"Cillian Murphy"

Welcome to the cold open of this episode of Smartless. I'm freezing. You know, it'd be great if our net was here to warm this cold open up a little bit. I don't think he's available. No, he's not available. We should just start. Let's just start. Oh god, look at all these goozies on my Welcome to Spartan. Guess what I just finished watching? Moments I got Um a pizza pocket heat up in the microwave. Oh wait. Now let me try. Um it's something with Scotty. I don't have it yet.

Um your zipper on your pants not be able to close. Oh wait, I know what it is. It's the top button on your trousers flying across a room and breaking a light bulb. No, I just watched the first literally ten minutes ago finished watching Uh D T F St. Louis, the first episode. Oh, yeah. Let me tell you, it is

So good. It is a ride up my alley. Is it and and Jay, another incredible character by you. Oh thank you. Like really, like so different. Really quick question. Did you did you say it's a ride up your alley? To ride up your alley. He's been saying it wrong for years, Will. Don't stop him now. No, it's right up my alley.

The way it's shot and of course performed, you're brilliant. It's so good, Jason. I can't wait to see it. You're so good in it. Writer director. I mean that swing, just the shot of the swing, that's all I'll say. I mean, that's so smart. It's so cool. And it gets real, real, real, real, real crazy. It's it's and the ending of the first episode. Wow. Thank you for watching that, you sweet man. It's so good. You're so good.

Do you I I don't know if I've ever admitted this on this show before, but speaking of saying things wrong for years. Yeah. Oh shit. And this is I'll I'll attribute this to not reading a lot. You know, I'm allergic to books and I'm not proud of that. Yeah. Um, because I feel if I had I seen this written, I wouldn't have made the mistake all these years. But I've always thought that Um, when you say the phrase, I'm just trying to make ends meet.

I thought that was a phrase that one would say when they're saying Listen, I'm just trying to get by with just the bare minimum. I'm I I I'm not being greedy. I'm not entitled. I'm just trying to make ends meet, meaning I'm just looking for the part of the cow that doesn't cost a lot. I just need sustenance. I need some food. I'm looking for ends meat like M-E-A-T, the end of the cow, the ass, which is not gonna cost you a lot.

This is what my stupid head This is what you're working on right now. I'm fifty seven and this was this was probably a couple of years ago. I was fifty five until I realized that it is It is ends of you know, strings or whatever, creating a circle. A pr you want these ends to meet and create a whole thing and Which can can mean something similar to I'm just

trying to make it all come together for myself. You're trying to do stuff within your budget to make it. Yeah, it wasn't a proud moment for me. Um but I'm not beyond admitting my my my my my flaws. I'm just trying to think of like the gotcha headlines and the various social media stuff about this. Oh no, this will be cut.

No, this is just for you you, me, and and your guest. Well, we can't cut this. Speaking of what kind of cut is that at the end of the cow that you're talking about? You're talking about your plank stake? Well the flank is it's often it's often called the flank where where the end that's not the end. Wait, but you know that like I love you know that. Remember the I loved like sayings and their origin or origination what is stupid.

Yeah. This is where they origin uh originated from this tough day for me. Go ahead. And where they originated from, you know what I mean? And so remember I did the saved by the bell, I told you guys about saved by the bell where that's a Did an episode or like an arc? No, no, where that saying comes from. Oh. Remember the guy people used to get buried, remember I told you?

Or they used to get mar buried alive and they didn't know it at the time because people like who were unconscious, they just thought they were dead, so they'd bury them in these coffins. Then they'd dig them back up to reuse the coffins and they saw these scratch marks. So they so they're like, oh my God, we've been burying people alive. So they bury people alive, they tie a string to their toe, they fly, they uh put it through the string.

ground and tie it to a bell and you're saved by the bell if the bell goes off. And the person who had to sit there and wait to see if the bell went off worked to the graveyard ship. Wow. Okay. And this so this is what you thought Saved by the Bell was for years. No, that is what it is. It's not. It's a boxing thing. Well, evidently it or originated with the with this, JB. That's right. Really? Yes. I'm telling you.

Wait, so hang on. So Will, you're taking that's news to you and you're going with Sean? That's that's that's news to me. I do vaguely remember Sean mentioning this before. Yeah. Well that doesn't make it true. He's just repeating insanely I mean we can I'm sure people could just look it up as they're listening to this right now. I I don't know why we would. That's where it comes from.

Comes from the we're gonna have our fact checkers get on that while we're while we're uh walking fact checkers now? Yeah, yeah. So let's have them do that. We'll go ahead, introduce your guest.

Um and let's get on with it. Shoot, Jason. This is a little runner that's I've been having trying to get Will panicked about it. Did you think did I ever get panicked about it? No, I don't think it worked. It's my guess, and I'm so excited. And Willie, I think you're gonna be excited too. I think I remember I think it was you telling me that you're just a kooky fan for this fella. And I don't blame you because I am too. Gentlemen. I'm not gonna care.

No. Great. Let's start. Let's start. It's gonna be a great hour for you, Sean. No, you will. Everybody everybody freaks on this guy for very good reason. Um have you searched For the answer to the age-old question, what should I do after pursuing rock stardom and being a lawyer? Well, our guest this week has the answer.

You become one of the finest actors on the planet. You go out there, you work with the best directors in the world, you turn in some of the most powerful and moving performances ever, and then you grab yourself an armful of awards, including the little gold guy named Oscar. He's done three careers worth of work already in his thirty years of performing and it's been theater and film and television, but one of those television products.

Projects is now a film and he's here to talk to us about that. Gentlemen Please welcome Tommy Shelby himself, mister Killian Murphy. Oh my god. Here with us today. How's it going? Hi Kelly. How cool. So nice to meet you. Hey man. Nice to meet you. That was a lovely introduction. Thank you. Um where what time is it for you today now?

Like nearly six PM in London. Oh, all right. Now does that if you're like me, you're about an hour away from sleep. Are you are you in are you in comfy socks? Are you getting ready to to get horizontal or are you about to start your night? I do start thinking about bed from yeah, about half past five. Yeah. That is that is true. So we're keeping you up right now. Yeah. Well no, I mean I'm just thinking about it. Yeah. But I will be approaching I g I'd I'll be in bed by like half nine.

