You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
The Weapon Classes. I wanted to let that roll for a little bit, but I guess we'd better get on and do our job. Welcome, Welcome back to the Weekend Collective on tim beverage and by the way, a fascinating chat in the previous hour for the Health hab with Dr Mark Williams Neuroscience about just the effect of devices on our on our health and actually the scariest thing was basically the fact that we're just becoming dumber because
the devices and IQ rates of declining. So if you wanted a reason to get off your phone, there's a good one. Anyway, if you want to check out anto the previous hours and me to chat with Peter Dunn about the Luxeen and Winston having a crack at luxon for talking to world leaders and getting ahead of it.
Should have talked to Winston first. And then we had a chat with David Carter, former Speaker of the House and Minister of Local Government about just celebrities and voting for them just because we recognize the name for our mayors. You can go and check out our podcast look for the Weekend Collective on the News talks he Be website. We'll go to iHeartRadio. But right now it's time for another hour, which'll be can checking out in the podcast
if you're not listening to it live. It is smart money. My guest is he's an employment relation expert. He doesn't really need much of an introduction to this audience. I think if you've been listening to The Weekend Collective for a while, you'll be familiar with the tone, the dulcet tones of Max Whitehead go a Max, how you going?
Hey, you've had an exciting build up to the show, because really, some really good stuff's been happening. By the sound, I wish I was there. I mean, because that your last segment that adolescens. I just watched that segment of Man it touched me.
It really is that that. That's a Netflix thing.
I've got children. You should see it.
Yeah, they're going to.
Put it into schools.
It's going to be Yeah, apparently it's quite heavy going too, I think, isn't it? But yeah, I'll have to check it out. I'm busy watching something light and fluffy mine. You're also I'm enjoying the f one at the moment you're following the F one and all the fortunes of Liam Lawson and all that.
Oh well, I just followed him, of course. And then then I think the TA B said that they put him something special on for him and if you bet for him, and then I realized that the odds can't be good for him. No, I didn't expect him to win. But you know, a bit sad he got pushed aside, but that's life.
Yeah. Well, now we want your calls on eight hundred eighty ten eight. And look, if there's any issue that you're concerned about with your either as an employer or as an employee, give us a call. And I'm sure maxud I love to give you the benefit of his wisdom and experience on eight hundred eighty text nine two ninety two. But we always like to kick things off with a couple of angles of conversation for you to digest and participate on. And the first one is is
there a stigma around age getting old? And should we be valuing age a little more than sort of looking at people and thinking, oh, they're getting towards sixty five and start to write people off and case and point, and the reason for this discussion is Winston Peters. Much as you know, we might have heard some criticisms of them before by Peter Dunn about his motives for having
a crack at Luxon and all that. And look, Winston Winston, the wily old politician, the co Martyr of New Zealand Parliament. He's he's been doing it for a long time. He's eighty years old now. And yet who would question whether Winston is not up to the job, Because clearly Winston is up to the job. He's received huge plaudits for
the job that he does as Foreign Affairs Minister. I would say that the average punter who follows politics with more than a passing interest would look at Winston and think, you know what, regardless of my opinion of him or whether I vote for him as a foreign minister, at the age of eighty, the guy is he's rocking and rolling. So is that an example of why we should not write off older people and that age is just a number.
Well, you got to think about it. It's a great discussion because we got Winston, who is wiley. I think he really is. But by goodness, I've been around a long time, so I remember the days when he skinned his knees and he was an embarrassment and I remember the time when he got throwing out of the National Party for that particular reason. And he's made some silly statements in the early days. But now he can read politics better than anybody and he's proven that again and again.
There's also a lesson there and just persistence, isn't it, you know, I mean he's plead Knox member. He got I mean he got ended up out of parliament after you know, when people decided that I had enough in New Zealand first and he was out and then he's back.
Jim Boljas kicked him out and he's held a grudge against the National Party for years, but he's back with him now. But you know, the other thing is the President of the United States is about the same age, yes.
He is, well, actually in the former president of the United States is around the same age as well.
