E144: Navigating Life's Twists: From Worries to Triumphs

If you don't have worries and anxiety, you are not a good alcoholic and you're not a good recovered alcoholic in good standing. Thought I'd be rid of this when I went through the 12 steps. And Steve, I am not. They still pop up. How about you? You're a you have a lot more sobriety than me. You've been in a program on and off for many decades. More than me. You must be cured.

Far from cured. I do have a lot less stress and anxiety. I think that might be where we are in our lives more than

Yep.

maybe anything else. Because when I was at your point in your life, you know, when I was at your age and your point with three children, I had two. I was about the same age. And although I didn't work a program as well as you did at the time, I had a lot of anxiety, stress, all that kind of stuff was coming out. So and, you know, I'm older and and, you know, got things got important stuff done so far in my life. So I can I can relax a little bit more and I don't feel

This is always the case. And I never remember that. And I will tell people I work with five months from now, six months from now. Will you remember what you're worried about?

Right.

And the answer is probably

Yeah.

no. I will tell you this, that I'm breaking this year, that this this goes into. You probably shouldn't worry and things will work out. My wife pulled me aside today, so there are some money issues that we have. Mostly because we had to buy outright a minivan back in January and the monthly payment is much higher than what we had before and even since January. Still trying to figure out we

Mm

have this bigger chunk of money going out. What do we need to do here? We had to roll back

hmm.

our 41k contributions.

Right.

We're still contributing, but we were contributing a lot and we had to roll that back. Well, my wife pulled me aside today and said in the area that they're in, there are some financial difficulties. She said, We're in financial ruin. That is her her quote. And they might be doing some downsizing. But what she also said is, but my boss wants to bring me in and make

Mm hmm.

me the chief of staff. That would be her title and it would be

hmm.

a lot more money.

Yeah. Right. It.

Now,

It

I'm sure

does

I work

help.

five times harder than her, but it does help.

Right. sounds impressive.

She's embarrassed. She

listen,

goes, I don't want to be called the chief

you know,

of

you

staff,

guys

but

figure

that's

that

that's

out,

what

and

her title

it's

would be.

something

The chief

that

of

we've

staff. This is always the case. And I never remember that. And I will tell people I work with five months from now, six months from now. Will you remember what you're worried about? And the answer is probably no. I will tell you this, that I'm breaking this year, that this this goes into. You probably shouldn't worry and things will work out. My wife pulled me aside today, so there are some money issues that we

all that I've done the same thing I've been in my life where I was able to contribute a lot to my for one case and then things changed. I was a commission salesperson. What was happening to me is like, is my is my pay plan would change all the time. And I would go from making really good commissions to not being able to make commissions. Like literally overnight. It seemed like whenever that new plan come out was like, it might take me two or three months and those were

And.

So, you know, if I lose three months, that's I'm losing like, you know, I'm losing a good chunk of money if I'm, if I'm not getting any commission for those three months. So there were times when I did that. There were times when I had to cut back. I can remember changing, you know, I'm a big environmental type person as much as possible. I can remember years ago I went to completely

hmm.

you and in your wife, you'll figure it out. It's not easy. It's not easy to do that stuff. It's always, you know, stressful. Right. And that's what we talk about. Stressful. I've been in that position. I really have. And this is an I'm thankful that I'm not today, but I certainly understand and could have a lot of empathy for where you're at right now.

We have a good problem that we ran into last night, but not a financial one that I want to pay for. My son goes to this volleyball camp three days a week. He. It's two games, and another one is beach volleyball outsides to work on his game. He just started volleyball, and he's really gotten into it. And I guess one of the coach runs this volleyball camp. It's probably one of the top volleyball camps in Connecticut.

Wow.

and it would be $75 an hour.

Wow. Yeah.

