Hey, y'all, welcome to another episode of Soccer for US. I am Bart and on this episode we are talking about the home stadiums of the US men's national team and why it's a problem that they are concentrated to a certain group of not just states, but also cities. But before we get into that conversation, I need to ask two phases of you. First, Soccer down Here, the network on which I put out my podcast, is a finalist for the Football Content Awards as a best media organization.
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Soccer for US pot. All right, now that that said, let me introduce our two guests for tonight. You know one of their voices very well. He's been a partner with me on this podcast for quite some time now. It is the greatest historian on usmn T Twitter. Thomas aka US Keeper Thomas. Good evening, He and Bart, how are you? You know? I am recovering from some refereeing this weekend, but I am great. Always fun to be able to be involved in the game.
Wow.
Sounds good. Glad to be here.
And also joining us. A new voice on the podcast is but someone who is not a stranger to having his voice not just on a podcast, but also in press conferences for US soccer. It is Lawrence Dockery from the Memphis Night to One podcast, Bluff City Media and a lot of other outlets. Lawrence, Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it that. Yes, I've made my voice heard in a press conference before it it did set the internet on Internet on fire for about two days, which was fun for the first day and by the second day I was or not from it.
Well, glad to have you on here. And as I kind of said, we are talking about US men's national teams, but just men's national team. We'll talk a little bit about the women, but we're focused on the men's national team stadium selection. So you may not know, but we are heading into October of twenty twenty four, the US men's national team has four more matches remaining, two of those at home, and to play those matches, they're returning to two stadiums, two cities, and stadiums they have played
in within the calendar year. Actually, I mean they played with these stadiums at least within the last thirteen months. Those stadiums, cities and stadiums are Austin's Q two Stadium, which is set to host its fifth men's national team match since opening in just twenty twenty one, and then Saint Louis's City Park is going to host its third match in just two years. Most people on US Soccer
Twitter recognize this as somewhat of a problem. The problem being that US men's national team fans feel that US Soccer is I don't know, not selecting abroad enough or a diverse enough array of cities and stadiums. And while we all agree that friendly confines helped teams win, familiarity
can often breed contempt. And I think it's safe to say that right now US men's national teams and women's national team fans feel that US Soccer is a bit too familiar with certain locations for their matches, and that is definitely selling resentment. Simply play US Soccer isn't letting
the nation see the national team. Thomas, I'm going to start with you, because I you have a spreadsheet that I'm looking at right now that breaks down all time locations and then you were kind enough to group it for me by decades since the turn of the century. The question, I think has to be set asked, is this a new problem that US Soccer seemingly has just you know, a handful of states and cities that they select to play matches in.
I don't think it's a new palm bar I think I think they get comfortable. I mean, if you go back to you know, two thousand to two thousand and nine, you look at you know, the states they played in the you know, and that you know, they play a lot in California and a lot in Massachusetts Foxboro specifically, and you look at their success in Massachusetts and California
during that decade. I mean they've lost they lost one match in each of those states, and they played you know, you know, one played uh twenty two matches and neiell one played sixteen matches. And so when you're losing one match in those in those you know, venues in those states, in those areas, you know, US Soccer gets.
Comfortable with that.
They say the team's comfortable, that the players are comfortable there, right, so so why not continue going there?
Right?
And so there is a pattern of that, you know, that far back, and probably that's you know, I mean, they could be even further, but that's really when things started to try to change for them and making the players comfortable, making the situation comfortable, for set up and how they roll it out.
Yeah, Lawrence, that's a good point that Thomas makes as a success maybe at certain locations. Look, since twenty twenty, Texas has hosted ten matches, Ohio has hosted six, Florida five, Kansas of Florida five, California five, and then Kansas five, Missouri four. Now I'm gonna play with the numbers a little bit there and say Missouri has host Missouri has hosted nine because let's be honest, it's Kansas City, Kansas
is basically Missouri. But they've been fairly successful, especially when you look at a lot of those choices were made with both World Cup qualifying and Nations League in mind. So you know, yes, US Soccer wants to go play in facilities that they feel they will have success. But is that really the best way to choose a friendly location which we've seen is you know, this year maybe a little bit more diverse, but still this fall it's not very diverse at all.
No, And so it's I do understand the concept of when you have a home World Cup qualifying game, you want to ensure maximum hold field advantage, which, let's be real, has historically until probably the beginning of the you know, early two thousands, when they started playing games at what is now known as Historic Crew Stadium, you know, home field advantage was not something we ever enjoyed on a
regular basis. So I do I understand the desire and perhaps the necessity of playing in places where you can guarantee home field advantage. We are in the middle of a cycle now where we don't have to worry about World Cup qualifying, we're the host nation, and yet we continue to cycle through Children's Mercy Park in Kansas City, TQL Stadium in Cincinnati, Q two Stadium in Saint Louis, and I'll bet my bottom dollar at some point next year they'll end up at Exploria Stadium in Orlando. And
this is not a knock on those venues. This is not a knock on the support the team has gotten in those venues or the results they've gotten. But as you said, this is the national team the nation. You know, that's the keyword there, and that's the key that the root word of national is nation. The national team needs
to be accessible to, maybe not the whole nation. You know, I don't think we should be playing a game in Alaska anytime soon, but you know, more people need to be able to see this team and that and that's
that should be a fundamental tenant. But especially now more than ever, that you are hosting a home World Cup in less than two years, and if you want it to be as big of a success as possible, you need to get as many different nooks and crannies and and and and small towns and mid sized cities across
the country excited for the World Cup. Because one thing, it's this is not to suggest that the World Cup will be a disaster if the US men's national team doesn't play friendly the year before in Louisville or Memphis or wherever it's the World Cup, it's going to be a success. It would take just disaster beyond comprehension to
make a World Cup not a success. But one of the things that gets talked about about the nineteen ninety four World Cup is, yes, it's still the most attended World Cup of all time by a wide, wide margin, and it did incredible amounts for the game in this country.
But what you what you hear, and what you don't necessarily think about until somebody brings it up, is yes, the crowds were great, and we've you know, we haven't seen had never seen crowds like that before and really to an extent, haven't seen many of them quite like that since. Then.
That was it.
It was the crowds were big, and then everybody went home at the end of the day. You know, this was not you know, like that was. It was a big deal in like six cities, and not every city in this country is hosting games. Not every city is getting fan fests or or warm up friendlies or any of that. So US Soccer it's in their mission statement to grow the game, taking the national team to a place where you either have not been in a long
time or have never been. I feel like is a great way to go about growing the game, and I will point out a contemporary as in within the next month example, local media attention is everything, and the US women's national team is playing a game in Louisville next month at Lynn Family Stadium, one of the premier soccer specific stadiums in the USL Championship. The US men's team
has never played in Louisville. The US women's team, I think has played there three times, and not since two thousand and four, and they played at the University of Louis's Football Stadium, playing in a soccer specific stadium which has hosted club friendlies. The NCAA Final four National Championship game was in Louisville last year, so like it's a the city is a potential base camp for a team at the twenty twenty six World Cup. I've got a lot of family there, I follow a lot of media
outlets there. And when US Soccer said the US women you just won your gold medal, You're going to play in Louisville, local media and Louisville went wild for three or four days. Like Wall, the wall, NonStop interviews with X, Y and Z, and so if you're a person in Louisville that doesn't know a whole lot about soccer and you see all of this, that's what gets you interested. That's what brings you in, and you're like, oh my god, we're hosting a World Cup in two years and then
we've got the Olympics here two years after that. Like that's how you grow the game, as you take the game to people who don't normally get a chance to see it.
For the record, my grown is because my team West Virginia lost in the semi finale club in Louisville. I had tickets purchase for that championship game. Thomas, I think what Lawrence is talking about, and you and I have talked about both on and off air, is bringing the
game to the nation. Obviously, you know the idea of using the men's national team to drive not just hype for the World Cup coming up, but then to help hopefully, you know, plant seeds of not just support for the men's national team, but soccer as a whole in some untouched areas. So I'm gonna go through some more stats because I think this goes to our point, right, I said, Texas, Ohio, California, California, Florida,
and Kansas, Missouri, right, whatever which way you're looking at it. Well, all but Ohio are hosting World Cup matches, right, So there's that. And Ohio is not a stranger to getting big time US men's national team matches or even big time you know, they're hosting Club World Cup in Cincinnati next summer. They get a lot of cup matches.
