I'm grateful. I don't I don't ever want to go back there, but that's kind of like that was part of my journey. And I believe that my journey and everything that I went through kind of helped me become who I am today.
Well, we don't have Steve here tonight. Steve has a good reason for not being on the podcast. He's doing is open talk tonight at a meeting. And if you want to hear Steve's story or a lot of it, you can go back to the archives, wade to the beginning. Man, I wish I had roll tape on that. It would be great to have that story. But instead we have Tim Westbrook and Tim. I'm gonna try and do the best job I can introducing you because you kick ass with your introductions on your
podcast. So our guest is Tim Westbrook. He's the CEO of Camelback Recovery and the host of the I Love being Sober podcast struggles with substance addiction eventually led to Tim to find recovery. He hit bottom in March of 2011 and he was willing to go to any lengths to stay sober. And through his journey out of addiction and recovery, Tim brings experience, strength and hope to somebody who wants to live lifelong sobriety. His passion for health
and fitness. Yeah, I saw an Instagram photo of you today. It's embarrassing the the muscles like coming out of muscles, Tim.
but
I'm trying to get there. Long term sobriety and changing lives is not only what inspired him to open CamelBak recovery, but accounts for Campbell Back's high success rate in today. Tim has held board positions for several nonprofits. He actively works at 12 step program. He's well connected in the recovery community. He's also an Ironman,
an avid yogi. In the interest of furthering his education and becoming a better tool for CamelBak recovery, he obtained his master's of Science in Addiction Counseling at Grand Canyon University in 2016. His recovery has led him to live a happy, helpful and useful life of recovery. Tim, welcome to the program.
Matt, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. It's an honor to be here.
Yeah, I thought all alcoholics were lazy and bums and on the street and I lit up to Instagram story today and I'm like, Oh my God, he's shaming me here with like flexing there. And it's like, you are in like top physical condition. It's fantastic.
I I'm. Yes, I am in pretty good shape. My experience is that alcoholics do everything excessively
Oh, yeah.
so. So. So I've got I know lots of alcoholics and drug addicts that are clean and sober, that are Ironman and that are
Mm hmm.
that are that are working out excessively, that are doing all the things. And that's kind of what I've gotten myself into, is just health and wellness. And it's not just physical fitness, it's mental, physical, emotional, spiritual. It's all of the things. And so my my passion today is just, I mean, self care, taking care of myself. And I don't know if you saw my Instagram post, I said, it's time for me to work on my mental fitness or my
Yes,
mental
that's good. It was
but my mental health, because that's if I'm not going for a run or or a bike ride or a hike or something, then I'm all twisted up. So that's what I do
I got that immediately when I saw that, because for me as well, physical activity is my mental health. I decided to get my son into weights about a year ago. He wanted to go to the gym, so I figured I would teach him the gym. He teaches me now. He
right?
knows more in a year than I could ever have known.
Yeah,
I he he taught. I told him I can't just do weights anymore. I want to get better physical cardio conditioning. And he set me up with a program of about 20 minutes of weights and then 45 minutes on the elliptical. And in about a month, I feel totally different. It was such a game changer. He
Yeah,
did that for me.
that's, that's awesome. Which as we know, being, being in recovery, it's the same thing as sponsoring the guy. The reason
Yeah.
we sponsor people is to help them, but really the reason why we're sponsoring them is to help ourselves.
Okay. Yes.
And that's like the same thing when I teach, you know, there's four levels of learning. The first level is you, you, you read, you listen. Level two, you speak about a third, level two, you write it down. Level three, you speak it back. And then level four, learning. I may have screwed this up a little bit. Level four learning is
And
you teach. And so that's really how you build the foundation. That's why we sponsor people in the 12 step program. And just in in anything that I do, I know if I'm teaching, I know that it's just helping me build a better and stronger foundation.
I've never heard those four steps, but I like to teach people because that's how I learn. I learned reading seven Habits of Highly Effective People that if you want to learn something, read it. Then teach someone, and that's how you're going to learn it.
Exactly. Yep.
Yeah. Helping another alcoholic has kept me sober 100% of the time, even when it didn't keep them sober.
Absolutely. I mean, we're not sponsor. It's like, you know, I don't sponsor people for them to stay sober. I sponsor people for me to stay sober.
