect. Obviously, others don't like influences for other reasons whatever. When it comes to the sexism and misogyny, I think that it's a very easy way to discredit women and also undermines how much intelligence and full thought and planning and kind of business mind it takes to have a following that is dedicated and engaged enough to monetize or a podcast, and we're talking about before how much effort it takes it
in the podcast people. Actually, so you rock up and you yap and you go home, and it's hours and hours and hours of work, and it's work that.
We enjoy doing, but it's not just nothing.
And then I think, sorry, I'm going I'm going on, but I have so many thoughts about this.
Then I think about, you.
Know, the whole idea of we'll influencing isn't a real job and it should be dismissed because you could quote don't work, which okay, I've had a nine to five job. I've done radio, TV, everything that I could do, and I would say I will. I personally work more hours doing this job. That doesn't mean that I work more hours than everyone else has a normal job. Personally, how I operated in a nine to five I would sleep on night boss's desk and I would go for lunch
from one till four. So personally, my work ethic is better doing influencing. That doesn't mean it's a harder job, but I do work. But also if someone thinks I didn't work, that's fine. My issue then comes with why do we then have to work ourselves to a bone to prove the way worthy of having a platform or having a voice. I think it's fine to think the influencers don't work enough because the pay is completely out weighs the actual hour's input.
Absolutely.
But when you say that influencing isn't a real job, even though I mean the ATO fucking thinks it does.
Jesus Christ, the ATO is on my back all the time.
But it really makes out like our only worth comes in a real job, only exists if you're working yourself to the bone.
Which is a whole other conversation about capitalism.
But I'll let you ask me other question because I've been talking for forty five minutes.
Well, everything you say, there's like five other things that I want to ask about.
But I'll go back actually to.
When you was saying you wrote about this five years ago, about the sexism inherent in the way that we dismiss women or try to put labels on Well, you're getting a little bit too.
Big for your boots.
There as somebody that feels sometimes closer to one hundred and.
Thirty than turning thirty.
I remember when Julia Gillard became Prime Minister in twenty ten, and in that time she would sometimes she had a morning tea where there were god, I mean, race yourselves people from women's media quote unquote there who were being called mummy bloggers at the time. So fifteen years ago that was the parlance blogger, is this mummy blogers that?
And I remember writing about it thinking well, why is that any different to you previous prime ministers like John Howard going and having mourning tea with the Australian cricket team. This is a photo opportunity. They're talking about serious issues. They're going on speaking to different high profile figures and as you say, that's an exchange of ideas. Is that this not what we want from our elected representatives. We want them to be representing the entire country, which by
the way includes a few women. Maybe what everyone will you may want to remember, So mummy blogger, I feel was weaponized in the way that the phrase influencer has been during this recent federal election.
That's really interesting.
I was in grade ten when that was happening, so I didn't know about this bummy blogger era. You're so right about politicians need to speak to the everyday Australian and we put a threshold on who was allowed to be engaged in political conversation that only allows a certain group of people to be engaged and aware of politics, and I think that's what mainstream media want and what
the two major parties want. And when we have people like quote unquote mummy bloggers or influencers speaking to their audiences, people get threatened because then the public can understand how much their vote actually counts. And it feels like when we exclude certain groups people, particularly women in this instance, but all different marginalized groups, and we exclude them where
making their vote count a little bit less. Because the way that a lot of young people vote, I do't know if it still happens, but when I mean fifteen years ago, is that long ago. But things have changed very rapidly with social media in terms of what the kids do in these days, and I love it. I
think they're slightly more engaged. But I think when I was a teenager and even in my early twenties, all my friends voted how their parents voted, and how their parents voted is how their dad voted, So really a household was almost led by the male corporate vote, which is what these press conferences usually were filled with people that read the Financial Review or you know.
The Australian.
And now we have more engagement so I feel like it's distributing that power of the vote more so to every single person. And the reality is everyone had an issue with me talking about the election, but no one could say anything that I said that was wrong. It was very like I said, it was preferential voting, it was year four, the government stuff, you.
