¶ Episode Introduction and Guy Chambers' Accomplishments
🎵 Music
Well it's that time again for another gut bustingly splendid episode of the number one songwriting podcast anywhere in the world or beyond. My name is Simon Barber and I'm joined by my co-host and songwriting partner Brian O'Connor.
yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw'n yw
Ha ha
Indeed. On the show today, English songwriter, producer and musician Guy Chambers. As many of you will know, Guy has written on 34 gold and platinum albums, twelve of which went to number one. He's also the author of twenty-two top ten singles, six of which reached the top spot.
and a host of successful collaborations with artists like Kylie Minogue, Beverly Knight and others. He's the man behind all of the biggest solo hits of Robbie Williams to date, and the winner of three Ivanovello Awards and three Brit Awards.
He's possibly a warlock. We're looking into it.
¶ Early Life and Classical Influences
Guy made music from an early age, attending school in our hometown of Liverpool, and later studying composition and piano at the Guildhall School of Music in London. It was while he was there that he began recording his own songs and writing and performing with bands. He went on to tour as a keyboard player with Julian Cope and the Waterboys before joining World Party in nineteen eighty six. He co wrote with Carl Wallinger on the band's most successful album, Bang.
Guy continued to collaborate with songwriters like Kathy Dennis and others until he met Robbie Williams in early nineteen ninety seven. Their partnership afforded Guy the role of songwriter, producer and musical director on Robbie's first five solo albums. Guy co wrote songs like Rock DJ, Millennium, Let Me Entertain You, No Regrets, and Angels, which are of course Robbie's biggest hits. Together those songs have sold over forty million records globally.
He's like Marmite, as they say.
Love him or hate him. You just can't deny the quality of those tunes that he put together with Guy.
No, not at all. Since then, guys written with and for artists like Beverly Knight, Kylie Minogue, Katie Mellua, Jamie Cullum, James Blunt, Example, Marlon Rudette, Teo Cruz, Tokyo Hotel, Rufus Wainwright, Mark Ronson, the Noisettes, Schmidt, and The Wanted.
He's also produced two collections of music under his own name, The Isis Project and Songs for a Boy. They both seem to be quite important to him personally. I'll have to ask him about those. And in twenty eleven guy was frequently seen on BBC T V with two three part programmes, Goldie's Band by Royal Appointment, and The Secrets of the Pop Song series, which we really enjoyed watching, didn't we?
Yeah, that offered a fascinating insight into the songwriting process. Since 2010, Guy's created the monthly live music experience at London's Floripa Club called The Orgasmatron, which celebrates a wide variety of live acts and musical genres. Links to pretty much everything, including the blog for Orgasmotron, can be found on his excellent and very comprehensive website at guychambers.com He's also on Twitter as at guy a chambers and on Facebook at facebook.com slash guy chambers music.
What I find really interesting about Guy is that although he's obviously best known for these enormous mainstream successes with his work with Robbie Williams and that in in itself is enough you know, commercially and professionally. Uh but if you look closely at what he's done with stuff like the Isis Project, Songs for a Boy and programming the Orgasmatron Knight.
Um it seems like there's kind of an experimental artist lurking just beneath the surface of all that pop music. So maybe there's an interesting tension there or or an aspect to his career that people don't necessarily appreciate.
Hopefully we will find out when we delve into the art and craft of songwriting with Mr Guy Chambers.
🎵 Music
Good thing.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Right. Where are you from in Liverpool?
I'm from South Liverpool, so I grew up in a place called Egberth.
Yeah, yeah, I used to live in Leverbody, didn't know that?
Yeah, actually we were gonna ask'cause we only recently discovered that I think you went to King David, didn't you?
I went to King David and then I went to Cory Bank.
Oh right, yeah.
And how did that come about? Did your family move up to Liverpool?
Yeah, my dad was in the London Philharmonic Orchestra and he moved from that to the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, basically. When I was thirteen. Så det var en stor ting.
Well that was our second question. Actually, we were going to ask you whether you grew up in a musical household, but it sounds like you did.
Yeah, my dad was a flute player in the London Philharmonic Orchestra and my mum used to work for Decca back in the sixties. early sixties. So uh there was always a lot of music in the house and uh lot of records and yeah, I used to listen to my dad practicing the flute and and I was taken to concerts from quite an early age, so that was very lucky for me.