Yeah,
And I mean, that's just like that's the reality. And I don't know about you, but my my first few years, I would I would beat myself up. It's like, man, I could have done a better job. They went back out there. But I realized, like, that's that's part of the deal, man. I mean, it just happens. It doesn't have anything to do with me. And we don't know who's going to stay sober. We
right.
have no
No, there's. There's nothing we can do about it. And that's another fellowship. If you really get tied into that, it's all my fault. No, it's not.
right,
You can.
right,
I know some people. I've been sober 30 years and they have a handful of people who stayed sober
right.
and they have tons of sponsors. That's that's just not how it works. So you're a pretty successful guy having a title of a CEO, regardless of how big the business's. That's a pretty impressive thing. You're in physical shape, you're highly driven. So again, I thought alcoholics were, you know, bottom of the barrel homeless people. What got you to this place that you had to find a way to sober up?
Well, I can I can tell you that I wasn't always where I am today. I mean, I've been sober since 2011. And I mean, my first my first few years were rough. I mean, it's like my my I get sober 2011 separation, divorce, bankruptcy, my real estate license is revoked. I, I lose four out of five homes during the real estate crash like, I lost my business, like I lost everything.
Yeah.
And and I in 2014 I started CamelBak recovery and for that first two and a half years, I went back to school to get my master's of addiction counseling. And I mean, for from 2014 to 2016, I'm in school getting my master's. I'm the house manager at my sober living house because I've got one house. I'm working at a treatment center 20 hours a week to get my internship hours, and I'm driving for Uber on the side to make enough money to pay my bills. So I was it was a grind,
man. I mean, it was I was struggling for sure. And I'm grateful. I don't I don't ever want to go back there, but that's kind of like that was part of my journey. And I believe that my journey and everything that I went through kind of helped me become who I am today. In 2016, I met a guy named Joe Polish, and I met him at a yoga studio in June of 2016. I remember he said to me, and I learned in the in this conversation with him, he's very successful. He's an entrepreneur.
He's in recovery. He had been to the treatment center where I was doing my internship four times,
Mm hmm.
and he owns this marketing company. He does very well in that very first conversation, he says to me, Can you open up two more homes in the next 90 days? And I'm like, Oh, there's no I mean, my first thought is there's no way. There's no way. Like, I'm barely making it here. I mean,
Yeah.
I'm like, Yeah, I barely have enough money that, you know, I'm driving for Uber, you know? But sure, I said yes. And I don't know who I don't know who the quote comes from. But he basically if you as soon as you put something out into the universe, the universe conspires to assist. And I started looking and I started telling people I'm going to open up two more homes. And I started looking and I found two more homes next door to each other.
Oh, wow.
And it just like it's just I'm not going to get into the story right now. But it worked out. And I opened up two more homes in August, August 26th of 2016. So less than 90 days later, after he gave me that challenge, I opened up two more homes. I had three homes. By the end of 2016, 2017, I opened up three more homes and I had a real business. And then I opened up more homes and then I started offering recovery coaching. We started offering clinical services in 2022. So it's been a
long journey. We have a solid reputation. We do great work. I attract great people into my company. I'm just so grateful and blessed for the people that I have on my team because it takes it takes an army to really build a good, solid
Right.
continuum of care, which is what we've done. I
Yeah.
believe.
I went through the website, and I saw there's just a lot of people in recovery who are in those positions of leadership there. And it's like another person recover, another person in recovery.
Yep, pretty much all of them are in recovery.
Yeah.
And
So you got subject matter experts there.
yes.
This is fascinating to me because it's also a story of if you see somebody successful and they got a fancy title, it's easy to overlook. How did they get there? And it feels like you were you were flying the plane while you were building it.
Oh, any time, any, anytime I have anybody say, Oh, you don't understand. I'm like, Whoa, hold on, trust me, I understand. And a lot of times and hey, I mean, like, we all have our struggles, we all have our journey and I can tell you that my journey was not like it wasn't all roses and butterflies by any means. And that and hey, I know a lot of people that are very successful, that are sober, that are not sober, that are just in the world. I mean, my my community, my relationships have
expanded. And in my first couple of years in recovery, I was all I was all recovery. I was all in. And what I mean is I was going to meetings. I was doing service work, I was sponsoring guys, I was talking to my sponsor. I go to the meeting before the meeting, I go to the meeting and after the meeting I was going to 12 step retreats. I like. That was kind of what I was doing. That was my life and that was
what I needed at that time. I realize there was a study that was done and it says that the people that are the happiest have the most communities. And so on that note, and I didn't realize this at the time, but I started doing other things, like I started doing yoga and I got it. And so I've got that community. I started doing CrossFit, so I've got the CrossFit community, I've done Ironman, I've got the Ironman community. I just became a yoga.
