E143: Happiest Sober: Madeline Forest on Quitting Drinking and Finding Support and Helping Others

people outside our borders. And this is so great that we have the technology to do this. But now we're going north as opposed to going south. We're going north to Canada our guest this week is the host of The Happiest Sober Podcast. Madeleine Faust. Madeleine. Welcome to the Sober Friends podcast.

So I grew up in a house where alcohol was a very, very big topic of conversation. Like, it was something my mom was very open with us about. My mom hated rules, but she had one, and it was we're not allowed to drink. And we all followed that. Like, we I never drank until my mom told me I was allowed to drink.

And so when I very first did drink and get drunk and like I really did,I had this mentality growing up of like, I never want to drink, like I never want to drink to get drunk, like I had sort of all of this knowledge going into it. But when I did first drank, it quickly became something I really love to do. But the very first time I ever got drunk, I woke up the next day with so much anxiety, like crippling anxiety. And I wasn't someone who struggled with

anxiety before that. And that stayed with me for the whole ten years that I drank. I always really, really struggled with anxiety the next day and a lot of shame the next day. And it just got progressively worse and worse and worse. And I definitely I think I existed on sort of the grey area of the spectrum. I never really hit a rock bottom. I didn't have really many, like, external consequences of my drinking, but I definitely drank too much. I

knew it was problematic. And it really, really affected my mental health. And that was eventually what gave me the push to get sober was just like, I can't keep feeling this way anymore. I just kind of hit my own, like emotional bottom of being done with that. So when you talk about anxiety, like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like,

what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on Yeah. there. Oh my God. It was like I would wake up in the morning and I would whether or not like, you know, sometimes I didn't remember the night. Sometimes I did. But if I didn't, Right. I would just be like, worst case scenario, Right. what did I do? What did I say? Did I embarrass

myself? Are people mad at me? If I did remember night, I would be like, But what if I think I remembered the night? And I don't know, I did something awful that I don't even Okay. know, that I Yeah. don't remember. Like it was just worst case scenario. And I think what's interesting is that I have read a lot now, like when I got sober, I read up on the fact that alcohol actually like chemically causes anxiety, which I never know when I was I never knew

when I was going through it. But I think also because of like the upbringing I had and because of what a big topic Mm. of conversation alcohol was. And I think I had this mentality of like the first time I got drunk, I think I felt heightened shame about it because I knew so Right. much and I think I was hard on myself and felt very like, Oh, I've done something really wrong here by getting drunk. Like I think that did play into it as well. For me.

Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic Okay. mom who did get sober. Yeah, Who didn't get sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do yeah, that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the

things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. right. And I mean the exact same place. Wow. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us. And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So Yeah. yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, Mm.

you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger Yeah. and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into Yeah. Do you think it heightened it for you as well because of your mom? oh In the opposite way, though? I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did. Mm hmm. Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did.

Yeah. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. Right. And myself. Yeah. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Oh, interesting. Okay. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help that we know Wow.

of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, Yeah. you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story Yeah. How much? Like our parent watching our parents, no matter right. what their story is, it can really play into how we feel about our own. For sure. Yeah,

induced. When I drink too much, Mm. I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know, juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be yeah, the way you described yeah, yeah. it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not

so low, so I. I decided. I decided, like my sister's birthday, my sister's 30th was like, a few weeks away, and I was like, that's my end date. I'm. I'm quitting. After her birthday. And I got on. I started looking at sober Instagram accounts, which was super, super helpful for me at that time. I got honest with my mom about it for the first time in ways that I hadn't. I she ended up being my main like support system through that time. I read so many books like I was

obsessed with Quetelet. I read more than I've ever read in like my early sobriety. Yeah, And I joined a virtual support group called The Luckiest Club, which is hosted by Laura McCowan, author of the book We Are the Luckiest. Yeah, those were kind

induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know, juggling

the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, The anxiety situation I can totally relate to because I had the same situation and I knew the difference in the anxiety of general anxiety and the day after drinking. Because the only way I can describe it is when I drink too much caffeine, I start getting jittery and my blood sugar starts to get kind of crazy. And I know it's absolutely linked to the coffee. And that anxiety just felt different. It felt like it was This is definitely

chemically induced. When I drink too much, I feel that zing of zing and I am off to the races and feel terrified. While you were talking to that, if I had the Sabre dance Sound effect, that's that music where you see like the jugglers, you know,

juggling the plates. That's what I feel your soundtrack would be the way you described it of that your juggling with the with the drinks and that feeling of the pounding music there and almost in control, but not so If you're brand new and you feel some of those things, you're listening to the Right podcast, you're listening to the right people because this is normal. If you're drinking too much. Mm hmm. This is a big deal in the community. Huge podcast. She has

what was scariest. What was the one thing that you think was that got you most terrified to do this? I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey,

you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah, I felt the same way. That was one of my big issues, is I could tell people I'm not drinking for now, but as soon as I said I'm not drinking any more because I have a problem or I'm an alcoholic or the alcohol use disorder, however you want to identify, If I do that, th I can't go back because your point, your finger at me. And that was my greatest fear that I didn't want to be called by you. Hey, you got a problem? You better stop. Yeah,

myself? Are people mad at me? If I did remember night, I would be like, But what if I think I remembered the night? And I don't know, I did something awful that I don't even know, that I don't remember. Like it was just worst case scenario. And I think what's interesting is that I have read a lot now, like when I got sober, I read up on the fact that alcohol actually like chemically causes anxiety, which I never know when I was I never knew when I was

going through it. But I think also because of like the upbringing I had and because of what a big topic of conversation alcohol was. And I think I had this mentality of like the first time I got drunk, I think I felt heightened shame about it because I knew so much and I think I was hard on myself and felt very like, Oh, I've done something really wrong here by getting drunk. Like I think that did play into it as well. For me. Okay. Yeah, yeah, right. Wow. Yeah. Mm. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you think it heightened it for you as well because of your mom? In the opposite way, though? Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. How much? Like our parent watching our parents, no matter what their story is, it can really play into how we feel about our own. For sure. Mhm. Oh. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. It totally is. And yeah, it was awful. It was crippling for me. Absolutely crippling. Mm hmm. So I and it's so funny. I woke up after the most uneventful night of

drinking ever. Nothing had gone wrong. I was just like, with one of my closest friends. I woke up, I got a text from her, like, Thanks for such a great night. Love you. Like, no reason to feel that way. But I did. I felt so low, so I. I decided. I decided, like my sister's birthday, my sister's 30th was like, a few weeks away, and I was like, that's my end date. I'm. I'm quitting. After her

birthday. And I got on. I started looking at sober Instagram accounts, which was super, super helpful for me at that time. I got honest with my mom about it for the first time in ways that I hadn't. I she ended up being my main like support system through that time. I read so many books like I was obsessed with Quetelet. I read more than I've ever read in like

my early sobriety. And I joined a virtual support group called The Luckiest Club, which is hosted by Laura McCowan, author of the book We Are the Luckiest. Yeah, those were kind of my yeah, she was. She was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those were kind of the main things that I did. But yeah, it was it was hard. Was really scary. It's freakin scary to take that leap and to even just, like, get honest with yourself and, like, almost like, come out to people about it, especially when you're

not someone. Like for me, a lot of people in my life didn't realize I struggled with drinking the way that I did. It looked pretty okay from the outside. So it's it's scary to to kind of fess up about it. I think I think just the feeling of like once I say this, there's no turning back because even if I like even though technically yes, I could say this and then go back to drinking, then I I'll

feel like a failure. I'll feel like people are going to be like judging me, drinking like it was very much like for me, I wasn't ready to really tell people until I was ready to commit to it. So that was the scary part for me. Yeah. MM mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's like a way of it's I mean, it's a frigging accountability tool to tell people because. Yeah, then you can't go. Like even if you go back, you feel like you're going back with their judgment

and they're watching you. And yeah, that's, that was a scary part for me for sure. Okay. Yeah, yeah, right. Wow. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it heightened it for you as well because of your mom? In the opposite way, though? Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. How much? Like our parent watching our parents, no matter what their story is, it can really play into how we feel about our own. For sure. Mhm. Oh. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. It totally is. And yeah, it was

awful. It was crippling for me. Absolutely crippling. Mm hmm. So I and it's so funny. I woke up after the most uneventful night of drinking ever. Nothing had gone wrong. I was just like, with one of my closest friends. I woke up, I got a text from her, like, Thanks for such a great night. Love you. Like, no reason to feel that way. But I did. I felt so low, so I. I decided. I decided, like my sister's birthday, my sister's 30th was like, a few weeks away, and I was like, that's my end date.

