I think the process and the core thing that worked to turn it into something that really, other people wanted was that I listened. Like external information is better than my like internal information. Yes, I'm the expert at this. I know what to do here, but to know what sells, you just gotta listen and you gotta put content out and iterate. Iteration is put it out, listen to the feedback and then actually do it. Change it, position it, tweak it, edit it, recontextualize it.
David Shriner-Cahn: Welcome to Smashing The Plateau. We help consultants, coaches, entrepreneurs, and small business owners build their business after a long career as an employed professional. We believe you should be able to do what you love and get paid what you're worth, consistently. I'm your host David Shriner-Cahn. Today on Smashing the Plateau, I'm speaking with the owner of Better Sheets, Andrew Kamphey.
In today's episode, you'll learn the very simple process that Andrew used to find his Google Sheets niche. Stay with us to hear all the details. Do you struggle to take consistent action on things like working to find your niche? How do you feel about your business building progress? Would you like to be part of a structured, supportive process to help you implement ideas that you know will help you move the needle toward your goals.
As a member of the Smashing the Plateau Community, you'll have access to a structured process for growth. You'll also be a member of a community that's built to be a safe, caring place where inclusive, direct, active and empowering conversations are welcome. Inside the Smashing the Plateau Community, you'll find a range of tools and resources to support you as an entrepreneur, access to experts and answers to your burning questions.
If you're committed to getting your consulting, coaching, or small business to grow on your own terms so that you can deliver great results to your ideal clients while supporting the lifestyle you want, and you don't want to do it alone, apply to become a member of the Smashing the Plateau Community. Learn more at smashingtheplateau.com. Now let's welcome Andrew Kamphey. He is a Google Sheets wizard, Andrew. Welcome to the show. Hi David, thank you for having me.
David Shriner-Cahn: Google Sheets wizard is pretty cool. Tell me a little bit about your career, because I know you didn't study Google Sheets in school and you didn't wake up one day and become a wizard. There was a little bit of a process, so I'd love to start with your story. Yeah, I didn't go on a lifelong apprenticeship for wizardry. Merlin's been dead for a while, if he ever existed begin with, and he even wasn't a wizard of the spreadsheets.
so the wizarding didn't come for many years and was learned through the hard process of Googling stuff every single day for five years. Yeah. So tell me about the real backstory. Like where'd you start in your career, what did you study and how did it lead to Google Sheets? Yeah, in college, I studied theater, which is not really, you can't really connect that very quickly with working in business and Google Sheets. but after, this degree.
And after I left college, I ended up in Chicago and I worked as a minimum wage Santa. I literally was paid the least amount they could pay me. I was working downtown Chicago, Macy's. If anyone is listening to this in Chicago, it was the old Marshall Fields building over in the back corner of Cozy Cloud Cottage. I did work for one day, literally as Santa, in Daley Plaza, if anyone from Chicago is listening to this, they're like freaking out that these are like actual places from Chicago.
They're like, oh my God, I've been there. I've taken my kids and sat on Santa's lap. And I was like, yeah, one day out of the last, like 20 years, I've, worked Daley Plaza. And the reason I was working as a Santa was I was actually waiting in Chicago, working my way through living, and ended up getting a call to work on a cruise ship. I applied for a cruise ship job as a videographer ended up not getting that, but getting a role on ships as a theater tech.
So I was as stage staff inside the theater on ships, which whisked me away back to Florida. I'm from Florida. I went to Chicago, then back to Florida to work on cruise ships for five years. And while I was on cruise ships, I realized like the job I was doing as stage staff was a pretty rugged life. And I really wanted to do film and video. I originally even went to college to do film and video, but we didn't have a film degree.
I ended up doing this third best one, which is theater, other than film. Wanted to do directing ended up on ships doing videography. And while I was in the broadcast sort of world on ships, I got another job there where I was doing digital content on the ship where this is 80 touch screens. And now probably, years later, every cruise ship has these touchscreens around the ship, but at the time they were literally installing them.