Yeah yeah, and look at the performance difference. It's completely you know, the previous president really struggled and his age really showed him that last year. So he's witty, he's smart, he's electric, but he's thinking he can actually beat the hecklers. He really does performing well and his brain is super sharp trumpy. Well, I don't know what goes on in his brain. I don't think anyone else does. But what we got is somebody courageous. But there's that reckless because
he's getting old as well. But he's really really doing some changes to the world.
Well, let's get onto the Can you you can't discriminate against people based on their gender? Generally, I don't think you can, And generally I wouldn't think you can discriminate against them on age. But can you discriminate against people on age?
Well, the Human Rights ex specifies it. No, you cannot. So if employers have problems of this, So a person's becoming elderly, they're becoming slower, they be a bit more less, can't respond quick quick enough and even physically.
That's a performance issue, isn't it.
Yes, And that's how they've got to treat it. But not with age.
Whereas if you turn up for a job and you happen to be, you know, in your seventies or something, and you demonstrate you can do the job, age shouldn't be a barrier to you.
No, it should not, And but yet it is. I can say to you now because I'm getting into that older age group and never I just adjust my nappy. But just but what I was just about to say is, you know, it definitely is a barrier out there. It's subconscient, but right through New Zealand. You actually look at in your world. You know, radio stars and things in Australia they're much older. TV celebrities are the really good ones are much older. There's not many older ones here compared
to what's happening in Australia. They're in New Zealand. We do judge people on age, and we shouldn't we should I mean, I.
Guess there are certain industries where age is not such a barrier that you know, the older yet you deem to have a bit more life experience and dealing with things. Probably actually this this gig can talk back. If you're you know, if you're around fifty, you're a youngster.
Yeah, well yes, well possibly, but I mean you've got to have some intelligence for your sort of work as well, and you've got to be quick witted, and you've got to be able to handle, you know, situations that can be a bit risky and do it lightning fast. What if I mean what are diplomacy.
What can are there ways that older people who still want to continue working, Because the other reason we're talking about this, they are an increasingly large number of people who working beyond the age of sixty five. And I think I saw some frightening status to what younger people thought how long they were going to work for and
there was quite a large number. I need to find that stat actually about how many people thought they would be stopping at sixty five, and it was a minority, I think, wasn't it.
Yeah, it was. And of course nowadays people are wanting to come back. If anything, the older people are the pension doesn't quite give you that luxurious, nice living standard as you had before. Now there's a couple of things that older people should do if they want to get back in the workforce, and that is one. There's a perception out there that you're going to want more money.
I actually talked to an HR person today just because I knew this was coming up, and she said that we actually have a feeling that people are going to of the older generation will be expecting high money. That's one that surprises me.
I would have thought, because.
You've been around a long time, and you do have the experience. You've been in the industry for years and years and years, and you've had increments every year to take you up. And of course you will be expensive. So older people, you've got to say that I'm at reasonable cost. My expectations aren't beyond what's reasonable. The other thing is technology, because that's a barrier old The people that are making decisions expect you because you're older, you're
not savvy with tech. You need to get up there. You need to keep right up to what's going on, and particularly with AI right now, because that's going to change the world. Now. If you're right up to date and even ahead of some of the younger people, you're going to be a head for that job. Interview as well, I would say, because the employer will be looking at it. So the way to actually sell it, if I was you would say, hey, I'm very much aware of it.
I may be using AI myself, however I do it cautiously because I don't know where it's going to go.
Actually, are people allowed to know how old you are for a job. No, unless it's something where there's a prescribed by law thing like I don't think there's an age, which you can be a commercial pilot or something.
Well, what we advise, we've have for years and years and years of employers, and I work for the EMA Employees Association, do not ever ask their age because then you're up for an allegation of discrimination.
So you actually cannot even ask someone. Look, you don't have to tell me. Can you say, Look, you don't have to tell me, but how old are you?
No?
Can you say what years were you?
It's not advisable.
Can you ask them what year did you go to that school?
You could ask them that, but I mean again, they could use that and say he knew that I was touching on fifty nine and mine's going to get a pension next year or whatever, and then discriminated against me. I mean, you just don't want to get into legal action against you because you're going to turn that that person down. They will then claim what was the reason, Oh, it's because of my age. I'll sue the buggers.
