"Nick Jonas"

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Good morning from both coasts. Uh we're sh we're recording from both coasts, Jason's still. Are we gonna take a look at the weather first or are we gonna get right down to the new ones? You know we're gonna look at the We're gonna look at the weather right after this wonderful episode of Smart lesson. Good morning, everybody. Hi Sean. Sorry, are you about to launch into something? It was like good morning, everybody.

Sean remember when Sean used to have a bunch of talking points prepared for the coffee? I always do. Do you really? Do you have it written down on a piece of paper? I jotted down a couple of things that happened uh Does Nick do it? No, I do it Just right before we sign on. Scotty ever ever recommend or suggest? Hey, you know what will be fun for you guys to talk about tomorrow? Ever? No, not really, no. All right. So what what are the what are the hot topics today? Hot topic for sure.

What do you what do you got down there? So my sister was here, you know. Uh yeah. The Tracy, listener, the Tracy not only exists, but she had a little stay at Shawnee's house. Yeah, and Jay, you called and she- I called. And you talked to her. And you two were spooning, right? I mean like Yeah. Scotty. Nothing weird about that. Oh you guys were were Yeah. That's fine. Fine. We could use you know what? We could use more cuddling in this world. We could, and maybe a little less gum. Yeah.

Ha ha ha. Yeah. I know it's I know it's hard to remember because you know we do these like a week apart, and then you forget a lot in six days. It's difficult. Is there like a nicotine cream? What about if you found like a cream you could just put on your shoulders or something? Yeah, what about it? Okay. Yeah, is it like like uh testosterone cream? Yeah. And I've read about Yeah. No. Yeah, oh yeah, it's not working. It's not working. I need to do a few more clicks.

So Shawnee, hot topic. So Tracy was here and we watched the documentary. You guys gotta see this called Trust Me the False Prophet. Wait, is this the one about the Mormon? Yes, somebody told me about it. Well no, it's not about the Mormon. It's about the fundamentalist church of Latter day Saints. Which is which is an extension of So yeah, so Sam Bateman, right? Yes, that's right. I thought of you. I'll bet you did. Yeah, it's... Explain yourself, Jason.

I d yeah. I don't know if there's a relation there, but I would guess that there is. I mean, our family is uh is out of Utah. so i mean That was your that was probably your first tip, I guess, huh? Ha ha ha. Is that was that what kind of got you going in that direction? I'm not an experienced investigator, but those are uh two hot leads: name and location. Nothing gets past you, dude. It's unreal. Ha ha ha. Name and location. So how is Sam doing, Jason?

Uh I yeah, I have not spoken to him for years. Um no, I have no idea what he's But um but Amanda did uh actually just this morning say that she finished it and she said it's really worth uh watching, that it lands the plane very well. Yeah, it's sad and and and fascinating and all those things. Well, you know, there's a Bateman that that runs through uh that great John Crack Hour book that uh that I I optioned and produced that um um Under the banner of heaven. Under the banner of heaven.

If you've if you've never read it, it's a great read. Yeah, it's really tragic, but there is a Bateman that goes through that and and I bet he's related to it. You guys m you made that, right? We did. Yeah. Yeah. Andrew Garfield plays uh plays a lead in that. Uh. On FX? Great. To be honest, I wasn't, yeah. Oh I gotta see that. I I never saw it. I do want to see it. I read I loved that I loved that book. Yeah, that book is... What's it up like generally in a sentence?

There's these uh About two hundred and fifty pages? These brothers kill uh kill another brother's child and wife uh uh because they say they got a s uh they got a sign from up above. Um Fun. Wait, based on a true story or But what's interesting about the structure of the thing is that the other thing Yeah. Every other chapter sort of um it's telling the linear uh birth and progression of the religion of Mormonism. And you can see how Yeah um well you can make your own decisions about uh

With Joseph Smith from coming from upstate New York and all that sort of stuff and and and then they sort of breaks that down in his way. But but either way either way, wherever you land on it, it i it is a kind of I I thought it was an excellent book. He's God, Cracker is uh something else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh Sean, sorry, one more sorry, we let's get to the next topic. Sorry. Are you worried about it? You can't be you just can't be yourself in the moment, isn't that what it is?

No, we can totally. Every day. Yeah. Um was that it you were just gonna make a recommendation for media? Yeah.

That and also I saw now that we're talking about documentaries, Jay, I finally saw the apocalyptimistic Oh yeah, the AI documentary. Yeah, yeah. That was wild. So what do you think? Are you are you are you uh uh bullish? Sure. Yeah. No I I I I can't be pessimistic. I can't. I can't. I I I I have to believe just so I can get through every day that AI and us will work together and AI is not gonna destroy the world.

That that mankind will will will do the right thing when when when presented with an option to use this incredible technology for good or for bad. I always believe humanity will win out in the end. Hey guys, you know. It's so good. I tell you who will eat. I It's still me.

Oh sorry. Wait, Sean, you had one more bullet point or not? That was it was just uh cultural um recognition. Oh Sean, we we we shouldn't mention in uh just uh our little our little side menu uh uh uh our little side uh uh thing which is Sean's menu, which is becoming our new it's our new it's our new it's it's our new feature called uh Sean's menu. Last night uh Jason and I got received a text in the in the chat um

And a picture of the beginnings of a beginning of a s'mores uh extravaganza on a Monday night. Yeah. No, not fully not fully dark, not in a beach setting, not on a vacation around a campfire. Just a Monday night in Los Angeles. Monday night. Yeah. Regular dessert. It was a uh Dessert was at six fifteen, by the way. Okay. And it was and it was elegantly laid out on a plate with uh uh proper ratios of graham crackers, chocolate and mushroom uh not mushrooms, sorry, uh marshmallows.

Um there on the plate. Very dignified. Uh like this is your your your s'm'mores kit that uh the uh chef laid out for you. I did it myself. I was all alone. Scotty was out of town. I was all alone. I had so For you? That was just for me, yeah. And I had four in a row. But wait, this is this is the hack. This is the s'mores hack. Oh yeah, tell us. I take the chocolate and I microwave it so it's more like a sauce. Yeah. And then I pour the sauce onto the marshmallow. I don't know. Mother.