Were you already writing songs at this early point?
Well, I wouldn't call them songs. Um I was sort of uh I was in a choir from the age of about seven, the church choir. Melodies, I suppose. I I I didn't really try any words at that point. But then I was trying to write things like string quartets by the time I was sort of eleven.
So quite you know, pretty much in the classical world really, even though I was listening to The Beatles obviously and uh Queen and uh Zeppelin and things like that, but I d I didn't really think at that point that I could just Still very much in the classical world, I suppose.
And did your um time at Guildhall enhance that classical mode?
Uh, in some ways, yeah, I learnt how to do a lot of quite technical stuff like uh writing fugues, um and uh learning how to do counterpoint and uh orchestration of course, which when I came to work with Robbie, I did a lot of most of the orchestrations for Robbie songs and I think the orchestrations are a big part of his sound and uh so it was useful in that sense and And I still orchestrate now ex when I have a budget to do it.
¶ Keyboard Player to Co-Writer Transition
We want to ask about sort of early on in your career when you worked with the likes of um Julian Cope and the Water Boys and and Well Party. You were a a keyboard player mainly at that point. Was there a transition there that you had to make from being a a band member to a co writer?
Yeah, I I started off being a keyboard player, um, which was fine for a while. I mean, when I worked with Julian I was only twenty two. And I I did a bit of arranging on an album he did called Fried, which I'm a big still love that album now and got to hang out with him quite a bit and he was he's great'cause he was such a great lyricist.
such an intelligent lyricist. I was very lucky with all of those fans. So Julian, uh Mike Scott in The Water Boys and then obviously Carl Wollinger in World Party to work with three Extremely good lyricists. And I think that was... very good for me later on because when I came to work with Robbie and other people I've I always liked to get involved with the words and and and edit them or uh you know encourage
various concepts or themes and I I'm still very uh I still love a great lyric. It's one of my favorite things when we when I it doesn't happen every day, I can tell you, but um Once in a while you you sort of have a s piece of paper in front of uh you know, the words in front of you which I I still print out the words.
And uh and you look at it and you go, Oh, actually you can just read that down and it's it's like a beautiful piece of work, you know. Um but anyway, uh yeah, uh going from keyboard player to co writer, I suppose it took me a long time, basically. Uh in World Party. I was in World Party for five years and uh I would take songs to Carl Wollinger um and he would sort of say that's too pop for World Party and he probably was right, you know, and uh he knocked me back a lot.
Uh and then eventually we we used to jam a lot in that band, so we would stay up all night and we would just play for hours and hours and hours. Which isn't something I really do now. I kinda miss it uh in some ways, but So we just jam for hours and then we might find something within the jam that may then turn into a song. So that was a form of co writing and then he didn't really see it like that though, because obviously For him, a song is just the the top line and the and the chords.
ymwneud â'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus a'r cyhoeddus But hey, it's all right.
Well he always seemed like quite a self contained artist to us, and we did wonder what your contribution was in that situation.
Uh yeah, no, he he was. I suppose my contribution was playing keys, playing a bit of bass, um and touring with him obviously, um hanging out. I mean my contribution to his catalogue is pretty minimal. I I think I co write I think I co write three songs in my in my in five years. So and it became very frustrating towards the end. But um I did learn a lot from Carl, you know, I learned
¶ World Party Experiences and Lyricism
about words. We used to jam a lot of other people's songs. So as a band we would play prince songs or Beatles songs, obviously um Neil Young, Bob Dylan. So I got to learn an incredible catalogue of great songs, which he would sing brilliantly. He had an incredible memory for oherwyddau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r pethau'r To me being twenty three, twenty four and hearing all those words sung by somebody who's br a brilliant singer.
was really exciting. And also the other thing about World Party was they were managed by uh Spanioli, Ruffalo and Cavallo who were Prince's managers. So I got to meet Prince, went to Paisley Park. Wow. And um That was very cool and we got a cassette of Sign of the Times before anyone else had heard it in the world. We were the first people to hear it. And I remember being in a van on tour in Europe, uh
listening to this album and just thinking, Oh my god, this is as good as the White Album, you know. Well it's it's close to being as good as the White Album, I think. Um to me it's like it's his White Album. Yeah. So that was fantastic. And so we used to go to Secret Prince gigs and uh we went to that very famous gig at the Camden uh it was called the Camden Palace, it's now called Cocoa.