Right? It's you're good you're good We're all we're all in the same so Yeah, I think the four of us are very good at relaxing and taking it easy. Now is that because We're of a certain age or is it because we've all really been good at uh getting after it and we're kind of We're kind of done with that. Yeah. Right? I did it, and now I want to enjoy uh the relaxation of wisdom and age.

I I dun I mean, what do you guys think? What's what's what's your Well I I'm I'm a hundred percent agree with Jason, although I'm just gonna ask you, Killian, is like the having d I'm doing theater right now and I know you've done a lot of theater and it's like all of a sudden you have to Retrain your brain to be have the most energy at 8 PM. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's like of the whole day, you have to have most most of your energy at 8 PM. And boy, it's rough.

Are you going on stage tonight? Uh tomorrow our my quote unquote week starts Wednesday. He's and he's doing a one man show, Killian. I think you've done you've done one of those, haven't you? I certainly have. Yeah. Wow. Good man. It's a lot. That's like the fucking Everest of acting. That's what I got. It's pretty rough. Did you ever ha well, Shawnee, I haven't asked you. I'll ask you both at the same time. Has there been a wipeout?

Yet? Like a total like'cause that that's my fear. Like there's no net. There's no there's no actor you can find the eyes of and sort of communicate silently. I have no idea what I'm supposed to say next, throw me a line. Yeah, my line the other night was um uh he tells me the line is he tells me two kids came forward to confess to it. It was an accident. That's the line. And three show three or four shows ago, literally on stage.

Um he uh four wheel slide. I go, teenagers ran their car into'em, killed him. And then I just started But By the way, I'm sure the audience probably did not know this. And for you it seemed like interminable. Like yeah, yeah, yeah. But was it but isn't isn't the line you have forgotten linked? to the line that follows it. And so you can't just improvise the line you can't remember because

that doesn't shine any light on the next thing you're supposed to say. But but but you do know the kind of the context. You just kind of forget the word order. So then you paraphrase until you get back on the train. Yeah, you get back So you got right back on and it was all right. Yeah, yeah, it was fine. Killian, any any any n any nightmare like that? Yeah.

I you know what you know the way if when you're doing theater it's like the you got like the left hand side and the right hand side you got the sort of stage manager side of your brain and you got the acting side of your brain, right? So you got the stage manager side going Right, you drop the prop back there, so you gotta go back and pick up the prop while you're saying the lines. That's right.

Yeah. A and they're acting similar they're they're running parallel. So you've got this kind of m management in your head going, Well, we gotta fix this and then the other side is talking. Exactly. I I did probably but I was it was like I c I quite liked not having to rely on the you know, the terrified eyes across the stage to some other actor like saying Can you pick up the fucking pr knife that was not supposed Um So I quite enjoyed it. But what I did find and I don't know about you, Sean,

I could not sleep after it. I could not go to sleep. It's been roughly Yeah. Just wired. Yeah. Absolutely it was like being thrown out of a helicopter. I could not sleep. How are you about about the folks coming backstage and wanting to congratulate you and and talk a little bit? Like are you I I would imagine that I'm obsessed with this. I mean'cause I don't want to be fucking bothered.

For the most part at any point in the day. This will keep you from doing Broadway. This w this very thing will keep you from doing Broadway. I'm with you though, Jay. But I just feel like I I would feel s I would feel burdened to make the person feel comfortable. Right. Backstage and uh and and I would just feel their awkwardness and I would feel like I I need to host them now and I need to but just'cause I want I don't want fee people to feel uncomfortable. So

I j like I'm still working. I'm still on. And and do you do you feel that either one of you guys with that moment? Killian? Um I yeah, I and I I would be I think when I was younger I would t I I would always be up for the like come back to the dressing room and we'll have a drink and we'll go out. But then as I got older I just couldn't fake it, I think, any longer. Just and then and then but I but equally I couldn't sleep. So I didn't know what to do. Like I didn't go for a long walk.

Because the adrenaline you mean still? Yeah. And then go to the pub. I didn't want to go to the pub. Sit alone drinking, not a good idea. So what do you like what do you do? I don't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. Yeah.

Well can I ask you this this is another thing I'm fascinated with and you guys plug yours, you've heard me twat on about this before, but uh is is is it the same practice Overseas there that it is apparently in New York, where if you are famous, even pseudo famous, You are obligated you are obligated to go backstage and pay your respects and say hi. Even if the actor, even if you don't know the actor, any of the actors, and they don't know that you're there.

Yeah. Like i is that apparent what I've heard is that y it's very rude to just watch the show and leave if you're of any sort of uh notoriety. Is that is that the same thing in in over there? Do you guys go back do you guys go back? Sometimes. I'm I my other half makes me go back.

So you'd pr you'd prefer not to, but you you recognize that there there is a there is a practice, there is a tradition, there's an obligation. Yeah, there's like a little pressure. Like if if they know that you're in the audience because the stage manager comes up and says,

They would love to say hi or if you're not going to be able to do that. Yeah, well if they do that then of course. Then you do that. That's just that's just courteous. But if they but if you don't know the person and they they haven't made that connection, I think you're well within your right to just sort of

Yeah, I mean I've had people come that don't that don't come back. I don't take I don't think anything about But even if they've they they they're not in house seats or anything like that. So there's no way for them to assume

assume that you know that they're there. I went to see Sha I went I went to see Sean in previews. I went to see Sean in previews. I didn't tell him and I just left. I didn't even go and say hi to him. Oh, and it wasn't until we well went together that I that I went backstage. Not true, Sean. Not true. So Killian, it's the sa same thing overseas.

As far as the practice attribution, I mean I I can't it people peop people do I remember once I was in I was doing a show in New York and I had a night off like you have, Sean, and uh at the time John Hurt was doing Crap's Last Tape. And I went to see the the play and it was unbelievable and it was you know it was John Hurt. And the stage manager came up and said, Would you like to go back and meet Mr. Hurt? And I went

I was doing a show at the same time and I thought would I like John Hurt to come back to see me? No, I wasn't comparing myself to John Hurt, but I and I went to the house. You know what? I think he's probably a bit tired, I'm gonna just leave him. So I just left. And then afterwards I went, You fucking idiot, why didn't you not go back and meet John Early? He's like one of my acting heroes. Right. But I didn't'cause I felt he might be a little

Right. And it's like you're famous, I'm famous, so I thought I'd come back and say hi. That's that's the thing that sort of cringes me out about it. But I but I hear that it's actually the opposite that it's It's uh it's you should bring it up more often, Jay. Yeah, I don't know. Wait, I want to hear about Ilian's uh uh musical career. I I I didn't know this about you. Uh can you expand on that a little bit?