God, we'd love your calls on this. Eight hundred and eighty ten. Aady, are you someone who's older who's looking at keeping working or getting a job, and how do you handle the question of age or do you believe that we are, that we stigmatize and look at older people in a negative way, when in fact they might have a lot to offer. Case in point, as I say,
just because he's out his eightieth birthday, Winston Peters. To be honest, if you didn't have a Minister of Foreign Affairs and you could just hire anyone and Winston was available, he'd be like, let's have a chat with Whney, wouldn't you You'd hire them, good high Whinny, wouldn't you.
Well, yeah, I'd go to him for advice. Hey, what's going to happen in the future. He seems to better predict it rather well because he's how often is here the balance of power? The whole population don't get this privilege. He's at it so many times. He's actually told us who we're going to have in parliament, told us what anyway? Enough of Winston.
Hey, let's take some calls. Where are we up to?
Let's go to Tom, Hey, Tom Max waited here, it's.
Tom here. I've got a performance issue, which you just mentioned before at my work. I just want to ask your opinion about my situation, if that's okay.
Yeah, sure. Have you been accused of poor performance.
Yes, and so I don't want to need to be careful about not reguining my who I work for. But so I work for a large government department, and have.
They given you a performance improvement plan?
They're about two yes?
Right?
So well, firstly, so the work I do is office based, and we receive applications from members of the public which we need to process and we need to evaluate the applicants, how the applicants meets various government policies and determine various risk factors. Can get very complicated, and so I've been told that I'm about ten or twenty below the weekly output.
So Tom, the big key here for you is that you are entitled to a lot of information which I guarantee you haven't had. You might surprise me government departments of HR departments that can spend all day preparing this stuff. But anyway, what you can what you should be asking for is what exactly have I done that I've let you down that you think I'm not performing?
Right?
I want you to name the dates, the time, the people involved, the conversations that actually give you that right that evidence. Can you give me five examples please, and then specify you want facts, not just you want you want facts, not just opinions.
So sorry, what are the rest of the what's the rest of the story. What's where you're at with at the moment?
Okay, So I I've had a few meets my manager, and I mean so our workers can be get quite assessed as well, and so my my quity is very good to excellent for last few months. There's no problem my quarity. And I sit to my manager just last week, I said, are there any other issues with my employment? Which is an issue? There's no, not at all. Just your output is below our expectations. So my question is there's that enough for them to put me on a performance plan? And so they he's first giving me six
weeks ago on what he calls informal performance plan. But boy, is like five pages of documents which I need to sign, and there's expectations per week for every six weeks. And if I don't meet the expectations and that six weeks, then I go on a formal performance plan. And I was told that if I don't meet expectations after three months on the formal performance plan, then I could be down the road. I'll be down the road.
Tom can I just ask you before we get into this further, do you know how were you set in terms of your output with other other people?
And asked that?
So where I worked, there is I mean, I mean nationwide, there are thousands of employees, and where I work, there's probably I'm not sure exactly about probably four hundred plus employees where I work. I mean, we all do different types of work, that's all kind of similar. And I'm absolutely certain I'm not the only person who's not meeting their target requirements. And I have asked that of them and they say, no, we can't talk to other people wause it's private information.
Oh Okay, there's a lot to dig into here, isn't there? Max you get into it.
Okay, well I go back back by the time I go right back to where I started. What I advise you to do is ask some questions, get some facts. You have been accused of something, you should ask them and put this in writing for me or for anybody might want to represent you that you've asked them to provide the facts to support their allegation of poor performance. And look, you've just made a very good point there. You know, where do you stand compared to your peers.
I mean that's a question you can ask, is anyone else performing at this level? I mean those sort of questions you've got to write to put forward. Sorry, Tom, you spoke, Yeah.
So who's the reply to that? Was that more than half of two teams who do the same work as I do, more than half of the staff who do the same week as I are meeting expectations. So I don't know what that means. More than half is that there's tety percent who aren't.