Byddai'n ymwneudol iawn. Byddai'n ymwneudol iawn. Byddai'n ymwneudol iawn. Byddai'n ymwneudol iawn. Byddai'n ymwneudol iawn. Byddai'n ymwneudol iawn. even though songwriting wise I didn't really get that far, but as a human being and as a general musician It was incredibly uh important actually.
¶ Cathy Dennis and The Lemon Trees Journey
And not long after that you wrote with Kathy Dennis on songs like When Dreams Turn to Dust. Yeah. What kind of a collaborator was she?
Um, well, she's fantastic uh melody uh me melodists, you know, coming up with melodies, she she can come up with ten different melodies on a chord sequence effortlessly. Um And I do like the way she has a sense of humour in the lyrics that I really like. Um that was a final solo album that I worked on. Um and I guess She was struggling to she wanted to change her sort of style of music. She wanted to go a bit more indie, I suppose.
And maybe that was a mistake looking back. But I mean it was a lot of fun working with her and I still work with her now on and off. I mean I think she's one of the great female writers in the world, for sure. Um She's obviously written some classics. Um Yeah, I mean she's uh she's quite a character. She's great. She's good fun.
So this was post lemon trees as well, wasn't it? A at this point were you considering yourself a professional songwriter by trade?
By the time I formed the Lemon Trees, I you know, we got signed to what was then called M C A, which is now part of Universal, but um we were yeah, once you get signed and you've got records out, you are a professional songwriter for sure, yeah. And uh I think we put out five or six singles and they all charted and they all they're all sort of listed on radio. We did pretty well, you know. I mean
Sales weren't great. I think the first album did about twenty thousand, but um there was a show back then called The Chart Show. I don't know if you uh
Yeah.
all the videos used to get heavily, heavily played on the chart show and um you know, and we toured with Susan Vega and it was cool. It was uh then we made a second album and I made it with an American producer called Jack Joseph Puig. He was pretty famous and he's worked with uh the Google dolls and his uh who else is it were Jason Moranz, I think, and John Mayer.
He's an A&R guy now as well in America. But anyway, so he did the Jellyfish Records as well, which I don't know if you know those. Yeah. phenomenal albums. And we were big fans of Jellyfish. So we did the second album with Jack. I co produced it with Jack, but halfway through making that album the rest of the band ganged up against me with Jack and fired me as the producer, even though it was my band.
We got dropped when the uh when the label heard it they we got dropped. And um that was a good lesson to learn and when I came to work with Robbie I was incredibly aware of not screwing up the second album.
¶ The Breakthrough with Robbie Williams
Well yeah, I was just about to ask you about Robbie actually. You you're well known for co writing most of his best known hits. How did Robbie arrive in your life?
Um, it was through my publisher, Paul Curran, who signed me when I was in World Party. So he signed me a probably nineteen eighty uh I don't know, about eighty eight maybe. And uh He knew Robbie's manager, Tim Clark. And um Tim Clark had a list of ten writers on a piece of paper. And he had a meeting with Robbie and Rob just randomly picked my name. I wasn't the first name apparently, I was about halfway down.
And he just randomly picked me and said, Oh l why don't we try him? And I was very lucky that he did that. And then he called me up and he said, Can you write dirty pop? And I said, Yeah, sure, I know what you're talking about. I love that idea. I mean he had a concept for what he wanted to do straight away. And um from the very first session we wrote, um the very first song we wrote was called South of the Border, which is on the first album, which I love straight away, you know.
Um and the second day we were at Angels, so by the end of that week I knew that I'd found somebody incredibly special and talented.
Fantastic. I think we'd probably always assumed that Carl Wallinger writing She's the One had played a part in that introduction, but it it's interesting to hear that it had been so random.
No, it's nothing to do with Carl at all. Um in fact when when Rob did eventually sing She's the One, Carl wasn't impressed by his version, didn't actually like it. Anyway, he he got his kids through school. But um no it was through Paul Curren and uh he stuck with me for a long time, Paul Curran at BNG. You know, he I think he signed me in eighty eight and I didn't meet Robbie till ninety seven. And I hadn't really made much money from eighty eight to ninety I mean when I met Rob
I was absolutely broke. I was living in a flat in Archway, which I don't know if you know London that well, but it's I mean, it's actually come up in the world a little bit since I lived there, but it was quite a, you know, poor part of London and um I was in a flat that had a leaking roof and I was basically just about to get dispossessed. You know, they were d the the bank were gonna take it off me'cause I couldn't afford the mortgage anymore.
