There's a stuckness. Communication has lagged. People are spread too thin. They don't know how to get out of their own way. Those are the types of things that we solve, and it's not immediate. So these are companies that really recognize and individuals in companies that understand the power of taking the time, building some really good habits, and being able to leverage what's good without starting over. David Shriner-Cahn: Welcome to Smashing the Plateau.
We help consultants, coaches, entrepreneurs, and small business owners build their business after a long career as an employed professional. We believe you should be able to do what you love and get paid what you're worth, consistently. I'm your host, David Shriner-Cahn. Today on Smashing the Plateau, I'm speaking with the managing partner of Red Direction, Jess Dewell. In today's episode, you'll learn how to get out of your own way when communication is lagging and people are spread too thin.
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That's smashingtheplateau.com/circle. Now let's welcome, Jess Dewell. Jess charts courses for resilient, growth oriented companies. She is a consensus builder, culture advocate and operational executive, with more than two decades of business experience. Sometimes you simply require a little help to spark that business motor into a rip roaring mode of priority setting, problem solving and goal attainment to maximize effort.
Working closely with Jess, you learn to ask the right questions and think effectively on your feet. Jess is nationally recognized for her understanding that the interplay of constraints and growth are where achievement happens. Jess is a strategic business advisor and facilitator of the CEO Infusion Mastermind, Fast Track Your Business and producer of the Bold Business Podcast. Jess, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, David.
I am so glad to be here today with you and, I'm listening to the introduction of myself. And I'm always surprised when I hear it. I don't know if you get that way when you hear people read your bio. David Shriner-Cahn: Depends, whether I give them the short version or the long version. The shorter, the version, the less I'm surprised but, okay. Yeah. What surprised you about your introduction? Every once in a while that two decades thing catches me. I'm like, Ugh, it's actually been that.
And then I'm like, oh, and that's plus four now or something close on that front. And then, oh yeah, we do a lot. We do a lot at Red Direction is really what that was for me this morning, and I was a little proud. David Shriner-Cahn: You should be proud, a lot goes into our work and our lives, and there's nothing wrong with being proud of our accomplishments. Cheers. Cheers. Yes, David. David Shriner-Cahn: So that being said, what's one thing that you're super proud of.
Just one, David Shriner-Cahn: one to start okay. That's so if I were to just be anchored in this moment here, present with you. The thing that I am most proud of is, the clients that I have helped over the years. Because, when we talk about achievement, one of my specialties happens to be sharing the limelight with other people so that they can learn to shine, and then I can step away and they can stay in their own limelight.
They have their own light that they didn't even know they had, to lead their business to achieve their goals, to make the changes that they want to make in their life and their business. And that's pretty powerful because, sometimes it's scary to walk alone. And sometimes it's nice to have somebody who knows what's going on and has been there or can relate in some way. And so I, I am proud of that.
I am proud of being able to help people reach their goals and in the same process, in the same vein, then when they're reaching their goals, I'm achieving mine because I've helped them not need somebody like me anymore. David Shriner-Cahn: I mean to me, it feels a little bit like, like being a parent, when you see a client, particularly one that has gone through some really rough stuff or they were in a place where, and I know this has happened to me, I'm sure it's happened to you.
I'd love to hear some of your stories. I've had clients where I look at the situation they're in and I think. How the heck are we going to get past this? How can I help them get past this? and those are the ones that they're definitely not easy. They're often not quick to resolve. And then something happens and things turn around. I'm thinking about, in my case, two clients like this that were in real struggles personally, financially, it looked like.
the odds were against them succeeding as entrepreneurs. And again, in both of these cases, I'm going to say it was probably, I know for sure, it was more than two years of hard work to really put the pieces in place that have had, have resulted in game changing business where business is now, in both cases, financially successful. They have client work, that's really personally rewarding.
Their personal situation has improved in part because the money helps relieve some stress in your personal life. so it's, it's not such a terrible thing to make some more money so that you can afford things, that'll make your life easier. Absolutely. David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah. So I'd love to hear some of your stories of how you have really felt good about seeing your clients succeed. Sure. there are a couple that come to mind.
