Ever feel like you found your home planet?

Hello, I'm Isabelle. She her. Hers. And I'm David. He him his. And we're two therapists with ADHD who sit down to have some chats about ADHD. We can't promise we'll stay on topic or be professional or even remotely mature, but we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way. This is not a therapy session. This is something Shiny! I love it. Do you like it? That's amazing. And can this just be the

intro? You saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is? Yeah, that could be our first intro. So without further ado, welcome to Something Shiny. I'm David. In this episode, David and I debrief what it was like to attend the Young Leaders Organizing Institute of Eye to Eye. What does that all mean? First off, check out the show notes. for all the good links and for more info. But in a nutshell, you maybe remember David

mentioning this organization on and off. It is a deep part of his origin story. so big recommend going back to his, origin story episode. But in a nutshell, Eye to Eye is a national organization. It's been around 20 plus years, and its mission is to improve the lives of neurodiverse young people. And it engages neurodiverse young people and their allies, literally forming a movement to make a more equitable and inclusive society. And the oi. As it's dubbed

the Organizing Institute. it brings together these student leaders. From all of Idai's programs so that. They can learn, train, connect, and get ramped up for the new school year. This is the first in what we're so excited to share, a big series. Of incredible, recordings that all kind. Of connect somehow to this conference and our experience with neurodivergent culture. So excited to share this episode with

you and stay tuned for more. And of course, before we go there, well, we'll hit up some super fun tangents. That's how we roll. That's how we roll. We got to be under sometimes, so, full disclosure, I have been on my Adderall now, my extended release Adderall, for, like, a month or two, and it's, like,

noticeable. And then my, prescriber because I would kind of crash at the end of the day, and I felt like I was really the two times I most needed are mornings and then, like, bedtime, essentially, where there's lots of moving parts and transitions or, like, pickup from school on. But I also do benefit from it at work. I benefit from it everywhere. It's pretty obvious now that I've been on it a while how much I

benefit from it. So I just started taking, the extended release, and then I do a second immediate release dose, like, midday. A booster. A booster. And it's so cool. And I totally forgot it today just because life happened, right? Because we're adjusting to, our kid being in kindergarten and pickups are different. Timing of everything is different. But our other kid is not starting their school yet. It's a whole thing. It feels like the puberty of our schedule time

right now. This is puberty. We're going through schedule puberty. And I just want the discomfort to be done with. And I want the beautiful butterfly of us on the other side of knowing our schedule to be done. But that would happen till the end of the month. But anyway, I say all this to say I realized two things. One is that I am extremely sensitive to textures that I didn't even realize that on Adderall. I was not noticing clothing or sensations as much. Does that make any sense at all? Am I

crazy? M. It's real. This whole afternoon, I mean, it was so itchy, but I wanted to I've never felt so uncomfortable. It was like the sensation just felt amplified. It's almost as if you didn't have, an accommodation to avoid distraction and you were noticing how many physical distractions you were just kind of pushing through, which is like a total narrative for the ADHD population. Okay, cool.

Because I'm feeling it even now, right? Like, you see me and I'm like itching, and I'm uncomfortable, and I just want this temperature, and it's like I'm so distracted by my physical sensations. I'm not used to this feeling. Oh, it's so real. And I think there have to be the right variables to bring that out. It was just a few weeks ago. It was, like, ridiculously hot and stupid humid. I mean, like, 87% humidity. The moment where the real feel is, like, 20 degrees above where it actually is.

I went into kicked open the door of my house, and I was just m. I'm not wearing a shirt and. I'm not wearing pants. And I went to the bedroom and came back with basketball shorts, and that was it. And there was nothing I was not going to change for the life of me that day. And I didn't want to sit on certain fabrics because it was like it's breathing on me. I don't want something that's going to breathe back, and I don't want to feel like I have

to peel myself off it when I finish. Why can't something just have an agreement to be there and hold me, and I hold it. We leave each other, same as we found each other. Yes. Why can't there be a leave no trace policy with my thighs and my lower back as I sit in this chair? I'm just sitting on your chair. Why do you got to snap my layer of skin off? No. and then there was the other chairs that whisper

inappropriate things to everyone else. And what I mean by that is you sit down on the chair, you get up, and your butt is in that chair. All the fibers are going in the one Direction. Your butt was in it. And you would see my butt and it's like I'm used to. Now I get up and wipe the seat. As I get up, I've shaken the Etcher Sketch like no one's looking at my bum. No. Couch. You can't fool me again. You can't fool me twice. Couch. Not twice, maybe twice.