I'm. I'm quitting. After her birthday. And I got on. I started looking at sober Instagram accounts, which was super, super helpful for me at that time. I got honest with my mom about it for the first time in ways that I hadn't. I she ended up being my main like support system through that time. I read so many books like I was obsessed with Quetelet. I read more than I've ever read in like

my early sobriety. And I joined a virtual support group called The Luckiest Club, which is hosted by Laura McCowan, author of the book We Are the Luckiest. Yeah, those were kind of my yeah, she was. She was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those were kind of the main things that I did. But yeah, it was it was hard. Was really scary. It's freakin scary to take that leap and to even just, like, get honest with yourself and, like, almost like, come out to people about it, especially when you're

not someone. Like for me, a lot of people in my life didn't realize I struggled with drinking the way that I did. It looked pretty okay from the outside. So it's it's scary to to kind of fess up about it. I think I think just the feeling of like once I say this, there's no turning back because even if I like even though technically yes, I could say this and then go back to drinking, then I I'll

feel like a failure. I'll feel like people are going to be like judging me, drinking like it was very much like for me, I wasn't ready to really tell people until I was ready to commit to it. So that was the scary part for me. Yeah. MM mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's like a way of it's I mean, it's a frigging accountability tool to tell people because. Yeah, then you can't go. Like even if you go back, you feel like you're going back with their judgment

and they're watching you. And yeah, that's, that was a scary part for me for sure. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. It totally is. And yeah, it was awful. It was crippling for me. Absolutely crippling. Mm hmm. So I and it's so funny. I woke up after the most uneventful night of drinking ever. Nothing had gone wrong. I was just like, with one of my closest friends. I woke up, I got a text from her, like, Thanks for such a great night. Love you. Like, no reason to feel that way. But I did. I felt

so low, so I. I decided. I decided, like my sister's birthday, my sister's 30th was like, a few weeks away, and I was like, that's my end date. I'm. I'm quitting. After her birthday. And I got on. I started looking at sober Instagram accounts, which was super, super helpful for me at that time. I got honest with my mom about it for the first time in ways that I hadn't. I she ended up being my main like support system through that time. I read so many books like I was

obsessed with Quetelet. I read more than I've ever read in like my early sobriety. And I joined a virtual support group called The Luckiest Club, which is hosted by Laura McCowan, author of the book We Are the Luckiest. Yeah, those were kind of my yeah, she was. She was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those were kind of the main things that I did. But yeah, it was it was

hard. Was really scary. It's freakin scary to take that leap and to even just, like, get honest with yourself and, like, almost like, come out to people about it, especially when you're not someone. Like for me, a lot of people in my life didn't realize I struggled with drinking the way that I did. It looked pretty okay from the outside. So it's it's scary to to kind of fess up about it.

I think I think just the feeling of like once I say this, there's no turning back because even if I like even though technically yes, I could say this and then go back to drinking, then I I'll feel like a failure. I'll feel like people are going to be like judging me, drinking like it was very much like for me, I wasn't ready to really tell people until I was ready to commit to it. So that was the scary part for me. Yeah. MM mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Yeah. It's like a way of it's I mean, it's a frigging accountability tool to tell people because. Yeah, then you can't go. Like even if you go back, you feel like you're going back with their judgment and they're watching you. And yeah, that's, that was a scary part for me for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It totally is. And yeah, it was awful. It was crippling for me. Absolutely crippling. Mm hmm. So I and it's so funny. I woke up after the most uneventful night of drinking ever. Nothing had gone

wrong. I was just like, with one of my closest friends. I woke up, I got a text from her, like, Thanks for such a great night. Love you. Like, no reason to feel that way. But I did. I felt so low, so I. I decided. I decided, like my sister's birthday, my sister's 30th was like, a few weeks away, and I was like, that's my end date. I'm. I'm quitting. After her birthday. And I got on. I started looking at sober Instagram accounts, which was super, super helpful for me at

that time. I got honest with my mom about it for the first time in ways that I hadn't. I she ended up being my main like support system through that time. I read so many books like I was obsessed with Quetelet. I read more than I've ever read in like my early sobriety. And I joined a virtual support group called The Luckiest Club, which is hosted by Laura McCowan, author of the book We Are the Luckiest. Yeah, those were kind of my yeah, she was. She was a big deal.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those were kind of the main things that I did. But yeah, it was it was hard. Was really scary. It's freakin scary to take that leap and to even just, like, get honest with yourself and, like, almost like, come out to people about it, especially when you're not someone. Like for me, a lot of people in my life didn't realize I struggled with drinking the way that I did. It looked pretty okay from the outside. So it's it's scary to to kind of fess up about it.

I think I think just the feeling of like once I say this, there's no turning back because even if I like even though technically yes, I could say this and then go back to drinking, then I I'll feel like a failure. I'll feel like people are going to be like judging me, drinking like it was very much like for me, I wasn't ready to really tell people until I was ready to commit to it. So that was the scary part for me. Yeah. MM mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Yeah. It's like a way of it's I mean, it's a frigging accountability tool to tell people because. Yeah, then you can't go. Like even if you go back, you feel like you're going back with their judgment and they're watching you. And yeah, that's, that was a scary part for me for sure. Yeah. A couple of things. That's where it goes. Oh, All right. So when you talk about anxiety, like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like,

what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she

was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. That's where it goes. Oh, All right.

So when you talk about anxiety, like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Oh, All right. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Oh, All right. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. All right. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. All right. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. So when you talk about anxiety,

like, can you. Do you. Do you know, like, what were you anxious about? Like, were you afraid of your behavior? Like, what was that? You know, I mean, so many had done some work trying to figure out some of that, what was going on, what was going on there. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get

sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us.

And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did.

Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Right.

Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that

she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us. And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's

interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did. Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long

time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Mm. Right. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an

alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place.

And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us. And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's

interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did. Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long

time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. A couple of things. Yeah.It's just interesting because I grew up with an alcoholic, not a sober mom. I grew up in an alcoholic mom who did get sober. Who didn't get sober, but. But throughout my formative years, especially, she was not. And it's funny because it's not funny, but it's interesting because I like to watch my mom were like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Right. I'm not I'm not going to be an alcoholic. I'm not going to drink like my mom. I'm not going to do any of the

things that she's doing. And in the end, I ended up the exact same place. And I mean the exact same place. So, yeah, you know, AA tells us self-knowledge will not fix us. And I'm a perfect example that I know self-knowledge can't fix me because I know everything there is. And I had a relapse of my story too. So yeah, so it's

interesting and I agree. I think I think the shame on you because your mom was sober was probably so much more, you know, and the fact that you guys talked about it so much when you were younger and Yeah, have really, really put some shame and anxiety into oh I don't want I didn't feel that. I'm sure it did. Especially, you know, I didn't get to that point for a long

time, but I'm sure it did. And I'm sure at the end when when I started realizing like, Oh man, I'm at this same exact spa drinking myself to a passing out every night. Yeah, it was a lot of disappointment, I think. Right. And myself. Right. And myself. Because at that time, at that time, my mom was sober. Right. So she had gotten sober. And again, I don't wanna tell my story here, but she had gotten sober on her own. No, no help

that we know of. And but yeah, so at that point, she was sober and here I was in my late thirties walking into the rooms away, you know. But anyway, so yeah, it's just interesting to hear some of that same story right. it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens? Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. so. So you realized you needed to do something about it. And then what do you do? What happens?

Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Yeah, Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. yeah. Yeah. A couple of things. Yeah. A couple of things. if you're new in listening to this or if you're, like I said, you're just looking for a couple, You're wondering about your own

drinking is it can be scary. It can Mm be scary at the beginning and, and it can be hard to raise your hand if you go to AA and say, Hey,I'm an alcoholic or whatever it is, tell a friend or tell a supporter of some type and say, I think I have a problem. That's a really, really big step. So Yeah, if you're out there and you're thinking, Oh, I'm free to do that, that's okay. That's okay that you're afraid to do that. Yeah. I think It takes I think time. we're all I mean, I think we

were all afraid of something. I know when I came in, I had a pretty bad I don't know, it was a pretty bad bottom drinking wise, s it was a little bit easier Mm for me. It's easier when you have a bad bottom. hmm.

You know, it's one of those things where if you don't have, like you said, you had a normal night of drinking and it's pretty hard to say, Oh, I'm sure if you called up that friend that you were out with and said, Hey, I think I have a problem, she would have probably said, What are you talking about? Yeah. Right. Cause she doesn't know. But when you talk to somebody like your mom who sort of understands

Yeah. Yeah. I think this is a little aside, Steve, but I am curious when we talk about quetelet. What I think about a Laura Macallan or I think of Laura Cathcart, Robyn's with her book stash or Annie Grace And Grace is one of the big ones with like recovery literature. How much do you think that non that non-conference improved literature gets read with AA members is there like is that like an outsider a thing or do you think that people do read that? Because I feel like that's for the others.

Yeah. is it's the same thing. It seems like women do a lot more quit reading, No, I think it's outside. I do. I think it's outside for the most part. And we just talked about this last night. I last week. Right. With our guest is it's the same thing. It seems like women do a lot more quit reading, than men do that at least the men I know. Right? But hmm. most women I know are a guy, so. And some of them are very much like, Listen, we Matt and I do a

lot of that stuff. We, you know, we share some stuff of what we're reading and things like that. But I think for most people in AA, it's pretty much standard. You know, you're going to you're going to stay and stay with some of the stuff conference approve stuff. I just like to read. So I like, you know, I like reading some of that stuff and. Yeah. I'm curious. Uh, I think I think the conference approved literature is good and yeah.

I think there is a place for the other stuff just to keep current on what's going on. Oh, me too. Oh, without question. I don't think there's any question that there's a lot of really good stuff out there now. And. And it's hard. It's really hard because, like we talked about last week, a lot of it's written by women, and I think that's why women are attracted to it, Mm. because they can identify with

it a little bit more.And I think that may be why some of the guys stay away from it, you know, So. Madeline How did your mom take all of this? Because from the parent of three kids, 15, 11 and nine, Oh. and my greatest terror is my kids become alcoholics where they have Mm problems of drinking and drugs. And my 15 year old has never drank before, and he's told me I'm never going to drink because this is a family issue. And I'm like, Mhm. hmm. you can't make that decision yet. And I love that

you're saying that. And I'm afraid that you can't commit to that yet. But I think empathizing from your mom, how did she deal with this? Was she terrorized by this? What was that like

at all. But she was so supportive and she made it really safe for me because she really gave me the space to figure it out on my own while I was trying to figure it out. Like she didn't make it feel like I had to get sober for her because she wanted me to. She was kind of just like a sounding board, even when I was like in my phase of, like, trying to figure out what I needed to You do know. and what I wanted to do and what this was

and all of that. So she was she was a support and, and yeah, she was my, my biggest cheerleader. And she was like, Oh, God, I wouldn't have I don't think I could have done it without her when I did. But she was excited for me, like, I remember having a like, like, oh my God, I called her every day and we were in lockdown, right? It was COVID times. And Right. I Yeah. remember so many times calling her crying and being like, I'm never going to have fun again and life's Yeah. never going to

be the same again. And her being like, Matty, you going to love it. I promise you. You're going to love that your life is going to get so much better, like because my mom really like, I mean, she was a great role model for me. She's lived a very just happy, sober life. She doesn't miss out on anything. She lives her life to the fullest and does things and just does them without drinking. So she's she's a great example of that. But I still had trouble believing it at the time when Right.

I was kind of in my grieving phase of alcohol. But no, she she was very, very supportive. And yeah, it' it's been an awesome thing for us to kind of bond over. And it's made me understand her better because there are so many conversations we never would have had if I hadn't gone through getting sober because she's been sober my whole life. I never thought to ask her that much about it.

And then when I was going through it, I had a million questions for her of like, Well, what did you do with this and how is this for you? And even just I was 27 when I got sober, and I remember saying to her, like, I still have some of my twenties life, like maybe I'm doing this too early. And she was like, How do you think I felt like Right. she was 21? Like, I just have such a oh my God, such a greater appreciation for how young she did it. But no, she was she was so, so, so

supportive. And I think she always knew it was something I was going to need to do eventually because she saw the red flags. But I don't think she realized at the time how much I was struggling with Yeah. it. You know it's interesting I it's one of the things, one of the regrets I have is I never talk to my mother about MM her getting sober and I'm not sure why. Right. And I'm not sure why I didn't do that. And it's one of the regrets I have.

Like I've never said, cause like I said, far as I know, my mom didn't do anything. And I'm sure she and that's I mean, I'm sure she did something hmm. right. Whether even if it was she was very you know, she was very religious and faithful to a religion, even if it was just that. But I never talked to her about that. And I think early on that, again, that's a little bit my story where when I first came into a I didn't stay around for that long, um, Right.

even though I didn't drink for a long time, I didn't stay in the program for a long time. And, and I don't know if there was shame involved with that or what, but Mm hmm. I'm really happy that you had that time with your

and I'm not even kidding. Like, it wouldn't make 40 minutes. Never mind four days. Right. So she can understand that. She doesn't Mm understand hmm. how that works. But if I talk to Matt or somebody else or yourself, you guys understand how we feel, right? And that's what it's about. The feelings, right? For That's what sure. a lot of us drink because we drink over our feelings. Mm. So it's really special, really

share something. Not that I'm wishing that your kids become alcoholics, Matt, because I'm there cause I got a couple kids of my own, and it's the same thing. It's one of the things I worried about. I don't think I have that anxiety over because I have no choice what genes get passed on to my kids. I mean, they Mm are hmm. I only have the genes I have. And if and if there is a gene effect, if there is some type of, then there's nothing I can do about it. But neither of my kids

drink to excess. They both drink some. Um, Yep. and again, they've known me, they know my struggles and they know this podcast. And I told both of my kids, I'm like, Hey, I'm doing this podcast. Listen, Mm hmm. if you want, because they'd never heard the stories. Oh, I never wow. I've never told my kids like the horror stories. And I'm like, Listen at your own peril, right?

Like, you're going to hear stuff that really you going to hear stuff that you Y. didn't know and and maybe aren't so pleasant about your dad R. and my mom and my daughter saying, i it okay if I listen? I'm like, absolutely. Go ahead. Listen right away, cause I'm very open on this. And they talk about whatever whatever it is. So, Yeah. um. Well, that's cool that now they can. They can learn if they want to. Right. And, A bit you know. more about Yeah. it.

So, and absolutely and I to hope that my kids never struggle with it. And if they do, th know, you know, they they know where they can go for help. They know they're That's the. the thing. Right, If they do, t they've got their set up. Great for it with right. having sober They, parents. they do so. Right. So Yeah, yeah. absolutely.

such a support system in her and she's been my go to I guess she's my unofficial sponsor Yeah. Hey and honestly sober Instagram was a game changer for me. It was it helped me in the beginning to just read sober accounts like before I even quit drinking when I was struggling with kind of knowing I needed to, but not being ready yet, I would be like hung over, shame, spiraling, and I would go like, read people's sober accounts and Yeah. they really kind of inspired me and

comforted me. And so I started mine really early in my sobriety. And it ended up I didn't realize when I was started it that it would be this, but it ended up being my greatest accountability to all and the kind of community that I've found there has been. Yeah, I think my number one thing for sure. So I think, you know, my mom reading a lot and then being really involved and I've kind of just yeah, I guess just kind of created my own, my own community online.

there. I made sober friends on there.I made sober friends who I then met in real life on there. It was sort of just an outlet for me to kind of like journal and write about where I was at in my sobriety and yeah, I don't know. I just have showed up consistently there for over two and a half years now. And yeah, it kind of just

keep that one. And then it was my two years sober in November and I was like, I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to oh, So I just uploaded it on a total whim and then have just kind of been going from there. So I it's funny because I just kind of put that out. So, so it's just been very on a kind of week to week basis because I didn't have any planning, I didn't have any episodes recorded before I started it. So I've kind of been figuring it out as I go. But

it's fun. I really love doing the podcast.

