If you had to eat a man or a dog first, where would you go?
Dog? I mean, if you're going to put me in that like Sophie's choice situation.
Yeah, yeah, me Jeff, Oh yeah me too.
You're you're thinking real hard about that, but but we're gonna let it go all right. Today I am joined by the hilarious inimitable Nick Kroll. Nick, Welcome to snap Foo. Thanks so much for coming on.
Thanks for having me ed, and thanks for using the word inimitable.
Yeah, it should be inimitatable.
Is that what it is.
That's what it means, That's what it means. It but it's inimitable, which is a weird one.
Yeah, and I'm so excited to be here on SNAE fou as well. We are.
I'm so glad to have you. Obviously, we have been friends a very long time. I was trying to trace back the origin of our friendship and I can't. I couldn't do it. Well.
I I have a memory that you don't have, which is we in New York when you were starting out, you would do these shows at clubs called like Bringer shows. You'd have to bring five to ten people to a comedy club, so that you could like get a tape made of you at a comedy club to prove that you had. And I did my first Bringer show ever at the Boston Comedy Club in New York City, ironically named and you were the host of that show. At this point, ed you were already flying high. You had
been in a Dale Earnhardt super Bowl commercial. You were you were big, you were you were big time. You had been in a national you had been in a network national TV commercial. You were a big deal.
That was commercial. Yeah, yeah, it was a big deal, Junior. That was my first like big acting booking of my life.
Yeah, trust me, it was a big deal for me to it just to be in the same room as someone who had been in the same room as They'll Earnhardt, Junior. But you were incredibly nice to me that day, as you have been every day since then. And it really it still tickles me that, like that we're friends and that I am doing you this massive favor of being on the podcast.
I mean, this is this is uh, you know, this is payback for your first stage to take your first stand up taping or whatever the hell was. Absolutely, before I get into the tragedy, the story the snap who that I am going to tell you. Do you have any major snaff who's from your life that you would like to share?
So I was away with my whole family. We were in I think Puerto Rico on a family vacation around I think, you know, like Christmas vacation, and so my dad thought a cool thing to do would be to organize a deep sea fishing trip for my mom's birthday. Because my dad knows nothing about what is my mom would enjoy, so they packed us, like the hotel packed us a bunch of like tuna sandwiches, because you know,
Puerto Rico is famous for its tuna fish sandwiches. My family ranged from about eight to fifteen, four of us my parents, and you're the youngest, right, I'm the youngest. Yeah, you're eight. I'm eight or nine years old. And we get on the boat. We're going out to the deep sea and the waves are horrible, like we later found out that a tanker had capsized that day in the Atlantic,
so the waves were massive. We were just getting hummeled and we all were sitting there and the entire family puked our tuna fish sandwiches out all over all over the place except for my dad, who just sat in
the captain's chair gripping like the chair turning. I'd never seen, you know when people say like, uh, he turned green, like I've never seen it really since before since, but my dad turned fully like like a shar truse, and all of us just absolutely rapped all over this boat and it was like happy birthday, mom.
This is this is perfect. And the best part is like a tuna fish sandish sandwich smells horrendous to begin with, fresh, like a fresh sandwich right out of the deli's like it. Oh, it's kind of a gross thing already, and then to eat it and then to regurgitate it, yeah, is just an unthinkable stench. It's not ideal. No, well, that's very tragic, and I'm very very sorry. But this is a perfect
lead in to our snapoo for today. I'm going to tell you the story of Ernest Shackleton's fateful expedition to Antarctica. Do you know much about this? To begin with?
I have heard of this, but I have no recall of it.
It is a fascinating and wild story. Are you ready to jump in? Nick Kroll?
I'm strapped into the Captain's share. The waves are big. I've finished my tuna sandwich and I'm ready to go.
All right, let's do it.
Let's do it.
I hope, I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. Let's start out by getting to know our protagonist, Ernest Shackleton. First off, can we talk about the name, because it is such an inherently badass name. I mean, he sounds like a like a seventies action movie star that should be played by Charles Bronson, or like the president's fixer. Get me Shackleton.
I agree, I mean, and the but then that, but then the first name being Ernest also speaks to like a sense of character inside of that.