So in writing put it in right? So I asked the boss, can you please give me some responses in writing? Because I'm getting advice on this and my advisor needs to see what you've got to help how you respond to these questions? Ah?
Right?
So what I do is very much computer based, so they've got time and you know, all these apicases we get, it's all done in the computer, so that he has got statistics to show that on a week, on a monthly, weekly, a monthly basis, my output is so much and so much and I'm not meeting the expectations of Has he given this to you?
Tom?
Can? I can? I ask Tom?
He is?
He not exactly? But he has got the end he would give it to me. I know that you do.
You get a sense. I've just a couple of questions, a bit of guess where here. But firstly I've got a text asking have is this a new manager.
Last six months? But I think I think he might be getting directions from higher up. I've been I've been at this organization for like just over twenty years now and two years from the retirement or two years from sixty five, and I've got a good history and good record with them. My output very goes up and down, but I've got a very good attendance. I turned to work every day I've had them.
I'm just interrupted you because you know we should move on. But I was just going to say to you that really we've got. What you've got to do is we're so careful, so careful that you don't sign off any of those new rules he's putting in front of you. He'll be even giving you some KPIs key performance issues, standards to indicators that you're going to have to get to and you might use the words back, are you
setting me up to fail? And because that's possibly what he's trying to do, and say I'm reluctant to sign this off until I'm satisfied that it's fear and reasonable person.
My main question is, if I don't meet the I don't meet the expectations after the formal performance plan and review after several months, is that enough to dismiss someone?
Yes, it is if you fail again right through. But they if you challenge them, if you came to someone like me and we challenge them, They've got to show there was enough justification for them to dismiss you. And that's what I'm asking you to do now, is to ask them for that information now, to justify what their actions are and why they're coming at you, because I can sense it from you, Tom, You've bewildered at the moment.
Can I also ask Tom, do you have a sense that they are doing in these performance reviews as a way of reducing numbers within your workplace, and so they've simply changed the goalposts so they can find a bunch of people who don't quite meet what their targets are.
I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. I mean, it's a speak of one as a big organization. So we haven't had any you know, in the last year with government cutbacks. We haven't had significant cutbacks.
I really don't know, so I'll help you there. Because normally it's easier to make somebody redundant than it is to actually get them for flight issues. So it's quicker. It's a quicker way of doing it.
Cheaper to get them for performance issue though, isn't it possibly?
Yeah? Because I mean twenty years of service where Tom is, he's going to be a costly person to get out the door.
So first long told any redundancy or know that?
Yeah, okay, hey, looks stay on the line. We'll move on Tom. But stay listening because I just want to ask Max, So what a Tom's just remind us. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will have these issues. If you suspect you're being managed out of your job. What are his first actions?
Now?
First thing he should do is go back and ask for facts and ask for it in writing because he needs to get advice, and before he signs off, and then when he's asked again sign the document, he should since say I don't like I don't I don't feel comfortable signing this because you're setting me up to fail. If he's got a good reason and six months in the job, he's.
Been twenty years there. See. That seems to me that if someone can be successful and be in a position for twenty years to suddenly be managed out of a job. Because the thing that raises alarm for me is are they shifting the goalposts from the gig that you've been doing consistently and acceptably for twenty years? So how could it have changed? He would, he'd be there must be a way of raising that. It's like, hang on a minute, twenty years. I've been doing fine. This has never been
raised with him before. I haven't changed my output. It's as it has been for the last twenty years. You're shifting the goal pace to.
Get rim what's happened? And he's already told us so. A couple of levels up, there's been a new manager coming. The new manager and that's what already A Texas is mentioned to you. The new managers come in. I'm going to make a name for myself here. I'll get rid of the dead wood.
Tom's they But if you've been successful in a job for twenty years, they can't suddenly go Oh, by the way we've set these are your targets. Now, if you don't meet them, we're going to performance manage you out. That doesn't feel like that's.
Now they want time to sign it. You've got my boat, You've got my advice on both days. First, get the facts and the second mine is do not sign it until you're comfortable that you can achieve those things.
Yep.
Okay, So hopefully that's good advice for your tom and you know, otherwise, get some advice. I'm sure people want to get it.
