Welcome to Software Testing Unleashed, the podcast for software testers developers, test automation engineers and all people who want to make great software. I'm Richie your Podcast Host! keynote speaker, author and podcaster. My guest today is Jaclina Polak Matanovic. she's an experienced QA manager driving QA excellence in complex regulated environments. She's passionate about high quality delivery effective communication and continuous improvement.
And we talk today About a very interesting topic because Jaclinha builds the bridge between software-quality assurance and her skills from motherhood what you learned From being a mother skills and experiences she can bring now from the motherhood into her software quality job. A great metaphor because there are a lot of skills, and lots of parallels dealing with people. so enjoy this episode and have fun! Yeah, it's great because you have such a great topic.
I saw in the abstracts and did a program from The Quest Tuck here that combined your experiences. That's a topic we have to talk about here in the podcast. Thank you for thinking that way, I also think it is an important topic because usually this conference is full of some tech topics but there are places where some software one, I would say communication and the things like that. And i found it really important also in a conference on conferences but in real life.
Also because on a conference when you have so many You are filled with So many new informations and learnings. Then you need something just to relax and get maybe positive boost. that I want to send with this my topic here. and yes, i am a mother. And I have three daughters. they are pretty old now. the older one is twenty the twins are seventeen. how I will manage it or if i would manage at all.
and It seems to me, let's say that the people who are working and I was for some time... ...for years at home thinking what we will cook today or where we'll go on which playground. And in my head the other had like learning about rock-and-scientists.. ..and their career is just rising up! So i I ask myself how many times would just need to go into this world again.
But actually on the end, these things that i also get at home are pretty important and... ...I got some skills first.. ..I adopt them and automate. it Turned to be really useful also in my career in testing but also In teamwork and I don't know if you want two leadership or anything. It could really help you many things. so Yes, I wanted To introduce some easier topic that people can get this hopefully nice feeling. Yeah, yeah that's always a good part on the conference.
so let us go into the skills you transferred from your private life to the testing life. what skills were there where I say okay they are useful then for testing and teamwork too. Yes, so I selected few stories and there was really my personal one that happened. Just talk about them just introduce this story And then make a parallels between what lessons i could get from these. The sum that said cooking let's say or something like that can teach you about prioritization, be clear and precise.
Yes, because as I was selling just some small part. If you are at home and there is something on the floor... ...and want to disappear if you said that they have three kids? And then if i say please pick it up! Well no one will pick this up usually usually the one who needs to make it, who left it easy in another room or have a headset and then I need be precise. Or I needed to investigate Who made this? And I had to say please can you pick up? So i need give ownership.
That is exactly like if your opening tickets You need to be precise Sometimes also not think about if something is obvious to you. It does not mean that it's obviously someone else, so you need give all this information. let say opening the ticket and... Let us see if your thing that developer would know on which environment error happened or in which version. just assume that's not actually correct way.
So, all lessons just came from parenting so easily and nobody needs to teach you or don't need to investigate time. noting it for yourself and remembering them... It is easier! I like the idea of their ownership, because when we're doing HR projects nowadays... ...we have this paradigm about everybody is responsible for quality. And it's also not really clear who is doing what at these times. to be clear you are doing that and that?
You were writing this so being clear was a crucial skill in project work too! Yeah, I think that if you have a ticket and they can... If there is no ownership. They could be in the backlock for some time or sometimes. Or maybe you don't have clear processes. Maybe you had some proactive colleagues who would say okay i will do it But if ambiguity really spreads in action You need to be clearer when things are done Especially at home kids, so there's a lot of crowdy stuff.
So you have to be clear that yeah or the I don't know playgrounds was. uh i think also that playground are full off different lessons and they just picked one. when it is let say really you have like a few days before release and so many things to do. You don't know what to do, how to do that... We are at the start of too many tickets or open bugs which cannot be done. There is still regression testing And there's pressure or stress.
when I was with my kids on playground they are twins and when there were toddlers, like just starting to walk. And usually kids... I'm not sure if you have it but its really not important. They're actually walking all the time. so people ask me how? Can you manage it alone? if one is running to the, I don't know busy road and the other two swing or what how will react? Yeah. Usually I would say that I was saved first in a greater danger. So this might have luck maybe.
