So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast - podcast cover

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.

Episodes

Ep. 242: Is cancel culture dead?

The co-authors of “The Canceling of the American Mind” discuss its new paperback release and where cancel culture stands a year and a half after the book’s original publication. - Greg Lukianoff — President and CEO of FIRE Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind" - Rikki Schlott — New York Post columnist Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind" Timestamps : 00:00 Intro 04:35 Origin of book 07:56 Definition of cancel culture 17:55 Mike Adams, canceled professor 23:51 Alexi McCam...

May 08, 202555 min

Ep. 241: The government’s money, the government’s rules?

Our guests today signed onto a statement by a group of 18 law professors who opposed the Trump administration’s funding threats at Columbia on free speech and academic freedom grounds. Since then, Northwestern, Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, and nearly 60 other colleges and universities are under investigation with their funding hanging in the balance, allegedly for violations of civil rights law. To help us understand the funding threats, Harvard’s recent lawsuit against the federal government, a...

Apr 23, 202555 min

Ep. 240: Is there a global free speech recession?

We travel from America to Europe, Russia, China, and more places to answer the question: Is there a global free speech recession? Guests : - Sarah McLaughlin : FIRE senior scholar, global expression - James Kirchick : FIRE senior fellow - Jacob Mchangama : FIRE senior fellow Timestamps : 00:00 Intro 03:52 Free speech global surveys 07:49 Freedom of expression deteriorating 11:43 Misinformation and disinformation 18:05 Russian state-sponsored media 24:55 Europe’s Digital Services Act 29:26 Chines...

Apr 09, 20251 hr 5 min

Ep. 239: Columbia University, Mahmoud Khalil, DEI, law firms, and more

We explore how censorship is impacting institutions — from universities to law firms to the Maine House of Representatives. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:40 Federal government cuts Columbia’s funding 16:57 Updates on the Mahmoud Khalil case 27:01 Ed Martin’s Georgetown letter 34:59 Trump targeting law firms 55:01 Maine House censure of Rep. Laurel Libby 01:03:37 Outro Read the transcript. Guests: - Will Creeley , FIRE’s legal director - Conor Fitzpatrick , FIRE’s supervising senior attorney - Linds...

Mar 27, 20251 hr 4 min

Ep. 238: On Mahmoud Khalil

First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:53 Latest updates on Khalil 02:51 First Amendment implications 06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation 11:54 Chilling effects on free expression 21:06 Constitutional rights for non-citizens 24:03 The intersection of free speech and immigration law 27:02 Broader implication of immigration ...

Mar 18, 202539 min

Ep. 237: A tech policy bonanza! The FCC, FTC, AI regulations, and more

Does a cat stand on two legs or four? The answer to that question may tell you all you need to know about the government involving itself in social media content moderation. On today’s show, we cover the latest tech policy developments involving the Federal Communications Commission, Federal Trade Commission, AI regulation, and more. Guests: - Ari Cohn , FIRE’s lead counsel, tech policy. - Adam Thierer , a resident technology and innovation senior fellow at the R Street Institute - Jennifer Hudd...

Mar 12, 20251 hr 5 min

Ep. 236: JD Vance, 60 Minutes, the Associated Press, the FCC, and more

From JD Vance’s free speech critique of Europe to the Trump administration barring the Associated Press from the Oval Office, free speech news is buzzing. General Counsel Ronnie London and Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere unpack the latest developments. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:49 JD Vance’s speech in Europe 13:27 Margaret Brennan’s comment on the Holocaust 15:13 Weimar fallacy 17:36 Trump admin v. Associated Press 21:33 DEI executive order 27:39 Trump’s lawsuits targeting the media 28:54 FIRE de...

Feb 19, 20251 hr 6 min

Ep. 235: Cancel culture, legal education, and the Supreme Court with Ilya Shapiro

Over the years, elite institutions shifted from fostering open debate to enforcing ideological conformity. But as guest Ilya Shapiro puts it, “the pendulum is swinging back.” He shares his firsthand experience with cancel culture and how the American Bar Association’s policies influence legal education. Shapiro also opines on major free speech cases before the Supreme Court, including the TikTok ownership battle and Texas’ age verification law for adult content. Shapiro is a senior fellow and di...

Feb 06, 20251 hr 19 min

Ep. 234: The Chicago Canon

The University of Chicago is known for its commitment to free speech and academic freedom. Why are these values important to the university? Where do they originate? And how do they help administrators navigate conflicts and controversies? Tony Banout and Tom Ginsburg direct the University of Chicago’s Forum for Free Inquiry and Expression , which received a $100 million gift last year. They are also editors of “ The Chicago Canon on Free Inquiry and Expression ,” a new book that collects founda...

Jan 23, 20251 hr 8 min

Ep. 233: Rethinking free speech with Peter Ives

Is the free speech conversation too simplistic? Peter Ives thinks so. He is the author of “ Rethinking Free Speech ,” a new book that seeks to provide a more nuanced analysis of the free speech debate within various domains, from government to campus to social media. Ives is a professor of political science at the University of Winnipeg. He researches and writes on the politics of “global English," bridging the disciplines of language policy, political theory, and the influential ideas of Antoni...