And she told me that about Ready to Scream or you could split it and it would be like $35 for a half hour. It's like, okay, so there's still that. I'm a little suspicious of this guy, so I think it is worth talking to. My son's coach. But that's a strange place to be of. Hey, we think your son is this good. He would benefit from

But.

one

And

on

I'm

one

sure

coaching.

he would. And a lot

Like

of that

the expensive

is

stuff? We have a good problem that we ran into last night, but not a financial one that I want to pay for. My son goes to this volleyball camp three days a week. He. It's two games, and another one is beach volleyball outsides to work on his game. He just started volleyball, and he's really gotten into it. And I guess one of the coach runs this volleyball camp. It's probably one of the top volleyball camps

right is can you afford it? And, you know, is it something that you want to pursue? My my daughter played premier soccer so above travel league. Right Pretty you know, not a really high end premier but still really, really good soccer. And I always like to tell people like my daughter also played in school and her, you know, her school coach is probably the geography teacher and and her premier soccer league. Her coach was an all American soccer player from the

Yeah.

yeah,

We

right.

are just pouring hundreds of dollars into him with this volleyball.

Yeah,

Hundreds of dollars. And he asks

Yeah, for lots

for more

of reasons.

and more.

And

Oh, I

we

want to

have

do

a granddaughter

this Camp one.

in New Jersey

Do this camp.

who's a big

And we've

dancer,

had to say,

and she's good, she's

Dude,

been

we can't

good enough,

do

and

camp

that's

every

all they

single

do,

night.

right? That's all she does is is do the dance. And they're always gone. They're always doing these shows and they're always doing competitions. And that's. And that's the other thing, right? My, my sisters grew up doing that and that's the same thing. They, they suck you into that and you feel like, oh, I have to let to do this. I have to let her compete, she has to get better, all this kind of stuff. What's the end goal for that? I don't know. And again, I don't know what that is. And I'm glad

Very

of confidence

difficult

and things

life.

like that. So I get it. But it's overwhelming. They they she dances year round and it's tough. So those are the things you do at your age with two kids. Your age. I look at it as, you know, my son was in the scouts and my son would go on these trips as he got older, like your son's age, he would start doing some of these trips. The high adventure, which is going out to Arizona, New Mexico, I think it was. And hiking for two weeks, Like, same thing, thousands of

Oh, my God. There's more fear and anxiety. College is coming up three years away now. Mm hmm. And I think about this because I have fear and anxiety about my job right now. And I'm in. This is this is part of my issue. This is part of my development. I don't know if I trust my own emotions because it feels very uncertain at work. The environment has changed. We've had a very big reorg. Some of the leaders that I used to have are now

Mhm.

gone. There are a whole bunch of new people in with very new ideas, very different ways of doing business from very far away in the country. One of the things that I have as a strength is I'm very resilient. I talked to I did a skip level today with my boss boss, and she talked about how we're really asking people to change what worked for you in the past. How you worked before is not what you have to hold on to today. What you have to do is be willing to change

Mhm.

how we're doing business, because in a national environment, we can't do the same things you're doing regionally. And I kind of looked at her cross-eyed and said,

We always

I'm

had

good

that,

with

you

that.

know we talk about a lot. It's

I

actually

don't

a

get

common

too wedded to any one

you

idea

know, it's a common

and know

theme

that, okay,

a lot

I see

of times

where we're going.

in some topic

We have

discussion

to do some changing.

meetings I'll,

And

you

she

know,

had very

first

mild

of all

feedback

you know if you're,

from

if

me,

you're listening to this one you know what

very

this has to

mild

do with alcoholism.

feedback of you could do this

I'll

or that.

tell you this is that when I, when

I

I felt

look at that,

stressed

I'm like, I feel

before

like I'm pretty

I had

safe

a program,

here.

when I was actively drinking and when I had and trust me, I had lots of financial problems when I was actively drinking. My drinking did not help them, let me tell you. It did not help the fact that I was trying to make sure I had enough money for my booze. But when we had that anxiety and that fear, I know for me I drank to sort of overcome those feelings, to try to make those try to try to forget about those feelings. That's what one of the

