All right. What does everybody think of when they think of a 12 step group? They think of the God thing, a power greater than ourselves. And then they also think of one day at a time. It's got to be one of the most well-known phrases in 12 step groups. They've got to be.
Got to be, especially our 12 step group. it's, there's a lot of sayings in our group and AA, but that is probably the biggest and maybe the most significant one that not only we say, but we, we try to live by.
most I wouldn't say most of them. A lot of the phrases I could I could take it or leave it.
Right.
This is not one of them. And we had Tim Phillips on some time back and he struggled because he left after five years and he struggled a little bit with the one day at a time that I always have to be on guard every single day. And I think there is something to be said for that when you're new. But I'm not thinking of I just want to get through the day today without a drink. I think I got
that under control. I also think one day at a time means a lot more in this world, and I think that's worth us discussing today. That's going to help the next sick and suffering alcoholic. So I think we can break down first. If you're brand new, what does it mean one day at a time? How would you explain it if you're a newcomer and saying, oh my God, I have to stop drinking and I can't do this the rest of my life, what am I going to do?
What would you say to them when you're explaining one day at a time,
Well, I would tell them that, for me, you know, when I look at it is, is a couple of things. One is if I'm worried about yesterday, it's to me is wasted time. Right.
right,
I mean, I can't fix that. I can't fix yesterday. I can, I can do some work on it, I can do some other things, but I can't fix it. And the same thing about tomorrow and I talk about this for the couple of friends who who have anxiety and stuff. If I'm if I'm thinking about tomorrow, then again, it may not be wasted time because maybe I could do something about what's going to happen. But the other thing that happens is I'm not in the moment right? I'm not I'm
not there today. And I struggle with that, that it was a big, big problem for me. Like always worried about everything except for exactly what was going on. So when I think about one day at a time, it's not even that that's the way I, I talk about it today and I think about it today is being in the moment and being available. And it's one of the things that I talk about. Like you, I don't worry about. There was a time when I came in here that living one day at a time meant not drinking today.
Right.
That's all meant get through today without drinking. That newcomer, that that white knuckle that we all went through that did you know? And that's what people don't understand. When you come into recovery, like those first few days, there's very little anyone else could do for you. I mean, you do have to you can have a program, you can have a sponsor. You go to meetings, but you are for many of us, you are going to want to drink really, really bad because
Yeah.
two or three days before that you wanted to drink and you did. So you have to just white knuckle it to that unless you're in a treatment facility. Totally different story. I was never there. I can't relate to how that works. If you are, then there's a different there's a different story there. So I don't mean that anymore. I do mean
Mm
trying
hmm.
to be in the moment, trying to live for today, worried about what can I do today to make today a better day?
I think if you're many years on and you're still exposing, we'll just get through today. It's a little literal. I think you have to make small. You have to break the goal down small when you start. And
Mm hmm.
this is really the brilliance of one day at a time. And it's one of the things that really hung me up. I was a wine snob. I identified as a wine connoisseur. So the idea that I had to give up this identity as a wine drinker, there was a lot of that that prevented me from giving up alcohol because I'm giving up my identity enough. I'm thinking ahead of I'm not going to go to a marriage. I'm not going to go to a wedding ceremony without booze. I'm not going to go on vacation without
booze. I'm not going to go to the beach without booze. I'm going to get stuck in my own head if I can think through. Let's get through today. Let's just think about today. It it shortens the goal. And I was going to be a smartass when I was when you were talking about don't think about tomorrow. Oh, so I don't have to do any planning for tomorrow. No, that's still that's still one day at a time. There are times that I log on at work and spend an hour or two planning my
calendar. That's not being in the future. That's I'm setting myself up for when I have tomorrow. I can be successful without spinning my wheels. Do your planning today for this stuff later on?
Yeah. We have to plan for the future, right? I mean, we just live in a society where we have to do our planning, whether it's work, whether it's family, whether it's events. That's not what we're talking about. Right. And again, we're not talking about that. That you can't do anything and think about future things. It's about. It's really about sitting in a bad spot worrying about that, you know, worrying about what's going to happen. And, you know, we talk about our friend Mike on here a lot.
Mm hmm.