I was like the third person ever in this role of running these digital screens. And I had to learn Excel and they were all of the content was run on Excel documents and I was really lazy and I just wanted to not work with like other people to get that data in. And I, and there was all this data that came, keep coming in every day of events and this and that. And I was like, I really don't wanna have to update these every single day, like hundreds of little pieces of data.
So I learned Excel VBA, which is a little bit of an automation on top of Excel, literally by just like Googling it and figuring out what was, what I needed to do. And that translated, after I left ships. I was like, I'm gonna go work in LA. I'm gonna live the life of like film TV. I had shot a documentary. I had shot a short film on ships when I got to LA, nobody cared. Not a single person cared about my five years on ships. They didn't understand what was going on ships like that.
We were running a lot of different things. I also learned avid editing. I was a video editor, videographer, filmmaker, and in LA, if you're everything, you're nothing. You gotta be specialized in something. And so it was very hard for a year and a half, very difficult, but got a full-time job at a startup TV network where I worked as a PA, I was literally the lowest person on the totem pole. And I happened to get very interesting advice.
David Shriner-Cahn: Did your ability to be able to do so many different things, help with the startup? Not really the ability to do it. Many things just gave me the confidence that I could do anything that I could learn, anything on the way. Like PA, a production assistant sort of just does what is needed, not necessarily with any skills or involved and, I knew, like I had to just get a lot of experience in LA to see which way I wanted to go. I knew editing.
So I was like, do, should I be editing? I got a couple jobs as an editor. And I was like, I don't wanna do this. This is horrible work, like logging and stuff. It gave me the breadth of knowing what I wanted and what I didn't want. I got very lucky. I was working for a year and a half in LA, ended up getting some good jobs, but like at the worst, in the worst times I was like working at Universal Studios. I like worked for minimum wage again, and like People at the Minion ride.
I was directing ushering people at the Minion ride at Universal studios. It was like, it was a dark time for a year and a half after working on cruise ships. But I got this job and the one piece of advice that helped me do the next thing that I did was that someone recommend not recommended, but strongly suggested if you ever get a job in LA, be the first one in the office and be the last one to leave the office.
When I got this advice, I was like, oh yeah, just work hard and work longer than everybody else. That's the key. And they're like, no, your job, when you get a job in LA, in Hollywood, your job is to get another job and the person who's gonna get you, that job works where you're working and you don't know which person is gonna be either the people that come in early, or the people that come in late. It's one of those two, but you don't know who it.
And so you have to be the first one in the office before everyone. And then the last one in the office before every, after everyone leaves. And that way you will get another job in LA. I was like, oh, really, I didn't believe this. David Shriner-Cahn: And did you do that, Andrew? I did that , when I got this job, I was the first one in the office and the last one to leave. And I was also like scared of LA traffic at that point. I wasn't used to a commute.
I was used to like working on ships where the longest commute is like 30 seconds or a minute, if you are slow up the stairs. And so what ended up happening was truly like a lightning strike, like catching lightning in a bottle. I was there early and there late and the CEO stayed late every single day. And there was also one other person at this startup TV network who, stayed there later. And it was someone who worked there far longer than I did, like six months before me they started.
And they complained a lot. And they complained about a Google Sheet that they were using, that they had to give to, the other people in the office to use. And they're like, oh, they're all messing it up. And I kept hearing these complaints day after day. And I was like, I wonder if there's a solution to this. Like these little ticky tacky problems that this seems like a human problem. oh, you're sharing the sheet with many people. They don't know how to use it.
They're using it in a different way. But what if like the way you wanted to use it was set in the sheet from the beginning. And so I learned in two weeks I learned Google Script because I had the experience of Excel, VBA. I knew that, Google Script existed, but I didn't know how to use it. In two weeks, it's took me two weeks to write one line of code, like one little, one thing that happened in the sheet.
when someone edited the sheet, basically it moved a row of information from one tab to another tab based on what the person did. That's it, that's the only thing it did. And I, it took me two weeks to learn that and I showed it to my boss was like, hey, I think like this could be helpful. do you want to use this? They're like, we need to use this right away.
