there's nothing tougher than going into court and facing the peers that you've worked with for your entire life. You want to talk about, you know, shame. My name was plastered all over the papers, for everything that I did. When you talk about the fourth step in the 12 steps of recovery force step was very easy for me. You know why it was all over the front page of the paper?
The Sober Friends podcast is brought to you by Matt W who bought us one coffee. Buy me a coffee icon slash sober friends pod and Pete B who bought us three coffees. Buy me a coffee Rt.com slash sober Friends pod if this podcast is important to you. If you get value out of it, if you feel it's important for the new guy or gal to get the message that recovery is possible, consider giving us a donation to keep us podcasting. Buy me a coffee dot com slash
sober friends pod. Thank you to Matt and Pete. Life in recovery requires you to be flexible. So Steve is out having a steak dinner at an awesome restaurant around here because it's his 20th wedding anniversary, and John is at a wake for one of his employees. So you got me alone. But not just alone. You got Joe Kelly with me. Joe Kelly is a former police officer and man, does he have one hell of a story to tell us, Joe Kelly. Welcome to the Sober Friends podcast.
Imad, Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, I'm excited to have you. I read an article about you and the Cape Cod Times, and man, you have a V-shaped recovery here of a very, very low bottom and a very high peak. I will tell you, man, I've started weightlifting this year and you've been jacked, man. That's something I can identify with and a place I want to be. My son and I lift weights four times a week and I'm like, any time I see somebody who's jacked, I'm like, That's it. That's where I want to be.
You know what? Any time I see anybody in the gym, that's
Mm
what
hmm.
I say.
Now?
Because if you're not doing it yet, you mean if you're at the gym, you're doing more than most, So. So
Yeah.
do you guys.
Yeah. That's what I tell my son. He's like a gym addict. That's what I tell him. It's like we're 40 minutes, and he's like, I don't know if I can do any more, but I don't think we've done enough. I'm like, Dude, we can stop.
if your son's like mine, he's my accountability coach.
He
He's.
is.
Yeah, he's 14 years old and
So
he got
is mine.
he got. He's got the bug in him. Right.
Yeah,
Those days that I don't feel like going, he's like dad, but I'm going to miss my game. It's
this kid says the same damn things. So not he walks around in a compression shirt and all in just takes it off and walks into the living room, just starts flexing. all It's assignments. like, I get it.
Yeah, So you're just like me. I did, like, remove mirrors from my house
Yeah.
as he can't go by a mirror today without flexing because he's seen a couple of gains. But you know what?
Yeah.
God bless us. They could be doing a lot worse, right
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's the kid. The kid has got no fat on him. He's an athlete.
now.
He's my inspiration. I was. I was a chubby little bastard at his age, so Oh. I love it,
That's amazing. I love it.
but I always pick up on that. So, yeah, Tell us your story. I went through your story and Yeah. you have pain pills in your story. I have a little bit about pain pills, and Oh, I just think these pain pills are man the scourge and they can get your roots in you, But you yeah. tell your story. Let us know a little bit about you. How did you get here?
I'll tell you, first of all, you mean like like most of us, or at least for me, I speak for me. You mean my my whole dilemma wasn't just about substances. You mean it was about the reason why is why I was using those substances in the first place. Yeah. I mean,
Me
for
too.
me. Yeah, for me as a police officer, I got on the force very early. Ex, former college football and baseball and high school star. You know, road was pain for me most of my life. I fortunately had athletic ability, you know, it kept me out of trouble most of my life, you know, And I loved it. It's all I knew. And when I when I got out of it, when I was in college, I party like a rock star like everyone else does in college. But it was never a
problem. I mean, it was never got in the way of things that were important to me. When I got out, I, I was a DSE social worker for about six months prior to get into the police academy. And
What is that? A TSA social worker.
so now I think they call it DCF. So it's a department of ah, back in the day it was Department of Social Services. So I
Okay.
work with adolescents, with truancy and home environment stuff that I eventually fell on to myself.
Yeah.
I worked in that I worked in that area, you know, helping hand helping adolescents.
And.
And I got on to the police force and prior to going to the academy, I had to have surgery for all the wear and tear from playing football on the turf all the years
Oh, yeah,
and so I had surgery. And I'll tell you what, looking back on things, even when they game when I went to surgery back then, it was like probably 1999, 2000, they gave me a bottle of Percocet, you know, and they said, Hey, fix it. Take this when you're not feeling well. Well, like, like anyone else that I knew that back then. I mix it with a couple of beers. I think I watched back in the day was Band of Brothers.
Yeah.
