S10 E3: Ex-Patriota

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This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to suicide. Please take care while listening.

Escuché un grito pidiendo auxilio, pidiendo ayuda de una mujer. Two or three weeks ago from the t she was disappeared. I'm working probably at ten or eleven in the morning and I was listening to her asking for help. well a woman I'll listen asking for help. She was screaming for help. Saying hel just that's it. so I'm going out and and I know Obviously what's that that house? So I talk with the security guy from the condominium and ask him, hey man, somebody's screaming for help.

Ask him for help. So uh he told me okay I don't I I I know where is it. So we came that house because and he told me man Every time it's the same. They're fighting. So we went there and we don't see anything and stop. So the screaming woman was Jackie, the other voice. Her husband Sebastian. When investigated during similar loud altercations, the shouting would end, and Jackie and Sebastian would later emerge from their house as if nothing had happened.

Yeah. When you went over did you see anything? No, no. Just the scrimming. I'm David Ridgen, and this is season 10 of Someone Knows Something: The Jacqueline Ferland Smith Case, Episode 3, Ex Patriot. Yeah, like if you're trying to report a human story, the human story is like this has been really difficult on Sebastian. Cause it's like I understand our parents are trying to find. But um we're also trying to move on with our life, right?

About a year after Jackie disappeared, Sebastian drove through Playa Coco on his Vespa with a woman from Canada on the back, a new girlfriend he had met several months before. They'd just driven on the scooter together for 23 days all the way from Canada. Her name was Lorraine Franco, the same Lorraine who opened the door for me and who is now sitting next to Sebastian in his backyard. coming for my own reasons and didn't know Sebastian at all.

So you first met after Jackie disappeared. Yeah, yeah. Because I was interested in volunteer work and I was doing my own like uh six weeks of volunteering around Costa Rica and then I came to Coco to go scuba diving. Lorraine, who ran a business as a family therapist in Canada, says she first heard about Sebastian from a friend before her trip. This would have been in December 2021, four months after Jackie disappeared. So that friend had been telling me

In Canada, you should really meet my friend Sebastian, like he's such a nice guy. Obviously, you tell me about the big s sad story. Lorraine came to Costa Rica on a wildlife conservation volunteer trip Starting on January 14, 2022. Before she returned home to Canada, she would meet Sebastian in person in Playa del Coco, probably sometime in early February 2022. And when I didn't

I did meet Sebastian, I thought he was really nice. I left and went back to Canada and then we just became friends, you know, and we just started talking on the phone because I was now back in Canada and um He was still in Costa Rica but then as I got started to talk to Sebastian and date him, it was a lot of us talking on the phone about everything. Lorraine says she kept communicating with Sebastian by phone and they eventually became a couple, meeting in person in Canada.

And then some plans emerged. Like obviously Sebastian's like massively into bikes, and he's massively into adventures and fun stuff like that. He had this dream to drive his Vespa that he bought in Canada one day to Costa Rica. And I'm like, yeah, that would be so cool. I never dated anybody who did motorcycles or rode motorcycles and I have zero On a motorcycle, but I'm an adventurous person. We're a new couple, and so let's do this fun adventure.

And they did, driving on Sebastian's scooter from Canada to Costa Rica, a trip that would ultimately lead to both getting matching Vespa tattoos. Their dramatic arrival in town drew attention, and some of the online community got buzzing about it, and about a magazine article that came out around the same time. one of Sebastian's good friends from Quebec, like, loves motorcycles too and is friends with, um, a guy who writes for all these motorcycle magazines.

So he got wind of our story of us riding a Vespa from Canada to Costa Rica, asks if he can interview us. We're like, sure. At this point in our lives we're just wanting to move on with our lives. We don't want to be known as Lilorraine and Sebastian, the one the guy who's like, you know, the possible murderer. The article makes no mention of Sebastian's recent past and there's nothing about Jackie.

Curiously, the whole thing is written as if Sebastian has never been to Costa Rica before and And Sebastian is referred to as having been batch it for nearly five years before finding Lorraine and using an underpowered street scooter to brave the wilds of Central America with her. It's Lorraine who provides most of the explanation for this.

