All right, Steve, I'd say. I don't know. I don't know the percentage of of our audience that is in a 12 step group, but I would say it's probably pretty large. And I know on the online and podcast community, there is a growing number of people who are doing sobriety in other ways. So I thought of a topic tonight around what are the pros and what are the cons of Alcoholics Anonymous? I'm not really saying AA is bad. I'm also not saying AA is the only way to go, and
there's no other way. I think it's worth breaking down some of this stuff and maybe dispelling some myths that other people have. What are your thoughts tonight?
Hey, Matt. Great to be on with you. Yeah. When you brought this up, I think it's a great topic. I think we both we both understand that there's lots of different opportunities out there today that they weren't out there ten years ago. They
Nope.
weren't out there. Right. I mean, it's
Not
not
there.
like.
Three years ago.
Right. Right. Three years ago. Five years ago, for sure. Nothing out there. and with the onset of the pandemic and social media and all these other things, it's become this whole new opportunity for people to get sober. I follow a lot of people online and social media who do some type of program that may include a little bit of AA, but really don't follow the whole program. they seem to be doing really well.
Yeah,
And we also know that there's a bunch of people in our circle, right, who do believe that it's the only way. Right. They're like,
absolutely.
they will say, nope, this is the only way you got to do it. This is it. So there are little you know, there is a bunch of stuff out there. And like you said in the beginning, I think we'll we'll talk about it and then we'll let the listener decide what they think about it. But yeah, I think it's a great topic. I think there's a lot of stuff to kick around and try to figure out.
This is one that I want you to join in the conversation. Instagram at Sober Friends. Pod Email. Matt at Sober Friends Pod The website Sober Friends Podcast. Because we're always looking for your ideas. Here's one pro of AA. It's the default setting for recovery.
it absolutely is. Right. I mean, if you go to therapies, you go to outpatient stuff most of the time. Most of the time, again, not probably completely. And most of the time they're going to suggest that you go to an AA meeting and a big part of that. Right. One of the other pros to AA is it's it's free,
Yes,
right? It's free. You mean you don't need to pay anything? If you have an extra dollar, you throw it in a basket when they pass around. If not, it's not a problem. So it's a free app. And I've heard it described as this, and I think it probably fits in some places. It's like a free group therapy. Right. I mean, you go there, you talk about what your struggles are and why these struggles may lead you to drink and you get some help from that from the group.
it's a very low cost option. So when we say it free, yeah. it's a free will. Offering. Right, If you have means, it would be encourage, throw a little bit more in there Right. in the idea is maybe I can throw an extra dollar in there for the guy who's really suffering financially because there is rent. Although for the most part rent for an AA meeting is pretty cheap, It is. like 50 to $100 a month for, you know, 4 hours a month, Yeah.
whic in the grand scheme of things, that's why it's in churches, because they're giving us a charity discount for the most part. Right. So that I mean, you could probably get the rent easily one or two meetings, you're good. And then everything above that is is gravy that you can then get for supplies, for books or whatever you want to do. But it is what you can give. And there are some meetings that barely scrape by Mm hmm. and that's okay. I would say this is another pro. It's
not there to make money. It's Yeah. not a profit making organization. I know I'll use, for instance, Recovery Elevator has something called Cafe RV. It's $24 a month. It's $48. You're basically putting a deposit down for the first time. And it's an AA like program and that's online. But the guy is still making a profit and understandable. He's running a website and he has people who are working for him. That's not the way it works in AA. The profit motive isn't there
not at all. 100%. I mean, it is against. And again, if you've listened to this podcast or if you want to know some of the things you can go back and listen to, we went through the 12 steps and 12 traditions that will give you a better understanding, especially the 12 traditions of a how to organize and some of the do's and don'ts. But you're absolutely right. It's, you know, the the the primary purpose of AA is to bring the message of sobriety to the still suffering alcoholic.
