E128: Setting Boundaries

happy to front. But Angie, Caleb, Mitzi, we're so grateful that you thought that this was important enough to help us out, to help put this podcast in the ear of somebody who really needs it. I'll tell you, Angie, Angie is somebody who I think keeps sober friends part alive on Facebook. Not a big following there, But Angie is there every single podcast. We are so grateful to Angie, Caleb and Mitzi who went to buy me a coffee. Dot com slash sober

friends. Why? Because it's important to get this into the new guy or gals ears. I was a little salty today, Steve. Actually, I was quite a bit salty today and I had to set some boundaries up with some people. There is this tendency at work where I have people who kind of come out of the woodwork about 5 to 10 minutes before it's time to log off and they start asking me for things. hmm. Hmm hmm. Some Hmm hmm hmm of these hmm hmm.

people have other leaders who I don't know where they are, but they all come to me because I'm America's supervisor at work. I can send me your poor, send me you're tired. And at 330 somebody popped up who doesn't belong to me and said, I know you're about to log off, but I just need you to do something real quick. And you know what my response was? What's that? I restarted my computer and I walked away. Yeah. Those boundaries are tough. There's a That's a great follow

on tick tock. I don't know if I follow this person anymore, they would talk about this exact situation. How do you handle this stuff? Mostly in the work situation, Right? Yeah. How do you handle this when people are asking me to do something and this this this, this content content provider would go into like, this is how you should handle this or how you say it in a nice professional way. So yeah, I get that boundaries are always important. Boundaries are hugely important with in your sobriety.

Hugely. Especially early sobriety. the boundaries I had to set in early sobriety were really, really strict for me. They they had to be right. I mean, I had to change everything. Everything. Early sobriety in order to survive those really early times of cravings and obsessions and and still dealing with all the emotional baggage and not having alcohol to hide those emotions. I had to set up some really, really stringent boundaries with people, places

and things, you know. So, yeah, it's a great it's a great thing to talk about. It's a great thing that we all have to go through I don't know if I'm great at this, mostly because I have a hard time explaining where I would be good at it. Although I think I do this quite a bit. I had to set the boundary tonight. Mark from recovered reached out. Hey, can you jump on and do recovered cast tonight, which I like to do. It's good promotion for this show. It's a big podcast. It's important. It's

been around forever. I said no. right? I had to take my daughter to soccer practice. I had to set that boundary. Yeah. So I think the boundary thing also ties in to priorities. What's important, Yeah. what's not important, and what Yeah. are that level of importance? I have a friend who reached out and said he's

co-parenting now. He recently got a divorce a couple of years ago and one of his kids is rather young and they have one of those plans at work, at school where they have accommodations for anxiety and that type of stuff. I have a daughter who's on one of these plans for dyslexia and for anxiety, and they're important. If you don't get them. You can't push the school around to say, I need this, this in this for my kids. They need both parents signature. His ex is in the Dominican Republic for Mm.

the week and she's not responding to any emails and he is not happy. I wouldn't Yeah. be happy. I'd be pissed. Right. I would be livid. That's a priority to me. If there's something to do with the plan for my daughter, I drop everything no matter what. those are important things. So you said a lot of a lot of priorities, which is what I said. Right. So early sobriety. You're

listening. If you new to sobriety, if you're trying to figure out if you need some help with sobriety or getting sober, you know, some of the things I'll talk about some of the things that I had to do. But one of the big things that happened to me when I relapsed, when I came back, which is really when I found this program and the honest way is that one of the spiritual awakening moments for myself, the spiritual shock, whatever you want to call it. Some people call them God shots.

And I was about two weeks newly sober. I really was very full of my own ego. I really was. I was cocky. I know that I feeling tell the story. I tell a story. When I came back to my Friday night meeting, I was really cocky. Hey. Hey, guys, I'm back. Look at me. I'm back. You know, I was very,very cocky. But anyway, we had a party scheduled, but I. We're about two weeks in. Was already scheduled. We had about 20 people. I forget probably a birthday party

celebration or something. I forget exactly what it was. they're about 20 people in our backyard. And my kids, my wife's kids, friends, all that kind of stuff. And when I finished up my drinking, I was drinking wine just like my wife, because I was trying to hide it from her. And so this party's got going on and I go in the fridge for something and I open up the doors and the fridge and there's two bottles of wine sitting there. And it

