Hey guys, you know what I do? I do do the environmentally correct thing. I smash it. I cap it. I put it in the blue bin. I smash it, I cap it, I put it in the blue bit of it. I smash it, I cap it. In the bluebin. Look at your little look Jay, look at the little flare you got going you lit that thing. That's uh that's what we get for doing this at four.
No, it's nice though. It's giving it a nice kind of vibe. Like you gotta kick all right. It's real it's real bounce. Yeah, it's just nice. It's giving a real kind of It's a little bit too much, maybe. How do you feel about the afternoon record? I'm not a fan. Yeah. I'm I'm d I'm done with the day a couple of hours ago. Yeah.
That's uh what, seven six five four three two. We got you for the whole day, right? I'm just gonna quote you. For sure. I will admit. I'll I'll get there. I'll get I'll get it up. I'll get it up. Um now but Shawnee, you're even worse off. You're in New York. So you're this is this is You're well past dinner time. It's seven there. I know it's seven o'clock. I have just been going. Yeah. No, I I ate when I came home. Did you rehearse today? I did for five hours. Boy. How'd it go?
It's hu it's tough. You know when you have to concentrate so Hard and so specific for so long. Yeah. I don't know. Like on It's a different kind of tired. It is. It's brain tired. Yeah, you can't take a moment off, right? Because listener, he's talking about uh he's doing a one man show. Oh gosh, here we go. What's the what's the show called, Chunny? It's called the Unknown, but we we we we we don't we don't have to. Okay. It's called the Unknown. We don't know. How is it going to be?
It's unknown. It's kinda right there. It's right before you know. What's the uh Shawnee, what's the name of the theater too, so we can just get it. It's called it's called the uh Studio Sea View and it opens January thirty first for two. Receive you January thirty first. Gang, get down there. Yeah, I you know the whole like um
Previews and opening. We talked about that before. It's like if you're selling tickets and people are coming, why do we do the previews and open just it's opens January thirty first. That's what I say. Yeah. Like you know. It's c officially open, but it's like well then don't sell tick tickets but we are and so rehearsal. Call it rehearsal and don't have aud like Yeah, we're rehearsing for two weeks before we
You know It's like you get a couple of weeks of mulligans. Like don't you dare write a review about this. That's right. And then but but Jason, that's when the that's when the uh critics come are doing previews. Doing previews. Yeah. So it's like what I don't understand. It's all back. So they get the reviews out on opening that. Well the while we're working through our shit, that's when they review the show. Like I don't know it doesn't make any sense.
Why don't you charge half price for previews? Um, I'll mention that to the painters. Sean, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Do you have the balls to change the system? Theater system. Charging half price for previews. Three three full acts. And let's do four months of previews in one week. Oh my god, that'd be hilarious. Now, Sean, you're uh you're you're you're finding uh your brain's working okay as far as remembering all these lines.
Well, you know, that's the scariest part. Um, I have found that I've I've been told in this rehearsal process that uh some people have Ear what is it called? Yeah, ear wigs or ear wigs or whatever. And then uh Oh yeah, we had a we did uh we had a d record the other day and somebody said that uh he now I wonder i he I couldn't understand was he
Was he implying that the earwig is is reading him his lines all the time or just when he goes up, someone will whizz? He said for backup, but I do I know somebody who did an entire run on Broadway with uh with earwick. There's a few people, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so so I also um let's talk about it. So what are you gonna do? What's what's gonna be your safety net? I'm just gonna wing it. Like I don't know. No you're not. I'm not gonna be able to do it.
He's been working on it for months, eight hours literally eight hours a day. Yeah, for like three hours. Nonstop. He is so diligent about that. You know Shawnee, he's di if he's diligent if nothing else. No, you are. Now this is the part that I don't get though, Shawnee, because you're so you're so beautifully relaxed about
You are your days, your weeks, your years, your months. You're you know, you don't you don't you're you're fine you're fine relaxing and you do think I'm a basket case? Of course you're gonna be able to do it. You tend to say no to a lot of things. Okay, even more than me. Yet you say yes.
uh not only a one man show, but another play on the back end of the last thing and you said you would never do another one. Yeah, do you remember when he was in London? Remember when he was in London and he was like, I'm not doing this again. What am I doing? I remember talking to you, like, Yeah, why am I doing this? I'm so tired.
I'm not gonna do this. We were on the phone. You were in like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit if you if you read the script you'd be like, Well, you're an idiot if you don't do this because there's never been anything like it. I mean it's the most incredible thing I've ever read. I mean it's incredible. Oh, all right. All right. Well good.
He's inspired. He's inspired. I like the challenge. But you know, then then then it's nice that you're still inspired. Yeah, a little bit. So uh but I ch I talk about change of the system. It's um on stage is the only like theater's the only place you don't have a stand in. So T V and film
Actors have stand-ins while they light the scenes so they can go rehearse and whatever. But theater, I was like, why don't you have a stand-in during tech week? Why don't I have to stand there for 14 hours while you light the show? I'm tired. Anyway, moving on. Uh You don't like hitting your marks and setting the lights and all that stuff. But maybe that process will help cement it.
That's that's what it's there for, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys, my guest today is one of those people who was just a kind of born cool, right? Like came out of the womb in dark sunglasses. She was performing at illegal warehouse parties as a teenager and her parents came with her, not dropped her off, but like went inside.
She's British. Her stage name came from an old online scream name. It basically meant kiss me. She has synesthesia, so music is in colors in her head. I want to talk to her about that.
And she's been behind some of the biggest pop hits of the last decade, but in the summer of twenty twenty four, she had a moment so big it jumped out of music and into the American presidential election. She's wildly talented, beautiful, unapologetically herself, but most people know her as one word. Brat, it's the amazing. Charlie X Hello? Ah Hello. Look at her go. Hello. Where are you?
I'm good, thank you. How are you? Good. Are you in a kitchen somewhere? Uh yeah it s sort of sounds like it, doesn't it? No, I'm in this uh I don't know what this is. It's a room It's a medical place. Behind me. Basically, that's all that's going on. Are are there cadavers in there? Listener, there's a there's a metal wall behind her. Yeah. Shiny metal. Yeah. How are I'm so thanks for being here. This is so cool.
