Conflict is Solvable

for the Nobel Peace Prize. That was for his human rights work. He's basically a peace builder working in parts of the world where peace is most needed. There are fifty four countries in Africa, and despite a long history of colonialism and the newer and potentially even more deadly reality of climate chaos, many African nations are managing to flourish today. Though our solvable is the fifteen African countries

that are currently involved in wars. Victor knows firsthand what it's like to come up in a war zone, having spent the first twenty one years of his life as a refugee. He was one of the three million people displaced by the civil war that has raged through Uganda since the nineteen eighties. That conflict has now spread to the neighboring countries of Satsudan, the Central African Republic, and Congo.

Victor was born in nineteen eighty one during the Ugandan Civil War, a period when many different rebel groups were fighting, and then in nineteen eighty seven, he was only six years old and a particular rebel group sprang up in northern Uganda, where he lived with his family, a group

that became notorious worldwide. They called themselves the Lord's Resistance Army the lra A, and the l ra A grew increasingly violent against civilians, abducting and killing tens of thousands of innocent people in northern Uganda and mutilating manny others. Their brutality against children was particularly severe. They would abduct children and force them to kill, making them into child soldiers. That was one of their hallmarks. Into thousand and three,

Victor's own brother, O'Mara, was abducted by rebels. The family suspect Omara was forced to become a soldier, and sadly they never saw him again. Victor's life has been dedicated to his community and other victims of terror and conflict, namely by founding the African Youth Initiative Network. Even as the thirteen year old, he instinctively chose to fight for peace when manny around him despaired and took up weapons. Today, his organization works to treat both physical and emotional wounds

and advocates a leadership that always chooses peace. You'll hear how in this conversation with Jacob Weisberg. It's a little longer than usual episode of Solvable because Victor's story is one that we just don't get to hear a lot, if at all, especially told firsthand and with such grace. Victor, what is the problem of civil war and violent conflict in Africa right now? The problem of civil war and violence in Africa right now is manifested in mass movement,

the refugee crisis all over the continent. How you have seen the international media the young people dying trying to escape from Africa to Europe. In the Mediterranean Sea, we have seen outbreak of preventable diseases which escalate and becomes more disasters because humanity is caught up in the struggle for survival. They can't afford to care for their own and we've seen increase is death, you know, due to civil war. We've also seen a lot of xenophobic attack

in South Africa. You know, there's the continent, there's such alleges, so much in terms of conflict related movement that results into more tension, tribal differences, ethnic conflict and so much trangles of our properties and in so many ways natural disasters continues to be difficult to manage because humanity are

caught up fighting. What are the major wars in Africa right now and how many people are affected, how many people die in those wars, and how many people die and are made refugees as a result of those wars. To even look at it a bit back in the history study has always saw that after every twenty years massa roseis happens in Africa, especially in the Great Legs. We've seen the windows of nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, nineteen

eighties and nineteen nineties. Night is when we at the random general side, they are trustees in the four in Congo, in northern Uganda the population went through the civil war over twenty years, and Central Africa we have Mali. We have Somalia falling apart. So if you look more, especially in the Great Legs region, we are in that window right now, window of possible Massa trustees. So we are continue to see the instability in Somalia, the al Shabab conflict.

Of course, it's the international community, the African Union working towards trying to pacify Somalia by supporting the government. But still it's a big and challenging civil war that continues to have worked not only Somalia but also the entire region. And worst we're seeing right now is a continued conflict in de Raca. Unfortunately, the Congress people have been through the worst of the worst in life rich nation, such

vast potential. The Congress people have never seen a moment of peace at all, and you wonder how long and this score. But also we're seeing, you know, different countries in the region have Ugandan rebel groups. In Congo, the ADF doing mastercruitment and is linked now to ISIS, and they're doing recruitment within East Africa and even the Southern African countries. And this is growing up to be a

very potential disasters conflict. But of course you're also aware of what's going in South Sudan the last five years has been so vicious that hundreds of thousands have died, millions are displaced. I'm from Northern Uganda where we are doing our work to support post conflict recovery. But also this is the region that currently host over one point two million refugees from South then from Congo, from Central

African Republic. You can imagine the pressure. A communister has been through war for over twenty years without so much. Now it's condition is first to us another million refugees, so the depression ever stops. So the conflicten souths done. You know, in the race in Central African public and Malle is horrible. Deministration in Malley is not even getting better anymore. And of course live alone Libya and you

know the potential Egypt is just traveling to stabilize. And in West Africa, of course there's so much to do in terms of historical injustice, historical conflict that has not been addressed, and this has got the potential. So the number of people dying I can't tell exactly, but so many people are dying every day due to war related crisis, either being killed in battlefields or as a result of war, poverty, disease.

