From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best. The show for people with big opinions. Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Back. The show where we take two things. Smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a fun-filled face-off between two timeless playground favorites. It's tag versus hide and seek. Story pirate, improviser, and motion... No need to brag. It's the game that doesn't drag. It's more fun.
And story pirate Peter McNerney is here with a heavy dose of stealth and strategy for Team Hide and Seek. And here to judge it all is Truman from Stillwater, Minnesota. Truman is currently starring in his first professional musical, enjoys Dungeons and Dragons, and would one day love to be a Broadway actor who moonlights as a professional therapist. Hi, Truman. Hi. So what is it like to be in a professional musical?
It's so much fun. It's so cool being surrounded by the people you want to grow up to be. That sounds very, very cool. And what draws you in about being a therapist someday? Um, I, my mom's a therapist and I think it's just a really cool job because you get to help people. And I've always been like intrigued about mental health. And I just think it's super interesting. It's great.
And you've judged Nashville best multiple times now. Yeah. Do you have any advice for our debaters today? Make me laugh and references. References and laughs. Will Truman side with Nick or Peter? Only time will tell. But first... Here are the rules. Every debate consists of four rounds. The declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack and the final six. After each round, our judge Truman will award points to the team that impresses him the most, but he'll keep his decisions.
top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay, Nick, Peter, and Truman. Are you ready? Yeah. Born ready. Take the letter E, color it red. Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness.
In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. With up to Coyne and Nick, you're up first. Tell us what is so terrific about tag. I love tag. It's easily my favorite game, but lately I'm getting tagged way too often. So I decided to join my local gym to get in shape and up my game. By the way, did I mention this is a tag, Jim? Yo, what's up, tag?
My name's Bryce Klein, owner of The Fountain, a.k.a. the best tag gym Des Moines has to offer. Let me show you around. Over here we've got Slope. and a wicked jumping wall. Everything you need to practice death-defying escapes from an epic tagger. Isn't that right, Lexi? For sure, Bryce. Lexi's one of our best clients. Before I joined the fountain, I played like an amateur, chasing taggers like a puppy chases her tail. But now, I'm no puppy. I'm Top...
Dog, I used to be it, but now I'm killing it, running it, flexing it, owning it. We're so happy you came by to check out the place, Nick. Sign up today and the first month's free. And if you catch me, the second month's free. But you won't. Wow! I can't wait to up my tag game! In case you've been living under a rock, which is sadly a winning hide-and-seek strategy, tag is a worldwide phenomenon that people have been playing for centuries.
Besides being super fun, Tag is really good for you. It gets your heart pumping, it requires speed, quick reflexes, and helps you master the art of watching several targets at once. And humans aren't the only ones who love playing TAG. Scientists have noticed that young gorillas also play a version of this classic game. TAG is so beloved, it's even played by other species.
Hey, Jill, do you want to play tag like a silverback gorilla? Or would you rather play hide-and-seek like that turtle? Tag! Tag! I love gorillas! Not only is the game fun, but there are a ton of different ways to play Tag. Like Freeze Tag, where you get tagged and stay still until someone unfreezes you. Or TV Tag, where you can avoid getting tagged if you say the name of a TV show. Or my favorite, Smash Boom Best Tag. It's just like TV Tag, but you share a fact about Molly.
Tag, you're it. Oh, wait, Molly Bloom has a phobia of birds named Kevin. Oh, man, you're right. There's also octopus tag, hot dog tag, blob tag, Star Wars tag, and more. And if you get really good, you can play tag professionally. World Chase Tag is a competitive sport where two teams race to tag each other in an arena filled with obstacles. It's played internationally and has killer rounds like chase-offs and sudden death chase-offs.
That's for players who are really good at tag. You want to know what happens if you get good at hide and seek? You go missing. Hide and seek requires a lot of space, dark and musty old places to hide. But you can play tag anywhere with anyone. You could even play on the moon. That's one small step for man. One giant leap for mankind. Tag, you're it, Neil. Ah, you rascal. Get over here. Uh, Houston, we have a problem. Neil is never going to catch me.
Whether you're playing in a gym, a playground, or outer space, any place is a perfect space for our game of chase. Tag. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to catch Bryce. Because you know I'm not going to pay full price for that gym membership. You're never going to catch me, dude. Yes, I am. Come here, Bryce. He's really good at this. You just had to mention Kevin, my phobia of birds named Kevin.