Jan 09, 20251 hr 21 min

Ep. 232: We answer your free speech questions

FIRE staffers take your questions on the TikTok ban, mandatory DEI statements, the Kids Online Safety Act, Trump vs. the media, and more. Joining us: Ari Cohn, lead counsel for tech policy Robert Shibley, special counsel for campus advocacy Will Creeley, legal director This webinar was open to the public. Future monthly FIRE Member Webinars will not be. Become a paid subscriber today to receive invitations to future live webinars. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at thefire...

Dec 18, 20241 hr 7 min

Ep. 231: What is academic freedom? With Keith Whittington

“Who controls what is taught in American universities — professors or politicians?” Yale Law professor Keith Whittington answers this timely question and more in his new book, “You Can’t Teach That! The Battle over University Classrooms.” He joins the podcast to discuss the history of academic freedom, the difference between intramural and extramural speech, and why there is a “weaponization” of intellectual diversity. Keith E. Whittington is the David Boies Professor of Law at Yale Law School. ...

Dec 12, 20241 hr 7 min

Ep. 230: Wilson vs. FDR: Who was worse for free speech?

Woodrow Wilson or Franklin D. Roosevelt: which president was worse for free speech? In August, FIRE posted a viral X thread , arguing that Woodrow Wilson may be America’s worst-ever president for free speech. Despite the growing recognition of Wilson’s censorship, there was a professor who wrote a recent book on FDR’s free speech record, arguing that FDR was worse. Representing the Wilson side in our discussion is Christopher Cox, author of the new book, “ Woodrow Wilson: The Light Withdrawn .” ...

Nov 25, 20241 hr 10 min

Ep. 229: Ayaan Hirsi Ali will not submit

Ayaan Hirsi Ali grew up in a culture of conformity. She was beaten and mutilated. She was told who she must marry. Eventually, she rebelled. “You don’t speak up at first,” she told us. “First you leave and you find a place of safety. It’s only after that experience that it occurred to me to speak up about anything.” Hirsi Ali is a human rights activist, a research fellow at the Hoover Institution, the founder of the AHA Foundation, and the host of the Ayaan Hirsi Ali Podcast . She is also the be...

Nov 14, 202445 min

Ep. 228: Does artificial intelligence have free speech rights?

In this live recording of “So to Speak” at the First Amendment Lawyers Association meeting, Samir Jain, Andy Phillips, and Benjamin Wittes discuss the legal questions surrounding free speech and artificial intelligence. Samir Jain is the vice president of policy at the Center for Democracy and Technology. Andy Phillips is the managing partner and co-founder at the law firm Meier Watkins Philips and Pusch. Benjamin Wittes is a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution and c...

Nov 01, 20241 hr 11 min

Ep. 227: Should there be categories of unprotected speech?

The FIRE team debates the proposition: Should there be any categories of unprotected speech? General Counsel Ronnie London and Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere go through each category of speech falling outside First Amendment protection to decide whether it should remain unprotected or if it’s time to “remove an arrow from the government’s quiver.” Read the transcript . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 17:59 Obscenity 21:20 Child pornography 25:25 Fighting words 32:36 Defamation 41:22 Incitement to imminen...

Oct 22, 20241 hr 4 min

Ep. 226: ‘Shouting fire,’ deepfake laws, tenured professors, and mask bans

The FIRE team discusses Tim Walz’s controversial comments on hate speech and “shouting fire in a crowded theater.” We also examine California’s AI deepfake laws, the punishment of tenured professors, and mask bans. Joining us are: Aaron Terr, FIRE’s director of Public Advocacy; Connor Murnane, FIRE’s Campus Advocacy chief of staff; and Adam Goldstein, FIRE’s vice president of strategic initiatives. Read the transcript . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:51 Tim Walz’s comments on hate speech and “shouti...

Oct 10, 20241 hr 6 min

Ep. 225: Debating social media content moderation

Can free speech and content moderation on social media coexist? Jonathan Rauch and Renee DiResta discuss the complexities of content moderation on social media platforms. They explore how platforms balance free expression with the need to moderate harmful content and the consequences of censorship in a digital world. Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of “ The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth ” and “ Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on F...

Sep 26, 20241 hr 12 min

Ep. 224: Ayn Rand, Objectivism, and free speech

What happens when philosopher Ayn Rand’s theories meet free speech? Tara Smith and Onkar Ghate of the Ayn Rand Institute explore Rand’s Objectivist philosophy, its emphasis on reason and individual rights, and how it applies to contemporary free speech issues. Smith and Onkar are contributors to a new book, “ The First Amendment: Essays on the Imperative of Intellectual Freedom .” Listeners may be particularly interested in their argument that John Stuart Mill, widely regarded as a free speech h...

Sep 12, 20241 hr 10 min

Ep. 223: Teaching conservatism on a liberal college campus

Can a course on conservatism shake up the liberal status quo on campus? Tufts University professor Eitan Hersh presents his unique class on American conservatism and its impact on campus free speech and open dialogue. He discusses the challenges and opportunities of teaching conservative thought in a predominantly liberal academic environment. Eitan Hersh is a professor of political science. He earned his Ph.D. from Harvard University in 2011 and was a faculty member at Yale University from 2011...