One is the CEO of a company who came to me and said, I can't grow no matter how hard I try. Every time we make the investment in people, something happens and, everything is wonky and we end up contracting again. And we started out that relationship with a one year contract. This is what we're going to do. This is when we're going to meet. And all of the work that we do at Red Direction is based in accountability.
So when I'm working with somebody, we have a system with which we're coming back to and on regular intervals, we're checking into these, into the work that needs to be done. And, are the people in the company that I'm working with, that could be one person that could be three people. Are they successfully completing what I call a present retreat. And once they can get that, to your point light bulbs turn on.
So for this particular company, during that year, it was, it usually is around month seven. People are like, I want instant change. And I'm like, sure. And they're how about three months? No 12, because we have to get out of our own way and we have to try all of the things and somebody has to be there as we're knocking our head against the wall, thinking we know what's going on, we just needed a little edge.
And that person that we brought in to help us in this consulting and coaching role could just push us over the edge. We really what we're doing, right David, is we're helping them look at things differently. We're helping them see the world in a view in a slightly different vein. it could be a different direction. It could be a different facet of a gem, whatever your favorite, idea or imagery could be. And it's about that month seven, that the first big breakthrough happens and all, and.
A big light bulb moment. If we are across the country, I could look the direction that the client is away from Kirkland, Washington, and I could see the sky light up, it, it, you feel it, that energy is there and it comes through. and once that first spark happens, you're right. There is sometimes a cascading effect and sometimes it's a release, so that a little bit more depth can be looked at for the problem that's at hand to continue to work forward.
And that's a client that after our initial consulting agreement for a year, what we end up doing is we're touching base quarterly and two to three times a year, we do strategic offsite, so that the work that they've been doing, can still be practiced. They're doing all of the work on their own. This is a great leadership team and they just want to make sure they don't have any more blind spots. They want to make sure they haven't left any accountability on the table.
And it's all baked in to where they're going and what they're doing. David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah. So is your role kind of a combination of strategic and operational or how do you describe it? Yes, it is very strategic and operational. So if a company knows where they want to go, we look at exactly where they're at, and the gap between where they're at and where they want to go. And then we start breaking down and understanding, what do you have? So here's the operational side.
And sometimes it's people and sometimes it's process. And usually it's a mix of both. It what's available? Where are the hangups? What do we see happening? And how do we take what's working to actually leverage that, operational growth forward that revenue growth forward, that personal development piece forward, which means then at that last one, that personal development piece, what ends up happening is all of us get better. All of us, we get better at communicating. We get better at listening.
We get better at understanding and remembering, oh, yeah, we set that goal. Oh yeah. That's where we're going in five years. Oh yeah. We made this initiative 18 months from now and the decisions I'm making today in this moment actually are affecting that when we can have that, awareness projected forward, I call that a true success. And that means a company is on their way. I can come in and facilitate instead of due strategy and operations. And then of course, add that piece back in.
When do you need a little bit more, make sure that the company has a voice, make sure that the CEO is not the good cop or the bad cop, but the person that is guiding something that a group of people have agreed to do. David Shriner-Cahn: Jess, is there an assumption that there is good product market fit for what the company. Not always. I would say, by the time companies come and work with me, David, they know how to keep the lights on and they've hit a growth plateau.
So to the point of product market fit, that's already been figured out for the most part. If they have been trying to break into a new market there's product market fit for the, either the market or the product that they're trying to bring to the market, and there can be work done in that. But for the most part, we're breaking through the growth plateau and leveraging what they've already done and what they've already figured out.
David Shriner-Cahn: And the way you run a company that may be, it's size today and the way you would run it, if it's double the size or five times the size or 10 times, the size can be quite different. Correct. Oh, and you know that, I know, you know that David Shriner-Cahn: yeah. I've seen this happen many times. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And we have to get out of our own way. And sometimes we have, even with our best interests, we're in our own way. And we're accidentally in other people's way too.