That is, they're like that's the that's the message.
and
Right. That's that's the mission statement, if you will, of the program. So that is you know, that is another pro. And listen, let's be clear here, okay. For you is the way you found sobriety. And for me, it was the way I found sobriety. And I certainly don't I certainly can't see that anything else would have worked for me at the time that I came in. All right. That's that's where I come from. So there's a lot to it. The other pro another pro is the fact that typically you meet people in your
community. Right.
yes,
So you end up with with a community of people within AA. But there are also within the community where you live typically. So you
they're
have
your neighbors.
this right there. Your neighbors are your workers. They work here. You know, perfect example is I was on Father's Day. My daughter came over and we were hiking a local mountain case mountain here. And it's not a big but we I like to go hiking and my daughter knows that. So she always says, Hey, you want to go for a hike? We go up there and as we're heading up the mountain, it's not even a big one. Nothing short of a mountain,
but it's called KS Mountain. But coming down is this guy I know through the program and I haven't seen him since before the pandemic. He's on Facebook and I know him once in a while. We'll chat a little bit. And it was like, you know, we so we get talking right in the middle of the woods, you know, And so you have this community. to me, that's a huge part. To me, that's a huge part is that I
have this group of people. For me, it's men mostly there are some women and that I'm very close to in the program, but mostly men. And And those are the people that I rely on when I start to struggle. Right? And those are the people that I call. And that's the whole point, right? These people that you could pick up, that you can call, there's a whole group of them. It's it's not a single number. It's not, you know, a single therapist who
may call you back. It's a group of people that, you know, yep. on a personal basis, you call them, you will get a phone call back or your son will pick up and you have an instant ability to talk to somebody.
This is worth expanding upon from the fellowship aspect Mm because it's not just the fellowship you could get a fellowship on something like a cafe RV hmm.
or somebody's Patreon group or however you get together online if you're going to in-person meetings, especially in places like where we live, around the Hartford area of Connecticut, there are just so many meetings that you really have to make an excuse not to go to one so that you can connect with a fellowship who is local, who Right, lives in your town, and if they don't live in your town, I mean, Steve, you don't live in my town. You live the next town over.
Right, Like, my favorite pizza place is a walk basically from where you live. right, So we're in a place where not only do you meet people who can support you, you meet these people in person, their local telephone dial exchange. You can go over to their house like right. we do with John, with a Joe and Charlie stuff. You Yeah, have people that you have physical contact with. I'll give you our first con, this guy. There are some right.
people Yeah. in the program who may have less than desirable sobriety or may have a belief structure that runs afoul of yours. And when people complain about AA, the number one thing, I think people are really complaining about is not the program. It's some of the personalities.
Yeah. It can be difficult, right? There are some people who are still around, and it's changed a lot, but they're still around where they are. That cranky old, that cranky old person and old people who think that, you know, when you're new, you should just sit down and shut up and listen and and some of that and some of that is really good advice, don't get me wrong. But if you're new and you come in here to this program and that's your introduction, that's sort of the face you see when you walk
Yeah.
in, it could be very easily to go to say, No, that's not for me. And and that is one of the cons, right? One of the cons is that you you meet some people who are really diehard big book thumpers and you know, again, and this happens typically this happens before you get to know them, right? Because even those people who do that, once you get to know them, most of them are okay. You know, most of them have a lot more tolerance than they may appear
to have on the surface. But that is a con, another con, I really think, is what some people call the the God aspect of it, right. I mean, obviously
Oh yeah.
that is a huge one, is that people feel like it's somewhat of a cultish thing. And the truth is it is somewhat of a cult, this thing And let's face it, it was you know, this book was written by mostly white Christian men, you know, a couple of guys who weren't there when in the beginning. But for the most part, it was and it was put together by a group of guys who were in that demographic. So at the time and when you read through this book, it the material, it very much speaks to
that, right? It very much speaks to that. And again, you can get caught up in that and look at that and go, nope, I'm not doing that because of that. Right. Like, that's not where I'm at. I don't believe that. So I'm not doing the program.