Thank you for having me. Where are you? Were you just filming something or something? Yes, I'm sorry. I I was late. Uh but yeah. Are you in London? I'm no, I'm in LA. I'm in LA right now. Okay. Are you liking are you liking what you're filming? Uh well yeah, I mean it's just pr I'm doing promo for a movie, so I'm kinda it this is my first time doing promo for a film. Is this the mockumentary or is this the other? Awesome. Tell us about it. What's it called? Yeah.
It's called the Moment and it's basically a it's kind of a revisionist history of twenty twenty four. Um as and by and A twenty four is producer producing. Yeah, A twenty four are producing it. And it's basically um A uh yeah, it's like a satirical um mockumentary about um my first arena tour. Right. Um and yeah, it's like a a music industry satire very much in the realm of This is spinal tap and
um kind of opening night. Right. It's it looks hilarious. So you're sort of playing like a version of yourself? Yes, correct, correct. A version of myself. How are you how are you liking that? Is it'cause that that that necessitates uh sort of doing some Like are you Do you have to make yourself look foolish? Do you have to make yourself look different than what you what you truly are at times? Like how does all that work? Well, I mean
My character is a real bitch and everybody already thinks that I am one, so that's totally fine. Uh Who said that? Google it. It's out there, babes. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. But but um no, it's it's um It's yeah, it was it was like a really it was kind of an amazing process and we were really lucky to work with some like an fucking an awesome cast like
just absolutely incredible in the film and Was it was any of it scripted or is it really all improved? No, it was it was scripted but we really did go off on a lot of improv. I mean we had some really incredible comedians in the film as well, like Kate Ballan and Jamie Demetriu, who are just th I mean it's like their bread and butter, they're so in it's so effortless for them. And your idea or how whose idea was it?
Um, the idea it was based on an idea by th by me. Yeah. I I guess I'd been approached to do a um I like a more traditional tour film um where you know we were gonna like film one of my shows. Right. Um and I was kind of more interested in like sub subverting the form and like taking that kind of traditional medium Um and then like flipping it into something that felt m just a bit more subversive and kind of more a in a li aligned with the work that I
generally That's super smart. It's like you're not taking it too seriously and it's kinda like spinal tap you were saying, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm definitely not the hero of the story, which is very accurate to sort of my time in the music industry, I think. You guys you guys have to watch the trailer. Who directed it? Um Aidan Zamiri directed the film. It's his um debut feature. Yeah. That's cool. He he's he's really incredible and
Has done a lot of music videos in the past. How did you like the whole filming process? I mean, is that'cause it's it can be long days, right? Yeah. This film was really on kind of like an extraited timeline. I mean, we r wrote the first draft in a week and then after that we and that was we had it in the first draft sort of
New Year's Eve and then we were shooting by March. So it was very like fast, very, very fast, as was the shoot itself, you know. Um sort of like five weeks and kind of like really like hardcore. Hitting it. Yeah. And did you already have w was it was it done during one of your tours or did you have to like get a whole stage together and do all that stuff too? Yeah, yeah. We we we m we made a whole stage and the stage is very kind of like
not what I would actually do on tour. So it's not real footage from the from your tour? No, there's no tour there's no tour footage in it at all. So what about the crowds? You got just big crowds. We we filmed we film well I don't You know, movie magic, guys. That would be a bummer to have to do all that stuff in front of all those people and like narrating and
Yeah. Throwing stuff at you. Yeah, for God's sake, take a sip of your tea. Take a sip of your tea. It's really hot actually, is what's going on. I'm just kind of blowing on it. You got time. So are you. So right, so look it. Um you picked your name when you were really young. I know you probably I've never heard this answer.
But please, like for me and our listener, tell me like how did you come up with the name? Oh and for me too. I I'm I'm an old man. Um help me. Well, yeah, it was my MSN screen name. Um and That's really good. Yeah. I just kinda went with that. I stuck with that and um And it's just a kiss thing like a kiss Charlie kiss. Yeah. I think a while like when I was a lot younger I was
sort of really kind of like insecure about it being too boring, so I sort of tried to like make it stand for much more like X rated version of that. But it didn't stick because it wasn't the truth. So yeah. And w and and do does anybody call you Charlotte anymore? No, no one does actually. Not even family. No, everyone calls me Charlie. Yeah. How about Chuck? Ever Chuck? I uh you know I actually a lot of my American friends
do say chuck. I would. I love anybody I know that's Charles or Charlie, I always go to Chuck. I don't know. I get Chuck and I get Chuckles. Yeah. Chuck quite a lot. Yeah. Very good. Do you remember of course you do. I I let this is what I this is my uh Chris Farley version. Do you remember that day you tweeted Kamala as brat and then I mean Jay, do you remember that? I just
Yeah, and then Kamala's whole like campaign became the color of your album. That started with you, Charlie? Yeah. Come on. So you didn't start. Oh okay. See I'm very old. My daughter's not a big thing. Don't worry, Jason. It's fine. It was only a cultural phenomenon, but By the way, I'm a big fan and I This old timer doesn't get past uh you know I'm st uh I'm still I still need to I still need to watch uh Sopranos.
Um so wait, d you did not come up with the term brat. I'm assuming brat was a was a was a term, was a phrase that was kinned. What did you start the did you start? Yeah. But you st you got it into the main like in the So my my my album was an album where the cover is green. Right. Lime green. With the word brat on it. And that was something that was sort of like adopted
by a lot of people on the internet, eventually by Kamala after I did that tweet. Right, right. Um and then it became sort of part Of like the conversation to be brat or not to be brat. No, that part that part I definitely I I I I woke up for, for sure. I mean who knows? It found me in my hole. But but um no wait, there's a better way to say that. Um but but when you put the title of it originally on your on your album
Was it already a phrase that was kind of in the lexicon? Or or did you bring it up? Yeah, you created a I mean the word brat existed, but it wasn't a it was a classical sense, yes. Yes, but it but no it w it wasn't I I uh don't think at least that it was in the lexicon in that in the way that it became in the way that it became associated with people just kinda owning it. I mean, that's so cool. Right? Which is kind of what it kinda became, yeah. Okay.
