Snap Judgment by Snap Judgment by Snap Judgment by Snap Judgment with Snap Judgment What up world! This is Go Mine with me, Kevin Hart. Guys, and all Go Mine's we get inside the minds of amazing artists, journalists, entrepreneurs, and multi-hiphonants. Every week guys we get the stories, the authentic conversations, the gems that guide our guests through their path to success. Listen to Go Mine's every week with serious ex-semit them. Apple Pie and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Support for this podcast comes from the San Jose Museum of Art. Christina Fernandez, multiple exposures, features richly layered artworks that convey complex stories about migration, labor, and more. On view through September 22nd, tickets at SJMUSA RT.ORG Support comes from Cal State Teach, whose mission is to empower and equip teacher candidates
to support diverse learners for California's future. Their vision is to prepare educators to cultivate learning and ensure equity for all students regardless of race, immigration status, gender identity, ability, and more. Learn about their accredited multiple subject teacher credentialing programs at CalStateTeach.net. That is CalStateTeach.net. As a kid, because we used outdated textbooks, they taught us that the difference between
humans and animals was that we used tools, and they don't. But it turns out lots of animals used tools. Well, they say humans are the only species with language. Then they record primate, dolphin, whale communications. Well, they say culture, its self-awareness, its morality. Check, check, check. All of it. Until finally, you know, a bit of peak. They say what distinguishes us is that in effortful spirit. Well, okay, but not so fast.
Today on Snap Judgment, we proudly present the biggest soul. My name is Washington. I don't know where the line is. Maybe soon, you won't either. When you're listening, it's Snap Judgment. Support for this podcast comes from the San Jose Museum of Art. Christina Fernandez, multiple exposures, features richly layered artworks that convey complex stories about migration, labor, and more. On view through September 22nd, tickets at SJMUSA RT.org.
Snap Judgment is brought to you by Progressive. Recustomers who saved by switching their home and car saved nearly $800 on average. Quote at Progressive.com. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates National average 12 month savings of $793 by New Customer Survey who saved the progress of between June 2021 and May 2022. Potential savings will vary. Welcome back to Snap Judgment. My name is Washington. We begin with a very special friendship
when this lasted over 50 years. At Apulgus is a small town in the Georgia Florida borderline, the population of 445 people and three Asian elephants. Consistent listeners should note, this is a real story. And bad things can't happen to good animals. These elephants live in a refuge of 850 acres of rolling hills designed to mimic an elephant's natural habitat. Snap Judgment. And it's a place that we've created so that captive
held elephants can come and live a more natural life. Hi, I'm Carol Buckley. I'm the founder and president of Elephant Aid International. Carol Buckley, blonde, slim, self-described as a zoomie kind of person with lots of energy. She built this refuge, cleared fields, enlisted volunteers to help her install fences, raised hundreds of thousands of dollars from fellow elephant lovers.
So this 850 acre piece of land really meets the need. Because of the topography, in the past four decades, Carol has rescued over 25 captive elephants in the US. Years ago, she coordinated the largest single rescue of elephants in US history. She's helped tree hundreds of elephants in Nepal and Thailand from living their lives and chains. Now, she's focused on the well-being of a smaller cohort of animals. So the elephants are all different in how they like to drink. Some like to drink out of
a crop, some don't. Some like to have the water right into their nose. That's how bow-knights for him, bow-knights. Hello big man. Bow is a former circus elephant. Moondee came from an underfunded zoo in Puerto Rico. And Tara, she's Carol's 10,000 pound best friend. Hey there, Tara. How's it going, pumpkin? You have a mouthful, don't you? Before Carol knew what an elephant refuge was, before she could even imagine elephants living chain-free lives, there was Tara.
She's the reason this whole place exists. Tara is my mentor, but she taught me everything and other elephants did too, but Tara is it? Carol wasn't always all about the liberation of elephants. Back when Carol met Tara, she was in her 20s, studying for a job in animal training. Tara was just a baby. She was born in Burma and probably captured in the wild before she was smuggled into Thailand.
Into Southern California, where there was a list of people who wanted baby elephants and it was legal to just have an elephant. It was the 70s. There weren't as many rules back then about how to own and treat animals. The day Carol met Tara was a hot one in late September. Carol was home trying to study. She didn't have AC so she left the door open. Suddenly her dog started barking. And the dog jumped up and ran out the door.
