¶ Emeli Sandé: Career Overview
🎵 Music
Hello and a very warm welcome to episode 108 of So the Jacker on Songwriting. This is Simon, here as always with Brian, and joining us today is a Scottish singer-songwriter who also happens to be one of the most successful British solo artists of the last decade.
Earlier this year she was named Best British Female Solo Artist at the Brit Awards for the second time, yet another addition to a mantelpiece that also boasts two Ivanovellos and four Mobos. Oh, and she's a member of the Order of the British Empire as well. We're delighted to welcome the supremely talented Emily Sande to the show.
That's Emily Sande MBE to you, you peasant.
I'm humbly tugging my forelock as we speak.
We were lucky enough to meet with Emily at her bijou East London studio on a crisp autumn day back in early October, just after the release of her single Starlight and just prior to her UK arena tour. As we record this, her brand new six-track EP Kingdom Coming was released just a few weeks ago. She's a very busy woman and it was really generous of her to make the time for us. You can hear our chat in a couple of minutes, but first some background info.
Our guest was born Adele Sande in Sunderland in nineteen eighty seven. Emily is her middle name. Her family moved to Scotland when she was four, and she grew up in the small town of Alford just outside Aberdeen. Her home was a musical environment, her dad was a school choir master and encouraged her to sing. She also took piano lessons and was already writing songs before she reached her teens.
Such was her obvious ability that she was first offered the record deal when she was just sixteen, but decided against it in favour of entering further education.
She went on to study medicine and neuroscience at Glasgow University, but continued writing and performing her own material. Word continued to spread about her talents and she eventually signed a publishing deal with EMI in two thousand nine. Around the same time she met producer and songwriter Shahee Khan, aka Naughty Boy, at a London showcase, and an extremely fruitful creative partnership blossomed.
In fact, some of the first songs they came up with ended up on Emily's debut album, didn't they?
Yeah, I think um Heaven and Daddy were probably two of them. Yeah.
Yeah, and uh another track they penned together was Diamond Rings for Chipmunk, on which Emily guested on vocals, and that was a top ten hit in two thousand and nine.
That track.
Me too, yeah. And they also wrote for the likes of Professor Green, Cheryl Cole, Wiley, Leona Lewis, and Susan Boyle.
Emily signed to Virgin in twenty ten, releasing her first solo single Daddy that year. However, it was her late twenty eleven collaboration with Professor Green on his number one hit single Read All About It that really thrust her into the limelight.
Emily's acclaimed debut album, our version of events, followed a few months later in february twenty twelve and was an instant smash, reaching number one in the UK album chart and yielding one of the biggest selling singles of the year in the anthemic next to me.
She also sang at the opening and closing ceremonies of the twenty twelve London Olympics and was among the performers at the White House when Carol King received the Library of Congress Gershwin Medal in early twenty thirteen.
So all in all it was a pretty low key 18 months then.
She couldn't get arrested.
Emily's second album, Long Live the Angels, arrived in november twenty sixteen and more than matched the quality of the first, boasting hit singles like Hertz and Breathing Underwater, among a very strong collection of songs, a number of which were actually inspired by our guest's Zambian Heritage.
You can hear selected tracks from both of Emily's long players, along with cuts from the new Kingdom Coming EP. If you check out our Spotify playlist for this episode, head over to Sodajeker.com slash podcast and you'll find a link on Emily's page.
We'll also post it at Facebook.com slash Soda Jerker and twitter.com slash Soda Jerker where you can get in touch with your feedback, your guest suggestions and any nauseatingly self-indulgent think pieces.
Stay up to date with our guests' latest activities at emily sande dot com, facebook com slash emily sande and twitter.com slash emily sanday. Just before we speak to Emily, we'd like to thank Katarina from Virgin for the second episode in a row, for her help in setting up the interview, and for kindly buying us a cuppa at the cafe round the corner from the studio.
Okay, let's get to it. Here's our chat with the marvellous.