I want to hear about your story. I know you grew up and spent most of the years of your life and a refugee camp. How did you end up there? I was born in northern Uganda, in the district Cholera, and I was born in nineteen eighty one, just immediately after Dictator Idioman was deposed of power. And in that community there were more than ten rebel groups operating, including the current government was in the bush fighting and where I grew up, I could see the only vehicle I

saw as a child was a military truck. There's no other vehicle. The only flying object the plane I saw was their captor, the military captor and jet fighters and bombing us and we won. That said, what is going on? And how long can disco? So? I was born in conflict, I grew up in conflict, and then it went on to the community, went into experience, continued to cut rustling by never in cultural tribal groups. Then the Lord Decision's army emerged and that became the worst of the worst

in Uganda's history of conflict. It started close to our home and we were at the immediate target by the lay but also we are the media. Our community was the media target by the government battle field, so we became the center of battle for both government and a lot of resisions, I mean, and this went on. As a child, I could see I was wondering how long was it going to end? It took us twenty years to get out of that. So my growth I grew up in war. I grew up in the camp. I

spent my childhood, as you know, in the camp. Growing up, I studied in the camp. I survived all the war related you know, challenges including health, education, feeding, shelter and one of the people who spent over seven years eating one meal a day. We didn't have food. My parents are too poor in terms of education, you know, it was even the more challenging. Of course, in conflict, education

is not the priority. The biggest worry is for every child is if I will get the next That was the most wedding experience as a child, because it was always the tough to way that you wake up in the morning until four pm, you've got nothing to eat, and then you eat until the next day four pm. That is the life I grew up in. That's the life I survived and I start to struggle with my education, with my health. I survived. There was twice about outbreak

in my community and live alone, manigieties, malaria. I went through anything that walk on course. And you've talked about the cycle of violence and revenge that people who are victims of war become warriors and one justice, but it perpetuates the cycle of violence. How do you break that cycle? To break the cycle of war and violence, it's easy

said than easy. Then, First of all, walk with so much amount of trauma and the trauma needs to be healed, if not illed, trauma crits that a war then becomes war trauma, trauma, war cycle. You need to get to a point of breaking that, and it also becomes generational. When children are born in conflict, their parents would always be asked why are we being killed? Why are we being targeted? And these are the question that most parents

doesn't have an answers. But then the question comes in the parents reach the point of saying, we are suffering because of that tribe, we are suffering because of them.

That's already telling the child who their enemies are. So that transgenerational, cross generational transfer of trauma of pain is like planting in the new seats of violence in that child who's being told who you are, enemies are, so you have somebody to hit as soon as you can understand the world you're growing up with who you are, enemies are, with what you want to do next time you have opportunity to revenge, to strike back, to let

them feel the pain everybody. As a child, I wanted to study it, become a doctor, to become a journalist, to become a you know, a pilot like another person's. But when walking, everything turned around. All became about survival. You're walking now and all of a sudden, two people get blown by landmines right in front of you. You're playing with your friends and within a few minutes we separated the bat. They are taken and they've never been

seen again. You're just playing football. There was a moment when we were playing football. We made our own ball because there was no football we were in the camp. We bought one hundred of us. We made our own ball and we were kicking, kicking, and one of the elders came and so our ball made out of rugs. You know, we were playing kicking around hand falling, and he came and picked and said, kids, what are you kicking? Said, made our own ball. We're very excited. And then when

he unveiled it, he found something wrong. It was a bomb. It was unexploded bomb. And then we were told that this is a bomb. Run. We're took off in many directions, crying and shouting, and we're afraid if this bomb blow her over one of the devasts, we're going to be dead. The question is who is next? Then becomes you. You are the next line. You can be blown off, you can walking alone, even be abducted. Every painful moment was

to see your mom leaving home to fetch water. The big fear was will seek him back on my life? Will see not be blown by landlines, will see not be wrapped by the man in uniform. So this was every child's biggest fear. You know, the feeling of learndliness, powerlessness, and you feel unwanted, you feel though you don't belong.