I remember half of it when I was sitting there, you know, drinking. When the bottle was gone, I was done, the Percocet were done, I was done, went back to work. They said to me that I probably have to have it in seven or eight years later. And they were right seven or eight years later. But here's
the turning point. You know, seven or eight years later, living my uniform, trying to support my family, being from Massachusetts, where it's drilled in you blue collar benefits, support your family, a man, this is what he does on top of being, you know, the football star and all the eagle shit that comes with that
You
is,
got to be Alpha.
yeah, it's better. As well as being a police officer with a train, you two, you give the help. You don't ask for the help right? So at that time, before I had surgery, I had a lot of things that were going on in my life. My my marriage was like shit, because I spent most of my time in my uniform. The shift work, working midnights or working days. You mean I've always been a great care care giver, Like I worked midnights, took care of my kids
during the day. I was extremely tired and all that stuff, but they put me on a high dose of Percocet. And the difference between 1999 or 2000 in 2008 or 2009 was, you know, I had seen a lot of things on the job. You mean before they gave me that medication? They they didn't understand what I was going through. Yeah, they gave me pain pills for the injury, but I also was hiding a lot of stuff that was going on with me internally.
I wasn't happy in my marriage. I had seen a lot of stuff, you know, fatalities with children, you know, crib deaths, you name it. A lot of stuff that normal people don't see on a daily basis.
When I read the article about you that stood out because they don't think about that with a police officer Well, that that's the reality. That every day you walk in seeing life's horrors that other people never see. And that's your that could be your reality. And the psychological toll that takes unless you're all sociopath, right. if you're if you're a caring human being, that's got to take it's all
Exactly. You know, so me going through that and then they gave me this ball a prescription for pain. Now, first of all, I've never been the type of person to sit on the couch and just take something and like sit there and veg and watch TV. I've always been very active. So I took these pain pills more and more to go back to work faster. But subconscious systole, you mean it also blocked out all that internal stuff that was going on within
me? Did I mean, it blocked out the fact that my marriage was going to shit. It blocked out the feelings I had about the stuff that I saw on a daily basis. You mean it blocked out anything negative to kind of numb me to all that? And, you know, when I wasn't on something, that stuff came back tenfold. Worse than it ever was before. I was put on medication. And back then in 2008, they didn't give me a bottle of pills and say, Hey, be careful of this stuff.
It's addictive. And I'll be honest, all the stuff that I know today, I didn't know back then, I really didn't. I was a law enforcement official. Ha. Big ego all over the place. Like I just knew, Hey, I take this. It makes me feel good. That's what I do. But when I took this stuff, it made me almost superhuman. I mean, it made me feel whole again. And when I didn't.
I can really.
Yeah, when I didn't have it, it was ten times worse. And it got out. It spiraled out of control, you know, over over a year span. Like, I'm 47 years old now. My whole criminal record, which we'll get into because there comes some criminal offenses. You mean is a one year thing you mean. And yeah, I did a lot of a lot of stuff while under the influence but I also don't feel like it should be a life sentence, you
Now,
know
I agree.
You know, one year, one year out of my life was very terrible, you know, with a lot of bad decisions that I took responsibility for. But also, there's a lot of things that led up to that. You mean.
If And we define it's you by that lowest moment, there's no opportunity for redemption. that's And all. if and if you know that that's the case, why try to improve your life? Why try and do something better for humanity and for somebody else? I'm a big believer in that.
Exactly. So you mean long, long story short. You mean I took these pain pills, it got out of control. And, you know, they were given me anything that I wanted because of who I was, because of my status in the community. So when that first bottle was gone, I'd go back to the doctor and say, Hey, I'm out there, give me more, you know, in your tolerance builds up. And I'd say to the doctor, Hey, I'm still in pain. And they'd give me a stronger prescription, you
know? And fast forward, sooner or later, the doctor stopped giving me some. So I went to another doctor and he gave me some. When the doctor shopping stopped, you know, back then, it's not. Not like today, but they ended up red flagging my insurance, you know, so I couldn't get any more of what I needed to be whole. So that's when a lot of the the dishonesty started showing up within my
marriage. That's a lot of the the shame and the guilt started to set in because then I had to do things that typically I would not do. You know, that that I I'd always say that I would never cross this line. And then I ended up stepping over that line, You mean. And fortunately, my story is, as you'll read in my book, I don't think that if I wasn't stopped, that anything was out
of the possibility. You know, I remember in my book there's a story in the book where I had followed a guy one time and let me backtrack. So before things before I got into the criminal activity of getting what I needed, the chief sat me down one day and he said, Hey, Joe, if you have an issue with something, we'll get you some help. And for me, when I got sat down in, the chief was my best friend at the time he had transferred from New Hampshire.
We had known each other on a personal level, but I didn't hear my friend saying that. I heard the chief of police setting me down, saying that in the fear that came out of me, of everything that I have worked to up to that moment, I was going to lose if I came forward because it wasn't hey, let me say say something and get some help. I thought I heard, Hey, tell me everything you know so I can fire me. That's what I heard.
Yeah, that's addict. That's What it that's stood out to me in the article. And I looked at that. That's addict behavior of that paranoia. was. And do you think maybe part of that was if I raise my hand not only and get fired, but you're going to take these away from me, Yes. how am I going to live without this? What? How am I going to be a good cop unless I have the tools? And the tools are pain pills?