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¶ Starlight: Creating an Uplifting Track
Okay, Emily, thank you for joining us on the podcast.
Thank you.
Starlight has been our jam this week.
Yeah.
Rydyn ni'n amlwg yn ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud.
Uh, Starlight was a song that I wrote in um LA and I was out there just by myself and I went there I was there for about two months, I think, and I was working with a producer called Elangelo. I think he's you know, he's brilliant, but we'd never worked together before. But I was a big fan of his work from the early weekend um mixtape House of Balloons. Mm-hmm. So I went there and he just he lived in Laurel Canyon. So everyone had told me the history of this place, like the old rockers and
Um that Joni Mitchell had been up there. So immediately I just said, I have to get an Airbnb up there. So um I moved up there. Well, I I lived there for a while just'cause I really want to take in that energy and the nostalgia of it. You can really feel it. So he lived on like this cool part of there and he he'd converted the garage into a studio. And his studio had this amazing soft carpet and it was all
It just set up cool. He had his decks over there and the vibe of the studio was just really inspiring as soon as I stepped in and we really connected as people. So he just started playing the the beat to it and I just immediately without anything on it, it was a dance record. It just made you feel good and uplifted. So really it was um dancing around, enjoying the carpet experience and enjoying being in Laurel Canyon and he had a mic set up um in the room.
So um I decided, Oh, can I put this idea down? And just being able to capture your initial thoughts I think is the best way to get the best melodies and just capture the true inspiration of the song. So uh yeah, I just put I was like, No I must tell I and in the cans he'd he'd made it just so what you heard back of your voice was so pristine and sounded like a record already.
So I just I love it when people pay attention to sound. You know, the sound a singer is hearing back really influences your performance and how much you want to put the idea down. So I was like, you know, stalli and then all these different ideas kept coming and then in the And then we just kind of pasted the best melodies together and um it was just so strong. Like every part of it just felt like a really strong melody. And from there I just kind of
started to try to get into the concept of it. You know, what does this melody make me feel? And um how can we keep it simple but also tell a story.
¶ Writing Upbeat and Positive Songs
I was gonna say it's it's not only sort of uplifted musically but it's quite a positive song lyrically. Yeah. As well. Which I think we could all kind of use these days. Um And a lot of people kind of talk about how they find it easier to write the the kind of moody ballads. Do you find it a challenge to write a song that's both up tempo and uplifting?
Yeah, it was definitely a challenge for me, but I try and reflect what's going on in my life and how I'm feeling. Um, and sometimes it can be easy to go to the same chords on a piano and really dig deep emotionally when it's, you know, minor or something that's a bit more um emotive melodically. But it was a big lesson for me really going on tour and asking fans
or just speaking to fans and hearing about what the songs meant to them. So some songs where I might be like, Oh, it was a bit too happy or it didn't speak to people as much as something that's bit deeper. When someone tells you
oh, next to me meant this to me and I was going through such a difficult time in my life, but hearing this music was so uplifting. Kinda put me on this mission to really make music that really instilled confidence in people and really was uplifting because everything that's going on can really get people down and can really
seriously traumatise people. You know, maybe we shouldn't all be able to see these horrific events all the time, every day. And I think the psychological effect of that can be quite uh scary. And, you know, sorry to get so serious about it, but it I just feel like it's a very um it's a hard time now to stay happy and to feel good and to feel positive and to also feel confident you can make a change when you see so much
disaster, it can be quite um disheartening. So I really wanted to to be on a mission to kind of counteract that and bring with full force a message of love and
just you know, confidence. No matter what you look like, how many likes you get on whatever site, it's just about you're human and you deserve to feel good and you operate better when you feel good and feel happy. So even though I did find it challenging before, I've really I've really enjoyed seeing people's reaction from more positive sounding songs.
¶ Acoustic Versions and Song Origins
And there's an acoustic version of Starlight, isn't there, on the EP?
Yeah.