I'm going back for a second to big, big book Thumper Yeah. because I consider myself a big book thumper Mm hmm. in the sense that the program is in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. Not because I'm rigid, which is another one of these cons I look hmm. at the book is that's the program. And if you start hearing things that are outside of what the book tells you, that's where I start having an issue. Yeah. Not because I'm inflexible. I'm a believer that there are things that need to be updated
in the book. Not like, okay, we're going to remove steps, but more of some of the language in there. But I am a big believer of stick close to that book and you're probably going to be better off. We owe a lot of benefit to Hank Parkhurst. We've talked about Mm. Hank on previous episodes. Hank was kind of a God skeptic, and without Hank pushing Bill, it probably would be a righteous salt of the Earth Christian program that also held the alcoholics, Right. because Mm hmm.
that was the Akron program. The Akron program, they still thought of themselves as Oxford groupers of first Yeah. century Christianity, and they were doing it differently in New York. And a lot of that was Hank's push. So if you're one of these people who has a more liberal concept of what that higher power looks like, Hank Parkhurst, who nobody ever talks about, is the guy that you should thank. I think that is a
big thing. I have a friend who doesn't go because she one of the many reasons is the God thing. Mm hmm. And I have my own struggle with God. It is okay to go in and have a different conception or no conception at all. Absolutely. And if somebody gives you a hard time, you nod your head, take what you like and leave the rest. That's okay. It's a spiritual journey and it's it's something that's totally okay. But yeah, it's it's a legitimate hang up.
it it can be difficult. And again, we've talked about it for before, and you will go to and again, this is where if you go in to the program, it's easy to walk in there and not be involved with that and immediately say, that's not for me. This is where I would encourage anybody to if you if you really if you're really struggling with sobriety, if you really are and you've tried other things and it's not working for you, it's worth to
give a try. And by giving it a try, I mean going to meetings and and in doing some of the work. Okay, which for most of us mean getting a sponsor. Okay. Mm hmm. And that's part of the program. And that's another that could be another con for some people. Right. They feel like they need to have somebody tell them how to do this. But I think when you get somebody who's a good sponsor, they can help you through some of that God stuff.
Okay. I just know that if somebody came to me and said, listen, I don't I want to get sober, but I don't believe in this God stuff, I would absolutely tell them that is not a problem. And if you come and let me work with you, I will show you how to do this program without ever believing in God. Okay. There other ways to do it. And in the talk about that is a higher power, right? All you have to believe is that you're not God, right? A Mm hmm.
if you are and if you believe that you're not God, then you can do this program. And I mean, honestly, because there's so many ways around that. So but it is it's a sticking point. And it's a point that, you know, I've heard about on here that, you know, it's it's something that I struggle with right now is the whole concept of God. I don't feel like it
threatens my program at all. I mean, that I don't feel like it does because I know that this the group of men I hang around with are stronger than I am alone. You know, I am with them stronger than I would be alone. And that's good enough for me. That's my higher power right there. So that works for me.
There is such a spectrum of view on God from the people I'm close to. We think of a guy like Mikey, Mikey loves to go
Mm.
