¶ Introduction to Carole Bayer Sager
🎵 Music
Hello, and welcome to episode 33 of So the Jerker on Songwriting. This is Simon, and as always, I'm here with my brother-in-arms, Brian. And boy do we have a guest for you today. She is an Oscar, Grammy and Golden Globe winner who during her forty year plus career has co-authored a slew of staggeringly successful songs for a veritable who's who of popular music. It's songwriter, singer, and artist Carol Bayer Sager.
We're absolutely delighted to get to talk to Carol. She's a writer whose work we've admired since before we even knew her name.
It's true, I remember when we finally discovered who it was who was behind all of these songs.
Rydyn ni'n mynd, mae'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd. And then there's her contributions to some of our all-time favourite pop albums. You know, she wrote um It's the Falling in Love, which was on Michael Jackson's Off the Wall.
Yeah, I mean the more we investigated, the more we were just staggered by the sheer quantity and quality of her work over the years.
Yeah, and there's just so many songs that she's had a hand in that are so familiar to us.
Her work is just woven into the pop tapestry, you could say, of the last half century.
That's beautifully put.
Rydyn ni wedi'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i And what an amazing list of artists, Bri that she's collaborated with over the years.
We're talking about the likes of Neil Sadaka, him again. Pops up a lot, doesn't he? Albert Hammond, the recently departed Marvin Hamlish, Bet Bacarak, to whom she was also married, David Foster, Carol King, Neil Diamond, Brian Wilson, Kenneth Babyface Edmonds, even Bob Dylan.
And those are just the obscure ones. The lady herself will be along in just a moment, but first allow us to furnish you with a little bit of background info. Carol Beyer Sager is a native New Yorker. She was born March eighth, nineteen forty seven. I don't think you're actually supposed to reveal a lady's age.
Whoops.
She began writing songs in her teens and having been discovered by music impresario Don Kirschner, she got her first publishing deal while she was still an undergraduate at NYU. She scored her first hit in nineteen sixty five with the mindbender's version of her song A Groovy Kind of Love, co written with Tony Wine and later made famous by Phil Collins.
Yeah, it was included on the bus this sound.
It was around this time that Cavill also enjoyed a partnership with the great Neil Sadaka, who was also on the Screen Gems roster, I think. And uh they penned several songs for the likes of The Monkeys and Frankie Valley.
Carol made the first of several forays into theatre in nineteen seventy, penning the lyrics for the off-Broadway musical Georgie, and during the early to mid-seventies, and sporadically thereafter, she wrote a string of elegant ballads with Melissa Manchester,
Chief among them the sizeable hits Comin' From the Rain and Midnight Blue. Concurrently she began a fruitful collaboration with the late Australian singer and songwriter Peter Allen, with whom she wrote songs for the likes of Dusty Springfield, Liza Minnelli, and Frank Sinatra. and who was later portrayed on the Broadway stage by Hugh Jackman in two thousand and three in the Tony winning musical The Boy From Oz, which featured a number of songs co written by Peter Allen himself and Carol,
In nineteen seventy nine, Carol became one of the privileged few to have had a hand in a James Bond movie theme, co writing Nobody Does It Better with her then partner, the great Marvin Hamlish, which was so memorably delivered by Carly Simon in the film.
I've always loved Carly Simon's vocal and the arrangement is just irresistible.
But yeah, Carol wrote um some great stuff with Hamlish, not least the songs for the stage musical They're Playing Our Song. I think the story of that was something that Neil Simon actually based on, Marvin and Carol's relationship.
Apparently so. That same year a track Carol wrote with the redoubtable David Foster, called It's the Falling in Love, which we mentioned earlier, found its way onto Michael Jackson's smash hit album Off the Wall. Michael Duetting with Patti Austin on that song and Carol's own version is well worth checking out as well. It's featured on her 2 album from 1978.
all of which boasted a stellar cast of supporting players, as so many albums from that period did. And she scored an international hit with the fantastically witty and catchy You're Moving Out Today, written with Bruce Robertson, Bette Midler. It was a big hit in the UK, that, wasn't it?
