when I was sober for about three or four months, my wife rolled over in bed one night and said, So how long do you have to keep going to these meetings? And I knew that was going to be a lot of trouble. Steve, how you doing?
Hey, man, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I was just wondering where John might be, like, maybe out in the woods, like, trying to kill something and cook it for dinner or what? What do you think?
Or getting killed by one of those things?
Yeah,
I was thinking
yeah,
about him because when
yeah,
this drops, he will have 23 years sober.
yeah. You're absolutely right.
Valentine's Day. Congratulations,
Now,
John.
23 years know was going to have 33 years.
Is it. Oh, is it okay? Yeah, you're
Yeah,
right. My, my, my
yeah,
mouth. My my mouth was off.
33 years. Next Wednesday.
Wow.
So
Okay.
next year and next. So anyway, next one's there next Tuesday. Is that, uh,
Tuesday
Tuesday.
14th.
Next Tuesday? Yep. Next to them. Looking at it now. Anyway, I'm glad to be here, Matt. Things are good. Things are good.
Yeah.
Uh,
Things are good. My way. I, I can do another topic on halt if I needed to, because
okay.
my, my wife was away last week, so Mm. I am tired and when I get tired I'm all over the place. But I'm doing the right things because I'm doing this. I consider this a meeting Yeah. and I go to my Monday meeting and I probably guess you should go to more meetings, but I'm doing what I can. But the topic tonight is why do we still carry the message? Why do we still go to meetings? Why do we still listen to podcasts? Why do we still do the things that you
have to do in recovery? Because if you got sober, won't you just have to stop? Aren't you cured? The answer is no. No. And we need to talk about why that's the case.
Yeah. I mean, it's an important for some of us. And I know you and I feel the same way. And this is important for. For me to stay connected. Because I find that when I don't stay connected, when I'm not in touch with those things that helped get me sober, um, that I start to drift. And that drift is.
It's unnoticeable. You know, I tell the story, and years ago when I and this was when I came back, I had a speaking engagement and I went out to a small, you know, a small suburb outside of Hartford, Connecticut, and it wasn't a big maybe 15 people. But anyway, I told my story and my story happened to be a typical story where I stopped going to meetings and I relapsed and an older gentleman came up to me and he said something that I've shared and many people have have bought
into it. He came up to me and said, You know, I noticed that. I realized that when I stopped going to meetings, my thinking changed and I didn't notice. And that's the problem. It changes so slightly that I don't notice the change. And and again, you know, I am I have, you know, the hindsight of understanding what happens when I don't go to meetings. Right. And
I think
that for me was a relapse and another almost catharsis, fear of my life, almost another divorce, all of those things. And luckily they were almost for me, they didn't happen. But that's where I was headed. If I didn't get back into the program. So for me, it's easy for me to say, Oh, I know why I need to go to meetings, but it might be harder for somebody who maybe came in and they put together a good bunch of sobriety and now they're wondering, Oh, do I still need to go to meetings?
You know? And why? Why do we go to meetings?
I'd love to know a little bit your thoughts on if you drift away from meetings. Why do you drift off on your sobriety? What do you think causes that?
Well, I think it's you know, it's like anything else, if you don't use it, you lose it. And that's any skill or habit or anything. Right. So if you'll and this is from again, from my experience, if you're a gym rat and you love going to the gym or working out or you're a runner and you like to run that, when you start to learn to slack off of that, if you're used to running five times a week and you start running three or four and then two, like all of a sudden it gets harder to get
back into it. And and I think that's with a lot of things. I also think that for me and for many alcoholics, the the danger is so high, right? I mean, it's not just, you know, you're going to get out of shape or maybe, you know, maybe there's something else going on or maybe, you know, if you're in school, maybe you don't do as well grade wise if you start slacking off on some. But for for me, it's a really, really I mean, there's a lot we talk a lot about the jets out there.