Like, obviously we're doing our best to just go through our life and just be Lorene Sebastian, like the fun couple who are just nice people. We don't wanna have that legacy following us everywhere we go. So we didn't tell that guy any of that stuff. So we get interview by that guy on the phone and we don't really mention our past. You know, so when he's writing up the story

He's the one that put in there about Sebastian being a bachelor, right? We didn't tell him that he had been single'cause he was widowed or'cause his wife was went missing. Like that's like horrible. Has nothing to do with the bike story. And so we just told him our side of the story. And I read the story after it published. And I went, oh shit. And I said, you gotta call that guy and ask him to correct that line. her family, I'd read that story and want to throw up.

and want to strangle you because it makes you come off as this gallivanting bachelor. Who's never been to Costa Rica before. It sound makes it sound like he's never been here before too. It just made him sound like, oh he's like he's had his bachelor days. And meanwhile I was like, yeah, that's not exactly Sebastian. The Bashel's the guy who was a loving, dedicated, devoted husband of twelve years.

who lost his wife and she was missing and uh he wasn't like this swinging bachelor. That's not why he was single. He was single because he was in my mind, like is more widowed. So like Lorraine and Sebastian call the author and ask him to change the article, and it is modified, revising out the Bachelor reference, but still with no mention of Jackie as far as I can see.

The author has declined to be interviewed. I'd like to know why he wrote the article that way. I wonder too what's been going on under this roof since Lorraine arrived. Does Lorraine know anything about Jackie or her disappearance? And um I didn't really need to know much of the story other than I know my instincts and my intuition and I also understand mental health.

So it is not something that many couples would even stay together for. It's a hard story because I mean my family found out that I was dating Sebastian and like we have nothing to hide. But then my aunts and uncles go and just start like googling his name and then find out all the stories about him. And then they basically just start. freaking out that I'm dating this serial killer.

And oh my god, do you know who you're dating? So then I had to then do damage control and try to like help them feel safe and comfortable. Her mum used to work at uh Lorraine lives here with Sebastian and he's He's sitting next to her now. The honest way she discusses these very personal details are striking. And Sebastian doesn't seem to react in the negative, so I think he's heard this before.

I'm okay with that because I feel like I'm part of this story as much as like we all have a story that just leads somewhere and I just now this is where I am and I'm meant to be here and he's meant to be here and we're meant to be here. And I'm very like comfortable with that knowledge. You know, Alex Sabash is a wonderful human, right? And he's everything that you would expect. Like he is extremely loyal, he's extremely dedicated.

everything about his history, Jackie was it makes sense. And he has not given his side of the story, and I keep saying like, you have every right to defend yourself because you are the person that in the story that should be commended, not the one who's thrown under the bus because of the years that you took care of her. Like this wouldn't be inconsistent with

the theory of you being the killer when actually it would have been way easier for you just to have left her like for so long. You know, this was not the straw that broke the camel's back. He endured way more like bruises. I am drawn to Lorraine's open thoughtfulness and sense of kindness, and I believe that she believes everything she's saying.

Colleen and Gordon told me that Sebastian had been speaking to a counselor in Toronto before Jackie disappeared, but both Sebastian and Lorraine assure me that she is not that counselor. Jackie's parents also told me that Jackie was upset that Sebastian was allegedly speaking to an ex-girlfriend on the phone as well, and Jackie's perfect girlfriend text on the topic likely refers to this. But I don't think Lorraine is that person either.

I do wonder about Lorraine's comment regarding the straw that broke the camel's back, but set this aside for now and turn my attention back to Sebastian to find out more about the aftermath of Jackie's disappearance.

So did police ever come to you, the CR police ever come to you and say that they thought that y you know, you looked suspicious. Did they get you in a room and try to grill you and go through questions? Uh they interviewed me, yeah, for sure.'Cause they came with dogs obviously. When I reported the Everything, okay, obviously. Uh that same night they send uh that's uh called uh oh OEOTA, like the OIJ.