So this is the kind of spirit, the kind of feeling that renews and continues to perpetuate, and you know the trend of violence because the child will grown knowing that I have to do something to prove to my parents that I love them for what they did to me by retaliating. One of the cruelest aspects this is children who are kidnapped and turned into soldiers. They're victims,

but they become perpetrators as well. It is very clear, almost obvious, that a child victims, if not properly rehabilitated, becomes an adult perpetrator. They're so indoctrinated. They are told would to kill, how to kill, where to kill, when to kill, and this is all their land. And once a child is misinformed and made to go through experience

which is so painful. Like Northern Yogana, what I saw, kids as young as teniers and below were abducted and they are forced to kill their own parents before they are taken. You don't want to come back home. What are you going to do back home? Because you killed your own father in front of you had assistance, They saw that you're the one hitting, You're the one beating until they died, and then they took you away. So that kid, when it's in captivity, we never want to

come back home. That is vicious. That is a very challenging part and now also comes into the issues of the role parents plays. Parents go through too much during war, especially women. I know in Africa there's that sense of feeling that a man, you must be strong to provide for your family, to protect your family. But when you are so powerless, there's that moment in war that you are too powerless to protect your own and that moment of vulnerability is when a lot of men gave up.

Either they picked up began to go and fight in in being powerless, powerless and hopelessness or the committed society. A lot of men died during conflict. A lot of women demonstrated much more strength during conflict than men because a woman will say, okay, we know we are not supposed to be so powerful, we're supposed to be able to fast it, and they will do every risk to

protect their family. But now in the post conflict verity, war is manifest team more in women than men because throughout all this time for women going through this process, they took too much. They sold a lot of strength and demonstrated, you know, power in the face of adversity. But now a lot of men in the post conflict

are not as affected that women. You know, we can see manifesting so heavily in women and the trauma, the pain, and this is where the child say, this is the reason war is the reason why my mother is going through this kind of pain. I have to do something now. That's when they become adult perpetrators. They're looking forward to retaliate,

to revenge, to strike back. And that's why I think parents or families plays a big role, because world destroys the most important institution in families torn a path, society down a path. I want to know what made you, growing up in a refugee camp as a young man, choose the path you did and think about breaking this cycle instead of, as you said, the path of despair or continuing the cycle of violence and seeking revenge yourself. I've seen the best humanity can do and the worst

humanity can do. I reached a point where I was exhausted. I was tired. I was tired of my own insecurity, my fear I was I wasn't sure if I was the one was wrong. As a child, I kept on asking myself what did we do to deserve all these kinds of It would be raining heavier than this, but you have to run and sleep in the rain, without tent, without cover, without shelter. And this was not for a year. We waited for war to end. Took years, took ten years,

over became twenty years. War was still continuing, stronger and stronger. But then as a child, it reached a particular moment when I think I was on the brink of giving up like another kids. I saw my friends who are running in and out from Monday to Monday. We every next two hours run. You're being chest surviving attack to surviving landmines. And life became so complicated, and I saw my friends volunteered, somebody volunteered to be adapted. Said, even

if I stay, I'm not being protected. I have no choice, but let me just go. If I go, I'll probably have a gun. I'll be in charging my own security. I'll kill somebody, or somebody might kill me. This was a despair. We went to fetch water in the morning, in a group of about eight to ten of us. On our way to fetch water, two people in front god blown by landmines. Boom. We took off running back without a small container jarragon for water. Were crying running

towards home. When he got home and my mom told me to go and pick up some goats because he said, now that the landman said, that means the rebels are round, So take on and and get the goats and bring them. And then when er I left my friend at home, I went like for a distance on all in all, the process took less than five minutes. When I was speaking the goat pulling it home, I came and asked my mum, where did my friends go? They said, they've all been taken away, said by Woo, said the riva

just took them right now. And that's how I survived that man one particular moment, and I I was just lost. I said, no in the morning, some who were blown by land mine just now. Some are taken already, and the question is who next. It became me. I was next, and that's when I realized that it was no longer far and it was just a matter of time before I'm taken. And we Mum said, no, don't mind, it will be fine. Let us keep on trying as much as we can. Then there was all of a sudden

gunswers we ran and came back. When he came back home after a few hours, we found like so many dead bodies at home. And I remember my mom shouting and crying loud. Who met the gun? That was a statement, who met the gun? Who manufactured the gun? Shouting at us, look at every one of us. We don't have the question. We don't have the answer to the question who made the gun? But she kept who made the gun? Why a gun coming to kill children? Women? What did they do?