You know, I've never spent a day in jail. I've never spent a day in prison. Yet I never you know, I've never had an accident where I severely injured or killed somebody yet. All of those things are possible for me. If I start drinking again, they can all come in and in those to me, I go to meetings. I hear those stories. Right. Friday night, one guy, a guy came in. We had a new guy came in. Who? Just a new guy. You would know him just came in. I think you would know
him. I think he was one of the Thursday night guys for a while, but came in. I think he just mind. He just got out of jail, right? He and he was in the program, lost his way, started drinking. My understanding there was a domestic violence type of thing and he ended up in jail. And that's that's what's waiting for us. You know, that's what waits awaits for us if we if we don't keep our head into this program.
The habit thing is big for me. Going to Joe and Charlie at John's house on Wednesdays has been a bit of a lift because Mm I hmm. got to drive a half hour and I'm there for a couple of hours and then I'm driving home and there's other things that I have packed into my routine and doing that one extra is different. It would be great if I could find a good Wednesday night meeting after that's over, Right. because I'll stick with it, because I'll be in the habit.
But it becomes difficult. I can do what I'm doing as long as I'm doing it. Right. Once something drops, it is. It's really hard to get back in that routine.
I agree 100%. When I when I do a certain amount of meetings, it's like once I'm into it, if I add another meeting to my schedule, not only I get used to it, but my wife gets used to it, and then we're able to plan around that. And and then all of a sudden, if you stop that, then you know that that night becomes available and it gets a little bit harder for me. It gets harder to go back and get back into that routine. And I agree with the John Charlie on Wednesday night. It's
a nice little uplift for me. Um, it's it's more of an intense little thing, right? I mean, it's, it's six or seven of us there, depending on how many guys are showing up and you know and it's basically, you know, pretty much a two hour, two hour meeting. So it really is a little bit different. And I actually think it's a great way to to spend 15, 16 weeks of doing something like that.
If you haven't done a Joe and Charlie, get yourself into it. I've got some ideas on something we might be able to do as a podcast around it, although I don't want to add another project right now because I've got a project working that is killing me. It is something worth doing. If when you're around a small group of men or a small group of women and you're together one day a week for a couple of hours every single week, it does tighten you up and you're all moving in the same
direction. And you have to you have to share at these things because there's only like six people there. But they are great instances. And this kind of goes into my thought around why I keep going and why you could slip. And I think that is that contact with another alcoholic. I was thinking about this last
night. You can quibble with the higher power stuff and there's some other things that like, well, you know, if I if I don't really do an amends here or there, I don't think there's any quibbling that you get a lot of benefit from interacting with another alcohol. And if I'm not going to meetings, I'm probably not making phone calls to other people in the program. right. I think that's the issue.
Like if I'm not going to go to meetings, what I should do is I should be making phone calls or texting or being in contact with people. yeah, There's like a week that this is going to be tough, be in contact with people, because I think it's that contact piece that's really important. yeah, And I think that's the thing that Bill really nailed is that constant contact with another alcoholic yeah.
There's some things that you can't quibble about and there's some things that you can say you don't like about this program. And, and I would wholeheartedly, you know, I feel the same way about some things of my own. But you're absolutely right. The the the contact with another alcohol like on a regular basis. Right you know that said other places is you know regular meetings on you know
regular places. So you go to a meeting where everybody can knows you, everybody you know, knows how how you act typically so that people get to know you so that when you're off that these people can identify, It's really easy for me, you know, my my two main meetings and then with the Joe and Charlie, you know, there's a small group of people and I'm just telling you they could they could tell you. They could tell me. I mean, when I'm not right, Like they could
really identify that. And they'll look at me like, Hey, you okay? What's going on? Right? They'll pick up on that because they see me all the time and I'm the same way. Like I could tell they're grouchy or this, and I can say, Hey, what's going on? You know, why are you so grouchy today? So, yeah, going to those regular meetings for me is really important. And that's why I, like I said, I find the
meetings I like. I've encouraged guys that I've worked with to do the same thing, find whatever meetings you like and stick to those meetings. And that doesn't mean you can't change that up once in a while either. But stick to those meetings so that people get to know you so you can have that contact with other alcoholics.
or could sick. The other approach that you just keep switching meetings so you don't meet those people. Yeah, right. People do that.