Yeah, great song. And there's a great video of Carol performing it on Top of the Pops in nineteen seventy-seven and looking quite adorable into the bargain, so you should definitely check that out.
We'll tweet it.
Another hugely significant personal and professional relationship in Carol's life was with Bert Bacarak, to whom she was married for ten years and with whom she wrote some of the most successful songs of her by then already impressive career. such as Arthur's Theme, which won both the Academy Award and Golden Globe for Best Original Song in nineteen eighty one, the Grammy winning That's What Friends Are For, and the gorgeous Michael MacDonald Patty LaBelle duet On My Own.
I'm very interested indeed to find out how the Burt Carroll partnership worked.
You and me both, friend. Carol continued to score considerable success as well into the nineties and beyond, not least with the prayer. a song originally co-written with David Foster for the 1998 Quest for Camelot movie, which won the Golden Globe that year for Best Original Song. It's since taken on a life of its own and it's become one of her most recorded songs.
Rydyn ni'n gweithio gyda Michael Jackson o'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny'n yw'r hynny.
Though she still keeps her songwriting hat in the ring, so to speak, Carol's main focus these days is painting, and having had a glimpse of some of her work, we can safely say she is as adept with a paintbrush as she is with words and music.
It's unbelievably good. You should definitely check it out.
She's only been painting for six years, I think. Right. But her work's already highly collectible and she's had a number of exhibitions and she's also involved with a number of charities and does a lot of philanthropic work to benefit a number of good causes.
She's also a self-confessed internet addict and as such is highly accessible online. Her official website can be found at Carolbeasega.com and there's also a website dedicated to her artwork at Carolbeasegaart.com. If Twitter's your thing, you can follow her at at Carol B. Sager.
As always you can hit us up at Sodajerka.com, Facebook.com slash Sodajerka or just at Sodajerka on Twitter. Oh and don't forget to check out the Spotify playlist for this episode which you'll find at the Carol episode page on our website.
Now let's hear from the lady herself. It's with tremendous pride and not a little excitement that we introduce you to the thoroughly charming and immensely talented Carol Bayer Sager.
🎵 Music
¶ Early Songwriting & Lyrical Instincts
Hi, nice to meet you on the phone.
How are you today?
Good, thank you.
Good, good. We're so glad when you said that you could do this.
Oh, you're welcome
The power of Twitter in action.
That's right. We tried.
Okay, so should we just jump into some questions then? So, looking back over your songwriting career, one of the interesting things for us is that I think you'd already written A Groovy Kind of Love with Tony Wine while you were still a student, is that right?
Well, I was just in college, yes. I was still in college. And uh that was the first song I wrote with Tony and it became a hit. So it seemed very easy to me at that point. Uh but of course It isn't as easy as it seemed at that moment.
And had you already written a lot of songs prior to that one?
Well, I'd been writing songs all through high school with a friend of mine. Um, but that was the first hit that I had, real hit.
What was your role in the writing of that particular song? Was it primarily the words?
Primarily the words, yes. And it turns out that um much of the melody was a a little piano exercise, um, by Clementi. I didn't know, but um so it was somewhat classical the melody, based on a little classical piano exercise.
And why did you gravitate specifically towards writing words?
I just always loved that. Um when I was very young I had a ventriloquist
Thank you.
you know, a little dummy was sort of speaking for me. And uh I think that I just uh truly liked the idea of being able to write about feelings. But you know, you didn't have to take full responsibility for them even then. And then as a lyricist, someone else was singing them. Uh, but they helped me in my life. Uh, they helped me uh move forward because there were lots of feelings and one of the great ways of exploring them was in music and song.
where it says things like, Anytime you want to, you can turn me on to anything you want to. That kind of repetitive kind of approach. Is that instinctive or is that something that you actually crafted on purpose?
No, that's pretty instinctive in relation to what the melody was doing, I I feel like the melody was just kind of doing that same kind of a sing song. Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da felt like there was something nice about the repetition. Any time you want to you can turn me on to Anything you want to. So for that particular song. Now I may have done that again, but I I'm not usually aware of it. It's kind of intuitive what I'm writing.