I looked up and through the window I saw this tiny, hairy, round, little elephant with a rope around her neck. Being walked by this man, he must be 10 foot tall, skinny as a rail, dressed completely in black with a cowboy hat and black cowboy boots. It was walking this baby elephant. So I jump up, run over it. Who is she? What are you doing? Why is she here? She learned that the baby elephant lived at Bob's tire store. Bob fed her jelly beans and
formula. While they were talking, Carol reached down to touch the baby elephant's head. She was covered with air. She had hair hanging down her forehead. She had hair hanging out her chin out her ears. She had hair everywhere. She weighed around 600 pounds. As heavy as a grand piano. And she had very pronounced eye balls. They bugged out a little bit. And she wanted to keep walking. And he was talking really slow. And she was zooming really fast. And I was zooming really fast.
Bob told Carol she could come see her at the store any time. And then Bob and the baby elephant walked off. I went in the house, locked everything up and then ran down the road to that tire store. And I was standing there when he returned with her. I was excited because here was another animal that I had never been up close to before. And the energy from a wild animal, it's like nothing else. I can't even explain it. That energy is intense.
Bob told Carol she could feed the elephant lunch if she wanted. Which is four quirk size bottles filled with the formula peanut butter oatmeal. I don't remember anything else because I wasn't listening because I was so excited to give this elephant the bottle. When I gave her the bottle, there was a shift in her attention. I'm giving her food. Now I just thought, oh, she likes me. Now she's standing next to me. Now she's pushing
on me. So as I'm feeding her, I say to Bob, you know, I want to help. And he said, well, she lives in the back of this delivery truck. He says, you can come and clean it out. In fact, when I was feeding her the bottle, she was in that delivery truck. Every morning, Carol went into the truck with the elephant to clean. And I'd be cleaning up, you know, straw and shabies with her in there. And it's up to the space was probably
what, six by six. Carol was thrilled to clean up after the elephant. But she also had other ideas. At the time, Ventura County was known as a place with lax policies around exotic animal ownership. The county was home to jungle land where animals like the famous MGM lion were trained and rented out to movie studios. Ventura County was a place where people like Bob could purchase elephants for their storefronts. Bob had once displayed
an e-moo, a tiger, and parrots at his tire store. Carol was there because she was accepted into a special more park program called exotic animal training. Nowadays, the program is called animal care and training. The whole point of the program was to launch the next generation of lion tamers and snake handlers and elephant carolers all for entertainment.
And during Carol's first week of classes, when her classmates were learning how to train rats, she met this hairy baby elephant living in a tire store and she couldn't walk away. And then I said, I want to start teaching her some things. Bob was okay with it. He had this giant parking lot outside the tire store. Just days after Carol had met the elephant,
she got some 50 foot ropes and started lining the back area of the parking lot. She attached a tether to the elephant's leg so she wouldn't run away. Because we were right on LA Avenue of four lane highway that was with lots of traffic. And there was a railroad track on the other side of the four lane highway. And trains went there a lot. Carol had always been good at training animals. Ever since she was a kid,
she teach dogs how to sit, come, heal. The first things Carol taught the baby elephant were basic stable manners. Stop, move backwards, stop, go to the right, stop, go to the left, stop, come here. This is basic. It's like, don't run, stay with me. She's going to have to do what she's told. The stable manners were a degree of control. Control. It was sort of the way Carol moved through life. And I'm a really controlling
person. So it was just natural. It was just natural that I'd want to control them and teach them things. But it was more than just control. Carol was genuinely concerned for this tire store elephant. She felt she could maybe give the elephant a better, safer life. A home beyond a six by six foot truck bed. A future outside of a tire store. She saw how Bob would take the elephant to local schools. He'd let her loose to run around with the kids.