There you go. I always thought Nick Kroll was kind of a badass name. Get me Nick Kroll, Get me Kroll?
Yeah yeah.
Aed Elms is like the guy peeling turnips on the porch.
Here.
Oh yeah, hey yeah, I yeah, but like i'd say, one of the top turnip tossers in the in the county.
Well thank you. Well, As as we will soon learn, Ernest Shackleton very much lived up to that badass name. Born in eighteen seventy four in Ireland. Shackleton moved to London at age ten, but the whole sitting in a classroom thing not so much for young Ernest. By the age sixteen, he bailed on formal education and just like set out to see because I guess that's what you did in the eighteen nineties when you had a short attention span and there was no adderall hadn't been invented yet.
Now Shackleton had a pretty striking appearance. I think we have a picture of him. Can we take a look here? Less I'm seeing less like Polar Adventurer and more junior high music teacher.
Uh huh, ed, Can I ask how many of the people that you have traced in this show look like they could be relatives of yours?
That's fair. He does look like my dad a little bit. He actually looks a lot like my grandfather. Yeah, I might be related to Ernest Jackleton. I gotta dig into this. I would not put it past you, all right, But to answer your question, it's a prerequisite we only talk about people who look vaguely like me or my relatives. So let's set the stage a little bit, get a
little historical context. Now, you might think that in the early nineteen hundreds, a hair brained scheme like crossing Antarctica would be a crazy outlier, like Elon Musk trying to go to Mars or me trying to take my kids on any ten minute hike. But actually you'd be wrong, because around this time, no less than ten different countries sent out seventeen major expeditions. In fact, Antarctica was so infested with explorers this period became known as the Heroic
Age of Antarctic exploration. I'm sad we missed that age, Nick.
I will say, I've been to Ushwa, which is in the southernmost tip of Argentina.
Oh very close, all right, which.
Was like less than five hundred miles from Antarctica. I could see Antarctica.
You could see it. Yeah, wow, Oh that's.
Cool and it was not hard at all. So whatever is about to happen? To Shackleton?
Like, no big deal, get a grip, bro Yeah all right, well, let's get into it. Ernie was on a lot of these early expeditions and even set some impressive records marching further south than anyone had before him. He was even knighted for some of his early exploration down there but then Norwegian explorer Rolled Amensen would become the first to
reach the South Pole in nineteen eleven. So Shackleton then set his sights on the next prize, which was to be the first person to cross the entire continent from to see. Now. I don't know how about you, Nick, but I'm I'm concerned about Shackleton's odds here. It's like the early nineteen hundreds. This is not an easy trek.
Ed. I have enough problems getting across town.
Okay, can we talk about the bumper to bumper or shall I say bow to stern traffic all around Antarctica. It is a doozy down there.
It's a doozy of a continent to cross. I will tell you that.
On December fifth, nineteen fourteen, Shackleton sets sail for Antarctica from South Georgia, which is a tiny British territory deep in the Southern Atlantic Ocean. His ship is the HMS Endurance, which is another badass name, if I may say. The plan was to establish a land base on the Wettell Sea coast and then just start sledding across the Antarctic. Now, let's keep in mind it is nineteen fourteen. You can't just run to ARII and like pick up some capeline
bass layers and a gortex shell. No, you are headed to Antarctica and all of your clothes are basically made out of like leather, wool, and wood. So it's it ain't comfy. I guess that is what I'm trying to say. What would you pack on this trip, Nick Kral? What would you bring?
I would bring my hypoallergenic pillow. I would bring my penguin du Lingo. Did you say penguin do a lingo? Yeah, if you got to talk to penguins. Antarctica famous for.
The language, so you can learn penguin language.
Yeah, so I can learn penguin worst.
I thought you actually had a penguin named Duo Lingo.
Yeah, I wish. So.
The crew of this expedition consists of twenty seven men. Actually it's twenty eight because there was a stowaway. There are sixty nine sled dogs and a single tomcat that they named missus Chippy. So yes, that is a male cat with a female name. Because Shackleton was evidently very progressive, any anyone like jumped to mind, like who you would want to bring on this. Who would be in your crew?