So those guys came and investigated and uh searched the whole house from top to bottom, searched the car, the lot, uh around the house, the neighbors lot. And then they interviewed me for hours. Yeah. And then um they came more than once actually because uh every time they were thinking about something they would come with more questions, right, and stuff like that. So you have a surveillance camera here and it's

outside the house? I do, but those are cheap stuff from uh Costco. So uh they don't really work well. Uh they pretty much okay you seen the edge, right? So There's always something that moves. So you get like thousands of pictures of uh the edge, the trees, a bird, a spider. And then you walk in front and it doesn't see you. And uh Gordon and Carl.

Actually like said like that like I did not uh share the stuff okay. I don't have the password for that, okay, because that was like Jackie who had that okay but uh there's like like an investigation. Who came and got like the box and uh they checked the thing. They say that I'm hiding stuff? No, I'm not. Those guys came and got the box. I still don't have the box back. So like they check what was in there.

Okay, regardless of what they see, like they came back to me and they told me that uh whoever that was that there was nothing of interest on the camera. They said they were able to see what was on the camera? Yeah, but the cameras are outside, right? So like what they saw is uh most likely uh like going out with a bag like I said exactly at that time. I'm trying to connect with the Costa Rican authorities and will hopefully be able to confirm what I'm hearing here.

Obviously, they're not gonna say that yes I've been investigated, yes they came here with dogs, they smell everything, and just for the recorder, I'm just gonna say it but When you find something in ancient Egypt that's like six thousand years old, they know if there was blood somewhere. Like they can smell it with like a dog. Dogs are that good.

Um they even dug I used to have a beautiful garden there, which is like you said, it's wild now because they dog everywhere. Cause cops obviously they see like freshly moved dirt, like which is a garden. The few documents I have seen say that the OIJ first speaks to Sebastian in person on August 19th when he officially reports Jackie missing to police. Then O.I.J. speaks to Sebastian again the next day on the 20th. This time at the house, but they do not search it.

OIJ returns again five days after Jackie disappears on August 22nd to talk to Sebastian some more and finally conduct a superficial first search of the premises. Nothing unusual seems to have been found on the twenty second. How superficial is a superficial? Search. In the absence of police, I'll need their files to even begin figuring out what was done or not.

So Sebastian posted on chit chat that Jacqueline was missing and I reached out to him seeing if there was anything that I could do to help. And right away I organized to search like with people from our community. There were searches across the area undertaken by volunteers soon after Jackie disappeared, organized in large part by Jackie's friend Krista. We met in Coco and we had designated search areas for different groups.

groups and we sent everybody out from there and we conducted that over a couple of days and then when we I honestly thought that we would find her right away. The ground search organized by Krista started on August 27, 2021. Drones were locally used by Krista and a friend of Sebastian's, too. Nothing was found. Two days later, on August 29th, 2021, a team of search experts arrived that Krista says she called in. I contacted a guy I know, Victor, who volunteers with an organization called Open.

Open, which stands for the Organization for National Emergencies, seems to be a semi-professional or at least semi-organized search and rescue outfit. A couple days after that, the team was here on ground, so we had to find lodging and food for them and other gear to support them like machetes. We ended up getting them rubber boots because these are guys walking through the jungle and snakes are always an issue.

And you know, just general search and rescue gear. And how many days was a search conducted for Jackie after she disappeared? I believe it was a full three-week period. And that was land and sea? Yes. Did anybody come up with anything? Did they find any remnant of clothing or any item that might have belonged to Jackie or any item at all? Nothing at all.

And these guys were rappelling off cliffs. They found an old wallet that had been sitting, you know, at the bottom of this cliff for it appeared to be a number of years, but there was never a single sign of any. Any belonging of Jacqueline's. We were hoping to find her flip flops or anything. And then how was it decided to sort of wrap up the searches? Well Two weeks into the search, uh Sebastian asked to shut it down.

But I was not prepared to give up yet because there were still some areas that needed to be searched. Krista says Sebastian told her that the search was expensive, food and accommodation for searchers. but also told Krista that some crew members were trying to scam him. There were also some questions being generally raised about the experience level of the searchers,

with some talking about ghosts and others using the equivalent of divining rods to douse for Jackie. Community donations for the search dried up as time went on, with no progress. The official search lasted three weeks, and on September 19th, 2021, it ended with no sign of Jackie. And did Sebastian take part in the actual searches himself, to your knowledge? To my knowledge, no. Like he wasn't out uh searching through the bushes and stuff like that. He was, you know, uh back at the house.