I actually I'm not officially certified yet, but a yoga, a certified yoga teacher. So I've got that community. I've got all these different communities and I'm a member of Genius Network, which is a and a mastermind group for high level entrepreneurs and it seems like people there's people in recovery in every single one of these communities.
Oh, yeah,
And we all kind of like, you know, we can all give each other the nod. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, And so it's it's been really helpful for me to not just my whole entire life is not AA my, my life is so expansive and it it helps me.
Yeah. I look at my life as not being AA. My life is steeped in recovery, though. AA teaches me kind of how to live those other lives. My, my life. And it teaches me here are the things that you do to be successful in those other projects and the people they hang out with. I might not be living in a church basement, but I'm living my way through life with everything A is teaching me. So in one sense I kind of am living AA Because all of those principles affect
everything I do. I coach people for a living in a call center and they are getting AA wisdom whether they know it or not. Every single day. The proudest day was recently is we're going through a lot of changes at work and somebody piped up and said, Well, what would Matt say? Matt would say, Control what you can and forget about what you can't control. And I'm like, First of all, you've no idea you're talking a language. Second of all, you're making me so proud because
Right.
half of what people worry about are the things they can't control.
Absolutely. And that's my experience as well. It's, is living the principles in all my affairs. It's
Yeah,
like I don't want to lie, cheat, steal, because I don't want to create wreckage that I'm going to have to go back and clean up doing the next right thing. And those are all things that I learned in a
How do you start a rehab center while you're doing Uber and opening sober houses and finding your own recovery? It feels insurmountable to do that. I assume you probably have some contacts from doing real estate with investments or whatever, but how do you do that and how do you have that mindset of, I'm going to get sober, I'm going to kind of rebuild my life and oh yeah, I'm going to try and build a world class rehab facility.
So okay, I mean, where do I start? I I've been an entrepreneur for a very long time before I got clean and sober and I was in a major car accident in 1990, April 19th, 1996, traumatic brain injury. It took me a couple of years to recover, so that was like a big deal. I got fired from a job and then I relocated and then I built up my and then I built up my life again and then I got fired again. So I kind of did some things where I would build
my life up. My wife would, you know, like I'd lose my job, I'd get fired, I lose relationships, everything would blow up and I'd move and I'd start and I'd start my life over and I'd build it back up. And my wife left me in 2011. That's when I got sober. And instead of moving, I stayed here and I lost everything. Over the next few years, as I mentioned earlier. But I'm always I just I'm I'm an entrepreneur and I just have that drive to succeed in. And you talked about the how in my
experiences. I don't think about the how because if you start thinking about the how, then you won't be able to do it. I just I just do it. I just go and I was talking to somebody else about this. I did a hike a couple of a couple weeks ago and it was it was a big hike. And I it was at Mount
MM
Humphreys, which is the highest peak in in
hmm.
Arizona, but it was the Humphreys Weatherford casinos, an 18 and a half mile loop trail. And I was going with my friend and she she sent me some reviews. She said, Hey, have you looked at the reviews eight and a half months? Because I'm training for room to room to room at the Grand Canyon,
Okay.
which is just, you know, one of the things that I like to do, and that's 50 miles with 11,000 feet of ascent. So I'm training. So I've got this training hike 11 and 18 and a half miles. And she said, Have you read the reviews? Because the shape, the
Well,
trail doesn't look like it's in very good shape. And I'm like, whatever, it's fine. I didn't read the reviews because I was committed. It doesn't matter. And so if I would have read the reviews, I would have realized there was I mean, it was the trail was in really bad shape. I'm talking like the trail wasn't even there. I was bushwhacking. I was climbing over trees. It was supposed to take me 6 hours. It took me 10 hours. So that's the perfect example of of kind of the way I operate. I don't
really think about the how. It's just I know that I'm going to do it and I don't really care what's going to get in my way. And not to say that's always not to say
that's
that's always a good thing, but it's the it's it's the who, not how. It's who am I going to lean on? Who's going to help me? And I'm I'm a figure. Outer is one of the things I would consider myself. I'm very resourceful. I'm a figure outer. And if I have my goal, my sights set on something, I'm going to do whatever I, I need to do to make it happen
I find
so that
that that's that's what real confidence is. Real confidence is not necessarily I know how to do this or I can whip everybody in the room. It's I don't know how to do this,but I'll figure it out. And it sounds like, All right, if I just jump into this, then I got to finish it. And I know who my resources are and I know the people who are going to help me. So I'll just get through this. I don't know if this is entrepreneurial spirit. This sounds like good alcoholic
behavior. Good alcoholic behavior sometimes is obsessive and makes you driven. You got
I
sometimes you got to reel in those behaviors. But alcoholics are great people to hire. Once they find recovery because they run into the wall, they just keep
know,
going and going and going.