They hosted the two thousand and three Women's World Cup.
And they did they did. Yeah, So Thomas, I mean, I think that that's kind of the point we're talking about here, right, is the places we're playing the most are gonna be the ones who are highlighted and showcased during the World Cup. And of course they're probably going to continue to get you know, soccer games and hype and all these things for not just the men's national team but for soccer. But can you find a way
to grow the game with the men's national team? And I think that it's kind of the issue here, and I think is kind of a historic issue for US soccer is the places that soccer is big is the only places they seem to go to play.
Yeah, and that's true.
And I think now it's an opportunity to hey, we got a new manager, you know, big name, you know, maybe you know, if there's a fear that you're they're not gonna make the revenue or bring in enough players.
Look, they fail all the time with that. I mean, you know, it's like, the.
Only sellout this year is the one they played in San Antonio, which was a new stadium in city that like, they haven't played in San Antonio for damn yeah, and that was a new stadium. So Thomas right, Like, it's not like they're selling out everywhere they go. I mean, they had decent enough crowds for Copa America, but you only sell out as a eight thousand stadium, Like, well.
That's probably that's the problem.
I think US soccer has an issue when you talk about the ability to maximize revenue and maximize attendance, and so fans want that experience.
Players want that experience.
So if you're not able to do that in these bigger stadiums, then maybe and you're going back and it's retreads, right, Like fans are like, I catch it next time, and so now you have a little bit more of a draw with the coach, and I think that's something that they have to leverage, you know what I mean, leverage that bring that soccer to different areas, see what you can pull into it because they're missing out.
Yeah, I mean, look, it's it's worth noting that the two friendlies in September, both in Kansas City and then Cincinnati. Kansas City had nine thousand, a little bit more than that. Cincinnati had about fifteen and change, well below those venues capacities, but it is you know, you can understand a little bit that maybe not everyone's wanting to go see a substitute teacher lead a group of guys who brought grouped
at the gold at the Copa America. But at the same time, you had just played in Kansas City like a month and a.
Half literally the game before literally right.
Watch this team lose to Uruguay and get grouped at the Cope of America. There is a NWS Kansas City current game going on across the river the same day, I think that same afternoon actually even and then for Cincinnati, I mean we talked about it. It's not like there're any stranger to it. They've hosted four matches since twenty twenty, and to be fair to Cincinnati, a lot of those matches, you know, have been somewhat important matches and to try to pitch you fifty bucks for a ticket to see
a team without a coach is a little unfair. Now, I do have to say that so far are we on track this particular decade to be the most if you will, diverse array of stadium selections the century. Now, Thomas, your point about playing in California Massachusetts one, Foxborough was a beloved location because you know, I think it's fair to say Robert Kraft is a great supporter of soccer, and then California has tons of soccer stadiums but also
great weather. But Lawrence, we have twenty three, twenty four or soccer specific stadiums now in MLS, plus as you mentioned Louisville and some others in USL some that are being built, so you have a lot more just infrastructure to pick from. You know, you don't have to go to Cayle State Fullerton to play a soccer game because it's you know, the only thing that has a wide
enough pitch. You have locations to choose from. So when you look at yes, it's it's a little bit more diverse, if you will, but it seems like they're still not really leveraging all the resources they have in you know, twenty twenty four.
And one thing, one thing that you mentioned that I do want to touch on that we that is this weird bizarro notion from US Soccer that if it's not a US Soccer controlled event, then it just it just did It wasn't real, It didn't have happened. Right, we talked, We just talked about them playing a friendly in Kansas City right after they played, like literally right after they played a COPA America game in Kansas City. And US Soccer will tell you, well, we didn't pick Copa America
to go to Kansas City. No, but after you had your COPA America group stage schedule, you still picked Kansas City to host a friendly. Like, did that COPA America game just not happened? I know Thomas is up in the New England area right. The US men's national team has not played at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough since twenty fifteen, a friendly against Brazil. They hosted a Gold Cup game against Haiti a month and a half. Two months before
that friendly, against Brazil. Obviously, US Soccer will tell you we don't pick the Gold Cup venues before. If we were to just pick that apart, I think we might lose all cabin pressure for them. But like it's it's quite frankly, it's asinine from US Soccer to act a like they have no saying Gold cut venues, but be to sit here and say, hey, you know, yeah, this game that we just picked today is the same city
as this other event. Is this other event that we didn't have any control over, but like look at the calendar, guys, it's really not hard. You know, you may not have picked Copa America or Gold Cup or World Cup, which, by the way, does anybody remember Greg Burhalter after coming out and saying, yeah, we told FIFA we're gonna play in La La and Seattle and FIFA said.
Yeah, he said, they wanted to say West Coast, right, Yeah.
Like no, Like can you imagine, like FIFA is the law. They They're like you, it's our way or the highway. And US Soccer got to pick the World not just friendly the World Cup venues that they wanted, and people was like, yeah, sure, go ahead, So you mean to tell me that you have no sway at Common Bowl or Conca Calf and you you have no control over where those venue get picked, which is why you always happen to play in venues that you always want to
play in any way. Uh, but it's it's as nine to say we don't have any control over this, but then you put a game right there right after the fact. They did that, like I mentioned like Copa America and friendly this year, gold Cup and friendly and foxbro in twenty fifteen. And one of the things about that that drives me crazy is you mentioned, you know, we've already held.
On they met that in St. Louis last year.
They did that exactly. I can't mean the.
Two they got the Gold Cup and then they had.
And the friendly later exactly exactly.
People filled it up that I mean that that's the point, right we.
We You mentioned it specifically to Cincinnati, where they've hosted some big games. Why am I going to spend eighty five dollars to go to a friendly with an interim boss And we see this happen on a micro Yeah, we see this happen on a more micro level with the US women's national team again, Conka caff controls the scheduling.
We don't have anything to do with it. When there is Olympic qualifying or World Cup qualifying tournaments played for the women's team here in the US, and the women's team will play three group stage games in the same stadium in the space of seven days.
Which was definitely chosen by CONCA CAF. I think that is like Conka Kaff wants to minimize that because they're cheap and they.
But what why would you go to the Wednesday night game when you know you can make the Saturday afternoon game. So you're playing too many games in the same space in such a short period of time. You're going to pick one or the others.
You're not going We saw the most recent w Gold Cup. By the way, right the best attended game was the USA Mexico game, because of course it was. I mean, Thomas, you've got a daughter. If you if they were to play three games in Fox, well actually you would probably take your daughter all three.
Games, but a normal human.
Would pick one. But that's the point, right, like we we look at you know, to build on that. You you look at what we just had this year specifically, so we opened the year in San Antonio, fine, whatever new stadium I get it from. Like, also, it didn't turn out this way, but in theory the weather should have been a little bit better for a January friendly. You don't want to play no offense, Thomas, You don't want to play up in Portland, Maine for a camp
Cupcake friendly, but you know, I get that. But then you you played two matches in Arlington because cocka cap chowse that for Mexico the Nations League finals, right, and then you got yeah, well yeah, and which by the way, then it's sell out those either And then you played in Arlington, Texas again for your opener for CO of America, which I don't have a problem with. Look, it's a big stadium, centrally like whatever. I understand why it's chosen and why it's going to be there for those types
of games. But then you choose to come to Austin in October, and that's I think that's the issue that we're getting at.
Is that.
To Thomas's or to Lawrence's point, it's yes, Conca, calf Commono, Baal FIFA definitely choose. They select the venues, right, they say, this is where these are the selection of venues we want, and US Soccer goes, well, we'd like to play here, and maybe that's you know, I don't know which part is the egg and the chicken, but you know, there's a collaborative effort of picking those venues for the US men's national team. So why don't we then go back
to Texas? You know, in total we have played in Texas four times this year, five total matches, right, And that I just think where we're getting at is is, yes, there are some reasons behind the choices, but Thomas, it's like you could still have picked a just i mean different place to play, like the I mean, for example, the the friendly coming up in October against Panama at home.