So the kids are running. And his elephant is running. And I'm thinking, oh my god, she's going to run over somebody. This is really dangerous. Did you don't teach her discipline? It will run her life. She'll kill somebody. And that's it. For the rest of her life, she'll have that label as a killer and she'll be treated terribly by anybody who gets her. So it was to protect her, really. And she also just really enjoyed the
process and felt the elephant enjoyed it too. There's a joy when an animal wants to engage in the training game. But means it's fun for them. When they get it, if you're both like in it together, they get a spark too. And you were just doing this like for your fun too. You weren't getting paid. Yeah, this was fun. This was what an opportunity. After the baby elephant mastered her stable manners, Carol went back to the parking lot to start
teaching her tricks. So I started with the harmonica. But the harmonica up to her nose. She breathes, she makes a sound. And then it was incredible. She accidentally blew through the harmonica twice. She got treats twice. The next time I put the harmonica up in the air, she reached for it with her trunk and held it really tight and blew as hard as she could. Carol brought a xylophone to the
elephant and then a drum. After class, Carol spent hours in the parking lot teaching the elephant how to hold and play these instruments to lift her foot up, lift her trunk up, how to skip and sit down and lay on the ground. I was teaching her all the things that performing circus elephants do. I never let her get away with anything she had to do everything perfectly. If she's going to do a hind leg stand, pads of a feet or face in the ceiling. You know, if she's going to do a tub sit-up,
it's going to be executed properly. The elephant still belonged to Bob. But Carol was in charge of what she ate where she went, what she did. And finally, after months together, Carol wondered, why was she still in animal training school when she was already training a real live elephant? My goal was to be the best elephant trainer in the world. And she was going to teach me. So Carol dropped out of school and got a gig for the elephant at a theme park in Northern California.
She had to get her out of that tire store and they're just worn a lot of options. She cast her first paycheck to actually buy the elephant from Bob. And she named the elephant Tara. Carol was just 21 years old. I didn't have a plan for how it's all going to work out. I had a plan for what I was going to do for this elephant today and tomorrow. She bought an 18-wheeler from Bob. Carol slept in the five-foot area in the front of the truck
on a lofted mattress. Tara slept in the other three quarters of the truck. It was sweet because at night she wouldn't lay down to go to sleep until she could hear that I was all settled. So when I was in bed and there was no more activity anymore, then she would lay down and she would slide down the wall and then just lay down and get all wiggly and squiggly until she was comfortable. So the trailer would be rocking back and forth back and forth until
it was silent and then she would start snoring. So I'd know she was asleep. The poor thing I used to check on her all the time and when she was sleeping I'd touch her because I thought maybe she was dead. I was a nervous mom. Nervous because they breathed so seldom. I'd just stand over and watch her and go, she's not breathing. And that's the first time I allowed myself to accept how attached I was to her. You know, it was definitely mother daughter. But how do I
say this? I was, well, I was controlling. You know, I was controlling person. So I was pretty strict. I rejected the idea that the way that I was with Tara and was mothering her because I felt a bit insulted by it. What I was striving to be was a good elephant trainer. I wasn't striving to be a mother. There wasn't any other woman doing an elephant act. There were women showgirls, but there was no woman who was performing with the elephants. And so I wanted to be taken
seriously. I wanted people to see me as this trainer. And I didn't want them to see me as, oh, look at this mom. She lives at the little elephant. Carol started chasing her dream of being one of the first female elephant trainers. First doing gigs at Marriott Great America. And then joining a traveling circus. She and Tara would do two acts in a row and then drive to another city almost
every night. Sometimes they did acts in front of thousands of people in hockey arenas in British Columbia, Indora arenas in the Midwest, Grand Venues all over North America, New York City, Hawaii, Kansas. There'd be a mass of people there. She'd get silly, willing. She'd start to move around and I'd say, now you got to stand still for a minute. She'd listen to me and I'd just go see how smart she is. And then I'd say, okay, what's a tail? What's a trunk? She put her tail in my hand.
She'd lift your foot and how about a few curtsy and she curtsy. Then I'd say, you want to show these people how elephant see the watermelon? And she'd shake her head. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'd bring the watermelon out and first off, she'd try and roll it up her like to roll it up into her mouth. She'd try that. That's not going to work. I'd say, okay, go for it. And then she'd step on it and bust it open and then just start gobbling it up and people were like, wow.