Oh,

they're

yeah.

going to shine a light on us and we're going to find like, holy shit, Matt doesn't know what he's doing. How did he survive this? Let's get rid of him now. But that's not the case, right? That's not the case. You work for a big company. you're. You're really competent and what you do, chances are the job's not gonna. There may be reorg, but the job's probably not going anywhere. Yeah. Right, Right. Yeah, I was. Let's in. I was one of the top salespeople, top paid

My

was not

worries always.

anything

I make too much money

that was very

because

difficult

I have gotten

or anything,

very

and

good reviews

they could have easily gotten

and I have

a

performed

new salesperson,

very, very well.

brought

I've taken

him in,

advantage

paid literally

of

paid him,

compounding

paid

raises

them female, female,

and now

half

I look at that

the money

and say,

they were,

Am

they

I

were

making

paying me

too

literally

much

half

money

the money

to

and

be

they would not have been as good and didn't have

of

the connections,

value

but

to

they

the

would

company?

have been okay

That's

for

what

half

I have

the money.

fear

And,

about.

but I always felt that way too. They always like I, you know, I made some good money, especially towards the end of my career. I was really in a good place. I always felt that they were like, Oh, they can get rid of me any day. You know? I made peace with that one day. I do. I really do. I, I, I've talked about I shared in meetings. First of all, I woke up one day and I really did. I was sitting in my office. I work and I was I was going through some of those feelings of those imposter

I

and

know the

effort

story is a good one,

to deal with them, then we could get into trouble. We can get into trouble. And and I know that you don't ignore them. Like when you start feeling that, right, you pick up the phone. You're right. and that's what you need to do. And that's what we all need to do. At least in my program. What I need to do is pick up and call another alcoholic when I'm really stressed out. And. And it's nice. My phone's been ringing a lot and I call other alcoholics, but

but

to be one of the people that they call and it's nice. I love those phone calls. Sit down, take some time, talk to them. and that's and that's a nice thing to do. So,

nope. I picked up the phone yesterday. Oh, good for you. You're doing something right in your program.

yeah,

If you're brand new and you're thinking, if I go to a 12 step meeting or however you get

My

sober

only dirty

or whatever,

secret,

whatever

it's the crux

type of program

of the whole

you might

thing

be

for

in,

me is like I didn't have

they're

those

not

skills

really

too.

around. I

I

used to

didn't

drink,

have those

and

skills.

this is

And

how

I know some people do

I'm

and

either going to learn

everybody's

how to drink

different,

better

but I,

or this

I

is how

did not have

I'm

those

going

skills

to

to

sit

deal

a certain

with

way

the anxieties,

so I don't drink anymore.

the fears,

It's not about the mechanics

all

of drinking.

the disappointments

It's

in

about

life.

your feelings

Like I

and

did

it's about

not

things

have

like this.

the skills to

And

be able

fears

to deal with those

and anxiety

except

can

for

be a trigger for many

picking

people.

up a drink and

It's

getting,

definitely a trigger

you know,

for

getting.

me.

BLITZER

What

Or

I

smoking

have learned

a joint or

going

whatever

through

and

a 12

whatever

step program

it might have been. because

is how to handle

I've come

them,

to this program

that

and because

I'm not alone.

I,

Other

I

people

listen

have

and

them,

because I,

and

you

these

know,

are the

for

things

me,

you

I

need

hang

to do

around with

to

a bunch

get

of

through

really

them.

strong men in this program.

Programs

I've been able

that

to

help

figure

you

that

through

out. And,

addiction

and

are

I

really

and you know

programs

what is when

that help

I'm

you

going

navigate

through this

life.

and I know the same thing happens

If

to you

you have

because

those life

I

skills,

see you at

you

a meeting.

don't need

we

substances

talk about it

to

at

get

our meetings,

through them.

right?