You know.
Yeah, I again, I go back to the fact that they're just comfortable with the process with probably with the stadium, how the setup goes. I mean, there was I think there was a video several years back about like the process of like that US Soccer goes through to when they get to the stadium, you know, because they've got to put all there, you know US Soccer stuff around the stadium.
They've got to literally just like oh, you got the specs for the banners.
Does that it, right, and so and so for them, it's easier, right, They've got they've you know, they probably have the people involved that know how to do that, and they just they do it very well. And so to them, they don't want to really want to put that extra effort in to that, you know, to it.
And again I've said this for a long time.
You have to make these friendlies, especially the ones heading into.
The World Cup, a special event.
I said, I was all for uh doing like, you know, a special edition in Jersey for every single one of these matches, right, you like, if you're worried about the revenue.
You can get creative, you of soccer and and do this right, like.
People want to spend money on unique kits from from you know, you know fifty years ago, one hundred, right, you know what I mean. And I suspect they'll do that for the you know, for the World Cup. But but again, but if you're not rolled out, now get that hype out, they get some you want some money.
Now you can roll these things out.
They're not that complex, you know, and you're only going to have so many sizes, so many.
Colors for the venues.
Just make it an event, you know, and that's the thing, you know, I think they're just missing. They're just missing an opportunity to to kind of like make the couple of days they are in that city an event for the fans, for the players.
And to that point, if you remember during the home World Cup qualifying games for the twenty fourteen World Cup in Brazil, it may have just been the hex home games. I don't remember if it was the semi final round home games or two. But the night before each of those five home games, I don't know if you want to call it a PEP rally. I don't know if you want to call it a meet and greet. I don't know if you want to call it a get together.
But Jurgen Kleinsman and select players would go to some venue in town and all of these fans flocked there and showed up and filled the place up, and those crowds looked and sounded great on TV, and they were great on paper, and that has that is something that has been missing. And to your point, Thomas, I think that would go a long way towards making it an event rather than just hey, we're here, come see us by we're leaving.
Give us your money come to the stadium, in the stadium, and then yeah.
And I think that can go hand in hand with what I mentioned earlier about local media in you or different cities driving.
This, even if it's a stadium that you just haven't been to in a long time. Right, well, but those can still be exciting things, right. I want to run through some of the reasons, maybe they can be excuses if you will, that this phenomenon exists, not really a phenomenon, the situation exists, and then I'll let you to kind of pick it apart. So the first one that I actually do think has some legitimate reasons for why, you know, there's a half of the country basically don't pick is
time zones and travel. West Coast often gets overlooked for friendlies, especially if they are you know, major friendly windows involving US or excuse me, Euro based players. And I get that because these guys are flying from anywhere from you know, London and Madrid to and Frankfurt, you know, so you are trying to reduce travel even once they get into the country. You don't want to have them then go across another country and three more time zones to it.
So personally, you can disagree. I understand why for some why for a lot of the major friendlies, we don't go to the West Coast. Am I wrong for making that too much of an excuse or giving them credit too much? Well?
I think, I mean, I think there's opportunities to do that in certain windows, right, So if you have a June window where it's just a friendlies, you know you could you could make it work, right because again, seasons are over for teams, so there's not that that real club concern to say, well, geez, you know, I don't want my players coming back exhausted.
See, in the US would do like they.
Were strategic for a long time, you know, and maybe just the way it fell. But but they did have World Cup qualifiers and they're like, Okay, we're gonna play Mexico in the second leg of this window. We're gonna play in Colorado, or we're gonna play in Utah, right, because we're gonna play in elevation. So they would use it to their advantage. But when you have friendlies, you don't need to do that. So they could going out West.
I probably don't want them playing out there because I don't want to, you know, wait till eleven o'clock at night to watch the match. But but but I I mean there they could do that more often. Again, this is where cocking kaf could you know there is a partnership there.
When they have these Gold Cup matches.
You know, they're not scheduling a lot of West Coast type of matches either, you know, for the fans in general, so they're not gonna us is not gonna set up camp out there and be traveling out there unnecessarily because it's not gonna benefit them in the tournament.
It's it's one of those things where you know, there's that old saying where there's a will, there's a way did it? Has either of you ever seen the second Sakario movie. They have the sl not not as good as not as good as the original Cincario. This is original Sacario ten out of ten. The second one I'd give it seven and a half eight out of ten. But there's a scene where Matthew Modine is the Secretary Defense and he brings Josh Brolin in to you know,
discuss doing some some shady stuff. He's like, hey, when you were in you know, this region of the world, These tactics these underhanded tactics. They work for you there. Do you think they can work here doing what we want you to do here? And Josh Brolin says, if you want it to sir, and you have to want to do it, and the lack of effort and they you know they're where there's a will, there's a way, and when you tell me there's no way, that leads me to believe there is no will.
All right, Well, I had on my less CONCA cap shoes as been's. We talked about that. But I do think now it's a great time to insert into this conversation the twenty twenty five old cut venues because I think this highlights again the issue that we talked about, where yes, CONCA CAF chooses the venues, but we know that US soccer is very much it's driving the selection.
So you look at the twenty twenty five venues for the CONCACAF Gold Cup BC Place in Vancouver, US isn't playing there, obviously, Levi Stadium in Santa Clara, PayPal Park in San Jose, so kind of the same region. Using an NFL in an MLS stadium. Same in La you have so FI and then diagning any Health Sports Park
aka the LA Galaxy Stadium aka Home Depot Center. And then you go down and you have Snap Dragon in San Diego, Allegiance Stadium in Las Vegas, State Farm in Glendale, Arizona, Slash Phoenix, then Q two Stadium in Austin, AT and T in Arlington, Shell Energy in Houston, Energy in Houston, Saint Louis City Park in Saint Louis, and US Bank Stadium and Minneapolis. Now, if I were a betting man, Lawrence, I would put big money on the US playing in
Minneapolis at US Bank Stadium. Maybe not the opener, but whatever group stage weekend match.
I was gonna say, I could see that happen on Saturday, the Saturday.
Yeah, well, if it's the Saturday, whatever the Saturday or Sunday game is, you know, if it's the opener or just the middle whatever that is, I'm going to put money on that being the location for the US plane there. But I think there's two other stadiums that end cities that like jump off the map literally that they're playing at as well.
Yeah that's and the day they announced these, we had this discussion on Twitter, so I am I used to be a betting man. I haven't been able to be a betting man in the amount a year.
I did win a bet this year. I bet that the US would beat Germany in the Olympics and I won twenty bucks.
So okay, it's it's when you go back to Vea, when you go to the casino and you walk out with more money than you walked in with.
I didn't walk out with one day. I won that bet. Oh okay, well I won that.
I lost then and then and then Vegas took over and you gave it all that. Uh So they are not. If you're picking an NFL stadium, it's going to be the US or Mexico playing there, and they're not. They're not putting Mexico in Minnesota. Mexico is going to play Houston, Jerry World and Phoenix with their knockout round games in Vegas and so far that's that's how that's going to go.
So Trinidad Tobago v. Costa Rica is not going to be at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis, So that's going to be a US game which brings US back to the US has already played Minneapolis I think three times since twenty nineteen since Allion's Field opened up for Minnesota United, so.
The other two was younger.
Yeah, this would be the third time.
Yeah, I think let's see three times.
Is it open?
You're right correct, Yes, this is yes.
Yes, they played a Gold Cup game against Guyana. That was the one game where we all were all convinced that Tyler Boyd was the next big thing. Then they had a friendly and then remember they had the twenty five below zero World Cup qualifier there where Greg was Greg Borhalter did the totally staged selfie with the fans. I don't let's not go down that road. I'll get too upset. But you mentioned two other stadiums. Jump right off the map. What are the two remaining stadiums the
US is playing in this year? City Park in Saint Louis, Q. Two Stadium in Austin. You keep all three. Those are all three in the central time zone. You're not all over the map, and you ensure happy coincidence. Conka caff just happened to give US soccer venues that they love playing in. Uh So that's that's how that's gonna happen.