Yeah. And the problem is, too, is there's a lot of different things that go into that. All right? So if I go get help, you know, now my stuff's out there now. A promotion. I ever go for a go? Go for in the future? That shot I'm stuck in a patrol level or the K-9 level for the rest of my life.
Mm hmm.
So many things. And then I'm like, if I come forward, my wife's going to learn about this. She's going to learn about all the dishonesty that I've had up to that point. You mean because the dishonesty started when when I got red flagged on the insurance, I had to start going to people I knew that I want to get in trouble with. And I was like, Oh, people. I played sports with in high school that I could like, get stuff off, get
stuff off of. And then eventually they were like, Oh, well, if you give me ten bucks, you can have one of these. Well, that stuff got pricey. And my wife would be like, Well, where's where's the money going? And I would say to her things like, Oh, I need a new bulletproof vest, I need a new boots, I need a new gun holster. I needed this, I needed that. And in like a month later, man, I'd be still walking around the actual same shit. You mean
believing my own shit? You know, I mean, and, you know, that came to an end. I remember specifically one time I put it in my book and probably mentioned in the article something where my wife had taken my bank bank card away from me and said, I don't know what's going on, but you can't carry this on you. I'm like, I
am not a problem here. And I remember driving my cruiser into the driveway with the lights off, the dog being quiet in the back, sneaking into the house in full uniform, crawling across the floor with my radio off, grabbing my ATM card out of her purse, doing the same thing to exit the house, going to take money out, returning back that same whole process to put the card back. And then her saying like four days later, did you take money out? And I'm like,
how would I do that? I don't have an ATM card.
He imagine the skill that that takes. So when when people say addicts or alcoholics are lazy, we're my wife and I are going through like, the back catalog of NCIS. And I'm just thinking, imagine the skill if you were to apply those behaviors to catching a criminal or getting evidence or saving somebody. Those are some massive skills of getting in, getting out, being quiet, and you're pushing that towards the drugs. And
Yeah,
I got to imagine a lot of this is they are so important to me in continuing to function and be alive and do the things just to survive that. Yeah, I could see that that's what opens the door to these bad behaviors.
it was it was absolutely me looking back, being in that state of mind, I can put myself in that state of mind from back then and and I and I did that when I wrote my book because I wanted to tell off from that perspective. But looking back, you know, on, on what I was going through and I had as I understand it, I always say that, you know, addicts and alcoholics are the most creative
Oh yeah.
and most they could probably be the most successful people I've ever met in my entire life.
Takes strategy to get your drugs and alcohol.
Absolutely. And there's a lot of different things that we do in order to get what we need. And it's it's hurtful because a lot of the times that I thought what I was doing, you know, the guilt and the shame, I didn't think that I was hurting anybody else but me. And part of my story leads to the fact that, you know, the guilt or the shame was so overriding. You mean. And I never I never could see past
that. I never. You mean I, I went through a period where I would I was putting my gun in my mouth because I was so guilt ridden and I was so embarrassed about where my life had gone. But I didn't have the can always to pull the trigger. And as we went further, you know, after the chief had sat me down, how what came crashing down was they polygraphed somebody who was saw me getting something somewhere that was trying to get out of
trouble themselves. And, you know, they ended up put me on administrative leave and I ended up resigning. And when I resigned, that was that was like the real turning point of everything, because now my identity of who I was was totally gone. You know, I surrounded myself with law enforcement officials. Everyone kind of knew something was going on. So everyone, whether they knew it or not, just distanced themselves away from me because they didn't want to be a part of
it. I no one to talk to my wife had left me. She had emptied the bank accounts, which probably rightfully so because I
Oh
was
yeah.
taking stuff out. But I like I remember going to McDonald's now and not that I eat that today, but
Yeah.
I went to McDonald's to get like a cheeseburger. My card got denied and I walked into the bank and they said, Oh, the account has been emptied. So not only did I lose it, and then she took the kids and left with all that guilt, with all that shame. Prior to any of that happening, on top of losing my job, losing my wife, losing my kids, I lost the desire to live.
And instead of me picking myself up and doing something about it and remembering who I was, that athlete, that person was captain of this cabin, of that the leader. For the first time in my life, I had no spark in me. And to be honest with you, the next probably eight months of my life were the worst eight months that I've ever lived in my entire life. And the problem was, is I never thought that I was going to see another day to pay the consequences.
Well, that's a dangerous place, because then there are no consequences. Exactly There's no limit to what I can do right. for not going to see tomorrow.
Right.
Problem
And I
is, you end up seeing tomorrow and next month and next year.
and how and today I look back at, you know, the life I have and we'll get to that eventually. But I look back and I go, Oh, my God, Like every day I prayed not to wake up so I didn't have to do everything again because every day was about getting what I needed, getting more, making sure I had something for tomorrow. That was my entire life and at any means necessary because I could not function as a human being
without it. That guilt, that shame, all that depression and everything else would hit me with such a force that I can't even fully explain it.