Yeah. And then all the hits, man, off that album. I mean, so many f and hits. It's crazy. Thanks. That's crazy. You know, the three sixty Apple, what are they? Von uh Von Dutch. Hello Goodbye was on the on the on the um extent like the uh deluxe. Yeah, wow, justice for uh very little known track Hello Goodbye. I like Hello Goodbye. I like it a lot. Um Wait, do they still call those things B sides?
It's it's not technically a B side, but it was it's like a deluxe version. Gotcha. J again, just like you. Deluxe. Um so you grew up in Essex, right? I can't picture you as a kid. Yeah. What were you la what were you like at school? Growing up with this talent that you had at such a young age. You know, I just find'cause your dad's Scottish and your mom's Indian, did one culture uh
D did one like feel more present than the other? Like you know what I mean? And did si did you was it different at school for you? Um, I mean they they were both sort of present, um, culturally and also not. You know, I think I kind of lived this life where like I would go and see my mum's side of the family at the weekends and when I was sort of around them I would always kind of feel I suppose more white because I guess I didn't entirely perhaps connect with
Certain parts of the culture that I wasn't always present for, you know? And then I think in school I would often feel more brown, you know, and more Indian just because um I think a lot of my school friends, their only kind of reference point for an Indian person was a poo from The Simpsons, you know? So I would feel very kind of like You know, and and that would be like a joke for them. So I would be a bit like I couldn't really connect there and I couldn't really connect.
Right. So it it was, you know, but um It was it was sort of like that kind of a like slight displacement type thing, you know. And what was like the w was it was the toughest age for you the same as as it is for m uh m certainly for me, for most people like like seventh grade, eighth grade, like thirteen, fourteen, like that's when
I have found kids are the meanest and like my feelings got hurt the most and I was and I was scarred the most and I still hold on. My point is I hold on to certain things that really Scarred me back then, but actually gave me a bit of a thicker skin to be able to hand like I didn't have the sort of clarity back then, but in retrospect. There is sort of I guess a benefit to going through some of the tough
sledding that happens at that age. And certainly like if you have an older sibling when they kind of like tease you and stuff. In retrospect now, being the old timer that I am, I I do look back and having kids of my own now. I do sort of see the the stuff they go through as like
It it helped me a little bit. I didn't see it at the time. Do you do do you do you do you find that it it helped shape you and and and and the kind of music you make now or Yeah. I mean I I don't have any siblings, so I didn't I I found I actually think Um not having siblings actually means that you miss out on a lot of conflict. And I mean that in like actually a bad way. Like I think My friends who have siblings are so much better at um conflict as in they don't Kind of.
amplifier up into this huge dramatic thing. It's just they they're they're able to move through it a lot more quickly than I am. Because it's they can't they know how to diffuse it, you know? Yeah, and as an only child you're sort of protected and you're coddled and you're you're you're it's all about you. Yeah, and then also it's like the only people you really have to
really like fight with is is your parents who are this, you know, figure of authority in a way. So the the kind of the clash feels like far more drastic and there isn't like a sibling to kind of um, you know, just diffuse it a bit and make it feel less of a big deal. So it feels really gigantic.
Yeah. Does that mean that you would love to have um uh uh more that more than one kid, or do you or would you like to have a kid that has the same sort of experience as you where it's the only child and then you get to just kind of Nurture and protect and Um, I actually don't really want to have kids. No, no. You don't? Wait, why?
Um, you know, who know that that could change. But Shawnee, you you've never really had any interest in you've said it a million times that that I want to want to have kids, but and and my husband Scotty grew up an only child and you can use this phrase. He always says I was spoiled but not rotten.
Right. So he right. So he he was always he has to learn how he had to learn everything that you're saying, like how to how to uh diffuse conflict and all that stuff. But yeah, I was, you know, uh uh you know, what's I've said it a million times on this show. that um I'd rather regret not having kids than have them and regret it later. Right, right, right. Because you never know what you're gonna get, like the roll of the dice. You ever see the show Intervention?
It's like I if I had a kid, that's where they would end up, like dragging me through the street like fucking drug addict. Like they would be great. I mean I I know what you mean. It's like I love like the fantasy of having a a child, like like Naming it. Sounds so fun. But I'm like that is
That feels like the coolest part about it. Right. I'm like, maybe I'm not ready. You know what I mean? But you know, all that could change if you you might, my, my, my I mean, I'm I'm sort of, I guess I'm backing into giving myself a half-assed compliment here, but my wife did not want to have kids. So the story goes. So she tells you adopted yours. And and she said once once once we started
Going out and she met she was like, Okay, I think I can have a kid with this guy. So you might find somebody. Well, I'm married. Yeah. I gotta read a newspaper one of these days. I knew immediately like where you were gonna go, I knew the response, I was gonna be looking forward to it. So then you're the next husband you're gonna want kids. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Finish Charlie. Yeah. We'll be right back. And now back to the show.
But wait, though this is really cool. This is so wild. I did not know this that So when you start for starting out all the illegal warehouses, this is what I read, all the illegal warehouses that you would go to, you would go to Raves and you would what perform there and your parents would not just drop you up, they would go inside with you.
Yeah, yeah. I mean th I was so lucky, they were very supportive. At the time I was like, This is so lame, like they're cramping my style. But you know, they were obviously just very very supportive, I feel very lucky. And so you would play shows at these rapes, right? Mm-hmm. Are they still involved with your career? There's there's a l there's a lot of musicians that still have parents that are involved with their career. Very successful.
Mine aren't, but they're they're still you know, they're very they're very proud and they're very supportive, but they're not involved in in my career, no. Do they ever give you notes on your music? Do they like your music? They used my my dad used to love um throwing out some suggestions. Yes. Very ever anything useful.