Right. I think When I Need You is another example of a song that does a similar thing, actually.
Oh that's funny. You know more about my habits than me. Um A little bit, yeah, a little bit. I think you're right.
🎵 Music
And uh well as as well as ventriloquism, was was music a big part of your childhood growing up? Were you surrounded by music as a as a child?
Well, I just love music and uh you know it's always hard to say if your parent wasn't like a musician which I did not have um musician parents but um my father was very musical. He always listened to music. And uh I grew up in New York City. And at the time that was kind of unusual to have a young girl going to high school with not only music all around, but with um fantastic uh resource because the music industry was in New York. Very close to where I was living.
Anyway, at the time it was unusual for young people to be writing songs.
When I started.
So it's kind of allowed me access. um number of publishers who kept moving around and um And changing jobs. So if you knew one then you knew ten by the end of two years, you know? Right.
Mae'n rhywbeth yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw.
Oh right.
Well I think he wrote that with Bet Midler and Bruce Roberts.
I did, I did. It was lots of fun. I bet when we were writing I kept saying, Come on, let's get some interesting rhymes here. Kind of unusual thing for me to write.
It's such an interesting song, isn't it? You've got all those words and phrases in there and questions that interject and like slap him in the face and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the like annoying boyfriend who was in the background. But uh it was a fun song to write and um I think what I love about it is the comedy of it, you know? I think that I didn't write that many uh funny kind of quirky song. So that would certainly be the the biggest one and the biggest surprise to me when I had a hit with it because, you know, Bet put it out a year before And she was more the artiste, so I expected if anyone was gonna do well with it it would be bad.
But our record labels, she was on Atlantic, I was on uh Electra. At the time they were all one big company in in England. They were Warner Electra Atlantic. So they chose to put my version out and she got angry at me and thought that I did it purposely. I didn't even know they were doing it. So it was pretty hairy there for that year. But we're still very good friends.
Well it's definitely the only song we've ever heard that manages to make reference to a rubber duck and a baker's wife and baby fat as well.
🎵 Music
¶ The Art of Songwriting Collaboration
Are there typical ways that you will approach a song? For instance, do you read the news for inspiration or jot down interesting words and phrases that you hear?
Mostly my favorite way to write is I hear music. chords here and there and then words start to come to me. So I've written every which way. Um, nobody does it better, Marvin Hamish. just passed away um way too early. Told me he was doing the Bonn film. And uh I said, Oh, I have a good title for the Bonn movie. You should call it Nobody Does It Better And then he went back for me.
with the Broccleys who produced all of the Bond movies to convince them to let me write the lyrics because they were used to having already proven songwriters like John Barry write their um Bond hits, but um anyway they gave me a chance and the result was nobody does it better and that one I wrote really. in London beginning to score the film.
🎵 Music
You know, I can write any which way. I can write a lyric, give it to someone to have them set it. I can take a melody and write a lyric to it. But my favorite way to write, because I'm also quite musical. is in a room with the composer or with the collaborator and we both write parts. In other words When I write with David Foster, I'll write the melody too. Most everyone except for Bert Backback who really like to keep the music in the root separate.
Right, so is it mainly your collaborators that develop the chord sequences when you get into a room with them?
Well, sometimes I'll sing something they like and so it'll change, you know, but I would say for the most part, uh they come in and they sit at a piano or with baby face with his guitar and And that definitely uh gets me in the mood. Like words will come into my head and melodies when I hear chord structures and things that won't come in if I was just walking around.
So clearly, um, music inspires means to think about uh different feelings and something I might like to write about unless it's a higher I mean if we're writing a a song for a film, then there's a structure. You know what your role is, what they want you to accomplish in that song. It's really easier because it's like already be giving the framework. You're like on assignment trying to make it work the best you can uh for that film.