I'm I can see your three group game games whatever, Order, Minneapolis at US Bank, Saint Louis City Park, Austin at Q two Stadium, and I'm sure one of the knockout round games will be at snap Dragon in San Diego, because that's that's one that's it's big enough. That'll be a good, big crowd, but it's not so big that thirty five thousand people get swallowed up because one, one, fun,
one fun, little nugget. Shell Energy Stadium in Houston has since it opened in twenty twelve, will have played host to every single Gold Cup in that time.
Which I will say it's a great venue. I've been there. It is a nice stadium in the city. It's a nice stadium, right, I'm not saying it's great, but like it's downtown. You can walk there from the downtown area, you can.
You know.
It's it's on the whatever fake public transit line they have that doesn't even go to the airport. But it's there though. But you know who doesn't play there a lot? The US, The US. And that's the other thing is they choose Austin all the time, you know, and and not Houston.
Well, Austin's the shiny new toy. I know, it's I don't.
I don't.
It's it's one of those things, this the cynic and you wonders what promises are made.
That's that's the point coming up. That's the point coming up.
But Thomas, this is also an issue that when you look at this list of the stadiums, it feels like it was copy and pasted from the twenty twenty three Gold Cup, which I think is the other underlying issue that isn't necessarily a US Soccer problem, But cocka Cap hosts a damn tournament every it feels like three months, you know, So when you're playing a Gold Cup every two years with a for a region that is just you know, very since you know, located and most of
the fans are coming from Central America. Just put it that way, right, that's where most of your teams are located, the teams that are qualifying, obviously Mexico being the big draw. So well, I mean I feel like, except for like PayPal Park, all of those stadiums were in US Bank, you know, all those stadiums were part of last year's around twenty twenty three's Gold Cup, and that that is also kind of but the problem that we get into is we're doing this all the time.
Well, not the thing.
It's a rinchwatch repeat for for for Cock gaff right. I mean, there's a reason why the United States, you know, the primary host of a Gold Cup forever pretty much, right, And so it's because that's where the numbers are, right, that's where the venues are.
So it's so they're not gonna be overly creative.
They're gonna, you know again, they're gonna they're kind of gonna set the tone for the United States and Mexico.
Here, here are your venues, you know.
Here, we're gonna kind of set it up because that's really the match up most people probably want to see at the end of the day in the final. So it's again, it's become a scale kind of tournament. Maybe this one if it does include different you know nations, who knows it's going all over place.
You know, maybe it's a little bit more exciting.
But but you have to make it more of an event as supposed to just like, yeah, we got one in two years, you know what I mean, it's going to be the B team or the eighteen you know playing.
In it, and I think it better be the next year.
Yeah.
But but but Yeah, that's the thing, like he just the whole thing is just kind of it's become a joke, right, It's become a joke because it's really, you know, it's you know, it's not the premiere tournament anymore for Cocker Calf And you can kind of see it from even their venue selections a little bit. You know, in general, they're just you know, they're kind of just going back to what works for them. And I get that, I guess if you get in the you know, the fans and stuff, and but and.
Don't forget we have the Nation's League Final in March, because we have to play that every year. And if I were a betting man again I'm not really, but I would pick one of the big NFL stadiums that has a roof to be the location for the semi finals and finals of the CONCACAF Nations.
Where are there a lot of Mexican fans NFL stadiums.
With Houston, Arlington, Vegas, LA. That's that's you know, maybe Phoenix, that's the outlier. Possibly Phoenix. They haven't played there yet for the Nation's League Final. It wouldn't surprise me if they do.
But they had the new and elite Continental Classico there last year they did do that. I think one complicating factor at least this year, which is not to suggest that Conca caff us Soccer in the FMF would you know, branch out radically in their venue selection, is we've got the Club World Cup here next summer at the exact same Yeah. The other issue, which I'm stoked about because uh, you know, that gives you another big, high level tournament.
We'll see how high level, but another big tournament to get people excited for the twenty twenty six World Cup. And you know they're you know, you know, obviously they picked Seattle because the Sounders have already qualified. And they picked La because outside of the United States, people think La is the only city in the country.
There's three.
You have La, La, New York, and if you're from South America, you include Miami.
Yeah. Speaking of those venues, are Mercedes Been Stadium in Atlanta, TIQ Well in Cincinnati, hard Rock in Miami, Giotis in Nashville, MetLife in New Jersey, Bank of America and Charlotte Camping World in Orlando, and Are and Coast Stadiums formerly Explora Stadium formerly Orlando City Stadium in Orlando, the Rose Bowlin up in La Lincoln, Financial Field and Philadelphia, Lumen and Seattle as you pointed out, and then Audi Field and DC, so a little bit more diverse and we're normally used
to seeing. I mean, Charlotte has hosted some matches, but like as you pointed out, we wanted they obviously wanted to keep for the most.
Part, m.
The Club World Cup mostly on the East Coast because you're bigger audiences are Europe, you know, as well as South America, which really lines up more from a time zone perspective with the East Coast. And then you kept West Coast for your Gold Cup because that's where a lot of the fans who will be attending the Gold Cup have, you know, either immigrated to or exist already Slash. It's just easier for them. Also for time zone for watching, because Mexico and all those places are more aligned with
the Central and Pacific time so that is another. Obviously an element to all of this is that conc CAF host tournaments, like I jokingly say, every three months. But like last year we had the Nation's League Final, we have another Nations League Final this year as well upcoming this year, we have you know, Gold Cup again next year. Like they just do this all the time because they're an organization that pretends to want to help soccer and
these small countries definitely not lining their own pockets. That's never happened in this region ever before. We talked also about this region this reason, and I do think that there is value to this idea, but I'm going to spin it in a different way. So we talked about
the familiarity with venues and facilities. I'm just gonna say that it's more about to me, Yes, there are some that they like, but it's good to play in soccer specific stadiums, not just to promote the newly built stadiums and the new clubs, because I think we all know that that is a big reason. But Thomas, I think there is value in playing in a stadium built for the sport you're playing.
Yeah, the atmosphere, the atmosphere is completely different. I mean it's it's it's more intimate. It's just designed for that. It's great for the fans, it's great for the players.
I mean I think that.
I mean I don't think the players really care all that much, but maybe there is a say may the players like, yeah, we love playing in Minnesota. If you can get it there, great, you know, we'll play there. Like there may be an element to that as well, right because we've been successful, we're comfortable that because think about that. The player might say, hey, geez, you know what, we want to go to this venue because you're like
a restaurant there or something. Who knows, But there could be an element that exists where the players are having being why.
They keep them out of Atlanta because we got too many restaurants I might like want to go into.
But but there may be something there thinking, hey, here, here are the three venues we're considering over the next three windows. Any of them interest you?
And that's that's a good point because look, we knocked Burhalter for it, but that's a good point. Thomas he mentioned specifically in the twenty twenty two qualifying cycle about Columbus having a venue they liked and like having facilities
they like, and I get that. You know, if they have really good you know, from practice facilities to their training table room as great and as an easy walk from the locker room to the tunnel that you walk out of like I can understand that at for competitive matches. So the problem though, as you hit, is but why do we keep going back to you know, it's a friendly, It doesn't matter. We don't need to have that type of familiarity.
Yeah, And I think I think that's and that's the problem, right, I think that's where they lose it a little bit, is that that competitive match piece of it, right, like where you talk about all the other stuff when it comes back to us like, well, these are competitive matches. Why can't we try something new? And I don't know, you know, logistically, you know, is it more challenging to get certain venues in this you know September, October, November one because of football season?
I don't know. I'm sure there's something there for sure.
Yeah, like Los Angeles, Seattle, Foxborough aren't going to have a lot of open days.
You're right about that, right, But but to me, that's just another excuse. They could make it happen in other.
Windows that the March or the January window.
To they have played many games back to back, I know this for sure, at Landing United on a Saturday and a Falcons one pm on a Sunday.
So right, it's want to do it right, and I don't think they want to. I just don't think they want to go through the you know the challenges of doing that necessarily.