You're gonna fit have some people who know how to take care of dogs. You want some people who can read a you know, a compass, although I don't know what happens to your compass when you go to a pole. I wonder if it goes haywire when you go to a pole.
It's probably not super helpful down there. That's a good point. And that there, it's almost like celestial navigation down there. I think, oh, that's cool, all right, So they're often running on this expedition. Two days in they encountered a huge barrier of ice arounding Antarctica, which is usually there,
I gather, but this one was particularly bad. They were expecting to be able to sail all the way to land, but they didn't get there, and by the following month, on January eighteenth, the HMS Endurance got completely stuck in the ice. As one of the crew members, Thomas Ordley's put it, they were frozen like an almond in the middle of a chocolate bar, which I think, right, it's a kind of a weirdly yummy metaphor for a life threatening situation. Yeah, I would have gone with something a
little darker, maybe maybe an almond stuck in dark chocolate. Shackleton, Yeah, there you go, Shackleton, his men, all the dogs, and of course missus Chippy had no choice but to simply hunker down and wait out a very long winter winter in Antarctica, probably not real mellow, and just to make things a little more dire, on May first, the sun
fully vanished for four whole months. Now, Nick, I know you're a flat earther, but this is actually a crazy phenomenon due to the Earth's tilt, where in the North and South Poles at certain times of the year have either total sunlight or total blackout for months on end. So in the wintertime total blackout.
I am in a total blackout right now.
Absolutely, I've known you a long time, Like a good sixty percent of your day is blackout.
God, and I'm just following the celestial signs to get through the day. No, it just sounds like a nightmare to be in the dark going across the continent nobody has ever been to and trying to guide yourself, hoping that you're going in the right direction.
But also you're not even on land yet, like you're in the You're still in the ocean, just stuck on ice like that. That doesn't feel safe to be eaten in the now right? No, are you, Nick Kroll? Are you good in a crisis like if this, if you're in this situation, are you just like freaking out, breaking out in hives, like panicking, screaming at everybody? Are you like pitching in like staying optimistic.
I don't know if I'm good in a crisis, but I do not freak out. My blood pressure drops. I get very calm. I don't know if I'm effective or helpful, but I am definitely I don't like panic.
I've seen you in a crisis. I've actually I remember we were set to do some shows at the Telluride Comedy Festival, and we went to dinner ahead of time, and you were acting a little strange, and you got a little quiet at dinner, and that's when you told us that that your edibles were kicking in. You'd had some of that sweet Colorado edible and uh, and I started to panic. I was like, we got to do
these shows. We're we're improving together. Where you got you know, a lot of us are are counting on each other. You were so chill and you wrote it so beautifully. You were having fun, you were you got you got real giggly, but it was like it was definitely a lot more than you were expecting.
Yeah, it's just one of the last times I probably did edibles, because every time I'd ever done edibles, it's a massive snat foo.
It's just like you can't can't go well. So now by September, the pressure of the ice all around the HMS Endurance is getting even more intense because they're just these huge ice flows that are that are being pushed by the wind and the currents, and they're they're starting to crush the ship. And by October, as the ice constricted the ship more and more, it began to list over dramatically to one side and was even taking on water. So Shackleton orders everyone to abandon ship. They set up
camp on the ice. And here's a fun detail. They even made little dog a glues for the dogs, which they called dog glues.
Aw.
If you live in a winter climate, think about making a doglue, because it's it's unbelievably adorable.
Well, there is a dog blue housing shortage right now, of course, that I feel like we should address. Yeah, and I just want to talk. I want to be able to talk about that. Have this be a space where we can talk about that kind of stuff.
Let's do it now. Here's another cool weird detail is you might be wondering why how do we have a picture of the actual dog glue. Well, there was a photographer on this expedition and he his name was Frank Hurley, and it was his job to document everything. But they're just pictures of all this stuff we're talking about, and I would encourage our listeners to check them out because it's very cool. Okay, so they have shelter, but what are these guys eating. The crew is hunting seals and
penguins to feed themselves and the dogs. What do you think? Are you more of a seal or penguin guy?
I love frankly both. I find seals to be like just about the cutest.
It's hard to eat cute things. I think penguins are unbelievably cute.
Yeah, I think penguins are funny to me. I don't know if they're Yeah, I don't know how good the meat is on a penguin, You.