Know that not everyone remembers or knows.
I had to do a little refresher to make sure all my worting was correct, obviously with like minority government and hung Parliament and making sure it's all correct.
But the reality is everyone.
Should have access to this information and everyone should understand how much the policies actually tangibly affect them, rather than just thinking that politicians are for that middle aged, corporate group of people. Because the reality is the actions of politicians and political parties impact everyone, but they impact young people the most because we're going to be here for
the longest time out of everyone here. So I think it's very interesting the way that it makes me suspicious when there is a resistance to having every day Australians being involved in politics.
And coming up is getting married something Abby and her partner Adam Hyde is starting to think about.
As you and I are speaking. It's June.
Next month the newly formed Anthony Albanezi government will see it. Parliament will resume for the first time in July. So obviously in the recent weeks has been a lot of very closely contested seats and one of the high profile casualties was somebody that you just mentioned, Green's leader, Adam
bann Abby. What I actually wanted to ask you about was the way that some people would respond to that news, whether that's great news or bad news for them personally, dependent on their political allegiances, rather than thinking about that would go oh great, Abby, Chatfield's going to be devastated, and that's their first reaction.
Yeah, they're obsessed.
It's really sad, But I think it's really funny because Adam bent is a lovely man. He's so great, he's wonderful. In Australia, we don't have a system like the US. It isn't like this cult of personality thing with Trump, for example, even sometimes Democrats, even Harris to a certain degree, had that and Obama had that for sure, but not as insidious as Trump. But people have a really touchment to individuals. We're in Australia. You know, when I was in that era with Gillard and Abbott and all of
all of this chaos. I remember when I was there was a year we had three prime ministers in a year or something. We don't have that attachment to individuals. So it is funny people will go and crying about Adam Bent still a comment still today anything I got a dancing video cry about Adam Bant. I think Adam Ban was a great leader of the Greens. Adam Bent lost his seat. That's that's upsetting for him. The Greens aren't non existent, and my main motivation is to deter people,
not deterbeoble is too. People think about the impacts of the major parties and I would hope that a minority government would exist soon so that could also come in the form of supporting independence. I'm not and this is the mistake I think a lot of people on the right make is because they are particularly Trump supporters, Australian Trump supporters. They are in they are under the influence of a cult like personality. Some of them are actually in a cult and they think that everyone else exists
that way with politicians. I'm not a fan girl of Adam Bant. I like the Greens policies and he was the leader at the time, so I have no personal feelings about it. Even the headline then it's is Abby show's despair. I think I uploaded an Instagram story going guys on freaking out. It's all I did, in between four hundred other stories, and then telled on too like I'm some overly emotional again, overly emotional, hysterical woman who's sobbing about Adam Bant.
That sucks.
Larisa Waters is an incredible Greens leader. She has been a lawyer, she's a woman, she is a single parent, I believe currently and I met her.
And she's from Queensland. Like May, I think it's fabulous.
So having new leadership isn't something of the Greens, isn't something that makes me cry or upset. I was trying to get progressive policies on the table for Australians. It wasn't that I had a sports team that was going to win. And it's not the NROL Grand it's not the side of Origin. It's I felt as though Green's policies would help and the Greens did well in the Senate considering, and I'm not crying about it as much as they'd love. It's bizarre that the first thought is
I'm going to get Abby Chatfield. That's because of headlines like this. It reinforces their ideas that I am emotionally invested in things. Both sides think that I think that I'm an expert and that I'm emotionally invested in the outcome. But the reality is I'm trying to reduce harm during an election year that I think was really pivotal in our history.
I think it is also emblematic of the fact that we are living in hyperpartisan times where there is often a lack of humanity or grace shown for anyone that has a different view, and I think that you can see that bubble up at election times and election nights and in the days after, where people will go ha ha ha, your side loss, like it is a football game example, that you just gave what about for you?