And this summer would have been the perfect time to do that. I mean, I didn't I didn't mind the uh the artist formerly known as FedEx Field in Landover, Maryland outside of d C, the little awage du Well, that one. Yeah, that's that's uh, that's why they didn't get World Cup games. But I didn't mind that venue selection. That's a stadium you hadn't been to since twenty twelve in a city in the area, like at all, except they did it back to back and they did it
twice in twenty nineteen at Audio Fields. In the back sense, it's both those crowds stunk.
Well.
Audi is a terrible stadium, but great location. Terrible stadium.
But you didn't need to play Brazil in Orlando. I understand there's a lot of Brazilians in Florida. I get that part of it. But you've played Orlando at whatever the Inner Miami, not Inter Miami. But yeah, that yeah, that one. Why why you picked the name of a company that shares a name of another team in your state? I don't understand. Uh, you know, money, but uh, you didn't need to play at the Citrus Bowl at Camping
World Stadium. You could have gone somewhere else. And it's not like it's not like because you were it was close to d C where you just played, or it was close to Dallas where you were playing your Copa America game. No, you just picked it because you like Orlando and there were Brazilian fans there. You know, that's a game that could very easily have been played in Pittsburgh, like, like I would love to see the US men's national
team play game in Pittsburgh. The River Hounds are one of the more successful, more well supported teams in the USL Championship with their own stadium. I understand it's turf, and we'll touch on that later. It's a smaller stadium, yes, but you could play at Hines Field in June. Well it's not Heines Field anymore, but you could play there in June. The US women's team in twenty fifteen drew
forty five thousand people. You don't think people will be going bokers to see the US men's national team play. But right before Copa America, the big possibly successful summer of soccer.
You know that.
That's again to Thomas's point that what you could have found a way to go somewhere new for one of these summer friendlies if you wanted to play an NFL stadium that you hadn't been to. Last I checked, the NFL isn't playing games in their home stadiums in June,
so like like, like I just picked Pittsburgh. You mentioned Charlotte getting club World Cup games the US men's national team and never played in Charlotte, and they played a Gold Cup game last year and drew forty two thousand people for it, So like, this is not We're not We're not all three just making this up.
This is like this is real.
Like when people finally get an opportunity to go see this team, they go see them.
Correct.
One of those to build off that is another excuse or a reason is that you know, US Soccer may put out a request for proposal RFP, and who knows which stadiums and cities are responding, right, we don't know, and so it's it's maybe an excuse, but it's definitely a reason that you know, not every stadium is bidding
to host games. I can say, for example, in talking with The Atlantic and added Beat reporter Doug Roberson that you know, I was asking him a point blank comes to the bar that I watched soccer at a lot. I said, well, why doesn't Mercedes Bens get any games? You know, why don't we get a US game or even you know, Gold Cup. And he's like, well, they haven't did for it. They haven't required you know, they
haven't put in the bid proposal. And you know, to be fair, they hosted some Mexico friendlies and some Premier League friendlies. But you know that is also a reason. You know, these stadiums do have to want to bid. But yeah, is that really, like you said, where there's a will, there's a way.
To me, it is incumbent upon US Soccer to make them interested in bidding on the on these games, to tell them this not only is this good for us, but it's good for you because it may be a case where they don't, like we talked about earlier, the people in the city in whatever city might not know the national team is there until they've picked up and left town because they were just like, hey, we're here, come see us, and they're not making it an event. So you, as US Soccer need to reach out to
these people and like in all these various stadiums. It could be I have floated the idea because somebody floated it to me several years ago. I don't remember who it was, so I can't credit them. But you know, I would love to see in the run up to the twenty twenty six World Cup, the US men's national team play a bunch of friendlies in college football stadiums. You know, we saw Mexico play Brazil at Texas A and M Stadium the summer. We saw Liverpool and Manchester
United play each other at South Carolina Stadium. This summer, we saw Manchester City and Chelsea play at Ohio State. We saw Celtic and Chelsea play at Notre Dame. Notre Dame hosted Liverpool and Dortmun a couple of years in twenty nineteen. That's something, is US Soccer. You need to get on the ball and get ahead of this and be like, hey, in May, you know, late mid to late May, early June, would you be interested in hosting this?
Let us know what you think. If you're not picking up the phone and calling all of these people and asking them to bid. They're never gonna bid because they don't know that the event even exists, like like it would not. How many times do people in any walk of life not do something until somebody had, you know, relaysed them, Hey, this is something you should look into. I can't believe I never looked into this before. Why did Why did it take me so long to do this?
You know?
That's that's as US soccer. I feel that it is their responsibility to try to get I understand if if if they call them say hey, what do you want to do? What do you what do you need from us? What? We don't want to do it? Okay, if they don't want to do it, they don't want to do it, but you need to pick up the phone. And I know they haven't picked up the phone because when report, you know, when these discussions happen, they get leaked, reports come out, and there are no reports about the US
calling Boise State to play on the smurf turf. There are no reports leaking out about you know them that you know, they're not calling the Steelers to play in Pittsburgh. They're not calling the Riverhouse to playing Pittsburgh. They're not calling who like these this this stuff would leak out and it doesn't. They're not doing it. They need to do it. It would be good for them, it would be good for the fans, it would be good for
the venues that host. I would I would say Indianapolis is one they should be on the phone with all the time. Ay Indi eleven is one of the best supported teams in the USL Championship Lucas Oil Stadium. Like the town of India is a big time sports town. You wouldn't think it, but they've got an NFL team, They've got an NBA team. I just mentioned, they have USL Championship team. They have one of probably the most
popular team in the w NBA right now. They've got you know, they host, They've hosted a Super Bowl, they host the Final Four, every fives, they host, they host the National they hosted the National Championship Game. They host the Big Ten Championship game every single year. I feel like I heard you mentioned one time they and I know they did this. They hosted swim Olympics swimming qualifiedly, are you telling me the US men's national team wouldn't
draw twenty five thousand people to Lucas Oil Stadium. I think it would probably be a lot more than that. So US Soccer needs to get on the stick here and start making some phone calls.
And Thomas, I think the word that Lawrence used a lot was event, And that goes back to your point of if you make this an event, more studies and stadiums will want to host it because they'll see the value. Indianapolis will see the value of bringing the US men's national team to Lucas Oil because they can say, oh man, we're gonna get forty five sixty thousand people and Lucas Oil for a soccer game. Sounds awesome, all right.
I mean you look at what they've done with the you know, presenting these you know, player capped jerseys to the older players, right, yeah, well they're doing they're doing that presentation to the players, like like there's an opportunity there to bring it to the fans, right, Like, you know, the players there, Hey, you have an event, right, the player.
Would be happy to do that. You know, they're happy to help support that. And I think that's the thing.
You can make it.
You can make it at least a too, you know, a two evening event, right, obviously the match night, maybe you have watch parties around the city. You're like think of like, it's not that difficult of a concept. But they, I don't know if they're just again, you get the city on board, it's gonna bring influx money. People want to be around the events, even if they can't go
to them. They want to be around that, and they won't want to be around those soccer fans because it is an awesome environment either if you're at the match or you're at a bar watching it, you know, with other supporters.
It's awesome. So I don't know, it's to me, it just seems almost too simplistic for them not to do it.
But yeah, the event piece of it, to me, it's a no brainer. You can you can make that and make it just an awesome environment. I mean, look look at all these soccer fests that they have, you know that they're bringing around, right, I mean, you're promoting the World Cup and doing it in this moment, right, So why to me, it's just a it's a no brainer.
They're just maybe they're just not that creative.
I don't know, Well, they might not be, you know, I think it's fair a little bit fair to say that. You know, US soccer is not necessarily running like a Fortune five hundred company. They're not the most robust full time staff. But there's still opportunity to get people together and come up with ideas and say, Hey, where do we want it, Like, I mean, at their AGM or you know, whatever meeting they're going to have. And at
the end of this year, why why aren't you pitching? Hey, give me five cities that we haven't been to in a while, you know, and that we haven't been to in the past ten years herever that we should go to, you know, and like you said, Lawrence, like Pittsburgh. Hey, they've got a sixty thousand seeds stadium, a city that loves sports. I mean that is a sports crazed I haven't been there. They've played in Philly or in Pennsylvania a lot in Philly. They've played in Harrison or Harrisburg.