I don't know if I can go on in this taping. Oh, Nick, what an excellent job. Truman, what stood out to you about Nick's declaration of greatness? I liked the switch of scenes. It was like the perfect amount. of each scene where I could see it in my head. I loved it. The wording was great. And, you know, tag is a go-to. It's true. Peter, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why tag is just a red flag. You've got 30 seconds and your time starts.
Tag? Really? That's a fun game? You know what I call tag? I call it running around. Ooh, the strategy. Oh, guess what? I'm faster than you. You're in. Game's over. Yeah, you know, that gym thing. was very apt because, you know, who wants to go to the gym? That's what Tag is. Exercise. Just exercise. I need to be distracted in my exercise and Tag does not do the job.
Tag! No one's it! And I... I don't really understand why Peter doesn't like to exercise. I think exercising's fun, and I think tag is the perfect way to trick yourself into exercising. Okay, it is your turn, Peter. Tell us why Hide and Seek is so unique. Oh, hi everyone. Sorry to whisper, but I'm in the middle of playing the greatest game of all time. Hide and seek and... Well, things may have gotten a little out of hand. Peter, where are you? You've been hiding for four days!
that's my friend gary we're very competitive neither one of us has slept since the game began Oh, what was that? You're clearly right here in this cookie jar. What? You're not in here. This jar is full of delicious cookies in the... Shape of your face? Did you make these just to mock me? I did. You'll never defeat me, Peter. I'll find you!
Wow, this game rules! But why? Why is the simple act of hiding or seeking so fun? To answer that question, here's me, recorded earlier when I wasn't hiding in an incredibly cramped spot. Peter? Thanks, Peter. Hi, everyone. Now, you're probably wondering, what am I doing in this idyllic forest untouched by civilization? Is it to set the scene for what life was like for our Paleolithic hunter-gatherer ancestors? Wow, good guess. It is! You see, we as humans are hardwired to search for stuff.
to seek for animals, for plants to eat, for shelter, for water, or any other thing that you might file under needed to live. If your great-great-greatest of great-grandparents didn't have treasure-hunting brains, You probably wouldn't be here. Hey, Gurgs, are you coming? Time to hunt saber-toothed tiger. Oh, shoot. That's today? Yeah. What, you have something else to do? I thought maybe I'd just relax and do some Minecraft.
You mean, dig for stones and minerals? Yeah. What else would I mean? I don't know. Well, good luck not eating. Bye! So, the urge to hide and seek is likely what helped humans survive and thrive. Whoa, so you're saying it's not just for fun, it's important? Yes, I am, inexplicable other Peter. This is so cool. I know. That's why even to this day, we love to play hide and seek. And to prove it, I interviewed the ultimate expert on games. A child.
Hello there. Now, is it true that you are in fact a real kid? Yes. And have you played hide and seek? Yes. And have you played tag? Yes. Tell me, which one is better? Hide and seek by a mile. Whoa, really? Why? I like hide and seek a lot more because you actually have to use your brain. If you're playing tag with someone who's
faster than you, then they'll just keep winning. What fun is that? Indeed. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Well, as a professional kid, I'd like to say that hide-and-seek rules and tag, sadly, drool. Wow, an excellent point. Wouldn't you say so, weird other Peter? I would! Hey, how come I never noticed that there are two of me? Where have you been this whole time? I was hiding. Ho ho ho, nice!
Anyway, Hide and Seek really is the universal game, stretching from antiquity all the way to our modern age. Back to you, original Peter, still playing that game of hide-and-seek. Thanks, Peters. Wow, this really is a great game, and one that I refuse to stop playing until Gary admits defeat. I think he's close. Fine. I give up. You win, Peter. Are you happy? Come out. Come out wherever you are. Okay. Here I go. I'm right here.