And um you know, it was it was quite it was quite an intense time. I was literally just about to give up and uh and then he walked through the door. It was an amazing timing really.
¶ Crafting Robbie Williams' Hits
And when you sit down to write with a an artist like Robbie Williams, you must be trying to achieve a number of different things, like obviously writing a great song. ensuring the artist is saying what they want to say, um, keeping the vibe and the energy good and yet still steering attention towards the ideas that you think have the most merit. Uh can you talk about that process?
Uh that was quite a complicated question. Well, I mean, with him, yes, the e keeping the excitement up sometimes was important. I mean with like for example, Let Me Entertain You, that started from uh uh a jungle loop that I had knocking about that was really fast, you know, jungles like a hundred and sixty VPM or something. So he loved that loop and that energy. So that's how it started. You know, we rode to that loop.
And only later did it become this sort of who meets Frank Sanartra uh Sammy Davis Jr. Masha. But but initially he kind of thought he was writing this cool jungle track. So I sort of trick him sometimes by doing that. Yeah, I think I think keeping the energy levels i is is important. But you know, uh quite a lot of our songs were written in hotel rooms, like in the middle of the night or
in the back of a bus or just with an acoustic and and we just sort of mess around and we wouldn't we wrote so many songs. I mean in the five years I worked with him I think I wrote a hundred songs. It's a lot.
Wow. You mentioned something earlier about the importance of lyrics. And the lyrics on the Robbie songs are always quite idiosyncratic in the sense that there's a lot of colloquial sayings in them and you know, put the kettle on and uh I dance like my dad and all this sort of language. Is that mainly Robbie's attitude that we're hearing there or do you play a part in that stuff as well?
Um well, um it definitely reflects his sense of humour. He is a very funny man and for him making people laugh is very important, you know, so there would he liked to put as much humour in songs
And you know, and I wouldn't discourage that. I d I don't see why songs need to be serious. Um I mean obviously, you know, a song like Angels is serious. Uh there's no humour in that song, but um You know, songs like Millennium and Strong and Let Me Entertain You, Rock DJ, of course, it's it's that you know, he's a big fan of Ian Dury, he's a big fan of Biggie Smalls back then and
you know, Biggie Smalls used humour big time, you know, Jay Z uses humour. Um I think it's fun to have lyrics that are are fun and and and make people smile and And w when we used to play the songs live, you know, you'd see the whole crowd mouthing the words back to us on the stage and and and loving all the little jokes. in them, you know, even though some of the jokes are quite infantile, you know. Um but I don't think that matters. Uh
You know
that thing in Rock DJ, what's the thing about um coming backstage you don't give head, you don't you know if you wanna come backstage you've got to give head, you know. I mean it's kind of terrible really. I mean kinda really sort of naughty, but we were like a couple of naughty school boys I suppose.
even though I was old enough to know better, but um I I didn't discourage that naughty schoolboy part of him because to me that was part of his cheeky wobbby persona and I thought he brought that off brilliantly, you know, in my time.
Absolutely. I think it's strong where he says, I look like Kiss but without the makeup and uh that's a good line to take it to the bridge, which is actually even kind of like a commentary on the writing process as well in some ways.
Yeah quite a knowing joke, yeah. Well he knows a lot about the writing process. By by then, as I say,'cause we were writing so much. um he just loved writing. I mean that was his favourite part of being a pop star, really. Um I'm sure it probably still is now. Uh he he finds the gigs are very difficult and he finds the uh promotion difficult. But but writing he he's a he's a brilliant natural writer, there's no doubt about it. When he's on a when he's on a good day and
he's really feeling strongly about something. He's he's fantastic.
¶ The Anatomy of Angels
Was that the case with something like Angels? Did that come quite quickly? Yeah.