Sorry Harrison, Harrisburg.
Did you play in Harrisburg?
I feel like they did. I don't that I could be wrong.
That must have been many moons ago.
I'm not saying it with three cents, ah, I feel like that anyway, you know, whatever they've played in Philly a heck of the time. But to the office side of the state, that state, that state is long big. You know that that seems to be what we're asking here is just to be slightly more prop in bringing the national team to the nation. All right, So I want to close up with some solutions. So I'm going
to pitch a solution to this problem. I'll have Thomas pitch a solution, Lawrence pitch a solution, and then we'll talk about future sites that we would like to see them at. And not not very future, we're talking like in before twenty twenty six. So my solution is leverage the soccer specific stadiums you have in this country. And while this may not get you to new soccer markets, it at least brings the team to new regions. For example, Portland.
I know that it's turf, figure it out, but Portland is a wonderful stadium with twenty five thousand seats that are begging to be filled for a US men's national team. Right now, there are twenty twenty two total MLS soccer specific stadium to the US, plus a couple in NWSL and USL, and by twenty twenty six, we're going to have at least four new soccer specific stadiums, one of those being by the way in New York City, which we haven't played in and god knows how long have
we played there. Ef for Thomas, I feel like you've mentioned we've played there, but like never maybe we haven't played there.
Yeah, it was yeah, it was me just say, I'll bring it up real quick.
This is before we cared about actually the stadium size.
Yeah didn't they didn't. They play on Staten Island in like the early eighties.
So they played talking about here, right, like when they were playing in small stadium.
Yeah, they played in Yankee Stadium in nineteen fifty three against England and got six lost three to six. And then they played nineteen sixty eight against Israel at the Yankee Stadium, so they.
And they played.
They played in Brooklyn, and they played in h Ransdale Island, so I mean they've they've played.
But it's you know, a lot eighty.
Five before anybody in this country cared about soccer, right.
I mean yeah, I mean they just played there, you know, and mostly I think England twice, Canada twice in New York you know city area, right, Like it's just yeah, it's it's not really a venue they've frequented very often.
I mean, that's just my solution is levers the soccer statings you have. I know they're not new. You know, it's not like it would be new if the US men's national team played in Dick's Sporting good Park in Denver, Right, but maybe that's an opportunity to not just reach fans in that area.
But well, I don't I don't think. I don't think they've been to Dick Sporting Goods Park since twenty seventeen.
They haven't been there. They haven't been there in a while.
I agree that they did. I'm saying, you know, they did have the Nation's League Final in Denver in twenty one, but it did empower field. Is that is it called empower or it did they switch.
That mile high?
I'm just gonna call it meyer.
Uh.
You know one that they don't play ad enough in my opinion is is Red Bull Arena. I mean I know that again, US Soccer wants to manipulate the crowd so that it's a pro US crowd. But for a friendly, I don't care.
You can play there are no you're not qualifying for anything.
You're already probably I don't carer Like you want to play in the New York area, go play it red Like those are just some just ideas that are like they exist. You have the soccer stadium play there. So that's my solution here is just use the soccer specific stadiums. Lawrence. I think you talked maybe a little bit about college football.
Is that Is that your solution that And again this is this is all just in the short term up to twenty twenty six. Obviously, once we get past the twenty twenty six World Cup, I wouldn't necessarily mind a
reversion to the mean as much. But yeah, like that because I think that is something that on the clubs, on the European club side, they're starting to figure out about, you know, because I feel like the passion of college football mesh would mesh very well with the passion of high level international soccer, and so that it is a that is a great way in my opinion, to be able to take the national team to New fans because
these cities and towns, you know, they're not big. You know, Auburn, Alabama or Tuscaloosa, Alabama is not a big city, not by any stretch of the imagination. But yet they get one hundred, one hundred and one thousand people in there, you know, seven times a year in two months, so you know, you know, and that would allow you to go to places that you otherwise probably wouldn't allow yourself to go to because you need it to be a big, major metropolitan area. Like you know.
I'm going to put this out there as well. We're in the year, we're in the era of nil, and I tell you who also benefits from nil soccer players? Hmm, there's an opportunities there. I'm just saying. I'm just saying, but.
Think about it. The United States has the men's national team has never played in the state of Nebraska. You can go to Lincoln and play at Memorial Stadium.
Isn't that funny? The birthplace of literally the birthplace Omaha or of Lincoln, Nebraska, the birthplace of the American Outlaws, the largest supporter group in this country for the US Benz that or for the US actional teams. They've never played in that even state, let alone that city. So you could get or eighty thousand for a volleyball game, which I understand why you can make it something happened for soccer, but you.
Know, and you could and this isn't quite college football, but this is the one NFL stadium that I feel like matches call the things that make college football stadium special go to lambeau Field.
Yeah, and that I mean that is you haven't played in Wisconsin and god knows how long.
And the last time they played in Wisconsin they played the was It's been so long since they played in Wisconsin that the man who was the American president is dead. The country that they played is no longer a country, and the stadium they played in has been gone for a long time.
I'm not saying they played in the Milwaukee Yeah.
The old, the old, old old Brewers Stadium. Yes, they played East Germany and George H. W. Bush was the President of the United States. Holy cowly. But lambeau Field is grass, which again, in the short world touch on this in a minute. In the short term, I don't care, but it is grass. It is a large venue, and you get people from all over the world going to Green Bay Packer games all the time, like those are
tough tickets to get. You want to talk about event, the US men's national team playing somebody like Germany at lambeau Field would be would be huge. And you know they've hosted soccer Manchester United, no excuse me, Manchester City and Bayern Munich played a game there and drew eighty two thousand people. A fun little tidbit you can you can see by my shirt here that it says Mississippi Soccer Referee Association. For those that don't know, I've been
a referee for eighteen years. A fellow Mississippi referee had the whistle for that game. He's a guy named Matt Thompson. He was the USL Referee of the Year two years ago. Ask him about it, he said, he's not gonna lie a little bit nervous, never been in a state, never done a game in a stadium that big or with that that level of player, but.
Even the backups who are playing in that game, that's all guys.
Yeah.
I don't know if this is like going to college football. It's it's it's fun to talk about, and I understand there are probably some complications with that, but I'm a huge college football fan. Obviously I'm a huge soccer fan. I feel like the marrying of the two would make me personally a very happy camper.
Yeah, I don't disagree. I think one that I legitimately does make sense is Lincoln, I don't like. I think that would be a great way to get to Nebraska in that area. You know, we talked about Indianapolis. Another one could possibly just be going to Notre Dame, you know, go up to South Bend and playing Notre Dame Stadium.
I'm a Notre Dame football fan. That would make my heart very happy.
I mean, but I know, you know, I don't want to get too much credit Notre Dame. They ruined my beloved Big East Conference. So you know, there's also I mean, think about we haven't played in Detroit in forever because there's not a quote suitable location. But like you have East Lansing, which is like what ten miles outside of that, which has an eighty thousand seat stadium for the Spartans.
And then how many.
Times we've seen one hundred thousand plus crowds at the Big House every like three or four summers in a row.
Yeah, that's in that situation I think US doesn't want to get See the problem is this they these bigger stadiums.
I think they're nervous they won't sell, right, I don't care if.
You won't sell out.
I don't think I don't care, you don't care. But they care, right, they care about it.
They're not selling out the fifteen thousand seats I know anyway, I know.
But they're comfortable with it. They trust me.
They're just a weird like you know, security blanket around you know what they're selecting.
I mean, they just don't want to.
I just it makes no sense that to we're all rational people. I don't know that anybody's ever seen.
Yeah, I mean to me, if you are soccerware to come out and say, hey, we can't do this because x y Z right, you may not believe like you may not believe it, but at least they're coming out and saying, you know what, this is why we're not playing at college Stad's because it's challenging for us to get you know, you know, them interested in doing this.
We get that, but they're not even doing that. They're just blatantly just ignoring it. And and there's a lot of noise you know around you know, venue selection.
Thomas, what is what is your solution to this problem?
Then?
I said it earlier and I'll go back to it I again, especially leading up to the World Cup, making an event, give some of the some sort of incentive special edition jersey if the players will were that that you can only buy at.