Yeah, if we channel that energy correctly, then it's like. Like there's nothing that's. I know a lot of alcoholics that are very successful. And
Yeah, me too.
it and I was very fortunate in that I found a sponsor that, you know, had what I wanted and he was a business owner, he was an entrepreneur. He had and he actually got me connected with lots of other people that had what I wanted. And so that was really helpful for me to to find the rooms. I felt very fortunate. I found the rooms where I got to connect with people that how would I want it?
What would you say is success? And I ask this and I wish I can remember the guest that you have, but you had a guest on recently who talked about happiness and that happiness is not something to be delayed. I'll be happy when I get the car, the house, the job. Happiness is I can be happy with the things I have now and it's okay to want to do better. What does success look like for people who are in recovery?
That might have been. Michael Bernoff That might have been
Sounds
a guy named
like
Michael
it.
Bernoff Yeah, and
We did a whole
he
episode just I heard that and I'm like, that's an episode that quote in and of itself, it just
yeah,
spoke to me.
yeah, he's great. I went to, I actually went to his event and that's another thing, like I'm into personal development and those types. So he had, he had this event and I remember we did this exercise and he said, What do you want and write? Let's write down all the things that you want and everybody's writing down. You know, I want a big house. I want to, you know, ten out of ten relationship. I want a, you know,
a Ferrari. I want a you know,it's like we want all of these things and why do we want all these things? Because we think that these things are going to bring happiness to your point. That's it.
Mm
That's
hmm.
what we want. We want happiness and fulfillment. And then he said, No, that's not really it. He he said, Really what? It's what do you choose? It's like, okay, what do you want? What do you choose? So do you choose to be happy? It's not What do you want? What do you choose? Because it's what you are right now. And so happiness and fulfillment, that's what I want. That's success to me. I'm happy and I'm happy and I'm fulfilled. I'm helping other
people. And I realized that being an alcoholic, I'm a taker and
Yep.
I'm a victim and I'm going to lie, cheat and steal to get all these things that I think are going to make me happy, which really all they do is create emptiness and sadness and anger and pain. Whereas if I'm making a contribution, if I'm helping other people, if I'm bringing value, if I'm taking responsibility, then I'm going to feel good. I'm going to feel good about myself. And my experience is that it's always going to come back around. It's always going to come back around
Yeah, I
and
agree. I find that empathy is really in short supply nowadays with the way politics in the world and social media is. You get applauded for how much you cut somebody down. I just feel a lot better when I'm trying to do something nice for somebody else and listening to
uh
them
huh,
and not trying to get something in return. And I just would like to be the example of that. It's a lot easier for me to cut somebody with a with a scalpel, which I'm very capable of.
right,
I've
right.
got a great wit for that,
Yeah,
but
yeah. Easy.
I kind of want to put that aside and it makes me feel better. There are some times I have a friend who comes to me with her business issues. She's running a business and she'll come to me for like, what should I do in this situation? And I'm thinking this through and I'm like, Oh, this is a hard one. But you know what? If I can think this through and help her, she's going to feel better. It's going to make me feel good.
Mm.
So that's why I do it. So
Yeah.
tell me about CamelBak recovery. What makes it special?
Okay. So first off, I just want to say one more thing.
Mm
Zig
hmm.
Ziglar has quote, It goes something like if I, if you help enough people get what they want, you'll get exactly what you want.
Oh, absolutely.