Yeah. It seems to be Excuse me, it seems to be quite common, doesn't it? I uh I I that there's a lot of frustrated musicians in acting. I I've encountered lots of them and yeah and Yeah, it's initially what in I'm sure there's probably so so some of you guys are among them, but I I I I that's all I wanted to do from the very beginning was play music and um

Uh that's when I saw you, Jason, was at the radio head show. Yeah. Um but um and then obviously it didn't work out and uh So I kind of moved into theater, I think, for to try and get that live experience, you know, the that connection with an audience that you get when you play music and then And then I just that that just became the main thing. But it was always music, yeah. My first love.

I didn't know that what I are you in a band? I'm I'm sorry, forgive me if you're No, I mean you should why would you I don't expect to his brother Uh and and and what is it true is the story is this is Wikipedia facts, so forgive our our uh rigorous journalism skills. Um But uh uh you guys were you guys had had a band together and then there was a record label that wanted you to sign, but y you were like

This smells like maybe an overreach and so let's not sign and then things kind of transitioned into theater and that became your passion. Was that kind of the way it went? More or less, yeah. I more or less. Like it was My brother was still in he was playing keys in the band and he was he was only sixteen or something when we were offered the record deal. So my parents uh said absolutely verboden you're not like ruining your life. You

they they said to me, I can ruin my life, but then we just didn't But Patty were gonna protect. Yeah. So we it just all kind of fell apart. Yeah. But um And then I'd never been to the theatre before that and then after that I saw a play in Cork City where I'm from, w which was like Exactly yeah. Uh huh. And it was a a promenade version of that play and absolutely Absolutely like I just I it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. Had you seen the film before that?

I not at that it was banned in Ireland. No, it was banned in Ireland for the first time I saw it was I bought a VHS copy of it in Canada. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. My grandpa's gonna be a big. We love it. My my grandfather's from Dingle. My grandmother is from County Carey. Yeah. Oh man, I mean uh I I spent a lot of time in in Dingle and around It's beautiful, right? Uh it's like my favorite place in the world. Oh yeah, it's beautiful. Shawnee have you been over there?

Yeah, just once. Um I I it's just absol to ding I mean to Ireland a couple of times, but to dingle just once I still have a I still we have stuff cousins like distant cousins I think that still live there. Oh my but yeah it's really gonna say I still have a sweatshirt that says uh I got this single berry. Uh

So you so so the the first p so the first time you really experienced the theaters when you saw Clockwork Orange on stage. Yeah, is that what your s is that what your testimony is, uh Julia? Is that we have your answer right? Yeah. Well how did that how did that how did that moment go? Because your your your parents are both educators, yes. Correct. Yeah. Um and so w this this

this conversation of he hey, I um uh I've got good news and and uh and and and even better news. Uh I'm I'm stopping my my pursuit of rock and roll and I'm uh And I'm going into theater. Was that were they were they uh buoyed by that or were they like no Killian uh W were they all right with it? Um I th like I was

You mentioned I I had a very short uh flirtation with like law law. I did like a year uh of a law degree and I failed like abysmally and then I try to get the repeats and then I got the repeats and then I got a part of the play. So I think by that stage, Jade kind of gone, like whatever. Just he's gonna do he's gonna do his thing. You know, I was tw I was twenty then. So it's that's when you're meant to make mistakes, isn't it?

Yeah, and sort of and declare I'm not really sure, but I'm following some instincts and uh those are gonna change. Listen, Killian, I'm continuing making mistakes and I'm fifty five. Uh but but Uh I I am uh as I said the other day, I'm firmly in the student section in life. I I've finally come to that realization that I'm like, it's okay.

Well your tan and the ceiling fan looks like you're you're doing all right right now. Yeah. It is. I know. It's really going I'm sorry about that. I I had to walk around to find the best place to get internet and I'm not getting checking out what has the best right.

Here we go. We've got a monkey on a wheel, you know, this is keeping the the Wi-Fi going. But I'm curious about I'm curious about you getting your deciding to to try to get a law degree, like that that decision. And then while you're doing that thinking the whole time Wait a second, I'd rather be doing theater, like I've been affected by this, I've got this thought. Is that kind of how did that all kind of transpire?

Uh I think I had just had that natural inclination to perform, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. You know, just from the very early age. I just I'm quite a shy person, but I I really enjoy Getting up on a stage. I hate getting up a stage as myself, but I love getting up on stage as someone else or playing music. Isn't that a weird thing where y you know, I I think all all four of us are are, you know

Proudly private people. Um we don't we're not shy per se because of what we do, but like Isn't it isn't it an interesting thing where we we'll sit there in front of a camera and be exposed to millions and millions of people, you know, wanting, uh hoping in a perfect world, millions of people are going to watch what I am doing, yet. w we we sort of shy away from being um

you know, the center of attention uh often when we when we go out or or or we even when we go out to promote that thing that we want people to see. We're sort of like, I mean I'll speak for myself. It's just like oh I I I I I gotta go out and talk about it. over here and over there and kinda light my hair on fire. It is sort of the the two things are kind of at odds with one another. The this the

Uh well one's controlled and one isn't. Yeah. That's a very good point. That's true. That's true. What's your what's your what's your favorite way, uh Killian, to interact with fans. Like when is it when is it comfortable for you? I think I think I know what my answer would be. But Well tell me yours because uh tell me yours. I I feel I f if it if it's one on one And them

Us talking is not going to cause um a a larger sort of spectacle um and cause a scene. Like I don't want to embarrass mm myself, my kids, them, you know, c create a So like in an elevator. If it's just me and one person and you know, uh and we we can have a little conversation as opposed to oh take a picture here and then the people walking by look at what what's going on here. Oh, maybe I should get a picture too. Oh yeah, I recognize that person. Like and then it becomes a thing.

And then y yeah, I don't know. Um I I I like sort of the one on one stuff. What about you? That's I'm the same. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I love I love a chat. I love when yeah, we have a real chat and someone has really enjoyed

Something you've done. Right. Like particularly like, you know, we've all been in shows that have run a long time and people love the people are get very invested in characters, right? And and and and And so you have to acknowledge that investment and that they've spent that much time with your characters and And I love those conversations. You know? Um I don't like when stuff gets like fetishized.