Yeah, totally. You know, he he literally just walked in my flat and started singing the verse to me, a cappella on his own and I just started playing the piano to it almost straight away. Um and my my main function was to try and play something very simple and then I wrote that melody that that goes into the chorus, the chorus
melody and um and it was it didn't take very long that song. I mean not least because there is no bridge in that song. There's no middle eight. Um and so the lyrics actually are pretty short. Uh I think that's one of its Good points. It's it's very to the point, yeah. I mean obviously there's an instrumental midlay and the instrumental
middle eight is very, very powerful and very, very important. Um and when you see him live, that bit's one of the biggest part of the show, you know, that that explosive middle eight thing and Something that annoys me about a lot of modern songwriting is
all the instrumental sections have been taken out. Mm-hmm. And to me, instrumental sections like guitar solos or drum breaks or whatever it is are incredibly important. And uh I don't think there's enough of it now. I think it's just wall to wall singing and it's Makes me feel sick.
Yeah.
To be honest, when it's wall to wall singing.
¶ Guiding Artists and Preparation
Wel, we both very much enjoyed the Secrets of the Pop Song TV series that was out on BBC Two last year. Feeding into what Brian was asking you before, we could see in that show how you gently guide artists towards the ideas that you think are working, or how you sort of focus their attention on the task at hand.
I try.
Yeah, I mean have you got do you think a heightened sensitivity to the interpersonal aspects of doing that?
I probably have Yeah, I've been doing it a long time and I think I have an insight into what it's like to be an artist'cause I was an artist with my own band. It wasn't success, but you know, I was an artist. I did promo. And when I was with Robbie we had five years
you know, I did all the promotion with him pretty much. Pretty much all of it. And uh did all the tours, every single gig. So me and him were sort of in a we were a we were a band really. Uh and so when I meet artists now Like Rufus, for example, Rufus Wainwright um you know, when he he he came to my studio the day after his concert at the Albert Hall, which was a solo concert, just him and a piano.
And I so I knew he was gonna be tired, you know. And so I was I was quite gentle with him. Um and I knew that maybe that could be tricky, that he was tired, and therefore I definitely made sure I was prepared with some ideas and uh a l you know, a title, the World War Three thing and um you know, I I th I think it pays to be prepared. You know, this is what I say to a lot of young songwriters is
make sure you Google someone who you're going to work with. Even if they're a new artist who's relatively unknown, you will still find something on YouTube of them, I'm sure, if they're gigging about, you know, And I think it's good to have a look at it and be prepared for this person that's coming in your in in the room and and try and think what would be a good thing for them to do, you know, stylistically and What what should they say, you know?'Cause it's not random, uh, these things.
It's on the Digi album, yeah, it's on the digital version and when I last looked at iTunes it was his third most popular song which was quite nice because It's not on the physical one, but that's because of Mark Ronson did the whole out his album as a soul producer and I don't know. And I I produced the one I did but um Yeah, it's cool. I mean I'm really fond of that song. And I'm I'm still not sure about the lyric.
Cool.
But hey, Rupert Swainright is a is a one off.
¶ Songwriting Style: Piano vs. Guitar
Um, many of your songs have very robust chord sequences that sound like they were written at the piano. D do you write different kinds of songs depending on what instruments you use?
Yeah, now I do, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they are robust. I'm a bit of a baster on the piano. I hit it quite hard. I like that sort of. Uh I'm a huge fan of Freddie Mercury and I mean who isn't? But I mean I'm particularly a fan of his piano playing actually. Mm-hmm. Very very robust, very um strong and I I'm I'm always trying to find chord sequences that aren't the typical C G A minor F thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but um I'm trying to find little twists that are
different from the sort of typical formulas that seem to dominate the world at the minute. Whether I succeed in that is another thing. And and yeah, when I play guitar, the songs tend to be a bit more um folksy, I suppose. Um like a song like Strong, for example, is written on the guitar. Um so the songs are a little bit more predictable as a result. I think I think I'm a bit more unique on the piano maybe, if I'm being hard on myself.
So, would the song like London Skies be something that's written at the guitar, it's got that kind of folky kind of feel?
I think it was, yeah. Yeah, gee, I'm I'm glad you I love that song. Um yeah, I think well, you know, Jamie Cullen plays guitar as well. Right and and he's a good guitarist. And uh yeah, and I think we we discussed, you know Trying to write a London song, which does come up now and again, you know,'cause there aren't that many of them. And in fact it was on a compilation the other day, Time Out did a compilation for of London songs.
ac mae'n ymwneud â'r hyn sy'n cael ei wneud. Rydw i'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi'n dwi Uh and uh so that's pretty cool. And it comes back to that concept thing, you know, that we actually sat down and let's try and write a song with London in the title you know. Uh that was the way we started that session. And sometimes I think it's okay to be that sort of calculating about it. Why not?