The lessons here are... took this one, let's say about this prioritization. And that is exactly this right? You need to have all in your head. you know what the most important thing was and then other things. just go through these tasks one after another communicate with someone to be sure that your priority list just correlates with the owner. or let's say release, not have some totally different one. And then you can do what you want and I will do this.
first three, last two... I'm not so sure but lets see! Yeah no stress everybody knows it has its limits. we know what we can choose. So, then you can come down and just make your own work as it's pretty normal without anything. And let us see what we could do! Let say I ask for help also if i'm alone or with my neighbour. please take an eye on this one... Is there anybody without too many tasks to jump in, help me with my task? So when we spread responsibilities then feel more is manageable.
Or the task on a playground just... When you're a parent try be always one step infront. so yeah think also about what could happen, how you can react. So not only reaction but just to be proactive a little bit. and yeah that is something this skill very useful in the environment with... Yeah I can relate to lot of stories because my daughter was small child. so it's great idea focus on this skills and take it to the work too, because there are so many parallels. I see now!
You worked before after you were at home coming back into your job. did you realize that you're more focused in these skills? that you are more aware of this, explain to people. That's not always obvious. what do you think and make the clear task? Was it a really consciousness in there? It came with time.
so actually before I was pregnant i worked as software developer only after With a testing topic and so on because I also thought that this development And some these languages are going just rapidly fast, then I'm out for sometime. So but there was also projects in. I didn't. I wasn't so picky, they asked me if i would like to work in a testing test management and project management. And that sounds really okay for me. So I started. but yeah come back to your question. No!
That is the reason why I make this. because it came just later on Of course, it's clear. and yeah I could really...I was just later on aware of all these things. And that is why i make this to say that people not be so afraid give them positive feeling its value there. On the other way around after being in a testing job now for new time, do you see any skills from testing which can take at home? Yeah I'm sure that there are some. There may be more but yeah i need to think about it.
let's say In testing, what I'm usually...I am really detailed. Maybe i carried that also from my faculty. so for my education and I studied math sometimes yeah but yes especially on my project they like this part of me. So I'm really detail. then it's just going to all these questions and I am working with a great colleagues. And they really never was. she'll really like all my questions, then i can be really open? Yeah that is something. yes... That's maybe not always good!
Maybe it isn't in the projects or anything but Yes..I found this part of my personality. That was something that really growing in my career. But I can use it at home, to ask from kids... ...to take care of the details. What's so inspiring about this topic is we are a whole person and not private business people. So we are the same and as you said, personality. And each part of our life has a reflection on other parts.
so I think it's very interesting to think about skills how they move between these areas here. Yes Yeah, it's always that and you are trying to... the skills that you have. That is like your strong one To make them even better on. if You want influence this kind of skills from someone else And the ones that maybe are not your Maybe a little bit weaker part of yours then too somehow also work on them to make at least some acceptable levels. That is the whole point, but also some openness.
or let's say when I was there were really two great contributions for... audience that was listening to me and I'm really thrilled. they give this. She said the first one is patience, so she says sometimes when at home you need repeat something once or twice more times... And then people usually I don't know, sometimes expect from you to react on the first one. or if that does not have these kids. but then this is really skills we all need to be let's say patient and respect everything.
And they respect differences collaborate much better, give the space for everybody. And yeah... The other girl just told me that she has also three kids totally different and one is really proactive and one's a silent one. If she would always be listening there would be always this proactive talking something and she will never, the silent one will never come to a stage let's say. And that is also in work.
we need to see if you are on some leader or team lead position just take care of everybody. get their own spot. yeah so We need to be inclusive. Respect everybody as you said, as a person. So great Jacqueline thank You very much for being here in the show and to inspire us with the transfer from private skills To business skills And back. so I think yeah we can reflect on that. then we can't think about it. what is In our life skills personal, private parenting life we have maybe.
We can use in our job more or less yeah? Yes I hope so. Yeah, thank you very much for putting the flashlight there. and yeah i wish you a great rest of the conference here. yes it's a great conference and i'm really pleasant to be here. i am grateful for invitation from you and from the organizers and i hope to see somewhere else. sure we will have a good day.