And Tim, I'm going to tell you that there's going to be callers now, because this happens every day in my world. I'll get callers from everybody and the new managers come in and he wants to show the boss how wonderful he is cleaning out the dude would and get the performance back up.
Gosh, that sounds like a challenging scenario, doesn't it. Right, Hey, look, we'll be back in just a moment. It's twenty eight and a half past five.
Sitting.
Living's welcome back to the week and collective. This is smart money. My guess is Max Whitehead, as we all know, an employment relations expert talking well, we've been talking about age as well, but the last conversation has thrown up the question around how do you how can you avoid being performanced managed out of a job. But any questions you've got around your employment relationship, whether it be as a boss or an employee, you give us a call, Helen Hello.
Oh hello, Kevin Max. Now this thing about our discrimination on age Tony Sorry. Peter Bouchi is the chief on vidsman. He has been forced out of his job. His frames is as good as it ever was, simply because he turned twenty egoes, he's turned seventy two. And when they did that revise the legislation to bring that in, they didn't change that, so that the Ombuton's office, you know, he had to go by because he was seventy two and no other reason.
Yeah, well that's a separate that's a separate act of parliament. I guess that's the way it is.
Tim was just telling me that during the break, because I mean, there is a human rights tech which affects all of us ordinary people, but that person is deemed to be somebody pretty special, and that's so they passed an act of parliament. He was he's gone, isn't he?
I think? So he's yeah, sharp as attack. You know, I doesn't want to go and doing a great job.
We get judges like that and they get right up there in terms of age, but you know that they can't stay too long either because of the he gets up to that.
I actually think there is another reason for that as well, though, Helen, is that the Ombudsman is someone who reviews actions of the government and the public service. So he has actually a very powerful role. And so if he was if he was getting older and hanging on to the job even though maybe he wasn't as good as it, it's very difficult for the government to say it's time for you to go when because it looks it could look bad that they're doing it because they don't like the
decisions he's arriving at. So the Act the Act probably is necessary from the point of view of like it just removes that uncomfortable issue of having to say to the ombudsmen, will you're done, sunshine?
I can see that, I could see that, but.
Just you know, a lot of those senior roles have fixed term just specifically for that, but they don't mention age quite often, but this one they do.
Yeah, So actually it's a strange one because you think they can amount that just by simply saying you've got a five year term and maybe have something in there that if somehow we've got questions around your cognitive ability, you have to do a pass an assessment. Oh it all gets complicated, doesn't max.
Well, it does. There's so much it does. And we see these legislations that are conflicting with each other, and the judge, particularly in the High Court and some of those other ones have to make a decision which which legislation will take prison in here, and they do it quite frequently.
Here's one I've gotten. I've been in a telco forty nine years, very experienced up to date forced us into owner operator. They've just offered me a contract. W's reduced my ind come by forty percent from a year ago. I barely survive now, so I'll be below minimum wage. No wonder they have problems in the North Island to the with internet outages.
Bloody hell is this chorus? I think now? It doesn't say they went and gave them made them contractors, And my goodness, that's that's really s And I would say that if your skills, surely you can get another job somewhere else. Why put up with a minimum wage or less than even.
Well's I guess as he said, because if you're.
A contract well that's lawful. By the way, if you're a contractor, you can be paid less than a minimum wage.
That does seem pretty rapid, doesn't it. I don't know beyond that. Well, if he could, if you've been an employee, how do they force you to become a contractor once you've been an employee.
It's why you can be very cautious when you actually do that. Flick over and agree with the boss, but you can still challenge it and say, well, in reality, I'm an employee. Because all these there's a heap of tests. It's complicated, but it can get there.
Another one says. A text says experience and capability to do jobs should be respecting the work, et cetera. For the older age group, older people have come through the invention and development over our time and employment. I find young people now want others to do to work for them, and I think technology and sorry and think technology will do and everything doesn't work out that way. Get the job, do the work, don't leave the computer us.