Anything useful ever? You know, I think it's like w I I f I feel bad for him because I think it's one of those things where even if it was the most amazing idea ever, I think purely Because and this is he used to do this when I was a lot younger, like pu purely because he was my dad, th he was always gonna get the no, you know what I mean? Right, right. But I'm I'm sure, you know, he's a smart guy. I'm sure he probably does have
Good song ideas up there. Can you tell Jason about the uh the story about um your dad somebody tried to sell drugs to your dad at one of the raves? Right. This was actually my m my mum. Someone tried to sell some drugs to my mom at a rave. What figure me? Hey Will, I gotta say, so so listener, we've gone uh seventeen minutes without Will Arnett and it's really been great. Kinda been breezy. It's like this is a very useful experiment. Willie, if you ever have an illness or something like that.
Just we got you. Yeah, we're not. Actually, if you're actually cooking. Great. I can't believe this is like my worst nightmare. Oh please don't we're we're here for you. Are you okay? No, I'm having a stressful day, Charlie. Do I call you Charlie? Yeah, we've covered it. Yeah, we covered it. I've I've I've had I've had Charlie, can I just say
I've had a really I share with the boys, I won't get into it, but I've had a really stressful day on a personal level. It's been a very yeah. We're yeah, we're gonna get into it after the insert joke here. No. Well there was an insert joke, yeah. That was part of the problem.
Charlie, I'm sorry to have missed it. I this is not this is unlike me. I'm usually pretty good about this kind of stuff. But anyway, don't you worry. It's looking everybody's got like, you know, this is one of the best episodes because Charlie was a little
Late. You were a little late. I'm always a little late. I avoided a little teasing that Will undoubtedly would have given me for really having my head up my ass about Charlie and like all grandad here needed a little update. He didn't know she was the she born the term brat. You know, with Kamala Harris and all that. Like she was the I don't think I knew that either. I know who you are.
I'm very aware of your music and who you are. It should be noted. Don't you worry. I'm still listening to Steely Dan, Charlie. Yeah. And that's cool. That's that's cool. Wait, I j I just thought it was funny. Charlie's parents used to go with her to the raves that she performed at, like all these parties. That's fun. And that is and her mom her mom was offered a baggie of Of well, of MDMA, but she thought that they said MDF as in the wood.
that you can buy to like panel a wall. And my dad was like, we could use some of that, but I don't know how we're gonna fit it in the car. And the the guy was kind of like Like how much do you want to buy? You know, and I just I thought it was a very like sweet story. He's got a lot of tolerance.
Yeah, that would be really useful for us actually if I think about it at the house, what we could use. By the way, I this might be inappropriate, but I am hearing a lot about MDMA. Uh again, getting back to being an old timer here. I'm hearing it's it's quite the thing. And it's uh it's got a lot of uh is that the horse tranquilizer thing? No. I think it's kinda like ecstasy. Right. Yeah. I'm I I I had a little of that back way back in the day. And I'm hearing this on DMA is uh
is a is a good time. I'm not advocating trying it or doing it, kids. But um I hear it's a new it's a new thing. Um well they do MDMA therapy now, I think. Which is not something that I've tried, but I've never tried it. Have you I believe it in th therapy, like a Friday night therapy. You know what I mean? Just one night. With like a little side tar of uh of Tito's. Whatever it is that you like. Whatever makes it go down a little better, you know? Gotcha. Oh my god. Um okay, so wait.
So I wanna know okay, so I'm gonna talk about like getting the music stuff. So do you remember the first time because I find your story so fascinating that you were so young and you started you discovered you had this talent at such a young age. And you were kinda like a superstar and you flew under the radar and the radar and then, you know, I knew you'd probably like the world knew you with the I love it, I don't care.
Uh like that sounds like and no, I only did I don't care, I love it. Um and um but you weren't really Like featured in the video, which I thought was weird. And like, so what was that like knowing you wrote this song and this was your song, but was having the success without your face on it kind of so to speak. Yeah, no. It was funny. I had a really sort of like strange career in that like I um I was kinda like doing a lot of stuff and had some really, really big hits, but I was
often either the writer of the song or the feature of the song. And so like nobody really knew who I was. So I I did exactly as you just said, like completely flying under the radar. Like I was I was like going to cool shit, like working with incredible people, travelling the world, but was also kind of completely anonymous. Right. So it was very it was like interesting and very actually useful I think for me, especially
with my previous record, Brat, which really did kind of like open me up to a much wider audience. I think had I not had that experience back in like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen of these like honestly like big chart topping songs. I probably would be like totally like off my head right now because I wouldn't really be prepared. Do you know what I mean? Right, right. Um
So and I would be like a complete nightmare, which maybe I still am, I don't know. But you know what I mean? You're not so um so yeah, it's it was interesting and it's uh kind of like over those years from then to now have sort of like built my like audience like sort of in a very kind of slow, like organic way. Right. Right. Right. So yeah, it's been a kind of interesting path. And tell me, tell these guys just go ahead, you have free reign to brag, all the artists you've written songs for.
Not all, but like the So you'll write you'll write songs for other artists that you don't necessarily want to perform yourself. Yes. Big hit songs. Yeah. Um like okay, Selena Gomez, uh Iggy Azalea, um Camilla Cabello. Camilla Cabello, yeah. Wow. Sean Mendez. James Blunt randomly. Do you rate them? You write them for them, or you write them thinking that you might do it, or they just become a later, you're like, hey, I've got a song that I've written, or somebody comes to you and says,
Charlie, have you got an idea? Do this for me. Or can you just write me a song? Yeah. How does that work? It goes it goes every way. All of those ways are options. Sometimes it's kinda like a We need songs for XYZ artist and this is what they wanna this is what they wanna say. And then sometimes it's like I'll write a song and I'll be like, oh. I thought this was for me but actually like I don't think I should sing like a sort of
flamenco sounding like pop song because that doesn't make sense to me as an artist. And what you're writing is the m is the music or or the lyrics or both in those in these cases? I write like the the the lyrics and the top line, which is sort of the melody that the singer sings. Right. It's incredible. Wow. And cause because I I was I was surprised a few years ago I learned that, you know, that it's n it's not that uncommon for some of the biggest stars in the world.