And that's I mean, that's the same thing. Zig Ziglar is like he's he's he's old school. And so that that has that line of thinking has been around for a very, very long time. So camelback recovery, I would say. So first off, we're focused on mental health and addiction, mind, body, spirit. And were we we care about helping people get better. And not to say that other treatment centers out there don't do the same thing. So what makes us different? I'm not sure how to answer that
question. I would just say we focus on mental health and addiction. So your diagnosis
Mm hmm.
and then we're also we are
I guess
so we
I could
have an
rephrase
outpatient.
the question. What's special? What's great
So
about it?
so we do have a full continuum of care, right? So we have a residential treatment center. We can also do detox at our residential treatment center. We have an outpatient treatment center. We have an integrated health and wellness center at our integrated Health and Wellness center. We offer ancillary services like TMS, ketamine assistance therapy. We offer psych visits, so extended care. So once someone is done with our outpatient treatment program, we're not just going to say,
okay, you're done. Go find it. Go find a psychiatrist, go find a therapist and go find somebody to continue receiving care from on a you know, on an ongoing basis. So we actually have that support built in, which has been really helpful for us to have this full continuum, because we basically get to wrap our arms around somebody. They come with us and we drop them down from detox to inpatient treatment, and then we can step them down
to outpatient treatment. We can send them over to the Integrated Health and Wellness Center. We also have sober living homes. Our sober living homes here in Scottsdale are so in sober living, that's where we started. So our Sober living program is solid based upon our five pillars accountability, support, structure, community and purpose. So for us to have this full continuum of care means that we're not sending people because what happens if someone stays with us and let's say they
relapse? It happens if they relapse while in our care, we can step them up to the next higher level of care. And we have a relationship with this client, so it's easier for us. We know them. It's easier for us to keep them in our care as opposed to referring them out. Because what happens when we refer them out many times they don't make it to the next facility. When
Right?
we refer them to a higher level of care vaccine is like, Oh, they didn't make it. And and then next thing you know, they're dead. And I mean, and
Yeah.
it happens.
Yeah, that's. That's the. The logical end result of alcoholism. You die
All
and you give
right?
anybody an opportunity to slip through the cracks, they'll take it.
Mm
It's
hmm.
very dangerous. So it sounds like one of the benefits there is. And you're you're in end to end coverage
Yep.
from beginning to end.
Yep. Exactly. From beginning to end.
What have you learned doing this? What has how how do I get this? How has it It's got to be hard running a recovery center of being the head guy. You're responsible. What has made life better for you being involved with this?
So a couple of things. A I have an amazing team and so it's it's to have a team that I feel really comfortable with that I trust is just makes my life so much better. It also creates a huge amount of accountability. So for me, for this guy, like, there are massive consequences if
Oh,
I
yeah. You've
relapse,
got to walk the walk.
I got to walk the walk. So that's the thing is me walking the walk, being an example, that's the best thing I can do in my opinion. I don't know if it's true, but in my opinion, my experience, if I walk the walk, then at least it's like the parent that says Do what I say, not what I do.
Right. So if I'm walking the walk, if I'm going to meetings, if I'm sponsoring guys, if I'm taking care of my health, taking care of my self-care, I'm I pray, I meditate, I do ice bath, I do red light therapy, I eat healthy, I get enough sleep, I journal I read. I'm constantly learning.
Like, if I'm doing all of these things, then not only do I feel good, but I'm also a great example to people that are not only in our care but also our staff, because that's the other thing I learned is that it's not it's not just our clients that I'm helping, that I'm trying to help. I'm also helping our staff because most of them are in recovery.
Yeah.
And even if they're not officially in recovery, they're probably in recovery anyways.
How do you balance the anonymity aspect? So in AA, there's an anonymity aspect. If you're going to run a center and be the CEO, you got to be out there, You have a podcast or you have your name. It's kind of tough to be anonymous. What are your thoughts on that aspect?
Well, everybody knows not everybody. A lot of people know who I am and they know what I do and I wear my CamelBak recovery hat. I have a podcast. I have I'm all over the Internet. So I don't know. I don't I don't necessarily talk about my business while I'm at meetings, but everybody knows who I am. Everybody knows what I do. And I and that's just me. That's who I am. It's kind of my identity
I
and
struggle with the anonymity aspect because, one, if you're going to do a podcast, you kind of and you want it to be successful, you got to kind of talk about it. And
right.
two, I'm a big I'm a big believer of breaking down the stigma. I think there has to be people like you and me who are out there who we know, because you might be the only person who is the example of somebody in recovery is somebody who I can look at and say, That's a guy who's in recovery. That guy is successful. Maybe I can do it too. And the risk is if we live in the shadows, you don't see who those role models are.