Then on the other sides, So I watched, I was glued to all of the media platforms on election night, and when Peter Duddan conceded, I thought there were a lot of great speeches that night on all sides of the political divide, and I personally thought that Peter Dunn's concession speech was fantastic, Yes, and I'd love to ask you about that, Abby, how you feel about that And do you think that we as a society show enough
grace when the other side doesn't win. Whoever we feel because we all saw globally what happened in twenty twenty in the US when Donald Trump wouldn't concede. I think you know, I was never necessarily huge Bill Shorten fan, but I thought his concession speech in twenty nineteen against Scott Morrison was incredibly gracious. I just think I'm just trying to make it quite partisan. Yes, it's important in a leader, even if they're about to pack out the door.
So again, very long adhd worded question here, but I did want to ask you about that notion about it being a football game and about this hyperpartisanship, because I definitely think that the two sides can.
Give as ugly as each other.
Yes, I think that the concession speech from Dutton was good, great, wonderful, and as you said, it's very important that there is a calm and dignified exit for the sake of that party in particular.
No matter which side of the island is.
I do think though of this idea that both sides can be as bad as each other is interesting and quite frustrating for me, to be honest, because one side is saying they want to restrict women's access to abortion, they don't want to care about climate change, they don't think that they should be welcome to country. They think that we shouldn't give any assistance or mine to our First Nations people as a systemically oppressed. They want to get rid of trans writes there's.
A real need.
It feels like far right, far far right people is who I'm talking about, Not people who are liberal voters, center right, you know, but far right people come into, for example, my comments and say the most horrific things.
I'll reply with saying this is disgusting, and I'll get told that I'm fueling the war between the two sides, or that I'm making the divide greater, when the reality is there is often it's often provocation from people who are trolling on the internet and who are harassing people online, and they believe that their.
View is as equal as someone else's.
I don't believe that someone who was transphobic or someone who thinks at First Nations people don't deserve equal rights. I don't think their view is equal to the view of someone that does believe people deserve equal rights.
I don't believe it's someone.
I don't think that that is a crazy thing for me to feel, particularly when it comes to Maga. In the I think there's much more of a partisan divide. I think Australia because of our preferential voting, I think and I hope, and even from my point of view, I think everyone that is still supporting Trump is genuinely I think they are a deeply bad person. I think it is at this point not acceptable. I think people who are supporting Dutton are not that way.
I don't think that.
I think that they have regular ways of voting. They may have their own self as interest. I don't agree with some of the things, a lot of the Liberal Party policies, but there are some policies that I was like, yeah, sure, Like they're increasing the mental health medicare sure. There were some policies that I was like, yeah, sure, that's fine.
It isn't as extreme in Australia, and I think it is because of preferential voting, because in the States they can kind of get away with going, well, you have to choose between these two, that's all you've got, and neither you're going to be on the woke left or are you going to be on a maga. In Australia, we can kind of, I mean, by definition to our preferences.
So it's kind of.
I don't think that both sides are as bad as each other, because one side is if we' talk about far right extremists, I'm not talking about people like I said that a CenTra center right or you know, things like that in Australia. But I think at this point people that are Maga or maga esque in their thinking. At this stage, they're supporting mass deportations of US citizens, they are anti the constitution, they I have elected a
convicted felon. It's I think it's very different. And the hate quote unquote, the hateful left is always reactionary to someone saying something that is genuinely dangerous. But I do think there's more middle ground and gray area in Australia than the US.
I think the US is it's not going to go well.
To be honest, if someone will was listening to this and they said, oh no, no, no, I've been completely.
Booted off Twitter.
Back in the day, which is now known as x I'm mentioning that because that became somewhere that I think really just it's.
An absolute cess pit now.
But I think there was a time going back to even those gillardeas I was talking about, where I saw a lot of people that were center left that became very disenfranchised and disillusioned with the progressive side of politics, because that was a lot of trolling and a lot of what we would now demonize as quote unquote woke.
Just for the record, I actually hate.