Yeah, yeah. People do that and you see that all the time. People pop in this meeting, that meeting. But listen, it's all about quality of sobriety for me. It's not about quantity. I really I mean this honestly, I don't pay a lot of attention to how many years I have. I do, because I really think it's important. Like, how am I doing today? Oh, my acting today.
No,
You know, one of the big questions is how am I acting at home today? You know, um, one of the things a little story is we've, uh, we took in a cat over the weekend, and there's a long story behind it. I won't, but it was my mother in law's old cat, and we had given it to a friend of ours who's one of us and has slept. And she's been taking care of this cat for the last eight years. But she's not doing well right now. And my wife said to me last week, I think I need to go get the cat from this
person. And I you know, we have a dog. I didn't want a cat and I want to introduce this whole thing, but I get it. It's like I get the fact that my wife felt like this and, you know, we need it. And the truth is, like I told my wife, like, this is not going to be fun like this, right? We're going to introduce this. We get it. This is not it. This I know this cat because my mother loves is not a sociable cat. You know, it doesn't like a
lot of attention. It's not a so, you know, my meeting helps me d my meetings helped me deal with that situation. Like, I immediately understood that I was going to be under a lot of pressure to do a lot of work with this cat because I demand a lot out of the animals that live in my house. And I have and I've embraced it. And the reason why I was able to am able to do that is because I go to meetings and I talk to people and our buddy
Edson, right. And this is I told him Friday, I'm like, Hey, guess what? I'm picking up a cat tomorrow and like, I don't want a cat. And he looked at me and he goes, You didn't want your freaking dog before he did. Yeah. And I said,
that's right.
Right. So and I left. And that's, I mean so it's a knows me so he can call me on that because if you haven't heard I love my dog which I did not want at the time we got it but
It's
he
a great.
immediate Job. he he immediately said that to me you didn't want the freaking dog, did you. I'm like, You're absolutely right, you know, And so anyway, so that's off the topic a little bit. But but that is why I go to meetings. I go to meetings because it helps me deal with that situation. Stress will be higher with me and my wife, which is fine. We may not be getting along as well, but it doesn't have to blow out of proportion. That's the key, right? It's like,
okay, I sort of get it. Um, but the other and the other thing we were talking about is like when we went, you know, I mean, we've talked about this before. Our meetings are getting smaller,
Yes.
right? And we've talked about like, why do we go to a meeting when there they're maybe will only be three or four people. Right. And we just had this, you know, last week and the meeting where people had shared like they would go to a meeting, there would only be two people. And the question was brought up, Do you still have a meeting if there's only two of you? Right. And that that was that was part of that discussion
is why do we. And then the answer is, why do you have that meeting if there's only two of you? And it's the same reason why we do this podcast, right? We do this podcast because we don't know who's going to be out there listening to it, and we don't know if somebody is going to come across this podcast who may need to hear something that we're talking about that night. Maybe it's this one, maybe it's another one, but that's why we do it and that's why you have a meeting. If you've even if it's
just two of you. And for as far as I'm concerned, if I'm opening up a place for a meeting and I'm the only person who shows, I probably sit there for most of that meeting time and read in case somebody shows up, you know? So those are the type of things that we talk about. People wonder and like your wife wondered, you know, how long you have to do this, You know, And again, when you start looking at it, yeah, it it's like, do I have to stay sober of my whole life? Do I have to not drink for
the rest of my life? And the answer is no. You just have to not drink for today. You know,
It's a tough thing to think about the rest of your life.
I agree. And that's why you know, that's why you don't think about, Oh, I have to do the meetings for the rest of my life now. I just have to do these meetings for now, For today, for this week, you know, And then it all sort of works its way out. Um, you know, there's, there's a fellowship. We talk about it. There's a fellowship that goes on. You know, I go to these meetings usually there's lots of laughing and lots of joking before and afterwards. Sometimes the
meeting is fun. Sometimes the meeting is dead serious, depending on the meeting and panel on topic. But but there is a social aspect to it, too.