Um he drove the team members to different search areas and would drop them off and so act as a as a taxi kind of. I was there everywhere all the time. I asked Sebastian about the searches. And before like the cops even like uh Uh did the search and stuff. fifteen, sixteen hours like a day, like uh

I was driving those guys around so they can search like a bigger like a perimeter around the house and uh it lasted like close to three months. Like by the end, okay, like myself, I was like, I just can't do that anymore. I'm gonna die. It's that demanding and uh it's also when you're doing that like you're always like night and day basically talking about that like it's uh it's extremely demanding and difficult right

Sebastian says he was on a boat that searched an area at sea where things collected, known as the garbage line. I ask him about some of the local freshwater lagoons and rivers, but he doesn't recall what was searched in that regard. Meanwhile, the OIJ conducts an additional search at Sebastian and Jackie's place on September 6, 2021, almost three weeks after Jackie disappears. Colleen and Gordon Smith.

three weeks later and I thought, Well what are they gonna find? Jackie lived in the house and and another odd thing was Sebastian had a mop with a pail of chlorine in the house, you know, um which I thought was a little bit odd. And then he had Colleen to clean the tower. and do some stuff and then we realize after we shouldn't have cleaned in

Without access to police or the file, I can't say whether or not cleaning the house affected any evidence, and bleach in the bathroom is pretty common. But investigatively, one would want a location to remain as it was on the night someone. Someone disappeared from it as much as possible. Three days and certainly three weeks before searches are conducted is a long time. Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com.

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Hola buenos días,¿qué tal señora? Bien, gracias a Dios¿en qué le puedo servir? Ulysses Guevara, the lead OIJ investigator on Jackie's case, told me on a call that I needed to contact his superiors to get any more information. After lots of flack, back and forth and getting nothing of value from anyone superior, SKS producer Maria Burgos and I try calling an OIJ office manager.

And Yellaserdus is more forthcoming, and, maybe not so incredibly, tells us that nothing new has been added to Jackie's case file since twenty twenty two. And then and Yella offers something else. Ivania Pizarro La Fiscal. The name of a key prosecutor, Carmen Ivania Pizarro. In Costa Rica, prosecutors oversee the criminal investigation and evaluate the evidence to look for foul play, so maybe Carmenavania can help.

Bueno, el estudiante ahorita está con un archivo en el grado penal que se llama Desestimación. Jackie's file has been dismissed and archived at the courts, Carmen says. And the upshot of that, maybe there's a chance we can get our hands on it. We ask if she has Jackie's cell phone and she says she does, but getting at that phone, or anything else, will still take a bit more doing.

I've sent a freedom of information request to the Abbotsford BC police from Jackie's hometown, whom I know did some work on the case, and there's still a lot more people to talk to here in Costa Rica. 감사합니다. Turn right on BEA151. Just heading up to the development where Jackie and Sebastian had built their house. Yesterday I talked to Sebastian and his new partner.

partner Lorraine and uh today I'm heading back to talk to the neighbors. My GPS is overheating so I've got to somehow cool this car down so that I can actually get there. Back to Playa del Coco for more active investigation. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. You want can we chat or do you want to park or something? I'm sorry to have you waiting. No, no, there's no problem at all. Uh could we talk away from the idling car?

It's gotten dark, and from what I can see, the man who has just driven up to me outside his own house looks like he has just come from a long day at work.

I'm the neighbor. I live yeah, right next to them we have uh He's another neighbor of Sebastian and Jackie's who's asked to be anonymous because he fears for his family's safety, and I'm calling him Alejandro. Alejandro moved in with his young family just a few weeks before Jackie disappeared. Unfortunately I didn't get to know Jacqueline too much. She was always really nice. She was always outside. She was always really happy. She was always working on the house, on the garden.