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? yeah. Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Oh my God, I totally agree. And it's a real it's a very good practice that like, kind of letting go of ego and getting out of your head because Uh huh.

especially like sometimes I do solo episodes where I listen after and I put it out and I'm just like, This is shit. I have a vulnerability Yeah, hangover. I don't think this is any good. I'm just putting it out, whatever. And then I'll get at least like one message, like, Thanks for this. I needed to hear yeah. this today and I'm like, okay, it was That's worth it.

it. Then. I Like, we say that all the time when we get Yeah, a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up exactly. next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again. Yeah, for sure. So

So it's an amazing community. We meet twice a week on Zoom and then have like a private Facebook group where we connect it and yeah, it's it's, it's, it's such an amazing group of people, such a like positive, supportive space where people can just kind of like show up as they are and talk about whatever whatever they're going through and connect with each other. And yeah, it's, it's, it's my favorite thing that I do. yeah. I love it.

See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and Mm. we got sober with, with in that manner. And because these things weren't available, they Yeah, were certainly weren't available when I got sober, right.

especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Yes,

Right. Which is what exactly. we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? Yeah. That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that

community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal Mm. in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear.

because different things are going to work for different people and different Me things too. are going to resonate with different people. And at the end of the day, the thing that I think makes AA powerful is community. And Right, that's exactly what kind of all the other options are now to our sense Right. of community. And I've met some people from my group in real life now Mm and hmm. like have made such amazing connections and we're talking about trying to plan a weekend somewhere at some

point. It's yeah, it's, it's really, really, really cool.

People Mm. are people with much less years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and Yeah. and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. For sure. It is such a common bond like it doesn't matter at all how old somebody is or No.

like it. I feel like it's an instant connector. I it's is like one of my favorite things that I've ever done. I hosted a sober trip to Costa Rica in May, Yeah, and we literally had people on that trip in their twenties, thirties, forties and fifties, like the Yeah, youngest girl was 21, turned 22 on our trip, had her 22nd birthday on our trip, and we all left. They're such good friends. We keep in touch. It's so age is so irrelevant with yeah. with sobriety, I think. I And agree.

I think that's so cool because it is such an instant bond with people. Yeah,

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, Mm hmm. right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more.

it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than More if alcohol was involved. 100%. Yeah. And that was one thing when I got sober that I spiraled about was like, How am I ever going to travel? Because traveling revolved around drinking. For me, that was Mm like, hmm. what I would be excited to do was to, like, go

drink on vacation. And the first trip I ever took sober was just like a little trip to New York. But I remember just sitting in Central Park and being like, Wow, I'm actually like, here. I'm not like, okay, like we saw Central Park. Let's go find a patio and start drinking. Right, Like, Right. I'm actually just here. I'm not rushing through anything. Like it's, it's so much better, so Yeah, much better.

that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you.

Y. R. Yeah. Well, that's cool that now they can. They can learn if they want to. A bit more about it. That's the thing. If they do, t they've got their set up. Great for it with having sober parents. Right. So yeah. Mm. Yeah. So I have never been to AA and nothing against AA. Got my mom sober. I got my dad sober. By the way, he's eight years sober now and I went to the luckiest club meetings in the beginning and I stayed in them for maybe, I think, a few months. Yeah, I

went to the like. So that's the one that Laura McCowan started who wrote We Are the Luckiest. So she started during the pandemic. She started like a virtual support group over Zoom. So I went to those meetings. They got me through my first kind of few months of figuring it out. And I don't know, I just kind of hit a point where I was like, okay, like, I think I didn't feel like I needed to

necessarily go any more. And what where I have found community is I mean, first my mom, like, I have such a support system in her and she's been my go to I guess she's my unofficial sponsor and honestly sober Instagram was a game

changer for me. It was it helped me in the beginning to just read sober accounts like before I even quit drinking when I was struggling with kind of knowing I needed to, but not being ready yet, I would be like hung over, shame, spiraling, and I would go like, read people's sober accounts and they really kind of inspired me and comforted me. And so I started mine really

early in my sobriety. And it ended up I didn't realize when I was started it that it would be this, but it ended up being my greatest accountability to all and the kind of community that I've found there has been. Yeah, I think my number one thing for sure. So I think, you know, my mom reading a lot and then being really involved and I've kind of just yeah, I guess just kind of created my own, my own community online. I you know what? I just I was like, not even a month sober yet

when I started it. And I started it anonymously. At first I was too scared to put my face on it. For the first six months, I was terrified of anyone who I know in real life, finding it. For the first long time. I didn't even tell people in my life about it until I had been doing it for probably well over a year. But I just started showing up there and posting every day and it was it was helpful. I made connections on there. I made sober friends on there.I made sober friends who I then met in

real life on there. It was sort of just an outlet for me to kind of like journal and write about where I was at in my sobriety and yeah, I don't know. I just have showed up consistently there for over two and a half years now. And yeah, it kind of just Yeah, Yeah. Okay. Wow. Mm. Wow. It's it can be totally unpredictable. And sometimes it's just the algorithm, it's unpredictable, and sometimes it's just something in particular that resonates with a lot of people, which it sounds

like that was. So that's really cool. MM Yeah, it was. It was one that I started with a really good friend of mine who I met on sober Instagram, and we just kind of did it together for, for fun and yeah, and then kind of both of our schedules got a bit crazy and hectic and we're in different time zones. Yeah, but it was a lot of fun. And then, yeah, now I'm doing the, the happier sober one.

Yeah, that's honestly how I always knew in my head for probably like a year before I did it that I wanted to start that podcast. And I had talked to my mom about like, maybe I'll start one and then we could do one together. And I just one day, I don't know, I was listening to another podcast and I was like, I kind of want to like play around with what my first episode would be. And I just recorded it and didn't know if I would even do anything with it,

if I would keep that one. And then it was my two years sober in November and I was like, I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to oh, So I just uploaded it on a total whim and then have just kind of been going from there. So I it's funny because I just kind of put that out. So, so it's just been very on a kind of week to week basis because I didn't have any planning, I didn't have any episodes recorded before I started it. So I've kind of been figuring it

out as I go. But it's fun. I really love doing the podcast. Yeah, so true for sure. That's true. That's well-said. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God, I totally agree. And it's a real it's a very good practice that like, kind of letting go of ego and getting out of your head because especially like sometimes I do solo episodes where I listen after and I put it out and I'm just like, This is shit. I have a vulnerability hangover. I don't think this is any good. I'm just putting it out,

whatever. And then I'll get at least like one message, like, Thanks for this. I needed to hear this today and I'm like, okay, it was worth it. Then. Like, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, it's true. Just showing up and like, yeah, it's a, it's a good practice and kind of letting go of perfectionism and like self-criticism of just like however you show up is how you show up and just trust that, yeah, hopefully it'll help at least one person who's listening. Yeah. Oh

yeah. Oh so happy. So rehab is my support group. I, I started doing support groups. I did like a six week holiday one over the holidays, like six weeks support group, get you through the holidays without drinking. And then I did a 12 week group at the start of this year and as it was coming to an end, I just like I didn't want it to end. The people in the group were voicing that they didn't want it to end, and I was like, I love this. I want to just keep going.

So it's an amazing community. We meet twice a week on Zoom and then have like a private Facebook group where we connect it and yeah, it's it's, it's, it's such an amazing group of people, such a like positive, supportive space where people can just kind of like show up as they are and talk about whatever whatever they're going through and connect with each other. And yeah, it's, it's, it's my favorite thing that I do. I love it. Mm. Yeah, right. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Mm. Oh, thank you.