He's going to the shop to buy milk, oh my god. He's just like us. Right. Right right. But I love a I love a conversation. Right. And we will be right back. And now back to the show.

Are you able at times to have the same kind of experience with your characters that that some of your fans might? In other words, are you able to watch what you do and and enjoy it from an audience point of view or or or can you not get the separation from um your experience inside the character?

Well that's a great question. And and I'd love to hear what you guys think about it. Well f well start with like do you uh do you watch your own stuff or you or are you an actor that the j uh uh'cause I I know I know both, both very, very good actors. that watch themselves and learn from that and then others that they they they can't and they won't.

Well it's different jobs sometimes, isn't it? Like this Peaky Blinders film, like we had the premiere last night in Burma. I just watched it two nights ago. It's incredible. Incredible. I can't wait to see there. It was very cool and and uh but I was producer on that so I seen the thing like five hundred times. So you know, I like w um it was a very dis

different kind of um experience watching it too. You know, when you just turn up and as a higher an actor for hire and you and you do your work and then you see. And some stuff I've never seen at all. Um and some stuff I'm immensely proud of. But again, I I mean it I feel like I try to move forward with everything, then it's like about the next

Thing rather than going backwards. What what about you guys? What what's your take on it? I don't uh do any of you sit around watching your work endlessly? No. How I wake up every morning. I can't get out of bed without it. Um like what about what about like on set? Will you ever watch a little bit of playback to even at the like the beginning of the production just to get a sense of

how you're coming across, how they're lighting you, little lenses or just to get a feel of the tone of it. Occasionally f like particularly for technical stuff. Like uh like you know, like stuff that's technical or like a stunt or whatever. But I I know I would never go back and look at like um

But the producing thing has been interesting because it takes the curse off it a little bit. Like it may you know, you you you look at it and you just go, Oh my god, that's how you look and then you just go, right? But it's important for this Character to do this and this guy's gotta enter here and she's gotta say this and we gotta cut here and then and then you it takes a curse off it.

Sure. Well y you look at you and you look at it through a different lens, obviously, right? So you just like this thing that I did last year, I I spent a lot of time having to watch different cuts and stuff and eventually got to a place where I got over watching myself and and

was actually able to watch it really objectively. Yes. About wait, are we telling the s are we telling the best version of the story? We should go back, we should tell are we telling the best version? Is this the best take w but all these kinds of things, you know, and and And it did as you say sort of break the curse a little bit. I was no longer watching my performance, I was watching a bigger a bigger thing. Zero. Zero. Yeah, I always think I always think I'm zero.

slightly better looking than I actually am. And then I'll watch it, I'll go, nope, then no you're not. You're not at all actually. Turn it up close to

Close to being what you thought you looked like. I know. Um Well uh Killian, well f uh w w was there uh speaking of of of music and then law and all this w was there ever a moment Where And thank God you didn't. But was there ever a moment where you thought, Yeah, maybe this acting thing, that let's put that in the bin as well. Let's try career path number four and and go into uh industry X or occupation Y. Um w did you ever think about about giving up on on doing this?

No no really after a period you kind of like you burnt your bridges I think and there's nothing else available really. Then then the and during the fallow periods obviously get really cranky and like back as it but but and I dunno like I'm not a writer, I'm definitely not a writer and uh so I didn't have that. But I would go and play music in the kind of fallow bits or just, you know, um

Just go and just watch movies and read books. But it it it I didn't know, I never got to the stage where I thought. Ah, fuck this. But I I did g whenever the stuff started to get kind of dry up in film or television, I was very lucky to have um a friend of mine called Ender Walsh who who I made an awful lot of theatre with and Um we we we did some really great plays. He gave me my first ever play part in a play after I saw Clockwork Orange when I was like t uh nineteen or twenty.

And so I continued to work with him making t like new plays throughout my thirties and forties and that kinda kept me sane. I think, you know, when there's stuff kind of just k i people aren't calling, you know? Yeah. Wow, that's great. That's great. So you established like so long ago this this uh collaboration and you've managed to sort of keep it going for all these years. Yeah, I haven't done a play in a while now'cause yeah. Um it's

kinda become a little terrifying to me. And uh honestly, I'm a little'cause you're worried about Jason Bateman coming backstage and saying hello after the show. Yeah, just is that is that what's keeping you away? Killian, it's me again. I just I've come back for one more night. I want every theater to put up Jason's picture backstage and do not let this guy back here.

Super eager, will not leave. So you start going to try to do it and they're like, No, no, we're good. And the real thing is. Send up the warning.

Um is there is there something that you have uh is there is there is there some sort of Advice that you have you've you've gained uh with your experience now that you wish you could go back and tell that dude. back then that don't worry about the fallow periods. The it's gonna be is there is there something that you wish you would have known then that would have made those those ups and those downs a bit more tolerable? Yeah.

Mm, this is a great question. Um I mean aside from don't worry you're gonna win an Oscar one day, hang in there. Um you know Yeah, that would definitely lighten the mood. Yeah. I I don't know. I think it's that thing about Overthinking stuff. Oh you know, overthinking it. O over intellectualising everything and

Not sticking to your instinct I think is the key thing i for artists. What is that? I know, but what is that healthy balance? Because I've always heard that with with with everything in in in life, with all of us. I think we've all heard somebody say us, ah, you're overthinking it. But like isn't How do you know what the difference is between overthinking and just using the intelligence that you that that you've been working on? You know, it's like we're we work hard to be.

smart or at least we think that we're smart. And so how do you know when to pull back on that? I just don't know. Well how what's your what's your guys' approach to like prep then, for example? Because sometimes I would get so over It would just take up everything and everything we're all consuming.

Because the h but then the whole point when you get into a scene is that you you have to be completely free of all that. No way. So it's kind of counter intuitive or counterproductive to have all of that prep sometimes. But yet you think your duty is to do all of that. So what what what how what how how what have you shifted for me? It's shifted for I was got I was in I was uh different from Jason because I was blown away that and I may maybe you do this too well.

