So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast - podcast cover

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.
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Episodes

Ep. 262: Escaping Iran

Recent protests in Iran have drawn renewed attention to dissent under the country's authoritarian government. The demonstrations have been met with mass arrests, internet restrictions, and even accusations of murder. While large-scale demonstrations appear to have subsided for now, reporting from Iran describes a tense calm, a heightened security presence, and widespread "disappointment and disillusionment" among Iranians. Today we are joined by Pouya Nikmand, an Iranian-born writer who escaped ...

Jan 22, 20261 hr 8 minEp. 262

Ep. 261: Thomas Paine's rise and fall

Thomas Paine arrived in America in 1774 with little to his name and a long record of personal failure behind him. Within a year, he wrote Common Sense, one of the most influential political pamphlets in history, helping to ignite the American Revolution and catapulting Paine into the American history hall of fame. But by the end of his life, he was widely reviled, politically isolated, and personally abandoned. Once celebrated as the voice of liberty, he died an outcast, mourned by only six peop...

Jan 15, 20261 hr 29 minEp. 261

Ep. 260: Remembering 'free-thinking' writer Nat Hentoff

On January 7, 2017, The Associated Press announced that "Free-thinking author and columnist Nat Hentoff is dead at 91." For well over 60 years, Hentoff was a one of America's foremost public intellectuals and a familiar byline to free speech advocates and jazz aficionados. The First Amendment was a way of life for Nat Hentoff. He would have been 100 years old this year. To reflect on his life and legacy, we are joined by his son Nick Hentoff and filmmaker David Lewis, whose 2013 documentary, " T...

Dec 19, 202559 minEp. 260

Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions

Changes at the Pentagon, Charlie Kirk and cancel culture, free speech and misinformation, globalized censorship, Indiana University, how to support FIRE, and more! Timestamps: 00:00 Introductions 02:11 What is the Press Clause, and who does it apply to? 05:53 FIRE's position on Oklahoma student grading incident 08:50 What does FIRE need from Members besides financial support? 15:59 FIRE's College Free Speech Rankings and what they mean 19:44 What is the latest on the Ann Seltzer cases ? 22:08 Wh...

Dec 10, 20251 hr 2 minEp. 259

Ep. 258: Donor disclosure and campaign finance at SCOTUS

The Institute for Free Speech's Bradley Smith and Brett Nolan join the show to discuss two upcoming Supreme Court arguments involving donor disclosure (First Choice Women's Resource Centers, Inc. v. Platkin) and political party contributions to candidates (National Republican Senatorial Committee v. FEC). The conversation also explores the broader landscape for political speech and campaign regulation, what legal battles may be next for the Supreme Court, and how both guests found their way into...

Nov 25, 202556 minEp. 258

Ep. 257: Conversion therapy at the Supreme Court

FIRE's Ronnie London and Conor Fitzpatrick join the show to discuss the Supreme Court's oral argument in the conversion therapy case, the Pentagon's new press rules, Indiana University's censorship rampage, and where the situation stands with visa and green card holders who say things the feds don't like. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Chiles v. Salazar, the conversion therapy case 30:03 The Pentagon's new press rules 48:48 What the hell is going on at Indiana University? 55:38 Feds boot noncitiz...

Nov 13, 20251 hr 6 minEp. 257

Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech

We tackle ten common arguments against free speech. FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen are the co-authors of the new book, "War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—And Why They Fail." Transcript Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:18 Book's origins 04:25 Argument #1: Words are violence 20:27 Argument #2: Words are dangerous 25:09 Argument #3: Hate speech isn't free speech 31:06 Argument #4: About shoutdowns 37:18 Argument #5: Free...

Oct 30, 20251 hr 14 minEp. 256

Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy

FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, "Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech." Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:17 Book origins 03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses 18:36 COVID's impact for international students' speech 22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation? 25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses 31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztü...

Oct 15, 202540 minEp. 255

Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?

What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel's jokes? Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" to their stations. Joining us: Anna Gomez , FCC Commissioner Ronnie London , FIRE General Counsel Bob Corn-Revere , FIRE Chief Counsel Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:46 What's the FCC? 07:35 What's the "public interest" standard? 14:20 What is the "fairness doctrin...

Sep 30, 202548 min

Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?

FIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech" 02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"? 05:42 How have "hate speech" laws played out overseas? 07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's "hate speech" remarks 08:50 Are "fighting words,"...

Sep 16, 20251 hr 5 min

Ep. 252: America's first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798

We're joined by award-winning author, Charles (Charlie) Slack , to discuss his book, Liberty's First Crisis: Adams, Jefferson and the Misfits Who Saved Free Speech . Slack focuses on the infamous Sedition Act of 1798 , which sparked the first major controversy over freedom of speech in America. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro (including note about Charlie Kirk) 03:59 Book origins 12:05 What were the Alien and Sedition Acts? 16:00 Prosecutions under the Act and their free speech implications 25:35 Free s...