And Mike Mike has a lot of anxiety and he struggles with that. And I, I ride with Mike a lot. I give him he doesn't drive, so I give him rides to appointments and stuff. So we do a lot of talking. You know, we we talk a lot and I try to help him best I can. And and Mike is one of those people who worries always about what if right
Mm hmm.
and how. And, and I relate to that because I had it to. But one of the beauties of this program for me is we talk about the promises. And when I when I work this program properly and fully, some of those promises came true. And one of them was that I stopped worrying as much. I stopped
worrying about the path. And here's the other thing I think for me, which is really important, if I live one day at a time, if I'm living in the moment, if I'm if I'm paying attention to what's going on, I'm less likely to make bad decisions, right? I'm less likely to have bad stuff to clean up where I wake up tomorrow and go, Oh, I got regrets because I made a mess. Not that I don't. On occasion I
do. I'm not perfect. I certainly have days where I where I mess up and I have regrets and I have a means to make and all those type of things. But if I'm living a day at a time, if I'm living in the moment, then you know, I don't have to worry about doing that as often.
Paul Gorski is a gardener out in Washington State that I found many, many years ago. And he's kind of how I do my gardening. And he does back to Eden gardening. And he talks about gardening in a way that God talks to him. And one of the things that I picked up with him is I don't remember how he said it, but he said it in such a way of if you put in effort at first, it's a lot of work. If you do it well, you don't have to put that effort later on. And I look at that of the effort you need to
put in early in recovery. This might be one of those areas where people don't stay sober at first, not saying that the program doesn't work or that you're not doing it right, but you really have to commit to I have to work really hard and put a lot of effort in and that could be really, real painful. At first. It's you know, if you're going in and you're going to dig up the soil, that's going to take a lot of backbreaking
work. But if you do that one time or in my case, not not digging up the soil, but if I have to go get my woodchips and cover the ground, that's going to take a lot of work at first. And once it's done, it's done, then I just have to maintain it. So it's
Right.
one of the things I need to do upfront today that I won't have to do that work later on. So it becomes easy.
You know, just, just to stick on that gardening thing for a moment. I know you're a big gardener. You
Oh
inspired,
yeah?
you inspired me a while back to start doing some of that. I didn't take to it like you did, but I took part of my garden and I put in some blueberry plants. Now, blueberry plants take a while to mature before they really start producing fruit. And this is the third season that I've had them, and they always produce a little bit of fruit, but not a lot. And this season was the first time that they had a fair amount of fruit.
One of the other things I did is they want a very acidic soil, blueberries and I bought a tester last year and I, I tested my soil this year and it and I realized my soils are wrong. So like you said, one of the things I need to do is start working to change my soil. It's going to take work. It's
Mm
going
hmm.
to take some time to get that done. But in the future, what I'll do is it'll it'll pay dividends and my blueberry bushes will grow and produce more fruit. And this is, you know, we recording this the day after the 4th of July, the 5th of July. And, you know, I had grandkids over this week and I planted these for my grandkids. Yeah, we always come up in July and, you know, my 118, 19 month old grandson, he came up and I
have older ones, too. And we went out there and literally this kid would just pick them off the bushes and eat them. Right. Like there was no picking them and bring them in the house. Like
Right.
he was just picking them and eating and and that's what I do it for. And like I said, so when when I think back about my early sobriety, man, I had to work really, really hard. I had to work really, really hard. And I don't have that urgency today. but it doesn't mean I work any less hard. And I mean that honestly, right? I mean, I still do a lot of work. I do. I do different work now. I do different work now. I you know, my service commitments are
different. Everything's just a little bit bit different, but I still do it. and I don't worry about it, you know, because it really is, you know, we talked a little bit about when we first started before we came on the show is I am sort of semi-retired. I work for a company out of Canada. My boss is Muslim. When I took this job, I went up to Canada and we I spent some few days up there and I told him that I was in recovery. I wanted him to know, right. I told him I was in
recovery. He told me had a problem. I don't think he I mean, I think he gets it a little bit because he's not a really strict a strict Muslim, but he still he certainly doesn't understand. AA And anyway, I had a Zoom call with him and on my when I shut off my video on my zoom, my background is a do a picture of a chip that says one day at a time. And it was interesting when you brought up this subject, you know, I said, my boss saw that before I turn on my video feed. And he goes, Oh, I like
that one day at a time. And I was able to tell him, And this just happened yesterday, I live or actually Monday, I live my life one day at a time. And so anyway, so it's a it's a really important to me to do that. It's important for me for not to get too ahead of myself. It helps me in a lot of things in an aspect of of my life
Work can get me worked up the wreckage of the future. I think the opposite of one day at a time is the wreckage of the future, as opposed to the wreckage of the past. Because
right?