To not write anything ever. It's all incoming. They're just they're just the sing I don't mean to belittle it, but they they only do the singing and everything else is kind of taken care of. Yeah. Yeah, but you know what? It's like it's funny, I think there's a real there's a real stigma against that, you know, like that that sort of in some ways like make
those people like less of an artist. But I I don't really agree with that. I think there's like different types of artistry, like there's someone who's there's like a great performer versus a great writer versus a great entertainer versus a really like unbelievable vocalist. I think there's a lot of things.
who writes and directs and produces as well as act. It's like it's it's really cool that you can do all of those things. Um Yeah. I mean I en yeah I enjoy it. I mean a wait'til this movie comes out. I mean like how did that how did that were one of your parents Uh musically inclined? That did they kind of put the bug in you? Um, no, not really. Um I think it was it was I just I played piano. Yeah. Growing up. I was sort of studying classical piano. Um and I
When I was younger I had no interest in classical music at all. Um I didn't think it was cool. I didn't get it. And now I feel like completely different. I I love classical music. But um at the time I I really didn't I didn't relate to it. Um and I thought it was kind of embarrassing that I was doing it. So instead I really was trying to like write pop songs and chords and kind of
But that background in that in it must have helped you sort of songwriting wise. Yeah, Elton John talks about that, how he that informed a lot of his writing. You know what, it's it's interesting because I I so when I was st studying classical music, I was really basically just doing it to pass the grades, like the classical grades. Um and each grade you would have to learn three pieces of music and then you would do an exam where you would play the pieces of music.
And you would also do like sight reading and another test. I can't remember what it was. But I actually couldn't read music. I always really had like trouble um reading the music and playing what was there. So I would spend an entire year like learning and practicing these pieces by ear instead of like actually just being able to pick up any piece of music and read it. Yeah, it's called like the Suzuki method, yeah. Sure, I think so, yeah. And so so so like I um so I like couldn't really
like read any other music. So I actually have a really like low level knowledge of classical music. So when Elton John's like, Oh yeah, for me it really helped, that's probably'cause he's Obviously fucking Elton John and can probably b play, you know, any single thing ever. But I could only really hear things by
Yeah. Right. And and also like it to the extent you feel comfortable y talking about synesthesia, because I think it's fascinating. Do you guys know what that is? No. It's where is it where you see music? Is that Oh. So can you describe that and how you first found out you had that and how it you use it today? Yeah, I mean it's it's funny. It's like I th I I think it's it's not just about music. It can be, I don't know, some people might be like
see the days of the week in colours or d it's it's a a kind of colour association to a thing and different people have different stuff. I have that. You have that? Yeah, for certain things I have colo I th uh but I've never thought about it. But but yeah. Really? Wow. For days of the week you said days of the week. Days of the week have colors for me. Wow. You've just been diagnosed by Charlie and you
I don't know, yeah. And so do you put do you put what colors Wednesday? Uh uh pink. What? You just made that up. No. Thursdays green. Fridays Friday's orange, Saturday's blue, Sunday's yellow, uh Mondays.
Uh blue. Are Fridays You're in love? Tuesdays red. Fridays you're in love. I don't care what my biggest cost us too. But anyway, sorry, but it's not as it's not as evolved as yours. Mine No, I mean it's so it's basically just for me it's like I I I I was when I first started realizing that I guess I had it and I didn't really know what it was when I was sort of figuring it out, was when I was working with producers and I would sort of say like Mm can you make this sound more blue or
Purple and I wouldn't quite be able to articulate specifically like the the sound design that I needed, but I just knew that it needed to sound purple. And then when the producer would help generate that sound, I would say, like that that's it, that's that's purple or whatever.
And so now do you have to work with that producer all the time? Well yeah. I mean I do work with the same people quite a lot. I mean they know, they definitely know like what I mean when I say certain things. Have you ever have you ever tried like um I how did this uh I don't know how to explain this? Have you ever like listened to mu or listened to one of your own songs and tried to paint it as you listened to it. I haven't actually but I think I do sort of like see
it kind of and I s when I s listen to other music I kinda like s I see it in a way. I'm like, oh this song evokes this color immediately. And do you ever reverse engineer that and for inspiration when you write a song, like, you know, we always ask a lot of musicians what comes first, the lyrics or the music. Do you ever see a color first and then music comes from that?
More recently, no, it's really generated specifically by when I hear sound, then I start thinking about colour. Um but on this last record, to be honest, a lot of
the songs were generated from like lyrical based ideas. Like I was really leading with with lyrics. Is that new? Is that like a departure from Yeah, yeah.'Cause I used to kind of write phonetically where I would sort of go into the booth And just kind of record like a kind of um like a ad lib track where I would be like, oh blah blah blah. Ba ba ba.
And then I would fit like m lyrics to the vowel sounds that I was creating. Oh, that would be interesting. Um But now, yeah, more recently I've I'm becoming much more lyric led because I think I on the last record I had some like really specific stories that I wanted to tell and I didn't feel
I don't know, I just I just felt like I I really wanted to kind of throw out any like tropes that I had previously used in the past. Like I particularly wasn't interested in in rhyme with this record. I just wanted to like say the direct dialogue. from my brain in the way that I would text a friend. Like I think that became like kind of the tone of the record. Yeah. So are uh are you ever doing it on piano based on your sort of your history with piano? Do you ever do that?
To be honest, no, my music is very um electronic um and kind of Especially on the last record, like very like club based dance music. So I wasn't really going to the piano too much. But given what you were saying about how the you're much more lyric driven right now, there's certain things that you really like talking about and saying, um and communicating.
How important is it to you that people hear every word in the lyrics? Cause like I I'll I'll try to follow lyrics and you know, some folks they they don't they don't really, you know, they They don't they won't screw up the song to enunciate.
You know. Sometimes it sounds better just kinda just kinda mumble it out. And I get that. Um but you're like, motherfucker, I want to hear what you're saying. Yeah. Then you look on Apple Music for the lyrics, right? Right. Yeah. Right. I love I do that too. I d yeah, I don't really care about enunciation to be honest. I think it's
If you overrated. Yeah, it's overrated and also I'd love to hear, you know, your interpretation of what I'm saying rather than what I'm actually saying because you know no one fact checks anyway anymore, so it's sort of fun to just play into it. Yeah, yeah.