And oh my gosh, I, I totally agree with what you said and I love that because that's the whole, my whole kind of thing is like, it's not about getting sober and being miserable and feeling like you're missing out for the rest of your life. It's about getting sober and realizing you can live a happier life because of it. And yeah, it's it's I think AA is amazing and it helps a lot of people.

But I love that there are other options because different things are going to work for different people and different things are going to resonate with different people. And at the end of the day, the thing that I think makes AA powerful is community. And that's exactly what kind of all the other options are now to

our sense of community. And I've met some people from my group in real life now and like have made such amazing connections and we're talking about trying to plan a weekend somewhere at some point. It's yeah, it's, it's really, really, really cool. So it's not it's not just women, but not necessarily a certain demographic. Yeah, we kind of have people of all ages in there. Yeah. Mm. Yes. Y. Mm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. For sure. It is such a common bond like it doesn't matter at all how old

somebody is or like it. I feel like it's an instant connector. I it's is like one of my favorite things that I've ever done. I hosted a sober trip to Costa Rica in May, and we literally had people on that trip in their twenties, thirties, forties and fifties, like the youngest girl was 21, turned 22 on our trip, had her 22nd birthday on our trip, and we all left. They're such good friends. We keep in touch. It's so age is so irrelevant

with with sobriety, I think. And I think that's so cool because it is such an instant bond with people. Yes. Yes. Me too. Mm. It really does. Mm hmm. 100%. Mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. More 100%. And that was one thing when I got sober that I spiraled about was like, How am I ever going to travel? Because traveling revolved around drinking. For me, that was like, what I would be excited to do was to, like, go drink on vacation. And the first trip I ever took sober was just like a

little trip to New York. But I remember just sitting in Central Park and being like, Wow, I'm actually like, here. I'm not like, okay, like we saw Central Park. Let's go find a patio and start drinking. Like, I'm actually just here. I'm not rushing through anything. Like it's, it's so much better, so much better. Are you knocking Toronto? Matt Uh. New York is a very cool city. Yes, I'm on Instagram happiest

sober. My podcast is happy. It's sober podcast, it's on all podcast platforms, and then my website is happier sober dot com. That's where you can subscribe to my newsletter and then sign up for Happy a sober hub. Uh, thank you so much. And all of that right back at you. You guys are so fun to chat with. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. Yeah, that's honestly how I always knew in my head for probably like a year before I did it that I wanted to

start that podcast. And I had talked to my mom about like, maybe I'll start one and then we could do one together. And I just one day, I don't know, I was listening to another podcast and I was like, I kind of want to like play around with what my first episode would be. And I just recorded it and didn't know if I would even do anything with it, if I would keep that one. And then it was my two years sober in November and I was like,

I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to oh, So I just uploaded it on a total whim and then have just kind of been going from there. So I it's funny because I just kind of put that out. So, so it's just been very on a kind of week to week basis because I didn't have any planning, I didn't have any episodes recorded before I started it. So I've kind of been figuring it out as I go. But it's fun. I really love doing the podcast. Yeah, so true for sure. That's true. That's well-said.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God, I totally agree. And it's a real it's a very good practice that like, kind of letting go of ego and getting out of your head because especially like sometimes I do solo episodes where I listen after and I put it out and I'm just like, This is shit. I have a vulnerability hangover. I don't think this is any good. I'm just putting it out, whatever. And then I'll get at least like one message, like, Thanks for this. I needed to hear this today and I'm like,

okay, it was worth it. Then. Like, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, it's true. Just showing up and like, yeah, it's a, it's a good practice and kind of letting go of perfectionism and like self-criticism of just like however you show up is how you show up and just trust that, yeah, hopefully it'll help at least one person who's listening. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh so happy. So rehab is my support group. I, I started

doing support groups. I did like a six week holiday one over the holidays, like six weeks support group, get you through the holidays without drinking. And then I did a 12 week group at the start of this year and as it was coming to an end, I just like I didn't want it to end. The people in the group were voicing that they didn't want it to end, and I was like, I love this. I want to just keep going.

So it's an amazing community. We meet twice a week on Zoom and then have like a private Facebook group where we connect it and yeah, it's it's, it's, it's such an amazing group of people, such a like positive, supportive space where people can just kind of like show up as they are and talk about whatever whatever they're going through and connect with each other. And yeah, it's, it's, it's my favorite thing that I do. I love it. Mm. Yeah, right. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Mm. Oh, thank you.

And oh my gosh, I, I totally agree with what you said and I love that because that's the whole, my whole kind of thing is like, it's not about getting sober and being miserable and feeling like you're missing out for the rest of your life. It's about getting sober and realizing you can live a happier life because of it. And yeah, it's it's I think AA is amazing and it helps a lot of people.

But I love that there are other options because different things are going to work for different people and different things are going to resonate with different people. And at the end of the day, the thing that I think makes AA powerful is community. And that's exactly what kind of all the other options are now to

our sense of community. And I've met some people from my group in real life now and like have made such amazing connections and we're talking about trying to plan a weekend somewhere at some point. It's yeah, it's, it's really, really, really cool. So it's not it's not just women, but not necessarily a certain demographic. Yeah, we kind of have people of all ages in there. Yeah. Mm. Yes. Y. Mm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. For sure. It is such a common bond like it doesn't matter at all how old

somebody is or like it. I feel like it's an instant connector. I it's is like one of my favorite things that I've ever done. I hosted a sober trip to Costa Rica in May, and we literally had people on that trip in their twenties, thirties, forties and fifties, like the youngest girl was 21, turned 22 on our trip, had her 22nd birthday on our trip, and we all left. They're such good friends. We keep in touch. It's so age is so irrelevant

with with sobriety, I think. And I think that's so cool because it is such an instant bond with people. Yes. Yes. Me too. Mm. It really does. Mm hmm. 100%. Mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. More 100%. And that was one thing when I got sober that I spiraled about was like, How am I ever going to travel? Because traveling revolved around drinking. For me, that was like, what I would be excited to do was to, like, go drink on vacation. And the first trip I ever took sober was just like a

little trip to New York. But I remember just sitting in Central Park and being like, Wow, I'm actually like, here. I'm not like, okay, like we saw Central Park. Let's go find a patio and start drinking. Like, I'm actually just here. I'm not rushing through anything. Like it's, it's so much better, so much better. Are you knocking Toronto? Matt Uh. New York is a very cool city. Yes, I'm on Instagram happiest

sober. My podcast is happy. It's sober podcast, it's on all podcast platforms, and then my website is happier sober dot com. That's where you can subscribe to my newsletter and then sign up for Happy a sober hub. Uh, thank you so much. And all of that right back at you. You guys are so fun to chat with. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. Yeah, it's true.

Just showing up and like, yeah, it's a, it's a good practice and kind of letting go of perfectionism and like self-criticism of just like however you show up is how you show up and just trust that, yeah, hopefully it'll help at least one person who's listening. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh so happy. So rehab is my support group. I, I started doing support groups. I did like a six week holiday one over the holidays, like six weeks support group, get you through the

holidays without drinking. And then I did a 12 week group at the start of this year and as it was coming to an end, I just like I didn't want it to end. The people in the group were voicing that they didn't want it to end, and I was like, I love this. I want to just keep going.

So it's an amazing community. We meet twice a week on Zoom and then have like a private Facebook group where we connect it and yeah, it's it's, it's, it's such an amazing group of people, such a like positive, supportive space where people can just kind of like show up as they are and talk about whatever whatever they're going through and connect with each other. And yeah, it's, it's, it's my favorite thing that I do. I love it. Mm. Yeah, right. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Mm. Oh, thank you.

And oh my gosh, I, I totally agree with what you said and I love that because that's the whole, my whole kind of thing is like, it's not about getting sober and being miserable and feeling like you're missing out for the rest of your life. It's about getting sober and realizing you can live a happier life because of it. And yeah, it's it's I think AA is amazing and it helps a lot of people.

