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Good morning, Michelle.
how are you?
I'm all right.
Yeah,
Yeah, feels like a slog and it's only January 13th. So I am. Uh, I don't know what it is. I think usually everyone's exhausted. Right? This is normal. I hope.
so I, you know, so you send out your January investor update, even though you don't have investors, but it's like, that's like the form of writing. Um, you're talking about how you were exhausted, uh, another company whose investor updates, I guess. They're talking about being exhausted. I was talking to another founder this morning. They're talking about being exhausted. Like everybody is exhausted. Like, I feel like that normal, like it's a new year. Yes. Like energy like that.
Like there is none of that energy and everyone is just exhausted.
Honestly, I'm kind of glad it's not just me. Cause I was like, is there something wrong with me? Like I'm not usually exhausted. That's not my Mo but man, this month, like just trying to just everything with the kids and school. And it's like every day it's like, oh, or the school is going to be open. Oh, are we all going to get COVID today? Like it, it just feels like a, you know, like an anvil or something like just waiting
Yeah, I feel like we're Mathias. And I really talking about see you the other day and like, We were like, we feel this like stress to get a lot done because it's like, it feels like a matter of time until our family gets hit, like with, and then we're going to lose what, like week two, or maybe have like permanent long-term exhaustion, like from it, like, you know, It's just like, I just sort of feel like w like sitting ducks, you know,
It does. Someone said something to me and they were like, and they made a really good point. They were like in 20, 21, things were bad, but we were optimistic. And so it's 20, 22. And I don't think anyone's, I
We just, exhausted.
just exhausted. Like, I'm just, I've been thinking about it since I sent that. So I was not even going to send it. 'cause. I was like, you know what? I don't even care. I don't want to do that. And then I was like, you know what? I actually got some stuff done in December.
And the, the value, I think for these investor updates and just side note for anyone listening, even with a new business, I would highly recommend finding one or two trusted friends and sending them monthly updates because it's so cool to be able to go back. When you think you're making no progress, I have this podcast, I can go listen to it from a year ago. Being able to track that progress is really cool, which is why I started doing them. But this month I wasn't even going to do it.
I was like, eh, I don't feel like it. And I was like, well, you know, I'll look back on this in six months and I'll be like, what was, what was January? Like what was December? Like? So I'm glad I did, but as you know, the tone of that was very much like, Hey man, I'm tired. Like, I'm just, I'm just tired. Oh,
Yeah, I, I hear a lot of, that. I mean, you're a pretty like peppy, positive person. And so hearing you say that you're exhausted, I feel It's really a sign that like
Yeah, I, I kind of,
of this.
I. feel
And like, Mateus is pretty upbeat and positive too. And he's like, oh, I'm So stressed out. Like,
So I, you know, and it's this stress that you can't dissipate in any of the healthy ways? , one of my life goals, is not to be the working mom. Who's always exhausted. I tried to optimize my life, so I am not exhausted, but man, just the past couple of weeks, every night, my husband and I have just been like, oh my gosh, we're so tired. and can't function
yeah. It's I mean, I've been like trying to do Sudoku at night, rather than scrolling Twitter or whatever. I've actually been really good about that. Like, it was one of the habits I've been cultivating from, um, atomic habits is that like my phone lives in the office. And So. At come 6 30, 7 o'clock during, when I'm home, my phone is like put in the office. It's not laying around the house, but then from like seven o'clock onwards, Stays in the office.
And like the last couple of times, it's like, I can't, like, I've been making like stupid errors on like, uh, easiest levels to docu, like, and it was just like pan, like w where is my brain? Like, where is my mind?
Yeah. Yeah.
Um, but actually like, my burnout is kind of better. I feel like we should probably, I should probably just throw that pin out there
Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about it. Tell me,
and then we can come back to your investor update because.
yeah, I can talk more about it.
about that. Um, but I like over the holidays, like I actually took a break, like, and I treated It. Like I was on, you know, PTO from a regular job, like, and just relaxed and like, didn't try to do things. Didn't try to squeeze work in like, cause I have this bad habit of like, if an email comes in and it'll take me. 10, 20 minutes to deal with it, then I'll just do it then, because I don't want it hanging over my head.
And, but then that leads to this feeling where like I'm always kind of working. And so like, even on pretty much an every vacation for the past, you know, I mean, do you go to your turns eight this month? So like for the past, like eight, but more than that, because we had other side projects before that, like. Like, I just always had some sort of work to do on vacations or viewed vacations as a time to get extra work done because I wasn't doing day job work.