Yeah, so you it's not like you're just biting into a chocolate. Sean, why don't you just stuff it why don't you just stuff it all in your mouth and then hop in a sauna and just let it melt in your mouth? Okay. All right. Hey, that's not a bad idea. All right. What are you doing? How are you making small? Yeah. Really dive into the sweets. Ha ha ha. Or to reheat any sort of food, um he'll just walk in there with his plate. Fucking hell. Why waste the wattage?

Well while you were doing that, I'll say this. Our our guest, Sean, you do like this. He started performing on Broadway at the age of seven. Really funny. Okay. Yeah. Seven years old starting on Broadway and has continued on on and off on Broadway, amongst the other amazing thing he's done, which have been had multiple number one albums, chart topping singles. Uh in a group and also uh as a s with a solo career. Hugh Jackman.

And incredible acting credits across film, TV, big studio movies, prestige TV, then returned to Broadway, been nominated for Golden Globes, Headline Global Tours, coached on The Voice. Okay? And built a career that that goes that went from teen idol to serious actor uh to legit and and legitimate musician all the way through, which is not. All right, Mandel.

He's got his new uh his new record came out February sixth, Sunday best uh marking his first solo project in nearly five years. Please welcome to the show, Nick Jonas, you guys. Come on! You look nothing like Howie Mandel. Or Hugh Jackman. Well give it time. Give it time. See you guys. Yeah. This feels overdue. I don't know. That was great. Yeah. I started to go in globe. I know. That was so lovely.

We were backstage at the the holding room for the presenters. My wife was was presenting you guys for the yeah. It's not a big room. It that that that's one of the one of the bleakest, most depressing rooms in Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah, yeah I did enjoy listening to you guys rehearse though. It was the master class in uh in bit. What us three? And you guys crushed the bit. It went viral after. It was great. What d did we do we honestly rehearse? There's a little side room.

back like six times it was great. We did? Yeah. Yeah. Just for timing. And then I'll tell you it was nothing like just for time. Just for timing. Get familiar with the piece. Didn't you think that Jason should have spoken up, he was a little soft on that one? That if I if we were still rolling, I'd go back and raise the volume a little bit. Yeah. Cheers, man. It was great. I loved it. Cheers. Thanks for having me guys. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah.

Dude, it it is so overdue. It's it's so overdue that you're here. And and uh like I said in my in the intro, as you go back and you look at all the stuff you've done from such a young age and how much incredible success you've not just had but continue to have, it's remarkable, man. It's so it's so singularly like that is so tough to do and it's really

It's a really a tribute to your talent. It's unbelievable. It's just that that you've always at everything you've done, you've excelled and you've managed to sort of keep it. Uh, you know, you've done top rated stuff. And that and I wonder if for you do you feel Starting young like that, did you feel pressure like I gotta keep this going? Did you ever feel that pressure starting starting so young?

I think to a certain degree, yeah. I would you know, I I started as as you mentioned before on Broadway as a kid. Um, was was lucky enough to do a few shows and then I was actually a family friend that um that heard a a song oh, is it sound bad? No, no, family friend, those stories never really go well. Oh I thought this one. I'm on set right now. There's trucks behind me. This one does go well. Family friend. He also happened to be our chiropractor. He was like.

He um he told my dad, he's like, look, you know, I know Nick recorded this song. I'd love to play it for this guy who works at um works at Sony Music Group. Did he ever a did he ask you to just relax? Uh thankfully thankfully not. Um but you know, started recording and and

Then we got signed as a trio, me and the brothers. Um and I think, you know, because we had we had sort of early in our career, um had had a big failure. Our first album did not do well. We got dropped by our first label. Oh god. It took um it took, you know, us finding a home with with Disney and our partners there to kinda really

uh step into the next phase. And I think that resilience came from that early perceived failure. Right. Right, right, right. Well that's yeah, ca I mean did you have am I right about the well, first of all, I read somewhere that uh and I don't you tell me if it's true that that you were first discovered by like a a talent manager or pushed towards one when you were at At like a barber shop, like getting a haircut or something?

Salaam my mom, yeah. I was I was six and I was always singing, um you know, before I was even talking. And she was getting her hair done. I grew up in Jersey and so we're known for our hair salons, diners, bowling alleys and shopping hours. Um and yeah, so she was getting her hair done. I was I was saying the woman next to her said, Hey my son is is Gab Roche on Broadway. Uh I think your son could do it.

Grand. Was was it was it Gait and Maderazzo by any chance? Didn't he play Gavrasha on Broadway? Uh no, he he played Gabrash later than than I did, I think. Okay. Um I did it in early two thousands. Um but Basically went into this talent manager's office her name's Shirley Grant. Rest in peace, Shirley. She got her walls lined with like, you know, headshots of of little actor kids, weird actor kids who look you in the eye and shake your hand really intense. JB

He's looking at you. Did you notice that he's looking at you? Um and she started sending me on auditions and that was kind of the start to to my run doing doing shows and That's so nuts. So you played Gav Roche and and I played Gav Rush. Gabrosh, I'm embarrassed to say I don't know. He's the the kid that that basically is the kind of narrator for for the the second chapter of of the story, basically when Valjean. Have you seen Lemiz? Of Lemons. Lemons. Oh. It's the only kid in the whole thing.

Spoiler alert, he gets shot in the head and he gets killed. And it's a as a child actor, it's a you know dream role. You get to do the old Snap of the head back and die. It's Um I also played.

Wait, wait, full wait, full side wa wait, full sidebar pause. Have you either uh you have, you've just admitted. Have you guys ever been shot in a production, in a show or anything like that? You've had to get shot? No. Yeah, I think I've I've bored bored you guys with my Little House in the Prairie story of getting shot first time ever. No, no. I've never heard it. I was uh what was I ten, ten or eleven, something like that. God, they're shooting a lot of kids in these productions. For sure.