I start thinking about I'm not happy where I am in my career, and I'm
Mm
blocked
hmm.
and I'm not where I want to be. And are they cutting back? Am I going to lose my job if I stay in today? I'm a lot better. And what that means to me is today, what can I control? It's not I'm not going to worry about the future. I'm not going to worry about a career thing later on. No, today, here's what I want to worry about. What are the steps I need to take today to get to my goals tomorrow?
Right,
That' what I can control.
Right,
It's not I'm going to deny the future because that's a risk and that's a risk that I've taken. I'm not going to worry about that. That's just worry. No, it's okay. Well, what do you want to accomplish? And if you're worried about accomplishing something in the future, what are those steps you need to take today?
right.
Do have to pick up the call, pick up the phone and have a conversation with and maybe develop a mentor relationship with. I can do that today. That will bear fruit tomorrow, but I'll worry about that tomorrow.
Yeah. I'm a firm believer that I did. I should do today what I can do today.
Mm hmm.
Right. And that put it off. And that was a great one for putting stuff off, especially if there's something uncomfortable for me to do.
Oh,
Something
me too.
I don't want to do. I could put it off for a forever. One of the things my wife, I was always it all. My wife. My wife was a supervisor of 11 school nurses, women and and I my wife would have to do unpleasant things as a supervisor. Right. And I was always in awe how she was just like she would never delay it. It was like, oh, I got to go and do this. You tell me what she's got to do sometimes and move, you know, just to have somebody to vent over or whatever. And she'd go in and do
it. And I always used to think like, wow, you know, I would have avoided trying to do that forever,you know? So what I believe today is I should do it if I can. You know, I want to go back and talk. But when I came back from my relapse in 2000, I came back in 2010 and in 2011, I had this weird series of doctor's appointments where they they saw speck in my eye and one thing led to another. And it was really interesting how it went. I just went for have my eyes tested. I hadn't had them tested
in a while. I'll never wear glasses to the optometrist, saw a speck in my eye. He sent me to a retina specialist. The retina specialist diagnosed it as a tumor. He sent me down to Yale. They diagnosed it as a malignant cancerous tumor. And through this whole process now, I was newly sober. But through this whole process, what I did was exactly was live a day at a time. Because my wife would say to me, as we went through all of the appointments, she'd like, Oh, you must be crazy. Like, you
must be crazy inside. And I said, No, I'm not. And I remember when I when I was told that I had a tumor by the second doctor, I and they said, Well, we're going to send you down to see an ocular oncologist. And I'm like, What? Right? And we went, had it done. And my wife said, You must be nervous. I'm like, You know something, honey? I'm going to this appointment. And I'm not going any farther in my head than this appointment. I don't know what he's going to tell me
right? And when I got there, he told me it needed some surgeries, some radiation, all that kind of stuff. And I dealt with it at that moment and I went from one appointment to the next. I went from one procedure to the next, and it was the time that I realized I never let myself get crazy over it because I just lived in the moment and like, I could have worried like, crazy, Oh, what's going to happen? What? You know, am I going to lose a sight in that eye? All this kind
of things. It would have done me no good. So I took it a dead up. A lot of those things happened, right? I lost sight that a lot
Right.
of those things happen. But I'm going to tell you something. I never spent the day worrying about them because I knew I had no control over that
This. This also comes in to what's in your circle of control.
right?
What is in your circle of influence? What do you have no control over? And I could take it to that next logical step. You could lose sight in an eye.
hmm. Hmm.
So the next step is what happens. I'll worry about that. If it comes to the point where I lose sight in one eye, what would be my next step? How would I get around that?
Right.
There would be something that you would do.
that there is. And you know what that is? Wear glasses. And
Yeah,
I mean, that is like, my my surgeon used to scream at me. I never wore glasses my whole life. So when I soon what happened was my vision was great for the first 3 to 5 years after that. And then it slowly just I won't get into it all, but it slowly I slowly started to lose it because of the radiation. And I and he used to tell me, you got to protect your good eye, not your bad. I body is going to be about it. You got a picture, your good eye. And I listened to him. Sometimes he didn't, you
know. And then I realized, Oh, yeah, I got to protect that. Good. I could. If I lose sight in that good eye, then I'm blind, you know?
right.