Do do this too, Will. time I step on set or walk out on the rehearsal room or whatever it is. Because if I if I'm f have my book in my hand or whatever, I just can't be free, like you're saying, Killian, to explore and bring where Jason has said in the past where you don't make choices, you just literally memorize the words and then you work on it. And rehearsal. But I don't even memorize the words because I f uh m my pardon the term process when I memorize has a lot to do with my imagination of

of of kind of how that's going to kind of go. And I don't like to d decide or or or or start to approach a decision of how I'm gonna do something. until I see and understand what the other actors are gonna be doing and what the director is looking for and how the scene is blocked and where camera's gonna be and all that stuff. Because If I predetermine how I'm gonna do something and what my faces are gonna look like and the wires, you know, it might not work with what the other people are doing.

Yeah. I started doing I started memorizing in in really monotone ways. I it's truly. I started memorizing monotone way and recording myself. This is this is true. Yeah. Uh and it with a very monotone voice so that I had zero inflection. And crossing out all stage direction. And just taking all of that away. And uh I did get into a situation I was working on this thing and I got there and they're like,

Um now you've you've gotta go and get the thing on the other side of the room. I'm like, Oh, do I? I didn't even know that I had a you know, but because I but but actually it i it it was very helpful because it just happened very organically and I hadn't thought about that. And so It's really shifted as I've gotten older how how I look at it and my preparation is so much different now than it was and also J B I think about like when we were when we used to do

Arrested Development, for instance. It was much more uh Sean, it's a T V show. Yeah, it's a TV show. It's not it used to be a band. Um, we got sued by them. Um I think for me I think for f when you're when you're

I I used to think about sort of prepping for to do comedy especially because it was so quick and it would happen so that that it it didn't serve me certainly. And I know that you were similar in this way, JB, because we did a lot of scenes together, that it was i you you just kept it It was all kind of just at the surface un until you got there.

Uh right, because that that puts that that increases my odds of reacting to you like the audience is is experiencing it. Yeah, it's so much about rhythm and comedy in that way. Rhythm is the big thing, I think. The meaning can come after the rhythm or I guess for you guys like if the if the the comedy or the gag or the bit that comes a but like if you get into a rhythm with a s in a scene And if you I guess if you have a predetermined rhythm.

And then how are you gonna lock in with anyone else? Like a you can't you can't and you can't you you you need to stay nimble. to allow for shit to happen. But I do think it's different for theater because I would be the same as you, Sean. Like with a th with a with a theater piece, I would be completely off book when I get to Yeah. But you also ha and and here's the difference. You also have a theater

by the time you get there you're in and you're in rehearsal. I mean Sean, I know you for instance in this and also for for Goodnight Oscar. What a show uh that you that you were s completely off book. Yeah. And then and then but then you get into previews and now you've got a couple of weeks of previews and that sort of and it changes and that starts to eat away at all your predetermined stuff that you have. So you don't but you don't have that luxury when you're making a film.

The the the performance is the one is that day. And that's it. Yeah, it's funny. You know it's funny. There there is this one line where I reference a very famous musical in this current show. And one of the producers of this famous musical came to the show and didn't like that we mentioned his musical that he produced. So it's a seventy five minute monologue. I d it's just me. And for so we had to change the one word to another musical.

Huh. And so for from the time you started, all I thought about from the time the curtain opened was that one word I had. And I was like, Oh shit. From the time you started. Yeah. I was like, thanks a lot, dude. Um, uh, Killian, twenty-eight days uh later, um that was uh

Uh first film? No. No, I'd done a few films in Ireland, kind of small independent films in Ireland. This is this is the one that that uh that that What a film. Yeah. Put put put you on a lot of a lot of radars. Um and um Did it did it did it feel like okay, I've got a little bit of wind at my back now, um and uh this this might work out. Yes or Yeah, yeah, I think so at that stage.

The film like we never expected the film to do well and it did well and But you did have Danny Boyle. I mean you knew your your odds were good, right? I mean They were good. They were uh'cause he's a master. Sure. And I had like his posters of his films on my wall in my bedroom growing up, you know. Like before I ever became a an actor and

'Cause you they were just so cool, like train spotting and Charlotte Graves. I love train spotting and Charlotte Grave. I mean, it's a masterpiece. And um But the thing about it was that zombie genre was wasn't very cool at the time or wasn't really like There hadn't been a kind of a zombie thing. Right. And even though this is technically like an infection, they're not undead. But anyway, at that time that we shot it. Like it was two the summer of two thousand and one and then

Then obviously like nine eleven happened and then I th but before that SARS had happened and then and then obviously all those years later like Covid happened and then it became this kind of meme and yeah. It's a very prescient writing, very good writing. Yeah. And and people went nuts for it, the original movie. So Yeah, I I ca it was a great i st start. But I went through the ringer for that movie, like

Danny I had like five or six auditions for that to to get the parks uh done very little at the time and yeah. I I kinda knew it was a real substantial script, but Alex Garland wrote the script and Danny directed it in. Great writer. Yeah. What was the moment from your last audition? When did you find out that you

Got it. I after going through all the auditions and being like Jesus Christ. You remember that moment? You remember where you went I do actually. I was I was I do. I was in an air I was in a s I was in Stansted Airport in the Kew to get a Reinar flight back to Dublin. And Danny called me Yeah, I had to do one of those like uh unbelievably contained uh huh you know uh uh celebrations where you're like drop my bag and sit down and kind of but um

Uh yeah, it was it was massive for me, that movie. It's fucking Twenty twenty three years ago or something. Wow. Uh now he he he talks often, doesn't he, about energy over perfection. Do I have that right? His his sort of His MO on on on set. Can you can you explain what what he might mean by that? What what it's what it's what his direction, his environment is like, what that set is like, what his what his style is like?