just shook me to my bones. I had a panic attack and I talked about it before and I literally I went to my bedroom. I call up a couple of guys I knew in the program and my wife came in and said, Hey, what's going on? I told her. And what she said to me was, Would it be better if we got all the alcohol out of the house? Right? And I said, Yes. And that night after everybody know, and I didn't I made it

through that night. She took all of every bit of alcohol that was in the house and there was quite a bit put it in a laundry basket and put it in the trunk of a car. And I never saw it again. I never saw any of that alcohol. And that was one of the boundaries I had to do. Like there could be no alcohol now, tonight there can be alcohol in my house, right? but back then there could be no alcohol in my house. You know, I couldn't hang out with certain

people. I couldn't hang out with family members because everything they did was around alcohol. So one of my siblings, I could not go over their house because like, hey, come on over some pizza. Brian's going to make pizza on the grill. And I always I've said it before on this podcast, it was just an excuse to drink, maybe eat a little bit of pizza. But the big Right, part of that whole deal was drinking, not pizza, you know? right. So I had I had a I had to step

away. And it took those boundaries for me to be safe. All of those things I can do today, none of those things. But at that time, my priority was getting sober and staying sober, which it still is today. So if any of those things bother me, then I won't do them or I'll leave them. But it's very different today, That's the number one boundary. If you're brand new at the minimum of that pyramid, the foundation is whatever it takes to do, to be sober and to stay

sober. That's what you do. And right? it means that if you have to leave somewhere, I guess the term is an Irish goodbye is you just leave and don't say goodbye to anybody. You do that. It doesn't matter whether you root or not.If you got to get the hell out of Dodge to stay sober, you get the hell out of Dodge. Early on, I. I had to look this up of what I. What I drink. The thing that kind of saved me early on were these San Pellegrino drinks with juice in them. They're these Okay.

sparkling drinks. They must be loaded with sugar, but they have orange, they have lemon, and they are terrific. And when I first got sober, it's what I brought to events. And I must have down I down, down, like ten, 12 Right. of these When I first Yeah, got sober because right. I needed something, Right, I was lucky enough that I had a newborn at that time. We went to a graduation, a graduation party, and there was a lot of drinking people there who have problem drinking. And I

use the baby as an excuse. Got to go, got to change a diaper, got right. to go, got to feed the baby Right, because it got me away. And I told my wife, this is what I need to do. And she was good at it. You are very lucky that your wife offered to throw the booze away. right. This is not the norm. And I. I know some people who came in when I came in who had spouses who were in active addiction, and they were getting sober. I know of one guy who has been around the program for 20,

30 years. His wife has never stopped drinking and is a has does a lot of drinking. And there are people who get sober through that. Mm hmm. That's hard. I never had to experience it. Yeah, My wife didn't offer. I came down one day and she was dumping some of her favorite sparkling wine and like, What are you doing? She goes, Don't want to have it around. right, And that was a wonderful act of love that she did for me. And I didn't ask for it, but it's the right thing to do at

the time. Now, if there needs to be booze in the house now, it's not a problem. But I've been sober nine years. right. I've done the work. If you listen to us and you're like, Well, why is it such a problem to me? I've been sober a month, two months? It's because you've been sober a month or two months. Don't don't compare. But this is the first boundary you got to set. If you got to get the hell out of there, if you got to throw away all the booze, you do whatever you need to do right

now to stay sober. That's number one. I'll tell you another one that I struggled with, which was going to meetings and getting that permission to go to meetings because my wife was not supportive at first, at least the amount of meetings I was going to. And with the idea, I would go to these meetings forever. And I had a newborn and I had a two year old and a 14 minus nine is what, five, four Yeah, or five yeah, right. young kids. She Yeah. was pissed at Absolutely.