Who made the gun? That was like she was crying and you could tell she was powerless. We didn't have answer to a question, but that was a repeated question, and who met the gun. The next day, so the government military track came and everybody was running towards the camp center, and I asked, Mom, said, what is that. They said that the government has brought a lot of weapons, and they're saying anybody who can shoot a gunslow to shoot a gun. So they even brought the child friendly

uniform military uniform. So it meant that women, men, children, everybody who can fire the gun should go and pick up the uniform. I saw people running and I told Mom, I'm not going, so yes, don't go. So my remaining friends, out of despair, picked up the uniform, picked up the weapons. They were trained for a few hours. They were deployed to fight the rebels. You were how old? I think I was thirteen. Some were younger than me actually went and pick up the uniform. We didn't have clothing. Some

went because they wanted something to wear. Myself, I had only one pair of shot. There was nothing else. So when I told myself I'm not going, and then said, perfect, don't go. When they went, kids as young and women with children in their back became the guns. They were trained and order. The rebel waited for them, were laid them and pushed them, disarmed them. Some who try to just were killed somewhere their hands, nose, he has lips cut off, and some were taken. Those whose world you

know this figure. Those who were mutilated were sent back home with their body parts at turn. Take this to take government. Take it to seven. This was a message from Lay. In the evening, there was crying all over the camp, and I said, this is it. How long can disco? The next day I said I'm not going

to sit and watch. When I did, I went and I sat three hundred meters away from the child soldiers recruitment center, and I started pushing my friends who were coming to join, because they said, you come, come, everybody was out of frustration who were coming. I would stand there, I would stop them, talk, don't go, You'll be killed. People that I was joking. I became hated by some of them. My name also future to the rebel camp that I was the one discouraging young people from joining them.

My name was also with the government troops that I was the campaigning discouraging patriotic young people want to protect their community. And for the first time both rebels and the government troops from their common enemy that was me. It went on to become so difficult and so complicated. We were struggling in all ways with education. My parents couldn't even afford to buy a pencil. They were that poor. And the worst of the worst came. I lost my

mom when she was started by malaria. There's no medicine, and the road to town, which is about twenty five kilometers, was blocked by several camps of the rebel. Rebel camps, we tried as much as we could to get medicine for a mom. There's no single government health centers working, no private health center. We didn't even have money. There's nothing. Then my brother, whom we followed, was two years older

than me. We sent him to town. That can you go and pick up medicine from the government hospital in town? He had to walk through the bush. Took him almost twelve hours to go through the bush from Holli morning when they still dark to late night when they still dark. When he got to town and he went to the government hospital and said that our mom is very sick and we don't have we don't know, we don't have any means to bring up. We don't have a bicycle. Then,

so we have come to get medicine. And then the government also told him that no, we have to pay an equivalent of half a dollar to get medicine. He didn't have the money went back home without So when my brother went back and said, we did not manage, so maybe we should take our mom get away of taking her to the hospital, the road was blocked nowhere called no bicycle, no nothing. We had to make some reads to carry her through the bush to take her

to the hospital. But we tried our best as our children, taking her through distance a little bit. But when he went through, there a moment when we almost stepped on landmines went through our bushes. We could we survived and our mom saw that our health was deteriorating. It's not easy anymore. And then he said, I know you're trying your best to take care of my health, but don't mind about my health, mind about your security. I don't think i'll make it. Take me back home. We took

her back and she went on. So that was difficult, very very difficult. Of course, as a family we remained so solid. The children were much stronger we the children were stronger than our own. Our father was so depressed and it was on suicide watch because it didn't have anything to do. It was lost, it was powerless. It

was it was unable to do anything. In two thousand three, after struggling so hard to survive, to leave my brother whom we sent to pick our mother the medicine, him and I went actually to the village so we had some two house and we wanted to pick it up and we rode on the same bicycle with him for the first time I worked for had bought a bicycle, and that was the first bicycle in our family I bought for him, and he was a very happy man that day. It was because it was also a priest,