First. First big first big gig. Um I I uh I'm playing this this kid. Uh uh uh me and my older brother, we walk into a to a bank uh there in the little western town. And it's in the middle of getting robbed. But we don't know that. We walk in, ding ding, the door chime goes and uh the bank robbers turn around and see these two little kids and he fires and hits me right in the chest or the leg or whatever the hell it is.

Um we shoot the rehearsal. Michael Landon's directing this episode. We shoot the rehearsal. So um so I get shot and I throw myself against the wall. I slide down the wall and when I get to the floor I start shaking and quivering like one does'cause, you know, y all you can see is uh in the movies and a TV. And then I I slowly expire. And and all I hear is total silence. My eyes are closed on the floor. And and and I just hear Michael Landon go, Okay, we're gonna cut.

And he walks slowly over to me. I still have my eyes closed. I'm still in it, I'm still doing and he whispers in my ear, Okay, we're gonna do another one and this time I'm gonna want you to just collapse on the floor. Let me get shot. I want you to just slowly, just collapse and quietly expire. Here we go, everybody, back for walk. I was so mortified and embarrassed. V you know, vibrating and and throwing myself Fucking terrible. Yeah. Oh. God bless you, JB. That's good. I'm feeling it.

So you do. So you were gonna say after Gab you said after Gabrash you played. Oh yeah. So I d I I did my first show I I did a Christmas Carol, which is kind of a seasonal show. So technically not a Broadway show, but Annie Get Your Gun was my first show with Reba McIntyre. I did it with Franklin, actually. It was pretty incredible. I was uh actual character name Scrooge at eight.

And I was the understudy I was the understudy for Tiny Tim and and in the eight years that this show had run, they'd they'd never had a Tiny Tim cover have to go on. So they just didn't bother rehearse the Tiny Tim covers. And the the year I did it, you know, again, my my dad gets a call and they say, Hey, um, N Nick's gonna go on for Tiny Tim today. We gotta get you here an hour before the show to do a put in.

So I I I rush over to the theater and and basically run the five scenes that Tiny Tim has in the two songs. Um And, you know, thrust thrown out there for the the opening kind of song and um literally my mind goes blank. Sixteen bars of just silence.

As the music's playing. There's really intimidating conductors there look me in the eye and it was a good in entryway into live theater. You know, shit happens. I guess you'll roll with it. But a as an eight year old I was pretty mortified. Um Scrooge it eight would be a good title for uh autobiography if you ever decide to write one. I'm gonna write that down actually. That's a good idea. Wait, uh did did the did that did that instill a fear in you about performing Going forward?

Well the conductor came up to me after and I was expecting him to to sort of scold me or something like a teacher would. Instead he he came down on my level and he said, Things happen. You just gotta keep going next time. He said, We're just gonna drop to the floor. Yeah. Yeah. And we've got to reset. And yet you just collapse and and expire. Um actually I w I wonder if I uh hearing you say that and and Sean, your question.

I wonder if it had the opposite effect of having that you kinda mentioned like your s first record wasn't the hit that you it w it didn't go well, that you had that experience at eight on Broadway. In a lot of ways it probably galvanizes you and it cause if you can kind of get through that at such a young age. Yeah.

Yeah. I uh right, in a in a lot of ways you kinda go like, Well fuck, I've done that already. Like I'm you know, otherwise you're waiting for that moment your whole life. Like when is gonna be the time that I'm gonna completely bottle it in the in the moment, you know?

Yeah, and I've had a few of those too, uh later on. Sure. Um moments that that certainly didn't go um the way I hoped. But I yeah, I I do think that that early those early experiences helped kind of create a a foundation that led to me not losing it. Yeah.

Way better than you thought they were going to go at a at an early age. Like for instance. you know the the the like the incredible fandom of like like all of these like girls screaming at you at even at an age where you might like uh you're just starting to like get all crazy about girls and like

Has i is that sort of thing now that you're you're an adult and you have you've you've managed to weather the transition between sort of like teen idol into into an adult, you know, uh a professional actor, performer, et cetera. Um You know, how how does all that stuff kind of transition for you in your in your head about, you know, how much of it is real, how much of it is just part of the job, what do you do with all that sort of like

That ego surplus and uh you know,'cause it's all kind of junk food to a certain extent and like you gotta figure out w where to place it all, right? I guess. It's a great question. I mean I always think it's funny when people uh frame an answer this way, so f so forgive me for doing it. But I think You know, one of the biggest misconceptions about us and odd to acknowledge your own perceived misconception. Sure. Um, but it was was that because we worked with Disney and the core of our demo was

you know, primarily teens. Yeah. Um, that, you know, the there's no way this music came from an honest source or or that it came from us even. Right, right, right. And it was a really bizarre thing to sort of, you know, be in a spot where at thirteen, fourteen years old, uh, I was I was experiencing all the things you're talking about, first love, first heartbreak, real big

you know, human emotions that I was able to put into song in a way that spoke directly to that audience. And when you ask about like what what's something I thought went incredibly right, it it would be that. The fact that our dad raised us on this this this great

We discovered our own kind of sound and and found our own voice creatively. And I had this this outlet that both helped me process these big feelings, but also connected in a way that that frankly now, you know, we we play these songs twenty years later.

As men and dads and husbands in our thirties, it's even more resonant with the audience because they've grown with us. And and tracking that over time has just been the most Fascinating thing and and um pretty pretty uh special to be uh you know. And we will be right back. Smartless is brought to you in partnership with Airbnb.