Yeah. Like on a monday, because Mike is there and
Yeah,
Mike will say the same
yeah.
thing over and over again in the first Yeah. 15 minutes. And Right. I get a kick out of that.
I love Mike. I love Mike. Mike has added a lot to my life and I have a good relationship with him. We I tease him all the time. I try to help them as much as I can, not just with he's pretty good with his alcoholism, but he's got a lot of isms and and we have a relationship that I could talk to him about isms and give him some advice. And he makes me a young guy and I don't expect to be able to change him at this point in his life. But but he realizes some of those
things. And and he's a good guy. Mike's Mike's a really good he's fun to have around.
Mike is one of these guys that if you go to meetings, you might know he is the type of guy who because of his presence, that meeting exists or does a lot of little things that make the meeting happen. MM And if you were to ask somebody like Mike, do you think you're important to this meeting? No, I don't do enough. I don't do very much here. I just show up. Yeah. But this is the type of guy who's always ready to give out. Chips are always ready to
do. The preamble is the first one to move the chairs. Yeah. These are little things, but
App
having somebody at a meeting who's willing to do the little things is so important
absolutely. Not only that, but he'll step up all the time. So like, you know especially that Monday night meeting or even the Friday night meeting like that Monday night meeting if something happens and whoever is supposed to share it does to show up makes a go to go. Hey Mike, can you chair tonight? Sure. How Chair tonight? Like never, never says no. Never ever does. No. Always so sure I can chair tonight. And a lot of people don't like to do that. And a lot of people try to back
off on that stuff. He doesn't. And he you're right. He does a lot of little things and they're not they're not big things. Michael Parr will never be a treasurer of a group or a secretary of a group,
that
but he's going to do a lot of little things to help keep that meeting going for sure. And we need those people. And I appreciate those people.
I would make the case that the person who is willing to come early and set up the chairs every week is more important than a Treasurer Yeah, could. Treasurers just collecting the money and paying the bills. And Yeah, it's sort of there's a flurry of activity that you need to do and then you're done. right. But if I, I put the cash in my drawer and I don't run the books this week or next week, that's fine. If you don't have somebody who's going to move the chairs, that's a problem.
Yeah.
If
No.
nobody wants to read the preamble, that's a problem It doesn't make for a lively meeting. Yeah, And I know the thing that's been frustrating you, and it can frustrate me too, because it feels like failing is this Monday night meeting had started from 40 people yeah, and there were like eight people this week. right, It is really it's not as many people. It's it's not I was going to say it's filled out, but it hasn't filled out. It's done the opposite of the filling out
Yeah. And that can be frustrating. And we talked about the you and I talked about this when we're talking about topics for this podcast at all. And again, it was a newer guy at that meeting who shared something that I needed to hear that night. I have a, I have a friend Jim and Jim used to always share. I haven't seen Jim. He lives down the coast of Connecticut and our meetings are a solid hour away from him now. You know, it's not a big state, but where we are from where he
lives is about an hour. And he used to work up this way. So used to come to meetings. And I haven't seen him in a while. And I'm expecting that as time goes on, I'll see him less and less. But Jim used to say, you know, I go to three or four meetings a week because I never know which one. I'm going to hear what I need to hear for that week. And I always took that. And to, you know, Tucker took that to heart.
Like, I don't know, you know, what meetings or what person is going to say something that I need to hear. And this newcomer for us, newcomer, that newcomer to the program, but new to our Monday meeting, has been sharing stuff that's been hitting right where I need to have it hit. And I was feeling down, looking around at the meeting thinking, look at this man. There's what, ten of us here? The 12 of us
here. I mean, remember when those meeting was four solid 40 people and and then he told that story about him and the other guy just shown up and just the two of them, you know, and the other guy, another Mike said, Hey, do we still have a meeting? And he said, Yeah,
and.
yeah, we have a meeting. And they had a meeting and they both said they liked it, but we have to have those meetings even when they're small. And part of that is service, right? I look back at it, when I came into this program, people were there to help me out and I feel like I have to give back to them. And I, I need to make sure that I'm available to give back. And if that means I need to show up, Listen, I do two regular meetings. I go to more than two typically. Depends how I'm doing
it, Joe and Charlie. And I'm doing this and I count both of those as program stuff. So that's four times a week. But I go to two solid meetings that I'm really involved in and I and I add some other meetings as I go along. But I go to those meetings because because I need to be able to hear some of these things from some of these other people. And I need to be there to to hear a message, because if I'm not there, then I can't hear that message. And plain and simple,
Right.
you know.