to Catholic Mass and tells me he prays Mm for me. hmm. It is very clear that he has a personal relationship with the Catholic Jesus Christ. In his heart, He knows that that Jesus of the Catholic Church is real and is present in his life, and Yeah. it makes a real difference for him. In meeting Mikey, you see it. You Yeah, see that it's real and it really helps. And then I know other people who are hardcore atheist to the point that they don't realize atheism is their religion. right
And that's okay. I have heard somebody mention and I think by the very nature, I don't think this program would work if, if we had that hardcore Oxford group view because now. it would then be a religious group. Right? Here's the issue is because we all have different perspectives and different personalities. I've heard it said this way. It's like everybody standing in different
points around a mountain. And if you do that, you could be describing something totally different than the next guy, because your perspective of where you're standing is different. You could be on one side of a plateau where you're high up with a mountain doesn't look too high because you're already high up. Not big of a mountain, or you could be back in the plains looking up. And it's this incredible thing that
touches the sky. And if you hear these two stories, you wouldn't believe they're looking at the same thing. But they are because the perspective is different. This is the same thing. Whatever created the universe, depending on how you see things, you could be describing the same thing as somebody else. But it's sounding different because of how you are metabolizing it. And I think that's a belief of why we have Mormonism and Roman Catholics and Lutherans that, well, my my
God is is the right God. And you see it from a different perspective and you connect in a different way. And my view is it's all right. It's just we're probably seeing the same thing. We just perceive it in a different way. You mentioned it mentioned sponsor as a con. I think sponsor is a pro and a con, Yeah, I think it is. Yeah, depending if you've got the right sponsor that you connect with, you don't get
anything like that outside. You might spend $100 an hour to get the benefit that a sponsor gives you for free. That can be life saving of this could make or break whether you continue going to meetings and continue recovery because, you know you have that one person dedicated to you. It's not somebody who is going to sign off on your bullshit, but it's somebody
who's going to support you. And it could be as little as I'm going to take you to a meeting and I'm going to introduce you to some people so that at least when you go to this meeting him down knows some people, because I've introduced you that you sort of have a tour guide to a 12 step program at the very minimum with a sponsor, you also have somebody knowledgeable enough to walk you through the book. So you understand that that 1938 rating your reading can be translated into modern
day English. Or you could have a story that I heard a few weeks ago that made me cringe, and I hear this too freaking often of somebody calling his sponsor a number of times saying, I think I'm writing my fourth step wrong and the sponsor hanging up on him and calling back and said, I think we got disconnected. No, I hung up on you. And I hear this type of story too much. Almost like the sponsor did the right thing. I think that's the wrong thing to do. That's the old school of management.
I agree. Um, but different. Different strokes for different folks, right? I mean, some
Yeah,
people might respond to that. I wouldn't respond to that. Well, and, and I agree
I
that
think that.
most most people aren't going to do that to this day and age. You know the the, the beautiful thing in the pro of AA is the fact that when you sit in a room, especially a large room. Right. If you sit in a large room with 40, 50 people in AA meeting, plenty of those type of meetings around here. there will be almost as many concepts of God as there are people in that room, Right. Everybody will have, even even if they identify as a Christian, they're going to have
a different take on it. And then Mikey, the Catholic, right then really
Yeah,
they're going to have a different take on it. So and there will be everything in there from agnostics to atheists to to Jewish to, you know, and again, Jewish non, you know, non-conforming,you know, all this type of stuff in there. They're all in there. And the beauty about it for most meetings, again for most meetings, is that you're never going to hear any talk of religion. You might hear somebody share, you might hear somebody share like, hey, you know, my God, i the guy, the God
of the Bible. You might hear that on occasion, but it's not. A preaching is sort of just an acknowledgement of where they are. all of these people can coexist in one room and find recovery. You know, it's such a huge pro. I will tell you, this is the I have a friend who has struggled with this program and been in and out, in and out and was talking to him recently and he was catching me up. I hadn't talked to him in a while. He was catching up on some of the stuff
he was doing. And he is he he's always wanted to go back to studying the Bible. And it's one of the things I talked to him and he should try to find that, you know, he grew up Catholic and all this kind of stuff. And he told me that he he ran into this guy who he liked and they were doing some Bible work. And he asked us this guy would sponsor him. And the guy said yes. And he started going to the church that this this man went to and he started being uncomfortable for whatever
reason in that church. And he decided that that was not going to work for him. And this person told him. Right. And again, this is works for this person that I can sponsor you only if you go to the same church as me, which I found to be very strange. But and this, you know, gentleman said, Well, thanks, but no thanks, that's not working for me. So you will find those type of people and that's where the pros
that.
and the cons come, right? I mean, like I said, there are lots of pros I know I could not have gone through this program without a sponsor, as I'm sure you and most of the people we know, we could not have done this.
Yeah,
You know, there was no way to do it. This is not a program you can do on your own. It really isn't. and maybe that, you know, and think another con might be Matt is that and I think this is you still hear about it today is that you got to go out in public to go to a meeting right. And if you're just coming
right.
in and if you're embarrassed about your drinking and you're like, oh, I got to go out in public, what if somebody sees me? You know? So that's one of those fears that those early on is a problem in a lot. A lot of people avoid going to meetings in their town, in their hometown or close to home because of that. Again, I think once you're in the program for a while, it doesn't become as big
of a deal. But I do think early on it's a fearful thing, especially when there's options now where you can do it online and,
Yes,
you know, you can be a lot. You never have to leave your house. You know.