praying always for the people in the camp. We went together with him at home. We spent the night in the same house, the same building, and in the morning said, now the road is not very safe. Let me walk ahead of you with the cow and another young man. Then he follows the bicycle because from the same family would be very rescue for us to walk together. Two kilometers away from home, we entered the ambush, so the

rebel started chasing us. But as we were walking, there was another woman walking behind us, like five hundred meters in the road, and she saw us being chessed by the rebel, me and my friend and the two cows, and ran back home and said, those kids are already taken. I saw them being chessed and they were so un rebeled with a gun chasing us, and I said, no, we're all going to stop until they shoot us, and we kept on running. We ran across the valley and

then the rebel stopped, so we were not taken. Black Play my brother, upon hearing that we were taken, he was panicking and freaking wanted to come, and the soldiers stopped him said no, don't go. If they're taken, we shall get away of recovering them. If not, let them go, but you remain for me. I was also on the other side of the bridge, afraid that my brother was going to come and enter the ambles. There was no phone, Nora.

The only road we had was blocked at night. When the soldiers told him nobody's going to go to town, we were blocking the road. The rebel came and took him on the tenth of December two thousand and three. Unfortunate, up to now, we has not come back. He was abducted together with my two cousins and other closer family members. They all never came back, and that was the moment I was just lost. I had all the wishes in mind. If I had a gun, I would have probably attacked

the rebel myself. I was going to have a one man army. I had other wishes that if I may be a made a mistake by not picking up the gun, by not becoming a soldier. But something in me kept on telling me that no, no, no, carry on and your choice to be peaceful was right. So I started walking to the camp. I would just walk like I was lost. I was mentally and well. I think I was also angry and still wondering what to do. Walking through the camp, I would see people children who lost

both parents were in the queue for food aid. They would be kicked out. The sick people would be kicked out of the line. I was angry that people were kicking them out. I feel like I wanted to like fight them physically. Why are you kicking the most vulnerable people out of line? Because the only people were strong enough could get food. It was always a scaffle and I started somewhere from nowhere. I started acting like a

weird person. I would go and pick these people were weak and sick, put them in line, and I said, no, you touch them. I'll deal with you until they get food. I'll not leave. People saw me and say, what is this guy doing? Who is he anyway, He's coming from a different camp. What is he doing? But I left it the next day, but at least something was burning in me. That's why I went on to form this organization called Africa You finished the Network because I was lost.

I wanted to talk about peace. People didn't understand. When I started the work with the organization, there was no money. For two years, I was struggling to look for asking people can give us two hundred dollars five hundred dollars funding. They said, no, we are not here to give you money. But you started it in one camp yeah, And did people join you and work with you? Yeah. I started in one camp. I went on to another camp doing eloping these people and then said, Okay, maybe what I'm

doing is right. So what I need to do is to now have a formal institutional backing. People become so suspicious if you have good intention in a community where violence is the order of the day. That was so strange that there was somebody was so kind that all the international engines who had all the money, all the big money, they never gave us anything. They all said, no, we are not here to support, we are here to

allow other people. After we started working talking about peace meeting formally abducted meeting for my child's soldiers and families, people told us, why are you talking about peace that you've never seen? We kind of talk about peace with all these war wounds on our body. I could understand

their pain, I could understand their fear. In one of the incidents, I was talking to the young people, I was cancelingde this young man who told me his story how it was abducted, and what it was told to do, how he killed other people, how he abducted other people. And there was one particular story that he told. It was actually talking about how we operated in my home area, and he went on to talk about the church because we had built a church at home. Then said, yeah,

in that camp. Actually we used to hang around the church and that church was exactly in our home we built it. Then I went on to probably more and he explained one particular situation, how we abducted, what they did, how they came and made sure that the soldiers who were sleeping in the church, which was photometers away from the house where people were sleeping, would be guarded, would not be allowed to know what was going on. He explained how we abducted my own brother. So he explained

how he took my brother. It was a very difficult encounter, how the tide him, how they made him carry loads, and how they tried to cross the water, and majority of them didn't know how to swim, And I knew my brother didn't know how to swim, so I when you talked about that moment of forcing them to swim, yet they didn't how to swim with lots of luggage on their head. I just said, no, I don't want to know what exactly happened to my brother. I did not tell him. You didn't tell him. I did not