Yes. I was wondering is that important to you that a song can be kind of stripped down and maybe just played on a guitar, that kind of thing?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think when you can still touch somebody with a song or the song still stands strong without all the instrumentation and production, as fun as that is, I think then you have something that you know, will live longer than um fashions in sound and production. So it's very important to me that I can sing something and it um it resonates with people in in any form.
Mm. And when you do write, um, are you typically sat at a piano or will you come up with stuff at all kinds of inopportune moments?
Yeah, usually I mean to be honest, um, it's usually when I hear instrumentals, um,'cause they really set a mood and tell a story before you've begun the top line. So it kind of pulls you into a world where I just feel it gets my imagination going so much. So I see different scenarios or people or different emotions from my past may come up.
So I find that interesting but then it's a lot more pure sometimes when you're on the piano'cause it's fully your expression. You know, I don't play the piano the same as um, my favourite pianist. So even though they can play a thousand times better than me, it's not their identity and how it's being played. So sometimes I really enjoy being able to have like be in control of the harmonies, the chords and the top line and you can really be fully overseeing how it's all interlinking.
Right. I was gonna say'cause a song like Clown sounds to me just so kind of well formed. I don't know if that emerges from the fact that it's you and the chords and you're kind of deciding exactly how that's gonna flow. It sounds so complete.
Yeah, I mean when we wrote Clown, um, I mean I wrote it there was um an incredible musician called Grant Mitchell. And um we were upstairs and I had the basic chords but then he sat down and he was playing and it was just so great to have someone to bounce ideas off of and I think that's when something becomes quite solid because you've really
you've had a b a buffer, I guess. Sometimes you can take things off on a tangent too much and someone it's like, Oh, I don't really relate when you say that And even if they're just in the other side of the room doing something else, having somebody to bounce off and give you a bit more perspective I think really round songs together.
Um so I mean we wrote it so long ago but it felt like he was like, Okay, I think you should stop the verse there and don't go on another time. So you make everything very concise and that was his musical maturity and knowledge that I learnt so much from in writing that song with him.
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¶ Kingdom Coming: Defiance in Lyrics
And how will you typically capture the germ of an idea? Are are you a a voice memo person or?
Yeah. A very disorganized voice from a person. I keep you know, every time I get I lose a phone, I get a new one and then I say this time I'm gonna name everything and date it, which producer I was working with, blah blah blah. But there's just there's like thousands of voice members that one day I hope I can just
sit in a room for like a week or so and go through everything. But yeah, voice memos all the time, that's it really. If I catch a vibe on piano, you just never know when it's gonna happen. So yeah, voice memo I found very helpful.
I wanted to ask about Kingdom Coming from the new EP, which I thought was a really powerful song and it's so direct, isn't it?
Yeah.
I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about how you put that together and specifically the chorus.
Yeah. Kingdom Coming is... I get you know, I'm a big fan of hip hop and rap and I love the how immediate the lyric is and how nothing can be wasted. Like they're using every bar to say something. I mean, the great lyricist that I look up to. So, um, I feel like I've definitely been influenced by by that over the past few years pretty heavily. So I feel like absorbing that but then m matching with melody was what probably inspired the style of Kingdom Coming. And um
Yeah, I guess it was just capturing an emotion and certain things I feel like you can't be polite about. And I really wanted to to speak for my my parents, my family, or people that are just up against it and Um, I don't usually swear it in day to day life. And I was really quite no I don't know if my mum's gonna really ever like this song properly. I tried other words, like I tried, you know, F that Daddy.
or uh we tried different things but it didn't have the weight and it it wasn't saying what I meant. You know, I feel like when I do swear, people really know I mean it. I'm really pissed off if like if I'm swearing. So Sometimes you have to learn to express different emotions in in melody. And it can't always be you're in love or you're sad because you're not in love or you're there's so many different other things going on in your life and learning how to
to turn that into music is I feel the biggest challenge for me. Um, so I guess this was I don't know if it was uh anger, but it was definitely um defiance. Defiance and not a real true love. Like Like can I swear in this? Like, fuck that daddy. Like if I ever said that to my dad, obviously he'd be shocked. But the only way I could justify it is if, you know, I don't like how you're being treated by this
situation and I want better for you as you've always wanted better for me. Now it's my turn to really be responsible and and try and fight for you. So I feel like it's a fighting song and I I just really hope that it speaks to people of all walks of life.