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You mentioned that in your your dad raising you on those so those classics and musically like who so what was that who is the person Did they discover that oh, y that you had a talent for music that that kinda came from you or your parents were they musical in that way? Like was that something that they came from them? Yeah, our dad was a really gifted musician. He um he's a pianist, a a vocalist, and he was actually a pastor um when we first started. We

We lived in Dallas for a bit where I was born. Um and then we moved to Jersey and he became a a senior pastor at this this church there and and um music was always a part of our life and and you know I think uh my my latest album, Sunday Best, came out in February ha really s kind of musically speaking, not so much but lyrically, but musically touches on some of those early musical roots in the church. But the thing is that that he also

really educated us on everything else. The you know, the Bee Gees, the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Carol King, all the greats. And we had, you know, a a a real sort of deep dive musical education, uh, by way of those hour long drives from our house in Wyckoff, New Jersey to the city to go perform and and shows there and

Um eventually, you know, we we left the the church or or were sort of pushed out because our music wasn't Christian music, right? So some of the the people in leadership there were were upset about that and and thought that we were Sean he was looking at you. Yeah, no, I got it. Sean, you wanna talk about the time that you wake off in New Jersey? Okay, so listen. To start, yeah.

Um but that's so so you had all this music and then you start and then you start acting and you have consistently gone back and seamlessly back and forth between the two and and sometimes the marriage of the two in in m in musical like on Broadway. And then and and then and then doing serious acting roles and doing all that stuff. And is there one

I mean you don't have a lane. You have you're occupying multiple lanes at the same time. Uh and uh w how do you approach that? Do you have like an appropri like well now this year I want to spend more time making music or do it or does it just kind of flow? It just kinda flows and as of course you you all know, the the lead time for a film or T V project is is so much longer, you know, than than in the turnaround time we can have in music. I could I could record a song

This afternoon, and then if I wanted to put it out this evening. Um but there's so many people that have to weigh into, you know, how something gets made. um on the film and T V side, which is something that is sort of new for me, you know, on on the development side of things. And um I always love hearing you guys talk about your process with development and and you know, kinda what that's been like because the last I I'd say six years.

kind of during and post COVID, um, outside of touring and music and all that, that's been a really exciting thing is to to sort of do my best to to forge a path where I am a little bit more in the driver's seat than I've I've been in the past. Yeah. Um been really fortunate to be a part of some great projects, but when you can start to develop things

that you feel like are the right next steps for you and you're you're more in a a a sort of position to to make decisions. It's a really empowering thing. How are you finding your your like uh just to sort of follow up further on Will's uh question there? Like are When what what do you what do you find is drawing you more towards acting at times and what's putting you more in a music mood? Um is it um you know, is it um

Yeah, well I mean but the right there are certain dru like are are I guess the question behind it all is is w what it what is the difference in creative fulfillment that you find between acting and music? You know, what is What's what's touching you, you know, uh in your in your uh in your most core place um versus some other place. I don't know. Yeah, I think that honestly bec becoming a a father, we we have a a four year old. Um that really

changed everything for me as a as a creative, um both on the music side and and as an actor. And um I've always loved acting and and I I've kind of bounce between, you know, uh things like uh you know, Jumanji for instance, which is very big and fun and exciting and incredible cast. Um and then smaller things, you know, the the one million dollar movie, right? The thing that that you just kinda grind and and

I love both and think that that it's it's uh amazing to kind of have that that range. Um and on the music side. Uh You know, the driver is the the fans, truly, and I'm I'm not just saying that. It's it's it's bizarre to get to do anything. for as long as we've we've now been fortunate enough to do, especially with the way it kind of began, you know, with with there is a

a a reality is the fact that that teen fans or or that sort of heartthrob label can can be a challenging thing to to step out of. Right. Um and I think my my our daughter and and the experiences I'm having with her have me way more connected to the words I'm saying, no matter what they are and kind of my my worldview and everything else.

So I I can't really say one thing is is more inspiring or exciting, but but actually looking at the world through her eyes in a sense gives me just a a better perspective and a deeper, you know, sort of angle uh on what I want to be doing.

Well and and you've also had the y you know, part of your experience has been uh a big part of it, uh on and off. has been wor continue to work with family, right? To work with your brothers on and off. I mean that that's a very that's also very unique. And i in addition to Your solo work as a musician, uh, and then your solo work, if you will, as as an actor going from project to project.

One of the sort of the one of the through lines has been has been uh what you've created with with your brothers. And I wonder is is that something that you like th Is that f something that feels good as as a sort of a steady thing that's always there that you can kinda lean on, that that idea of that family and you guys doing that stuff together? What's that experience like?

Yeah, it's it's um it's incredible to get to do anything with with the people you love and and to share in in those experiences and um

You know, we we also had a moment where it wasn't good. You know, we we've had that that chapter of the journey too where we had to basically say, let's let's not do the music together anymore, work together so that the the family at you know, the table can can still all be there and love each other and and um you know I think it it took us sort of going through that that season and coming out the other side in a healthy way.

Yeah,'cause you guys went through like a p you know, the the period in in everyone's life uh of change that happens. uh between the ages of like fifteen and twenty is massive. You know, like uh and y that was the you guys were uh just tied at the hip during those those years, yes? Or I mean what Well that yeah, absolutely. Um

It was uh you know, it was both good and bad. Th there are times you I look up and I look at folks who who went through similar experiences to us who who were on sort of a solo journey. Yeah. Um and didn't have that built in support system. Uh'cause we would check each other too, you know, which was which was important to the dynamic and also be a shoulder to to lean on when there was when there was tough times and and frustrating situations to navigate.

Yeah. I mean, you want to change so much, right? During those years, you kind of like you try on these little outfits. I mean, I Willie, we're seeing it with our kids, right? During those ages, like You're kind of like you're kind of reflexing a little bit and seeing like kinda like what kind of young adult you want to become and if and if you've constantly got a sibling there, that's why siblings fight so much.

You're always calling each other bullshit, you know, and like, oh, just stop with the face or with oh nice, nice outfit, or what's going on with your legitimate. Yeah. I was thinking about I was thinking about this with us, like as you were saying it, and w obviously it's it's it's very different, but the three of us, uh, Nick, in this way have You're like brothers. We Yeah, we've been friends for a long time. But we're settled into who we're gonna be

Yes, but at the same time we we check each other all the time. I FaceTime with both of you yesterday. Yeah. Uh I I was gonna do this thing the other uh on Thursday and Jason's like, You gotta play golf me, I'm leaving, I'm going to New York. You have to move that thing'cause I'm leaving and I'm not gonna be able to play for a while. I was like, okay and I called the guy who's gonna do with that I go, I have to go'cause Jason's leaving.