But in cases where you're just writing out of the blue, like when I wrote a lot with Melissa Manchester, we would have these long conversations about life and out of each of those conversations would come usually you know, the song we were gonna write that we didn't know before we sat down together. Or maybe I'd have a title or maybe Peter Allen would have a title or you know, it it once you're in the room with someone who's creative as well.
things either start to really happen rather quickly or they don't sometimes. You know, y there's no real um guarantee on collaboration. I could sit with someone very talented and it just might not click between us. It doesn't mean he won't pushy won't go on to have many more hits and um Vice versa. But I think that uh Sometimes you just sit down with someone and they don't even have to be like a famous writer and um and it all happens.
There's no certainty as to why it works with one person and it doesn't work with another.
¶ Contrasting Collaborators & 'The Prayer'
Yeah, really detailed section about the different people that you've worked with. So someone like Marvin Hamlish, how does he compare as a writer to someone like Bert Baccharak?'Cause you're one of the few people who's had that opportunity to sit in a room with both of those people.
They couldn't be more different.
Right.
I mean both of them I think probably were our musical geniuses. But I think that with Burr, um, he was very laborious in his writing. He was very slow. And it took him a very long time to decide between maybe even just two chords, you know, just Do you like this chord or do you like that chord? And then he even giving him an answer, he might go on you know, back and forth and back and forth till he actually decided himself. So um I think that um
the differences that Marvin was very spontaneous. Everything came to him very quickly. And uh if uh if it wasn't working out
he'd just stop and come back the next day. But his process was always uh just kind of spill out, you know? And so therefore it was a very different process than Bert where I sometimes felt stuck in the music room for ages'cause he just I don't know if he really needed to um do all that to I I I don't know how much was ritual and how much was what he really needed, but nevertheless very, very different uh process.
You would say you had more leeway with Marvin than you would have with
I had far a lee away with anyone than I had with Bert. Very honestly. Uh I think uh that's a big difference.
We were also fascinated to discover that you collaborated with Bob Dylan.
Yeah, I think we're going on there as well.
Quite rare that Daddy collaborates with anybody, isn't it?
He's a very unusual man to collaborate with because he's so private. But um it was actually fun. Because he is Bob Dylan. Yeah.
And someone like David Foster is probably quite a different collaborator to someone like Bob Dylan.
Yeah.
The Prayer is a an example of a really successful song that you wrote with David Foster.
Yes.
Do you remember how you went about writing that one?
Yes. We were um working on a songs for an animated film. And that film was kind of uh not really turning out the way we had hoped. But on the other hand, uh we stayed with the project thinking maybe it would get better. It really wasn't a very good film, but the young girl, the protagonist in the film was leaving her mom and going off on this very big adventure and um the mother was nervous because the girl was young and I said to David, Maybe we should have a little prayer here.
and it could go against the action of her like leaving and running through the forest and so David thought that was a good idea and um we wrote the prayer as a uh prayer for her safety. We got Selene and Dion to sing it in the film and then the in credit we had Celine and Andrea.
So funny to have these two extraordinary voices, Andrea Bocelli and Celine Dion at the end of an animated film that wasn't all that good. But that's how it worked and uh how that song came to be and have a life after is kind of amazing. We didn't realize it was gonna be that kind of a song that without having a real hit with it, it found its way into the public consciousness and in fact there's very few weddings that
David and my go to where they don't get married to the prayer. Unfortunately now when people pass away we hear the prayer a lot. So It's kind of uh become one of those songs. David says there's only a couple that are played at both weddings and funerals. Mm.
Right.
🎵 Music
¶ Adapting to Creative Partners
You've also written with some incredibly strong female songwriters and artists. You mentioned Melissa Manchester, but there's also Carol King and Carly Simon.
Yeah.
Do you find you need to exercise any other aspects of your craft when you work with female collaborators? Do they have different sensibilities as writers in any way?
I think it's a little bit easier in terms of coming up with lyrics because I think you're coming more from the same place as being a woman than writing with a man who has a different sensibility. I mean I can't say exactly what it is, but I can say well in the case of Carol and Carly These were people I loved when I was much younger and writing songs. And in the case of Kill King, we were signed to the same publishing company when we were both quite young.
And when I got there, she was already like the great demo singer and writer with her former husband, Jerry Dauphin. And I used to just take their um demos out of the files and take them home and then bring them back, not to copy them. But just that they were so good and I loved her voice so much and that was before she was recording. So um It was just amazing that many years later'cause when I asked her then would you like to write a song, she said, um, I can't. I only write with Jerry Goffin.