tell you realize it was your brother? Yeah, I did not realize. And I told him, can we stop the discussion and I have some emergency. Can I come back tomorrow? Then they continue, They said, yeah, of course you can go and come back. I was freaking out. I was I was darken. It was I didn't know what to do. I wanted to cry, I couldn't cry. I was chalking in pain and shocked in disbelief what I learned about

my family fate. In the morning, I went back to the kid again, I said, can we continue talking because I also wanted to know what happened to my brother. When we started talking, it how the money to cross the river, and they went to the field, They went to the primary school where they had so many other rebel groups assembling, and with comparing the abducted numbers of people. So then how they tried There were people who tried

to escape. They were killing them in the in the in the playground, and I just again they couldn't handle that story anymore, and I said, Okay, this is it. Let's let's stop now. I'll come back after a week. Then you can continue discussing something else, because the story would always be heavy. Is innocent is a child? It was never a commander because as a commander you have command responsibility, but as the commander, you have no choice about to do what you're told to do. Something. Go

back to him, go back to you. It could be a good opportunity for you to work with somebody who probably would be a good tool for you to mobilize other people like him. I went back after a few days. I met with him and I said, I want to work with you. Said, I don't care about your level of education, but all I care about is your heart. You have such a good heart. You've been through too much, but you're so strong. I think you can talk to and work a lot to people who have been through

terrible life like you. That moment of giving a handwritten appointment letter to this young man, promising to pay him an equivalent of eighty dollars a month, I've never felt anything like that. The process of picking the paper, handing it over to him, and saying that I want to work with you. I'm appoint to giving your appointment to become one of our counselors, will train you to even to become better and better. I felt the heaviest lord of pain, of fear, of the torment felt of me.

You know, for the first time, I became myself. By handing over that trust, that love, that care, that kindness towards my brother's a doctor, I felt at peace with myself and I felt at peace with him. I've started feeling at peace with the world. To me, that was the most powerful moment of my life. And I today he works with us, he still works with you. Yeah, he doesn't know that. He doesn't know that he that he was the abductor of your brother. I've not told him. Yeah.

And did you ever find out what became of your brother? No? I tried a lot. I was once working on the radio. One of the formally abducted came and said, are you Victor? Said yes, we used to listen to your program on radio because I was doing a dollar sense sexual reproductive health. And then he used to listen to your program on radio in the bush. And then did you have a

bread who was abducted? Said yes, so the one day he was listening to you and he was crying as I was listening to your voice, and I said, okay, what happened? Then said, I don't know what happened because as we listened to the radio, all of a sudden there was a government helicopter came and said that randomly bombing us. There, a lot of children were adapted, a lot of people got killed. I don't know what happened to him. I never saw him again. We all run

in different directions. So that was the last day I saw him, and that was the last information had about the victor. Tell me about your work today, how the organization is ground, and what you're doing and where you're doing it. We say it can we use our pain transform it into something good to helop us built ourself and then we use that story to helop Us build

the African Youth Inititive Network. And since then we've been working to support medical reabilitation of victims of mutilations of gunshots, trauma, healing victims of sexual violence. It's ongoing. Actually, up to now we still have ongoing medical sidebo comes to conduct. Is now about twenty two thousand people that we have supported those whose lips, nose, ears were cut off, amputated,

sexual abuse and all that. We have a group of forty two young people and working with permanently employed with us. Half of them are educated their degree olders, others captive and masters, but half of them are not educated. There are people when you go to my office you'll find there have no lips, they have no ears, they have no hands, but they're doing terrific work. Their experience compares to no degrees in the world. They're wonderful people whose

stories empowers themselves, empowers harders. Not until people heal physically and emotionally, it will always be difficult to talk about peace and justice unforgiveness. Because we have healed people, it has opened for us the doors now to work with young people, mobilize and train them as leaders in peace, you know, in reconciliation, in mediation and conflict prevention. This is what we're doing with the young right now. In other parts of the continent. We do a lot of

continent wide exchange programs working with the young people. It's more about the focus. How can we plant in the spirit, the seeds and the culture of peace among the young generation. How can we support healing, reintegration, but also support community efforts towards reconciliation. In addition to that, also work to promote the international criminal justice. Who've been promoting a lot of the isec the International Criminal Court to prosecute, to