But I love that there are other options because different things are going to work for different people and different things are going to resonate with different people. And at the end of the day, the thing that I think makes AA powerful is community. And that's exactly what kind of all the other options are now to

our sense of community. And I've met some people from my group in real life now and like have made such amazing connections and we're talking about trying to plan a weekend somewhere at some point. It's yeah, it's, it's really, really, really cool. So it's not it's not just women, but not necessarily a certain demographic. Yeah, we kind of have people of all ages in there. Yeah. Mm. Yes. Y. Mm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. For sure. It is such a common bond like it doesn't matter at all how old

somebody is or like it. I feel like it's an instant connector. I it's is like one of my favorite things that I've ever done. I hosted a sober trip to Costa Rica in May, and we literally had people on that trip in their twenties, thirties, forties and fifties, like the youngest girl was 21, turned 22 on our trip, had her 22nd birthday on our trip, and we all left. They're such good friends. We keep in touch. It's so age is so irrelevant

with with sobriety, I think. And I think that's so cool because it is such an instant bond with people. Yes. Yes. Me too. Mm. It really does. Mm hmm. 100%. Mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. More 100%. And that was one thing when I got sober that I spiraled about was like, How am I ever going to travel? Because traveling revolved around drinking. For me, that was like, what I would be excited to do was to, like, go drink on vacation. And the first trip I ever took sober was just like a

little trip to New York. But I remember just sitting in Central Park and being like, Wow, I'm actually like, here. I'm not like, okay, like we saw Central Park. Let's go find a patio and start drinking. Like, I'm actually just here. I'm not rushing through anything. Like it's, it's so much better, so much better. Are you knocking Toronto? Matt Uh. New York is a very cool city. Yes, I'm on Instagram happiest

sober. My podcast is happy. It's sober podcast, it's on all podcast platforms, and then my website is happier sober dot com. That's where you can subscribe to my newsletter and then sign up for Happy a sober hub. Uh, thank you so much. And all of that right back at you. You guys are so fun to chat with. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Mm. Oh, thank you.

And oh my gosh, I, I totally agree with what you said and I love that because that's the whole, my whole kind of thing is like, it's not about getting sober and being miserable and feeling like you're missing out for the rest of your life. It's about getting sober and realizing you can live a happier life because of it. And yeah, it's it's I think AA is amazing and it helps a lot of people.

But I love that there are other options because different things are going to work for different people and different things are going to resonate with different people. And at the end of the day, the thing that I think makes AA powerful is community. And that's exactly what kind of all the other options are now to

our sense of community. And I've met some people from my group in real life now and like have made such amazing connections and we're talking about trying to plan a weekend somewhere at some point. It's yeah, it's, it's really, really, really cool. So it's not it's not just women, but not necessarily a certain demographic. Yeah, we kind of have people of all ages in there. Yeah. Mm. Yes. Y. Mm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. For sure. It is such a common bond like it doesn't matter at all how old

somebody is or like it. I feel like it's an instant connector. I it's is like one of my favorite things that I've ever done. I hosted a sober trip to Costa Rica in May, and we literally had people on that trip in their twenties, thirties, forties and fifties, like the youngest girl was 21, turned 22 on our trip, had her 22nd birthday on our trip, and we all left. They're such good friends. We keep in touch. It's so age is so irrelevant

with with sobriety, I think. And I think that's so cool because it is such an instant bond with people. Yes. Yes. Me too. Mm. It really does. Mm hmm. 100%. Mm. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. More 100%. And that was one thing when I got sober that I spiraled about was like, How am I ever going to travel? Because traveling revolved around drinking. For me, that was like, what I would be excited to do was to, like, go drink on vacation. And the first trip I ever took sober was just like a

little trip to New York. But I remember just sitting in Central Park and being like, Wow, I'm actually like, here. I'm not like, okay, like we saw Central Park. Let's go find a patio and start drinking. Like, I'm actually just here. I'm not rushing through anything. Like it's, it's so much better, so much better. Are you knocking Toronto? Matt Uh. New York is a very cool city. Yes, I'm on Instagram happiest

sober. My podcast is happy. It's sober podcast, it's on all podcast platforms, and then my website is happier sober dot com. That's where you can subscribe to my newsletter and then sign up for Happy a sober hub. Uh, thank you so much. And all of that right back at you. You guys are so fun to chat with. Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.

Got it. Okay. So that's what I misunderstood. What's the luckiest club? Gotcha. It was that process of starting the Instagram because that that's overwhelming. And you have one hell of a following. How did you do that? I did an Instagram live recently because Jill told me I've got to do this regularly, so I'm doing it because the accountability of this is she's trying to help me grow the show and she's like, You need to do this. You need to

do that. And I don't want to deal with her her nonsense if I don't do the stuff. So I did something. I've just recently been diagnosed with ADHD, which is not a shock. I was I was sure I had this and I think I mentioned it in passing, and that was the thing that had some of the most engagement in like the longest period of time. Like people came out of the woodwork.

I got direct messages about it and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm going to put out there that either is going to get people connected, have them feel helped, or have them reach out and say, Hey, I'd like to help you. You can try this, this and this. Like it came out of. I felt like it came out of left field and like, that's the thing that got you engaged. And I'm always like, I'm always shocked. I never know what's going to connect. Yeah. So you did a podcast before the

current one. How did you get involved with that? Because I know that one's not going anymore. Oh, I'm so or. So. It sounds like you started happiest sober, like out of nowhere listening your first EP. It sounds like I wasn't. I was thinking of doing this, but I didn't know, so I just decided to hit record. And here I am. I'm. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some

spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get, you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah,

yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh,

is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December

of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that

tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you

were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you?

Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you

could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. Although we're AA people were curious about other ways that people get sober. We talk a lot of AA stuff because it's just what we know. In your podcast she talked a little bit about that. You went to some

meetings. It doesn't sound like that's your main method of staying sober. Kind of curious, your experience in the rooms and what is it about it that may not have worked and what do you do to keep sober? What's your what's your process of recovery? Hmm. Got it. Okay. So that's what I misunderstood. What's the luckiest club? Gotcha. It was that process of starting the Instagram because that that's overwhelming. And you have one hell of a following. How did you do that?

I did an Instagram live recently because Jill told me I've got to do this regularly, so I'm doing it because the accountability of this is she's trying to help me grow the show and she's like, You need to do this. You need to do that. And I don't want to deal with her her nonsense if I don't do the stuff. So I did something. I've just recently been diagnosed with ADHD, which

is not a shock. I was I was sure I had this and I think I mentioned it in passing, and that was the thing that had some of the most engagement in like the longest period of time. Like people came out of the woodwork. I got direct messages about it and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm going to put out there that either is going to get people connected, have them feel helped, or have them reach out and say, Hey, I'd like to help you. You can try this, this and

this. Like it came out of. I felt like it came out of left field and like, that's the thing that got you engaged. And I'm always like, I'm always shocked. I never know what's going to connect. Yeah. So you did a podcast before the current one. How did you get involved with that? Because I know that one's not going anymore. Oh, I'm so or. So. It sounds like you started happiest sober, like out of nowhere listening your first

EP. It sounds like I wasn't. I was thinking of doing this, but I didn't know, so I just decided to hit record. And here I am. I'm. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get, you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going

to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah, yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out

and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh, is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about

that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough.

What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing

stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You

could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about

another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there.

Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. Although we're AA people were curious about other ways that people get sober. We talk a lot of AA stuff because it's just what we know. In your podcast she talked a little bit about that. You went to some meetings. It doesn't sound like that's your main method of staying sober. Kind of curious, your experience in the rooms and what is it about it that may not have worked and what do you do

to keep sober? What's your what's your process of recovery? Hmm. Got it. Okay. So that's what I misunderstood. What's the luckiest club? Gotcha. It was that process of starting the Instagram because that that's overwhelming. And you have one hell of a following. How did you do that? I did an Instagram live recently because Jill told me I've got to do this regularly, so I'm doing it because the accountability of this is she's trying to help me grow the show and she's like,

You need to do this. You need to do that. And I don't want to deal with her her nonsense if I don't do the stuff. So I did something. I've just recently been diagnosed with ADHD, which is not a shock. I was I was sure I had this and I think I mentioned it in passing, and that was the thing that had some of the most engagement in like the longest period of time. Like people came out of the woodwork.