And I said, Oh, okay, well, um, maybe some other time And some other time turned out to be like thirty years later, you know, we sat down and wrote a song and uh we actually wrote the song for You've Got Mail um the Nora Efron movie. the interesting thing is that writing with Carly and writing with Carol was a thrilling for me all those years after they've had their gigantic hit
as it would have been if it was right at that moment that they were having those hits because these were people who were iconic to me. And therefore I think the joy was the same. There was no sense of the time lapse, you know? So it was thrilling. I mean, I loved writing with Carol King because it was still
that voice and that person who I had such respect and admiration for and still do. In fact this past week I went down with my husband Ruth Hell, got a star on the Hollywood Boulevard and I was happy to go down and support her. One of those great people.
🎵 Music
I think there was a section on your website about writing with Peter Allen where you say that different people bring out different aspects of your personality when you write with them.
Yes, always. Peter was fantastic and he brought out uh a side of me that was more edgy and a little bit cynical and the romantic too, but Peter could have like a slight edge in in the songs and I could throw out a lyric line, if he liked it he'd use it, he could blow out a lyric line, if I liked it I'd keep it. There was more of a blur between who was doing what. It was just a great collaboration.
And another easy one and then Peter wrote quickly as well. And so we'd write like half a song in a day and then His patience would wear out. He'd go, Okay, darling, I'll be back tomorrow and we'll finish it you know. I mean the the only one who laboured and laboured and laboured over songs was actually Bert.
We were wondering if the song Um More Than I Like You Liza Manelli
Yeah, that was fun.
Is that sort of an example of him bringing out your sassy side?
Yes, I think so. And also that was written so quickly. So uh I think that's the other thing that I enjoyed with Peter was the immediacy of writing a song. so quickly in deciding if we liked it or not. You know, everyone has their own process, that's for sure. And uh that was Peter's process.
And I could adapt I think one of the things that I am And I think one of the things that probably made me a successful lyricist through the years is that I'm very adaptable to different styles and I'm a good collaborator because I can um kind of uh feel into where my collaborator is. And get on that wavelength sort of. I just could kind of fuse in, you know, it's kind of my zealog personality.
🎵 Music
¶ Songs of Personal Meaning & Impact
Another song we really love, which we don't know if you get asked about very often, is How Do the Fools Survive?
Michael McDonald, ja.
Yeah.
Well, I love Mike Macdonald and we were starting to write together a little bit. He was writing for his record, I think. Um was it the doobies or was it his first record?
It was the Doobie Brothers.
Yeah, he was he was doing some writing and we wrote this song together. He just He was at my piano and it was such a great thrill for me because I love the Doobie Brothers. And I love his voice so much, Michael. And subsequently I used him with Bert on uh the duet of on my own with Patty La Bell. You never know if the song is as good as you think or you're just so enamored of the voice that's singing.
You know. Have the same problem with Foster, not in the vocal as much as in the production. He can make anything sound good when he makes the demo of it. So you have to be a little more aware. You know, you don't fool yourself into thinking you've written a number one record and in fact, you know, it's just okay.
So are there particular challenges for you then as a lyricist when you're constructing a duet specifically?
It told us after the fact that it was a duet. Do you know what I'm saying?
Right.
It felt right the minute you put another voice on it.
🎵 Music
Yn ymwneud â David Foster sy'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw
Yeah, well I did that on my own record. I did a record, I think it was my second album and actually Michael heard it unbeknownst to me and just decided to do it on his record. But it wasn't uh thought out in any way.
Well we think yours is the superior version anyway.
Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
Rydych chi'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio.
Yeah.
Are there particular songs that you look back on now as being the clearest statement of who you are as a writer and as an artist?
I think there are two. I think the prayer definitely represented a uh or still represents a very important part of me that didn't get a voice for that many songs, which is a kind of a spiritual sense of hope and uh so I would say for sure the prayer and um I would say
That's what friends are for. Because um I mean there may be songs I like more, but because we gave the money to Amphar, the American Foundation of AIDS research, and we raised uh quite a bit of money, I think I feel um more connected to that song because it had a purpose, a higher purpose. And also it was such a good record.