No, I just gonna say how do you know when a song I no I don't think we've ever asked this of any musician on the show. How do you know when a song is done? Because it's like in in film editing, you could just you could just do it forever. Like you could just And tweak and tweak. So for you, when you write these all these massive hit songs, this long list of all these huge songs, that how do you know when you're done?
I mean, I think it's different for everyone, but for me uh I I mean People can go for ages on a song as well, um, and really like chip back into it over and over again in the way that you would with an edit. I for me, that's my nightmare. Like, I think there's a real charm in spontaneity. Um, and that's like a big part of my process. as an artist, as a writer, it's really that like instinctual kind of first reaction to something that there there is something almost like
charming and naive to it sometimes. Like you know when you're a kid and you're you're coming up with ideas, like if you're if a kid writes a song, sometimes they could like say something so profound and like actually really surreal and abstract that as an adult you it might take you a while to kind of think of or something and then it might even feel too forced. I feel like that's for me it's like the same when I'm writing. I'm like the first idea is often just way more um, I don't know, like
uh unique than when I've sat down and really thought about it for a while. Yeah, yeah. So I really try and just like capture the moment in that kind of a way. Do you do you know do you know when you've when you when you have finished the song, do you ever get that sense where you go, This is a hit song? I uh I can feel it and For real. I mean you must have this. I I I do, but it's like Sucking. You know what I mean? It's like I mean it's like I'm sure I don't know if you guys have this.
when you're writing or when you're performing, if ever you think you kill it, you probably didn't. You know what I mean? It's like one of those moments. Yeah. And also if it's immediately if if it's immediately catchy you can get sick of it really quick and those are the ones that that are probably too simplistic or the a public might get tired of too fast and it doesn't possibly. I also think it's funny, I think we're in this like kind of new era of
writing songs. I don't know how you guys feel about this, but like I think we live in such a reference heavy world now that I think things can kind of become catchy or earworms or something that you want to revisit for other reasons outside of maybe they're like, really like dynamically written or like the melody is technically good. It could actually just be you're referencing something that's so within the zeitgeist that that itself is like the hook of it.
And I think that's a really interesting way of writing. Like it's more like topical. Well I think that that probably happens a lot. Think about all the, you know, the songs that we love sort of for nostalgic reasons, right? That that other people might be like, Yeah, that song doesn't really mean much to me. You're like, Really? Does doesn't it remind you of that summer when we were seventeen? They're like, No, not really. Sorry. Right. Yeah. Right. And we will be right back.
And now back to the show. What's the turnaround time for for for a song? Because like if you were trying to follow trend with film, i it'd be a fool's errand'cause it takes about a year to turn a movie around from when you start it to cut it to release it. I mean, at a at a at a minimum. Um how long does it take to turn a song around? Uh like a a d a day? I mean I mean not e I mean sometimes you write I wrote I Love It in thirty minutes, which is the one that you were singing amazingly.
But it's not that's not me being like, aren't I amazing? I mean the lyrics are like on repeat. It's not, you know what I mean? It's like, but it's just I think it's just like I we have this saying, like me and a couple of my collaborators, where it's like, You have to dare to suffer. Right. And like sometimes in like daring to suck, actually the most fucking like universal genius idea comes out. Yeah.
I've been daring to suck my whole life. If I was sitting in a studio and I was writing, I mean I could 360 Apple, whatever. But but since you said it, I love it, I don't care. And I would be like, guys, what about this? I love it.
Uh don't k I wouldn't have the confidence to be like, yeah, I think that's gonna work. You know what I mean? But that's it, right? It's like c it's like commitment to the bit, you know. It's like it's like c it's that's that's all it is. It's like if I like came to you guys with my tail between my legs and like Fucking whatever. But if I like tell you no, this is like fucking the shit and it's it's so good. And like It's even if you think it's dumb, it's like that
I'm so inspired by you right now. It is. I mean I am too. But where did you get that from, Charlie? Yeah. And that's a great environment to provide for the people around you. Like that you you must you must enjoy that leadership position of of creating harmony. And your works so it feels safe and there's no bad ideas, we can be foolish. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I think, yeah, it's it's fun. I think. There's this idea that I sometimes disagree with that like
um making good art has to be hard. And like sometimes I really disagree with that, but sometimes I'm like, no, I'm in pain and I'm a real artist, you know, and I like to kind of like pendulum swing between both of those things. But um I don't know. I think Yeah, it's it's it's funny. I'm I'm always very I have always been very interested in like
the connectivity between high and low, that's always just been like something that's been really inspiring to me. And I think that whole like daring to suck mentality, it's very sort of like I don't know, like factory war hole in a way. It's like
Paint the soup. Just fucking paint it. Yeah, well what I I think that it it's it's also about the idea of like I remember having this teacher what's years ago telling me like art is absence of ego. Like if you can get to the place Where you're not judging it in real time, where you can let go, and you guys know what it means too when you're doing what we do or whatever, where you can get to that place. where you're not judging it and you're just in the for lack of a better word, flow
And you're just in that thing. Yeah. That that's that pocket when you get into those too. The people you're around. Yes and it Yeah, yes. And you can kinda and they like you don't worry about it. So you're not worried about the result of it. You're not thinking about how it's coming across.
Yeah, you get out of the results and just it then then those moments are magic. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And I and what I also think and I'd m I'm not sure if you guys feel this way, but I think the second I try and write for someone else. Or to appeal to lots of people. Yes. It's like everything f kind of falls apart. And actually it's like that more like potent vision where maybe you're even just like selfishly writing for yourself.
Really like directly about your experience or your experience with one friend or like whatever it is, like the more kind of like potent and distilled it is, it weirdly actually then becomes something that more people can relate to because it's So Because you believe it and you're doing it for you. And what's funny is we live in this world e increasingly because of whatever, social media, et cetera, where we do it is all about this sort of there is so much feedback constantly on what we do.
harder and and harder to get away from that. And what what's funny is just hearing you say it, is that w we need to kind of reject that in order to make something really pure in that w way, we h we need to reject the idea of what other people will like, even though The final product of what we do is for public consumption.
contradictory to to the exercise in a way and yet that's the thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It it yeah, it's it is a um a a conflict for sure. Um with all the all the um Uh success you've had, uh Charlie, like it three Grammys. When uh and and one Grammy show?