Mm.
And for me, being a role model and being out there is also accountability for me. If I'm doing this podcast every single week, I better stay sober or I'm going to be a hypocrite.
Right. Yeah. There's, there's big consequences. I mean, you've got a lot of people that are looking up to you and going back to Michael Bernoff So he, he, he doesn't drink, he hasn't had a drink since 2000 and I think 18 or maybe 2016. He said he wouldn't consider himself an alcoholic, but he realized it was like New Year's Eve or something like that. And he realized that a lot of people look that looked up to him. He teaches personal development. He's got it. He's got lots of
people that follow him. And so he realized that he's an example. And if he's drinking wine, if he's drinking, if he's having drinks, people are going to they're going to zoom in on the bottle of wine and see what kind of wine he's drinking. And maybe they're going to drink the same kind of wine. So he just decided to stop drinking because he's an example now. He's not an alcoholic, but it just speaks to we're an example. Everything that we do, people are going to
look up to us. And even if we impact one person, if I impact one person, then that's kind of what matters to me. I
Yeah,
want to impact more people
yeah. If you impact that one person, you're going to also that one person then impacts somebody else and it becomes
right?
this glass shattering moment where it just it fans out. How do you find I'm curious about the how do you get enough sleep at night? Because I struggle with it. I have
Huh.
three young kids and it seems it seems impossible. So how are you able to get sleep, take care of your recovery, go to meetings, run a business, get physical fitness. How do you find the time to do all this and balance it?
Well, what are my priorities? And I for a while there I was only getting about 6 hours of sleep plus or minus, and I realized I saw this this sleep specialist, Nick Martone, and he was looking at my aura ring. I wear an aura ring. And the aura ring tracks my sleep and it tracks my REM sleep in my deep sleep. And he was looking at and he's like, I'm telling you, you're not getting enough sleep. And I said, What are you talking about? I feel great. He said, I'm telling you, you're
not getting enough sleep. And then come and then he finds out that I'm taking this thyroid medication.He said, Oh yeah, because you're not getting enough sleep. And so I actually have started instead of waking up at 4:00. And then I was waking up between 330 and four and I started waking it instead. I wake up like at five now. So that extra hour, hour and a half gives me like another hour of REM sleep. So I try to get between seven and 8 hours of
sleep. I try to stop eating a couple of hours before I go to sleep. So that means I'm I'm done eating by like six or seven. And I try to get in bed before 9 p.m.. I mean, if I can get to bed by eight, 830, that's amazing. But I try to get to bed before 9:09 p.m.. So I don't know if I'm answering your question.
I think
I
you are.
just it's
I'm just
it's all it's all about the pressure. And I don't have three kids either. So, I mean, it's like,
three kids, two dogs. They destroy
yeah,
your sleep cycle.
I have two dogs. I have two dogs, but guess what? Their room is all the way on the other side of the house and there's two of them. So they keep each other busy and dogs need more sleep than people do. So it works out.
Yeah, I got one dog. He's got his little bed at the end of our bed.
Uh
But
huh.
in the morning, around the time when I wake up, he jumps on the bed and starts porn at me.
The
That's a natural way to wake me up. Tell me about the podcast. What got you into wanting to podcast and what's your why around your podcast?
so my podcast, I love being sober and it was actually during COVID is when I started it because I was working from my home and I had wanted to start a podcast and Genius network. I'm a member of Genius Network. There's lots of people in that group that have podcasts and they've written books and they're there, there, they're lots of public speakers and so forth. So I was like, okay, this is my chance. So again, not thinking about the how, I just said, okay, I want to start this
podcast. And my the purpose of the podcast is just to put free content out in the world. And if I help a couple of people, then that's really that's it. It's out there for me to help people. And it's not just people that are in recovery, it's not just sobriety. It's all of the things that I do in, in my life. So it's the biohacking, it's the it's the meditation, it's the prayer, it's the I have a lot of people on my podcast that are just around, I would say health
and wellness. I also have people that are in recovery that talk about their journeys through sobriety. I've had a lot of I mean, I think I have close to 200 episodes, so I've had I've had
Yeah.
just the gamut of people on my on my show. I had Dr. Ramani, who's a narcissism expert. I mean, she's got like over a million followers on YouTube. And I've had her on my show a couple of times. She talked we've talked about narcissism as it relates to addiction. So I've had some some really great guests and I put some great content out there.