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¶ Collaborations and Creative Risks
And um there's several collaborations on the EP and we're wondering, do those collaborations kind of encourage you to take risks in the way you put together certain songs?
Yeah, kind of. I mean definitely being around um different types of artists and especially lyricists and rappers, it's just it does encourage you to be brave and just to say what you really mean and show yourself as you are. And, you know, with rap you really can't hide behind anything. You have to put it down raw and it's like speaking to somebody. So, you know, if you're having a conversation with a listener, you don't want to be holding back or hiding. So
definitely, you know, Ratch Gigs, Davies they're lyricist that I just rate so highly and I think they really take care with words and there's a precision to what they're saying and I really respect that. So um definitely they They encouraged me to come as strong as I could lyrically and um just by watching what they're doing in their careers has inspired me to be as bold as I can be.
Deep really leapt out to me as well from the uh EP. I love the approach with the organ and stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah. Is that you writing a complete track on your own or is that also a a collaboration?
Yeah, that was a collaboration with like one of the coolest producers in the UK. He's called uh Shacavelli. And I met him through Naughty Boy. And um he's just got this really like cool, quirky book. hip style. It's like he's just super cool and his music taste is always on point. And remember he played me that beat and it was just the harp immediately caught me as something so different and the way he
Yeah, the bass and the organ. He put old school with new school and just made it a little bit, I don't know, the thing he does. So um yeah, I love deep and I love how it came out. Um, yeah, I hope people enjoy that.
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¶ Naughty Boy: Trust and Spontaneity
Rydwch chi'n gweithio Naughty Boy? Yr yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw?
Naughty Boy, yeah, definitely. I mean I I've learnt so much from him and I've gained so much confidence just being being his friend for one and being around him and seeing his process and that balance between being a a kind person which he is, but also being business savvy and not being taken for a ride. And so I feel like I've really learnt a lot from his character.
But um as a collaborator, yeah. We just we get along so well. Like when you can fight with someone and then like be friends a couple of weeks later, it's yeah, a couple, two, three weeks later. Um but that's the type of person you wanna write a song with, really, because you're going to a very deep personal place in your music and you want to trust them as you would a family member and you want to really be able to
open up and try different things and make something that sounds really shit one day and then know that they have faith in what you're going to do the next day. So Shah's always just had a true faith in me that I felt from the beginning. He's always stood up for me and And he was the first person that really said, You don't need to be in with writers, like you should be doing this yourself. So um yeah, I just think he's he's a great guy and he really spots talent and knows how to nurture it.
And how does a typical session work between you two? Would he be at a computer or do you sit at a keyboard or piano? What typically happens?
Uh with Sha. Um that's the thing I love about him. He's so everything's always spontaneous. You never know what next session's gonna be like. But usually I um I've put my piano in his studio so sometimes I'll sit down and put some chords and be like, Yeah, yeah, put that down and that's the great thing about him. Things that I would forget or just think, Oh, it's nothing. He'll be like, What? Like, come on, like let's record it and he'll give you that push you need.
So um yeah, usually sometimes piano or sometimes it'll be like, Oh, I made this sick beat last night and like me and he'll tell you the whole story of the track, like me and Shaq were up last night and you'll never guess who came through and then like
something like supernatural always happens in the studio and then like this angel came and I saw this number and that means that and everything's it's like stepping into a magical world and because I've got such a big imagination it's like we can be big kids together all the time. So um just capturing our imagination and putting it into songs I think is what makes it such a pleasure to work with him and always exciting.
¶ Wonder and Diamond Rings Creation
We really like the song uh Wonder.
Oh yeah.
Um it's a really satisfying tune, especially the chorus. We wondered who kinda did what on that one, do you remember?