Right. So the other thing that it's important to go to meetings when you have sobriety, if 12 steps are the things you do, who's going to guide the newcomer if Right, they don't run into people with good sobriety and good sobriety does not equal number of years. I know some people who have many decades who I would not want to live in their footsteps. And I know people with six months that Right. I'm astounded like this person I has agree.
got it better than me and I need to learn from that person. With six months, Yeah, you need to have meetings where people really walk the walk so that when that new person comes in, they have somebody. The role model after the newcomer helps us, we help the newcomer. right. And that's why because if we don't if we stop going to meetings, who's going to teach that person.
100%. And we could all say, oh, let somebody else teach that person. Or you get to somebody like me who's a little bit older and you go, Well, guys don't want older, you know, sponsors. They want younger guys to sponsor. And some of that is true, but it's not completely true because I've had people in the last three or four years asked me to sponsor them some have been my age and some have been much younger than me. So, you know, we need to be
available to that. And it's not only about sponsoring, it's, you know, because, you know, we last night we did working with others. And I said when I shared that a lot of people take this as sponsorship, but working with others is so much more than that. It's one of the things that attracted me to my Friday night meeting that I fell in love with the guys who there was. I saw guys who had decades of sobriety, you know, 15 years or maybe 20 years or
whatever it might be. And I saw that they struggled At. with some of the same things I struggled with. And it gave me hope that things may not be perfect, but, like I could still struggle with stuff because early on I was like, I just thought my life would get be perfect. I really did. I thought I would cut out.
Me to
I thought I would cut out drinking and that everything else would take care of itself. And I have had I would have this really, really good life and I have a good life, but it's a human life. So it has its ups and downs and I have to deal with people in work and all those other things. So by going to meetings, I was able to see that other people would be able to go to those things. Same things struggle with those things, but not have to drink over them, you
write?
know, And and I was able to identify with that and go, okay, so I can do this too. If they can put together 15 or 20 years and still struggle with certain aspects of life, I can do that too. It gave me hope that I can keep keep my sobriety even in tough times.
I know of a guy who's probably got 40 years now and he talks all the time, you know, first five years sobriety. My mother died, my father died, I lost my job. I lost my house. Last five years of sobriety. My my son killed himself. My my daughter killed herself. I had a motorcycle accident and I didn't have to drink over it. Right? And it's important to hear something like that over and over again. That look at what this guy has gone through. Mm hmm.
This is hell. He didn't drink over it and kept going to meetings because that's the key, is you're not going to have perfection. You're going to have bad times. Last week or so, I've been exhausted because of stuff at home, some at work, and when I'm exhausted, I am emotionally a mess. But I am aware that now it's okay. Okay, I'm tired. I'm Right. going to be a little emotionally messy. I'm not going to be perfect. That's okay. What do I need to I need to get some rest and I have a place to go
and I have tools. That's the key. You keep going to meetings because you need to sharpen the saw Yeah, so that it is easy. So that it is a case of. I go to meetings just because it's something fun to do. That's a real misconception for new people. I had it. It's homeless men with trench coats in a cement floored basement, right, one incandescent light bulb. right. And the good meetings are a lot of fun, especially Yeah. before and after. There are there are great characters.