And then two months later after doing that a bunch of times, and still staying in the office and adding and helping the CEO took me out to the balcony was like, you need to do this more. And the other stuff you need to do less. So we're promoting you to this other position. Tell me what your role is title is. I was like what? I literally had to make up a title for myself. And that's how I learned Google Sheets and Google Script at the very beginning.
David Shriner-Cahn: And how did you transition from the, this particular job to having a business of your own, that was focused on Google Sheets. So the next four years is a whirlwind. All in Sheets, basically because I was in the office and listening to all these problems and then solving them pretty quickly with Google Sheets and Google Script. The entire company was run on Google Sheets. Everything was done in Google Sheets from basic CRM, that did license, we did licensing of YouTube videos.
We did downloading and, scraping of YouTube channels. And we were putting a lot of data into sheets and then production was using, I created special sheets for sort of each stage of production from shooting video to logging video, to editing video. Everybody was using Google Sheets. And literally every single day I was Googling like how to do so I was trying to work one step ahead of everybody else and then relate that back to everyone else. Like here's how to do this.
Here's how to do that and fixing it and adding to it. And I kept doing different things. So it was all one startup, but we kept doing different things like we did influencer marketing. And so I built a model for influencer marketing inside of Google Sheets that powered our campaigns. And I really loved influencer marketing. I really liked the idea of it.
I was also running like Twitter accounts and like doing my own influencing and, creator stuff on the side and ended up actually quitting that job and going off on my own to run a newsletter that I served while I was there as a side project, I ran a newsletter. Influence Weekly. That was doing pretty well, was making me consistent money. I started traveling, I worked remotely and so I quit my job and I used Google Sheets to power the newsletter.
And ended up like not making an, I made a good amount of money for a remote work, but not really enough to thrive like enough to survive, but not enough to thrive. And I kept building like SAS products and like trying to fi trying to learn to code. I loved Google's Script, but I wanted to like really code web apps. And I had co-founders to try to do SAS companies and everything failed. And after I quit my job. For a year and a half, it was horrible and terrible.
I don't think I made a dollar in 2019, then 2020 came around and the world was stuck. I'm stuck inside of my apartment and something in the back of my mind kept, I kept remembering my co-founder that of the company that I was trying to run. And we were trying to work on this SAS product. Literally said your Google Sheets look better than everyone else's I've never seen Google Sheets like this.
We used Google Sheets to pick a name for our company that I created this like ranking and rating system for, so we could vote on different aspects of oh domains. And he's I've never seen anything like this. And we were working on this SAS product and it was just taking so long to create. I had been so used to working Google Sheets fast and giving it to someone to use right away.
And so on April, like 2nd 2020, I decided I was gonna, I'm gonna launch something in 24 hours, no matter what, like I'm gonna find a project to do now, and launch it. It's gonna be a side project cuz I'm working on other things. I need it to be something that I can add to, but it sells itself. It not, it's not connected to me my time and money. It's not consulting, it's not coaching. It's like I need to launch a product. And so it was Google Sheets and I started bettersheets.co.
I started with four videos for free and four videos behind a paywall. And I didn't want to charge a monthly fee so that I wouldn't be on the hook to keep adding every month. I was like, if I, if my SaaS product goes well, I want this to remain a side project. So it was one payment for lifetime access. It was $30 when I launched it and I think it took me like three days to get one customer and then two weeks to get another few. It did not do very well in the first month.
David Shriner-Cahn: How did you have the perseverance to stick it through, long enough to start to get traction. So again, this is total luck. I've known App Sumo, and I had bought one product like in 2015. So like BrainFM, which is like binaural sounds to work to, I bought that in like 2015, I was on App Sumo. I was on like all the email lists for App Sumo. And they sent out an email of we're looking for a product from Sumo-lings to feature.