Um, and so this time I was like, you know what? I really need to just like, take a break. And so we did a lot of crafts. We played video games, we did a little bit of organizing the house, but not too much, like didn't force myself to be productive. Like. I read a couple of books, like just like baking, like just really relaxed for the first time in,
Eight years,
nine yeah.
nine years. Wow. Wow.
Yeah. Okay. Now I'm saying that as, yeah, I have. Uh, and, and also doing some reading about, you know, uh, why I both feel So drawn to stress, but also. Very impacted by it. I'm reading this book called scattered by minds by, um, Gabor Bhate, which is a book about the origins and healing of ADHD. And like talking about how like, feeling stressed out feels like a normal, like the normal state of things for a lot of people with ADHD, but we're actually more sensitive than people who are.
Who are, you know, who, who are, are the neuro-typical people, I guess. And so the stress impacts us more, but we keep seeking stress because it feels normal to it. But then we just like, just drive ourselves into these holes. Um, so yeah, so like I actually relaxed, I've been doing more, you know, healing, work, healing reading, but not too much.
I also read some novels, like, you know, um, But I'm feeling a lot better about all the burnout stuff, but I think I really need to keep being conscious about, um, trying to re I like working at relaxing, I guess that, yeah. Um, yeah. You know, those kinds of things, like not, not looking at my phone at night and like, you know, last night it was, there's like this contract I've been working on.
June. Um, and like something came in for it and like at like nine o'clock last night and it was like, oh, like I just do this for like 15 minutes. Then we're like at signature stage, I get so close, but I was like, you know what? Like, I can reply to them in the morning. They're probably still gonna reply to it tomorrow anyway, because like that, like, like I don't have to do this right now. Like I can sit and watch parks and rec or do Sudoku or what.
Um, like I can relax, like giving myself permission to relax. Um, I'm not all the way there yet, but it's, but it's really like, it's, it's, it's a lot better than it was in November. And it really, I mean, to what we were just talking about, like, it really helps me to know that a lot of people go through this too. Like I think, I think that, you know, Bernay brown talks about like, you know, the only feeling is it the only feeling worse than shame is feeling alone.
And when you're going through something tough, like whether that's burnout or COVID burnout, exhaustion, like stress, whatever, this is like, it really helps knowing you're not alone.
So how long was your vacation? That was actually a vacation.
It was a week in the house. Yeah. We were supposed to be in the U S and then we had to cancel it because COVID.
sad.
But, um, you know, I think it ended up being good. And I'm also looking forward to seeing you in California at the end of March
Yes. It's like eight weeks or something. It's
come home. No, no. It needs to be further away to give COVID time to calm
10 weeks. I know, right? You better be here. I
come on America. You could do it. Um, But you don't, I mean, for like, you know, your update, it. was like, it was really honest and it. was really, um, you know, you were saying you're exhausted, but like, I think despite that, like you got a lot done and I think you have a lot to be proud of,
I think so like, yeah, go ahead
well, you just, just say like, you have this list at the top. It's like December goals and how I executed on them, overhaul the documentation to be more. Image resizing. You have been talking about image resizing, like for A really long time. content rollout, like, and talking about how having Cory Hanes on like really helped you with that and getting that going and okay.
There's two things you didn't do, but like, dude, you got something done that you have been talking about doing like the documentation you've been talking about doing that forever. The image resizing you've been talking about doing that forever. The content you've been talking about doing that for. Like, like you got a lot done.
I did. Yeah. So to our listeners, as I mentioned, I started doing these investor updates, even though I don't have investors. So it's just a small group of very trusted friends, um, who also have sasses from all levels of success. And. Yeah, I got a lot done in December, which is why when I was like, I am too, literally Michelle, I was like, it's January 12th. I sent that yesterday. Right. I was like, I am too tired. I didn't do anything like I'm new. I have no January goals really.
I mean, they're teeny tiny. So I was like, I'm not going to send it. And then I was like, wait a second. I did a lot in December, so I actually did do a lot. The documentation thing is huge. And the image resizing, those. I have been feeling that those are like really critical pieces to this piece of software. So actually feel really good about that. And can I tell you this too? I told the story about how I found this guy to write my article on the podcast yet.
Yeah.
Oh, I got to tell you the story. So this was inspired by Corey Haines who came on software social. And if you heard that episode, one of the things Corey talked about is this idea of co marketing. So he has this theory that if you're marketing to developers, like you kind of want to find influencers in the developers sphere and co-market with those people. So it's kind of like a partnership. Like if you like my thing, you promote my thing, I promote your thing.