me and I struggle and are times I didn't go to meetings because she was pissed off. How do you set that boundary early on Well, that's a tough one. It really is. And I struggle with that. And this is this is no blame on anybody, cause I talk about it a lot, but when I first came into the program, I came in in 95, I had two small kids at home. I had a two year old and a five year old. And once I stopped drinking and I felt better, I truly thought that it was my job. I've talked about it

on this podcast. I've talked, I talk about it when I speak. I truly thought that it was my job to go home and be a dad, a husband. I started working and making money like I thought that was what I was supposed to do. It was the wrong decision at the time. And what happened was my meetings started going down until they went to nothing. And, you know, it took me a long time. Story went on. 14 years later, I relapsed. But that's a tough one. Even today. Right now, let me

step back a little bit. That day that my wife offered to take all the booze out of the house was because she saw something different in me that she had never seen before. She saw total fear, Right? Fear that I and the words I told her and this is important. And again, this is one of those things that I realized, like, wow, what happened that day? She came in, I was literally on the bed in a

fetal position. I had called two people, my of my sponsor, my former sponsor, because I didn't have a sponsor at that point and his sponsor. And she came in and I said, I just called two guys. And if either one of them call me back, I'm going to have them come get me right. There are 20 people in my backyard and I was willing to leave because that's how shaken I was. And then I said to her these words, and these were two words that changed my life. I mean, I'm an alcoholic and I don't know how

to fix it. I realized that at that point that was my bottom. At that point, I realized like, oh, wait a minute, I really don't know what's going on here. And that shook. I think that shook her to her bones. And she was like, Oh, this is different. This is not the confident, cocky guy that I know. This is somebody who's really beaten up, and I really do. I think she did it a little bit for self-preservation, too. So that's that that part of it.

Even today, my wife doesn't love the fact that I have to spend as much time as I do in AA, going to meetings, going to function, doing the podcast to. She has gone to district meetings right? All that kind of stuff. Took a speaking commitment. Right. I'm lucky I could speak during the day, took a speaking commitment. 12 noon next Wednesday in Hartford. Right. So you know I those are the things I do today to stay sober. So she'll say to me like, oh, what's that, six AA

things this week? And I'll go, Yeah, you know, maybe it'll be seven. It was. Sometimes they get fresh and like, you keep talking, I'll make it seven or eight because I need that stuff. I need that stuff and I have to give it back. I have to I have to try to make sure that, you know, all those people who helped me out that I can pay that back somehow. I did another podcast before this one and I started really podcasting in January

2019. She is never giving me a hard time about the podcasting because she sees it as an outlet for me Mm until hmm. it becomes unhealthy, and then she tells me to knock it off. I'm lucky there that we've gotten to the point where she understands there are certain outlets that if I'm allowed to have, I'm a lot easier to deal with. The podcast is one of those things that she allows me to do. I had I don't know if I had a bad day at work. I just

had a bad mindset. There were a couple of things that happened. I knew that this was coming, but it's still bothered me overnight. There was this very important word at work that is given out. It's called a Circle of Success Award and it was given to the team that handled new hire development. I was on this team. The team was nominated by somebody who for whatever reason, didn't realize I was on the team. Mm. And so this entire team won this award and I was on it

and I didn't. And nobody spoke up for me Oh, and that pissed me off. yeah, Should I have spoken up earlier? Probably because. But I didn't because, you know, sometimes in corporate, if you speak up, you're just being a crybaby. right. And so I really dealt with that for a couple months. And I people were posting these things on LinkedIn. It pissed me Mm. off today that set me off. And so I'm going to have to have a conversation with my boss about it and say, Hey, this went

on. It kind of pissed me off or pissed me off was, I wish somebody spoke up for me Right, and not somebody noticed and that I don't have to be the person to have to speak up on something like that. It's not really fair. It's not the award, it's the and this has happened to me like over and over again. I've been on these projects where everybody wins an award and I'm the one who doesn't. right. Listen, it's. Those things are tough. Those things.

When you're excluded, I'll just tell really short stories here. When I was first married, my. My former in-laws on a beautiful place up in Maine, and my brother in law at the time was a salesman of boat parts, you know, big boat parts and stuff like that, and would go around to all the different marinas, papel shafts, all kinds of playas talk about. And there was a a place in Maine, one of the places he went which was really fairly well known at the time. One day

he shows up at the house. My two brother in law's lives, there's only there's three girls. So my two brother in law's my father in law, and me four guys for their right. He walks in with three hats from this marina and gives them to everybody else except me. What's that all about? Right. What's that all about? And, you know, it was like, Oh, I didn't know you'd be here. Whatever it was, I'll just tell you, it's a huge punch in the gut, you know? It's a huge punch

in the gut. Like you said, when you're there, you're on that team. You did. You deserve that award. But I never I'd never forgot that. I mean, I just felt like, Exactly. What's that all about? Like, you know, I mean, if I walk in and I see that I don't give you know, I don't give away hats at that point, you know, I Yes, mean, I was like, you know, So anyway, Yes, but those are the type of things that they they hurt. They hurt. And you know, something mad. This is the beauty of it, right?