Like it's the first time we're asking Sumo-lings for a product and we'll feature it. And I filled out a Google form, this was late April. So two or three weeks, three or four weeks after I started bettersheets.co I had seven to like th 13 sales. I think by that, I think I had seven sales by that time, but I had videos. I had a payment page. I had all the things that looked like a product. I applied to this thing. I didn't know what it was. Apparently. 700 people applied the next week.
They send me an email, said you're in the top 10. I was like, great. And then I thought it was a mistake. I literally thought it was a mistake. When I, when they replied to me in the email, like they were you know, how, when you reply to an email, it shows you the thread in the email. Yeah. It showed someone else's product. It was like some other product. They were like, you're in the top 10, but it was someone else's product in the email. They were emailing me.
And I was like, I don't, are you correct? I'm sorry. I think this is a mistake. I don't know if I really got in the top 10. They're like, no, we want the Google Sheets thing, yes, you, we want, I'm like, okay, great. The next week. Okay. You won. I was like, okay, great. Oh my God. I didn't do anything. Like it wasn't a second, like interview or. And so in early May, they featured my product on App Sumo. It's now called the App Sumo Marketplace. At the time it didn't have a name.
It was just like App Sumo is sharing this Sumo-lings product. In the first couple days I think it made like 50, 60 sales a day. I got like a hundred sales in the first month there. So it was the second month for me. And over the course of the next few months, I got like a thousand sales, which I actually had to do, which the thing that I would recommend never to do now, after the fact I had started it at $30. And because app Sumo was like a deal site. I what went down to $19.
So if a thousand people bought it and I made $19,000, which at the time I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. I had started other products and apps and stuff and made like $200 in six months. And now I made like revenue wise, $19,000 through this marketplace. It worked perfectly, I could now produce the videos on my own, put them in the product and people were coming and getting it. It was asynchronous. It was perfect.. David Shriner-Cahn: So fit what you wanted for your lifestyle?
Yeah. David Shriner-Cahn: In terms of the business model. Absolutely. I set it up thinking it was a side project at the time, knowing that if I wanted to add to it, I could, but I didn't have to, what you're buying is the thing that exists. And then with more and more customers, I got a little freaked out. I was like, I don't know if I can handle this.
but over months and weeks and months, as I went through that process, I realized oh, I could handle like customer service in this particular case because of the way that I'm sharing tips and tricks on Google Sheets. And also how to use Google Sheets in a unique way. I didn't know that I, what I was doing was strange and different until someone told me your Google Sheets look different than other people's.
And then I was then I'm sharing, oh, this is what's different about these sheets than what you're normally doing. It took that outside, external influence to give me the confidence, to do it and find that, but then not just dozens of people. So the first person who bought it, Carlos is his name. I'll never forget him. The first day. He, the first day he bought it, there were only four videos behind the pay wall. He sent me an a before and after picture of his Google Sheets.
He's like my Google Sheet looked like this. And now it looks like this. And I was like, oh my God, this is the perfect marketing material. this is a success. The first customer is a success story. David Shriner-Cahn: It's great testimonial. So Andrew, here's the question I think is often very puzzling for consultants that have deep expertise in a particular area. You like looking back.
Now that you've shared this whole chronology of your story, looking back, it's pretty easy to see how to follow the dots that lead to you, having a financially successful business with a very narrow offering. What advice would you have for consultants that have some. deep bench of experience that covers decades, about how to take their experience and identify a niche that is likely to lead to a financially successful offering.
One thing I would like to note is that if you have, I didn't have, 20 or 30 years of experience in Google Sheets, I had five years. But all of these numbers, you just add zeros to the end, right? If you have, if I had five years, you have 10 years, 20 years experience, I priced my product at $30. Just price it at 300 and it's all the same.
I think the process and the core thing that worked to turn it into something that really other people wanted was that I listened like external information is better than my like internal information. yes, I'm the expert at this. I know what to do here. But to know what sells you just gotta listen and you gotta put content out and inerate Iteration is put it out, listen to the feedback and then actually do it, change it, position it, tweak it, edit it, recontextualize it.