Sounds about right. Yeah, he he's incredible energy and passion for it. He like he never stops moving, he never stops. uh like he's on every single element of the of the of the set. Um And it and it's constant uh ideas, constant um he's constantly um pushing, you know, and really pushing the actors and pushing every department. Um And i i i i I I absolutely loved that at that age. I don't think I'd been in you know, working with someone who was so

coherent in their vision for the film, if you if you know what I mean. Yeah, sure. Just full enthusiasm and just knows of all four corners of what this scene's supposed to do and how it's supposed to be done. Yeah. And it's infectious and every time you think Oh, I thought that was pretty good, like y you know, you're off again. And he we shot that on domestic cameras, like these little do you remember in the early two thousands everyone had these little cameras with

cards in them and stuff. So they were all like stuff you could buy and so that's like camcorders almost. Yeah. Yeah. They were slightly more advanced. I can't remember what at the format is, but anyway, it was just one of those movies that kinda clicked, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

Is it wildly different than, you know, w what an incredible collaboration you've had with Christopher Nolan. Um projects, right? Incredible. Um th that from what I from what I understand, uh what I've heard is um um uh a more s uh a exacting and and and and contained and and deliberate approach. um to to the execution, yes or no? And and uh you know, to the extent you're comfortable talking about it,'cause um I I I I would assume that um

You know, environments on s on sets. Well it not assume, I know. Uh they're they're often private. you know, individual environments that are are weird to re describe, but um Uh it just strikes me having not many actors get to work with the same director, six different projects. Uh I'd imagine you guys have a bit of a shorthand and and a a real comfort in uh each other's style.

Oh yeah, I mean I I've I've learned so much from Chris. He's completely kind of shaped my whole c career. I mean, it's it's very clear like work working over twenty years. But he's a he's Absolutely remarkable. He is incredibly rigorous, incredibly uh precise, but

Within that there's fantastic freedom. Yeah. But you know, there's only one ever one camera and there's Chris and he's got this tiny little monitor that he has that puts back. Never two cameras. Rarely unless there's a big set piece, you know. Yeah. Um Um, but he has this tiny little thing again from like the nineties that he watches this shitty little um playback from the thing. But he rarely is watching it'cause he's right beside the camera watching you. Uh um

And he you'll never leave it he'll never leave a scene unless he feels like, you know, you're happy and he's happy. And um it I can't really explain how wonderful it is, how focused is, how fast it is, but yet it never feels fast. Like we shot Oppenheimer in fifty nine days or something like that. Wow. I know. So do you think that that's that speed or that efficiency it just comes as a result of him uh really being precise about knowing what what he wants, what he needs.

He's properly pre prepared and he doesn't hang around longer than uh he's gotten what he wants for that particular shot and off we go. Exactly. I mean he's written the he's written the thing and he knows every single frame. He storyboarded it all in his head. So it's and the thing about Nolan movies is If when there used to be DVDs, there was never any extras'cause he shoots the script.

The script is the script. There's no deleted scenes. There's no extra it's the script. And he finishes every movie like ahead of schedule on the budget. Yeah. Do you did you do you feel uh ha having him yeah, it's pretty remarkable. Uh having him right next to camera And and obviously you guys uh because you've worked so much together there there is a comfort there. Do you Do you get a comfort of having do you feel that comfort of having him right there next to camera, close to you? Yeah.

There's no such thing as video village or like monitors or it's like when I stand next to you, Will. Yeah. You just comfort will should drop the world. But I mean so and and so so then I'm gonna ask you so so you feel that and you must that's

Yeah, it's uh it's evident in in your work that you do with them. So I wonder if when you go and you do work with other directors, Do you ever feel that like sort of sense of not detachment but Sometimes if it is further they are further away or they are at Video Village or you n and you don't have that sort of that

proximity, that relationship that's so close. Do you do you feel the difference sometimes? And I and I don't mean this as a uh to disparage other directors, clearly. Sure. No, I understand. No, I I think it's like what we were discussing earlier. You know you Over time you I think it's our duty to be s really, really flexible, isn't it? Because if you come on one set with us and like this is the only way I will work. Some directors love to rehearse, some directors don't love to rehearse.

Some directors love have everybody look at the monitor and chat and others, you know, don't do that. So you have to kind of bend to ha their approach I find and

Uh, and I love doing that. Like and you know, I don't p particularly love rehearsal on film, but if there's a director that insists on it, I'll go for it, you know, and that'cause yeah, it's their vision and I'm just there to serve the the vision and So I kinda like that at the adventure of it and I'm sure you guys are all the the same, you know, it's a it's like

It's always like a new circus, isn't every time you get a new job, it's like this new circus and what's it gonna involve and what are the what what you know. So I like that. For sure. We'll be right back. And back to the show.

How do you like affecting the um the health of that circus, the harmony of that environment, um uh depending on your level of influence on that set? Like Uh you know, just even the Nolan films, for example, th there are some where you're a part of an ensemble and then like Oppenheimer, you're you're you're the lead and you're you're you're Uh you can you can you can affect the environment. Uh peaky blinders, um, you know, again, sort of the

the the the captain um and also uh in a in a in a producorial position as well. Do you enjoy that sort of leadership position or do you like to disappear and do just be sort of part of the team um and be like a soldier? I think it's it's a bit of both really, isn't it? I've like if if'cause it it's funny you say soldier'cause the whole like

The whole of the film set is based off like the old military kind of setup, isn't it? Like with your you are your director and your first A D and your second A D and your third A D and you know, everyone's got you got number one on the college, number two in the cul you know, it's uh Yeah, yeah. And it has to work like that, and it

You know, if and everything comes from the top, I think, you know, uh the uh the atmosphere and the ambience and the vibe and the energy always is percolates down from the leaders, like the producers and the director and the lead actors down to how everyone so I think It's always nice to I love to have a set where people are having a bit of fun and a bit of crack and Oh boy. Killian Murphy loves crack. We've got our yep. Killian, how do you speak speaking about how the

How do you stay so fit? You're always like you're I I know you're younger than us, but I think it's crack. Is it not? He just told us. Because you have kids too, right? You're constantly working. You're constantly on the go. Uh and but you're in like incredible shape. Will looks pretty good there. That's bronzer. A lot of that's bronzer.

I just sprayed it on the work. Um no, I think I think we all of you guys are very well maintained. I think we it's kind of the part of the job, isn't it? Unfortunately or fortunately. I don't know. Well, I there's the n another part of that that Wikipedia um incredible uh hints I got. There was is it true that you uh To avo to avoid mad cow disease, you went vegetarian. Then you started eating then you started eating meat to bulk up for Peaky Blinders.