If if I, I don't think I was drinking at that time. I don't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure I wasn't drinking at that point. matter of fact, I know I was I wasn't drinking But if I was drinking and if you were drinking, all right, what would you do? You'd. It's the perfect excuse to go home and then say, I'm going to throw back a few because I'm pissed off today yes. and I have this resentment, right? These folks, these people leave me out, you know? And today we don't have to do that.

You Yeah. know, Here is I call my wife because what I did is I went to the gym. That's Nice. one of those things that I have set some boundaries around that I go with my son. We go quite frequently and my wife has been good at understanding. There are some times I need to go there, but I got on the phone and I talked to her and it kind of sounded like this Yeah. and she's like, Are you going to go work out? Yeah, yeah, Do you think you'll feel better after working out? yeah.

Hit the heavy bag a little bit. I went and so I did some squats yesterday. I haven't done squats in the squat rack in a while. I'm struggling to walk today. Yeah, Today I did some chest exercises and I did about 30 minutes. But at about 30, 35 minutes, I just couldn't do one more tricep exercise. yeah. I just they were just burning like I couldn't lift my All arms. So right. I went short. But I went heavy today. And I did. I felt a

little bit better. There is that trigger with me that if I don't feel included and I don't feel something is fair, that is something that really fires me up and yeah, would have been a trigger to go drink in the past. Absolutely. Not today. Absolutel. We don't need to do that. I mean, that's the beauty of the program, right? Is that we have these we have these tools that we do not need to do that. And one of those is boundaries, right? One Mm of those hmm. is, like you said, it's the

boundaries. And it's like like you said, you know, some of these boundaries are home. You know, some of these we try to we try to be fair to the the people that we live with or the people that we're in relationships with. But there's even times where you just got to say, screw it. Like you said, like going to the gym was a great way to handle something like that. Just get that frustration out. Push, push, push. I used to do that all the time. I used to do that all the

time. it's a great way to to handle some frustration besides drinking, I probably didn't take the amount of rest between sets that I probably needed right? to, Yeah. cause I was just push, push, Yeah, push, push, push. And I was yeah. just so grateful I could get some of the equipment I could at the time I went because it's a zoo there at that time. But I need to do those healthy things. I need those outlets. I'm lucky I have a partner who

understands that. And I had the time because she was taking the kids to go get their teeth cleaned. She went to the dentist. This reminds me of another boundary and I was good at this, but I try to remember my own health and I've set the boundary that I have to go to my doctor's appointments and I have to call the dentist and I have to call the eye doctor and do those things. And there have been periods of time where I have not

been so good at that. I'd say within the last five years I've really set those markers down. But since 2018, Oh, when my mother passed away of going and taking care of my health, that is incredibly helpful for me. If you're sitting there and you've been sober for a while for getting sober, that's something to overlook. I can call the doctor later for a routine appointment. It's not that big of a deal. You got to do that. You got to take care of your teeth. You got to

take care of your health. If you need glasses, go to the eye doctor regularly. It's easy for me to push that off and it's like, Dammit, I'm going to prioritize this phone call and I'm going to put it on the on the calendar. And there are times that it's during the workday and I schedule myself out. I'm fortunate I have that ability, right. but I'm going to do that and I'm not going to apologize to my boss for

No, I learned. I learned long ago some personal stuff that I have to take care of my health. You know? You know, I have you know, I don't know how much I've talked about it on this podcast, but, you know, cancer has killed a bunch of my family members. I've my mother recovering cancer patient that was discovered because I listened to my doctor. It was it was discovered in a strange way, but my doctor just told me to go get an eye exam to see what you're talking about.

