Making Museums Relevant and Reflective is Solvable

glow with every color sparkling curiosity and exploration. Being in a museum can feel like stepping into a totally new world, But the museum is not separate from the world that we live in. Race matters. If museums are the keepers of cultural stories, whose stories and how those stories are told matter, but the decision makers well. In twenty eighteen, forty six percent then of all the boards in American museums were one hundred percent white, and curatorial departments were

over eighty percent white. So how do we get those chairs filled by more representative crowd. We decided to bring these conversations within the museum themselves, conversations around what Egypt looked like and having black people around it. We had conversations around anti blackness in Egyptology, real conversations like that

within the institution we thought was really important. Stephanie Cunningham is the director of Museum Hugh, an organization working to challenge the status quo and make museums more welcoming and representative of everyone. Museums being more relevant and reflective of our society and community is a solvable problem. Tell me about the first time that you went to museum and

what was that like for you. Yeah, So for me, I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, born and raised, and the first introduction to a museum for me was the Brooklyn Museum. And you know, my family is from the Caribbean, Jamaica and Trinidad, and we would go, my family and I to the Brooklyn Museum to see exhibitions and really enjoyed that. And then I ended up going to nurse in high school and I hated it, but the Brooklyn Museum, right across the street from me, really

intrigued me. So the Brooklyn Museum, fifteen minutes twenty minutes from my house was my first introduction to the museum field. And what would you say drove your interest beyond going to the museum, what drove your interest in working in that field. So for me, it was like, it would be so cool if I had the opportunity to be around our all day one, invite people to enjoy this

art with me too, you know escape. You know, like corporate America, I had already you know, learned that people had to address a certain way, look a certain way in corporate America, and the arts was this place where you could be free from all of that and you know, experiment.

There's so many different learning styles. There's people who are visual learners, auditory learners, you know, kinesthetic learners, and and that's what arts and culture provide people with the opportunity to do to get you know, different ways to learn and to tap into the best way that you learn. Agreed. Yeah, So what's the problem with museums these days? Because I don't think you'd be in your line of work if

you didn't see an issue there. And one thing this struck me that you said is you said you wanted to be an artist, and you know, you wanted to be creative and free and do your thing, and you want to get away from the corporate world. And I'm someone who used to work in the corporate world. I've pivoted away. And what I've discovered is that there's always a layer of corporateness. No matter where we go, there's always a layer of corporate So what exactly was the

problem with museums for you? Honestly, I went into the field to be free or what I had imagined or what the museum feel projects. However, when I got into the field, I saw that there was a lot of racial inequality. The museum is not separate from the world that we live in. Race matters. The Brooklyn Museum, for example, is in the middle of Crown Heights, a very black neighborhood, large Jewish community as well. However, a large portion of

leadership were white and from somewhere else. When I became an intern, I was the only person going to like the local college. I was doing my undergrad at Brooklyn College. Everyone else was at an ivy or private school. I was the only black or person of color in the curatorial department internship. Way that I got my internship was I kept applying and I would either get nose or

wouldn't hear anything back. And then I walked into the museum and you know, spoke to someone at Visitors Services and was like, look, I've been come to this museum long time. You know, I'm studying our history at Brooklyn College. Like I need an opportunity. And thankfully someone from the education department was earshot and actually gave me a chance.

But the change that I wanted to create looked like having the opportunity for more, you know, black and brown people being within the field within these predominantly white institutions in New York. Even the educational system pushes institutions like the Brooklyn Museum, like the met like the Googenheim, like the Whitney as premier cultural authorities in New York City. However, I had to learn from myself about Studio Museum in Harlem,

el Museum Delbardio, a Museum of Chinese in America. All of these tuitions that are located in communities that I'm doing really amazing work wasn't getting the visibility and the funding that they so deserved. Last year, after George Floyd died, we saw a lot of racial reckonings happened across multiple fields. We saw it happened in Hollywood, We saw it happened in the food industry. Surprisingly, we saw it happened in very many unexpected places. Did any fallout happen with these

racial recogonings in the museum industry? You know, there was a call for a greater racial equity racial justice within the museum field as well. There was a whole survey done by Museum Next, which is an international organization, asking people do they feel like museums are relevant? And a lot of people said they thought museums was important, but not necessarily relevant because they didn't feel like museums were talking about issue within our society and wasn't standing up

for anything. And so that's incredibly important to know that our society wants to see museums become more involved. There were a lot of people asking for changes made within the leadership and within policies of museums as well. And so what I did was I created the very first map and directory of museums created by black, Indigenous and other people of color. The map now has over one

hundred and fifty museums throughout the country. The list is still growing, but it shows these community museums, or also known as culturally specific museums, their pedagogy is one that puts community before collections. These community museums or doing incredible work across the country. My work right now looks like supporting those institutions and in the same time challenging the racial infrastructure of those larger museums that we know by name.