That match, right, like make like rally towels or something.
Yeah, but you know what I mean, make it making an event for for that and say wow, this is I've got to get to this match, like I've got to get to I want this jersey that's only going to be worn one time, you know, in this match, and you can only get it, you know, at this match, or you're gonna get some triple extra large you know online when they you know, try to get rid of the rest of them whatever it is.
But they can make a limited edition and special edition.
They've done that in the past, and I think that would help the you know, the die hards and other fans say hey, let's just go, let's try to get there, and they would maximize revenue too. I think they could really benefit for that. But again, too much, it's too much work for them.
I think, Well, we have been talking a long time, but we're going to continue to talk because we feel
very passionate about this. And I think again. We all agree that the goal in the short term and the long term, but the short term goal specifically is driving hype and growing like, not just hype in the cities that are going to host the World Cup, but making sure the entire country feels the hype for the twenty twenty six World Cup and specifically feels the hype for the men's national team, because that is how they'll stick, not just as you as men's national team fans, but
hopefully soccer fans and participants in the sport in this country. So this is the exercise we're going to do now. You both have written great articles talking about this problem, right Lawrence, you wrote one back in twenty twenty two for World Soccer Talk where you write a lot about, Hey, the US just hasn't branched out and played in a lot of states. You know recently, certainly they've been playing a lot, but the same states over and over again.
Book haven't gone to these states. Thomas, you did another one for Chasing a Cup more recently, exploring the states they have, you know, where they've been regionally and on all that, and then how do we get to new places and specifically some places we've never been before. You both made lists, and there is an overlap of ten
that I want to talk about. And what we're going to do is I'm going to read the ten cities and then I'm going to have you pick two from that list that you want to see the US play in before twenty twenty six.
So here we go.
Birmingham, Alabama, Little Rock, Arkansas, Honolulu, Hawaii, Boise, Idaho, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, New York City, New York, Buffalo, New York, Albuquerque, New Mexico, and Portland, Oregon. So Thomas, from that list of ten, give me two cities you need the US to play in before twenty twenty six.
My first is in the end. I think Lawrence spoke to it earlier. But it's it's a venue that you know, or an area specifically that's very passionate for soccer in this country. We have I think we the national name has never played there.
They played.
Olympic qualifiers there I believe in ninety two seven and in America Stadium, yeah yeah, and then then a Pan American Games in eighty seven as well, they had they played there. So like I think that's for me one, and I'm going to go a little bit, you know, further north.
I'm gonna go Buffalo, New York.
I mean I think that's you know, I mean, I'm thinking more that my piece in it was based on their new stadium that they're building. But I think, you know, that's a spot that's you know, still within the US soccer comfortability range in terms of you know, East Coast in our central area. So it's in that area. Hey, look, they like playing in the cold. They did it in Minnesota, why not you know, why not do it again in Buffalo?
Right?
Can you imagine the Bill's Mafia at a US men's national team game?
Oh boy?
Oh yeah.
I mean they've got passionate I mean, there's got to be passionate soccer fans up there.
There has to be.
I mean, it'll only suggests it would be with the football crazies that are there.
Lawrence. So we have Indianapolis and Buffalo off the list. What are two of your cities that we need to.
Go to.
Off off of the list where we've got the overlap. I'm going to be selfish and pick the two. And I'm going to preface this by saying we both picked these same city. We both have them on our list, So I think this is not who slighted any of these other cities because we're both already on record saying they need to go here. I'm gonna be selfish and I'm going to pick the two that would benefit me the most as I'm in the Memphis area, So I'm going to pick Birmingham and I'm gonna pick Little Rock.
I have covered a game at the new Protective Stadium in Birmingham. The venue itself is very nice. The problem is the people running the show down there for the Legion or whoever runs the stadium don't know their elbow from their asshole. It was a mess. But the US men's national team played a World Cup qualifier against Guatemala, I believe in two thousand and five at the old Legion Field. Legion Field was old and outdated the day they opened it, and by two thousand and five was
just a hell hole. And they still drew thirty one thousand people in Birmingham, Alabama in two thousand and five. So I think that's a place you need to go back to.
And then.
You know that's in the Central time zone. That's a place you've never been before. I have been to war Memorial Stadium one time. It is a little bit of an old venue. But again, Mike, this might be the best place for me to say this. In the lead up to twenty twenty six, we are with the whole discussion of this as we are hyper focused on taking the national team to as many new and different places as possible. I don't care about turf. I don't care
about baseball fields. I don't care about field dimensions. I don't care about stadium size. I don't care about any of it. I understand long term, that's not a pot that's not a viable solution. I understand that I am talking for the next year and a half.
Don't care.
Go wherever, and I believe war Memorial and Little Rock and Birmingham are both turf. Don't care. You can put sod down, you can just play on the turf. Again, this is the ensuring the growth of the game is much more important than playing one game in front of the scary thurf monster. So for me in the Memphis area, it's three hours to Birmingham, it's two and a half
hours to Little Rock. Yeah, so if they were to do like a back to back in the two I would, I would, I would just like I just I just pass out and I was mym.
I will say too about specifically Birmingham is it's a forty two thousand seat stadium, which is it's basically the same type of stadium, but modern as what you saw in Connecticut at whatever Bratt and Whitney Stadium at you know whatever it is now. We played there last year against Germany, and I'm telling you Protective and Yukon are very similar types of venues right there. They're college venues. They're not big, but they're big enough to have a
good sized crowd. And we saw the passion when they finally played in a French slearer field. That's what it used to be called, not fracken winning. We're gonna call it by its o G name, Rynchlairfield, and that, I think, to your point, would would be really nice, right, Like I love Thomas talking about Indianapolis getting the big stadium.
Absolutely right, we could.
That would be great. You can get a lot of if.
You would not hear me complain if Indy got a.
Game, yeah, well obviously, but like you could, you could do Indianapolis for the I mean we're talking, you know, get the big opponent, bring them in Indianapolis. But like you know, maybe that same window you're playing, for example, Germany and Ghana. Right, okay, well Ghana play them in Birmingham, you know, I mean.
Right down sixty.
It's a good point. See, we're making solutions already. All right, my two. I mentioned one already. It's Portland, Oregon. I don't know why we feel the need to be scared of Portland in the turf Monster, as you said, that could be a stadium you easily put sod in for a game, and that is in my opinion, they are historically and still to this day, the most passionate group of fans. And I'm not talking just the supporters. I'm talking fans period in American soccer. So I think we
need to go to Portland. The other one that I know we all would agree, and I understand the stadium is not as big. Go to Louisville. The women are playing there.
Go to Louisville.
You know, this is where I don't mind rewarding a team for building a soccer stadium and building an ice club. We got this with San Antonio earlier. This year, it was great, go to Louisville. I don't care if it's a you know, cupcake game, that's fine, and that.
Would be the perfect time to go to a smaller stadium. Is a January camp game, yes, when ticket sales have already proven at all these other stadiums that you know, how many times have they drawn nine thousand people to Dignity Health Sports Park for a January campaign?
Right? You know?
I remember Greg Burholter's first game in charge, they drew eight thousand people at State Farm Stadium in Phoenix. Uh, go to like and I think I'll give you a soccer credit here. I think they might be starting to figure this out. Maybe they finally gotten coaching hires. Right,
so that's what that's one box checked. Now they need Yeah, yeah, now they now they now they need to Honestly, I think probably the next most important thing they need to figure out is Open Cup and then uh and then uh stadium selection.
And we could do a whole podcast.
Oh yeah, I cover a USL championship team. Don't get me started, I know. But I think this last January Camp, I think we maybe kind of saw them start to acknowledge maybe we should play these types of games in smaller stadiums because.
The largest Let's play Jamaica and Chattanooga m before the soccer city. I mean that was a twenty thousand seat Finley, but like yeah, it's like, yeah, we know this is a smaller city in stadium, but like it was a January camp game. It was very cold. There are very places in this country that it wouldn't be cold in January, and like la is one of them. So all right,
let's move on to the next part of this. The wild card wasn't maybe it wasn't on that list of ten, but your wild card, tamis of where you think the US should play before twenty twenty six.