And and and the other thing I remember thinking, so I get together with people we have coffee, we talk about I talk about my program, they talk about their program, and then we forget about it and then that's it. So why not just get together and have a podcast?
Yep.
We can have the same conversation and it's actually recorded and we're more likely to share information that is more useful because we know it's going to be recorded. We know it's being pushed out into the world. And so that's kind of how I that's kind of how I started it.
Yeah. I think we're kind of in the same ballpark. And the reason why I started this at the tail end of COVID in 2020
Okay.
and I had a previous radio career, so I figured that this would be very easy.
Uh
I'm
huh,
going to take the world by storm. Yeah, it's not that easy. There
right.
are a lot of podcasts out there, and there are people who are wildly successful and they didn't luck
Okay.
into it. I have a
If
really good friend, Jill Teets, who just overpowered and she kind of started her podcast like you did. She got sober and all of a sudden she just sat down and said, I'm going to have to record a podcast and just did it.
yeah,
It's very successful now. But she also puts in this ungodly amount of work into
right,
making it happen with the marketing and going on other podcasts and doing Instagram posts and stuff. This is is not easy depending on what you want to get out of it.
right,
So I think there's enough room for all of us because there's different ways to attack it. I
rig.
struggle with the idea of like what is the best podcast? I don't know. What's your favorite? That's the best one.
Yeah, yeah. Who knows? Who knows? It's I mean, I listen to podcasts and sometimes I listen to a lot of podcasts and sometimes I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. And, and, you know, there's there's the thought that somebody might be lucky. It's like, Oh, they're just lucky. That's not true. Like,
No.
every every single person out there that has a successful podcast, they've worked their ass off for that podcast. I mean, it's like you look at Ben Greenfield, you look at Andrew Huberman and you look at Joe Rogan. I mean, these guys have recorded like thousands of episodes.
Yep.
So it's not, you know, me with my measly 200. It's like I haven't put in the 10000 hours to really become this professional podcast host. And maybe I'll ramp it up one day, or maybe not. I don't know. Who knows
Yeah, I can't see myself stop doing this. I really will. One practical is I spent all this money on equipment and I don't want to let that go to waste. And if there's
right,
anything else, like, okay, I have the equipment, so I have to do this now. But if you're ever thinking in yourself in the podcast game, you have to be a cockroach if you want to be successful, you've got to put out 100, 200, 300, 400 episodes
Right,
and you just outlast everybody else. And if you have good content and you're willing to do the work, you're going to be successful. This is a place that I have my own podcasting recovery around. I'll be happy when I have this download. I'll be happy when this happens.
right,
And it's like and usually when I have that, I get a message from somebody saying, I really enjoyed the podcast. That helped me something simple
right.
like that.
Mm.
And it's like, God dammit, I was being selfish again.
Yeah,
And that's always the reminder. Yeah,
right.
I found you through Ben Tough. I was flipping
Okay.
through, I was listening for Recovery podcast and I stopped when he had Ben tough on
Okay,
and I let it stop me in my tracks. I'm like, Oh my God, this story is amazing.
right.
I had been on a few episodes back. It's just amazing the some of these people that you hear.
Yeah. There's some great stories out there, and it's. It's all about the experience, strength and hope. And. And again, it's like carrying the message, whether it's in AA or not. In AA. And. And, I mean, I'm my, my, in my opinion, it's like I'm. Yeah, I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm not
afraid to share it. And there's a lot of people I am going to be respectful of somebody else's anonymity, but I'm like, I think that I'm not being of service if I'm not telling people that I'm that I'm in recovery like I've got, there's no reason for me to to to not share openly that I'm in recovery because somebody might hear what I have to say and it might help them and they might make a decision to stop drinking or stop doing drugs or or want to be on the same path
or what I have. And if they know that I'm clean and sober, then more likely they might want to join that path as well.