David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah. It's usually both. Yeah. Just tell me a little bit about your own career and how you ended up in this particular kind of role. So, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, David. I have a lot to do, and I have a lot to figure out and I have a lot to try. So my first company, I was one of four owners. We ended up selling two years after the company had started and we sold for a lot of money to a publicly traded company. And I had just dropped outta college.
I was 21 and here I was, needing to obtain an earn out and grow this company to get all of the money, which by the way we did. So I'll say yay to that. David Shriner-Cahn: Wait, so this was a company that, that you started while you were in college, correct. Okay. This is a company started while I was in college. We ended up dropping out and moving from Kansas to Seattle to take it full time, To be all in full time. And then a company in Minnesota bought us.
And what I thought was the most fabulous opportunity. And in hindsight, the greatest gift, even though it was really crunchy during that time was this concept of growth. And I found out the things that I actually do naturally were the things that helped us achieve that are now, which was, we had to look. Okay. we had product market fit. We were attractive, we got acquired.
So how do we grow what we have, because we really didn't have the time or the energy and definitely not the margin to get the earn out plus. So grow the company through, through new product, we had to leverage our existing product. And I was like, how do we do. And I just went to the clients and I looked at them and I grouped them and I said, Hey, the best. And we know this, right? This was something, this is, existing clients are always more profitable than acquiring new clients.
So I looked at that and I said, who are my tier three companies? And what would it, what do they need to be solid tier threes and maybe get, a certain percentage of them, up into tier two. And then I did the same thing for our tier two clients. How do I get these tier two clients, super solid and growing. And then maybe we get another tier one client out of that. And that was my focus and that is what we worked on.
And so we made tier three companies and by the way, this was an eCommerce company. So this was when eCommerce was brand new. And Nobody was really talking about how e-commerce it was like a bolt-on piece of a business, just like some people still look at their websites, sadly as bolt-on pieces to their businesses. It was that time. And my job was to make, help them think differently about it and integrate it from the inside instead of have it have e-commerce being bolted on.
And that was the secret to our success at that time. David Shriner-Cahn: So from that point for, so you were 21 and you sold a company, you got some cash. Yep. And did you go back to school? Eventually. I worked for the acquiring company for a long time. I did, I was, I not only ran, the company that I started with the three other people we were acquiring, I was part of the acquiring team. And we would acquire companies like mine.
And so I ran an entire portfolio of companies that were separate, but exactly the same underneath just different technologies. And so we were looking at that growth model and continuing to leverage that over the course of time. And then, yeah, I did. I had this calling back. I had made a commitment to myself to go to college. Neither of my parents graduated from college and, it was a big deal to me.
So I started college in 1996 and I finished college in 2006 So there was a point in time that it made sense to start having that conversation. And the conversation was, Ooh, I'm so excited. I'm going to instead of partly give my attention to school and do what I said I was going to do for myself and keep that particular promise to myself, I totally went all in and said, okay, I'm done here, I'm going to go back to school. David Shriner-Cahn: So that's what, that's another decade. I know.
the first that's exactly right. Oh, I love it. David Shriner-Cahn: So you became an expert in how to grow companies from the very beginning, because that really, that you said that was your focus in your first company was growth. That's right. Yeah. Was growth that's right. And growth through communication and growth through listening to be able to create or prioritize the solutions and the improvements to our product, that would drive the growth of our customers.
So it wasn't just, how does this company that I'm running grow it's was a true, layered on, we need to grow and want to grow. And my approach was very much well. So how do we listen to our customers and how do we, how are they looking to grow and how can we really help them with our improvements, feature additions, and prioritizing what we put, where in the product. David Shriner-Cahn: And now today you're with Red Direction. Correct. That's right. So I left there quite a while ago.
I did some consulting work in between and as just a consultant. And now what we did is we've taken all of the skills and we have packaged up a few offerings, like the podcast, in the Fast Track Your Business Program, like talking with companies and hearing what's going on and creating business management reports like doing this one-on-one consulting that it does have a coaching element, but it is small because accountability is sometimes. I'm not going to help you explore anymore.