I think that's also a positive, the way the pandemic came. I mean, our Monday night meeting used to be hybrid. We've gotten rid of the, the web version and it's only in-house. There are lots of now AA meetings that are Zoom, only that they're virtual only this is a positive. You now have the option of going to meetings that could be in your local area, could be in California. Like we go back to Mike has sponsors in
Cincinnati. That's how he found a sponsor and that connects or London or Ireland that the only barrier to finding something is you. It's if you're not open enough to say, okay, I can only go to a Zoom meeting. There are around all the time. It's very easy to go on Google and find a Zoom meeting that's going to meet your needs. And I have been to Zoom meetings that have been amazing, Yeah, well-run, absolutely. and that is there are people who want them to go away. I am not
Oh,
one
no.
of them.
Oh, me neither. You know, one of the amazing things that have happened with the AA program and Zoom meetings is that it became so advantageous to some people of like there are now now there are meetings that used to be that were in-person
08 a.m. Pathfinders is one of the places right 7 a.m. every day of the week there was a meeting at this place of recovery club and it was in person and then it went to Zoom and then it went hybrid. And then what happened was they actually split that meeting. So now there's a Zoom 7 a.m. meeting in in person. So they're meeting sort of the same meeting, but two different options. So you can go to either one. that's how popular it was, right, for certain people.
Yeah,
So that really is a you know, it, it's a, it's an advent, it's an advantage to that for certain people. But again, I'm a person I like in-person. Since I started going back in person, I do very little zoom. I just who I am, right?
I get fidgety.
Yeah. And I just I just have and there's some good in like you said, there are some really, really good zoom meetings and I know some guys who do good Zoom meetings and they do them every week. but for me, I like the in-person stuff,
This is the extrovert versus introvert thing. Depending on your personality preference, you may get a lot out of being in a virtual meeting or your personality preference may allow your mind to wander like mine does, because I think I have undiagnosed ADHD and so I struggle with just sitting still and I start phasing out seeing all those people. Depending on your personality, it could be that life saver. Maybe you don't have a car and for other people
right?
they're extroverted and they need to be in person with people. Yeah. This is this is a beautiful thing. On the meeting end the con your meeting is only as good as the people in there. It's not like McDonald's that you walk into McDonald's and they're going to make a quarter pounder for you the same way every single place you go. There's consistency. There is no hierarchy in AA. So therefore the flavor of meaning that you go to is going to be dominated
by the people in it. And if you have rotten sobriety in there and grumpy old men or people not taking it seriously, you might have a bad experience at a meeting.
Yeah. And I, I'm sure that could happen in places like you said, we're blessed if you, if you will, being that we're in recovery and we live where we live because of the meeting options that we have and we're 12 step people. So we have lots of options. but if you're in a more rural area where maybe you don't have that many options, it could be tough. It could be tough. Like if you have to drive 40 minutes to a meeting and that's the only meeting and it's
only twice a week. you know, that could be a problem When when John and I went up to Maine last year to hike Katahdin, one of the things we'd like to do, if we can, if we like to find a local meeting, you know, so we were up there for four days or five days. so we found this meeting and it was one of those things where it was all, you know, gotten sort of out in the boonies, you know, And they had this meeting. It was this one meeting was twice a week at this church. You know, and they had a
noon meeting. But nope, nobody went to that meeting that many people. So it was like a Tuesday or Wednesday and Sunday. So that was the meeting and sort of everybody in town who was in the program went to that meeting and it was, you know, about 40 people, maybe a little bit more. But you could tell and there were some really tough personality conflicts. There was a guy who shared that day, oh, I stopped coming to this meeting.