That's

And

the dirty secret.

I went to a meeting last night, right. And there was maybe maybe ten of us there, all guys. So, you know, an outdoor meeting and a fire pit and a dog's playing in the yard and all that kind of stuff. And it's just a beautiful way to have a meeting because those small meetings are exactly where you can put out a lot of stuff and talk about it and you get a lot of feedback on there.

Mm

You get

hmm.

a lot of times to me they're invaluable. They're invaluable to go out and do some of that kind of stuff, you know. it's

Absolutely.

yeah, And know what the other thing is, and it's just sort of a side thing. But what I find is that when you're going through your stuff, we talk about it all the time. It's like you reach out and you help somebody else, right? That does it. That's the other thing that we always talk about when you when you're feeling the feeling these feelings and you're going through this anxiety,

When I

one

was thinking

of the ways

of this

to

topic,

handle that is really

I was thinking about

go

the fear

do something

and anxiety

for somebody else

and

ready

then

to

thinking

go. And

about

it doesn't

vulnerability

have to be in the program.

and

But

realizing

if it is

these

what

are

I

a

would

lot

just

of the

go

same

do

topics.

something that takes you

I

out

wasn't

of your own,

vulnerable

your own space

before.

for a while.

I

and

wasn't

I had the

asking

opportunity today

for help.

to do that. I went to see a friend

The

of ours

cure

who, you know, recently

is to be

lost

as vulnerable

her husband

as

and

possible

spent about,

and to extend

you know,

trust

maybe 3

to other

hours

people,

up there,

especially

had some lunch

other

and

people who are going

then talked

through

to her

the same

and talked

predicament

to her about,

you

you know,

are.

what can we

They

do to help.

may have

And

answers

she had

because

a couple

they

of little

went through

things

it.

that she was struggling

They may

with.

be suffering

I'm like, all right,

the same

let's

thing.

go see

And

if

then

I can help

you

you fix

both

them.

feel you're

And

not

before

alone.

I left, I had helped her fix a couple of things that were just

You get

hanging

that validation.

out there. You know,

It'll help you through. You don't need

And

a drink

that

for that. You

allows

can have a conversation

me to spend

and feel

a few

better.

hours out of my own head doing something nice for somebody else. and I had the opportunity today to do that. I went to see a friend of ours who, you know, recently lost her husband and spent about, you know, maybe 3 hours up there, had some lunch and then talked to her and talked to her about, you know, what can we do to help. And she had a couple of little things that she was struggling with. I'm like, all right, let's go see if I can help you fix

Mm hmm.

Mm Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah, Absolutely. And sometimes that's all we can do, you know, I've said it, and I haven't had to say it in a while, right? Sometimes. I used to shop at meetings, and that was all I could do was just show up. I couldn't participate. I didn't have a lot of thought. My head wouldn't allow me to sort of really listen to the topic and hone in on it. I just physically had to show up and be there and that that was effort

When

at

you talked

some at

about

some

strong

time points

people,

of my sobriety.

she came

Just

to mind.

it was a lot of work just to

I

show

don't know

up

if she

and

would

I did

give

that,

herself credit

so I didn't drink.

as

That's

being

why I did

a strong

it.

person.

Because usually those days

I

where I

consider

was really struggling

her incredibly

like that

strong.

would be

If

days

you think about

that I would

losing

typically

a husband

want to drink I had

who

a rule.

had

I

a terminal

did an

illness

early sobriety.

for a decent

if

amount

I felt

of time,

like shit

living

like that,

through

I

that

went to a meeting, like

strength

I just went

sometimes

to a meeting

is just.

because at that

I

time

get

I was

up

working

out of

in

my

an office.

bed every day

I was working every day in

and

an office.

I

This

live

was

the

long

day

before we all worked

that

from

low,

home

that low

and,

bar of

you know,

I'm

so I'd

just

get home.