And I have to play golf with him the day before he leaves. And he goes, I think it's so sweet that you guys still want to hang out with each other. And I hadn't even occurred to me. But I get it, like the they you guys are my constant in that way. Like you're my thing. Again, I'm not

And you also uh you you guys are probably as fiercely protective l as we are about maintaining the harmony because it does take some diligence. We don't talk to each other about like you know, the effort I made to avoid a conflict with you, like no, you gotta take care of that shit internally and make sure that you're being the right partner to keeping everything. Like any family. Yeah, like any family, any relationship, you gotta do your part.

Yeah. And you gotta also talk a a decent amount of shit to the people you love. That's Roughly. You have to be balanced. You guys have in spades.

Um, wait, Nick, is there is there anything as far as your music goes, I was thinking about this when Will was kind of touching on this too and you were speaking about it. Is there anything How do you determine of your personal life what to share in a public forum through art? You know what I mean? Yeah. Uh it's a good question. There there are things that that I Even a stop clock tells the right thing. Yeah, no, he's got nominations to back it up. Sure does. Interviewer of the year.

Yeah. Did he win? He did not win. No, we did not win. He didn't win until it got to the co host uh uh version of the nomination. We won. Yeah. Congrats. There there are things that I that I feel, you know, are are probably better to just keep private, you know, and and or find a different way to say it. Um, but I I I have lived a lot of my life You know, in the public eye. Right. So It would be odd to not acknowledge some of the things that are already known about me.

Right. So you write these lyrics, uh y you know that uh y you I mean a writer only writes what a writer knows. So I'm assuming that uh your your feelings, your emotions, your your stories come from your life experience. And then oftentimes you want to sort of explore this through a song, but you're afraid the public might sniff out who that person might be. So you kind of change a name, maybe even change a gender, change who you are, change the like

Yeah, or make it a metaphor, right? Like all of a sudden it's about two two dogs uh in a park or whatever. Like I What an imagination. So Is is there a little bit of like a concoction going there sometimes when you're when you're writing out lyrics? There is yeah and and you know. Are you ever a puppy? Oh my god, dude. Never a puppy or a kitty. That's actually what the entire next album is about. Fucking Nick, please write a song about two dogs in a park. I honestly

Figure it out. There's gotta be a way. And then look over there and there's like Yeah, but it but truly, yeah, it must be hard to decide how to do that. Yeah, I mean I I think that it's always fun to think of of of a different way to to say a thing, um and to to you know, to throw a metaphor in there. But uh but also, you know, to just say the truth is is So Empowering Instead of like they're just sniffing each other, you know, they actually they take each other out on a night.

It's the song's writing itself right now. This is never going away. Uh yeah. I mean, uh have you ever had well then then conversely, like have you ever written a song and then had questions about it or have felt like people misinterpreted it? Like they think that it's about something you're like, oh no, it's not about that.

That that has happened um a a few times. And then the other thing that that happens is that In the year twenty twenty six, there's only so many notes left. So many songs. first started putting music out in the early two thousands. Uh on any given you know Friday release day, there would be uh anywhere from thirty to fifty new release. There are now thousands, three to five thousand somewhere in there releases. Oh my god. Every Friday. Of known and unknown artists, like of anybody. Yeah.

there's just uh uh so much music out there which is both incredible and we we love that there's so many people that are creative and and that there is, you know, new pathways for people to to independently release music, all these things. But the landscape has just changed so much and so as writers we have to adapt as well and musicians, you know, it you've gotta find a new way to cut through and this is

This is it's three thousand to five thousand now and then in a couple of years you're gonna have all the AI uh groups um releasing stuff. You know these labels labels will probably just have certain groups that are fully AI, right? How do you feel about that? This one goes out to my mother. Yeah. Um have you played around with um like just get like a first draft of a of a of a song or or uh like whether it's lyrics or melody to see what

AI can give you on just just on a just a first pass that you then would change to make your own. I mean th the any kind any kind of art I think AI uh I hear can give you a first sort of pass at it as opposed to because the hardest thing is creating something out of nothing. Right. And I uh so

About twenty-five years ago or whatever it was, thirty-ish years ago, probably not that far back. Let's call it twenty-five. I don't have the exact facts. Uh There's the introduction of auto-tune right or n into the music making process. Tell Tracy what that is. Before that there were there were little little tricks you could do to to basically take the the pitch of

a singer and just bring it slightly back in tune so that it just sounded better. Right. Um and then there's compression, which is another tool that's used. So as as, you know, modern music making Much like film and and TV started using t the technology available to them, it it evolved, it changed and and it became a part of the process. You know, to where auto now hearing a song without autotune to your ear would would probably sound odd, or just slight pitch correction.

Uh rough or or you know unfinished or raw. Or more real. Or more real. Exactly. Um my thing as it relates to the AI conversation and and the creative process is that It is inevitable that this thing that is available to everybody will be used in some way, and there will both be good and bad examples of how it's used. But I I believe that the lived experience, the the human experience, cannot be replicated. Right. And certainly

You know, songs about dogs sniffing each other's butts in the park could only come from from great minds, human minds. Right. Perfect.

So but it's it's a really interesting conversation'cause it's happening, you know, in the circles I run in in LA with with other songwriters and you know and script uh screenwriters and um it's it's It actually and and this isn't to like bring up the thing, but I I I have this movie coming with Paul Rudd in June, which is all about my character basically effectively as artist he's a sort of former pop star boy band artist who

uh is at a uh crossroads in his career who wants to go to that next level and he meets Paul in a happenstance situation at a at a wedding that Paul's wedding band's playing at. And and basically I steal. Like it already. I steal this song from him and it becomes a global smash. No way. And he doesn't get the credit. And then he comes after you?