Bu but, you know, talking about the personality conflicts and that's difficult when you're out there in the boonies and that might be the only meeting you go to. B then again, there you go. That's where Zoom comes in. All right? Cause as long as you have an Internet connection, you can go to a meeting anywhere you want. And and if you really want recovery, then you'll find it. All right? And Mm that's hmm. that's the that's the
thing that I believe. And that's why I think there's other options today, is because I really, truly and again, I, I you see it, too. You see it more than I do because you're more online and in that community, that line than I do there are so many people that are getting sober through online communities, whether it's Instagram or like you said, you know, all those other ways that they do it. But there are so many people who aren't using the 12 step program.
So I'm all for, you know, whatever, whatever the way you can get sober, that you can get sobriety in your life, I think you should do
And
it.
it could be a combination.
It could
I
be.
know some people who have these podcast patron groups where they have meetings and meetups and stuff, and some of those people pay for that service and they go to these online meetings with their favorite podcaster and a lot of those people, that's their that's their only meeting they go to. And some of those are they're AA people and they do this in addition and I look at that say Bravo, if you're going to do extra credit and try a bunch of different things
together, good for you. If that's going to improve your sobriety, that's a really great thing. Here's another con. There's already a tried and true path for recovery. Ther a cookbook that I can give you that's been tried and repeated, which is why psychiatrists and psychologists and doctors and treatment centers will point you in the direction of AA that the
material is already written. In a matter of fact, Right, a lot of these other groups, they're borrowing, they're borrowing from it, which Right? is okay. But that's one of the positives. And not only that, there are traditions around how to behave to protect the people in hmm. enough to reinvent the wheel. There
Yeah. And I think you're exactly right. They are born into taking what they want and they're not leaving. But put what they don't want, which is sometimes what you hear at a meeting. Take what you need. Leave the rest. Right. Which is that thing, you know, Don't worry about the bullshit that's going on. Take what you need to help keep you sober. Listen, th are some great people out there. There's a I do a follow on Tik Tok of a woman who she has a podcast with another guy who's
also on there. And and she talks about how she she found sobriety through to 12 through AA. But she does work the program she's talked about. I don't work the program. I don't have a sponsor. I'm not doing the stuff. But she's really fond of the meetings and the fellowship and all that kind of stuff. And again, it's one of these things that it seems like it's working for her, right? I mean, she seems like she's has and I don't know this person. but I also have listen, I have spotty, all
right? I have banshees who I took to the steps. They went to meetings with me. They did Joe and Charlie with me. And they're still sober today and they don't go in there. Just don't do the program look the way I do the program. All right? They'll show up at meetings once in a while. I'll talk to them once a while. And I'm an I mean, I know these guys and they have pretty good lives, right? So who am I to say, like, oh, no, you need to do three meetings a week or your
life is going to be shit. Well, they're like, seems to be pretty good without doing three meetings a week. My life, I think if I don't do three meetings a week could turn into shit. But that's me, right? That's the nice thing about a probably is is another pro is you can tailor it to what works for you right If what works for you is a couple of meetings a week, then that works for you. If it means that you need to go to especially early on, the
beauty about it. If you need to go to meetings every single night, it's available and you do that, you know, And again, that goes comes back to one of the pros. You can do that because there's very little cost associated with it.
in the membership is clearly defined in a way that some other things are not your membership type is a state of mind. One of my meetings that I went to very regularly had a big fight about a vote and trying to figure out who would be eligible to vote
hmm.