Peter, were you hiding in the toilet? Yes! For four days! Didn't anyone have to use the bathroom in that time? Um... Well... I win! Wow. Peter really does love hide and seek. Going to amazing lengths to win. Sounds like no way home, the amount of Peters that are there. Absolutely. Now, Truman, what stood out to you about Peter's Declaration of Greatness? I really did like the Minecraft reference. I thought it was like a perfect timing. And it was just very like...
immersive in a way. And then like the sprinkled in like extremes of hide and seek I really liked. Four days is a long time. All right, Nick, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why Hide and Seek is super weak. You've got 30 seconds. And go! Great. Well, Peter said it himself, hide and seek the game where you can't go to the bathroom. You got to hold it the entire time.
What a wonderful way to just feel in pain. Also, that kid sounded an awful lot like Peter's child. I wonder if they're biased at all. I don't know. I hope Peter's taking care of him. OK. And also the whole conversation about like. You got to find a saber-toothed tiger. Well, then you got to catch it. And that part would be tag. Hide and Go Seek is kind of the preamble, and it is the only game where you could fall asleep while you're playing it. And time.
Oh, you can't go to the bathroom? Did you listen to the argument, Nick? I hid in the toilet. I could go wherever I wanted to. That's the fun of hide and seek is that you can, you know, let's not get too specific. We already made a serious potty humor joke. But you know what? Let us not forget. Half of Tag is seeking, a.k.a. catching you. It's already in the game. More complex. That was a sound effect just... Have you ever thought of hide-and-seek tags?
It is a variation of hide and seek. I would call that a variation of tag because you have to finish with the tag. The tag is finished. Oh no, are we becoming friends? No! Let's make up a game! Truman, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable?
Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision? Wonderful. Peter and Nick, how are you two feeling so far? I'm feeling pretty good. I do feel bad I've been yelling at Nick. I just want to pause and say that Nick is my best friend and I love you. I would echo what Peter has said. I would love to play either hide and go seek or tag with Peter. I feel like I should yell more. It is time for a quick break.
Hello, debate fans. I'm Todd Douglas, and I'm here with the one and only... Taylor Lincoln. And lucky me because I just hooked a big old logical fallacy. Logical fallacies are debate mistakes that make your argument weaker. I just saw someone using the special pleading fallacy. That's when a person asks for an exception to be made for their side without any support to back it up. Let's take a listen.
Thanks for fishing with me, Jesse. I've been dying to test out this new bait I've been developing. No problem, James. Besides, I've been dying to go fishing for months. What's been keeping you? It's really hard to get a fishing permit this year. Without a permit, you're not allowed to fish, but luckily I was able to get one yesterday. Oh yeah, those permits sure are important for conserving wildlife. Every angler should get one. Exactly.
Hey, when did you get your permit? Oh, me? Oh, no, I never got one. But I think we'll be okay. What? But you just said people should have them. Yeah, but I'm a really good fisherman. I think I'll be fine if I don't get one. You know what I mean? Besides, what could go wrong if just one guy doesn't have a permit? We're going to need a bigger boat for a logical fallacy this large.
James knows having a fishing permit is really important, so it's unfair that he didn't get one himself. That's right. You're not allowed to fish without a permit. but he wants a special exception because he's good at fishing. That's a fishy excuse to me. Exactly. James should have gotten a permit like Jesse did before they hit the lake. Wow. All this fishing talk has put me in the mood for some seafood.
How about you, Taylor? Ooh, I'm always open for a fine filet of fish. We'll see you next time on... Hey friends, Molly, Sandin, and Mark here with some very big news. Drumroll please. We're hitting the road in search of adventure, fresh air, and you. That's right. We're going to be live at the Boulder Theater in Boulder, Colorado on Sunday, April 27th. Our science-themed live stage show takes the audience on an adventure.
through the brain, complete with magic tricks, dance moves, out-of-body experiences, mystery sounds, and a game show. Molly, you almost left out the most important part. Yeah, Molly, don't forget the big party. Oh, right. After the shows were throwing a brain-tastic bash, Join us afterward for a VIP party where we'll play games, guess mystery sounds, pose for photos, and give as many high fives as humanly possible.
Snag a spot by purchasing a VIP pass when you buy your show ticket. Oh, that reminds me. I've got to start training. These hands aren't going to high five by themselves. Good idea. And remember. Spots are limited, so grab your tickets today at BrainsOn.org slash events. Brains on Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe.