Okay, I got to ask you because we're talking about textures, we're talking about medicine. And this is an important part of my week in our lives, is that we get to sit down and talk about this. But for a while we've been talking about going out, seeing what the culture looks like in different places What the culture feels like in different ways. By culture, by the way, you mean like neurodivergent culture? Culture? Oh, yeah. Like everything we talk about on something shiny is

neurodivergent culture, if you think about it. M. It's things that we're all going to be like, oh my God, yes. I don't want to hear one person say, you won't be able to take a spell chucker with you, or all that kind of stuff. All those little things that make us all grown. Or like five more minutes. Grown like all these cultural little parts. And we went to go see this program, Eye to Eye. They have this thing called the Organizing Institute that they have once

a year. And this organizing Institute they use to train their mentors that are going to go out and work with kids throughout the year. Right? HM. But they set up this program for these mentors with all the accommodations you could need, And no corrective behavior. And so you and I went to this conference I've been a number of times before, right? Yes. What was it like for you to come to?

Oh my gosh. Okay, so first off, just to elaborate a little more because I'm imagining even just to help remind myself. So the part we, or at least I was able to be connected to was the part that then invited former mentors and allies and everyone kind of connected to the mission of the organization. Right. Like coming in and, getting even extra training on top of the mentors and stuff that were doing it. And

I mean, it was just like the weirdest thing. First off, literally, this was the first thing walking and it was held in the beautiful University of Denver campus. It was so gorgeous. But it was just in this one huge building. But walking in there was a giant sign with arrows saying where to go. And then you walk in and there's another sign with arrows saying where to go. And then you take like two more steps and there's another sign with arrows telling you where to

go. And at every possible moment where you would glance in some different direction, you would find more data about where you need to go. david and I mean, I walked in. I think the first thing I said is, this is the first time I've ever been to a conference and found my way. We're supposed to go the first time. What? It just made me realize I've been to so many conferences and I never go where I'm supposed to. I continually get lost. I'm always

late. It's so confusing to me. I'm always like, why do they put the print on the doors in these tiny letters? Like, I don't know where anything is. so first off, that was huge. It just felt like someone thought of it, right? and then you walk in a room and I don't know how to explain it. It just kind of felt like everyone was already maybe not like close family, that, you know, a lot, but everyone kind of already felt like they were just like a friend in waiting or

extended family, like cousins. I didn't know I had kind of vibe. it just sort of felt like that everyone's talking in line, people are making like it was just delightful. It was delightful. And it was so moving and emotional and everything. But anyway, that's just like so first impression, delight. And then of course, just overjoyed and over the moon to see you and Robin. And then also, just also the, had they had ample food and snacks. The snacks, everybody I

cannot get over. I want to live that snack life all the time. Why don't I live that snack life all the time? Every single room, so many snacks. Sweet and savory varieties, varieties of drinks and gatorade. Like everywhere, everywhere you went, there was water. It was delightful. It was delightful. It was a moment. And I think one of the things about being in a place like this is your nervous system feels different because there are very different dances happening. For instance,

I'm used to needing to find my room. I get there kind of early. I'm never sure if I'm going to find it. I'm walking kind of quick because I want to make sure I get to the right place and get there in time. And then when I get to the room, I got to calm down, I got to breathe, I got to stop sweating, let my heart rate slow down. Like, I got to feel better because I just rushed to find this right room versus this experience here where we just walked to the place we need to be.

Where we need to be, exactly. Didn't have to get anxious of, where am I going to go? There was no nervous system spiking to try to get us there. And it's this place where we see not only like there are accommodations everywhere, this organization, I does a great job with accommodations and teaching kids to advocate. So we get to see both of

it. And I think, I don't know if you notice it. But there was no shame around this group of people to pick up a. Fidget spinner or fold spinners everywhere, draw. Or doodle or make a friendship bracelet in the middle of a conversation. These were accommodations that were built everywhere. People didn't have to sit in nothingness. which I thought was just great. Yes. No, that's exactly right. The way

you described it, that is the feeling. It's like the reason it mattered is that all the things that normally would be the thing I'm actually managing through with a ton of anxiety in my end, or, almost like forcing myself to not think about, like, legit. I think that's why I pointed those things out, right? Because you're so right. My heart rate, usually at a conference is extremely elevated. I am super anxious. I am absolutely ahead of time. And then still somehow running late.