So there are some things I could do about it. And as time went on, I took better care of it. I didn't pay attention to it right away, but I took better care of it. And because I had to. Right. I had to. And now today, I'm very much first of all, today I need to wear my glasses because I can't see without them. But I'm faithful to them, making sure I'm always if I'm doing anything I always have eye protection on because I am in control of that. You know?
I never thought of it that way, but that's a different way to look at it. Of you do have a good I do everything you can do to protect that.
I didn't understand that when he first told me. Not like. Yeah, I'm like,
Mm
yeah, yeah, yeah.
hmm.
Especially because I could still see out of my other eye. So but yeah, it was, you know, and now, like I said, now I can and, and listen, my wife just went through some, she, she, she had a really, really bad case of migraines which I've never seen or had anything have anything like that. And they went on for a while and they were for long enough that they did some scans and stuff like that. And those are all the type of things that you worry about.
Right. And we you know, our sun was up and it's like, yeah, you got to wait. You got to you got to go. You had to go for one of those scanned brain scans to make sure there's nothing else going on except for a migraine, you know, And there's always a little bit of holding your breath during that time. I'm, you know, I listen, I'm a guy half full. I'm, you know, I'm a glass half full guy, right? I'm an optimist by nature. I figured there's always there's always a
silver lining to everything. So I don't worry about those things. But my wife's not like that. She gets nervous, she gets
Hmm.
anxious, and so it's been it's been a tough I mean, when I went on early June and she's finally starting to come around now, but it's been a long haul. And again, you got to worry about those things. You got to take care of them and you got to do what's in your control.
One of those things that I'm hearing there is you've got to take care of your health
Yeah.
and you got to listen to your body. I'm a migraine sufferer.
Okay.
I have had them for decades now, and they suck. And a lot of times they, you know, you have a migraine because they've ruled out everything else. Migraine
Right,
is sort of like this catchall for
right,
we don't know what else it is, but your
Yeah,
brain looks fine
yeah,
and and they're very painful and you kind of learn how to handle them
yeah,
if you haven't had them your whole life and they come on. I can imagine that being scary. It's that's not been my I just live with them.
right. no, she had them earlier in life before we met and I think, like I said, I think she mentioned it once and then I want to go down a rabbit hole. Migraines. But anyway, but, and apparently, but this is the first time that she had one for literally I was sick for two weeks. Right. With a migraine and in
yeah that happens
sick to us And they do you now I've talked to several people like yourself who had them and yeah. And they said, oh, yeah, it's not unusual to have that. You know, you hope that you don't have that long and hopefully she won't get another one. And she's got some medicine now that she didn't have before that could help her, you know, hopefully if she starts to feel that way. But but anyway, but you got to take care of your health. You got to do the things you can do. Right. And this is
the whole point. I agree. Like right now, I feel a bit unhealthy, although I'm very active and all, but I need to start ramping up my health stuff. And I know and that's all that is definitely within my power is definitely within my power to take care of myself mentally, physically, spiritually. Those are all in my power at some level, right? Depending on your physical ability, you can always do something to make yourself feel better. So I need to take
care of those things. And that's again, that's living in the moment that's taken care of. Just as you said, taking care of what we need to take care of so that they don't catch up. Because what happens is for me, when those things start catching up on me, it's when I do, I start wearing down, right? And then I'm you know, I'm susceptible to bad choices, I'm susceptible to bad behavior. And all of that leads me to a place where I'm depressed. I'm not
feeling good. And as far as way of the drink sounds and seems to me today, it's not that far away from me. And I'm having as well. Lately I've been realizing that a drink is not that far away from me, and I don't know why. It's been very real that I realize, Oh, it's really not that far away from me, you know, like, it's. It's there. And it's there for my taking.
it's almost like if you have a cruise liner and you nick enough of those watertight compartments,
Mm.
you're going to sink the boat.
Right,
But it's you have to if you if you get one. Nick and you can close that first door, you're good. But if it overflows that second one and then the third one and the fourth bulkhead,
right,
that's how I look at this, that you've got to take care of yourself. Is that one thing that pisses me off is not going to make me drink today, but I've blown through one firewall.
right,
How many firewalls do I have to get there to when I drink? I don't know.
right.
At this point, it's probably quite a few
Yeah,
early on. Maybe not. But that's where if you're seeing anything pop up that's getting you discontented, you need to address it.
yeah.