And he comes after me. And it's a really fun movie. John Carney's the director. He's one of my favorite directors and um Paul's incredible in the movie. And but the the basic kind of like hook of it is always had me when I first heard the log line and then when I read it I was just blown away. But

It asks the same question I feel like that some of the AI conversation asks, like what is this idea of ownership, uh of truth and accountability and all these things? And um, you know, I'm Excited for people to to see it'cause it it it will leave you with a lot of questions. I love that. I love that. That sounds really good.

I think we all they're all the everything around this topic are feel like just open ended questions'cause we just don't know and we don't as we're we're all trying so hard to figure out where it's gonna end up. and and w we're spending all our time just spinning our wheels going, what's it gonna be? Is it gonna be good or bad? Is it gonna be this or that? And I guess we're we just that's the frustrating part. We have to kind of surrender to we don't know yet, you know? Yeah. Um

What what kind of I'm I'm curious, what kind of music do you listen to? Uh like if you if if I were to turn on a playlist that that you had right now, like what what what what's the kind of stuff that And I'm sure it varies like everybody, like you go through phases and stuff. But w do you have any kind of like specific genre or something that you always find yourself going back to or artists that you really

I I have a few. You know, I've got I I make playlists that are are um themed. So I'll do like a a Nepo babies playlist and it's anyone that's related to That's funny. another famous musician. And it starts a good debate of who is the more famous musician of the two, which is a fun one. Or great songs with key changes. So when me and my friends get together, we sit down, have a couple drinks, then we we all like

Pass the phone around and add to these playlists. Oh, that's fun. So it gives you Yeah, it's a fun game to play with with your friends if you ever want to do it. Uh and then outside of that, Django Reinhardt um is a gypsy jazz guitar player just really puts me at ease and th like it's always playing in our home. Uh along with, you know, my my wife Brianka is is Indian and and

I've learned so much about the Bollywood film scene and and Indian film as a whole and and the music from those movies and really come to love it. Um so that's those, you know, those are kind of my tin pulls. We'll be right back. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, stuck, anxious, or unsure, that is okay. Those feelings are more common than we think. Whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone.

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This is such a hard one. I don't know how I'd answer it. Who's your fav do you have a favorite band of all time? Yeah. Favorite band of all. You know what yours is well. Well it's spelled to spell. Build spill is up there, but it's not number one. Oh is it um what's the uh the the the fr French um fusion band do you love? Smith is my number one band of all. I love that. French French fusion. What's it called? The the French Canadian fusion van that you just go twat on and on about.

No, he's not, for instance. Oh, Bonnie Bear. Bonnie Very French Canadians. He's from Wisconsin. It's close and it's a French name. Bonnie bear is amazing, right? Bunny Bear. Love, love. He's incredible. Justin Vernon and those guys and uh he's I think I turned you on to them, Will. I mean I it was an earlier early adopter.

Sean Carrie who plays with with when w when when Justin Vernon w when they were doing Bonavera, Sean Kerry's got a beautiful voice and the two of them there's a version if you want to f um It means good winter. So It does. But but without the H just see. There there's there's a song they released, they they did it live in a studio and you can go look it on YouTube.

Uh Justin Vernon and Sean Kerry on dueling pianos and they're uh doing bunny race, uh I can't make you love me. It's one of the most incredible it's one of the most incredible performances. J B, make fun of it as much as you want. You know you never understand it. Okay? You have the heart of AI. I will. Jason has I was saying Jason has the personality of a Waymo driver. Um

Uh but you N Nick, I check it check it out. Check it out. Those guys doing uh uh I I I can't make you love me. It's absolutely heartbreaking. But Yes. I want to know his answer. I know. What's your favorite band? Do you w if you had to? I mean th it the Beatles, you know, of course. Okay. Sure. Um and then The Bee Gees. I love the Bee Gees. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um there's a band called switch foot that that we love. Um

They were really influential for us. They had an album called The Beautiful Let Down, two thousand three. It's like San Diego, um you know, surf kind of like just just a Rock. Kind of emo rock thing that we But yeah the the the Beatles I think number one. Sean, you got a favorite pants?

Well, the Smiths is really, really, really, really high up there, but probably Depeche Mode or Erasure or New Order. All the all the European synth pop of the eighties and nineties. I listen to it every day still. Yeah. Yeah, it's all those. What's the best concert you've ever seen? Uh Probably the patch mode. The Peshmoun. Cảm ơn các bạn đã theo dõi. Because Best concert you've ever seen, JB. And favorite band. Radiohead. We know it. It's Radiohead, yeah, yeah. Radiad, Radiohead.

I think the best concert I ever went to was like nineteen I want to say eighty five, and it was The violent femmes and the pogues in a double bill. Yeah. Uh in Toronto. Yeah. Great concert city. Is it is it a great c is it a great concert? You know, I the one of the most asked questions on a golf course when I'm like playing with with some guys that I I I don't really know is always, what's the what's the best city to play in? Yeah. And and it's I so it's Toronto.

Yeah. Mexico City, Montreal, great concert city. Grey Town. uh Barcelona. Wow. And Brazil. I mean uh anywhere in Brazil. Like it's just Wow. Listen, shout out to Toronto. I just wanna say to all my c all our Canadian listeners, we love you so much, and our friends at RBC. Wait a minute. Not a paid ad.

Wait, I I'm from uh I'm from a little tiny town called Glen Allen, Illinois. And you played at the village Shout out. It's a net jets trip away. Okay. Did not. I went last year. Yeah. Were you there this year? No, I I missed it. I'm up in Vancouver right now. Um speaking of Canada. Is that Right. And uh and I couldn't go, but my brother Joe and I, we first went to the Masters back in uh twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen or seventeen. Um, whatever the Sergio Garcia year was, I think it was six.