She would talk to the kids, she would be very empathetic. She was always smiling and she was always working really hard and Sebastian I never talked to because I only talked to to Jacqueline. was you know pretty decent like he didn't engage too much he would be like outside too you'd see how they're trying to get onto something with the house together and all that.

and that was actually pretty nice to see. And Sebastian was always behind, never talked, and with an angry face. So Alejandro doesn't know why Sebastian and Jackie were fighting or what happened to Jackie. But he does have some theories that include suspicions about Sebastian's backyard after Jackie went missing. Why am I very suspicious about behind the backyard? Because I have a lot of dogs. And the dogs, as soon as I opened the gate,

Would go to the let's say backside on the right hand side of of the like glass part of the garden. There is a place where he had like a bunch of logs and I could let my dogs go out. And my dogs would always go to the exact same place. He continued burning things on top of it, but there was something burned underneath. And you could see birds all over. until I got scared and I started going around the house with the shotgun.

What birds were you saying? What kind of vultures. Big pinkheads and they're like all the time on top of the house. On top of the house? All the time on top of the house. My kids are afraid of it. I'm afraid of it. They're always on top of the house. I have found one neighbor across the street who says vultures used to appear at their own property too, but nobody else other than Alejandro is able to say they saw vultures at Sebastian's.

The first ones that came and investigated was OIJ. OJ is the Costa Rican, let's say like FBI, the the governmental entity that should take charge of all these things. And They were all right in front of his house and when I passed I stopped.

And they were like, Okay. So We can't for sure say it was him, but he has his car hidden inside of his garage and he has blood all over the front seat of the passenger and then he is not willing to share the the surveillance videos of the house of the cameras and all that and I'm like for sure It was him, it was him.

Alejandro comes off as exaggerated to me, and his conclusions are speculative, though it's obvious that he is actually fearful and suspicious of Sebastian. After speaking to the OIJ, Alejandro says he became so concerned about Sebastian that he decided to confront him. And then next time he comes by, I go with the shotgun again. And I knock on the door. And I tell him, motherfucker, I see you close to my house, I'll fucking kill you. You went over

With your shotgun? Oh yeah. It's not legal. I don't care. Really? I don't give a shit. Taking a shotgun into any situation seems like the best way to accelerate it in the wrong direction. Sebastian says this interaction never happened, but if it did, I'm not sure I fully understand Alejandro's decision to control.

Sebastian in this way. There's also no way of knowing what he was actually told by OIJ, if anything. Krista adds even more nuance by telling me a story that offers some more potential detail about blood in the car. During the search, my husband and I got in the car to go for breakfast one morning while all the guys were out searching, and I have my little dog with me, and she actually pointed a spot in the backseat and was digging furiously at

At it and sniffing it. Now, during the search with the Oihotas dog, they did end up cutting. a spot out of the backseat of the vehicle. And when I was in the backseat, it was covered with a vehicle cover, you know, like a seat cover. Okay. And they kept cutting out a spot, but I don't know whatever happened.

Okay, and how do you know that the police cut that spot out? Sebastian told me. He told you. Okay. And did he ever say anything about results or did you ask him particularly about results of that? He said that he didn't know what the results were. Colleen and Gordon also say they saw Sebastian burning things in the days following Jackie's disappearance, but Sebastian says the police cleared him.

They dog everything. And uh that brings me to another accusation I got, cause uh that garden was made of wood frame and stuff, so after it got all destroyed, Sorry, I got really depressed and stopped uh actually using it. So instead of letting it grow wild, like I use all the wood that was there and burn it for days on the neighbour's lot. Then it got me accused that oh like he burned the body like in like Uh just stupidness after stupidness if you want.

So yes, dogs came here and clear me, clear the car, clear the house, clear the lot. Cleared him the house, the lot, and the car. I'd still like to see what happened with the seat cover. I wonder how old it was, why it was put on top of the original cover, and why both Krista's dog and the police dog might have alerted to it.

Hi sir, you can hear me? Yes, is this Alonzo? Yeah, that's me. Yeah, and uh nice to meet you all nice to meet you thank you Alonzo, the gate guard. Gordon and Colleen mentioned to me that he might have seen something on the day Jackie disappeared. He wants to work on his English on the call, even though I say he can speak Spanish. Do you remember seeing Jacqueline on the day she disappeared? No, my partner. Uh he sucked her and well he was in the in the gate, right?