I'm getting into the room and I'm sitting down, and it's like halfway through the lecture or the presentation that my body is relatively calm. But as soon as I'm in the room, all I want is a snack. And the whole time I'm like, can I get the bar, the energy bar out of my bag? No, it's going to make noise. I can't make noise. I can't make noise. I can't make noise. And then that's just going through my head for the first 15 minutes. And then I'm desperately

opening the tiny teeny little notebook they give you. And I'm like, I don't think I can draw, but I really want to. The whole thing is just constant hyper vigilance around how I am presenting. I think it's like constant masking. And you're so right. This was like instant unmasking, because I immediately felt like I didn't have to stop and get anxious about asking someone about where to go. I felt like someone was like, you got this? And I'm like, yeah, I do

got this. Thanks for all the extra giant lettered signs and big arrows. Yes. and then, yeah, with the snacks, it was almost like permission is what it felt like with the fidgets everywhere. And there were clean Xboxes everywhere too, because, gosh, that always happens to me. I always need to blow my nose or cough or whatever. All the body needs that would constantly be on my mind is like, oh, I can't reveal them. It just was permission. Just seeing it there, just seeing it out

inside. Note all the snacks. The thing I didn't say all the snacks were in crinkly packaging. Did you notice this? And I loved it. And I was like, this is permission. This is also not like the thing you often see at a conference where it's like, take this muffin, this crumbly muffin, and just, like, silently choke it down. Well, I think it's incredible when the task isn't being quiet. Exactly. When the task is participation. Yes. That is encouraged by the organization. That's an

incredible thing to feel. And that difference is just so amazing. it makes me, in this very distilled way, think about culture. The culture that we really have that is a part of being neurodivergent, and that any person getting an accommodation in a school, any person having to talk to excuse why they're late, any person not wanting to spell in front of other people. People that don't want to play Scrabble. I heart you. I get it.

This is a cultural piece. And I think when we can see these feelings as part of our culture but not part of our deficiencies, all of a sudden we can feel the difference when they're attended to. Yeah. We can feel like we belong in a place or it feels safer all of a sudden. And not that we need to have safe spaces everywhere because it's impossible, but oh my God, all of a sudden, not having to fight for every moment to pay attention gives me a lot more energy in a lot of other places.

Exactly. Yes. Okay. So my feeling about it was I guess because it felt like it was so much was thought of and taken care of on that front right. On that kind of both sensory and I don't know the words for it, but it just felt like exactly what you're saying. the thing I want to name is, for me, it was an exceptional and I got so emotional, and I still will get emotional as I think about it. It was such an exceptional experience. I genuinely have never felt anything like it.

I really haven't. And the places where I have felt it have been places where I have been authorized or maybe even tasked with creating the environment. So it's not that I deprive myself of those things when I have authority or ability to do that. I think about all the therapy offices I've ever been a part of or had a chance to make a playroom for or decorate my own office. That is what my office would feel like. I would have snacks always out. I would have or, places. It was

against policy. I'd find a way. I'd always have tea. There's just like a constant way that I think it's something that I guess the weird feeling for me. And I imagine this is not dissimilar to I don't see like, I'm a child of immigrants and I sometimes feel this it's like a weird comparison. But I feel this way sometimes when I go visit Poland where my parents are from. But it's also not where I grew up, it's where all my other

family grew up. But, the feeling I get when I go there is this, like it's this odd familiarity and I don't have to explain certain things or I feel just a certain sense of ease that I don't know I'm missing when I'm not in that vibe. Right. Because I was raised primarily around other Polish immigrant families. Right. So something about that feels a lot like home. And then also just hearing that language spoken. There's a lot

to it, but that's sort of what it felt like. But again, I only go there every couple of years, if not every half a decade, right? So it's also something I've gotten so used to at having to hold within myself and never really share. And I think that's the thing that makes me so emotional is I don't know that I've ever had that feeling synced up to a room of other people having the feeling at the same time, right? Does that make sense? I'd visit my family