And then you stopped eating and you're back to vegetarian for I I d it didn't it didn't give me the reason for the return. But d uh is do they have it right so far? That's more or less accurate. I my I met my wife when I was twenty and she was she's been a vegetarian all life, so I was kind of became a vegetarian then and then I did kind g uh So it was more out of convenience than of any real sort of, you know, um

uh opposition to it. But now I I do do it because I I I I don't really want to eat animals or you know. Um but And if you were to you would make ends meet. Thank you, Will. And that's our episode, everybody. Thank you for joining us with wonderful booking. We have made the two pieces of string connect at the bottom. Um uh no, but you know that whole that whole bulking up thing, uh I know I'm all over the place, but um

I saw this documentary once'cause I I went vegetarian for a year to try to lower my cholesterol, uh, and it only dropped one point after twelve months of eating nothing but really sticks and berries. Yeah. It wasn't that long ago. But yeah, I watched this documentary while I was doing it and and uh and they made a point that you don't need meat to bulk up because they made a point that like gorillas are vegetarians.

Rhinoceros, uh gira like all th these huge animals, all they eat are leaves. And uh Yeah, you're you're absolutely right there. And I should just the update is that I am now Like pe I've always been pescatarian and I don't eat any meat. So that's the Wikipedia update. So the fish. We'll add that in there today. You say you do do the fish. I do do the fish, yes. Right, right, right. And you're entirely right. It's a po it's it's very possible to if you need to do that to do it through

um plant protein of course. I don't know. I was just being an idiot back then. All right, let's uh uh talk to me about Peaky Blinders. Now um Just how long had you been doing how long did you sorry Jay, how long did you do Peaky Blinders before how long you been living in the world of Peaky Blinders? So we did the show on and off for since two two we sh we shot the first season in the end of two thousand and twelve. So on and off. So which I worked out was like a quarter of my uh life.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And how have you I'm sure you have enjoyed because you could have left it earlier, but uh you you have uh undoubtedly enjoyed the progression of Tommy and and and and shaping uh his his growth along with with uh with Steven Knight, yes. Um yes. But I I'm curious to know about you guys as well,'cause people are ask me this stuff and you know that old showbiz adage like, you know, don't quit a hit. Like so when yeah, like Amen. Like if something is working.

And people, you know, a lot of journalists will say, Oh, it must be, you know, hard going back playing the thing. It's amazing writing. Well, if it's incredibly high quality like what you guys have there, um uh and and and the film, my God. took it to even a higher level of production value and and and cinematic uh pleasures. Uh just Unbelievably well directed and shot and scored and performed and lit. I mean Uh what a what a film. Um

But uh yes, amen. Uh if you've got if you've got a gig in this business, um uh Stick with it. These people that like it quit their quit qu quit their series job because they They wanna be open for all the feature opportunities that they feel might be just around the corner. It's like no ding dong.

Yeah. Um you got time for those too. I love that character of yours. The guy who talks like this, who does the thing that this does. Like you know Yeah, exactly. But also I think the thing that you that those people forget is that the the features people are all watching the show. Right. Yeah. Right, right, right. Of course. Right. You know, wouldn't they be great in my film, you know? Yeah, right, right. Killian, do you spend a lot of time in the States or are you happy where you are?

I do come over for work, yeah. Up uh I've never lived lived other than, you know, for jobs. So you love Ireland? Well, I lived in London for a long time for like f we lived here for fourteen years and uh Oh oh you live in London now? I'm sorry. I think No, I'm sorry sorry, I sh uh we're back in Ireland now for about ten years, but we did live in London for fourteen years. And then um before that we're kinda like You know, wherever work would take me, I guess.

Why do you ask Sean? Do you have a B uh B Airbnb? Well no, be nice to have you got a rental that you were just pay off the mortgage just to cover cost, right? And what can you offer'em? Housekeeper come twice a week. Yeah. I just think first and last and uh and then deposit. We're good. Um no, uh because uh no, I don't know. I'm always curious uh because I I love it where you are and I get I get The d the draw to both. I mean, America's obviously incredible and yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, but you're we're kind of like itinerant we just have to follow the work and that's the nature of it. And Yeah, we're in the circus as you say. Yeah, and you kind of Circus my friend one c once called it the the circus of the unemployable. I don't know, it's a very good phrase. It is.

The w the the w the thing I was gonna ask you about about doing multiple seasons, years of the same character, um, is uh, you know, how much have you enjoyed having that character uh gr grow uh with you, because of you, um, uh has has Killian grown? through what you've been experimenting with with Tommy. I mean, I'm sure there's there's there's a yes to all of this. Um uh so I'm not positive what the question is, which is uh a habit of mine. Um I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

Yeah. No, I think it's it's a good question. And and I honestly I don't really have a really good answer though because I I we just finished we'll just finished it and it's just coming out and I think Need a little bit of distance to reflect. I think it's what my my my my initial kind of response to it is that it it was a massive gift. Yeah. To be able to tap that vein of writing and for it to stay that good. And for it to because it was this little show on BBC Two on a Sunday night that

You know, no one had any expectations for it. It had no promotion or or anything like that. And it was genuinely made by fans on the internet telling each other to watch it. And then it just grew grew one of those kind of beautiful A kind of freak.

Uh f that happened sometimes in our business where people just love it and and then the show gets confidence and you know. Yeah, it's because I I mean I I th I I would think it was because it took such a a distinct point of view. There there you weren't

sort of pandering to a a a a huge uh audience, you know, you were sort of like, We're gonna make the show that we really like. We're gonna put the we're gonna shoot it the way we wanna shoot it. We're gonna put this music in there that that we really love and Hopefully enough people like it to just keep us on the air, but we're not looking to be some massive hit. And that type of specificity and commitment r actually yielded uh a a r a real fervent

Fan base, yeah. Well as opposed as opposed to sort of trying to retrofit it, trying to go like uh we want to we want to make a show that hits all this audience and so how can we and that's never that's the recipe for disaster. I wonder Killian, were there moments

uh during various seasons of the show and certainly before the film like were were there moments you're like this is it, this is the last one and then it happened again. Like did you ever have those like where you felt like or was it always open ended, like we're gonna do more?