Don't let it get to the point where you've blown through five of the bulkheads and then the ship is going to sink.
That, that's a perfect thing to lead into. You know, another thing which I hadn't thought to tell you just brought that up. But, you know, living a day at a time also means and I mentioned it, but it means cleaning up those messes. Right. And
Yeah,
like you said, and that is like that. Me That's what it means. Like, oh, I need to clean that up because if I don't clean that up, that is one of those bulkheads that we've missed. We're letting this sink in and like you said, you know, today we could probably get through a bunch of those and not pick up a drink. the question is, you are absolutely right. I don't know how many I can go right. And it all depends on the day, right? I
right.
mean, if you
You?
want to use the analogy, depends on what the seas are like, right?
Mm
If they're
hmm.
big, heavy weapons seas, then maybe you don't need that many bulk. Okay. So it all depends on what else is going on in my life, you know? So listen, I'm going away to a conference and I've been away to conferences before. And I typically don't have a problem with them because I don't do a lot of the act or after our activities where the heavy drinking happens. You know, I may do a little they may have a little happy hour before dinner
or something. Obviously, they do that I'm in sales and marketing and stuff, so I need to do that, some of that schmoozing. But I'm very much aware in those situations that I need to take care of what I need to take care of. And I've been in the same area in Scottsdale, Arizona. I was there in 2019 for the same conference, and the beautiful thing was I actually found two meetings out there and they were like 6 a.m. meetings I was in. You only did this conference is
only two days. But I went there and I went to two morning meetings. 6 a.m. nice and early, so I got them in before all my appointments and stuff like that. And it was just a beautiful way to take care of myself and make sure that I was doing what I needed to do that day so I could get through that day. And that's the beauty of it. When you when you live a day at a time, you think about, oh, what can I do? What can I do to make myself, you know, more protective from
that first drink? And for me, that was to find a meeting and then go to it.
I think it's also worth looking in saying it's easy to go. And I can't do this happy hour because I'm in recovery.
Yeah,
There's only a happy hour. You don't go to a happy hour every day for the rest of your life.
right,
It's just this one day where they have this happy hour or today and tomorrow while I'm on this trip, this is going on. But it's very easy to think because I'm doing this. This is my new reality, as strange
Right.
as that is, that's how it feels to me. Oh, I have this thing here. It's too much. No, it's just today. Then
Yeah,
I go back to normal.
right.
It's also worth looking at one day at a time in terms of the past. That the past is the past and yeah, I got to clean up the wreckage of the past. But just because something happened in the past doesn't mean I have to relive that today.
Yeah.
I have a new reality today
Yeah, no, I agree. if you clean it, clean it up, you. Then you don't have to relive it. That's the biggest
right?
thing, right? If you clean it up, what happens I think for not I don't think it's unique to alcoholics or addicts or anything. I think for people who don't clean up their messes, that they tend to relive them over and over, either with more anger and more resentment or regret, depending on what you know, how you deal with it. So to me, it's like if I clean it up, then it's gone. Our buddy Essence says, I don't I hate to make amends, so I don't even want to do that behavior. Right.
And I just that's how I tried to live today is like, I don't want to be cleaning up that mess. So I try not to act in a way where I don't have to clean it up. So, absolutely. It's it's so important to focus on what we can do and how we live our lives and just do it. And it's simple. It really is simple. It's not
Mm
easy,
hmm.
but it's it's a really simple way to live. And I think that's the other thing is for me is that I felt like my life was so complicated before I found this program. And things seem to be I didn't know how to I didn't know how to handle certain things. And today I simplify things so much that that it's very easy for me most of the time to handle my business.
Simple does not equal easy.
No,
It never
not
does.
at all.
And everybody can benefit from a housecleaning and making things right and making amends. But they don't have a cookbook like we have. We need to have a cookbook and a recipe to live our lives, especially up front, because of that risk of drinking that we have to do what we have to do not to drink. And having a plan to walk through your life so that you don't have to drink again is what's important. And in terms of the past, this is where it's a lot of work up
front. It's a lot of work up front to write down all of the nastiest stuff that happened and figure out why. Then talk to somebody so that person can help you figure it out. You offload it, then make those amends and make it right with that other person upfront. Now, if you do all that and you've done that work upfront, you just maintain it by as you go along, fix it as it happens.
Right.