Aug 29, 202448 min

Ep. 222: John Stuart Mill’s lasting impact on the Supreme Court

How has 19th-century English philosopher John Stuart Mill influenced America’s conception of free speech and the First Amendment? In their new book, “ The Supreme Court and the Philosopher: How John Stuart Mill Shaped U.S. Free Speech Protections, ” co-authors Eric Kasper and Troy Kozma look at how the Supreme Court has increasingly aligned its interpretation of free expression with Mill’s philosophy, as articulated in “ On Liberty .” Eric Kasper is professor of political science at the Universi...

Aug 15, 20241 hr 4 minEp. 222

Ep. 221: Section 230 co-author, Rep. Christopher Cox

Some argue that Section 230 allows the internet to flourish. Others argue it allows harmful content to flourish. Christopher Cox knows something about Section 230: He co-wrote it. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is an American law passed in 1996 that shields websites from liability for content posted on their sites by users. What does Rep. Cox make of the law today? Rep. Cox was a 17-year member of the House of Representatives and is a former chairman of the Securities and Exchange...

Aug 01, 202458 min

Ep. 220: Political violence and speech

Did overheated political rhetoric lead to the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump? On today’s show we explore political violence: its history, its causes, and its relationship with free speech. Flemming Rose is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. He previously served as foreign affairs editor and culture editor at the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. In 2005, he was principally responsible for publishing the cartoons that initiated the Muhammad cartoons controversy. Nadine...

Jul 18, 20241 hr 6 min

Ep. 219: The First Amendment at the Supreme Court

The Supreme Court term is over. We review its First Amendment cases. Joining the show are FIRE Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London, and Institute for Justice Deputy Litigation Director Robert McNamara. Become a FIRE Member today and gain access to live monthly webinars where you can ask questions of FIRE staff. The next webinar is July 8 at 1 p.m. ET. We will take your questions about the Supreme Court term. Show Notes: Transcript Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:53 Moody v....

Jul 03, 20241 hr 39 min

Ep. 218: A warning label on social media?

There is a movement afoot to restrict young people’s access to social media and pornography. Critics of social media and online porn argue that they can be harmful to minors, and states across the country are taking up the cause, considering laws that would impose age-verification, curfews, parental opt-ins, and other restrictions. Meanwhile, critics of the critics argue that the evidence of harm isn’t so conclusive and that many of the proposed restrictions violate core civil liberties such as ...

Jun 25, 20241 hr 27 min

Ep. 217: ‘Defending pornography’

It is said that censorship is the strongest drive in human nature — with sex being a weak second. But what happens when these two primordial drives clash? Does censorship or sex win out? Nadine Strossen is a professor emerita at New York Law School, a former president of the ACLU, and a senior fellow at FIRE. She is also the author of “ Defending Pornography: Free Speech, Sex, and the Fight for Women’s Rights .” First released in 1995, the book was reissued this year with a new preface. Mary Ann...

Jun 20, 20241 hr 14 min

Ep. 216: Section 230 and online content moderation

Did 26 words from an American law passed in 1996 create the internet? Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act says that interactive websites and applications cannot be held legally liable for the content posted on their sites by their users. Without the law, it’s likely Facebook, Amazon, Reddit, Yelp, and X wouldn’t exist — at least not in their current form. But some say the law shields large tech companies from liability for enabling, or even amplifying, harmful content. On today’s show,...

Jun 06, 20241 hr 21 min

Ep. 215: ‘Private Censorship’ with J.P. Messina

The First Amendment forbids government censorship. Private institutions, on the other hand, are generally free to restrict speech. How should we think about private censorship and its role within a liberal society? On today’s episode, we’re joined by J.P. Messina, an assistant professor in the philosophy department at Purdue University and the author of the new book, “ Private Censorship .” Also on the show is Aaron Terr, FIRE’s director of public advocacy. Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 3:10 The ...

May 21, 20241 hr 17 min

Ep. 214: The Antisemitism Awareness Act

On May 1, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Antisemitism Awareness Act by a vote of 320 to 91. Proponents of the law say it is necessary to address anti-Semitic discrimination on college campuses. Opponents argue it threatens free speech. Who’s right? Kenneth Stern was the lead drafter of the definition of anti-Semitism used in the act. But he said the definition was never meant to punish speech. Rather, it was drafted to help data collectors write reports. Stern is the director of th...

May 07, 20241 hr 2 min

Ep. 213: Campus unrest - live webinar

Host Nico Perrino joins his FIRE colleagues Will Creeley and Alex Morey to answer questions about the recent campus unrest and its First Amendment implications. Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 0:41 What is FIRE?/campus unrest 5:44 What are the basic First Amendment principles for campus protest? 11:30 Student encampments 18:09 Exceptions to the First Amendment 29:01 Can administrators limit access to non-students/faculty? 34:13 Denying recognition to Students for Justice in Palestine 36:26 Were pro...

Apr 30, 20241 hr 6 min
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