Um one day I had been at home, I think, just playing the that riff like dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. And I think maybe I had the wonder part and then again it was just showing him and something that could have stayed as a voice memo for the rest of my life. Um he was like, Yeah, let's record that. So I put it in the piano and then he started building like a tribal beat around it.
And um yeah, it was great. And just stacking the harmonies on the chorus really brought it to life and we were so excited about it. We really wanted our Air and R to come down and hear it immediately and it's just such a sunshine song.
Yeah, it's another uplifting one that one, isn't it?
Yeah.
Massive kind of positive chorus.
Yeah, exactly.
🎵 Music
And Diamond Rings is obviously another one that you both worked on. Yeah. Um the hook that you sing on that, it's so unusual melodically, isn't it? It's so so weird.
Did you Uh yeah, it's it's I was in uh'cause I was studying up in Glasgow when I'd met Shah uh Naughty Boy. Um, I remember I was it was a weekend and I was coming back and forth from London to Glasgow. So I was hoovering up, like trying to clean my room and I'd put on some of the beats he'd sent me.
So I I don't know where the melod I feel like it came from on the track there was like a horn in it or something that was like boom bound boom boom. So I was like so I kinda took that and just extended it. I was like I have been talking about my new diamond it is quite unusual when I think about it, but Um yeah, then he sent it and it it just became what it was.
And you swear in that one as well.
Yeah, I've I've been bad from the beginning. If you look back at the signs.
🎵 Music
Hey ha ha.
And when you contribute to a track as a featured artist like um like on Let Go with Tiny Temper, are you kind of expected to contribute as a writer and come up with like the top line and and the lyric usually?
Um I'm trying to remember how we did that one. Um I think sometimes, yeah. Um I'll just always if I like a beat, I'll kinda get into it and again try and interpret the mood and the lyric and melody. And yeah, I think I just wrote that hook and we sent it back and he really liked it and we took it from there really.
¶ Working with Alicia Keys
One of our other guests we had on the podcast not long back was Alicia Keys, and which we know you've worked with
Yeah.
bit and we really enjoyed meeting her didn't we? Um well there was brand new me wasn't there which was on her album and then and then hope was on your Yeah. Your album. I'm just wondering really how that collaboration works'cause you're both vocalists, both keyboard players. You know, do you end up at the end of the day sort of putting each other in a headlock or anything?
No. Um she's definitely a lot stronger. So I think I'm better just to chill out on that one. Um I I went there as a writer, you know, because I'd written before being signed as an artist, I still kind of sometimes you can kind of dip in an app. And if you're a writer, you're just there purely to kind of
serve what they want for their album or what they're looking for because it's their vision essentially. Um so I really just went there. One, as a fan, you know, I've been a fan of her since I was thirteen. And then, yeah, just as a writer and kind of I really enjoy working with women because
I just like being able to help someone express what they're feeling and just find the right words to really nail what they're going through. So it's always a great process working with women because you can speak on a very emotional level and
She's just so intelligent, such a brilliant player and really knew what she was looking for. So it kind of just we would have conversations and then I'd say, Hey, I've got these chords or she'd say, Hey, I've got this idea. What do you think? Could we try this? And there was really no ego in the room and I think that's what made it a really um free flowing experience and
There's one song that we did called One O One and that's my favourite song that we did. That was a really cool it was really late at night and I was on the Nords in her room and just doing little uh chord changes and we just got talking about this whole concept and it was It was awesome.
And you kind of sort of kindred spirits in how your careers have developed as well, aren't you? You know, you're both kind of signed young, but it wasn't quite the right thing for you, so you took time out to kind of develop your craft. Mm-hmm. It's kind of an interesting
I mean, it was so... She was so open and generous with her advice from me and um it was just lovely to see an intelligent woman um that hasn't sold out on anything that's has so much dignity and respect and a real um devotion to music. So it was a dream for me to go there and it was a perfect thing for me to do at the beginning of my career just to really stay grounded and hopefully as um humble.