¶ Technology and Collaboration in Songwriting
Yeah.
Um, you mentioned earlier on starting a song from a loop. We know that you've got a really lovely recording studio down there in London. Is there a temptation to start the writing process with the technology a lot of the times? Is that something that you do or are you are you mainly someone who separates those processes and starts with a guitar or whatever?
It depends to be honest with you. Um I mean yesterday I was writing a song for Cara Emerald and uh that started with a sample no not s well a a s yeah, a sample of a seventy-eight French record from like nineteen twenty-five. Caras producers had sampled this seventy-eight. A beautiful record accordion and little string orchestra, really beautiful music. And and and we chopped it up.
And we started it was like a tango basically and then he put a sort of quite a straight sort of M and M type beat on top and that's how we started it. Uh,'cause it was so inspiring the chords and I mean, they're probably gonna take it off at the end, so there isn't a publishing concern, but um And that was a fun way of starting a song, but often I just start with the piano. It it depends on it depends on the artist. It depends on
what the energy of the person is. If I if I perceive that someone's got quite low energy, I will maybe put a big drum beat loud and and and jam with that. And if somebody's good at improvising, I'm you know, not everybody is good at just jamming a song. Um that's not everybody's talent. Um like Robbie for example doesn't really like jamming. He he wants to sit down
and start at the top of the page and work his way to the end of the page, you know, very sort of methodically. Um whereas somebody like uh Beverly Knight, for example, she will jam for hours and, you know completely normal to her to do that. So it depends who it is.
So are you often making the final records at Sleeper Sounds for the artists you write with, or is there still a kind of demo stage that's important?
Um, it depends. I I suppose at the moment,'cause I'm at a point now where I like working with young producers who I've been working with Casey B for example and her producer's guy called DJ Genius His real name is Gordon. Anyway, um he's a very good producer. He he produced her first album. And so it's been me, Katie and him. And that's been really good fun for me just working on the chords and the top line and contributing a little bit on the words, although Katie does most of that, but
That's exciting for me because the sort of tracks that DJ Genius does that it's not something I could ever do. I just I don't really go well, I do go to nightclubs occasionally but, you know, I'm not like a regular he's a DJ, he goes all the time, you know, so he's used to hearing what fifteen year olds are into, you know.
But having said that, you know, I I do produce things uh fairly regularly, but you know, maybe sort of twenty songs, one out of twenty songs I might produce, something like that. A lot of them uh demos and then I will give the sessions to the artist and then Whoever produces it then can use what I did, I don't mind, as long as I get some sort of credit, like maybe a additional production or something like that, you know. I'm quite relaxed about that sort of stuff.
¶ Personal Projects and Creative Exploration
Right. Well speaking of stretching out into different types of music, um, we also wanted to ask about the Isis project and songs for a boy as well. They both seem like important personal projects for you. They seem to move into a slightly more experimental direction for you as a composer. And we know that they came at particular times in your life as well, like when you got engaged and after the birth of your first daughter, I think.
Well the ISIS project was just a incr uh a a reaction really to sort of the break with Robbie and having a lot more time to just be indulgent, I suppose. So I mean I was working with lots of other people but I did have quite a lot of time for the first time in five years. So and I guess it was a stretching out and a It's quite an indulgent record. Um I mean I I mean I love that record. Um and I've done an album now for my son, uh Marley. That's why it's Songs for a Boy and uh
My challenge at the moment is trying to find the right voice to sing on it. So I've been trying out different singers on that album, which is quite um frustrating to be honest. But uh I still haven't.
I'm still looking.
And you said that the Isis Project is a song cycle and it was conceptualised around this passage from childhood to old age. Um are there any challenges compositionally in trying to put something like that across when you're writing?