I hope if you're brand new, you can identify with the stuff that Joe Kelly's talking about. Because if you're look at Joe right now, he has a neck. I'm jealous about probably about the size of my waist. The guy is in fit condition
But
cop in the community. So pillar of the community, father, husband. These are all the things of the American dream that you look at and say, well, how could life not be better? And it wasn't. And it went all the way. And this is where it leads to. You don't have to be poor or on the street. It can happen to everybody.
yeah, everyone. You mean you need them as a police officer in the high level of you as a police officer who were who ended up going to prison? You mean for. I got sentenced to two and a half years.
That's an extra tough thing. Yeah. Police in prison, that can be a very dangerous thing.
Yeah. And when I was telling you about my mental state of mind back then, they actually tried to pick me because of who I was. And I signed out telling you that's where my mental compassion capacity was. I did not want to live. I was scared to die, but I didn't want to live. So I was like, in the middle of limbo, you know? And I got through. I got through prison. I surround myself with the best people that
I could. But I'll tell you what, that judge I went into Superior Court, you know, and there's nothing tougher than going into court and facing the peers that you've worked with for your entire life. You want to talk about, you know, shame. My name was plastered all over the papers, you know, for everything that I did. When you talk about the fourth step in the 12 steps of recovery force step was very easy for me. You know why it was all over the front page of the paper?
You've already done it. Well, Somebody I. wrote it for you.
Was already there. And to be honest, there were things there that I didn't do, you know? But that is what it is. I mean, I put myself in that position and you want to say prison? I'll tell you what. What prison? I know it doesn't do it for a lot of people, but prison gave me the time I was unwilling to give myself because prior to going to prison, I'd go into detox, I'd go into facilities, I'd spend dry like the best of
them. I had things to do when in at the end it was more I'd get more vulnerable, more vulnerable each time I went in probably 12 times in total. You mean every time that I went in there and the first time I ever went in was probably the biggest mistake. My wife left me and all that
stuff we went through. I grabbed the prettiest blonde that I could find in there, and she was she for the first time in my life, somebody got me, somebody understood my pain, you know, And probably for me it was I knew for me, I just needed somebody to understand me and love me, or at least think they loved me because of all the
losses that I had gone. And probably for her was more, you know, monetary because I had, you know, certain stuff, credit and all that, that eventually went away on that big run that I went into that led me to prison. But I get it. You know, I sit back, I got I went to prison and I sat in there and I did a lot of work on myself. And probably the clarity part for me in there, you know, was being away from my kids. I'd have five and three year old who are now 18 and 16,
you know, but five and three. I was around my kids my entire life. I was the caregiver
Yeah,
and nothing hurt me more than being away from them, you know? I mean, nothing. And to be honest, nothing motivated me more, you know, to redeem myself from the situation that I came from, regardless of how they how they would have thought or as they got older or whatever else, that was my motivating fuel, you know, I mean, for for better of myself, because the switch was, as I started saying,
instead of Why me? Because the first month in prison, I had a hit list of everyone that I was going to get and I was out for because I blamed them for this. I blamed him for that. And then I started taking responsibility for my actions and started owning, you know, what I had done and what and where it was at and kind of woke up in a jail cell going in, excuse my language. How the fuck did I get here?
right. You
I mean, how did I get here? You know, being a college graduate, you know, scholarship for football, scholarship for baseball, this, that like, like having all these things. And when I got out of prison, that was probably the hardest point in my life, because now, like we had talked earlier, get out of prison. Life's not success. No, life's not set up for success. Now, I'm a nonviolent, convicted felon. I
know,
can't go back to anything that I did. I can't use my degree for almost anything
and a lot of people a lot of people see that felon, regardless of what it is.
yeah,
Red flag.
a red flag right away, it's going to it's not even going to open up. It's going to close so many doors before you start. But I had said to myself, like I had said to us, and I started thinking to myself, you know, stop saying why me? And I started saying, why not me? That was the trigger. That was that like, true. I'm very corny and I love quotes. I love that one individual quote. I say it
every time I possibly can. If somebody took the same situation that you're complaining about and they won with it, that is so motivating. Inspiring to me because it's like and I always screw this part up to Matt. What does that old saying like, was it the six minute mile like years and years ago or whatever it was
Mm
they
hmm.
going to be broken
Right.
and somebody broke it and then four more people broke it? You I mean,
Mm hmm.
and what I kind of stand on, there's a lot to my story from what happened to me to where I am now. And I'll tell you where I'm I'm at now. Over the past three years, I built two multimillion dollar companies as
Wow.
a convicted felon. I remarried eight years ago. I have three other children. I have five total. I love my life today. I help out a tremendous amount of people. I worked in the substance abuse world in terms of getting people connected to safe places, because not all places out there are good fit for everyone, regardless of what they tell you.
I agree.