It's Alien Exercise Hour! Hi-ya! Hoo-ha! While I stretch my snoodles and bounce on my trampoline... Maybe I'll listen to a new podcast. I'm going to try Brains On! The best science podcast ever! It's starting, yay! Hello, and welcome to Pop Planet, the only show that gets you up close and personal with... I'm your host, Star Eden. Zorb! Come back here, podcast! Must listen to Brains On now! Listen to Brains On. wherever you get your podcasts.
You are listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom. And I'm your judge, Truman. And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this adventurous debate idea. Hello, my name is Isaiah and I'm from Europe even though I live in... New York City and my debate is
is Harry Potter versus Indiana Jones. Ooh, a battle of wands and whips. We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Isaiah thinks should win. And now, it's back to our debate. Tag versus hide and seek. That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. For the micro-round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
For Nick and Peter, the prompt was Top of the Hour, where each debater has to fill us in on the latest breaking news about their side. Nick went first last time, so Peter, you're up. Give us the breaking news on Hide and Seek. And now we go to our reporter in the field, Trip Grassley.
Thanks, Ted. I'm here in a small town rocked by a not-so-small tragedy. A beloved part of their annual fall festival is a village-wide game of hide-and-seek, and unfortunately, it seems the most... obnoxious member of this community is about to win. Ugh, we're obviously devastated. We've been searching for days, but there's no sign of Devin. Now, as I understand it, normally not finding Devin is a good thing. Yes, he's incredibly annoying, and...
He finds a way to gloat about literally everything. If he won, he'd totally rub our faces in it. Frankly, we're heartbroken by the idea that he's about to win. Wow. So despite all that, I guess you would have to say that Devin is officially the best hider in town? I don't know how I came to this, but yes, I must admit, he's very good at hiding. Too late! What? Fake mustache! Jevin! Oh, baby! You said it! I'm the best! Woo! I'm the lord of hiding! In your face! In your face! You are so obnoxious!
I think you mean so good at hiding! Back to you in the studio. Wow, annoying. Wow. Nick, now it's your turn to give us your top of the hour on tag. Welcome back to the News at Nine. I'm James Cranberry with tonight's top story. There's a brand new sensation sweeping through the nation known as it. Scientists aren't exactly sure what it is, but it's clear that it
is a lot of fun. Those who come down with this curious condition are overcome with a sense of thrill and a primitive urge to pass it on. For more, here's Robert Laundrie in the field. Robert? Hi, James. I'm here with Tabitha Woodpile, who claims that she was briefly it. Tabitha, tell us about your experience. It was wild. I was myself, but then the next thing I knew, I felt this... This light touch on my shoulder. And then I knew I was it. And I had this powerful urge to pass it on.
It was like I was a lioness or a cheetah. But what was it you were trying to pass on? But I know it was making me and everyone around me laugh and run around and yell like wild. Uh-oh, I think that guy's it. Gotta run. I love tags so much. You're it. Uh-oh. It appears that now I am it. I don't know what to say other than, I gotta go catch someone! Back to you, James! Whee! This is the best day of my life!
Okay, these games are so fun that even the newscasters have to play. Truman, what did you like about Nick and Peter's micro rounds? Ooh, I, um... I liked that both of them were, like, everybody's involved. Absolutely. And, like, I'd love to know more about this it. Like, it's, uh, is there, like... Like, did it start with, like, one person in every country is it? And, like, if one person is it and they tag another person...
Does the person who tagged the other person stay it? We need a 12-part investigative podcast series, I think. All right, Truman, it is time to award a point. Have you made your decision? Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot.
Today's sneak attack is called Sonic Stealth. For this challenge, we want you to come up with a version of your game that could be played with just sound. Again, your game should be audio only, as this is a podcast. We want you to name your sound game inspired by your side. Explain it. Then let's play it. Debaters, does this make sense? I believe it does. Yes. Okay, we're gonna start with Nick. I would like to play a brand new version of Tag called T-Tag. The way that it works.
is one person is it. And they're trying to listen for the top. Whenever you say T, you can't be caught. But as soon as somebody says ta, the person who's it has to say ta before they can say T again. And then that person becomes it. Great. I'll be it to start. So everyone else can only say T. As soon as I hear somebody say ta, I can tag them if I say ta.
before somebody else says T again. Whoa, okay. Do we take turns saying T? You can all say T as many times as you want, but if I hear a ta and I say ta, that person who ta'ed is it. Okay, I'm ready. I'm partially ready. Yes. Go. I sort of get it. Tea. I can't stop saying Todd. Peter's the new Todd. Peter's it. I Todd. I Todd, you're Todd. You Todd early and I Todd it. All right. Okay. You Todd it.