Okay, so Alonzo didn't see Jackie that day. It was apparently his partner. Sir, um I want to show you something. Sebastian he never told us. She was disappeared. That happened I think it was Tuesday. So we called Oyhota. They come to hear and they ask you do you know about this woman because she disappeared and blah blah blah Y en ese momento que recibimos la noticia, ella desapareció. Él nunca nos dijo nada.

Sebastian tells me that he expected Jackie to come back that night, so perhaps because of prior experiences of Jackie leaving or him leaving, it might explain why Sebastian didn't immediately raise alarm bells in the community. The guards say that they heard about Jackie disappearing from the police days after she vanished.

Just on my way to the guard house that's just down the hill from Jackie and Sebastian's place. Hopefully I can speak to Alonzo and his partner about what they say they saw on that day. I spoke to Lonzo on the phone, but I really wanted to talk in person. Just passing the house that Jackie and Sebastian built here. There's a hedge in front of it now that wasn't at the time. So it's hard to see the house, to see a garage behind.

Yeah. I make arrangements to meet in person with Alonso and the other guard Michael. Just a little guard house. I think there's three guard houses in total. This is the sort of most active one that I've seen. Some of them are completely inoperative it seems. Alonzo. Hi. Is this your partner that was here? Yeah. So he's Michael. Okay, Michael. David. Hi Michael. So um I want to know what Michael saw on the day, it was August 7th.

17, 2021. Bueno, lo que pregunta es que si recordás la última vez que la viste. La vi, fui entrando ahí como a las seis y mediana, más o menos. Seis y cuarenta y cinco medios. Por ahí algo así. Ella entró, me saludó. Allá en el carro de ella. No más. So um he said that day he saw her about he said six Coming in, mm-hmm. Coming in the gate. Yeah, in her car, okay, driving in. Did she wave or happy or did she wave? She waved?

Michael says that around 6:30 p.m., Jackie came in, waved at him from her car, and drove on past to her house. Back in twenty twenty one, Michael said he couldn't remember whether it was the sixteenth or seventeenth when he saw Jackie, and that he saw her drive by a little later, around seven or seven thirty PM. Michael also said back then that he thinks he saw Jackie drive to her garage and that he did not see her leave again.

There is another route that you can walk or drive to or from the house, so not seeing Jackie or the car pass again just means past Michael at the guardhouse. But Michael does see something else pass by.

No más, después más tarde vi salir un carro, un taxi y me pareció ver a ella aquí en la casa, me pareció. Michael says that later on he saw a taxi drive past the guardhouse. And behind the scene back in the doctor but He's not sure if it was her or another person. Okay. And what time was that taxi? Do you remember the time? No, no me recuerdo. No, sir. No, no, no. Como una hora más o menos. Era parte de atrás y una persona que me pareció ver a ella.

He says in the back the sea was somebody but he can't see yeah. Man or woman? Uh he say only that was somebody in the back the taxi. Sebastian said that a neighbor saw a taxi on the night Jackie disappeared as well. I wonder if it's the same sighting. So the taxi, you must have known the taxi driver because there's very few taxi drivers, right? Did he recognize the taxi driver? Seeing Jackie come past in her car between 6:30 p.m. and 7:30 p.m. on either the 16th or 17th.

seems a reliable sighting to me. If, on the seventeenth, it matches roughly with the approximate surf store receipt timings of when Jackie would have been returning from there. Michael says he saw Jackie drive in from the Hermosa direction, which would have been the shorter distance to arrive from the surf shop. Not seeing Jackie leave and then seeing a taxi go by with a person in the back, but he doesn't know who, is less exact.

Has he ever talked to Sebastian? Ever? And did you ever see them fighting or arguing or any kind of interaction between them? Que pelearan o tuvieran discussiones. Una vez el vecino me habló que se escuchaban unos gritos ahí. He said one time uh the the the neighbors uh called him because the the neighbor heard somebody was screaming and the house. Vos fuiste a ver. Sí, yo fui, pero no vi nada. Todo estaba tranquilo.