because they had to have their name in the book. And we went on and on and on and on and on. And one of the old timers raised his hand and he said, It's nice to have the names in the book, but your determination on whether you're a member of the group is determined on. Do you believe you are a There's two things. You are a member, one of Alcoholics Anonymous, if you have a desire to stop drinking. So I think back to we had Gene McCarthy from the bubble hour on the show and Jean
never really worked. AA She went for fellowship because she wanted to meet other women in recovery, and it was sort of like she's on the fringes, but they work for her. Sh a member of AA because she has a desire to stop drinking and you Right. can be a member of AA just going in to want fellowship. That' the only thing that's ever defined there. And the same thing with being part of a group. And this guy was absolutely
right. If you're brand new in this meeting and you've you're you're sober 2 hours, if you believe you're a member of that group, regardless of whether you have a name in a book or not, you're a member of that group. If you go to that group for the last and I know somebody who believes this, who goes to this meeting for 30 years religiously Yeah, right, and right, doesn't believe he's a member of that group, he's not a member of the group name in the book right. or not going every single
week for 29, 30 years or not. He leaves at the business meeting. He has a resentment towards the meeting. He's not a member of the group and both are okay. It's like, you know, it's Yeah, like I up for my job. I believe I have a job. yeah, Then I'm right. employed at that place. Yeah. I don't believe I work for that company, but I've Huh? done 29 years of work for
them and take a paycheck. I don't work for the company no where else but AA or a 12 step group is that thought process makes sense now where if I want to go to Yeah. like Recovery Ari or Ari Cafe, I'm not a member until I give them $24. Right. If I believe in AA, if I even if I haven't gone in four weeks, if I still believe I'm a member of the Monday night group, I'm a member of the Monday night group. Yeah, That's just the yeah. way it is.
It's
And
just
I look
the way
at that
it is.
as a positive
And that is a positive, right? Is that you? Is As soon as you say you belong, you belong.
right.
Right. And and and nobody can take that away from you. And that's one of the beauties of it. I mean, like I said, if you, you know, if you have, if you're wondering what we're talking about, go back. Look, you know, think about the listen to the episodes under traditions and it'll give you some of the ideas or look up the traditions of AA and it'll tell you how it's structured and how you know, how how you can find out if you're a member or not a member. And in in, you know, the do's and
don'ts of it. It was pretty really was pretty ingenious how it was put together, because it's it's something that's lasted, you know, 75 years and, 78 years now, I guess. it and it's still going, still going today and, and still helping people get sober each and every day.
And it really feels as though it was the first thing of the history of humanity with alcoholism. Doctors had no idea what to do with these people. They could treat Mm them. Maybe they'd have some type of spiritual experience. We had the Washingtonians around the Civil War, but they petered out because they didn't have a singleness appropriate purpose. But Right. we had like recovery
centers. They were drunk tanks, but the doctors would treat them, send them out and believe maybe I'm not going to get the bill paid. They're probably going to go out and drink Yeah. until this there was nothing. So this is the first open door of, wow. There's actually something that works.
And the idea that these people put it down on paper and the bad ideas got pushed to the side where you have a pretty fully thought out program that's repeatable, that has worked and expanded is an amazing thing. And it's one of those things that when I'm struggling with a higher power, I think about how the 12 step program came together and then was replicated with Narcotics Anonymous and Cocaine Anonymous and Overeaters Anonymous. That seems like a
miraculous thing. There has to be some type of divine power in play to help you, because that's that's a lot coming together to work for this long. Mm.
Has worked for a long time.
I hope this has helped you. If you don't know AA or you're AA curious or you don't like AA or you're like me, I was looking for a podcast like this when I first came in because I was a nerd and I just wanted to learn
it. And the closest I found was Mark's Recovered podcast just because it talked about topics like this of what is it so that you can go in and you get an idea of what you might go into your first meeting and what you might expect and because this can be a topic that causes people emotions, let us know what you think about this topic. Matt. Matt recovered. It's not my email. Matt at Sober Friends Podcast. The Sober Friends Podcast Instagram at Sober Friends Pod. Steve another great
podcast. Thank you for your part. Hey.
Hey, Matt. Always glad to do this. And I'm really looking forward to see if we get some good feedback on here. Really
Mm
I really hope you will. If you're listening to this, reach
hmm.
out and let us know what you think.
You can blast this too, if there's something you don't agree
Yeah,
with. We're
absolutely.
not wilting flowers.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, sometimes you've got to push and pull on an eye as long as you're not, you know, F-bomb ing us respectfully, All right. if there's something you don't agree with, call us out. Maybe
Yeah,
you
Let
can
us
help
know.
us out.
All right, Matt.
All right,
Great.
Steve. Everybody will see you next time by everybody.