Well, they wouldn't they were they were never like we ne we only got one series and then we were hoping we would get recommissioned, you know. Um I think we did maybe four and five one after the other. I can't really recall. But um Uh he all like Steve always had it in his head so the f the series begins at the end of World War One and he always had it in his head that it would

end at the b uh the opening or sorry, the beginning of World War Two. And he's achieved that. Yeah. Um so that was such a like no one had like there's lots and lots of um You know, films about the First World War and m many, many, many films about the Second World War, but not so many films or TV shows that deal with Britain between the war. Which is a c so that's where he said it. And in Birmingham, which is like the second city in in the UK and um

And has uh its very own specific and unique history. And so it i i i i i I think because like you say, it didn't have these ambitions to be this huge Uh show. But yeah. It because it was so unique that people came to it. I don't know. I just don't know why. Yeah. Well, if we all knew it made a hit, everything would be a hit. You are you are such a classy fella. I'm sure you'd be very hesitant to take uh any credit. Um, but I would guess that you can take some credit, perhaps.

for for the incredibly beautifully bold uh move of the music the uh the the the the music throughout the show. Is that is that is that something that I mean given your music background, your music your current musical taste, I mean it's just such a It's such an exciting sort of juxtaposition and uh uh you know, that this modern m fucking punk rock throughout something that is set in, you know, World War One. Uh it's yeah. It's just great.

It was a it was a that was a bit of a I I kind of a I guess like a A big swing at the time and uh Otto Bathurst directed the first three series and and he put that Nick Cave tune, that red right hand, right at the beginning of the And it was incredibly anachronistic and it shouldn't have worked, but for some reason it did, and then we were kinda off. And then all these artists through out it like Like PJ Harvey and like uh David Bowie and Radiohead and I everybody started

you know, wanting to have their music on the show and giving us original music and it was ki it's been kinda remarkable. I just an absolute pri privilege. For for a music nerd like me, you know. Yeah. What a treat. Um

All right. Well um I'm I'm assuming you've answered this question a million times, but w we putting Peaky Blinders to bed, I I will ask you, uh w uh are you good I'm sure you're gonna take a big part of him with you. Um, do you do you you're gonna miss him? Are you gonna miss playing that that character? Um it's just been you've just done so much work in that skin. I guess I suppose I I I probably will

Yeah. I don't think about it. What what what do you guys feel about those long running shows and those characters? I'm curious to know. Yeah. Yeah. But do you actually feel I mean, are you extremely unsentimental or do you Have a great affection for them? My my personal either l limits or or or strategy or style or whatever is is to find that character inside of me. You know, it's usually way over on one side or the other of of what my goalposts are, you know, the the limits of who I am.

So I that person's always inside of me, so I'll always carry that character with me a bit. Um, I feel like if I if it's outside my goalpost, then I get into acting. So I gotta find, you know, there there would there would be a um a a version of him inside me somewhere. Um What about you two fellas? Yeah, I I I'm proud and excited that the fans love the character I played for so many years. Mm-hmm. Uh but for me personally I'm yeah, like Jace just said, ready to Move on. Turn after that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, neither am I. Yeah. You just you're happy to say kind of goodbye, nice knowing you next. Yeah. I think so, yeah. I'm very proud of it. And like you say, like really proud that it had such an impact and that the people invested so much. But Yeah, yeah. That that's an odd muscle that we all um unfortunately have to have to have to strengthen is saying goodbye to these families that that we're constantly creating on set. Uh that's the strange thing.

Yeah, yeah. Uh you know, when you when you run into someone I was just thinking about you run into people that you that you worked with on something really intensely and you see them like at a restaurant or yeah out on the street or at something else, you know, and it's

It's n I I don't even just mean actors like anybody who's part of the filmmaking process or the production designer or whomever and you see them you're like and and you go, What the hell are you doing? Hey and you've got this you've got this like really intense part of your life where you have this real connect where you're both doing this creative endeavor.

Hey. But you've always got that. You know what I mean? And your family has no idea who these people are. And you've spent more time with them in the last few years than you have your actual family. And they've never met them. And they bring you such joy in that moment when you see them. Yeah, yeah. Yes. And then it's instant. There's no like getting to know you again. It's just you're straight back into it because you've been through The trenches, yeah.

Straight. Um, well, uh we are two minutes over. Um yeah, parting shot, Shawnee. No, I was just gonna say now when I run into you, Killian, we worked on this together. We did. So we have this moment over and this experience together. So when we run into each other, Peaky Blinders the Immortal Man. Uh in uh Select Theaters uh it already March sixth, uh it was, and uh and and on Netflix March twentieth.

Uh it I highly recommend this thing. Um and you can't fold laundry watching it either. Put the laundry down, tuck in and enjoy every frame of this thing. Uh Incredible work done by uh in front of and behind the cameras. Just it's a stunning film. Really. Oh let's start people. Get yourself a podcast, invite us on. They're handed out. We haven't had a gossip. Well you can gossip after I leave

Yeah. Such a pleasure to meet you. I'm been a big fan for a long time. Such a big fan. Yeah, same. Such a big fan. Likewise, guys. You're the man, Killian. Lovely to lovely to chat to you all and we'll do it again. Enjoy your evening. Get your slippers on. Thanks. All right. See you guys. Yeah, it's nearly bedtime now. All right. Bye buddy. Nice. Bye bye. Bye. Well, there he is. And you know, you know the most remarkable thing about his talent, that accent completely fake. He is

Actually from yeah, yeah, yeah. No kidding. Yeah, Canton, Ohio. Why would I but why would it Canton, Ohio. Yeah, his dad actually was one of the people that helped help build the NFL Hall of Fame. Yeah, he's amazing. No, this is a character he hasn't dropped uh for years.

Incredible. I mean that's deep. That is deep. Deep, deep. So wow. That's a good thing. What a fella. Um, you know what? He's so good. Christopher Nolan and him, like you kind of think of those two together. And I was trying to think of like who else is there? There's a lot of There's a lot of them like um Tim Burton and Johnny Depp. Yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio and and um and Martin Scorsese now. Sure.

Um Vini Ricks Corsese. Yeah, and Tom Hanks and Spielberg did a bunch, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. He's one of them. Uh here comes a joke, right? Uh let's see. Uh Sean. It was. He was being sincere while he searches for a buy. Where do you go? Is there a buy website? Um, there's a I do have a bunch of uh of buy things, but Oh boy, Will, you're showing a lot of restraint, not doing any of the by jokes at all. Shoot. Oh

That's a good Sean. Oh Sean, did you ki Sean, did you key in on one? Did you key on one? I did. This just came to me. Um I hope you know, I hope I hope um the movie I can't wait to see the movie of our guest today. That's great. What's it called? It's called Peaky Bine. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett B. Michael Grant Terry and Rob Armjar. Smart, less.