Uh yeah, I I suppose there were. But but luckily for me, because I worked with Karen Ann who did all the French lyrics, she took care of the concept, to be honest. Right. So As long as the music reflected the feelings she was trying to get over and the story it was
and uh so she would contribute to the tracks and, you know, she's uh a bit of a style icon to be honest. So she would play me cool stuff. So it was quite an education for me working on the album. So I discovered Serge Garnsburg, for example, who
I hadn't really fully appreciated him till then. I mean, he's now one of my absolute top ten. He's it'd be in my Desert Island is for sure one of his strikes. You know, sometimes you do a project and you think at the time, oh well, no one's gonna buy this it doesn't really it's just for fun and but you actually learn an enormous amount from doing projects that aren't necessarily about having hits.
You might learn more from those projects than the ones where you're just trying to write a hit song, which is a is a whole different way of thinking and working, to be honest.
¶ The Orgasmatron: Nurturing New Talent
So you don't think of the pop stuff as funding your life as an avant garde composer or anything like that?
Um well yeah, sort of. Um not that I see myself being avant garde in the least. Um but I'm getting to a point in my career now where I do want to try and express myself in a way that isn't necessarily trying to be for the consumption of a sort of voracious twelve year old, you know. Uh Although there's nothing wrong with people who tryna wanna write songs for Capitol Radio or but for me
I also want to do other things now and I'm always looking for new projects. And that's why I have a music nut in London called the Orgasmotron which I I I curate that and it's been going for a couple of years now and I you know I hope I really help young talent by putting them on and writing about them and and I'm sort of developing a couple of new artists in London at the moment and uh you know, it's it's not easy because the music business is extremely
challenge
uh right now, but I do like developing something from nothing.
You've also said you'd like to write a ballet for your youngest daughter. You obviously take a great deal of inspiration from your family. D do they inspire you to focus on saying the things you want to say through music?
Uh yeah I do get a lot of inspiration from them for sure. Um they push you along because you sort of think, well how when you go, how are they gonna look back at my career and sort of I want them to be proud of my catalogue and you know, and and not just the pot catalogue but
the whole catalogue and sort of get stuff from it and think, well daddy was interesting and not just uh, you know, uh jobbing songwriter. Not there's anything wrong with that, but I think there's more to life than just trying to write a hit every day, to be honest.
Absolutely. And would you say that the Orgasmatron is another way that you're stretching out creatively?'Cause I mean, although you're known for you know, these huge mainstream hits, that night actually curated by you features some really alternative interesting stuff, doesn't it?
It does. Um, yeah, well I'm I I really like going to see you know, we might have like a beatboxer. We had a guy called Faith S Fx on who ended up touring with Plan B actually. But um so there'd be him and then there'd be a string quartet playing Vivaldi And then there'd be a band, um and then there would be, you know, a DJ. I mean, the next Orgasmatron, which is next Thursday, I've got a belly dancer, for example. I love Turkish music, and I love belly dancing. So I quite like that mix.
And I'm now talking to Sky about it being televised, which may be fun, as long as they can um make it nice and messy. I don't want to do a a clean show. I want to do something that's genuinely live and if something goes wrong they don't edit it out, you know. It's just a bit of a lovely mess, you know. That's how I'd like to do it. I don't know if they're gonna let me do that, but we'll see.
And we're guessing from the fact it's called Orgasmatron and also your studio is called Sleeper Sounds, uh that you're something of a Woody Allen fan, would that be right?
Woody Allen fanatic, yes. He was also in Barbarella, which is one of my favourite films. But anyway, yeah, Woody it mainly Woody Allen, yeah. And um this the studio was called the Orgasmaton for years and my business was called that, but we ended up changing the name because The Americans put up a firewall against the word orgasmotron which is just pathetic but my manager found it difficult to communicate with the Americans if I was using orgasmodron as as an email address.
And we're also getting a lot of junk mail as well.
¶ Kylie Minogue and Sampling in Hits
Your collaboration with Kylie Minogue was one. Um Your Disco Needs You Oh yeah. Was the particular example. Do you remember how that one came about? The opening fanfare is quite interesting. It's kind of got a village people kind of quality to it.
Yeah. Well I wrote that with Robbie, me, Robbie and her three of us together. And uh, you know, it was just uh yeah, we're definitely trying to write. a disco anthem, which me and Rob were quite we actually wrote another song called Disco Delilah, which was for Tom Jones and so w which never got released sadly, but it's it's an awesome track but um and so we were always trying to write
disco anthems and that's what ri what DJ is as well. But your disco Niji was yeah, to very tongue in cheek. It's probably one of the campest things we ever wrote and it made her laugh a lot. Um so the whole session really was just trying to make her laugh, to be honest, which it did and um tried to make it as ridiculous as possible. I mean the record is so over the top.