The phrase woke, and I hated the phrase politically correct.
I think it's just a way of silencing people. Yes, are trying to stand up for issues.
But I definitely do know that there will be a lot of people that go, no, no, no, I've been victimized by progressives. So that's why I just always think it's interesting the humanity of it. Yes, in the US, there was during the US presidential combat, which I agree with you, Aby, I think, thank god it is very different here.
Yes, but there were our peds being.
Written by people saying I went on a blind date, turned out that he was a Trump voter, and I left the blind Date, and I remember thinking, oh gosh, like, I personally don't think me as a person at this point in my life would ever feel that there's not more to a person than that.
What about for you?
Do you?
As you say, Dunne was a different character.
Yeah, Dunne was different.
I think with Trump supporters, people who support Trump, he has bragged about sexually assaulting women. If you could look past that, he is an incredibly racist, misogynistic man. He took out a whole ad in the New York Times, I believe, with the Central Park five calling for their execution five innocent black men. He refused to lease out his properties to black people in the US. So there is history of very clear racism. Sexy and we said
that all Mexicans are rapists. He's currently deporting children who are are without any safety, and there are ice frays going on and US citizens are being sent without due process to al Salvador. I think that is I don't think that's a safe person to be around. I would not want to be around someone that supports a felon proven to be liable for rape, brags about sexual assault. I don't that's not someone that I think is safe for women to be around. I don't think women should
date Trump supporters. I think it's or I don't think you can have or people that support Andrew Tape, people that support uh I mean Jordan.
Peterson, I mean yeah, Jordan Peterson.
At this stage, I think these far right people people are actively dangerous to women, and I don't think that anyone should be dating someone who's a misogynists. I don't think you should be if they're a woman. It's like you wouldn't ask a trans person data transphobe. You wouldn't ask a gay person to date a homophobe. You wouldn't ask a person of color data racist. So why are we okay with women dating misogynists. It's not okay. It's very dangerous in fact, So I would definitely navidate someone
who even was a political personally. I think that's a huge privilege to be a political But if you're a Trump supporter, you're either incredibly uneducated or you're a bad person.
That's my personal opinion. I don't think it's okay.
In terms of Dutton, though, I think a lot of like I said, a lot of Australians vote the way their parents vote, and with mandatory voting. There are a lot of people in Australia and mistiffers from the US as well. People vote passionately. In the US, we vote obligatory, which I think is wonderful. I think it's good that we're forced to be involved in this. In terms of Dutton supporters, it's a similar thing, but.
Not as extreme.
I think that everyone should date whoever they want to, and political voting is an indication of moral values, and I think that if you differ on certain policies. I mean, someone could say I'm going to vote for Dutton because I think that's super policy, taking super out as good, but I don't believe anything else. I'd say, Okay, so you don't understand that policy or how that could impact housing prices, and you're super in the future, that's workable, you know what I mean.
But I yeah, I think it's.
Completely reasonable to not want to date someone who is politically dangerous to you.
I am conscious of times. So there's so many other things I.
Wanted to ask you about.
It's right, there are just so many other political questions I wanted to ask, But I did want to also move on to something else that's made news recently with yourself,
which is actually just with Clement time forward. Oh yes, the writer who recently went after you on her newsletter, I think and said, this is why we have Australian influences like Abby Chatfield profiting from the performance of being politically engaged and presenting herself as a voice of feminist and political authority while railing against anyone who demands more
from her than shallow aphorisms and platforming genocide supporters. Unquote, you responded on TikTok, I don't really need to rehash what you said, you well, because you will obviously give me a more updated version.
Now.
With all of those headlines and the way that's something like that, there's so much hate around it from a public point of view, what's a light for you being in the middle of a story like that.
Yeah, I mean I feel like I'm in the middle of stories like that all the time, so it's kind of, unfortunately my norm, but it's never enjoyable or pleasant. The reason why I felt the reason why I started talking about what Clement tin have been saying was kind of by accident.