In one each year at the same show. That's crazy. Yeah. Three Grammys. What and you s and like I keep saying over and over, I'm just like so impressed by your talent at such a young age that you somebody, your parents, you, whoever uh encourage you to keep going with that. And then w now that you are older and knock on wood hopefully wiser, what's the part of the music industry that shocked you the most? Well you know, once you were actually inside of it. Um just how
no one really knows what they're doing. Right. Yeah. Isn't that the truth? That is the truth. And you thought the di you thought different Yeah, I was like, Oh, this must be run by like a really like tight ship of people who like know what's up and Nor is it I think ever the case in any sort of like creative field. It's like the artists know what they're doing and then hopefully you have
people with brains to facilitate you and then not too annoying, really. It's like kind of the vibe, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's funny, do you feel like they're like kind of also you you create the stuff and then The business sort of reacts to it. They're much more reactionary rather, right? So and then they're always trying to recreate.
with other people, like that whole idea. Yeah. And and you know what? Like I think when I was younger that used to really bother me. But I I I think now you know it does. And I think that's just the obviously that's just the way it is. It's like I couldn't be a record label exact, like I couldn't work like at a distribution company. Like I you know, it's like
I that's not the brain that I have. I have a different kind of brain where I'm like, why don't we fly planes through the sky that say Brat Summer or whatever? You know, it's like and then they figure out how to do it. Like, I don't know, it's like I uh but I did used to be sort of frustrated by
Why can't you all be on my page with my ideas? But actually that would be a nightmare because then it would be less about me, which would be an awful lot. Right, right, right. All right. Do you remember the first time you walked on stage and felt like um the wall of sound coming at you and like uh wow, like just that feeling of
D like was it were you scared? You're like, Oh shit, I didn't think it was gonna be like this or that's too many people. Yeah, exactly. You know, no, I think because my career was such a slow burn, like when I started when I was I was playing to like rooms of the five years. three people and that was like my two parents and the promoter. Do you know what I mean? Like I was like welcoming more people in a way. And over the past um sort of
ten, fifteen years. Like it's really grown like gradually and gradually and gradually from like one hundred cap rooms to a thousand rooms to five thousand cap rooms to now finally being in arenas and The first time when I did step out into playing an arena, I just remember being like, Well there's gonna be no one there. Like and it's all the tickets have been bought by bot.
Like that is what I convinced myself in my mind. I was like, No, it's gonna be so embarrassing, all the tickets are gone, but they're all bots. Like I've just you know and so it I it was it was like a really
Pleasant surprise. On this film, was it was it was it just purely for uh um like uh uh a a a musical film to sort of augment the the the the the musical venture and all that stuff or or was there a bit of an acting sort of curiosity there too and if so do you see that being a part of of your world going forward? Yeah, I I've I've been acting a little bit um now and producing um You're liking it? I honestly I love it. I mean I I feel like I it it was funny, it's like once
my album Brat did well. There was obviously this opportunity for me to just make another album exactly like that and like kind of gain like capitalise on it. Sure. And For me, I've always had this sort of motto of like, what would Chloe Savigny do? And I feel like what she would have done would just be like, Like no. It's a great title to your new album. Yeah. Well it's like she's the coolest. And it's like I think she would just
probably be like, No, I quit music, you know? So I was kinda like, okay, I think I would like to sort of do some kind of a drastic pivot where I yeah, I I kind of explore acting. I mean, I'm watching films like all the time, like more than I've ever listened to. I ba I basically never listen to music apart from like
Lou Reed and like the Velvet Underground and like John Cale's solo stuff. That's like kinda it. Yeah. Right. Um but I'm like watching a lot of films all the time. Do you have a favorite this year?
Favorite film this year. Yeah, yeah. That I've seen. I just watched Surratt the other night and I Oh yeah. Oh, is that good? I want to see that too. It was really, really, really, really amazing. Really amazing. I also love this film Atropia, which is This film by Hayley Gates who is um And Callum Turner is in it and um it's like a like a really it's like very, very like funny like satire on um that sort of like
fake military zone that they have. That sounds great. It's great. It's really great. Um but um yeah so I'm I'm kinda like really enjoying watching so I I kind of sort of started asking like a few of my friends who are either like directors or writers, like do you think I could kind of do this and they were like yeah but like don't be embarrassing about it like you don't want to be like the girl who's like I'm an actress
just now. So I was like, yeah, no. No, no, I bet I bet you'd be great. You have a great presence. I agree because I think your approach artistically or the way that you look at stuff, I think is really appropriate for I think well thanks. Yeah. I mean I I was interested in just doing like small things.
Yeah. So I was really lucky to kinda I did like this Greg Iraqi movie that I'm like super excited about. I'm really excited to work with Takashi Mike this year on this film that I'm gonna produce, which is like crazy to me to like go to Japan and shoot with like a horror autur. I'm like that's cool. This is insane. So yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying it. Total like crazy segue to nothing.
But I I w just wanted to mention this. I thought it was so wild that you had an angel phone. Is that true where fans could call a number and you would actually answer and pick up at any time of the day? No way. Mm-hmm. Is that true? Yeah, it you know, it didn't last long'cause it was a nightmare. But I'm sure. Like five minutes. Yeah, yeah. No, it was it was good for like a good solid, you know, like Five hours, but it was sta
Slam, slam, slam. But you guys should do one of them, you know, one day for an hour. Yeah, it'd be fine. We we'd be sitting we'd be sitting by the phone. It would not ring. It would be so embarrassing. And then it would be one call with a bunch of notes. Yeah. It would be much more. That's what you need to fix. And the last thing I I read that's really interesting, that's a little like me, but
You have fourteen alarm times saved on your phone, but none of them are on. I've got that. Yeah. I'm I'm never really Putting them on. Yeah. So is is it like what do you mean? What do you you don't believe in alarms? What's what's the deal? I'm I generally like I w do kinda wake up roughly at the same time unless I've been partying and then I might put an alarm on, you know? Right, right, right. What's the time? What's the time you generally wake up?