And the age thing I don't think is a big deal because
Know,
the age thing cuts through because you have a problem and this other person had a problem. It's easy to relate a 23 year old with a 73 year old
yeah, I, I agree. It's one of the it's one of the few places that that's really, really true that I do think that age melts away in in good meetings and good meetings and that because we all have this common bond, which is the problem with alcohol or drugs for some of us. But because we have this common bond that the age stuff does melt away and we can really, really relate to everybody in those rooms. And it
is fun. One of the, you know, the Friday night guys, there's a bunch of them, probably like a half a dozen of them. So they go out to dinner almost every Friday night, right? They go out to dinner and it's just a way to do it. So you go out to dinner. You know, not everybody shows up every week, but three or four or five of you go out for dinner, you spend an hour having dinner. You go you spend an hour and a half and, you know, some of the guys go out for ice cream afterwards. It's it's a whole
social thing. And on top of it, you're getting like you said, you're getting your tools sharpened so that you can you can use them. You know, you can use them when you need them.
and you're building connections with people so that if something goes wrong, you have somebody very comfortable, multiple people you can talk to very comfortably Right? about your problem so you don't have to drink. And the more you build those relationships and those emotional deposits over time, the better off you're going to be. Are you? That you're going to be you're not going to be in an awkward situation.
Yeah, because so much easier to talk to somebody. Somebody shared about it on one of the meetings that it's so much easier to talk to somebody who sort of is already in the loop. You know, if you talk to people regularly, they sort of know what's going on. So you don't have to fill in. The whole backstories is the way they
designed set it right. So if you have these relationships with people and they know like, like, you know, like you have shared like your wife is traveling more, so there's going to be time, right? So, you know, if you if you call up me or John or some of the other guys who who know the story, like, well, no. Well, now that that's going on. Well, now that you're stressed out, we can have that conversation with you. Those are the type of things that we find out with
other alcoholics. And that able would help a little bit easier than you typically would.
Yeah, I think Instagram is helpful for that, too, that that's contact with another alcoholic, even if it's virtual Yeah. and if I see something I like, I try and leave a comment that is encouraging because again, I'm encouraging somebody else. Mm hmm. I'm making contact. It's a little thing that I can do. It's with a stranger, but it's a little thing. It's another tool
that's out there, a podcast. I can sit there and listen to other people talk about their issue or their topic, and if it's really good, I feel like I'm involved. Yeah. These are all great things and this is why you keep doing it. I saw a clip from I Don't Remember the name of the show was Allison Janney was on it where they were alcoholics, and it was a clip where she gets up from the couch and I guess the boyfriend said, Where are you going? She goes, I'm going to a meeting you went last night.
You're going again? She goes, Yes, I woke up an alcoholic. Yeah. Okay.
I'd say I woke up an alcoholic. I wake up every day and alcoholic. Yeah, I've heard people say that, too. Of every day I wake up, I'm an alcoholic and I need to do something for my alcoholism.
Now, I felt bad hearing that because I'm like, I'm not going everyday like her. Right, But then again, that's a TV show. right. It's not real.
Right. But there are people who go every day. Yeah. And if you can and there was a time when I first came back to this after I relapsed, um, I went to meetings a lot. I went to five meetings week easily either sometimes some some weeks, some weeks I went to a meeting every every night because I just needed to. My life was in shambles and I was trying to hold everything together. And what I found was that I needed
to spend time in meetings. So I understand that, that every day I needed to go out to a meeting. I don't need that today. But I do know I do know that, you know, I get stressed out that the best place for me to be is meetings. So you know that that's something I can always do is why I want to feel better, is go to a meeting. Because no matter, no matter what it is, I always feel better after meeting.
If you're not a meeting person, that's okay, too.
I agree.
There are plenty of ways where you can be in contact. I know Jill Teets has a patriot program where she basically has meetings every week, Recovery elevator has basically meetings for a fee. There are ways that you can be in contact with other alcoholics or people with alcohol use disorder, where you can get that 12 step work without getting that 12 step work. I'd love to know what your process of spreading the message is or meeting with somebody else so that you stay free of alcohol.
You can reach us at Instagram, at Sober Friends Pod or email Matt at Sober Friends podcast or the website Sober Friends Pod dot com. Steve Thanks for making it a great show tonight.
Hey, Matt, thanks for having me. And we'll catch it. We'll do it again next week.
We will do it again next week and that's when we'll see you next week. Hi everybody.