I got direct messages about it and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm going to put out there that either is going to get people connected, have them feel helped, or have them reach out and say, Hey, I'd like to help you. You can try this, this and this. Like it came out of. I felt like it came out of left field and like, that's the thing that got you engaged. And I'm always like, I'm always shocked. I never know what's going to connect. Yeah. So you did a podcast before the

current one. How did you get involved with that? Because I know that one's not going anymore. Oh, I'm so or. So. It sounds like you started happiest sober, like out of nowhere listening your first EP. It sounds like I wasn't. I was thinking of doing this, but I didn't know, so I just decided to hit record. And here I am. I'm. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some

spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get, you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah,

yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh,

is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December

of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that

tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you

were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you?

Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you

could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. It was that process of starting the Instagram because that that's overwhelming. And you have one hell of a following. How did you do that?

I did an Instagram live recently because Jill told me I've got to do this regularly, so I'm doing it because the accountability of this is she's trying to help me grow the show and she's like, You need to do this. You need to do that. And I don't want to deal with her her nonsense if I don't do the stuff. So I did something. I've just recently been diagnosed with ADHD, which

is not a shock. I was I was sure I had this and I think I mentioned it in passing, and that was the thing that had some of the most engagement in like the longest period of time. Like people came out of the woodwork. I got direct messages about it and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm going to put out there that either is going to get people connected, have them feel helped, or have them reach out and say, Hey, I'd like to help you. You can try this, this and

this. Like it came out of. I felt like it came out of left field and like, that's the thing that got you engaged. And I'm always like, I'm always shocked. I never know what's going to connect. Yeah. So you did a podcast before the current one. How did you get involved with that? Because I know that one's not going anymore. Oh, I'm so or. So. It sounds like you started happiest sober, like out of nowhere listening your first

EP. It sounds like I wasn't. I was thinking of doing this, but I didn't know, so I just decided to hit record. And here I am. I'm. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get, you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going

to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah, yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out

and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh, is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about

that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough.

What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing

stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You

could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about

another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there.

Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. I did an Instagram live recently because Jill told me I've got to do this regularly, so I'm doing it because the accountability of this is she's trying to help me grow the show and she's like, You need to do this. You need to do that. And I don't want to deal with her her nonsense if I don't do the stuff. So I did something. I've just recently been diagnosed with

ADHD, which is not a shock. I was I was sure I had this and I think I mentioned it in passing, and that was the thing that had some of the most engagement in like the longest period of time. Like people came out of the woodwork. I got direct messages about it and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm going to put out there that either is going to get people connected, have them feel helped, or have them reach out and say, Hey, I'd like to help you. You can try this, this

and this. Like it came out of. I felt like it came out of left field and like, that's the thing that got you engaged. And I'm always like, I'm always shocked. I never know what's going to connect. Yeah. So you did a podcast before the current one. How did you get involved with that? Because I know that one's not going anymore. Oh, I'm so or. So. It sounds like you started happiest sober, like out of nowhere listening your first

EP. It sounds like I wasn't. I was thinking of doing this, but I didn't know, so I just decided to hit record. And here I am. I'm. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get, you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going

to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah, yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out

and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh, is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about

that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough.

What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing

stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You

could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about

another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there.

Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. So. It sounds like you started happiest sober, like out of nowhere listening your first EP. It sounds like I wasn't. I was thinking of doing this, but I didn't know, so I just decided to hit record. And here I am. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with

having some spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get, you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah,

yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh,

is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December

of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that

tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you

were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you?

Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you

could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get,

you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah, yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff.

But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh,

is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December

of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that

tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you

were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you?

Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you

could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. I think that's the best way to do it. There's something to be said with having a plan. There's also something to be said with having some spontaneity. If you're in some type of meeting, however you get,

you get sober. One of the thing I learned is if you want to share something, raise your hand early because then you're not thinking about what you're going to say the rest of the time. And too, sometimes you just have to open your mouth and say something. And it's another one of these things. You don't know what's going to connect and help somebody else. So so that that spontaneity just makes for a better episode. Yeah, yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff.

But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh,

is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December

of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that

tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you

were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you?

Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you

could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got

to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh, is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about

that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough.

What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing

stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You

could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about

another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there.

Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. yeah. The key we're getting again, podcast business stuff. But I think the key is you got to grind it out. You got to be a cockroach. You have to survive the nuclear blast and just keep doing it week in and week out and just never stop. And that's how you make the connection, you know. So tell me a little bit about Happiest Sober Hub. What's this

all about? Sell me on this. What am I going to get if I'm looking to get sober, if I join for happiest sober hub? Yeah, that's what he says. Oh, is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics.

And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have

more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without

alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I

would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you

are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. Yeah, that's what he says.

Oh, is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December

of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that

tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you

were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you?

Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you

could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. Yeah, that's what he says. is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about

that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics. And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough.

What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing

stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You

could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about

another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there.

Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. is there a demographic? Is it like all women of a certain age, or is that all over the map? I'm just always curious about that. And then and I find that ends up being like that because the only thing you really have to have in common is you have a problem with drinking. And that cuts across all demographics.

And I just like Steve is Steve is like he's 75 years older than me and we can have a conversation being, you know, he's in the he's in the December of his years. So and I'm very young and we can have those conversations because it doesn't matter because we had a problem with alcohol. That's enough. What you're doing with these trips, which is fantastic, is just showing people that they still can have fun. In my I have

more fun. I have more. You know, the only way I can have fun is I had to get over my fear, my anxiety, my shyness, my introversion by drinking. So I felt, well, I don't have that tool. No, I replaced the tool other things so I can now feel more comfortable going and doing stuff. So this is a really great thing, doing like a sober trip with people saying, I can learn with other people who can hold my hand and how to have a fun and fulfilling life without

alcohol. And if you're identifying with this, I'm going to skip to the end. It ends up being more fun than when you were drinking. You'll realize that after the possibilities, New York is mind blowing and going sober and having that open mindedness. If you're not used to big city, I don't care. You could be in Toronto. New York City is Toronto is not New York City. New York City is something special and it can be overwhelming. I am not knocking Toronto. Toronto's a place I

would love to go. I'm just saying there is nothing like New York City. Madeleine, how can we find you? Where are all your contacts if you're a 50 year old guy and you may think, Well, Madeline is really young and she's female and I'm not going to relate. She had an episode where she talked about relapse and it was about another girl. But I could identify you're going to be able to identify no matter who you

are. And she's what I love about you, Madeline, is you're so positive, you're so upbeat, and there's no woe is me. It just there's just a vibe of welcoming in, like, happiness that you could have this too. So I highly encourage people to go listen to you. Yeah, So I'm going to. I'm going to put everything in the notes if you didn't write this down. So everything will be there. Madeline, thank you so much for coming on with us. We'll see everybody next week, Everybody. There. Right. You know.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. You know it's interesting I it's one of the things, one of the regrets I have is I never talk to my mother about her getting sober and I'm not sure why. Right. And I'm not sure why I didn't do that. And it's one of the regrets I have. Like I've never said, cause like I said, far as I know, my mom didn't do anything. And I'm sure she and that's I mean, I'm sure she did

something right. Whether even if it was she was very you know, she was very religious and faithful to a religion, even if it was just that. But I never talked to her about that. And I think early on that, again, that's a little bit my story where when I first came into a I didn't stay around for that long, um, even though I didn't drink for a long time, I didn't stay in the program for a long time.

And, and I don't know if there was shame involved with that or what, but I'm really happy that you had that time with your mom is to share that right? To share that. And like you said, because we talk about it all the time. Rig. Non alcoholics cannot understand and how we you know, how we think and what we're going through. Right. My wife is my wife can have a couple of glasses of wine. She's not an alcoholic. Right. She can have she can buy a bottle of wine. It could sit in the fridge for four

days. It wouldn't sit in the fridge for 40 minutes for me. And and I'm not even kidding. Like, it wouldn't make 40 minutes. Never mind four days. So she can understand that. She doesn't understand how that works. But if I talk to Matt or somebody else or yourself, you guys understand how we feel, right? And that's what it's about. The feelings, right? That's what a lot of us drink because we drink over our feelings. So it's really special, really good stuff. Right. Yeah, right, right.