And they found that I had a tumor in my eye, and only because I took care of my health is probably I mean, this honestly might be why I'm still alive today. Cause I listen to my doctor and I took care of it. And it is so important to do that. And not only go to the doctor, but like you said, I'm glad you know you're going to the gym. Hey, you know, thank your son for that, right? Your son's the one who started that for you. Encourage you to do it. Got you to go with him. it's

just such a great thing to do. I mean, it's just one of those things. We need some. We need some physical exercise. We obviously need to eat as healthy as we possibly can. And then we need some, some type of, you know, spiritual, if you will, or whatever. There's some type of intellectual outlet. I think that is the podcast for you, right? I think part of that you doing a podcast is a big outlet for you Yes, and we need to take care of all those aspects in life to be

healthy. And all this stuff is something when I neglect one of those and part of the I've been neglecting the physical part partly because of I had a foot and a boot. You know, there's other things I could have done for a long time, but but I feel it now. I feel like my whole body aches because I'm just not doing enough. and I need to do more. I mean, I do plenty of work around here, but but we got to take care of those. We got to

find those boundaries. We got to find those limits and we got to try to keep ourself healthy. this is something I talked to Mike about on the way out of the meeting because we were talking a little bit about the church. There is some sprucing up that they've done it. It seems like progressive in the sense that it's a modern environment in front of the door. They change it every once in a while. There's a sign there. They had a balloon drop for

Easter. There are fun things that they do at this church to keep it modern. I'm a Roman Catholic. There is nothing created. Created. I told Mikey that creative the Catholic Church is where creativity goes to die. All right? And Yeah. he talked about, you know why? You know, I go to Catholic Church every week and I All go, right. No, I know you do, Mike. And I told them, you know, I admire you and I'm envious. And he had told me and this is really one of his boundaries. I

didn't go for a while. I had trouble with belief, but I just felt it calling. I felt an emptiness inside. And Yeah. that emptiness got filled by going to church each week. And I go to church and I feel something every time. And I told them, I'm so envious of how you feel. And it is a reminder that Mike doesn't question this stuff. He doesn't overthink He it. he He doesn't felt the emptiness. He knew what to do. He did it. write Mike doesn't have a lot, but he's a lot more fulfilled it.

than a lot of other people. I think he's fulfilled in many ways than I am. And I'll tell you, I agree. I agree 100% with everything you just said about him. He is so comfortable there. We talk about it. I talk about it with a matter of fact, on the way into the meeting, he was he was asking me like, Hey, do you believe in God? And we got into this whole conversation and but he loves his church. He loves God. He gets a lot out of it and it gives him peace. He tells me all the time, Hey, I pray, I

pray for you. I pray for your wife. And He he told means me he's going it to pray for me. and he means it. And he will. Yes. He will pray for for everybody. So it's just listen. It's what he does. I was brought up a Roman Catholic, too. It's not my gig anymore, but I've given Mike plenty of rights at church. His foot was in a boot for a long time. He broke his ankle and it was in the middle of the winter and I picked him up for months and drove in. The church,

dropped him off. Is not too far from my house, and I'd go back an hour later and I pick him up and I bring him home. You know, that's his that's his thing. If fulfills him, I'm happy to help him fulfill his life. So Mike's a great guy. Once I see I know the format of the Catholic Church, the Catholic mass, and I am just timing it out by where we are when Yeah, we get to like the Psalms. I know we're moving along, right. get to the Alleluia. Yeah, I know we're almost halfway done because we're at

the homily. And once the homily is done, we're doing the Eucharist prayer. And once I've gotten through that Eucharist, I'm tapping my tap of my shoe. And sometimes I get really angry because there's like a couple people left to get communion. And the organist starts another song. right, Like, if we had moved a little bit further, we would have been done. But now we have to get through another song right. and Well, I'm you done usually, though, drop off a

couple verses just. But you're right, they will keep playing until everybody's done. right. And he doesn't think that way, you know, he gets something out of it. I'm not in that place, right, but it's clear that that's a boundary. And Mike doesn't believe in God. He knows God. Right. He knows there's a God Yeah. in So his Jesus heart. And I am says so envious of that. gets up, he's always talking. Well, you know, it does his thing says my say my prayers every day. Do he does all his

things. He's like I said, he's a good guy. And I always tell him, You keep praying for me, Mike. Mm You keep praying hmm. for me. I need it. Keep praying. I need to remember all this stuff around boundaries because I am, by nature, a people pleaser. I me don't too. like to say no. I Yeah, want to say yes to everybody. I want everybody to like me. I me don't too. want anybody to be disappointed by me. Yeah, And this is something where there's continuous work all I'm. the time.