I was talking about something.
Else in general, the way that there is this expectation of if you are speaking about one topic, for example, the election or something political, then it seems to make people have this I don't want to say in fighting because that feels like again, like a right wing It's kind of like the way that the quote unquote woke thing where you go that feels like a catchup that isn't really right. But there's this idea that if you
aren't doing everything, then you're performing. If you aren't, if you aren't all day, every day talking about every single topic there's possible, then you're performative. And that then discourages people from speaking about political issues. And people can say that isn't true. I know influencers, I know musicians, I know actors.
I'm sure you do as well.
People are too scared to speak about things even as basic as climate change because there will be people that are saying that it isn't good enough, and they'll go through with the fine tooth com and find all the reasons why you're performative. And there seems to be more focus on finding if someone is performative verse focusing on people that aren't doing anything at all, aren't speaking at all, or are being outright dangerous and the reason why the
Clementines Clementines comments were so distressing to me. It wasn't that she had the opinion that I shouldn't have had Anthony Apaneese in the podcast. I understand that opinion. The reason I had him on the podcast, like I was saying before, was to give my audience access to his policies.
I asked the questions.
I had an hour with the Prime Minister to cover every single election topic, and I am very proud of how I did that podcast. People have demanded that I apologize for it. I am proud of how I did the podcast. I think the podcast did what I wanted to do, and that was convert people who either didn't vote at all, who said I'll just cop the fine, people who voted liberal, or people who were so a political they would just go I guess I like the look of this person's poster.
Whatever.
The point was to engage you more politically, not for me to debate the Prime Minister.
But I understand the criticisms. I totally hear it. I get it.
But my issue isn't the criticisms. And I think this happens a little bit, not too often, but what Clementine was doing was It's ironic the way that she is assuming malicious intent from an outspoken woman in media. I find it very ironic that she's also believing these headlines that I'm making myself a feminist voice, I'm making myself a political I'm just speaking about my opinions.
He is my true opinions. I don't know anyone that would.
Voluntarily get trolled violently all day, every day for a fucking Instagram post.
I could do.
The most listened to podcast I've ever done was an interview with an ex Loveland contestant, and then it comes to maths Freecaps.
I could do that so easily every week.
I could do Love Island, Married at First Sight Batch, I could do all of them all year long, and I'd be I own more money than I am now. But the reality is my podcast is entirely and you get this with ADHD. I can't speak about things unless unless I'm obsessed, or I'm interested, or there's something there
that I want to talk about. So my issue wasn't her critique on the podcast with Anthony ALBERNIZI many people had the same critique, and I was okay with that, but it's when it comes to demanding that I apologize with something that I had a reason for doing that podcast, but also when it comes to her lying about me. That was when I was really frustrated because I didn't realize what she'd been saying, and it wasn't just a newsletter, it was her sub stack, her newsletter, Instagram stories also
about Hannah Ferguson as well. She'd called me an idiotic narcissist. She said that I didn't prep my own podcast. She'd said that I parrot uncredited sound bites or something similar, essentially saying that I'm a complete fraud.
I don't have any thoughts of my own.
I'm a deeply basic thinker and a very smart self promoter. All these things that were attacking my character, which I am not okay with. You can take my work all you like, but I'm not sure why as a prominent feminist voice currently, you're deciding to spend to include me in newsletters, substacks, all these things, because I didn't do my activism exactly the way that you would like me to.
The critique is fine, the personal attacks are not, and the personal attacks in themselves calling me a narcissist repeatedly call me, giving me a personality diagnosis, saying that I change my personality every week.
It's just different podcast topics.
But okay, it kind of instills this idea of like a hysterical, outspoken woman in me. Yeah, and that I do too many things again, and it's very ironic, this whole thing. And there are things that Clementine has done that I don't agree with it all, but I haven't said anything about it, and I won't say anything about it in depth because I don't have any interest in discrediting a woman who most likely experiences.
And has experience for longer than me.