And I've been going through this for the last two years. I've done Better Sheets now for two years to get it to the point of someone bought, it was one thing, but to get it to now 3000 members, 100K in revenue total in two years, what I did after the first person is every single person who asked a question, my response for the first year was a video that everybody could get.
So this iteration process increased 1000 times, not just oh, I can do 10 times more like every single customer that had one question, I answered it. And then everybody saw the answer. I put out that video as, members can see it. So then I was getting double the iteration. I was saying, okay, you're asking this question. Now I know what questions to answer. I'm answering this question, but then I'm seeing how many people are viewing this. How many people are commenting on this?
What other questions do other people have? If you go through some of the videos that have like extra questions after the video is done. So after I've solved this problem, there's now more question. And you get more videos and I put more videos into it. So that's how now, after two years, it's almost to 200 videos, 180 videos, but really what happened I did a little wrong thing I saw that was working.
And then I got I don't know if it's lazy or not, but I started answering questions more succinctly and quickly to that person. So I actually ended up making more than 500 videos using loom and using the technology. I got very comfortable. Popping up a screenshare and answering the question and sending it to them. And they got a real person. it was very visceral and they got the answer. They got me telling them the answer in the time period. And I ended up making yeah, over 500 videos total.
So that iteration process happens so fast. David Shriner-Cahn: But the the core process is act, listen, analyze iterate, act, listen, analyze, iterate, and just keep doing that over and over again. And if you're at, if you're analysis, people might get stuck in that particular process on the analysis part, okay, what do I think about don't think about anything. Just do the next thing. if you are the expert, if you've been doing it 10, 20 years, your intuition is so strong.
You're gonna get so many inputs, but really the total outcome is gonna be the input. Exactly. As you said, take the input, iterate on it and put it out again, put the edits out, put the tweaks out, put the additions out updates. I think people will get stuck on the analysis. Like how do I determine if something's working or not, your intuition will tell you. Or someone else will tell you, David Shriner-Cahn: which is where the listening comes in. Yeah, I didn't know. I was good at Google Sheets.
I had no idea. There was yes, someone was paying me to degree. David Shriner-Cahn: Other people told you, yeah. Andrew, for somebody who wants to check out what you've done or access any of this wealth of information that you have amassed and that you offer, where would be the best place for them to go. Yeah. Number one, best place to go is bettersheets.co thats .co. That's the best place to start and see can get a free membership there. And see some videos and see, feel like what they do.
David Shriner-Cahn: My guest today has been Google Sheets, wizard, Andrew Kamphey. Andrew, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today and share your entire story. I think it's been great. And, for anybody who's listening, check out Andrew's stuff. Andrew. Thanks again. Thank you, David. It's a pleasure David Shriner-Cahn: When you visit the Smashing the Plateau website at smashingtheplateau.com, you'll find a summary of each episode, along with the links we mentioned on the show.
On today's episode with Andrew Kamphey, we learned the very simple process Andrew used to find his Google Sheets niche. Do you struggle to take consistent action on things like working to find your niche? How do you feel about your business building progress? Would you like to be part of a structured, supportive process to help you implement ideas that you know will help you move the needle toward your goals.
As a member of the Smashing the Plateau Community, you'll have access to a structured process for growth. You'll also be a member of a community that is built to be a safe, caring place where inclusive, direct, active, and empowering conversations are welcome. Inside the Smashing the Plateau Community, you'll find a range of tools and resources to support you as an entrepreneur, access to experts and answers to your burning question.
If you are committed to getting your consulting, coaching or small business to grow on your own terms so that you can deliver great results to your ideal clients while supporting the lifestyle you want, and you don't want to do it alone, apply to become a member of the Smashing the Plateau Community. Learn more at smashingtheplateau.com, where we have additional resources to help consultants, coaches, and entrepreneurs build their business after a long career as an employed professional.
We believe you should be able to do what you love and get paid what you're worth, consistently. I'm David Shriner-Cahn. Thank you for taking the time to listen to our show. I'll see you on our next episode.