and I'd be like, well, I'm the one having that feeling. But they're all living here. They don't feel it. But this was me in a room where I'm simultaneously resonating off of all the other humans, also going, I think I just found my home planet a little bit. And then I just felt moved. I don't remember a time, literally since maybe the early postpartum days where I was so like, the tears, even as I say it, are just like my body just felt so big. It felt all the feels. It felt warm and

fuzzy and sad and mad. And all the feelings that come, I think, from being like, where has this been? It's all of it, right? It's like, Where has this been? I needed this. And then on the other hand, it's like, I'm so happy it's here. And on the other hand, oh, no, it's going to be over soon. And all of it that surprised me. I don't know that I expected that at all, but I've talked a lot. Does that make sense?

It's this part around I mean, if I get really technical, I think this is the part around intersectionality. I think this is a part of knowing all of a sudden, you're part of a group. You're not alone. You're part of a group that this world wasn't built for. and we have to do it our way. And when you see hundreds of other people doing it a little bit differently and not asking permission and not getting in trouble exactly. Not making

problems. It wasn't like everyone go draw a tree in the corner and one person's, like, playing with fingerprints, like just making smiley faces. No, people were doing the trees. People were attending to the task with incredible detail. and it was an honor to watch these young adults forge a world that a lot of people are going to live in. Yeah. Oh, I miss it. Ah, does this happen to you? So now can I flip the question to you, David? Like, having done this, so many, like, M,

what was your vibe? Do you remember what it felt like the first time you felt it? And then, what do you feel? What happens to you after you leave too, because that feels like a whole thing. This is so hard. This is so hard. I think I can answer so many parts of it. I think the first time I went was, oh my gosh, 15, 1617 years ago, a while ago, a few years back. But it was a while ago. And, it was the first time in my life someone had made my learning style feel valuable.

And I was in a grad school class and I was like, and I'm being the bombastic ADHD dude. And I'm like, blah, blah, blah. I'm sure I talked about ADHD or something, right? And then after class, one of my classmates was like, hey, the hurried whisper. And I was like, yeah, you were talking about ADHD and stuff. Do you have any interest in starting a program around here that works with high schools or college students

with learning disabilities? And they match them up with middle school students with learning disabilities and they do art projects together and feel good? And I was like, this exists. I'd love to be part of it. HM? And she goes, oh, you're just going to have to talk to this guy, David Flink. He'll give you an interview. Mhm? And I was like, oh, I got an interview. And then I'm doing my whole, like, I'm going to kill this interview. What do I

do? How do I get ready for this interview? All right, I'm going to talk about all these things that I studied or what I'm going to do the interview. I won't go through it like verbatim just because that's a private, really important moment that I got with David Flink. And it was important, but it was very quickly when I learned speaking about my learning differences, my neurodivergence, that's what he was interested in and not in

an exploitive way. Yeah, and I've been used to that, like, oh, you got a learning difference over there. Come over here, we're going to help you. Quotient? I don't know. I don't know why my voice went. You know what you sounded? You sounded like a stage manager from like, Newsies or something. Like, we're going to exploit the kids and make them do an act. I don't know. We're going to make them do things. Yes.

But it felt really holding. And it was this conversation where it's like, well, I'd love to have you be a mentor. And we have this thing, come on out to Brown University and we'll put you through this training. We'll teach you how to be a mentor. And I was like, Sounds great. And fast forward life to the summer in between one grad year to the next grad year when I'm going to this

oi, I land. There's like 27 people at this time sitting like crisscross applesauce in a half moon circle around an easel. And David and Marcus are standing front easel with markers, like dreamboarding stuff. And we're just shouting out ideas, and they're trying to write the ideas on the board. And while this is happening, Grady, if you hear this, please know I miss your face and you've helped my life. Thank you, Grady. Grady is sitting there with this little racquetball and he's bouncing it.