Yeah, I have the same thought. If if I can be confident and say I'm in recovery, I can break the stigma a little bit. I'm very passionate around. If you if you look at like lean manufacturing, Bill W created an anonymity as a Band-Aid because there's such a stigma there will get people in by having anonymity. What if it was the case that we didn't have the stigma anymore? How would the message come to people? Will we get more people
in the doors? Maybe not, but I feel like if we could talk about this more, it would be a good thing. So if I can be one person who's out there and saying, I'm not embarrassed to have had this problem and I'm really proud of what I've learned because I've gone through recovery, I've answered all the questions of why do I feel messed up? Because I had a drinking problem. Now that I've replaced having the drinking problem with something else, that's my new solution. I can be really productive and
helpful to somebody else. So therefore I'm not embarrassed. An you don't have to be either. Somebody new wrap up on this one. Let's say somebody is sober, curious, listening to this. They don't know if they have a problem or not, but they need that example of why should I quit drinking? What would you say to them?
Why should they quit? Well, I can tell you for myself, I originally got clean and sober just to get my wife back. I was like, okay, I'll I'll get sober. I'll do. I could not imagine, not not drinking for the rest of my life. I couldn't imagine it. There's no I mean, I couldn't imagine my life without alcohol. And I and I was originally I was just going to get sober for a little bit to get my wife back. And then I go back to drinking and
it's all good. But what I realized is that my life got better and and when I fully immersed myself into the program of AA and I really and I worked the steps, I worked all 12 steps, I had a sponsor. I took suggestions. I did what other people told me to do because my best thinking got me where I was. I
Right.
wasn't a happy person. I realized I wasn't a happy person. It's like if somebody is sober, curious, If they're happy, they're probably not happy. That's probably why they're sober, curious. And it's like, Hey, if, if, if your life is 100% exactly the way you want it to be, then why? Why would you even consider getting clean and sober? But if your life is not amazing and you don't feel great about yourself and your actions and your behaviors, that's another thing that I think about a lot is the
alcoholic behavior. The alcoholic behavior doesn't it's not necessarily the drinking, it's the behavior. It's the lying, cheating and the stealing. It's the manipulating. It's the it's the sleeping with hookers. When you're married, it's like it's the game. It's the flying to Vegas and gambling 100 grand.
Yeah.
It's the you know, it's doing all of these things that you don't feel good about, that these things that create guilt and shame. And when you create the guilt and shame, then you've got to go and you've got to drink because it's a drinking solution. It's the solution. The drinking is the thing that makes me feel better. So if I can feel better without having to drink or drug, then it's probably a good thing. And it doesn't. I mean, hey, it doesn't happen
overnight either. For me, it's it's like I decided that my life got better and I wanted it to continue getting better and I wanted to change my behavior. And and I hung out with some people that have what I wanted and and so in order for me to get what they had, I had to do what they did.
When
So
I find the thing I love about recovery and I love about 12 step groups is I got to me an experience. People of different religions, different genders, gay people, straight people, black people, white people. And it cuts through the differences that those things don't matter because the only thing that really matters is we have a commonality on wanting to stay sober. And from there everything is just kind of window dressing.
It would be a wonderful world if, I guess we all got forced into a 12 step group regardless and learn what we really have in common and those walls come down.
right.
I really feel like all of those those differences and a 12 step meeting just come down that you see all the like these. It's a weird group in there. They all look different.
And
No, we're not different. We all have the same problem. Tim, where can we find you? Somebody wants to reach you or is the best way to find you.
so you can find me on Instagram. CamelBak Recovery on Instagram, our YouTube channel. It's CamelBak Recovery. I've got my podcast is I love being sober CamelBak recovery dot com. You can go to our website you can learn more about our services CamelBak Integrated health and wellness is I'm not sure what the website is I think it's CamelBak integrated health
Now put it in the description
it
notes.
yeah so so those are the places you can find me and anybody that wants to you can DM me on Instagram or on my YouTube channel and I'll get to you if you if you want to find out more about me and what I did or if there's anything I can do to help. I mean, I'm here to help. So,
Yeah, I love. I love your story. And it's an example of you don't have to create a recovery center. You don't have to be the CEO, you don't have to have 12 different jobs to get there. But if you see somebody like Tim who has accomplished what he's accomplished, think about what is possible. If you decide to put down that drink, it's not there. Putting down the drink is going to make your life boring. It's the thing that is the obstacle that opens the door
to get some of those things. You don't have to be a CEO, but you could and it might be possible. Tim, thank you so much for coming on the show this week.
Matt, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
Yeah, I've been a pleasure here too. We'll see you all next week, everybody. Bye, everybody.