And then we kinda made a tradition of it. We would go on Saturday night or Sunday morning and and and do Sunday. Well it's a tradition unlike any other. And um, you know, uh speaking of that, Jim Nance's he he's K kinda been a family friend for a while. Um, he he's come to a lot of shows with his daughter. They have like a connection of come to our shows together. It's really sweet. And she's now, you know, married and and

Um it's it's a beautiful thing. Anyway, he he let us come into Butler cabin and and watch his intro a few times. And um and you know, I was there the year, Tiger One, but I missed it this year. And I think I've seen you from afar at Masters one of the years I went. And just one quick golf story. And sorry to to bore you. No. Um I did this. We're all in. I did this commercial with uh Jordan Speeth for um For eighteen two. Yes, yes. Yeah.

as a sweetener for the deal. Yeah. They were like, hey, um We're gonna get you on to play on the Monday after the tournament. Ooh right after. I got to go and play August. How'd you score? How'd you score in those? So I'm I'm not playing to it now, but at that point I was I was a seven. Um and the conditions were brutal. Uh but I shot at l eighty four. That is really. Did you play their T's? No, no. They had us they had us up. Yeah. Well I mean I don't know things.

I went I went and embarrassed myself. I went with the Manning brothers about a year ago, just over a year ago, and I really stunk up the joint. I finally got it kinda got it together, but I really stunk up the joint. I feel like they could be they could actually be like real working actors now, the Manning Brothers. They're very Payt Peyton Manning, I w he knows this. I've said I've embarrassed him many times. He's the he's the greatest working athlete, uh former athlete actor of all time.

Um we're diehard Giants fans, so we had a couple Yeah. We love Eli too. We love you a lot. Sean, you okay? Yeah. Sean just tuned out more than ever. He's just he's still coming off his high from last night. He had a campfire. I don't know if you knew in Hancock Park, they had a little campfire. Okay. Can't fire for one. I was gonna ask you because I was listening in before we jumped on, can how how does that work? The the Campfire out outside in California? It's over it's in the oven.

It's on the stove. I was like, that seems really dangerous. If the gas is shut off, he'll just go in the sauna as well explained. Yeah. So you'll just you're just standing there jackassing it over an open flame in your kitchen on the stove. Yeah. Yeah. And are you eating standing up? Absolutely standing up for the biggest. And then make the next one. Fingers are now sticky in their own. Totally.

Wait, I'll bet you've got the phone. I bet you're scrolling through your Instagram while you're eating the next one. No, I was listening to the Smiths actually last night. Were you really listening to the Smiths off your iPhone, alone in your kitchen, making s'mores over your gas range? That's right. Fuck you. And you're in slippers and like Yeah, I mean slip point. Totally just disgusting. I was

W Nick, we do have to get you uh you have to come play uh golf with us. I don't know if you you heard Jason's leaving, so we can't play uh for a while until it's Have you guys have you guys had Kevin Hart on the podcast? Yeah. We uh we have, yeah, in the life. So he's he's, you know, newly obsessed with with golf. Is he? Ja. I just finished up on uh the number three, Jumanji and uh right he was he was

Literally scrolling, you know, just watching golf videos and practicing his swing with like this contraption. It's like a thing that simulates like a uh golf I don't know, it's it was very cool. I find it on eBay. Hawaii and some in LA as well. And so in Hawaii you played some yummy courses, I'll bet. That's a yummy. I didn't uh me I didn't have a chance to. I brought I brought my my daughter out. Um

with me and my parents. My w my wife is shooting in India, so I I brought her out. And I did the dad stuff. We did like the dolphin swimming with the dolphins and um I took her. They have a The Kahala Hilton. Yeah, uh I think so, yeah. And they have a um they have a Disney hotel. Um and so, you know, she went and met Moana and all it was it was great. I sacrificed the golf for the dad.

Talk to me about India. How how is India? What what I I've never been there. I I I w I'm desperate to do that. I'm so desperate to get it You should bring the podcast there and do it. We should do that. Great idea. India. Smartless goes to India. I've been wa I wa I watch a little bit of um uh Indian this is true, Indian Premier League cricket uh from time to time. I and uh there's this new Kitty plays. Forget what yeah, the IP on this kid, he's fifteen. He's un he's like this.

Yeah, he plays for one of the teams no he play well, I don't know if he's playing for the national team yet. He's playing for one of the teams in the IPL right now. This kid is having I I actually watched the game where he he he was out after one run, but he this kid is like an absolute sensation. He's fifteen and everybody else is way older. I love cricket. You think the audience is hanging on to this particular section about the Indian Cricket League?

I don't know You think they're fucking too? Yeah, they are. Let me tell you something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just straightened himself. Uh well yeah, you you should you should go to India. My so Priyanka's been shooting their this movie um by the directive it did uh R R R that was his was his last film. Oh sure, sure, sure. Yeah. That that that was that got a lot of great notice.

Yeah, big Indian kind of epic film and she's she's not done a a movie there in in about eight years, so it's it's a big big deal her return. You know, she did s eighty something movies before she started. Yeah, today's a little bit more. Famous industry over there. Over eighty films? Over eighty films, yeah. She's seventy five years old, Will. It's a really it's a fascinating thing though, you know, the the the way in which they the Indian audience reveres their their film talent, their stars.

is uh it's like unlike anything I've ever s seen before. Um and it's an obvious it's obviously an an enormous audience, you know, over a billion people in India. And then globally the reach is so big and there's a bunch of projects that are are really starting to make a huge impact globally now as well, which is exciting to see. The the culture there I what I've I hear that weddings are a major uh thing. Um did you guys have uh uh a bit of an of an Indian wedding or or no? We did.

We we were friends for about a year, um, before we started dating and and then once we started dating it all happened very fast. Um we just both just kind of knew So, you know, first real date was in May and then by July we were engaged and then and married in December the same year. Wow. That's awesome. Well, how did you guys meet? We had a mutual friend who kept saying, um, you know

You guys will really hit it off. I'm gonna connect you. And he never did and I got frustrated waiting and I saw a billboard of her on Sunset Boulevard for her show Quantico and was like, you know what, fuck it. I'm gonna see if she follows me on on Twitter and she did. Wow.