Know what I mean, It's not a delicacy. If all of this is not bad enough. Things are about to get way worse for Ernie Shacky and all his buddies. The endurance weg wedged in the ice hasn't sunk yet, but it's not looking good and they know that they need to lose as much weight as possible, so they begin unloading and discarding whatever they can sacrifice, books, bibles, personal belongings. Sadly, this also meant putting down some of the smaller dogs that they knew wouldn't survive, which must
have been really tough in those circumstances. And yes, even Missus Chippy was put down. Rip Missus Chippy. Yeah this is hard. I mean, they're in survival mode here. It's pretty it's pretty brutal. Then it happened on November twenty first, Shackleton and his crew watched as the endurance sank, and apparently Shackleton yelled out, she's going boys. I don't know if if that was like a sort of like a funny thing to say at the time, or like it
was through tears. But all I know is if my one mode of transportation out of certain death is just sinking before my eyes, I'm probably a little upset. I might have a little panic attack.
It would be a bad vibe. I think it's fair to.
Say pretty bad vibe. Now, obviously their game plan has now shifted dramatically. It's gone from let's make a heroic crossing of this continent to basically, let's just try to get the hell out of your life. And yeah, so basically they just start walking across this never ending ice flow towards land. I mean, what else are you gonna do? But they're not just walking. They're also hauling the lifeboats that they salvaged from the endurance, and they're using them
as sleds to carry their supplies. So, needless to say, this is very slow going. They only managed to walk seven miles in seven days. So Shackleton gives the order. He's like, this is hopeless. We got to just hunker down and wait for conditions to get better. Yeah, so they did. They set up camp again. Unfortunately, the ice drifted in their favor, and finally, on April seventh, Elephant
Island came into view on the horizon. Now it ain't Maui, but I'm pretty sure it was a lovely sight to see, right, it's land. Like they're just sighted to see some land at this point. But now their ice flow that they're riding on is starting to kind of break apart, and it's no longer safe. Also just terrifying, like they're in the Antarctic Ocean, for God's sake. So on April eleventh, nineteen sixteen, they're forced to pack up the boats and
launch for Elephant Island. Now, these are tiny little lifeboats. They're like twenty two feet long, and they're basically like big canoes, and they're in very high seas with waves crashing around them, and that water is a little bit chilly, right, probably one would like it's ice water. It's literally like I'm having a glass of ice water.
I love it at a restaurant. I don't necessarily want to go swim.
It ed cold plunging is is a delight when it is a choice. But these guys are just getting Yeah, these guys are getting just slammed by huge waves and freezing water. And also at this point a lot of them are suffering from sea sickness and dysentery. So imagine your sickness that you had on your family vacation, but add to that dysentery, and now you know that it ain't just seawater slashing around in those boats at this point.
Oh my god, I like to think i'd be one of the guys yanking on the oars getting us to Elton Island.
I think I don't.
I might be bald up on the floor in fetal position, but I don't see you that way.
Ed I think you're a You're a You're a you're a team player.
I appreciate that.
I mean when I was, when I was like losing my mind and edibles, all you did was poke me and make the fun of me. So we supported you. You did, you really genuinely did.
Okay, after six days and thirty miles of open ocean, they finally make landfall. Yes, they've been gone now for a year and a half and they're finally on solid ground. But don't party yet, because I have a little bit of bad news, which is that, yes, Elephant Island uninhabited, right, so you can't just check into it Hampton in and hit the Applebee's for a hot rack of ribs. This ordeal is far from over. So they're on solid ground,
which is which is great. And it's been a harrowing journey, like like they're basically heroes already, but there's so much more ahead. So Shackleton and his crew still need some serious help getting out of there. So after a few days recuperating and gorging on more of that delicious penguin jerky, yeah, Shackleton yeuh me, Shackleton and four other men once again
boarded one of those tiny little lifeboats. And it's just that this is they basically are like sending off just a tiny crew to go get help while the rest wait on Elfin Island. They board a tiny lifeboat named the James Cared and set sail for South Georgia Island. No big deal, it's only eight hundred miles.
Away, my god.
But alas, after sixteen brutal days again hot like incredibly high seas, like like crazy stormy winds, they make it. They make it to South Georgia.