I'm going

And if

to meetings,

my life, if things

I'm

were rough

continuing

at home

to

or whatever

be

it might be,

alive

I was out the door

and try and

for

muddle

a meeting

through

because

sometimes.

that

That's

would just

incredible

eat up.

strength

I would

just

eat

to

up

be

a couple

able to

of

do

hours.

that.

By the time I drove there, I got there and I got home. I would eat up a couple of hours of my night and then I could come home and I could go to bed. And it was simple as that. But yeah, I agree with you. This person is very strong. I think she understands that she, she handles a lot.

Mm

She

hmm.

was, she actually was in a very good place. I was very happy to see her the first time. I spent a lot of time with her since that happened. I was really happy to see how at least, you know, I'm, you know, for this day, right? For this day. This time, she was really good. And she's been able to handle a lot of stuff at the house by herself. And I was I was pleased with that. Mm mm. Mm mm.

This

like

is

I said,

where you

I

can help another

got

person,

something. I got a great

Someone

gift

like

from

our

this

friend

program.

who

For

has

me,

gone

the

through

program was

a

Alcoholics

terrible

Anonymous.

year,

I try

had

to

loss,

make sure that I give back

had

for

to suffer

that gift

through that Loss

because it's

of

something

being present

that, been incredibly, incredibly

can be an

valuable

inspiration

to

for

me

other people, even

and,

when you don't

and

realize

if I could just

it.

try to

I think

help

about,

other people,

you know, sometimes you

you

said

know,

sometimes the

see

best I

the

can

value

do is show

in that

up

and

to a meeting.

change your life. Right?

You

The

might

meeting

be

went

underselling

to last night.

yourself

There was a guy

because

with

sometimes

who I've seen

if

before.

you show up to a meeting,

I don't, I didn't know him that

there

well,

can

but

be a

I

better

have seen

meeting

him before.

for somebody else

But he had too much,

that if a couple

which

people

means

who just

that if

always

I seen him before,

show up

that means

to

he

that

probably

meeting,

I've been struggling

stop

in and out

showing

a bit.

up that

you

meeting

know, I

might

just.

go

I

away,

hope a guy like him

or the quality

can

of sobriety

show up

there

and

might not be good enough for

yeah,

the new person.

if he. If he comes Friday

There's

night,

always

they'll see

going to

me

be

there

people

and

filing

start seeing,

in

oh,

and

this,

out

this

of meetings,

is what this guy does to

but

stay

having

sober.

even

Right.

if it's like two

And

or three

not only

people

me,

who

like

are

all

that

the guys

core

around

who

this

are there

camp

every

are, most of them

single time,

will go to this Friday night meeting I go

that

to.

can

It's like,

be the

oh, this

stability

is what these guys do.

for somebody

They show

else.

up and go to meetings, you know, So hopefully he can learn from that and and, you know, work on a program that will help him

Yep.

right? Absolutely. Now that that was huge for me. It was huge for me being able to find some people that I was comfortable with. And I used to ask people all the time, especially I used to ask people all the time, where else do you go to meetings? You know, for people that I liked especially, I would say, where else do you go? And they said, Oh, I go here on Tuesday night. So I go here on this night and I go ahead.

Mm hmm.

I had a lot of things where I did not want to be home. Like my sure about it many times. My marriage is very much struggling, very much wasn't sure if we were going to make it. And so the best thing for me that I could do at that time was be out of the house and I would work all day and I would come home and I would decide, you know something? I need to get out of here for an hour or two. And I would go, Oh, so-so, you know, my buddy Edson said that he goes here on Tuesday nights,

That

and

was important

I would know

to me early

that most

on,

nights I would

is

be Hellcats

seeing

and I'd be

some

LC

people

And

that

then

I

I would

typically

get to know some of the

saw

other guys

going

like, Oh,

to

some of these guys

a few

go to

meetings

the Thursday night meeting.

and I could

So

just tag

same

along

thing.

and know,

I

okay,

would be

I

able to

know

show

those

up at these

person.

meetings

They go to these

and always

three meetings,

know somebody. And

I

even

know I'll be

today

safe

I do

there

that

because at least

like

I'll know

even

some

today,

people

like any night of the week,

because it's scary.