mobilize victims as witnesses before the court. We are happy and frustrated at the same time because the whole thing we agreed up front was any move to ensure victims get justice would support it. We supported iscs so much and still I now reach a point of saying that for the sake of justice, trial must be bad at home. And when you talk about the vision of ending violent conflict in all of Africa, is it really about this

movement spreading? We're talking about bringing the international system, the international framework, normative frameworks, and you and all those players on board and bring on the same table the traditional African approaches. They were born too, you know, the things that have held the continent together. If we bring them together and integrate them, then you can say, who are they players in peace building? It's not only religious leaders,

it's not only elders. It's not politician, but it's politician, youth leaders. We main leaders peace at home defines peace in the community, defined peace at the nation. So we're saying if we can help bring people together through the Peace Academy, then you can and greater platform where we can train youth as peace builders, launch a peace movement,

a continent word peace movement. Because we have an African outlook, want to build a peace Academy in Uganda, but then start conducting a training opportunity to support a youth leaders on different parts of the continent and after forming the web Network of peace Builders, we launch a peace movement. It is our hope that through the Peace Academy in two three years time, we can have an African lead

model peace building operation, not peace keeping operation. We want a model peace building operation, something that we know where the next war is going to happen. Even right now, the world knows where which account is going to go through the next war, but nobody's doing anything to prevent it. We want to be able to be preventing conflict upfront. But only it is possible when we have the local, homegrown peace builders, homegrown conflict media us not waiting for

outside one to come. Patrific and empower ourselves and create the platform where can also strengthen our humanitat and response capacity locally. There's so much we can respond to protect and support one another. But because we are not more blized, we're not connected, it's so difficult to do it. So victory, I know a lot of people listening to the serve is moved and inspired by your story as I am

hearing it. What are some things that people can do to support your peace initiative, but also more generally to promote prevention and end to violent conflict in Africa. I know the one is full of problems, and sometimes people find that the suffering or the war or pain is too far away from me. Just because it is in Africa doesn't affect my business in Europe, in America, it's okay to some people. That is how it feels. I've

always wanted to reach out to people. We genuinely want to allop Africa and allow African people to live life of peace and the continent is safe. There's so many ways one let us support, join hand and support the local actors, local peace builders, local young people. It hurts me to see they're dying every day trying to escape the continent. They're diving into the unknown in the water. Africa has given to so much wealth from this planet.

But I think the world timers came also for the world to get Africa out of poverty, would be willing. We would be happy to be supported to allop us build a peace academy, support our work in training the peace activists across the continent. We need change right now in Africa, but we cannot pursue change by planting seeds of destruction. We need to pursue change by planting seeds love and careful fellow humanity. And that's what I think you can do as a listener. Don't think it's too

far away. If you love me, if you love our people, we love the continent, you could allop us work towards hunting the right seats in the right generation, at the right age. Let us have a platform, welcome, promote the culture. Maybe we're going to in our lifetime raising new Mandela, raising new Desmond, Tutu leaders who have sown so much care and treasure for humanity and the other people give us so much hope. And I do believe so many Africans really hoping that one day there will be peace

and they will live better, happy life. Victor, I feel like I've just been talking to someone like the people you mentioned, and I want to thank you for who you are and what you're doing, and for sharing your story with us. Some incredible personal testimony there about life in a war zone in northern Uganda from Victor Oten

and his journey through it and out of its. Archbishop Desmond Tutu said, my heart swells with joy to see Oten as one of the new hope for Africa, and it's a rare and beautiful thing to know that much of Victor's work with the Piece Academy and his work with survivors of conflict is coming down the line. You can find him at African Youth Initiative dot org. Solvable is a collaboration between Pushkin Industries and the Rockefella Foundation,

with production by Chalk and Blade. Pushkin's executive producer is Mia LaBelle, Engineering by Jason Gambrell and the fine folks at GSI Studios. Original music composed by Pascal Wise. Special thanks to Maggie Taylor, Heather Faine, Julia Barton, Carlie Migliori, cher Vincent, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Gladwell. You can Learn more about solving today's biggest problems at Rockefella Foundation dot org. Slash Solvable, I'm Mave Higgins. Now go solve it. It It couplet