Y Sebastian estaba hablando como unos trastes ahí en el trasteo ahí. When he goes there to see what's happening, the Sebastian He called Sebastian but he didn't answer. So but he said Sebastian was uh washing the um dish in or uh okay or something in the in the kitchen. Okay. And have you ever seen them arguing or fighting? Did you Yeah. They haven't a I don't know what kind of problem with the people to was building the house and I remember I was here exactly

cross in front in in the they having a little scooter uh and she was uh screen and hitting him in the back because she was in the back. She was hitting him in the back. Yeah. And She was hitting him in the back, Jocelyn. Jocelyn or was that his hand in the back uh to uh Sebastian. She was she was I don't know, she was fighting or something. She was hitting Sebastian. Yeah, she was.

The surveillance cameras. Did you ever see anything on any surveillance camera here that showed Jacqueline leaving? No. Sebastian, you're not in the house is they have camera. When uh I hear I hear that version that when they ask, you know, to see the camera he say, uh Jacqueline have the passport, she knows everything about this, I don't have control, yeah. I really went through by cameras because we have security cameras at the house.

And someone does have some footage from around the time Jackie disappeared. A neighbor across the street named Reme Aldana. In fact, Remay says that in twenty twenty one she was the only neighbor in the immediate area who had security cameras. So nobody has a shot of Jackie leaving the house, let alone leaving the house with a bag, like Sebastian told me.

We pour through the footage Rome sends, but because her camera is aimed closer to her house, not every car or motion event seems to trigger it. There are no recordings of Jackie or Sebastian on august sixteenth or seventeenth. There is a shot of Sebastian on the eighteenth around eleven thirty AM on his scooter, And on the fifteenth there is a shot of Jackie's car returning home around seven PM.

It could be surmised that Michael the Guard is actually remembering seeing Jackie drive by on the fifteenth from this evidence, because it is similar timing, but impossible to say because whoever is driving the vehicle cannot be seen. Rome says she has talked to all the neighbors about Jackie, and I ask what she thinks about her disappearance. We're inquisitive, you know, it's right next door. Somebody disappeared. So I need to know what's going on.

And and I th and I think it wa it it was foul foul play, I really think so. I don't think she just walked away like that this is what they were saying. That she just walked away. No way. No way. No way is an opinion from Rome, someone who tells me she doesn't know Jackie or Sebastian beyond waving. Still, theories of how no way happens are still fewer and further between than I would like.

I wonder what Sebastian himself thinks happened. Has anyone ever asked him? I did not kill her obviously yes, so but Who am I to convince anyone? Like people want to see me as the guilty and stuff, and whatever I do, they're gonna think it's me. So even if I say something in their head it's gonna be to prove that it's not me and like to try to say something, whatever.

And if I say uh don't say anything, they still think the same thing. So it's basically wasting my life trying to convince those people. They want to hate me and they want me as a witness. In thinking about the case and maybe in thinking about Jacqueline, what do you think

happened. Uh I'm probably the person who know her the most, right? So like uh I would say since she was like really afraid of pain and stuff, but like uh she was like tormented and didn't want to live anymore and it's been like that for quite a while. Uh I would say she she loved the ocean, so she probably went for a swim, like like uh planning on swimming until she cannot come back.

Until she can't come back. I can't imagine many things that might be harder to do. Swim past where you know you cannot return. At night in an ocean, alone. Others have disappeared from the The same Costa Rican shoreline, and days later the tide has brought them back. The beach sands have held them. Would there be no sign of Jackie? Other cases have taught me that bodies in water can start to disarticulate.

circulate in a surprisingly short time, the fingers, hands, and head first, then at the waist. Sharks and other fishes may not consume everything. Could Jackie have died by suicide with the intention that no part of her would be found? Maybe. As I'm sitting with Sebastian, these thoughts go through my mind, and I notice on his leg a scar. In the days after Jackie disappeared, other people noticed it too, but at that time, it was a new, deep gash.

Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgen. The series is also produced by Maria José Burgos. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Canal is our Digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Tanya Springer is the senior manager, and Arif Nurani is the director of CBC Podcasts. You can binge all episodes of

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