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¶ Next To Me's Rapid Success
And you mentioned next to me before, we just have to ask about that one'cause it's just such a mega smack. Is that something that would evolve really quickly? Would you work on that and finish it within a day? Or do most of the songs that have been very successful, do they take a bit more time than that?
I mean, I think the writing of it usually comes um like for Next to Me it was quite quick. Um, I was with Crazen Hoax. I was round at their house and That came really quickly I think. I mean at least the chorus next to me and then I think the ooh ooh part got added a bit later and
I don't remember the writing of that one taking that long. It's just once something's been decided, this is gonna be a single. I think it's the process then of getting it polished and ready and all the technical parts that kind of make it take so long and and also the pressure to get it perfect because you know people are really gonna hear this one. But uh no, writing it was quite quick actually.
And is it ever kinda difficult to get a realistic picture of whether a song is is any good? You know, I assume it's pretty clear when you've got something like next to me in the bag.
Well, I for me it's not very'cause I love it. Like I love making music and they're it's like your children almost. You just you just love them all. Um so next to me was I don't know. I I thought, yeah, cool, it was a great session and I love working with crazen hoax and let's just see. But it was my um A and R at Virgin that said, Hey, what's this song you just did? and
And he's like not always excited. Let's put it that way. It takes a lot to to get him excited about an idea or music, but when he knows it's the right thing, you'll see him come to life and definitely was next to me that was that and I guess that's why he's so good at his job.
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¶ Early Songwriting and Family Influence
I guess you've been writing songs for quite a long time though, haven't you? I mean I think you were what, seven or eight or something when you wrote your first?
Yeah. I used to do little like like um ideas in my book and I think'cause I'd been introduced to a lot of female writers by my dad, um, like Nina Simone and Mariah I knew was always writing and Joni Mitchell and it wasn't really an option not to write'cause I love to sing but I thought, God, how empowering and it's like this new little magic thing I had. So yeah, when I was a kid I just loved it and um it was really exciting for me to write songs.
Were you already playing piano at that age as well or?
No, I started piano around twelve. Right. Eleven, twelve. And I mean I always if I saw a piano I'd always try and go and play it where I could, but we didn't get one until I was about that age and that's when I could really just spend so much time just really obsessing of it, really
Uh you played clarinet as well, didn't you? I thought I read that somewhere.
Yeah, I started playing clarinet at eleven and I didn't ever really get very good at that. Right.
Um we love the way you kind of incorporated the sense of of family and ancestry on on on Tenderly in particular on the last album. Um I think that all stemmed from a a trip to Zambia, was it?
Yeah. I mean, it was a big changing point in my life. Um, going to my dad's home country. I'd been once as a baby, but this was my first time as an adult. And, you know, all my f dad's family are over there. So just really connecting, meeting my grandmother for the first time and my aunties and my cousins and we were all communicating through song. It really brought me to tears the the harmonies they have.
And some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard and it was just voices and my family around a fire at night and it was very cleansing and um it just made a lot of sense where my love for music had come.
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Oh me too. Um well not on this trip, but um I once performed at um like the Clive Davis Grammy. I think it does like a night before the Grammys. and Joni Mitchell was in the audience when I was performing and I got to go and say hello and that was really I look back in that moment think, Wow and and Quincy Jones was there and I met him and
Nights like that, I just think, wow, I can't believe I've I've sang in front of her and sang the it was an acoustic performance. I was so happy that the lyric could shine through as well. But she was just she was amazing and just seems so wise, such a great aura.
¶ Writing for Other Artists
And do you still try to carve out time to write for the pleasure of it, or is it mostly part of developing a project these days?
Um, I guess if it's in between projects,'cause right now we've just handed in the EP, so there's like a little window to write now before we start thinking about the album. But um I do get carried away with writing. So I'm trying to rein it in a bit and try and have a bit of discipline but
It's hard because you just never know when the greatest song you've ever written might pop into your head. So you kind of always have to be writing really, but I just try and finish what I'm doing as much as possible and not keep moving on to new ideas.