She was so proud of herself. I was so proud of her. Again, this was the 70s. At that time in history, circus was totally acceptable. It was not viewed as bad at all. That, Tarn, I were doing circus. If I was beating her to do that, that would be different. But I wasn't beating her. She was doing it voluntarily. There was no question that I was doing exactly what I should be doing, how I should be doing it. She had all this energy. So plenty and around
and doing all these tricks. Elephants are walking bodies of emotion. And you think of an entire auditorium of people clapping and cheering for her and sending all this positive admiration energy at her, she just soaked it up. And she thrived on it for a few years. And then as she was getting into her preteens, I saw a shift. That she wasn't enjoying performing anymore. When Carol started feeling that the circus wasn't making Tara happy, she stopped taking Tara to
circus gigs altogether. But owning an elephant wasn't cheap. There was no such thing yet as an elephant sanctuary in the US. What was Carol supposed to do to keep this elephant safe and fed? The length some people go to keep their elephant safe, find out exactly what Carol does when we return. Stay tuned. Support for Snap Judgment. Count from Odo. Put it simply, Odo is built to save.
Odo saves time. Odo saves money, but most importantly, Odo saves businesses. That's right. Odo superhero software rescues companies from the perils of disconnected platforms and Odo's utility belt. Of user friendly applications puts the power of total business management in the palm of your hand. Learn more at odu.com slash snap. That's Odo.com slash snap. Odo saving the world one business at a time. Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the biggest sole episode. Again, it's a true story since the
listener should know that bad things can't happen to good animals. When last we left, Carol is fast running out of money, but she still got to keep her elephant safe and fed. Snap Judgment. Taryn, I needed a further gimmick. It wasn't enough that this was this little girl and this little elephant performing together. We needed something else. And then one day, Taryn Carol were standing outside a convention center doing some basic tricks. An a man commented on how well Tara could balance on a
tub. He suggested that she could be an ice skater. And I said that will never happen. Ice skating would be way too risky for Tara. And then she thought about it a little more and realized, oh my gosh, she could roll her skate. Carol had $3,000 in her bank account. She knew that in order to keep Tara fed and housed. She'd need nearly that entire amount per month. Circus performing was out. There was nowhere else for the elephant to go. Something in Carol's heart told her that roller skating
could be Tara's meal ticket. She went to a welder and showed him her design for elephant skates that would be molded around the shape of Tara's foot. And then she went to a local bootmaker and explained she needed elephant boots. It's gonna cost me $2,800 to have these skates made. I was nervous. The straps of the skate were made with seatbelts. The boots were leather with thick rubber padding around the foot. The wheels had wretcheds, which did not allow the wheels
to roll backwards. They could only roll forwards. Carol took Tara on a concrete foundation of a home under construction. The first challenge would be getting Tara's foot in the boot. To Carol's surprise, she puts her foot in there and I tell her, well, wiggle it to the right and then now push down on it and are you all the way in? Okay. So she was into it. She was excited. Her ears are flapping. Her tail is going in. She's chrup chrup chrup chrup chrup chrup chrup chrup chrup
I said, we just be still. Because as she puts her foot in there and the wheels start to roll, she's like, oh, this is falling. This is rolling. I'm like, be still. Let me finish this first before you do that. So she can't help herself. She's rolling it a little bit. Okay. Now we're going to
put this other one on. We're going to take it off if you don't like it. I could hardly stop her from putting the second one on and I hardly got the strap strapped and she is now like racing around with her two front skates going, pushing them back and forth and back and forth. They're now clamping them on the ground and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'd say keep your keep your feet on the ground. Stop it. You know, she's got 50 pound of skate and she's wheeling
it around and throwing her foot around like it in this fun. I'd just put your foot on the ground. Now and then I moved it back and forth and showed her that it moved and I said, that's what I need you to keep your feet on the ground. So she's racing around and then actually she broke one skate. Okay. All right. Well, now we know you like this and we know it can work. So I had them make the backskates. Taurus skated at the Burbank Christmas parade in front of the Lincoln center in
New York City, the Jerry Lewis telethon. Carol felt that Tara loved to skate. There's this video of Taurus skating. She's a size of a cargo container lifting each of her plate-sized skates one after the other, gliding around a ring. Tara even took her skating gig abroad. She spent four months in Seoul, Korea skating at a Sheraton. It was official. Tara had become a world famous roller skating elephant and Carol had become a world famous elephant trainer.