You have enough to make a decision. So I'm going to hold the space for you to make the decision. And recognizing that time is usually on our side until you milk it a little too much. And then there's that the diminishing return at which point in time that diminishing return is reached. I'll be the first to say, David. It's time. I know it's hard. It's you're not going to like it. Maybe you can like it, and it doesn't have to be hard. David Shriner-Cahn: Jess, who's your ideal client?
A company who is at a growth plateau, who recognizes that the core leadership team, it might be an individual. It might be co-founders. It might be a small management team of five to 10, and there's a stuckness. Communication has lacked. People are spread too thin. They don't know how to get out of their own way. Those are the types of things that we solve, and it's not immediate.
So these are companies that really recognize, and individuals in companies that understand the power of taking the time, building some really good habits and being able to leverage what's good without starting over. David Shriner-Cahn: Is there a particular industry or set of industries, that you tend to focus on or is this very industry agnostic? I have worked in many industries and I am partial to technology and services businesses because that's of course, where I
came from, Technology and being that eCommerce , . So I have a, an extreme depth and an excitement about that. However, I also work with retail and, electricians and plumbers. And it could be individuals that are ready to that have this. And they're like, oh, okay, so I have to go from whatever I have now, we have to structure differently to be able to grow. And so the key is, I can keep the lights on. I don't have time and I want more time.
And I don't want to burn out or I'm already burning out ,and I'm willing to do, I'm willing to be open to the hard. David Shriner-Cahn: Okay, that makes sense. Can we talk a little bit about what it takes to be successful as a consultant in a role like yours? Yeah. Whether you're solo as a consultant or whether you're part of a conglomerate of, either a small team or even a much bigger organization yeah. Cause that's a different role than the kind of clients that you have. That's correct.
So we're talking about us now. How does somebody know who we are, right? Yeah. Yeah. I want you to start, where do you, or where do you want us to start? David Shriner-Cahn: Let's actually start from the perspective of someone who has developed expertise over a long career as an employee and then becomes a consultant. Yeah, but that's a lot of people in our audience. Yes. David Shriner-Cahn: They work for, I would say 20, 25 years, sometimes 30, 35.
And they're mid to high level inside organizations. They're really good at what they do. Yeah. David Shriner-Cahn: And then they step out either voluntarily or they get pushed out. Yeah. And it's okay, I'm tired of fitting into somebody else's structure. I know what I'm good. I know the kinds of clients I want to work with. I know how I can help them, but I've never run a business before. Oh, okay. here's the scoop. The first thing I would say is and this, by the way, this is true.
We do this, I do this every in fact, as we're recording on a Monday, usually Monday's I have dedicated, they are solely work days and they're work days internally. And I, these are my present retreat days. I mentioned that earlier, and here's what my present retreat is. And I suggest every business owner solo or every person who's responsible for finding business, keeping business, growing business, and delivering on that business to do this type of a program. It might not be all day.
You might not depending on what your role is, and depending on what you've got going on, it might not be all day, but it. Probably ought to be at least a couple of hours. And that's where I started and it's well, what am I doing? So I already have goals in my role, in my new business. I already have goals. I also know what I want out of this. So I have my immediate goals and I have this vision of what I want this consulting to look like. And People always worry about the process first.
And I'm like, yeah, there are certain things you have to have that you have to check those boxes, what's what matters more. And what helps us even more is when we take the time to work on our business, which is separate from, in our business. So on Mondays, it's all about Red Direction. What are our products doing? How are we doing in our marketing strategies? What is our return so far? Do we have what we need? What are the priorities that need to be made?
What are the new opportunities that have come up? And that is the day that all of that is reflected on assessed and any adjustments or new priorities are set on those days. And the rest of the week, Tuesday through Friday or whatever days you're working.