And you've also got that rare skill of being able to write for other people as well, haven't you? I mean, you've had songs recorded by Katy Perry and Rihanna and Susan Boyle as well. Um do you pride yourself on that ability to be able to kind of fashion something for someone else?
Yeah, I mean I love it. I mean it's always um it's always a great challenge and 'Cause often it's songs that you've written alone or just um at the piano or something and to hear their interpretation or to hear they've heard a part of it and it's meant this to them in their life. I mean it's humbling because it reminds you that the music is so much bigger than you or you having to sing it or I mean, when something's very important I think you you have to perform it. But
some songs they could fit anybody, if you know what I mean. Um well not anybody, but they can speak for certain people. So yeah, I do love doing that and I love that it's um something I can do a lot more of in the future. Because um it allows me to learn so much.
So might you have that artist in mind when you actually write, or are you saying that typically it would just be a song that you wrote that might be your own song?
Yeah, I found I have more success when it's just songs that I've kind of written. You know, I think sometimes you try to overthink things or second guess someone. unless you've really had the time to sit with them and understand their story and what they specifically want and who they are as a person. I think you have to spend so much time with someone to really
understand their energy like that. Um so usually it's songs I've done by myself, but yeah, I try and write to a spec, but I usually find it just turns out you can tell, you know, it gets a little bit robotic if I'm trying to write thinking of what they want to say without meeting them.
Rydyn ni'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n gweithio?
Um, sometimes. I mean I love big power ballads and I love when singers can just go for it. I just don't think we have enough of that left anymore. As I just used to love the big divas and You know, when I listen to Whitney I think, wow, that was an experience listening to just the purity of her voice and the power of it. So sometimes I will just like take it up a key so you can properly balance it out.
But um to be honest, not so much. Usually it's just naturally what comes and um what feels like a an honest tone to to sing it in.
¶ Read All About It Journey
I was wondering about the song Read All About It because you've got the two versions and part three. Yeah. And I was wondering, did that come into play there? You had to think about how you were going to approach the two versions of that song in some way?
Well, I don't even know about the um other versions. When we did when we did the first, um Professor Green had you know, he asked me if I wanted to be on the track and they'd sent over the chorus. I thought it was such a beautiful song and I was really just like honored to be asked to be on it. Felt like a really big song as well. And so went to sing that. And then my AR Glynn said, Oh, we really want to do like an acoustic version. Would you be up for doing that?
So I was like, Yeah, like awesome. Um so yeah, I I I wrote that after the first one and I've part two, I haven't heard yet.
It feels like a kind of a pop staple to me, that one now. I don't know if it's like an X Factor audition piece or something, but I hear that melody sort of all the time. Yeah.
Oh yeah, I love it. And it's but such a you know, I've sang that song in so many incredible places at the Olympics was like such an experience and singing that song I used to live at the top of Brick Lane and my sister would come round and we were living together at the time and we're just sitting in the kitchen and I had the piano track looping and looping and so it just came from our discussions and
you know, I would tell her a lyric, she'd be like, Yeah, keep going, keep going and just having that kind of um you know, cheerleader beside you just be like, Oh yeah, that's that's nice, second verse. Don't give up now, like keep going. So, um to have written that with my sister and then to be able to perform it around the world, so many people and
Every country we go to, that song seems to mean a lot to so many. So very grateful for Professor Green asked me to jump on it and the journey's been incredible.
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¶ Heaven and Hurts: Deep Inspirations
And there's just a a couple more songs we wanted to bring up. That's okay. Um I wanted to ask about Heaven and what inspired that one. I love the vocal and
Uh thank you. Uh Heaven that was with uh Naughty Boy. Uh originally Naughty Boy on a different track actually. And um again I think most songs come from pretty deep conversations, pretty late at night and I think, you know, we we were speaking a lot about religion and God and, you know, spirituality's such a major part of our writing process and just digging deeper into that topic really gets our juices flowing. So heaven was really about, you know,
having good intentions as a human to try and be better each day, but kind of the trappings of the world and and I just tried to personalize that and that's where heaven came from. And then upstairs is crazy and hoax. So then they heard it and then they put um the drum brake on it. And so all kind of it was F block is such a creative building that everybody added different aspects to the track. But it started from a conversation between two friends.