He said, this is like a totally normal thing to do in the marketing world. And this had never occurred to me. So what ended up happening is I cold emailed two people and I did not hear back. Um, one had a YouTube ch whoa. That was Michelle's water glass. It's fine. She's just getting a little aggressive.
We'll edit that out.
So I cold emailed two people that had rails like YouTube channels. And I did not hear back. And then I found this article that I really liked, and it was tangential to content. I am trying to produce. And the guy doesn't have an email address. So I'm like internet, internet stalking this guy. Right. Um, I'm like, I find his GitHub profile, no email address. He's like, oh, if you want to reach me, you can get on telegram. I don't have telegram.
I didn't even have telegram was so I like installed telegram. I can't use it on my computer cause apparently I just can't figure it out. So I have to like install telegram on my phone. And then I reached out to this and this guy's like in another country, I think. I don't know. Um, so I reached out to this guy on telegram and like I did not expect to hear back. He responded. And he wrote me this amazing article about using node and direct uploads with S3.
And I was like, this is the coolest thing. Like, it was just such a neat, like that whole chain of events, like Corey inspiring me, me not hearing back from people then be like randomly finding this guy who wrote me this super high quality article. I don't know. It was just cool. I guess
You really worked for.
I did. I feel like, especially the telegram, because you haven't, you'd have to take a picture like, oh, now I have to take a picture of selfie with my phone and put it on Telegraph. It was a whole thing anyway. So where I'm going with this long story is I have many times spoken about my challenge with content on here. And I think I have, I have said that I have hired someone. I have tried people per hour. Paid at least three people on people per hour, and I have never been happy.
And so my new strategy is going to be find, go to medium or dev two or wherever people are blogging and find an article that is tangential to the topic I am looking for and directly contact the person who wrote the article and ask them to write an article for me.
Awesome.
I know I'm kind of excited. I mean, it works so well this time. It won't always work well, but the two people who have written for me. Both of those people. I'm the first person who wrote for me, his name was drew and I found him through a social software developer group. I'm part of, and he had previously written on dev too. So I could like read his stuff and I was like, this guy's legit. I want him to write something for me.
So that's my new plan instead of trying to use Fiverr people per hour Upwork.
So I actually hired some people to write some content this week. Too. So maybe this will become a little sub theme for us of us like managing content
content, right?
like workloads. So like we had this idea for a long time to hire existing users, to write tutorials about the stuff they're already doing with . So like, you know, if they're integrating it into like Metta base or air table or. You know, whatever, um, like writing a step-by-step tutorial about that, which has been a, um, a pretty good. SEO strategy for us. It's just step-by-step tutorials in general. Um, but we just like, don't have time to write them about all the different tools.
And so we send out an email in December, um, saying like, Hey, does anyone want to write articles about stuff? And you know, we'll pay you and like, let us know what you would want to write about So. Um, I'm actually like signing agreements with like a handful of people kind of as a test and sort of like, you know, I've said I'll hire them for like one article and we'll see how it goes.
I think it's really important to us that to what you said, um, Like that there's quality work and people like get our product and what we do. And so That's kind of our, I like my theory with us is that if we hire existing users, then. That's already a certain level of screening. Like they, like, if they've used our API before, there's a level of like technical understanding there.
Of course it doesn't mean they can write, but like if they've raised their hand and said they can right then I don't know. So we'll see how it goes.
That's cool though. I like that idea too. That's a great idea.
I mean, of course we have you know, tens of thousands of users to draw from, which is not a luxury that you had. So we're kind of taking two very different approaches to. Content production here.
that's cool though. I think, I mean, that sounds like a great way to go about it.
Yeah. I mean, one fear I have is like, if people ask us, like for further details on how to do something, Uh, yeah, we don't actually use super base, so I'm not quite like,
sure.
yeah. Yeah. So I guess that's it. But that's like a future. That's a problem for, for, for future Michelle and Mathias. Not right now. So, but she is something else for your like January goals that you talked about. Like you said, you have really small goals, but I feel like your. I feel like you're kind of underselling that because like your one, like your top goal was launch a free plan on Heroku. And I'm just going to read this.
I went to do this the other night and realize I write wrote all the code three months ago. I do this a lot, get 95% of the way done and then have to shift my focus to something else. So this should theoretically be a very small step. Also a friendly reminder to myself that I get something 95% done. I should finish it. I'm usually working at night and I'm tired when I finished. So I think, great.
I'll do a final review in the morning, but of course the morning comes in my day job takes precedence and the context gets lost,
Yes,
which I think is like, so yeah, so common. Like I remember how that. happening with us when we were working, it's actually like as a side project. So you're just constantly pulled over to other things, but like, But like, first I want to say that that's not like may. Okay. So maybe it's a small thing. Work-wise because you only have 5% left in it, but like value wise, like I think you're under selling the amount of value that could create for the business.