But um sadly they didn't release it as a single here, but they did in Germany and I think it was I think I think it was pretty big in Germany. I think it might have been number one in Germany. Um they loved the sort of Teutonic nature of it, you know, and the the fact that it was
so over the top. They would they they embraced it but but yeah, I think they thought that it wasn't cool, you know, the late Parlophone thought it wasn't you know, maybe it was a backward step for her but But no, I really enjoyed working with Carly Renault very much and uh she's a lovely lady in uh Again has that sense of humor thing. She doesn't take herself too seriously. She still takes risks. Mm-hmm. Which is cool, you know.
And uh another Robbie song, Millennium, is notable because it samples John Barry's theme from You Only Live Twice. Whose idea was that to use that?
Um it was Robbie's idea. Um so we did it and put a beat on it and that's how we started writing that song, basically. Uh so I have to give him the credit for that. Uh And recently I I sampled another John Berry track. Do you know the Persuaders theme? Mm. Yeah, I've written a song using that which was pretty uh lucky c got permission to use the that whole theme actually. The whole track is that theme with the same melody with with new words.
But I still love doing that. I I find immense uh inspiration from other people's work. I don't see it as stealing, you know, because obviously with Millennium we had to take quite a hit with the publishing. Uh I can't really remember what the split is, but I know it's not a very pretty split.
¶ Future Directions and Creative Selection
So after all your success, what's your main focus now? Do you work on stuff that's sent to you from labels? Or are you actively seeking out particular things you'd like to work on?
Uh, you know I do get sent stuff and uh I'm actively looking for a singer for Songs for a Boy. Uh I'm actively looking for new people to work with all the time. Um that's one of the reasons I do my music night is to look at new people and see them on the stage and go, do I wanna work with them and ask my friends, what do you think of this band? you know, or solo singer or whatever. Um and at the same time I'm also uh working with young producers, which is
Working with TMS next week, for example, which um I don't know if you know them. Do you know that?
I don't actually know.
Nope. They've done a lot of urban stuff, uh they've done uh Tinshi Strider and stuff like that. Stuff that I couldn't do on my own, no way. I just it would just sound like rubbish if I tried to do it. challenge me to not be take me out of my comfort zone, you know. I I'm very aware that you can get a bit uh lazy as you get older and uh I don't work the hours that I did when I was in my twenties and thirties now. Um
But I still tr I still like to think that uh when I am working I'm very focused. I I I I you know, I I try my hardest.
So you're a bit more selective about what you take on these days then?
Um I th I'd like to think I've always been pretty selective.
That was not a backhanded insult.
W as songwriters uh you know, as a songwriter y you unfortunately f and it's pretty much the same For I don't know about everyone, maybe not Dr. Luke, but uh you you're gonna have some element of wastage, you know, you if you write twenty songs, maybe only one has value. And and that's just how it is.
Okay, I think that wraps it up for us.
Cool. Thank you so much for doing that.
It's a pleasure. Bye.
Okay, brilliant.
Thanks very much.
Thanks guy.
拜拜
¶ Hosts' Reflections on Guy's Wisdom
Okay, so that was our chat with Guy Chambers who was talking to us from his studio in North London. And Simon, I don't know about you, but I found that a very insightful forty-five minutes or so.
Rydyn ni'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny. Yeah, I mean I loved what he said about writing songs based on another loop or maybe a sample from an existing song and then once you've built it up to a certain point take out the original sample because you obviously probably won't be allowed to use that. But by then you've built up something entirely new.
a'r hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny'n hynny
Very good advice. I also like his comments on instrumental sections in pop songs, i.e. there aren't enough of them. Yeah. Um, you know, it's nice to hear something else take the melody rather than it just be wall to wall vocals.
Probably comes from his experience as an arranger, I suppose.
I was just about to say that, you preempted me.
And you can hear it in songs like Angels, you know, the emotional release of say the slag guitar break or something like that.
Exactly.
Brilliant, okay. Well thanks to Guy. Thanks also to Fran and Luke who helped set that up, and we will be back soon with another episode.
And thank you for letting us enter.
🎵 Music
Or you can't do it. Just said that.