Todd is it. It is Todd. Todd is it. Yeah. And you taught it well. I'm glad that I taught you well. Good. I taught it well. Thank you. That was fun. I want to play that again. All right, Peter, it is your turn. Let's hear about your new audio-only version of Hide and Seek. My audio-only version of Hide and Seek is very simple. We all close our eyes, and in your mind, if you're the hider, you decide where you want to hide. And then you say, guess where I'm hiding?
but in a voice that makes it sound like you're in that space. And then you have to guess what kind of space I'm in. For example, I'm going to pick in my mind a suitcase. And then we go, all right, ready, go. I'm hiding! I'm hiding! And then you say, are you in a box? Nope. All right, Craig, I'm ready. I'm ready. All right, ready? All right. All right, are you ready? Guess what I'm hiding?
No, I was underwater. Underwater. Underwater. Yes, yes. Truman was correct. I was right. I was right. Points for Truman. Truman's the seeker. Truman found you. I'm just in a suitcase and I can't get out. Are you in a suitcase and you can't get out? Oh, my gosh. These are both so fun. So we've got two excellent games here. We've got T-Tot.
Tag. Tita. And the audio version of Hide and Seek. We've got Guess Where I'm Hiding. It is very tough. I'm going to call the game Can You Hear Where I'm Hiding? Ooh, love it. Okay, so we've got Tita Tag. Can you hear where I'm hiding? I need you, Truman, to award a point to your favorite game. I'm awarding. It is time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Peter, let's hear your six words for the heart-pounding Hide and Seek. Ready or not, here comes fun! I applaud you. Excellent. Okay, Nick, it's your turn. Give us six words that will help you brag about tag. Run! Oh man, two really good final sixes there. But Truman, only one of them can receive your final point. Have you made your decision? Yes. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best? I am. All right, drumroll, please. And the winner is... It is Hide and Seek.
It was very close. I'll take it. Congrats. It came down to the final six and... Ready or not, Here I Come is such a classic, but adding the fun. It was just, it was perfect. I loved it. forgot that that was six words. So I thought it was... Really clever. Nicely done, both of you. What I enjoyed about Nick's performance was, besides every single second of it, thinking about it later, I also loved that.
You did make me want to run around for that. Thank you. And your presence makes everything better. Aw. Thanks, Peter. I feel like I won even though I lost. I'm blown away by Peter's creativity. Just hearing him do all the different voices was so fun. I think that game, guess where I'm hiding now?
is brilliant. I think we're going to hopefully play it constantly on road trips. I just want to keep playing that game. I could play that all day. It sounds so fun. You know, I found Peter's performance of it very... I get it. I get it. I think he deserves to win. Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Truman crowned hide-and-seek the Smash Boom best. But what about you? Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by Molly Bloom, Anna Weggel, and Aron Woldeselassi. We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Gary O'Keefe with sound design by Anna Weggel. Our editors are Shayla Farsi. And Sandin Totten. With fact checking by Rebecca Rand. And we had production help from the rest of the Brains on Universe team. Rosie DuPont. Rachel Breeze. Anna Goldfield. Nico Gonzalez-Whistler. Ruby Guthrie. Lauren Humpert. Joshua Wright.
And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Nick, is there anyone... like to give a shout out to today? I'd like to give a shout out to my kids, RJ and Neek. And how about you, Peter? Any special shout outs? My kids, Brennan, Maben, and their school. We love the story pirates. Truman, do you want to give any space?
my dad and um everybody who's helped me throughout my life that is a beautiful thing smash boom best is a non-profit public radio program if you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge or if you're And while you're at it, join SmartyPass for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all four shows in the Brains On universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom best debate battle next week. Frankenstein's Monster vs. Frost. I was going to say the same thing, Peter.
Can you hear where I'm hiding? Yeah, go ahead. Are you hiding inside the dream of an alien? Are you a free elf? Dobby? Not quite. Are you inside a fan? Yes, I was in a fan. Yeah, how'd you know?