And only thinking about it in terms of the time that you'll like, that feels very
I see what you're
in terms of the amount of time left on it, versus the amount of value. It will create for the business.
Yeah, you're right. I didn't, I
Like it's not a small thing.
It's not a small thing, so no, it's not a small thing at all. I think, you know, Corey and Chris, um, friends of ours have a podcast called default alive and they were talking about something. Corey, who, a marketing guy who was on this podcast talks about is he was talking about. Sometimes you just need more people at the top of the funnel. Right? He was like, he works with a lot of people who want to optimize for what they already have, and that's great.
You should optimize your articles or whatever, but he was also like, sometimes you just need more, like you need more top of the funnel, which I didn't even know what that meant before. But now that means for people who are new people who are trying. And so you're right. I did not think about it that way until you bring it up, it's theoretically a small push from a technical perspective, but it could be really big from a value perspective. Yeah. I still think, yeah, go ahead.
no, just like thinking about your exhaustion, like if you've got something to do, that's like a small lift of work-wise, but like a huge value to the business. Like that's like, that's a great thing to get done because I could really give you just, you know, it's not going to solve all the worries in your life, but like little bit of a boost, you know?
yeah, what I'd really like to do, um, is do like, and I'm not going to do it yet. Cause I want to do one experiment. But I really, I mean, if you look at the way, you know, Nick was on from Bonzai, like if you look at bond size pricing or paper trails pricing, or century's pricing, or any of these Heroku ad-ons, they have all of these tiers. So usually it's a free tier. That is like a $12 tier. Then it's like a $25 tier. So I. Start at 35.
So I think eventually my goal would be free tier like $18 tier before like a tier in between, between free and 35. Um, that's a lot that I'm not definitely not going to do right now, because again, that's, that's a big lift. That's a lot more, but, um, I think I've, I've um, what's the word psychologically or subconsciously been dragging my feet on the free tier a little bit, because. I'm a frayed. I don't know if afraid is the right word.
I am curious, interested to see if I suddenly am like, have a delusion of requests. Like as soon as you have a free tier, you're going to get all kinds of feature requests and this request, and it's hard to filter those in terms of who would actually pay for this and who wouldn't.
I mean, we have tens of thousands of free users and we don't
Wow. You do tens of thousands.
Yeah. We have a lot of users Colleen
I forget. I mean, it's cause you're
to.
dude, it's so funny. Wasn't it? Someone once said something about your business on another podcast and they were like, oh yeah, they probably do 10 to 20 K a month. And you were like, uh, not exactly.
And we were by like, Oh, I guess we've been like really good about not being like, you know, ostentatious. Also that's wildly inaccurate. So maybe we should like that's. I was like around the time I was like, okay, I guess in the book, I actually have to, like, I have to say something so that people know it's like
well,
know, I kind of know what I'm talking about. Like maybe, um,
I think honestly, I don't know. I haven't launched the free tier. I have no excuse. The code is literally done. I need to take two hours. The thing is like I wrote my own email sequence and until it's, so it's like, it's. I'm laughing because it's a little ridiculous, but so if you are on a free tier and you have really low storage, like 20 megs for most people, 20 megs is going to be like five to six images. Like it's not a lot.
So I wrote my own email sequence, which is like, oh, if you've hit, what did I do? 10% or no, I think I did. Like, if you put 50% of your storage, send an email. If you hit 70% of your store, Send an email if you had 90%, but if I've emailed you in the last three days, don't send another email or something. So I came up in my head with no, no external influences. So it's probably a little ridiculous of this email sequence. How frequently I'm going to email you as you approach your storage limit.
I think I did 50, 70, 90, but if you hit 50% and then you hit 70% and it's within a day, I don't send you another email because that's annoying. But if you hit 90%, I always send you. Something like that. Anyway, I did something like that. And so I have to like check that I'm not, extraneously sending people emails and I have some specs around it, like some automated testing around it, but I want to walk through it a few times to make sure it's not ridiculous.
Would it make it easier for you to just send people an email when they hit 90? So then when they get the email.
Michelle. Why didn't you say that? Three months ago?
I'm sorry. I only say that because we have, so we have our unlimited plan, right. Which is like our not rate limited plan where people get, they, they basically get their own dedicated server. We're like a weird SAS where we have. Dedicated plan. Um, and, um, and then people, but like if people, So people could process like 5 million lookups a day on a single instance, but then, and so we added this dashboard like last, like a year ago now. Yeah. Where they can see the like instance health.