Um, it really depends if I've been travelling or not. I'm a bit jet lagged at the moment, so I'm waking up at seven, which is very early for me. Yeah. That's early. Like normally I'm like a Nine thirty kind of go. So you're going to bed, you're going to bed at at two or three in the morning? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I remember those. Yeah, you should. Yeah, me too. Hey, um what what about travel? How do you how do you like that part of the business? Because it is a necessary component to to to music, right? Because Yeah, you must be on the road all the time. Um, yeah. I Like you have to tour, right? You can't just sell albums. I hate touring. Yeah. I I hate touring and I really do it in quite a specific way where I I think compared to a lot of my peers, I I'm not really
doing that much touring. Like my my husband's in a band and they tour So much, like all the time. I think their last album they toured for like two years or something like that, which is like just not. an option for me. But you'll go with them. Yeah, for a bit. Sometimes. It'll kinda pop in every once in a while. But I'm uh yeah, I'm not like I'm not like on the bus, which is like no way. And what about him? Well we'll hit George. Uh the uh the nineteen seventy five, that's the band.
Oh, Roger Roger. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. And then what he will he will reciprocate and he'll come see you every once in a while when you're doing some touring? Yes, exactly. Um but he it's kind of I think a bit harder for him because he's sort of like a six foot For Bald Man, and my fans are all a lot shorter than that. And so it's very like easy for him to be like.
spotted where he's sort of hopping around. So um yeah, but it's sweet. We do yeah, we we swap, we go back and forth and Who who who are the musicians that you listened to when you were growing up that you were like what was the pop m by pop music, w pop music or any kind of mu who were the who were the bands that inspired you? Um, I was pretty like diverse. I mean I think when I was a lot younger
I was very into like Britney and the Spice Girls. That was definitely my bread and butter. Yeah. And then as I got a bit older, I was really into the cure to Kate Bush. Suissou and the Banshees, like that kind of a world. And then I got very into like French electro kind of stuff like Daft Punk and Justice and like that kind of world.
So sort of all over the shop really. That's uh and I have a question about touring uh because these people I like French music too. Same. You do? What do you think? I listened to like La Femme. I like I love that band La Femme. I think that they're really cool. Charlie, what's the big Okay Are we done with that? Thank you, Charlie. Sorry. Yeah. No, just keep going. Sorry man, I didn't know I was boring you.
She didn't want to hear about Lafarm anymore. I was re I was ready to go there actually, but no, we'll Another time. They have a great song called Tatiana. It's an amazing song by La Femme. It's just an absolute banger idea. Oh yeah? No, but tell us more about that.
Um Charlie, before you go, I wanna know the biggest uh when you were touring the biggest onstage flub or concert blooper or whatever that you just will never forget, like something that just went totally wrong. He loves the stage stories. I love my stage stories. Oh my gosh. Um like a fan that did something or a song that you screwed up or something. I've not sure I've had any really like disastrous like on stage moments where I've I've really like
fall I mean I've definitely fallen but not in a way that I've found embarrassing or anything like that. But I I do I I used to get a lot of strange um gifts from fans um and I think those will always stick with me. My my two favourites were I got a uh a a douche, which I was asked to sign. You're welcome. Um and then I also received a jar of somebody's mother's ashes as a necklace.
Oh. Wow. So yeah. And I did exactly that well. I went, oh and didn't really I wanted to bu be grateful but and not offensive but also was terrified. So it was, you know So those memories will always sweep. What about dancing and singing at the same time? I always marvel at how you guys don't run out of breath'cause you have to have a lot of breath to sing well, yet you've got to keep moving. Not even just not even just dancing, just just moving around. Yeah. I mean
Okay, so Jason, like one thing about me is I don't really like dance. Um you'll go away and do a deep dive and then I'm gonna call you back and say, God damn it, can we do this over? But see this is what's so great about these things. You know, we get to we get to we get to become smarter. We're smart less people. Exactly, exactly, exactly. No, my dancing is very it's sort of like a lot of like
flailing and it's very kind of it's not very coordinated. It's a little work of uh Yeah, I mean not far off. It's very kind of like like that it's a love possession vibe. I don't want to be a little bit more than that. So I I get the benefit of being able to sort of just Yeah. hit marks and do choreo. I'm more just sort of Flailing around. So it's a little easier for me. Well, listen, Charlie X I now that I know where the name comes from, it makes you me love you more.
Uh well I've I'll I'll clue you in later. Yeah clue me. No and I wanna say I'm so I'm so Yeah. You're so cool. Oh, thanks. I l I listen to your music when I go on walks all the time. I'm gonna listen to it even more now with just like more depth to just knowing a l a little bit more about you. I just think that you're awesome. Yeah. You were awesome. Thank you so much.
And and just for am I getting this right, the moment is it's out now by the time this episode comes out. It's out now. I don't know. Maybe. I'm sure. Well it was released January thirtieth. Yeah, this is a mockumentary. Okay. Yeah. Um Absolutely adore you. I think you're the coolest chick ever. I I wanna be you for Halloween. Oh Guys, thank you for doing that. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. Have a great night. You too, Charlie. Bye, bye, bye. Bye. Bye.
What a nice person. Well, she is something else. Yeah. You missed a real good first half. I know. I'm so I gotta you gotta listen to this episode, Willie. I can't wait. No. You're in it's gonna be the episode. I've had one of those episode where they go where they go. You know what? It's better without'em. Yeah, no, I told you. Talk about it what talk about an impressive
artist and person and just right. Life. And just like yeah, she's one of those like what is that? How do you describe that? She's indifferent to that sound. Mm-hmm. No, but uh you know, you have if you if you believe in that sort of old soul thing, you know, like some people have been around a few times. Yes, and exactly. And you know and it's not just she's not polished. She's so real and authentic in two things. Yeah, it's amazing.
No filter. Lover. I know. Um when we were talking before Willie about songs that I love off of her albums, uh especially off of Bratt. Here we go. She listened to all the hits. sure let's not just want you to go down the left did anything pop out to you yeah Well, Von Dutch Talk Talk, you know, Apple was huge. Like all those songs. But your favorite would be And Brad, of course, but my favorite was on the deluxe version that I was showing Jason about. It's called Hello. Goodbye.
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