And so I messaged her and we went back and forth for a bit. We met for a drink, uh, just kind of casually in New York, um, and and it took you know, a year or a year and a half for us to to really say, All right, let's let's f separate the time in in our schedules to just like give this a a go, go on a date and see what happens and so we did and it was literally, you know, instant and and we both just kind of knew

Flash forward to the wedding, um We decided to do it in India and we were scrambling to to find a place to do it because we had spoken to uh Priyanka's mother's um pundit hit her her spiritual guide and and astrologer and and they had said that the best window, the most auspicious window would be in in December. Um So we're like, all right, we gotta find a wedding venue and she showed me this video of his commercial that she had shot at this this place, this this palace in in in India.

Um and she's like, There's no way this would ever be available. What when I shot here ten years ago I said I want to get married there someday. Oh. So her her friend who is with us, uh her best friend and her uh her best friend's uh husband, he's like, let me just cold call them right now and see if they're available for these dates. And he w stepped out of the room and he came back about ten minutes later he goes They're available.

It's the one weekend this entire year that they have available for a wedding. Wow.

How crazy is that? So yeah, we did we did uh what's called a Sangit ceremony, which is the first night basically. It's a really fun um tradition where the families the whole thing is about not just the couple, but introducing the families and integrating them together. And there's the spirit of competition that comes along with Indian weddings. So you basically do a performance

and you you battle and the family that that wins the performance is the more dominant uh family. So on her side you have like her a a global Bollywood icon and Hollywood star, along with a bunch of her cousins and other folks in her family who are also Indian film stars. And then on our side, you've got the motherfucking Jonas brothers. And our friends and family. It's like a song like a song competition, dance competition, but

A show. And I'm not even kidding you. There was like a forty-five minute show. Um She crushed it, her her her side crushed it, and then we came out and I walked out. Cause you know, they they did what um the actors do in in Indian cinema, which is that there's uh a playback singer, it's called, um, or or an artist, but then the actors on screen

in character lip synced to the song. Right. Right. Um although it's a different singer. Right. Um so they did that and I walked out and got on the mic and said, you know, we have one thing Yeah, that was an amazing performance and you all crushed it and were humbled and honored to get to to go after you. But uh we have one thing that that you don't live microphones. And then we started.

Was there is there a strategy to going first or second? Like you did you guys flip a coin to see who who would start? We we didn't flip a coin it just kinda happened that way and I'm glad it did because You know, it put the fear of God in all my friends and family when we were backstage after and was like

We gotta hold the fucking line. They brought it. Like now's the time. I've never needed you more. Um and it so that we did that, then basically we did a like a Western Christian wedding. Yeah. Um And then the following day was was the Indian ceremony. Um so so three nights. And by the way, that's that's a a short Considered a short Indian wedding. Usually they they can go up to, you know, a week or two.

I was just I was just thinking, I was imagining if we introduced that here in America, the sort of the competition element to a wedding and I'm just thinking of like a wedding up in Massachusetts of two families like Fuck you Yeah you better That was true No it's very fucking immediately like, Yeah, we go let's fucking let's kill these clowns. Fucking you know Total bro. Yeah, wow, that's so cool. That is really cool. I can't believe it's already been an hour.

We didn't get to much. I know it's just But so much. It's a good it's always a good sign when when you just roll through. Uh Nick man, you're such a talent dude. You're such a great dude and uh just love what you do and such so much admiration for all of it and just Yeah, same. But thanks for making time. Well, you're there at work, right? You're in your trailer there. Thank you for doing this now. Of course. And I I'd love to come back next time with the bros too.

We'd love that. We'd love that. Some golf, you know, we gotta get it all done. Yeah, let's get it all done. Thanks for having me guys. This was awesome. We can workshop the dog play too, you know? Okay, you know what, that's it for Nick, okay? So Jason, we're good, okay? Somebody cut off Jason's mic. Uh thank you, Nick. Thank you. Exactly. Thanks, buddy. See you again. Right, pal. See you later. Bye. That's Nick Jonas. That is Nick Jonas. Yeah. What an impressive dude.

Uh oh yeah, when I saw when I saw him backstage with Golden Globes with Priyanka, the it was just m us three. We we were chatting for like you know, like a half an hour. It was great. It was so cool. Do you think they rolled their eyes after they walked away from you? Yeah absolutely. Who the fuck is that? Why is that guy talking about? It was. It was good. And why did they let such random people back? I don't care cooking s'mores? Wearing slippers to an award show? Ha ha ha.

Wearing could you imagine by the way, that sounds like a dream. But I uh it's very admirable that he is um, you know, just thriving and incredibly relevant and working like a dog and um you know, he's he's made that transition from child star to to adult. Yeah. I mean and started on Broadway. Actually, I didn't even mention that he and I years ago went to a hospital here in Los Angeles around the holidays.

and uh and visiting with all these these kids were sick and he brought his guitar and he played songs for all these kids individually and it was so yeah, it was so moving. Like he was just giv he was so generous. Yeah, and doesn't stop with this time like that. Like that or or or I mean going from movie to concert to the a recording studio to the i i it's uh it's exhausting. Sounds exhausting. Oh. Oh. oh that was that i thought that was I thought you were.

No but they but they do have a Comes down here. They do have a a you know, a a song, a title called Goodbye. It's um it's an album or a song or something. So We gotta give you a quick lesson on how to do the buy thing. Um Well, there's a song I mean, well I will say this. I will say that like his you know, he like he's got the music and the and the acting and all this stuff. And so like how does he decide how he's going to with his career how he's going to Like to Those two talents.

Bye. Yeah. It's gotta be the worst part of every episode. Smartless is one hundred percent organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbico, and Michael Granteri. Smart. Last. Have serious XM in your car? Listen free from now until June 1st. Enjoy 100 plus channels of And the best. the Sirius XM5. For a free ride today. Offer ends June 1st, 2026. Why? Visit SiriusX. Sirius XM, your drive then.