I'm also the union liaison for CWA, American Airlines, over 80,000 members. I do all their trainings, all their substance abuse, all their mental health issues. My wife owns obtaining mastery and OAM Center for Wellness. We help people from high executive CEOs that are working on mind, body and soul from cryotherapy, infrared sauna, cryo slimming NLP, which I'll get into more, which changed my life. I'm a trainer in NLP, I'm a trainer and hypnosis I'm a trainer. Time
techniques. I've done a lot of work over my over the years and the reason why I've done work on myself is because I needed to change. When I moved to Florida in 2012 and part of my book will say how we're going to end up. I had I had hit rock bottom. You mean everything that I had done up to that point had worked for me until it didn't. I used to be very emotional guy e over. I used to call on emotional over intellect,
Mm
heart
hmm.
sleeve. You can ask any of my old teammates or anything else, very emotionally driven, this and that. And it worked for a long time until it didn't. I had to be more I over intellect, over emotion. I couldn't let my emotions dictate my behavior no longer because there's a lot of things that came up with that when I moved to Florida. You mean I did the 12 steps like most of us do within the AA and AA community.
And I did them and we had talked prior to getting on this how I think that's a that's a whole thing for anybody.
Oh, I totally agree. We have an advantage.
You mean it's an accountability tool? You mean to live a better life? It doesn't have to be about AA or any or any of that. It's accountability tool. And I did that and I wrote like seven books of stuff that I had never told anyone because I needed to get it out there. But what changed my life wasn't so much that it was a good foundation. It was when I first met my wife and I wanted to get closer to our first girl I ever dated in Florida, and I ended up
marrying her. Right. And she was into meditation, she was into Reiki, she was into A Course in Miracles. She was a lot into a lot of mindset stuff that if you're brought that stuff out to me ten years ago, with my ego being the athlete and, you know, emergency response team and police officer, I would be like, Yeah, I'm all set
Yeah, that's contempt. Prior to investigation.
right. And you know, God sometimes does for us what we can't do for ourselves. And he knew how I probably worked on the inside and he put this beautiful woman in front of me. And at first it was I did it because I wanted to become close to her. But when I did it, I got hooked and it changed my entire landscape for the rest of my life. And I not only got into those different modalities, I became a trainer in those modalities and a lot of mindset
type of work. You mean that helps people get from where they are to where they want to be? And you don't have it's not an individual therapy where my wife wrote a book called Get Off the Couch because
Mm hmm.
she doesn't believe that somebody should
Yeah.
be in therapy for months on end. If you're in therapy for months on end, you better go talk to your therapist because there's an issue there. You're not resolving the problem. You
Bright.
mean therapy? There's different techniques I can do with anybody within 60 seconds. Gets rid of stuff that we've been holding on for years.
Mm hmm. So, what does an LP. I'm not familiar with that.
So it's called neuro linguistic programming. So that's a fancy word for the roadmap to the mind. You know, So basically it's getting rid of limited beliefs, it's anchoring in feelings or getting rid of stuff that no longer serves us. There's a lot of there's so much that goes into it that I don't think we'd have time for all of
it. But some of my favorite parts of it, it's just the mindset stuff a bit changing, looking at, you know, what our values are, you know, who we are as a person, who we want to be in five years. Because if you think about it, if you talk about let's just talk about kids, because kids are the same as adults, we're just bigger human beings, right?
Right,
We've been through some through some things in our lives. But like school, it's just like like I said, with you in AA and then it's not black and white schools, not black and white. We all have different learning styles, you know. So part of NLP is being able to identify what somebody's learning style is. You could be very auditory, you could be very visual, you could be very kinesthetic. Within 5 minutes due to my training, I'm going to
absorb that. So let's just take something out of the thick, our car Salesman Right,
Right.
Because I work with some car salesmen. So in terms of improving their bottom line and how to sell and what to look for and how to treat customers and how to interact, communication skills is what it is. So if I see that you're very auditory, I'm going to speak your language in auditory terms, you know, so very basic and simple. If you're looking at this car, I'm going to get in the car and I'm going to turn on the engine. I'm like, You hear
that engine? You mean certain stuff that seems so minor you can change the whole face of a sale regardless of what you're selling. If somebody is very visual, you mean, say you find out that, hey, their favorite color is red, you mean. Well, what if I had that in red today? Do you mean? And those are just simple, subtle stuff that goes along different, but it's proven
I live in the sales world, so everything that you're telling me speaks to me,
right.
and it's a high level. I've done some of this stuff. It was named other things, but high level, this is get the customer to picture themselves, enjoying the product, not just using it, but picture themselves of using this product is going to make them feel happy.
Right,
So there's multiple parts. If I'm if I'm visual, I see that red car. I'm picturing myself there from auditory hearing the car. Rev, I'm thinking about, Wow, I'm going to use this car.
Right.
Yeah.
And it just speaking to you, I mean, you can just sit there and listen to somebody, you know, match and mirroring somebody. You mean in terms of how they are?
Yeah. So that's that's a lot of the key. Less talking and more listening. yeah. And it's something You take. I, I work with my team on. There's a lot of tall stuff. Stuff I work on my team, but that's one of them asking questions, being vulnerable. A lot of the stuff that you're talking about is, I think, ahead of the game and where a lot of companies are. The company I work for, we're doing a lot of stuff when it comes to diversity Yeah, for fancy words that we use is the growth mindset.