Wow.
But nick, uh huh guess what? Oh and what they're on the wrong side of the island. Oh now they mean well, because I think because the currents and the wind the storms were so intense, they couldn't land actually at this little whaling state that they were aiming for. And they actually landed on the exact wrong side of the island. So now they're exhausted, starving, frozen, basically solid, and they have to climb over a mountain to get to this little whaling outpost. And guess what they did it?
They just did it. These guys are unstoppable. This is Ernest Shackleton and a few of his his top crew. They get all the way over the mountain and they descend into this little uh whaling out post, and the the Norwegian I think he's a Norwegian guy that kind of runs this place, and he's just like, this is impossible, Like humans can't just show up on South Georgia Island with like inexplicably and you.
Don't know Ernie, you know, you know Ernie.
Have you met Ernie? Obviously, this this guy is super hospitable, gives them a warm welcome. They rest up, they recuperate, but now of course they have to go back and rescue everyone still on Elephant Island. But it takes now, it takes a long time to get the resources together to do that, so it's another one hundred and twenty six days before they finally returned to Elephant Island on August thirtieth, nineteen sixteen. And rescued the remainder of the
crew and sailed back to civilization. They arrived in Chili six hundred and thirty eight days after their initial voyage started, and Nick, brace yourself. Every single member of the crew survived.
Its crazy There was obviously a very tragic loss of life with the dogs and Missus Chippy, but the crew, the human crew, all survived.
Did they eat the dogs?
I think that some of the dogs were consumed, But at that point you're like, hey, billy, if you die, we're eating you.
You know. Yeah, I think if you had to eat a man or a dog first, where would you go?
Dog? I mean, if you're gonna put me in that like Sophie's choice situation.
Yeah, yeah, me, oh yeah me too?
Yeah yeah for sure, Okay, for sure. Yeah really you're you're thinking real hard about that, but but we're gonna let it go. You're a you're a recreational cannibal.
Yeah, I'm a fine young cannible. I'm a fine middle aged cannibal.
So this is a this is a crazy story, and it's an interesting one in the snafu category because it obviously it's a failed mission and it becomes this terrible, terrible, awful tragedy, all of which make it a complete snaffoo, and yet it then kind of takes this positive turn in the end. So what's your call on this? Would you say it's an epic fail or an epic win?
Well, I think it speaks to the larger point of view you have on life, which is all Ernie Shackleton one of them last remaining great two point scorers because they had not and they had not put the three point line in. But Ernie Shackleton obviously was a motivated fella and was setting incredibly high standards and goals for himself. I'm going to cross all of Antarctica. He failed to do that, and that must be that must have been
quite disappointing. However, to basically go to years with a crew of twenty seven twenty eight men to serve have every one of them survive is a triumph of organization and leadership and adaptability, and he could. He was tough on himself, But I hope that Ernest was able to sort of see what a feat that that is to have brought everyonebody back.
It is largely considered a very heroic occurrence in among historians and it's funny because you know, the British explorer tradition is so like ego driven. It's sort of like it's one of those things where it's like, well, you put yourself in that situation. Yeah, this whole thing.
Was optional, but right, yeah, but that said, like, we do need people who push that envloge open, like push humanity forward with these incredible, daring explorations, and he's one of those people.
It went terribly wrong, but.
By Jove, which you have to imagine that was said so.
Much and by the way, it would be another fifty years before anyone crossed Antarctica, so he was way ahead of his time. Like it wasn't it wasn't actually accomplished for a long long time after that. There's more of the story on March fifth, twenty twenty two. This is only a few years ago. The HMS Endurance was discovered
one hundred and seven years later. Many said the ship would be impossible to find because the Wettell Sea is permanently covered in so much thick ice, but using lunar occultation notes, it's basically tracking the Moon's movements and the ship's astronomer or whatever or Navigate had kept really meticulous notes about the celestial bodies moving, and they had these
incredible notes. They were able to kind of like go back in time, and based on his notes, pinpoint the location where the Endurance had been stuck in the ice, and so that's where they searched, and lo and behold they found it. Now some called it the most pristine shipwreck they'd ever seen. Apparently, like in warm, warmer waters, there are these enzymes and different things that consume or kind of denigrate the wood over time, but none of that is in the wettll sea. It's just too cold.