You stated clearly the problem, and you stated clearly what's going on a lot of inequity within the museum field. Talk to me about how you went from identifying that problem to starting your company, Museum hu and then how Museum Hugh worked with museums in order to create more equity within the field. So it really started out as like a collective to think about what we were going through, how we can speak up, how we can speak out, and things like that. And then we decided to bring

these conversations within the museum themselves. And the first one was actually at the met and it was like thirty of us and we had conversations around the anti blackness in Egyptology, the lack of conversations around what Egypt looked like and having black people around it. We had conversations around the Metropolitan Museum has artifacts from all across the world, right, and ninety percent of the staff and the curators are still white, right, So it's not even cultural representation there

within the cultural collections. So having real conversations like that within the institution we thought was really important. Museum started looking at Museum Hugh as a way to get more diverse people of color within their institutions who have the

skills and expertise and knowledge. We hosted zoom conversations with hundreds of folks throughout the country around what they were dealing with at work in the museum, and so all of those things are really incredibly important to museum who as we continue to move forward, and I'll mention this last thing here in New York City, with the support from the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs, I'm creating what's what we're calling Hugh Arts NYC, where it's

looking specifically at of color created and led arts organizations to amplify their work and provide additional support and also write a comprehensive report about their experience in creating and leading these arts organizations. Listening to you, it sounds like you know the work that you're doing to create space for black and brown folks, especially to be included within the field itself and to be included in the conversations

of the field. It does sound a lot like DEI work, and I can understand the separation that you have because you're not actually teaching them how to be You're just talking about bringing folks to the table, as opposed to confunting internalized biased or going down a very technical path. You're just saying, Hey, there's black and brown folks here, let's bring them to the table. Sure. And also within the words diversity, equity, and inclusion encompasses so many different things.

It almost always talks about, you know, gender, race, sexuality, and all of those things are important, but all of those things are large enough to have a space for themselves, and for me, it's about explicitly talking about race working within the structure of the museum system. What would you say to folks that say that, because the structure is inherently racist, and it's an inherently like a product of a structurally racist society, that it's impossible to see the

types of changes that you want there. How do you respond to that type of criticism? Yeah, I think that what we know a lot of industries in the US, you know, comes from the support of colonialism, racism from our museums to our banks, and on and on and on. However, there is a way I believe that museums can be spaces where it creates equity and creates conversation around change,

and not just conversations but implements change. So, for examples, the Native American Museum in California, which is you know, native run owned institution. During the pandemic, they change their entire focus, not just you know, looking at indigenous arts and culture, preserving that through their own again pedagogy, narratives, and perspectives, but they then began feeding the elders ancestral foods and such for their survival throughout the pandemic because

they realize that people needed to literally be fed. Right, And so these cultural institutions, culturally specific institutions, these community museums, are really looking at the health and well being of their community. For the larger museum field. That is that's crazy, right, we can't be definitely, we have to exactly so that

kind of work is incredibly important. New York Historical Society, for example, which is not a culturally specific museum, in response to the former president's charge against you lack of support for immigrants, they created what's known as the Citizenship Project, where they help New Yorkers working on becoming a citizens. They provided the opportunity to teach them citizenship tests right through their collection. They taught people, and then what they

also did was provided a space for them. They did so in a real way that creates real impact. And the reason why they're able to do that is because they don't separate themselves from the communities that they represent. So let me ask you, how do you know that what you're doing is working. It feels like it's hard to really see a metric here. What types of responses

are you seeing from museums. We've helped hundreds of people gain jobs within the museum field, and I would also say the fact that Museum Who continuously is invited to many tables, whether it be conferences or keynotes and such, to talk about the real change that museums need to make, shows that you know, we are a reputable source within the field, and also that the field is paying attention to the large movement and community that Museum Who has created.

I think that Museum Who has given voice to a lot of people who felt like they were voiceless and have encouraged people to use their voice in challenging the museum to change and to become more equitable. You talked a lot about local museums, especially local museums that are part of marginalized communities. How can listeners get involved at that level? There is there a place they need to go? Is there do they need to do to go in there? Speak to the managers, speak to visitors services. Where do

they begin with engaging with those local museums. I think the first step is becoming knowledgeable of what steps have been taken and what is recommended for folks to take. And for me, how I did that myself was reading Mountain Frustrations, Art Museums in the Age of Black Power, even How to be an Anti Racist, all of those

things shout out form. Yeah, you know, even even that book has helped me even in my work with museum here, and so it's incredibly important for people not to guess what's needed to be done, you know, on top of doing doing those incredibly important readings, you know, following folks who are doing the work. Of course, museum h and others day's museums are not neutral. There's also museum detox.

There is a plethora of articles that are constantly being written about how to recognize, you know, some challenges or issues within your museums that needs to be addressed. That is the first step. Thank you so much for being with us, Stephanie. Thank you. Stephanie Cunningham is the director of Museum Hue, which supports people of color within the museum field and works to situate and promote culturally informed

museum exhibitions and experiences across the nation. We'll have links to Stephanie's suggestions for ways you can learn more in our show notes. Next week, I'm talking with TV writer Mike guy Out about how to get creative, young black writers into the writer's rooms of Hollywood. Mike was a lot of fun, thanks for Insecure, which is my favorite show right now. He's humbly passionate and he's really, really, really dedicated to building a pathway for the next generation.

I laugh a lot in this episode, so get ready for that. I hope you'll join us for that conversation. Solvable is produced by Joscelyn Frank, researched by David John, booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and our executive producer is Mia Lobell. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Thanks for listening.