Yeah, I'm wanna go South Carolina. It's one of the.
Of those places they haven't played ever or in a long time. It's one of the higher populations. And we just saw a match in South Carolina this summer with Liverpool and Manchester United that sold out.
So you know that was that was played was played.
I was played at Williams Brice, that South Stadium.
Right, So to me, the venues there right.
Now, we're killing two birds with one stone. You get the marrying of soccer and football, college football, and some place that you've never been before.
Right, So you know what I mean to me, that's a no brainer. Like it, Yeah, checks the boxes. I want to see it there.
I'll also say I love that idea because Charlotte and Atlanta are very close drives, so you're not alienating people from Columbia right like you can get I will drive to Columbia South South Carolina for I won't go there for many things, but I will go there for US soccer game. So I agree with that, Thomas. I love that pick.
Also, the Charleston Battery are one of the oldest clubs in America. They had the original soccer specific state of the old Black Baud Stadium and the pub. Yeah.
Man, The.
Men's and women's programs at both University of South Carolina and Clemson University are both very well supported. I think when Clemson and South Carolina played each other in men's college soccer earlier this year, I think they drew like seven thousand people.
Yeah, I love that. So, okay, we got Columbia South Carolina's one. Lawrence, what's your wild card that you think that they should play before twenty six?
I'm going to cheat and pick two cat selfishly Memphis, since I'm in the Memphis area. President of US Soccer Cindy Parlow Cone from Memphis. Tim Howard, the former US goalkeeper, was a long time it no longer is, but was a long time sporting director at Memphis nine on one FC, so the connections there. Richard mulrooney, head coach at the University of Memphis for the men's team, was a US men's national team player for some time, So I'll pick Memphis.
They are renovating the stadium formerly known as the Liberty Bowl for Tiger football, and I think that's going to make it much more. There have been rumblings and I'm going to try to get into some people's ears about this, trying to get some sort of high profile soccer game in there once because the university now owns that stadium instead of the city of Memphis.
A long story, Memphis is what three hours from Nashville. Yes, Nashville is three from Nashville, and Nashville is three from Memphis across I forty.
Yes, it's one hundred and ninety nine miles down I forty. But on a more realistic note, I would say New Orleans for I mean the I understand Maurcio Pochettino's the new coach, but the vibes around this team are it feels like very close to an all time low. I still think October tenth, twenty seventeen is the all time low. But New Orleans is a party like world renowned party town, and my god, does this team need something of a party atmosphere around it going into twenty six.
So play there back in what they.
Played at the at twenty fifteen at the end of their victory tour after the Women's World Cup, I think they drew like thirty eight thousand people there for it like it was a yeah uh even they lost that game.
By the way, maybe don't send Wes McKenny to that game. He will get into trouble, but everyone else is good to go. Maybe, but maybe Malik Tillman also apparently he's he's he's one to find trouble as well.
Like New Orleans is another one. They host the Super Bowl and the Final Four very regularly. They have also at various points throughout time hosted the SEC Basketball Tournament, so they know how to put on an event. And and then that New Orleans is an Amtrak hub, so if people are wanting to ride the train, like right, I've ridden the trains from New Memphis to New Orleans twice.
It was a blast both times. The city of New Orleans it was an Arlo Guthrie song, but no, those would be Memphis, just personally, selfishly, and then on a much more realistic note, I say New Orleans.
I'm gonna pick two because I am the host and I can cheat like that. My realistic one, the one that I actually think we should like legitimately, as we've talked about it, is Pittsburgh one. I love that city. I think it's a vastly underrated city. But the fact that it is, like it's far enough away from Philly as well as far enough away from Cleveland and Columbus and Cincinnati where it's not the same but you can
still pull from those people. Does that make sense? But you also have a lot of people in western PA, in West Virginia, in Maryland who you know, eastern Ohio who can get their way to Pittsburgh and play in a really cool stadium. One of the best settings and for sports is that all three of their stadiums you got, while you've got P and C. And you've got Hines
on well, Hines is texting on the Ohio. But anyway, you've got P and C on the Alleghany, You've got Hines on the Ohio, and then you've got the Riverhound Stadium high Mark on the Montgalia River. So it's a beautiful setting. It's a great fun city. You have a lot of sports passionate fans, so I would I would say Pittsburgh is the realistic one, my wild card because they're building a new stadium that should be done by
twenty twenty five Providence, Rhode Island. It's gonna be about eleven thousand, their new USL stadium there, and I'm just.
Like, why not I like it.
Yeah, I'd be happy with that. I can make that right. I mean it's one of those like where why else would you There's no other reason to play in Rhode Island less people, because there's a million other places in that area you could play, But like, that'd be fun. No, I definitely think Pittsburgh similar to you Thomas, like Indianapolis.
It's like, why not put it in a big stadium in a city that has always been close to all the other places they've played right like Indianapolis, so close to Chicago, so close to all the you know, Cincinnati and Columbus. Give them their own thing. Let them be the host. And that's kind of how I feel about Pittsburgh is let them be the host.
All right, Well, we've cut a hell of a promo for them.
Brothers man, listen. Forman's has both been the cause of hangovers and the solution to hangovers. I had they opened up Formannis in Morgantown when I was there at w and yeah, I spent a good minute there. But yeah, I mean, look, I also love Pittsburgh is a great food city. It's one of those underrated food cities in the country. I think it's a better sandwich city than like anywhere else outside of maybe New York. But yeah, that's I I do enjoy that city. I think we
have officially solved all these problems. So I'm going to just cut and record and send this to JT and Cindy since they're now like my neighbors.
Basically, he's been making the media rounds too, so.
Hopefully, thank you both for this discussion. I know we went a long time. I mean we're almost at an hour and a half of recording. But this is just one of those topics of conversation that can't be covered fully in a blog, article, in a segment of an episode or anything. It is something that is not just
a big problem now. It has continually been a problem throughout US soccer's history of just kind of focusing on a state or a city or a handful of those to play in the problem we have now, as we've said, we've got a World Cup coming up in twenty twenty six, and we have to maximize its impact because if we don't, we won't see this sport takeoff of this country the way we want it to. And we all love the sport. We all dedicate a lot of our lives to the sport,
so we want it to do its best. Lawrence, tell the good folks where they can find all of your work, because you are you are busy, Let's put it that way.
Yes, that's I am. Indeed, I am quite busy, but all of my just you can find me on my personal account at l doc nine three on Twitter. I write for World Soccer Talk. I write for Bluff City Media here in Memphis. I host the Not on One Soccer podcast. Which mostly covers Memphis nine one to see in the USL Championship, but will also occasionally discuss US US national teams or the program men's and women's programs
at the University of Memphis. And then you can also follow over My joke that it's my burner account, but at nine on one Soccer Pod is the official Twitter account of the Not on one Soccer podcast. That's if you follow me personally, you'll get all sorts of movies and history and college football and all sorts of stuff. But if you follow then on one Soccer podcast, that is ninety nine point five percent soccer.
Yeah, to do the same with my personal Like you, you don't want to come here for the ranting about w W football, but go to the US spot to get actual things you care about. Thomas, Uh, you have anything coming up that we need to be aware of.
I don't. I had a request for an oracle.
I've got to do some research on it, so we'll we'll see how quickly I can put all that together. That's the biggest part with writing oracles. It's the it's the making sure we have the fact check research and so that's sometimes you get down Rabbit holes into other things and it just you just can't finish it. So I'm working on something but nothing. That's uh, and that's I can hit the jackpot here in the next couple of days.
Well, make sure you go to Chasing a Cup dot com for his work. That's where it is housed right now, especially the article about where the US should play. You had another one out about goalkeepers recently, so that's worth very much worth reading as we head into a very
uncertain time for yours goalkeepers. By the way, and you can follow me again on the twitters at Soccer for US pod Thomas and I and maybe hopefully Caleb will be talking about a roster drop next week, so hopefully we will have more soccer US soccer content coming to you. But in the meantime, also please don't forget to go vote at Football Content Awards dot com slash voting vote for soccer down here for the best media organization. All right, well,
thank you both for listening, Thank thanks for talking. Thank you el all out there for listening. I'm bart, I'm out