So the shipwreck is in perfect condition. It's like, I think it's like two miles deep. And they could even read HMS Endurance on the back. And then this is fascinating. They found bottles of whiskey buried in the ice near Shackleton's wreck, and miraculously these remained liquid despite the minus twenty two degrees fahrenheit weather. How much would you pay for a bottle of Enduring year old?
Oh, I I'd pay. I'd pay a lot, like could I venmo him? Yeah, I'd pay apports of you know, like sixty bucks.
I would pay a shitload for that scotch. I'm not even it's probably not consumable. But but also I must say, if there's if there's scotch left behind this adventure, like I'm starting to question their priorities, right.
Like what were they doing leaving all that that scotch behind?
Yeah?
Come on, this is well.
You know, Shackleton had good scotch, like he was he was he was Sir Ernest Shackleton like, and he's like he had the good stuff.
Yeah, I mean this is well before Bush has no scotch left behind. But you have to imagine how they made it. I guess they were probably like, if we're going to make it for a year or two, like in the middle of literally in the middle of nowhere, alcohol is not going to help, Like this is only going to create discord amongst us, So maybe better to leave it behind, all right.
As for Ernest Shackleton, he passed away at the very not ripe young age of forty seven in nineteen twenty two from a heart attack during another Antarctic expedition. So he was not traumatized by this. He went back, he was like, give me more Antarctica. Researchers now say that he may have had a hole in his heart based on a lot of the symptoms that he was just making notes of in his journal, which is a congenital
heart defect that's not uncommon. Some say that the hole in his heart was just the grief over losing missus Chippy. Who can say that's true? Also, okay, and I love this. After a doctor asked him to take it easy, his reported last words were, you always want me to give up something. What do you want me to give up? Now? I guess you can take the Shackleton out of the voyage, but you can't take the voyager out of Shackleton. Indeed, Nick, that's our story. That is the story of Ernest Shackleton.
That is today's snafu. What have we learned anything? Any big takeaways? Yeah, let's see. You can preserve your body in a cold plunge for one hundred years.
Don't go to Antarctica. Just don't go, like, let it be, just let it be. Or if you do, make sure you go with Ernest Shackleton. Go with Ernie. Dogs are delicious if you need something to.
Eat, if you're starving and about to die. Yeah, all right, what about you?
Any any takeaways for you.
I love these this kind of survival story because it's just so inspiring and not not in a way that's like, oh, well,
what are my problems compared to that guy's problems. It's more like, if he could do that right, it makes me hopeful for like our for human potential, like all the things that we we can do and deal with, and that unfortunately, like TikTok and Instagram, is like slowly sapping out of us, like we're the more we the more we indulge in modern society, it feels like we're just sort of losing this metal that people like Shackleton and all of his men had.
I'm inspired. I'm inspired to go live more earnestly.
Nick, you inspire me on a daily thank you he inspire me.
You do?
Are you up to anything? Is there anything we can talk about and tell the world and fans and listeners about.
Yeah, I'm doing a journey to Antarctica.
I saw that the GoFundMe page your goal was fifteen hundred dollars. It doesn't seem adequate.
I know I have a Depending on when this comes out, the final season of Big Mouth, my animated show on Netflix, comes out yes in late spring. There's a movie that I made with Andrew Rynolds called I Don't Understand You that'll also be out late spring early summer.
Can't wait for that.
And a show that I produced and directed some of called Adults on FX that'll be out this spring. So fantastic whenever this stuff comes out. If you're not stuck on a boat in Antarctica, luckily it's not a problem because everything is melting. Umm, can go check out one of those things right on.
Nick. I adore you and I am so grateful to have you on. Ladies and gentlemen, Nick.
Kroll, Thanks Ed, I love you, buddy. Cheers, It's a pleasure. Cheers.
Snappho is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfoo Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Post production and creative support from Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino, Tory Smith, and Carl Nellis. Our consulting producer is Jess Hackle. Additional story editing from Carl Nellis.
Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and brand by The Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etoor, Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo, The Definitive Guide
to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook dot com. Thanks for listening, and see you next week.