And then if they get to 90% capacity, it sends them an email. That's like, Hey. You're in danger of overloading, your instance, like consider adding an additional instance. Um,
if
and it only fires at 90.
If they overload their instance, you automatically upgrade them or do they just host and they're
no. Then they, then they, just slow themselves down. So,
so you just like rate, limit the API,
no, no, it's just that they, they just start overloading their server base.
so then their apple at work.
Yes.
Okay. So
sort of a, like don't accidentally DDoSs yourself, you know, either cool it or add resources in more professional.
I'm a poor professional. So this is what I've been trying to figure out. Okay. So talking to customers, one of the things people really like about my service versus an AWS is as you know, AWS just automatically charges you more like your, your app never goes down, they just roll you. You know, if you a hit, you know, they don't really have limits.
I mean, there's ways you can set limits, but the default is we're not limiting anything, but we're going to charge you more, which is why people get surprised AWS.
Yeah.
Two people have told me that what they like about my service is they will never have a surprise bill, but the problem is. I want to give them ample time to upgrade if they need to, because if they go over their limit, like their user cannot upload files. Like I sh I mean, you know, I have a little grace period, but. So I'm just, I guess the reason I was doing all those emails was so they would be like, oh, okay. I'm at 50%. I should put this in the back of my mind. Oh, 70%.
Okay. Cause if they hit a hundred percent, um, they won't be able to upload any more files and maybe
always hitting 50, it's not like it's never
it's useless. Yeah.
item for them. And Then if they hit 90 and then it's like, okay, I need to do something about that. And then they don't do something about it. And then their user can upload files. Then that is a, that, that is what, what do they call it. I forgot the word for it, but it's basically, oh, scream test, right? Like if then their user reaches out
Never heard that
Oh yeah. So yeah, people use scream tests in the context of like, you know, if somebody is like not paying you, for example, then you just like shut off their API access. Like as a screen test. to see if like they're paying
they care. Okay. I love it. Anyway. Yes. So, right. So
so like, So then it's so if their customer reaches out and says, Hey, like your thing, isn't working. Oh, shoot. Like I need to like go upgrade that plan. And I just got that email saying we were at 90%. Okay. Let me go do that. Like to me, like if they're regularly using, you know, I don't know, five out of the 10, for example, let's say they're, they're regularly using 10 out of the 20 minutes that they get or whatever the numbers are. And that's just how much they regularly.
They regularly use the same amount that happens to be 50%. Like they're going to get this email all the time and it's just going to be noise. And like, we, like, I mean, we all, I feel like we all get way Too many alerts and notifications and like, you know, just like pings from like all the various monitoring services and stuff to the point where like, it's, there's like a lot of fatigue that goes on with what's actually important and. I
I love
err, on the side of only sending an alert, if it's like actually important.
Okay. No, this is really great. I spent, you know, I mean, of course there's a sunk cost fallacy. Like I spent all
they don't pay you like, you know, email the shit out of them, but like for this, like,
no, this is great. Cause you're at you're right. There's a lot of noise. Yeah. And I had, like I said, I built this whole sequence, which is ridiculous. I'm like, oh, they've
then you have to test it and
Yeah. Well that's why I haven't launched the free plan. Cause I was like, I need to walk
Is this. email was holding you up.
Yeah, this is what's holding me up. You've saved the day,
God.
like this is literally the only thing. Everything
Oh my God.
Oh my goodness. This is like the most wow. Value call ever. I think.
Yeah, kill the emails. And then if people are like, Hey, I would like a heads up in advance. Like that's a problem for future Coleen. Future Coleen can build a future to send out an email at 50%. But I, that is not a like table-stakes feature, I think.
yes. Yeah. This is literally everything else is ready to go. This is so good. Okay. Awesome. I'm feeling so energized
Just go comments it out and then deploy. Well, I mean test, you know, work stuff, but yeah,
Oh my goodness. I love it.
the code you have to write as some comments.
Yeah. Oh, so good. Okay. Well, wow. This is, I feel like I'm
Well, I mean, This is a high note, so I feel like we just have to end here last week. I feel like we started out today, like really low and now we're ending, like we're really
I know. Right? So good.
running a small SAS is a rollercoaster man.
Oh, isn't it.
All right.
Okay. Let's
talk to you next week. Hopefully next time I talk to you, it's going to be like out and good.
Yeah, jeez. So good. Okay. Yep. Let's wrap it up. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of software social. I hope you enjoyed it. Please reach out to us on the internet. We'd love to hear what you think.
you can tweet at us. You don't have to stalk us and find us on.
Thank you for listening. Bye.