I'm better at it today. But there was a time where I really struggled with that and got myself in a lot of bad situations because I was the same way. I hated to say no. I hated to disappoint. Still, I hate to disappoint people today, but I'm able to say no today. If you know, I actually know that sometimes, just like you said with the Recovery podcast, sometimes no is the correct answer, right? It's just a right answer for me and for for lots of things.

I'm always asking at the end of this podcast to send us a message, continue the conversation. I was on the Sober Motivation podcast a couple of weeks ago and I got blown away by people reaching out, saying that my story connected with them. And, you know, if you find us on the charts, you'll find sober motivation by looking up. It's a pretty big podcast. And I was really overwhelmed and I got one just by a regular listener. And I'm going to share this like giving too much of his

information away. But this email really has stuck with me. Hey, guys have been listening to your podcast. Now, my name is James. I'm 38 years sober. I'm exactly where Steve is in regards to believing in God. I was a born again Christian when I first came into the program. I was quoting the Bible at meetings. I found such comfort in my faith in Jesus. This many years later. I don't believe in God anymore,

but I still pray. It's been a very deep habit to pray when I'm afraid, worried about loved ones, confused and grateful. So I still do. It still feels comforting. I also still use my God box to write down a note of a situation I'm stressed about, date it, place it in a cookie jar, and then. And then it's given to me by an elder, a friend who has passed that it was her God box. I don't think it's hypocritical because they say prayer doesn't change God.

Prayer changes me and it helps me continue praying to the universe, the power of love, or a tremendous group of invisible connections of like mindedness evolving towards good. So there I wish you had spoken more about what your use of your higher Power is rather than how you define it. Like, how do you work your second step? What does it mean to turn your life over to that power? What what are your priority is what your priorities look like when you're practicing? I'm a night custodian who works

alone. I listen to many podcasts. Yours makes me feel a little bit more connected to the program. Hearing the same language. Thank you. This is Thank you. this was. Oh, he he said he bought Bill Spielberg's book and is really enjoying it. That episode was awesome. Oh, Trust me. That was awesome to do. I don't care if anybody listened to Bill Berg's episode. yeah. Yeah. It was awesome for me. No, that was awesome. I'm so disappointed. Tony, Why did you have to die? Ha ha ha ha.

I missed that. But Yeah, that's. That was really nice. That was sort of. That was a nice thing. And, yeah, we'll have to look at some of those suggestions of how to talk about it. there's It's interesting. there's several episodes in this. I, I just want to tell you something about that is that just happened to me. And it's interesting that he said that what was his name again? I'm sorry, James James. James, just it just just

happened to me this week. James is that when we closed our prayer and everybody said the Lord's Prayer, the Father, I literally thought of the universe as I prayed it. It was the first time I did that. I literally thought of the stars and the sun and the skies and how it is. And it was the first time and I'm like, Yeah, I can still pray. I sort of just came to that conclusion. I can still pray to something different because that's something I struggled with and he helped.

And you just help me, James. You just helped me. I'm very humbled that when I'm doing tasks, I listen to a lot of podcasts at work, when I'm doing certain things that I got to dial into a lot of them being mundane Mm tasks. hmm. And it just to me, it's the ultimate compliment that you've let us into your ears at that moment when you're doing those things.

Yeah, To me it's like when you're inviting a podcast, the rotation of podcasts that I have, that I bring to work or when I'm walking or working out or wherever, those people are like family to me in a sense, like I feel like I know those people, the yeah, ones I listen all the time. yeah, yeah, And to be allowed in like that means the most to that email. And I got a lot of emails recently that one meant the most. And I'm looking at I'm like,

He's right. There's a lot of topics here that we can cover. So we're going to do that for you. Steve, always good to see you. Always yeah, a good episode. yeah. Thanks, Matt. You're welcome. And I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you are setting good boundaries for yourself and if you're not, keep practicing. It's okay to fail as long as you're learning from them by everybody. See you next week.