Yeah, it certainly was. And I think that's an example of you having to follow Bert's melody quite closely as well, isn't it?
Absolutely. We fought over everything, like even an eighth note. Um but um he was right. I mean, but you know, originally he played me da da da da da da. Well what I heard was da da da da da da da da And so I said, Oh that's nice. How about starting with I never thought I'd feel this way? And he said, No, that's not what I played, Carol. I played Da da da da da da da da da I said, Well just say I never thought No, he said, I played da da da da da da da da da da So I went, Oh
Okay. Um he said, let me play it again. So I said, Fine, just say and so he he then uh was done and I never thought I'd feel oh, very good, he said, I like that. And of course, as it turns out, that was better. When I hear it on the radio now, I go, He was right. I just said it like, who cares, you know?
Yeah.
And even lyrically it's better without my knowing it because it makes it as though you're coming into the middle of a conversation as opposed to just starting on a statement. So sometimes when someone feels so strongly like Bert did and I didn't feel very strongly either which way, I just go with the person who feels that strongly. He wouldn't let me move on.
🎵 Music
¶ Creative Outlets and Connection
Do you have some way of telling when you've done your job well as a songwriter? Is it having a melody that just won't leave your head? Or some set of words that really speaks to you and you think people will relate to?
When you're writing something, that something is in your head no matter what. I mean you just can't get it out of your head it seems. So you think it's great, but it isn't necessarily great. It's just occupying your mind, you know? Um, but then I think uh If it stays in your head after you've moved on to the next song and you're still singing that one. That's a key. And then if you go back to it a month or two later and it still sounds really strong to you
then it's time to either try to do something about it yourself or ask your publisher to really try. Most of the songs that I've had hits with have come through either writing with the person who was producing or singing the song or um going after the record myself because publishers have so much to do. They have such huge businesses today. It's sometimes easier for you to get to the audit.
than for them. So, you know, it becomes full time job in that you're really trying to get your own records as well.
And speaking of full time jobs, before we finish we wanted to bring up your alternate career as a painter as well.
Well that's what I'm doing a lot of now. I I would have never guessed that would be my ultimate career and I'm not sure that it is because like the other night we had a party here for holidays and David um brought this young opera singer who's new who I can tell record and and I had Jessica Sanchez here and Ruben Feather and it was just so magical to hear them all singing. But I turned to a friend of mine and I said, You know I think my first love is still music. Because it's just nothing.
that feeling that fills your heart and your soul when you hear someone that great, you know. Um and I love art. And I love painting And thank God I don't have to choose one. I'm so lucky to be able to do whatever it is I wanna do at any given moment. And lately it's been painting but um I would be hard pressed if I had to choose one because I'm not sure that I've ever stood in front of any painting and felt what I felt like when I heard this Fernando Orella
singing Methodorma or when I heard Joseph Sanchez Friday night singing in I Am Telling You, I Am Not Going from Dream Girls, I thought, Oh my God, it just touches something so deep, you know, with goose flesh. You know, it's funny, I started out the beginning of my life I was lucky to go to a high school in New York City called the High School of Music and Art. And you had to take a test to get in. Either you were a musician and you had to play something
I actually got in on piano, playing piano, which I never play anymore'cause everyone I write with is so great. I used to play piano. Or you get in from bringing your art portfolio and showing them you know, your talent as an artist. And it's funny that that's where I began all of it and Now, I have never dreamed that I would have a portfolio as an artist, you know, in a show. It seemed so alien to me from what I did. But I do and uh I'm quite happy about that.
And who knows, you know, you just you never know what turns your life is gonna take. It's it's part of what makes life fantastic, the surprise element.
Yeah, well we were surprised to discover just how recently you'd started painting because we were just completely blown away by the work that you've done.
Thank you, thank you. Yes. Very recent and um very currently into it. But of course when I'm uh painting I have music just blasting.
Right.
I love to hear music. I'll never tire of music.