Growth right, mindset just necessarily means somebody winning doesn't put you at a loss right, that we both there's a big enough pie that we grow the pie and we can take we we both can win from that, right. that there can be multiple winners. The emotional my emotional, not emotional intelligence. There's that too. But there's something else that we're doing and it escapes me. But it's about being vulnerable.
Psychological Yeah. safety, that's the term that we're using and when teaching I tell you. people.
Yeah, I'll tell you this. One of the biggest things ever and I talk about it a lot, regardless of what I'm teaching or I'm speaking with or I'm helping or I'm around, is here's a big term for me. NLP is there is no failure, there is only feedback.
Yes,
And
I agree.
it's such a strong a strong statement because just like me or anybody's life, you know, for me, I'm still breathing, I'm still alive regardless of what I went through. And then I'm sure there's a lot of other people, a lot of other people out there that have gone through much more than I have. Right. But if you're still breathing in, you're still alive, right? You haven't failed. Take what you have learned in a play. It you mean I say that all the time.
It's like I've taken every stone that somebody is throwing at me. And believe me, there's been a lot of stones because of my juicy story and what people want to feed in to, say, make up or even stuff. That was true, right? But take every stone that's thrown at you and use it to stand on. Use it to stand on, because I'm very like, I'm very motivational. I love anything that inspires me. I love quotes
because for me it inspires me. I post on Facebook, I post on Instagram, not for anybody else for me, if somebody can take it and use it more than happy to. I work with my clients and I talk to them. I'm that type of person that, you know, I've changed over the years. It's like, I'll listen to anyone's story once, right? You want to complain, you want to do this, you want to vent. I'll listen to anyone's wants after that. I don't want to hear. I want to start talking about the solution.
Yeah. I asked people a lot of questions around, What are you looking for me to help you with? Are Well, you just listening to me to listen know. or do you want a
This
solution here?
is a big question, Matt. As I ask a lot of clients, whether it's somebody that's struggling within dependents of something or if it's a high executive CEO or it has a multimillion dollar business that I'm working with, I go The one question that a lot of people have a problem answering, which I find it's and I did it once, too, is what makes you happy. A lot of people can tell you what doesn't make them happy, but they have a time nailing
down what makes them happy. And I work with a bunch of people. If you're not in alignment with who you are as a person, you're never going to be happy. Like I was working. I left the executive world a year ago making a ton of money because ingrain it. That's what I do support my family, make money. You know, do this, do that. But the problem was, is I wasn't in alignment with everything that was going on. You know, my values. I'm very I'm Catholic, right? I'm very spiritual. I
believe in God. I don't believe I'd be sitting here if God wasn't on my side. I don't know
Mm
how I would be sitting here.
hmm.
Oh, it's God. Family's very important to me. I have five children, you know, I want to be at every activity, every schooling event as much as I possibly can be, because I wasn't afforded that opportunity. My parents were divorced. My father was there sometimes. He wasn't. My mother was there. Sometimes I want to be there because I don't want to miss out on those things in life.
Now, those are important.
Yeah, I left an industry which I was very successful at, to join up with my wife and partner up with her so I could be more value because everyone's everyone's what's, what's it called. Everyone's what they think success is. Their definition of success is different minus freedom. It's freedom to be able to do what I want when I want them in.
I think that's a very enlightened view. And I will tell you, it would traps me and I think traps a lot of people. My view of success is maybe matching or exceeding those I see as more successful than me superficially. And I constantly have to keep myself in check
yes.
where I may not have the nicest house. I may not have as much money or the highest title, but for the most part we can support ourselves and I have the flexibility to go to all my kid's events and the support to do that.
Yeah, that's
That's
amazing.
pretty successful
Yeah. And it's always like I'm a big proponent of not staying stagnant. I'm always looking to grow. I'm always I always remain coachable. Yeah, man, I have a lot of people that I coach. That's the number one thing out there. You know, that people I've talked to, people in the past that you know, the one question, let me pick your brain now or pick my brain. People would rather out and pay
for a two door or not. You all are now it's like $9 Starbucks coffee, you know, four times a day, pack of cigarettes, this and that. But when it comes to their personal development or working with a coach or an individual, I don't have the money for that. You where are your priorities at
where you feel you don't. That's that's
Well,
an extra expense. It
right,
feels uncomfortable.
right,
That's only for those people who can afford it, but not somebody like me.
right, exactly. You know, but like like I said, like so I wrote the I wrote the book. It's called Badge Bars to Be On. And, you know, people have been asking me to write this book for a long time. And my wife twisted my arm to kind of do it. And the reason why that I didn't want to do it is because I still I had kids. So I was I was I didn't know. But then I sat back and I said to myself, you know what?
If I can be vulnerable about what I went through, maybe it will help someone out there who's dying silently, you know? And that that really screamed at me. And I'm always been the guy that's like it was sort of like the addiction, you know, I'm either not in it all or I'm full go. Once I made the decision to do it, I was full grown and I was very blessed. You know, I made best. Amazon's number one bestseller now, not just on the bestseller list, like number one.