Well, one of the reasons we're well and very low productivity in New Zealand is the fact that we let our technology is not up there because ninety seven percent of all businesses in New Zealand, not all the enterprises are less than twenty people in there, so we're small businesses and we haven't got that AI will the robotics particularly,
and these young people expect robotics to do everything. Unfortunately a lot of businesses just can't afford that, and that's why we're lagging behind the competitors around the globe.
Another text here from Patricia high Tim and Max. Great call from Tom. My opinion is new manager being backed by senior management. Therefore new manager has the confidence to deal with Tom full stop. Stand your ground, Tom, listen to Max. So much for the no surprises at performance review time. This carry on is rife and government departments cheers Patricia.
Oh go Patricia. I liked her her texts and she's dead right. We're banks to all that. Yeah, I think you need to challenge it, Tom and ask for more facts.
Kearencies. What's the difference between them asking your age and asking what's wrong with you? If you have a day off sick? Both a private.
You can answer this, you did before. Actually, well, they're two different things. Yeah, I mean your age and your ability to perform or having even sick. If you're not reliably attending work, that's another matter. But you don't.
I think she's saying, are they allowed to ask you what's wrong with you if you have day off sick? Actually I don't think you have to tell them what's wrong with you. You just have to say I'm unwell. And if you want, I'm not going to tell you what it is, I'll give you a medical stuff exactly. But you should have a trusting relationship where you go on.
You know, yeah, and you did right and do have a trusting relationship. But employers have only thing they are entitled to know is will you be reliably able to tend work from hereafter? And what was the reason you're off? And if your doctor's given you a certificate, the employe's got no he has to accept it or she has to accept what is.
The pragmatic way of getting a certificate from a doctor, Because you know, going to the doctor these days, that's not cheap.
They've got a pad right beside him because they write so many It's just what was wrong. Three weeks ago, I had an illness. The boss wants me to have a certificate for that. Okay, right, what day was that?
So you just give him a call. You shouldn't have to necessary avenue.
But they have to go. And the doctor makes a bit of money out of that. But then he writes this to certificate and rips it off the pad and gives it to the person. That's forty bucks or sixty bucks or whatever it is for a doctor's appointment. Now, yeah, no, that's been going on for a long time, and there's a lot of people, like employers associations are very unhappy with the recklessness that the medical certificates are released by retrospectively. That didn't make any sense.
Yeah, we want your cause as well. Any questions you've got for Max Max White, he is an employment relations expert. If you want to get in touch with them, he's got one of those fun numbers. It's quite easy to remember. But for the time being, I cannot think what it is is If people want to get in touch with the Max.
Two one twenty four to seven, ninety three ninety three, what did.
You go for?
The ninety three ninety three is of course, it's like inflation. On our ninety two.
When I got to the number, I didn't even I thought one shit number because there was no two numbers in there that were the same. So I thought, ah, this is rubbish. And the girl that was working for me, she said, have another look at it. It was twenty four to seven ninety three ninety three. Well, and there was a pizza around at the time with ninety three ninety three at the end of it.
Do you ever get called for no pizza? You know, hold them, hold the hold the mushrooms. Anyway, Hey, look, we'd love your cause on eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Any questions you've got for Max. We've got a few things we can dig into here between the two of us, but if you'd like to jump the queue and get them with your question, then give us a call. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty. It's twenty six news Talk, said,
b Yes, welcome back, this is smart money. My guess is Max Whitehead is an employment relations expert and the numbers is eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Taking your cause. We started talking about whether you know age is a big deal these days, but we're also as the conversation. Evolve's been talking about being performance managed out of a job, or any of questions you might have around your employment situation, boss or otherwise.
It's interesting subjects tonight. I'm really touching some buttons of me and you and I have been having a conversations during the breaks. You know, it's been amazing.
Tom, your your turn? Sorry not Tom, Colin? What am I saying? Colin? Colin?
Colin?
Hello? Colin? Max here?
Hello? Max? How are you very good? I have a question. If you've got twenty sick days, right, and was the school holidays coming up? Can you use three of those sick days to have off as you told that on holiday.
No, No, you're going to use them for sick reasons. You're going to have a good reason, medical reasons to do it. And unfortunately the answer that is no. No, Okay, I'm sorry, that's not the answer you wanted to have.