I think our favourite piece is Kid Delight.
Oh, I like that too. Yeah. The peanut butter and jelly sandwich that's abstracted so you don't really know what it is, but uh that's what it is.
If you're listening to music and you're painting, are there parallels in those processes or is it all just expression for you?
I think it's all different forms of expression, really. I mean the only parallel is you're creating You know, you're always creating and uh I love to be creative. But um I don't know if there's a real parallel between painting and songwriting. It's just that I think when you're a creative person it all just comes through you anyway and uh whatever it is at any given moment is what it is. So
Um, I know that's not very clear, but I mean it's like when I'm being creative in any form I'm happy. We had a party here and uh I wanted to make it beautiful. So I I thought of many ways in which to make the room really the most warm and beautiful and and what we came up with I think uh pretty great. But I was as happy creating that room as I was creating a song or a painting. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So uh for me, the key is to always be creative. and how that creativity presents itself is always a surprise I think.
'Cause I never really do know. But uh I do know that uh without having that creative gene or whatever it was that God gifted me with, I would not have had the joy I've had in my life and I don't know that I'd even be totally sane because I think that one of the things strongwriting gave me was an outlet for my feelings at a time when they were confused and, you know, not the happiest necessarily, um, and it allowed me a place to share and and find other people come up to me and say
Oh my God, that record you made back in, you know, whenever got me through s one of the worst times of my life. I I played it every day'til I wore it out'cause it was like you were feeling what I was feeling and That makes you feel very, very good as a writer. To have someone tell you that a song of yours got them through a tough time. Uh it also makes you feel
connected in a way that you're trying to feel anyway. So while they think I'm doing something wonderful for them, they're doing something wonderful for me when they share that with me.
¶ Final Reflections and Farewell
Well, we're almost um done with our questions. We we just wanted to mention that your um your second solo show at the William Turner Gallery out there in Santa Monica that was extended into January twenty thirteen, is that right?
It was, it was, which is a big surprise to me, but I'm happy'cause it means more people can go down and see it. And um Everything has been wonderful in this year and I'm wishing everyone a happy, successful, loving, peaceful, warm two thousand and thirteen. I don't ask for anything except uh to keep it going like it's been. I've just been blessed in my life to be able to do something I love. do some things that I love and uh continue to do them. So I wish that for everyone.
Thank you. Well, that's wonderful. And thanks so much for speaking with us.
You're welcome, you're welcome. Nice to talk to both of you. And in the meantime I'll see you around on Twitter.
Yeah. Terrific. Okay, thanks a lot, Carol.
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¶ Sodajerker's Episode Wrap-up
That was Carol Beausager speaking to us from LA about her illustrious songwriting career and her many collaborations. Briar, it was great to spend some time in her company.
It was, and it's yet another songwriting icon we can tick off our very long wish list. So what were your personal highlights?
I like listening to her talk about the difference between Marvin Hamlish and Bert Baccharak as collaborators and composers. Mm-hmm. She said that Marvin is someone who worked quite quickly, whereas Bert is much more fastidious and much more focused on the exact notes that he's written for a melody. Yeah. And they would fight over eighth notes. I thought that was quite amusing. Yeah.
It's kinda how we write the podcast. We argue over every syllable.
Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd You know, this like X Factor culture where you add lib all the way through a song, I think it's sometimes just much more powerful if you actually stick to the tune.
Yeah, it's anything but the tune, isn't it, in a lot of cases, with X Factor. But I enjoyed hearing about how she worked with David Foster and Michael MacDonald and how the musical gifts of those people can sometimes cloud your judgments of the actual work of how good the song is. You know, you probably have to remain quite vigilant.
Yeah, yeah. Keep a close eye on those fellas. Okay, so thanks to Carol for a very special episode and check us out at sodajerker.com. Carol is at Carol Bayasega dot com. And please check out the iTunes page as well. You know, leave us a comment, tell your friends, spread the word. We wanna put you to work, people.
So it's time for us to take our dirty looks and our songs that have no hooks and move out.
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our website at sodajerka.com
com slash social.
You can follow us on Twitter at twitter.com slash so.
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