I could

It's

go,

scary when you first

I

start

could

and you

go

go to

say,

these

okay, and this

these

night

meetings

I want to

and

go out to a

church

meeting.

basements

Where am I going to

with

go?

these shady looking

And

people,

based upon

some

I'm going

of

to

these

know

people

people at that meeting,

and, you know, why do I belong here?

oh, man, these steps are made for fear and anxiety, right? I mean, certainly, you know, you're going to you're going to work on some of the stuff when you do four and five for sure and then. Right, Right. Absolutely. yeah, there's, there's no question about it that the steps are going to help you with that. And then you're going to really you're, you're going to go through that right? Three and then four and five, you're going to really deal with

Yeah,

and even in sobriety, I would take those feelings and I would hold on to them

Yeah, me too.

and I would try to milk them for all the pity I could get for myself, You know, like poor me. Poor me.

What do you think in terms of step work, fear and anxiety? What are steps

All right.

that you can use to help you out? Yeah, I'm thinking step three alone.

Mm

Sometimes there's some prayer, some meditation that's going to help.

mm,

No.

mm.

I've done some. I've done some roller coaster therapy, which has helped me in this, that we have these season tickets, the Six Flags. And I've never gone on roller coasters or any exciting ride in my life. But we have these things and on one hand, I want to take advantage of the ticket that I have, and the other hand is

yeah,

I don't want to be barred from an experience because I have fear. So I started going on these roller coasters, Superman. The ride is the one I had been waiting for. Superman,

yeah,

The ride, if you don't know, it is kind of what you think it is. It's the biggest roller coaster in New England. It goes up to about it's the highest roller coaster, goes

yeah.

about 77 miles an hour. It goes way up like you. You time it out. It's about a minute that you're going up. And if you see it from the ground, it looks like, why the hell would I ever go on that? That looks scary as hell. And it's it's long. It goes a long, long way. And I wasn't going to go on at the last time. And I finally said, I got to do this, I got to do this. And so my son sat next to me, which I was grateful for, and I

It might.

the thing

It wouldn't

I fear

be the course I would take,

is the things

the path

I cannot

I would take.

control. Because when you get to the top in the roller coaster

yeah,

goes over and you've turned that

Although

potential

I,

energy

although

into

I have

kinetic

some,

energy,

you know, there, there it has

it's

some promise

the thing

to

of

it if you can

you've

do that

got

and if

to

you can

go

get through

from

it and

the

go

top

and then,

to the station.

and then go back

There's

and do

no

it

way

again

you

and

can

maybe

stop and

at

you have

some

to just

point

go

even

with

and

it

get some enjoyment

and you have to

out

go

of

wherever

it.

that train's

It's

going,

been a long

be

time

it upside

since I've been

down

on that super.

or

My

on the side

my kids are

or faster

you know, I

up

took

and

my

down

kids there, too, and

through

my kids

the tunnel.

are my

And

youngest

there's nothing

is 30.

you can

So

do to stop it. And

it's

I

been a while.

don't like that

And

lack of control.

and I can remember

I

when I

finally

went on there, it was

realized

like

that thing.

I was like, man,

I

I'm

went

not sure

on the sky

why I went

screamer,

on this ride.

which I realized

You know,

was a mistake,

like you

was

do. You get

a

up

mistake.

to the top of

This

that Superman

is a swing

ride and you can

that

see

goes

the Connecticut

up 425

River, you know, like, Wow,

feet and

I'm

swings

up here,

out

man.

at 40

I go

miles

up

an

there

hour

and then it just

and