That's pretty incredible.
Yeah, it was it was amazing. And, you know, a lot of speaking engagements from it. But I said to everyone, I didn't write the book for monetary reasons or anything like that. I wrote the book so it could help out any individual out there that could me maybe relate with my story in some way. You know? And I used to I used to go to meetings. I know a lot of people talk about this. If I if an older gentleman went up there in my younger days, I like shut him
down like this. Not that I can relate with this guy about I'm wrong, but I learned over the years, just like if I'm listening to a podcast or if I'm listening to somebody that maybe I can't gel with, there's always something that I can take away from anything and leave what I don't need. There's always something for me to learn, you know? I mean, and that's how we grow,
I think growth wise and this is hard for us to do as people. So I think people like you who are motivational, that you attract people because I'm a firm believer that we're negative by nature. So
right?
when you see somebody really motivational and upbeat, that attracts you because it's outside of the norm. And I think we only want to be reinforced with what, we believe, which is a lot of the problems that we have in society. If you have a growth mindset enough to listen to things you may not agree with but be open to, maybe there's a grain of truth
Hmm.
here. You can grow a little bit more and you can empathize with somebody more. I'm a big believer that empathy is And at a premium nowadays. Asshole is rewarded. oh, yeah.
Oh, I agree with you. And a lot of times, like, we always want to base our decisions on what people, especially in the recovery or the, or the or the using field is, is oh, why didn't use that or I didn't use this. Let me tell you a story. We've talked about me doing pills, right. That's that's out there in my book and you'll learning the more it started with I was I was the opiate addict. It started with pills. It had cocaine in it. It had snorting pills, it had shooting pills. It ended with
heroin in the end. This is a guy who's scared shitless of needles. Do you? I mean,
Mm hmm.
that's my story. As a police officer, college graduate that had everything, the perfect storm hit me. And then I take that whole situation. I go to prison. I'm a convicted felon. I get out. There was nobody assisting me with getting to where I am today. It's grit. It's doing the work. It's surrounding yourself with people that are going to pick you up. I used to say I might surround myself with people that used to like, talk me over the ledge. You see the way he looked at you?
Now I surround myself with people that are like, Joe, it's not worth it. You got way too much on the line.
Yeah.
You
So,
know.
you know, what's hard about that is What? sometimes I want to be walked over the ledge, Yeah, and it's hard to tell for people to tell me what I don't want to hear. I want you to buy into my bullshit. right, And when you don't, that's hard. But right. that's what I need.
Exactly. And that's and that's what you know, I came to the reality with years ago because, remember, I talked about being a lot of emotion over intellect. Right. I learned when I was in prison that I had to control that. I really did. You know, I'm a guy from, you know, Massachusetts, Northeast. We're a different breed. You mean you looked at me wrong? I wanted to twist your head off, you know, but I had to learn to control my emotions, you know, back when I didn't have anything.
You mean anything to lose? Very easy. But when you have stuff to lose, you mean I have kids now? You mean that's the one thing that can change my whole trajectory in. My wife had said to me a while ago, she's like, Remember, we got kids and how you respond to things. They're going to be looking at.
Absolutely. That.
For me, gets my attention really quick. Everybody's different. That may not be for somebody else. And I work with a lot of people. There's that misconception out there that if you ask most parents out there, I'll do anything for my kids, I'll do anything for them. But then I say to them, I go, Will you eat McDonald's three, three or four times a week? I go, You say you do anything for your kids. Why don't you eat healthier? So you're going to be around for
the rest of their life? Yeah, I mean, their whole look that they look at me is like, oh, you know, but it's it's it's hey, I you know, what I do is I work with people where they're at, you know, if they want to better their lives in a certain way, I meet them where they're at. I force nothing on anyone because I was that person.
Yeah.
I
You
was
got to bring people to wanting to do it. You can preach and preach and preach, but if you can't bring somebody to want to buy in on their own, they're never going to do it.
absolutely.
The best you can do is guide them. Right. Be a good example and guide them.
Absolutely. I told someone even today, and I say it all the time and I probably said 50 times a week, because I still help people get into, you know, good places around the country. That's not what I primarily do. But I like assisting people because people see my book. I do a lot of coaching, we do a lot of certifying, we do a lot of helping, but people know my story. So there they want to
know. And they knew. I worked in that industry and I said, Listen, at the end of the day, you can only help those that are willing to help themselves.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, I have a sister I lost two years ago. I had every option in the book. I tried and I tried and, you know, she was just like me, Fortunately enough, you know, some things happened in my life that took me away from everything. And that was God intervening. You know, to this day. I mean, I still talk to my mom, who, you know, lost her daughter. I mean, and it's her only daughter and she's taking care of her kid. And I say, you know, she's not in pain anymore.
You mean she's not going through going through stuff? I've lost so many friends over the years. It's sickening to me, you know, especially nowadays that it's different than back when I was into stuff. Everything's laced with fat and all.
Yeah. That's so Everything. dangerous.