Sep 15, 20251 hr 8 min

Ep. 251: Free speech and 'the executive power' with Advisory Opinions

What are the limits of presidential power? How many days has it been since President Trump's TikTok ban moratorium went into place? What is the state of the conservative legal movement? And where did former FIRE president David French go on his first date? French and Sarah Isgur of the popular legal podcast " Advisory Opinions " join the show to answer these questions and discuss the few free speech issues where they disagree with FIRE. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:18 Origin story of "Advisory Opi...

Sep 04, 20251 hr 13 min

Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment

We know the First Amendment protects hate speech. But has it always done so? And how have civil rights groups responded when their members are the target of hate speech? University of Iowa Law Professor Samantha Barbas is the author of a new law review article, " How American Civil Rights Groups Defeated Hate Speech Laws ." Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:04 "The Birth of a Nation" movie controversy 12:44 Henry Ford's anti-Semitic "Dearborn Independent" 22:41 American Jewish Committee's "quarantining...

Aug 28, 202557 min

Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers

2025 has not been kind to Harvard. To date, the Trump administration has revoked nearly $3 billion in research funding to the university , demanding violations of free speech, academic freedom, and institutional autonomy in return for restoring the funding. In response, Harvard filed a lawsuit , raising First Amendment claims. Helping us unpack all things Harvard are: Larry Summers, President Emeritus, professor (Harvard) & advisory council member (FIRE) Greg Lukianoff , President & CEO ...

Aug 12, 20251 hr 9 min

Ep. 248: Commercial speech and the First Amendment

Imagine the government forcing you to label your all-natural milk product as "imitation." Florida tried to make one dairy farm do just that, sparking a First Amendment question: Where's the line between a business's right to speak and protecting consumers from deception? In this episode, we explore how far free speech protections go for commercial speech with: Justin Pearson , managing attorney (Institute for Justice) Bob Corn-Revere , chief counsel (FIRE) Eugene Volokh , Thomas M. Siebel senior...

Aug 06, 202551 minEp. 248

Ep. 247: Justin Amash

Throughout his career, former Congressman Justin Amash has been a strong advocate for freedom of speech, writing that "The value of free speech comes from encountering views that are unorthodox, uncommon, or unaccepted…Free speech is a barren concept if people are limited to expressing views already widely held." In this special live episode, filmed in front of 200+ high schoolers attending FIRE's Free Speech Forum at American University in Washington, D.C., Amash takes questions from the audien...

Jul 24, 20251 hr 9 min

Ep. 246: Tech check — AI moratorium, Character AI lawsuit, FTC, Digital Services Act, and FSC v. Paxton

We're checking in on the latest news in tech and free speech. We cover the state AI regulation moratorium that failed in Congress, the ongoing Character A.I. lawsuit, the Federal Trade Commission's consent decree with Omnicom and Interpublic Group, the European Union's Digital Services Act, and what comes next after the Supreme Court's Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton decision. Guests: Ari Cohn — lead counsel for tech policy, FIRE Corbin Barthold — internet policy counsel, TechFreedom Timestamps:...

Jul 10, 20251 hr 12 min

Ep. 245: The Supreme Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton

FIRE staff responds to the Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton that addresses a Texas law requiring age verification for accessing certain sexual material online. Joining us: Will Creeley — Legal director Bob Corn-Revere — Chief counsel Ronnie London — General counsel Timestamps: 01:21 How the case wound up at the Supreme Court 06:57 Bob's experience with arguing strict scrutiny in the courts 09:32 Ronnie's perspective on the ruling 10:22 Brick + mortar stores vs. online sites 12...

Jun 27, 202547 min

Ep. 244: Censoring lawmakers, T-shirts, and seashells

We discuss the Supreme Court backing Maine lawmaker Laurel Libby, NPR filing suit against Trump, a years-long dispute over a student wearing a "there are only two genders" shirt, the Secret Service investigation into James Comey, the latest on Harvard vs. Trump, and more. Guests: Bob Corn-Revere — chief counsel, FIRE Lee Levine — former senior counsel, Ballard Spahr Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:34 Censure of Rep. Libby 07:02 Supreme Court shadow docket 13:53 NPR lawsuit against Trump admin 19:07 D...

Jun 05, 20251 hr 6 min

Ep. 243: Heather Mac Donald on Trump and free speech

Heather Mac Donald discusses the Trump administration's free speech record amidst its battles with higher ed, mainstream media, law firms, and more. Mac Donald is Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Her most recent book is " When race trumps merit: How the pursuit of equity sacrifices excellence, destroys beauty, and threatens lives. " Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:54 Mac Donald's personal experience with being shouted down 05:34 Amy Wax, Carole Hooven, and other cancelled professors...

May 22, 20251 hr

Ep. 242: Is cancel culture dead?