The same trolling that I get from right wing weirdos, because all you're doing is giving them them more fuel in order to troll me people who have genuine critiques, is not trolling. But the reality is he got on the left and the right control and this idea that because I'm not doing things perfectly, that I'm an idiotic nasist, I don't know anything, I'm brain dead, I'm a deeply
basic thinker. All these they're just insults. It's not actually critiquing my work, and it's really it was really hurtful because then after that the right wing comments come in, saying nothing better than a cat fight, climbat clement time two feminist fighting. See, you can't even agree with each other. And that's why I hadn't spoken about her ever, and the things that she's done that I don't agree with, and even to this day, she's done things since and I've seen that I've gone.
People have asked me to comment on that. I'm not commenting on it.
I don't want to comment about her work. She can comment about mine, but I certainly would never comment about her having a personality disorder or anything like that. And I think that it's just, yeah, deeply ironic that she I also think there's a space in feminism for people to have quote unquote basic thoughts, because, as we were talking about before, to get people in, you can't start with.
The finals of agenda studies.
Course, there are people who don't even know what the patriarchy is women or people don't even know what domestic labor is, basic basic things, and that isn't their fault. It's because society isn't teachers. So personally, if she thinks that my thoughts are based, that's okay, but I'm not sure why there's so much anger and vitriol behind a basic thought. I see influences all the time that are fashion influencers or they do other things, and they have
basic takes on feminism, but they're correct. I'll do a repost. I go, reshare, I'm not angry at them for having a quote unquote basic thought. I go, how amazing. Now we have the women who are engaged in this fashion influences post understanding that financial independence is important, for example, or that our coercive control exists, or.
The basics of DV. That makes me happy.
The more people that are involved in this conversation makes me happy if they aren't saying things that are incorrect or damaging. And while Clementine would say that me having Anthony Abernese in the podcast is damaging, there are two different goals that we have. I was trying to bring in more people to understand to keep Dutton out, and I don't agree with Anthony Auberneze's stance on Gaza or
the labor Hardi stance on Gaza at all. Peter Dutton's stence was much worse, and I just wanted to keep Peter Dutton out for a myriad of reasons, and I think it's interesting to other than that it's just attacking my personality. But everyone then hears those things and they assume malice. Even in the language it is used around me by some people who believe that I'm a nassist on the left and say that I'm performative. Everything that I do is over analyzed. Even those stories that I
posted about Clementine. It was like, there was one comment that I saw on someone's post going the way she victimized herself and then didn't add the next day proves that she's performative. That doesn't prove anything. That proves that I had a contractual obligation. And these are the same people that would have an issue with influences quotquot not working.
I have work to do. I have to do work.
I can't pause that work because I'm feeling incredibly depressed, having a PTSD trigger. I have to post the thing. I have to do it. It's also scheduled already, so I'm not gonna unschedule it. But even the wording of like she victimizes herself, rather than saying she's upset about something, it's this assumption again, and it comes to the far left, and I'm honestly file lift a bit much. It comes from a certain part of left. It isn't even on
the spectrum. It certain people online that I want to find evidence that I'm an awful, awful person, and I am really beyond sick of it. It feels like because I am, I do get this media attention that I'm punished for it by all sides, and everyone says, see, you're not perfect, and I go, I never said that I was. So I'm just posting what I'm interested in or what I care about, and I will apologize for
things if I feel that I need to. But having Anthony Alberanezi on the podcast, I know personally changed thousands of votes. I got fat thousands of dms from people somewhat my friend's dad, who's a truck driver in Queensland who's voted Liberal and One Nation his whole life, he voted for the Labor Party and in my opinion, voting for the Labor Party in this election was preferred over the Liberal Party in my opinion and also in the
opinion of left wing politics. I don't think that I have the power to change the liberal voter to vote Greens or Victorian Socialists. I wish that I did, but I also interviewed a Victorian Socialists. I also interviewed someone from the Greens. And the strategy that I had was to go from labor to Greens to socialists, to ease the minto the water like frogs. And I just felt that it was important to this election. Talk to Anthony alberneasy.