Quite a big um massive attack influence on the the arrangement as well, isn't it? Kind of the unfinished sympathy kind of string.
Yeah, the strings I mean, I've always loved strings and orchestras and so amazing being able to blend those two worlds and then put a story on top. And kinda give it a good old blasting vocal. So when we first kind of got that version, I just felt it really matched the city. And um yeah, I'm a big massive attack fan and Port's Head as well. So I love that that somber feeling.
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I thought we finish on um Hertz. Which I think is such an interesting song. Um your performance seems so kind of defiant on it. And then it's the arrangement with the kind of clapping sound and stuff. There's so many interesting choices on that track. Yeah. I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about making those decisions.
Yeah. I wrote that with uh Phil and Mek, who are really brilliant musicians. Phil was playing bass, we're at my house and and it just kinda came out, baby, I'm not made of stone, it hurts. But the bass was super like chilled. I mean maybe you should hear the the very original version. Very, very chilled and then we're like, wow, that sounds really cool. It's kinda funky. And then kind of forgot about it.
Then we went up to the studio to start writing and then one night it was there's an engineer there called Jake and Luke was there and we're it was me, Phil and Mac. We were having dinner. And then um I don't know, someone's had a like an app on their phone so they're playing this bass line.
And then someone started tapping the table with spoons. It was like that like that. And then we all started kinda getting into it. And then I thought, Oh, remember that song we did way back then? Let's try and put it on this and so I sang it over the top and it just sounded so powerful and
I love the vulnerability and the and the aggression all at once. You know, I think we could have left it as this funky, groovy thing and and I do love doing the acoustic version, but I felt it was a time in my life where I'd really felt I could be associative and really say what I meant and
you know, regardless of how anyone was gonna feel, be able to express myself. Um, and I think sometimes as women we feel shy to be able to just be angry sometimes and say, you know what? This really hurts. It Um, so I wanted to kind of have those two contrasting things expressed in that song.
Cool. Okay. Well thank you so much for talking to us. It's been great.
Right.
Good luck with the EP and the tour.
Thank you very much.
You must be super busy. You've got an arena tour coming up.
Yeah, pretty uh a lot going on right now.
Yeah. Well thanks for taking the time up.
Thank you.
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That was the lovely Emily Sande talking to us at her studio in London. Really nice to hear about her writing process and her relationship with the likes of Naughty Boy, wasn't it, Sai?
Yeah, fantastic. And also our former guest Alicia Keys as well. Sounds like they had a good relationship.
Definitely yeah. As I said in the interview, um I think they're really kinda kindred spirits, aren't they? So it's no surprise that they kind of work together so well in a songwriting sense. And yeah, it was just a great experience overall, really. Um Virgin really looked after us. Emily Studio's really nice, isn't it?
a lots of nice books on the shelves in there a lovely piano against the wall as well yeah
There were a couple of prince biographies, weren't there? And we we struck up a conversation about him after the interview. And she had a couple of songwriting books on the shelves as well that we also have. Uh the Zolo Songwriters on Songwriting book, which was a great inspiration for us in in starting the podcast.
Yeah, and she also had the Isle of Noises, I think, the book by Daniel Rachel, which is about British songwriters.
That's pretty indispensable that book. I've been uh revisiting that one recently.
I think she's something of a student of songwriting, so that's cool.
Aren't we all, Simon? Aren't we all?
Rydyn ni wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i
Yeah he was hilarious guy. So yeah the whole thing was just a pleasure and we hope you enjoyed listening to it as much as we did recording it.
Check out Kingdom Coming and we'll be back before you know it with episode one hundred and
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