The co-authors of "The Canceling of the American Mind" discuss its new paperback release and where cancel culture stands a year and a half after the book's original publication. - Greg Lukianoff — President and CEO of FIRE Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind" - Rikki Schlott — New York Post columnist Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind" Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:35 Origin of book 07:56 Definition of cancel culture 17:55 Mike Adams, canceled professor 23:51 Alexi McCamm...

May 08, 202555 min

Ep. 241: The government's money, the government's rules?

Our guests today signed onto a statement by a group of 18 law professors who opposed the Trump administration's funding threats at Columbia on free speech and academic freedom grounds. Since then, Northwestern, Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, and nearly 60 other colleges and universities are under investigation with their funding hanging in the balance, allegedly for violations of civil rights law. To help us understand the funding threats, Harvard's recent lawsuit against the federal government, a...

Apr 23, 202555 min

Ep. 240: Is there a global free speech recession?

We travel from America to Europe, Russia, China, and more places to answer the question: Is there a global free speech recession? Guests: - Sarah McLaughlin : FIRE senior scholar, global expression - James Kirchick : FIRE senior fellow - Jacob Mchangama : FIRE senior fellow Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:52 Free speech global surveys 07:49 Freedom of expression deteriorating 11:43 Misinformation and disinformation 18:05 Russian state-sponsored media 24:55 Europe's Digital Services Act 29:26 Chinese ...

Apr 09, 20251 hr 5 min

Ep. 239: Columbia University, Mahmoud Khalil, DEI, law firms, and more

We explore how censorship is impacting institutions — from universities to law firms to the Maine House of Representatives. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:40 Federal government cuts Columbia's funding 16:57 Updates on the Mahmoud Khalil case 27:01 Ed Martin's Georgetown letter 34:59 Trump targeting law firms 55:01 Maine House censure of Rep. Laurel Libby 01:03:37 Outro Read the transcript. Guests: - Will Creeley , FIRE's legal director - Conor Fitzpatrick , FIRE's supervising senior attorney - Linds...

Mar 27, 20251 hr 4 min

Ep. 238: On Mahmoud Khalil

First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:53 Latest updates on Khalil 02:51 First Amendment implications 06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation 11:54 Chilling effects on free expression 21:06 Constitutional rights for non-citizens 24:03 The intersection of free speech and immigration law 27:02 Broader implication of immigration ...

Mar 18, 202539 min

Ep. 237: A tech policy bonanza! The FCC, FTC, AI regulations, and more

Does a cat stand on two legs or four? The answer to that question may tell you all you need to know about the government involving itself in social media content moderation. On today's show, we cover the latest tech policy developments involving the Federal Communications Commission, Federal Trade Commission, AI regulation, and more. Guests: - Ari Cohn , FIRE's lead counsel, tech policy. - Adam Thierer , a resident technology and innovation senior fellow at the R Street Institute - Jennifer Hudd...

Mar 12, 20251 hr 5 min

Ep. 236: JD Vance, 60 Minutes, the Associated Press, the FCC, and more

From JD Vance's free speech critique of Europe to the Trump administration barring the Associated Press from the Oval Office, free speech news is buzzing. General Counsel Ronnie London and Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere unpack the latest developments. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:49 JD Vance's speech in Europe 13:27 Margaret Brennan's comment on the Holocaust 15:13 Weimar fallacy 17:36 Trump admin v. Associated Press 21:33 DEI executive order 27:39 Trump's lawsuits targeting the media 28:54 FIRE de...

Feb 19, 20251 hr 6 min

Ep. 235: Cancel culture, legal education, and the Supreme Court with Ilya Shapiro

Over the years, elite institutions shifted from fostering open debate to enforcing ideological conformity. But as guest Ilya Shapiro puts it, "the pendulum is swinging back." He shares his firsthand experience with cancel culture and how the American Bar Association's policies influence legal education. Shapiro also opines on major free speech cases before the Supreme Court, including the TikTok ownership battle and Texas' age verification law for adult content. Shapiro is a senior fellow and di...

Feb 06, 20251 hr 19 min

Ep. 234: The Chicago Canon

The University of Chicago is known for its commitment to free speech and academic freedom. Why are these values important to the university? Where do they originate? And how do they help administrators navigate conflicts and controversies? Tony Banout and Tom Ginsburg direct the University of Chicago's Forum for Free Inquiry and Expression , which received a $100 million gift last year. They are also editors of " The Chicago Canon on Free Inquiry and Expression ," a new book that collects founda...

Jan 23, 20251 hr 8 min

Ep. 233: Rethinking free speech with Peter Ives

Is the free speech conversation too simplistic? Peter Ives thinks so. He is the author of " Rethinking Free Speech ," a new book that seeks to provide a more nuanced analysis of the free speech debate within various domains, from government to campus to social media. Ives is a professor of political science at the University of Winnipeg. He researches and writes on the politics of "global English," bridging the disciplines of language policy, political theory, and the influential ideas of Antoni...

Jan 09, 20251 hr 21 min
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