But it is hurtful coming from a prominent feminist because then it turns into headlines. I saw a headline on Facebook that was like feminist cat fight, and it's like very demeaning. And that isn't comn Time's fault, but it is something that she should have considered and that I have considered when I haven't caught he out. The things that I would say are deeply damaging, but I'm not going to go into them.
Last time we spoke, we spoke about your relationship with Adam Hyde, your partner.
You've been together for a while now.
When we spoke last year, was saying you felt a lot more optimistic about it than you had normally in a relationship. Sounds like good reason for that, because you're still together coming up to thirty. Love to ask you about going into thirties. Very old fashioned question here, but you will no doubt get it. Are you starting to think differently about relationships? So people starting to say, when are.
You going to put a ring on it?
Abby and Adam, Well, my friends are not really. My first friend got married a couple of weeks ago.
My friends are all in their mid thirties, normalmen, So my friends aren't really adhering to that kind of societal norm.
So not really. And I have a single mother, so my mum isn't really doing it.
Mum is doing the God my friend Sue's got a grandchild, isn't that lovely? She's doing subtle quote unquote subtle hints. But I think that I like, I mean, I think that I've always been like, if I get married, great, if I have kids great, whatever, we'll see what happens. And I'm still kind of in that. But if I was gonna marry have kids with anyone, it would be Adam.
He's just been I mean, yeah, it's like a year and a half now, a year and a bit, I don't know, and he moved in recently, and it's all just been so great, and it's really quite jarring in a little ways seeing what a healthy relationship is like from the inside, Like it's quite makes me go WHOA.
So I guess I'm thinking of relationships differently.
In that I see this relationship from the inside and I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have ever been with any of those losers before, Like that was a big mistake on my behalf. So uh, yeah, it's it's been. It's been great. I said to Adam, and I said, I'm TikTok. I think I was saying that, you know, I had an epiphany about our relationship and about relationships in general.
And I've realized the more that I'm with Adam, the.
Less that I feel like I need to be with him, But it's more that I want to be with him more.
I want to more.
But that's something I'd never had in a relationship, And in that from that, I know that I mean, hopefully Adam night to get the fit ever touch would but
if we weren't together. This relationship has changed my outlook on relationships in that I understand that I should only be in a relationship if it's genuinely benefiting me in more than one aspect of my life because the amount of work I've been able to do and the amount of you know, friendships I've been able to dive deeper into, and the amount of more time I have having a happy relationship first, having this thing that drains you when
you're talking about it and thinking about and you're anxious and it's awful. It's like, I either need to be alone or be with Adam. It was kind of my two options at this point in a good way. In a oh A romantic relationship isn't necessary. It is a wonderful odd on, but my value and my actual life benefits more when I'm not worrying about the toxic, shitty relationships. So the options are a perfect one, none at all, and Adam and I are wonderful.
So that's how it's changed. I love that for you.
Abby. You mentioned your mom there.
Yeah, there's been rumors she might be popping up on the Golden Bachelor.
Don't do that to me, but I mean, I'm okay.
I don't think Abby's going to answer that, but I'm just saying, I mean, we've saw what you, being runner up on The Bachelor six years ago has done for the Australian media.
It's never been the same since.
Oh god, love to see that happen again with the next generation.
Oh my god, yeah, time will tell. Don't make me do that.
But I guess that's kind of an answer, isn't it. But I work for Warner Brothers, so I'm not going to say anything.
Abby.
Happy birthday, all the best for your thirtieth.
I will look forward to seeing you again, mama. And we'll do this again in.
A year, will we in a year one? And I turn one hundred and thirty one.
And you can hear more.
From the fabulous Abby Chatfield on It's a Lot wherever you get your podcasts.
Thank you for joining us today.
You can also watch this episode by following the link in our show notes, and make sure you're following something to talk about, because we'll be back with another exclusive guest next week.