We're here in the mountains of Ohai with Carol Buckley, the owner and trainer of the world's only roller skating elephant, right? Right. Now what inspired the roller skates? Need of money. We needed to do something different. You need to give it, right? Yes. I guess it worked out already. Yeah, it has. That's me. What's it like living day-to-day with an elephant? She eats about 130 pounds of food a day, which includes hay, grains, fruits and vegetables, bread.
And I had to tell her to get away from that stuff there. Tara, leave it alone. Leave it alone. Now go on. Tara grew from 2,000 pounds to 5,000 to 7,000 pounds. And then she started losing interest in her roller skating gigs and in TV appearances. And I'm learning, oh my gosh, mothers describe their teenagers like this and she's an elephant. And if she doesn't like it, it's not fun for me. I really don't know what the next step is.
What do I do? She has to mentor for advice who came back and said, Tara's just spoiled. She's not taking on any responsibility and I thought, taking on responsibility, she's an elephant. What do you mean? He said, Carol, she's so much smarter than you know. If she was in a natural family herd by this age, she'd be babysitting her little sister. And I said, well, how do I give an elephant responsibilities? The mentor said it might be time for Tara to have a family of her own.
I was told and believed that this would be a good time to parade her. And if she had her own calf, this would help her mature and let her have the experience in life that she should have. Carol realized this actually might be an answer to all their problems. She found a zoo in Nashville that wanted a baby elephant born there. The zoo promised Carol that if Tara had her baby there, the zoo would build them a 30 acre sanctuary, where Tara could live safe and free. So I agreed.
The gestational period for elephants is two years. And during that time, Carol and Tara made the journey to Nashville. Like always, Carol would pull over at Ponds where Tara could swim, she'd get back in the trailer and they'd hit the road. They stopped in Texas to stay with a friend for a while. And after a few months, they were in Nashville. Tara had never lived in the wild, had never seen another elephant give birth, or even interact with a calf.
Carol was nervous about how Tara would do this, if she could do it. Keep in mind, I'd never had a child, so I was in the dark on this whole thing. Tara and Carol were just getting used to their new setting. When one day in early spring, Carol saw Tara run through a pond, like she was running away from something. It was Tara's first contraction. They were both terrified. Carol directed Tara into a barn, a huge metal building with a steel corral inside. The zoo that met them there.
She is squatting and the baby has to go straight up towards the spine, and up over and then back down through the birth canal. It's quite a path that the elephant has to take. Tara's contractions lasted an entire day, and then another day. And then it was day three. Her contractions kept going, but she wasn't delivering, and so I started making phone calls. Carol wouldn't leave Tara's side. She pieced back and forth, making calls to an elephant expert to ask for more advice.
He told Carol they could give Tara a oxytocin, which would speed up the labor. What's the downside? Well, if she's not dilated, then the baby's head is going to ram up against her and kill her and the baby. And he says, but you've got to make the decision about giving this shot. I said, I will not. For God's sake, I'm not an expert. I'm not a vet. You're telling me if she's not dilated, that we could kill her and the baby. Oh my God. Carol had the vial of oxytocin on hand.
But first, she called another elephant vet at the London Zoo. He said, calm down. You have called the right place. Is she squirting milk? I said, yes, he says she's dilated. He says, give a half cc in the muscle. It should take 10 minutes. And then if the contractions aren't strong enough, give another half cc, but give it to her in the muscle. Okay, fine. Thank you. I leave. I go back. I talk to our vet and say, we're giving in the muscle. We're only giving a half cc. Everybody ready?
Yeah, we're ready. Before he pulls the needle out, she is in full blown contraction. She is squirting. She pushes once and this teeny, teeny tip of a trunk come out the boba. And then, let's suck it back in. And then she goes into another contraction. That's when we see, there's no front legs. We see the face and her shoulders are there. And then the baby goes back in again. And I'm assuming that I know what I'm seeing that she's in trouble.
Because if she can't clear those shoulders, she can't clear that baby. And with that, with the third push, Tara pushes the baby, squats down, takes the bottom, the pad, the bottom of her back foot, places it against the baby's head, pushes that against her other leg and pulls the baby out. It was amazing. Cell memory. Wisdom. Wisdom, nobody showed her how to do that. So the baby is out and on the ground. And Tara just moves away a few feet. And we're on the baby.