There's this rhythm to the way he's hitting, like and I just remember going like, man, he's bouncing a ball. And I remember thinking, like, you're not supposed to bounce a ball. He's going to get in trouble. And then I looked around and no one cared. and then all of a sudden. I was like, I want to bounce a ball. And then I was like, hey, Grady, do you have another ball? And he went, no, but here. And passed it right to me. And I went, oh, back to him. And then

we're playing catch with this racquetball. And then we're playing catch, like, bounce it off the wall to the other person. Bounce it off the wall to the other person, then back to each other. And then how many bounces can you have before it hits the other person without it going flat? how little bounces can you get? So the whole time we're in this presentation, we are playing with these racquetballs

At the same time we're playing with these racquetballs. Obviously distracted, marcus is trying to write the word benign on the easel M and stops and goes, does anyone know how to spell benign? And that question right when someone goes, does anyone know how to spell? Like, I have learned to become as small as humanly possible in that moment because I don't want to be the one that says, like, no, I don't know how to spell it. We need to find someone else. Because

that's the answer. Impermanent, right? Like, I don't know how to spell that thing. Well, he's like, you didn't know how to spell benign? And the room was like crickets people blinking. And they're like, no. And everyone's like, no, I don't know how to spell benign. And he went, well, all right then. And just wrote the letter B and the number nine. And we kept going, that's so amazing. I'm like, this makes sense to me. No problem. And then it hits me. He's asking a

question. Grady's answering, like, I don't know how to spell, but I'm answering it's not that we're not paying attention because we're bouncing the ball. All of a sudden, I didn't feel like I was in trouble or trying to hide in a classroom setting for the first time. even if I was on task in school, I would be like, there's something that I'm unaware of that I should have been doing that someone's going to call my attention to. Exactly.

I'm just about to be caught. I'm about to be caught doing the thing I'm not supposed to be doing I didn't even know I wasn't supposed to be doing. So in this oi. I learned so much. So much. And I took so much from that experience and poured it into the counseling studying that I was doing to be therapist. Because, Marcus and David were like, ten years ahead of the movement when I first met them. They are still ten years ahead of the movement in terms of what they're actually

doing. And they would deny that. They're like, no. And we listen to the kids, and the kids help direct us, and the young adults help direct us. And they're right, and they do, but they are right. And so fast forward, I get super involved. I start traveling around, giving talks about ADHD and how to come together and neurodivergence and all this stuff. And then a short while ago, one of the closest people in my life, my brother,

died. And his death was nothing short of horrific and it required a lot of attention. And so the moment I found out he was dying, I remember talking with Jennifer Cain, shortly after this, but I remember talking with people, saying, I'm done, I'm not going anywhere. I saw myself wanting to visit my brother every couple of weeks, every three weeks. And that was going to take my whole time and everything was going to go towards that. And if they ever needed me, I didn't want to be in Brown

or Denver or San Francisco or Reno. I just wanted to be around home. And so when he was sick and when I call everyone, I actually thought I would never get to see anyone ever again. And so this trip out with you, it just reminded me what I know to be true about people, that it's important to have hope in people and people will surprise you.

And, here I go from starting with 27 people, like, sitting around have circles that now there's audiobooks being sent out to workshop tables that have fidget spinners and iPhones that they're communicating to the app so they could all share questions, but no one has to raise their hand. The levels of things that they were doing and how sophisticated they are now. Not saying they weren't sophisticated back then,

but where they are now. It kind of feels like that day where you leave your small town and you're like, bye everyone, I'll see you in a few years. And then I go have a real scoop of ice cream in a big city. I'm like, oh my God, I can't wait to tell everyone. And I go back home and everyone's grown up and home has spaceships now. It's amazing.

And so coming back and being amazed by how incredible they are, how incredible their mentors are right now, how incredible their alumni is, like, their resources, the keynote speaker, don't spoiler. but it was such an incredible experience. And for me, I knew you hadn't seen anything like this before. It's pretty obvious. No one has. Yeah, no one has.

And there's this look that I've seen so many people have in so many times that I've been to the Oi and the only way I m can't make this face authentically so I'm not going to try to make it. I'll just say the things it's like you saw a dragon for the first time, It was nice, it shrunk to the size of a pea and went into your heart. That is totally what it is. It's a happy pea heart dragon. There's a shock bit of like this can't be real life, mhm? Very much so. Very much so. Like walking just

walking around going what? Is this for real? Thank you so much for listening. If you ever have that thought where you think, hey, I'm nothing. Stop. Remember you're something something's shiny that's right.

Just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe rate and review anywhere you listen to podcasts, we're on Instagram Something Shiny podcast and if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we can think of and more is on our website@somethingshinypodcast.com and it's all free. Thank you so much for listening and. We'Ll see you in two weeks.