And I agree. ID like you get to share something. Not that I'm wishing that your kids become alcoholics, Matt, because I'm there cause I got a couple kids of my own, and it's the same thing. It's one of the things I worried about. I don't think I have that anxiety over because I have no choice what genes get passed on to my kids. I mean, they are I only have the genes I have. And if and if there is a gene effect, if there is some type of, then there's nothing I can do about it. But neither of

my kids drink to excess. They both drink some. Um, and again, they've known me, they know my struggles and they know this podcast. And I told both of my kids, I'm like, Hey, I'm doing this podcast. Listen, if you want, because they'd never heard the stories. I never I've never told my kids like the horror stories. And I'm like, Listen at

your own peril, right? Like, you're going to hear stuff that really you going to hear stuff that you didn't know and and maybe aren't so pleasant about your dad and my mom and my daughter saying, i it okay if I listen? I'm like, absolutely. Go ahead. Listen right away, cause I'm very open on this. And they talk about whatever whatever it is. So, um. Right. And, you know. Yeah. So, and absolutely and I to hope that my kids never struggle with

it. And if they do, th know, you know, they they know where they can go for help. They know they're the. Right, right. They, they do so. Yeah, absolutely. So good for him right? Yeah. Hey Yeah. All right. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know, What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we

start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode.

And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again. So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. right, right. And I agree. ID like you get to

share something. Not that I'm wishing that your kids become alcoholics, Matt, because I'm there cause I got a couple kids of my own, and it's the same thing. It's one of the things I worried about. I don't think I have that anxiety over because I have no choice what genes get passed on to my kids. I mean, they are I only have the genes I have. And if and if there is a gene effect, if there is some type of, then there's nothing I can do about it. But neither of my kids drink to excess. They

both drink some. Um, and again, they've known me, they know my struggles and they know this podcast. And I told both of my kids, I'm like, Hey, I'm doing this podcast. Listen, if you want, because they'd never heard the stories. I never I've never told my kids like the horror stories. And I'm like, Listen at

your own peril, right? Like, you're going to hear stuff that really you going to hear stuff that you didn't know and and maybe aren't so pleasant about your dad and my mom and my daughter saying, i it okay if I listen? I'm like, absolutely. Go ahead. Listen right away, cause I'm very open on this. And they talk about whatever whatever it is. So, um. Right. And, you know. Yeah. So, and absolutely and I to hope that my kids never struggle with

it. And if they do, th know, you know, they they know where they can go for help. They know they're the. Right, right. They, they do so. Yeah, absolutely. So good for him right? Yeah. Hey Yeah. All right. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know, What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we

start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode.

And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again. So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. right. And I agree. ID like you get to

share something. Not that I'm wishing that your kids become alcoholics, Matt, because I'm there cause I got a couple kids of my own, and it's the same thing. It's one of the things I worried about. I don't think I have that anxiety over because I have no choice what genes get passed on to my kids. I mean, they are I only have the genes I have. And if and if there is a gene effect, if there is some type of, then there's nothing I can do about it. But neither of my kids drink to excess. They

both drink some. Um, and again, they've known me, they know my struggles and they know this podcast. And I told both of my kids, I'm like, Hey, I'm doing this podcast. Listen, if you want, because they'd never heard the stories. I never I've never told my kids like the horror stories. And I'm like, Listen at

your own peril, right? Like, you're going to hear stuff that really you going to hear stuff that you didn't know and and maybe aren't so pleasant about your dad and my mom and my daughter saying, i it okay if I listen? I'm like, absolutely. Go ahead. Listen right away, cause I'm very open on this. And they talk about whatever whatever it is. So, um. Right. And, you know. Yeah. So, and absolutely and I to hope that my kids never struggle with

it. And if they do, th know, you know, they they know where they can go for help. They know they're the. Right, right. They, they do so. Yeah, absolutely. So good for him right? Yeah. Hey Yeah. All right. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know, What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we

start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode.

And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again. So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. All right. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight?

Literally, Like, what? You know, What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matt and I do. Yeah. Matt and I do that a lot. We just show up like, Hey, what are we going to talk about tonight? Literally, Like, what? You know,

What do you think? We'll text each other. Hey, what do you think? And then we'll kick around some ideas, and then we start talking about it. And, you know, most of the time we get done with that and we think, oh, that was pretty good. All right. And, and and we don't know. Like I always say, I put it out to the universe and let them decide what's good and what's not good. Um, I don't you know, I can't

decide that. So, you know, so hopefully we always say hopefully somebody can listen and get something out of it. That's what we do it for, right? Somebody can listen and get help for that day, for that episode. And if somebody does that, I'm satisfied with it. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah. That's it. I we say that all the time when we get a message or an email from somebody, it's like, All right, well, I guess it's worth I'll show up next week, I' show up next week and we'll do it again.

So yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. yeah. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. See those two things that Matt and I are so intrigued by, right? Because, you know, we went down to the church basement and we got sober with, with in that

manner. And because these things weren't available, they were certainly weren't available when I got sober, especially the first time in the nineties and, and and they weren't really available much when even when Matt got sober a little bit but not like not the communities that are out there And now we have this whole another community like you said that you you you can meet and then you can find this you can find this group of people that you never physically, for many of them

probably met. Yet you can help each other get in states now, only get and stay sober, but have a happy life about it. Right. Which is what we always talk about in AA. It's like, you know, I don't go to AA so much not to drink, although I always have to be aware of that. I go to AA so that I can make sure that my life, I could live the best life I can I possible, right? That's what I go for. And and we hear these stories. I'm not part of that community. I

don't do that. And I'm not interested in doing that at this point in my life. But I love that that community is out there. I love that you one person can start that and all and draw in all these other people. And then those other people in their own way can go out and help other people, which is sort of a little bit like the AA, you know, grow it up and you pass it on type of deal in a different manner. And I love it personally. I know a lot of old timers don't love it. I think AA is the only

way, and that's fine. I get that. But when I hear. Yeah, right, right. Right. Right. That's what they say. But it's really it's fascinating to me. So congratulations to you for doing that. But yeah, no right. Me, me too. Me too. Right, Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is. There. Yeah. Yeah. It it really is true. I mean, it's how we identify. It's how we identify with that problem in

our lives, right? It's not the only way we identify, obviously, but it's how we identify with that problem in once you can put aside some of the other things, the differences of people, and you can focus on that, like that's what we have in common. That's what we're doing here. I get you know, I'm sure you have it, too. I've gotten help from so many strange places, right? People much younger than me. People are people with much less

years of sobriety than me. Like, just there's so much help out there if you allow yourself to be helped and and that's qualify people just because of either how old they are or how long they've been sober or whatever. Like if you don't qualify, those people, then you have an opportunity to learn something all the time. No. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I agree.

Yeah, right. Well, well, Madeline, I was listening to one of your, one of your episodes, and you talked about something that I think we all have the same thing for those of us who struggle with alcohol. Okay? Is that you were never present in places, right? So because either you were drinking and probably drinking too much. Right? And there was, you know, anxiety and stuff over that or you just couldn't wait for the drinking to start. So you were just you were just

never present. So when you would do that trip to Costa Rica or something like that, like you would always be thinking, Oh, we're out in this beautiful land and wonder when I'm going to get back to the hotel and I could start drinking, right? And then once you get rid of that, you know, like you can go there and just enjoy the trip and the people so much more. I know.

Yeah, I know. Than than I ever could before I mean, I just spent my whole time just trying to make, you know, make sure I had liquor available to me, make sure I had alcohol, make sure I had enough of it, make sure I had when am I going to be able to start? When you know, all those type of things. It was tough to manage that stuff, especially away from home,

especially away from home. So it's those really are cool trips and it's a nice way to do it and let everybody know that, you know, we can help not only a lot of fun, but probably a lot more fun than if alcohol was involved. Yeah. Mm hmm. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No. No. Yeah, it is. It is.