We're, you know, have this little suction cup to take the mucus out of the trunk. I look at the vet and he starts doing CPR on her and then we start to get her oxygen. We do all this stuff. I remember in the moment, no, I'm seeing her breathing. I want her to be alive so badly that I'm seeing her breathing, but she's not. And then it's probably out 30 minutes. And he said, Carol, she's gone. The vet packs up his things. And a few feet away, Tara is calmly standing there, watching.
And Tara, then when sees, when the other guys are moving away, moving the equipment away, she put her trunk on the baby's nose and she sucked. Then she put her trunk on the baby's mouth and she sucked on the mouth. Again, cell memory. How would she know to do that? And she backed up to the baby and she put the bottom of her foot on the baby's chest. Lightly around the heart. Set her foot there. Didn't push down. Left it there for... One, two, three, four, five, six.
Then removed her foot, walked away, walked out of the barn and left. Now I saw that she had wisdom beyond my comprehension and beyond what she had ever demonstrated and probably beyond what she ever recognized. Carol later found out that Tara's calf died from arthrogroposis multiplex. A joint condition, probably caused by a mosquito bite, Tara got when she was pregnant. The vets had done everything they could. Carol spent the next 24 hours in a fog. I was stunned. Actually I was shocked.
I don't think Tara was, but she recognized that I was. She was hanging close and she kept putting her trunk up to my nose because they have an incredible sense of smell and they can tell what's going on with you by smelling your breath. I was relying. I was leaning on her. I wanted to be with Tara. As a sky grew darker, Carol dragged a cot into Tara's barn. I just didn't want to be separated from her. She laid the cot right next to Tara. She wasn't changed.
She was loose and my cot was right up against the railing and I laid down and covered up and I was really cold. I just wasn't doing well and I kept going over over in my mind. How could this horrible thing happen to us? How could this happen to us? It was the loss. I was so excited about seeing her raise her baby and me being involved and I just felt a great loss.
I was laying in the cot and she was standing as close as she could get and then she picked up some hay and she put it on top of my blanket and then she got some more and covered me and then she would take her trunk and put it over my face and just, you know, just centimeters off my nose, just breathing and just checking me out. Of course I was crying so she's touching my face and touching the tears and then finally she laid down right there next to me.
Her breathing got really kind of quiet and then no breathing which always used to make me nervous when she was little. Then there was one big breath and one exhale from her and then she started snoring and then the next thing I knew I must have fallen asleep. The two snore next to each other through the night and then the sun came up. Carol woke up to something wet on her face. There's moisture and there's breathing and it's warm.
The sensation was prickly little hairs on my nose, all around my nose, these prickly little hairs and moisture, even dripping on my face. She's standing over me her head, hovering over me. She has covered me all completely with hay. I was now seeing Tara in her fully developed adult self instead of seeing her as a child and I was proud of her in very different ways. I was always really proud of her. I was proud of what she could do and how smart she was but now I admired her.
I could take my projection off of her and see her for who she really, really is which allowed me to back off on any notion that I should be controlling her in any way. She should have full autonomy. The industry I was in circuses all about being the best in your field, being the best elephant trainer and that's all they talk about is they talk about the ones that are the best. It was what I thought I should strive for.
As I climbing this mountain and you get to the top and go at well wrong mountain. Carol took a hard right turn. We'll have to buy land to build her dream. An elephant sanctuary where Tara could move freely. Make friends with other elephants, live amongst lakes, ponds and streams, sunlight, rain and select whatever food she wanted.
Carol found a piece of land in Tennessee and built a sanctuary in just a few short years and when the sanctuary no longer seemed to be a place that served the elephant, she bought another piece of land and created a refuge for Tara there. The elephant refuge north America and out of Poulguss, Georgia. Little score for that piece was by Rinsal Goriot, loose produced by Shena Shewie.
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There's Nancy Lopez, Pat McLean Miller and a susman, Rinsal Goriot, John Faseo, Shena Shewie, Taylor Kott, Flowwiley, Bullwalsh, Rissa Dodge, David XMA and Regina Beliaco. And Mrs. Napa News, no way Mrs. Nitha, you could go to the zoo, have a look around the heart, think a cold drink and wonder, who really deserves to be on one side of the fence. He would still, still not be as far away from the news as this is, this is PRX.