Think about the things that you're doing. Did that feel right? Did that not That's a little simpler and a little easier and it doesn't pile up. I'm just walking through like steps four, five, eight,
Right.
nine and ten.
That's that.
And you know, if for some reason you're a me out there and you're listening to this, some reason you can't do that, and I promise it will make your life better.
It really does. You know, the people who do that, I can remember being of people who sort of had it figured out how to live life. And those are the people who who do those things. And there are people who do them naturally. And if you don't do it, is it is a good way to do it. know, I just want to share that, you know, one of the things that we do in our program is like you just, you mentioned that we, we have this toolbox that we use,
right? And I was listening actually to another podcast and, and it's a podcast of person in recovery. And we talk about all time people do different recoveries and I listen to different podcast people, different thing. And this person was at a conference and they, they drink and a beer, right? They drink non-alcoholic
Yep.
beer and they talk about like, listen, you know, some people don't like it. It's the it's part of what I do. But this person talked about being stressed and chugging,
No,
hit the neighbor. And he realized right away he realized right away that, oh, I'm chugging this and a beer. And they said that they had never felt more like drinking and they've been in arousal than they did in that moment. And one of the thing I picked up on it is that they never called. Like, the first thing I would have done was pick up the phone and call somebody.
I would too.
And they didn't do that right. They went back to the room, the, you know, isolated for a while till they calmed down or whatever. And again, their program, t life, they get to do those things. But I thought about I'm like, man, that is where you don't have to you don't have to do this whole program. You don't you can you can do some things. And that was the perfect thing was and, and this, this person had a had a co-host. So does Alison Lowe. One other person, they could
have called, right. And said, Hey,
Yeah. If we don't want to ask for help from other people.
I feel like shit. I feel like drinking right now. What do I do? You know? I mean, so there's things to do
Yeah,
and that is living in the moment for me would be to make sure I took care of that right then and there, you know, make sure I instill like, Oh, what's happening here? I need to take care of this now.
this is one of these things that, regardless of how you got sober, if we're thinking about just for today, have a crew.
Yeah,
Fine. Even if it's long distance. I have people who are friends, who are online, friends that we text or Instagram messages all day, but have somebody that you can reach out to and say, I'm having a problem.
yeah, right.
None of us want to do that. I always feel honored when somebody asks me for help. It makes me feel better that I can give advice and it's something that helps somebody else. And that's the number one thing. If you're in this position, you cannot you cannot stay sober or get sober on your own if you can, and you're happy. God bless you. I can't. I do need community and as much of an introvert as I am, I get real energy from other people. You got to find your crew no matter where it is. And
do ask for help. If you're in that I'm chugging in on a non alcoholic beer. You've got to reach out to somebody and say, Hey, I'm feeling this way because what I find when I do that, it disappears. It's gone. As soon
right.
as I pick up the phone.
Me too. Soon as I talk to a lot of times, even if I just leave a message to another alcoholic
Mm hmm.
for me again, this is me. I feel better. Like, I just told somebody about it, right? Literally, I just does. And the people I call, if I told them that they called me back. Right. They're not going to let me hang. They're going to call me back and check on me and make sure I'm okay. And that's the other beauty thing about having your crew, as you call them. I like that. I like that word. I that to know that people care about you enough to call you back and
make sure you're okay. I mean, that's that's a huge feeling. All right. It's a huge feeling. So obviously, we have some of us have family that do that or other people. But to know that there's a whole community of people for me, that if I gave them that phone call, you know, my phone's going to ring off the hook and I'm going to be able to
Yeah,
talk to people.
absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
We want to hear from you. What are your thoughts on the one day at a time? How do you live? One day at a time. What does it mean to you? The email is Matt at Sober Friends podcast. I'd love for you to give us a follow on Instagram at Sober Friends podcast. We're coming up on a big number and I'd like to get over that big number. It would be awesome. You know, Steve, you were talking about another recovery podcast.
Mm.
Tell us what you listen to. You know,
Right.
you can I'm hoping that you do listen to other recovery podcasts. There's tons out there of all different flavors. There's enough audience for all of us. I would love to get feedback of what is the other stuff that you listen to. I kind of want to be. I have guesses, but I'd love to be surprised that it's an off the wall recovery show that I never would know about or guess I'd love to know. What's the other stuff that you listen to? Steve thanks for keeping it one day at a time today,
All right. Thank you.
and we'll see you all next week by everybody.