If you take your vacation in the middle of the week, does, or your vacation, your, I always take a vacation, which happens to be one or two days a week, it could just be your days off, whatever days off you have around that, your work days, you get to be in the business. You get to be totally responsive because when you take that time and you're anchored, all you have to do then is in the business. You'll go, Ooh. We just talked about that. It fits it does not fit, oh, this might be new.
Or I don't know if it fits. That is a key, you set it aside and you wait until your next present retreat time, and then you get to include it into your process so that you know what you're working on now. Your shiny object syndrome is reduced and. that the actions that you're taking in the next week align to where you want to be in three months, 12 months, 18 months. And that is to me the biggest key, because it'll also say, if these are my goals, here's when I need to add a process.
Sometimes, I have a client who just sold their business and they are shifting gears in, into a new business. And they went from having a team and being part of leading an organization to being an individual again. And that's where they're starting from. And they were like, we have to have all these things and I'm going to have six months of all these processes.
I said, you could, I asked a few questions, but the point being, you don't need to know the questions you need to know what the outcome was. Really you need your email, you need a website and you need a way to be able to communicate. And at which point in time, you have so many clients, you need to schedule things, get a schedule. At which point in time, you're spending too much time manually doing invoices, get invoicing software.
That's the kind of thing that I think that we overlook and that can slow down the road to our success and present retreats, help that we'll know. David Shriner-Cahn: And you recommend doing this once a week? Once a week, I started out at two hours. Four hours is a good sweet spot for most people and I'm at six. And because I usually take a break and part of it would be eight. I take an extra long walk, typically on Monday's, and I do end up having a little bit of busy work that comes from it.
So I try and have the first part of that little bit of busy work so I can free my head and then I can spend the whole rest of the day, in the strategy. In the, not only talking about and figuring out how to talk about our strategy so I can talk to the rest of the team about it, also how I need to show up and how do I want to say things?
So I know how to prioritize the work that needs to be done for myself and set the goals so that other people can decide the work that they need to do for themselves. David Shriner-Cahn: I love that. Jess, we've covered a lot of territory in a short amount of time. Oh, I know. David Shriner-Cahn: If somebody wants to go deeper with anything we've discussed, or maybe you have a resource that you'd like to mention in particular, where would be the best place for them to go.
Sure. If you just want to say hi or ask a question, social media is great. I love LinkedIn. You can reach me directly through the messenger there. You can also come to the RedDirection.com website and use the contact form and, it'll get to me fairly quickly through our process. I did come prepared. One of the things that we do is we talk to businesses about what's going on in their world and we do a report once a year. And so our 2022 report is all about business preparedness.
And we look at business preparedness from four directions, we're Red Direction, we talk about stuff like that. And. There's a report that could be downloaded. So you could see what happened from the end of 2021 and how we set up what we saw happening for and to achieve success and to stay focused for 2022. And if you want to take a look and see what that's all about, please do. And I know you have the link to the landing page for that.
It's a fun read and it helps us think about things a little differently. So whether we're one person, whether we're a small team, whether we're part of a larger organization, it's one of those things, when you hear, what you're, and especially our audience that we're talking to here, David, when people understand what seems to be on our client's minds, and how they're showing up, it allows us to shape how we serve them and how we speak to them to get them to their success that much quicker.
David Shriner-Cahn: I love that, and we will include all these links in the show notes. So Jess, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today on Smashing the Plateau and shareing your story and your insights. My guest today has been the managing partner of Red Direction, Jess Dewell. Thank you Jess for joining us.
Thank you. David Shriner-Cahn: When you visit the Smashing the Plateau website at smashingtheplateau.com, you'll find a summary of each episode, along with the links we mention on the show. On today's episode with Jess Dewell, we learned how to get out of your own way when communication is lagging and people are spread too thin. How do you feel about your business building progress?
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Learn more at smashingtheplateau.com, where we have additional resources to help consultants, coaches, and entrepreneurs build their business after a long career as an employed professional. We believe you should be able to do what you love and get paid what you're worth, consistently. I'm David Shriner-Cahn. Thank you for taking the time to listen to our show. I'll see you on our next episode.