Everything. Kids
Yeah,
that are just experimenting for the first time. You mean they're. We had dumb in Florida now? Yeah. I think you guys all saw it in the news where the the military academy. I think it was Army or West Point students who are or there was one guy that was trying cocaine for the first time. It was dosed with fentanyl overdose on the front lawn. The guy who wasn't doing anything went to go give him CPR and had to overdose from the contact of the phenol. It's absolutely it's absurd.
it
What's
terrifies me with my son. I've talked
what
about this all the time. It's not like when I was a kid that you get into trouble with the law or you're throwing up, or you. Something embarrassing happens one puff and you're dead with this fentanyl. Totally changes the game.
changes everything, because it's almost like that saying there's no relapse anymore. It's death,
Yeah.
you mean. And it's so scary that it blows my mind
Yeah. I struggle there, and it's out of my control. I look at my kids and I'm like, You could be an addict. And I see addict behavior and things,
right?
and it scares the hell out of me because I don't want them to have my life. Yeah.
And I. And I agree with you. You mean it. But for me, like I say, like even with with my children today, it's a I share openly with them. My 14 year old
Me
son.
too,
I share a 14 year old son. I my book, I wrote my book and I made it short enough for those people that were a lot like me, that aren't avid readers, that want to be intimidated by picking it up. But it's not just a book about addiction. It's about overcoming the odds. And I had said to you before, it's about the bankrupt professional. It's about anybody that's been publicly humiliated. It's about the reluctant
divorcee. It's a comeback story in a system with tangible tools to use to get out of whatever you're going through.
Joe. I would bring the bar down a little bit. When you said the public humiliation, this could just be I was by myself and I spilled coffee and I'm humiliated. These You are don't have to be the CEO who's lost everything to get value out of this stuff. It could be because I think about myself and alcoholism a lot of times, Well, I'm not that bad or I'm as bad as the guy bleeding from his ears. You not. don't have to get that bad.
You can. You can. There's something you just want to improve and get something of value out of your book.
Absolute. Absolutely. And like I said, it's a short read, so it's not overwhelming. And to be honest, I love what I do. You know, today, you know, the work that I do and the time that I take away from my family is so I hate being away from my family, but it's so rewarding. The people that I talk to today. It's it's almost like I was talking to somebody before I was was a nurse and she wanted to be in maternity. They all excited about maternity, working in
maternity. I go, but you understand there's bad that comes with that too, as a as a blessing, you see the best of the best and maternity. But as a curse, you see the worst of the worst.
That
I
would
mean,
be hard for me.
yeah, but it's just like, it's just like for, for some of us. You mean a lot of us have been living, you know, within this and know a lot of people. We've lost a lot of people and there's a lot of people out there like myself and know I'm a low percentage that have have so far. And I say I thank God for every day. I'm not above anyone. I've seen Titans fall, you know, So I'm not saying that, but I'm blessed for
where I am today. And and if I can be vocal about what I went through, you know, I travel the country, I speak to different academies, different police departments. I'm probably more welcome in my old department now than I was as a police officer. Jeremy
Now you're more trustworthy. Now you're off Right. the drugs.
Right. But I'm saying even prior to drugs. Matt
Yeah,
You mean even prior to drugs?
well, Joe, just hearing your story, the addict behavior was there. You were just looking for the solution in the drug Absolutely, to get rid of that problem. I'm a big believer in that. If the addiction happens before the drug, yes. that's the solution to that big gaping hole in your chest.
Right. And there it is, that big gaping hole that so many of us have.
Mm hmm. Yeah. You know? With recovery, have the tools that fill it.
Yeah,
So I don't need drugs.
you know, you know. So yeah, it's if if you want to hear more about, you know, what I do or anything else, you can go to obtaining Mastery Dotcom. That's me and my wife's website if you can find me on Facebook, you can find me on Instagram at Joe Kelly underscore obtaining mastery underscore You can inbox me my all my personal information out there. I get back to people as soon as I possibly can. I love help him
out. I love helping anyone. I'll share any part of my story that I possibly can if I understand that it's going to help somebody in someway.
If you missed any of that, I'm going to put all the links. You'll see all the links in the show notes, all the contact stuff to Joe, where you can buy his book, All the good stuff that I highly recommend, Joe. This has been great for me. There are a lot of nights where I do this podcast and I feel like I'm getting something more out than the audience and just the level of energy. I'm like, Damn, I got to pick it up a little
Oh,
bit. This is great.
yeah. No, I appreciate it, Matt. You know, we have a mutual friend,
Yeah,
so thank you to Darren as well. And like I said, I mean, even if there's something that I've, I've left untouched or something you want to ask, I'm an open book. Feel free to ask. If not, you mean anybody can out to me and ask me any question because I totally believe that being vulnerable, you know, is the being the odd, authentic self, which I believe brings a lot of change within this world.
100%, 100%. Vulnerability is really important. Joe Kelly, thanks for being on the show this week.
Thank you, Matt. I appreciate you.
Everybody, we will see you next week, everybody.