If you were sick, that would be different. I don't know whether that means you cannot go for a walk in the park with them, but if you were sick, that's different.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But you couldn't just take three sick days and then go with your son to wherever you want to go.
And I'm just wondering if Tim is actually implying maybe you should say you're sick.
I know I'm not saying that.
No, well, that's what it come across as.
Oh no, no, no, no.
Actually, that's an interesting question because I do know people who go, oh, I've got so many sick days owing to me. It's like, well, they're available to you, but they're not owed to you in the sense that you can just say I'm sick today unless you can get a.
Yeah, Colin, you should say them up because you never know what's around the corner for you.
Well, that's true because I worked for this company and when COVID struck, the government paid us eighty percent. Yeah, so we had enough, We had enough sick days that they the company paid us one hundred percent because we had so many sick days.
Ah. Yeah, well that's interesting, and of course they do accumulate up to twenty days. So yeah, it will over years and years, you get to actually get quite a you raised up. So I'm sure Colin you've done that.
Mindear Colin, would be very difficult for you to take us sicky now, because if your boss is listening and recognizes your voice would be like, how Colin, you've seen your sick days to the showte thanks.
Going, he's a good sport.
Kevin.
Hello, Hello Kevin Max.
Here just a question. I'll be for a company for on my fourth year now every year where to a I'll call it a employment review. For now, it's called an employment review, which is due in October every year. I've got the ash for it intro of the other stuff, and we haven't got it on on on that particular time, Kevin.
Is it on the employment agreement? Is it specified that every year they're going to do a review?
Okay? Oh, extended a bit in my contract that says you and you're two for a employment review in October of your anniversary obviously, but it doesn't guarantee a pay right.
No, no it doesn't. But the other thing is, Colin, Kevin, if they're not giving that to you, they are in breach of your contract. So you actually you can take a legal action against them if they I mean it's a petty reason, but I mean because they'll say I'll do it next month. But I mean, you might even say that you've been talking to this guy on the radio, Tim beverage, No, Max Whitehead, and he's advised me that you are in breach of contract by failing to give
it to me. Can I have please do a review and give consideration to a wage rise. Probably doesn't help you get a wage rise. But if you actually tell him the bosses.
Bridg actually interested in a pay rise, have you one's pay yet? But what my point is they're quite happy to throw your concrete at you a cure and brick of it. But their attitude is, well, you know, we don't care that we have done that. And what to me is they say it's not a pay review, but it is a pay review. So that's at the end on my concrete. At stage it doesn't guarantee a pay rise. Surely that means it is a pay review because it doesn't guarantee you pay right.
Well, no, and what they're just saying they're going to look at your pay I mean there's probably a whole lot of factors come into it. And you know, employers don't always always give people a handout. In fact, some people should take it the reduction, I don't know. But anyway, look, Kevin, it's a good question. I think there's a lot of people affected by it because a lot of employers get caught up and it's such a busy time and you know, I don't know what is it coming up text time
or whatever it might be. There's always a reason why they can't do it so well.
In this case of a jew and October and we haven't got it in April.
Well, I think make a fuss of it, and if you want to take it further, lodge it with the Employment Relations Authority you can for a breach of contract.
And I say, I'm not really worry about it. I just wanted to see you if I had ground to stein on. They drove something at me, So so okay, if they threw something bash at me, could I use that again to them?
Certainly you could. I mean if they are in breach now, and they are in breach later on and something comes at you, you can do it. Yeah. Hey, thanks for the call, Kevin.
Yep, got on you, Kevin, Thank you for that, right, just looking for a couple of texts here. I don't know why more businesses and organizations aren't open to older people working part time or job share. I'm a fifty five year old woman having trouble funding work when I've never had any problems funding work in the past. The union for my profession isn't very helpful.
I see EMA are actually promoting it. They're saying, folks, if you're you ought to be using older people more often, but actually do it part time and get them in for part of the hours. But use their experience and they're actually probably more stable. But and put them in a slot that you can fill. But actually you will find it quite helpful, and you can negotiate with them at a lower rate of pay than they were all used to when they were employed.
Right, We'll be back in just a just a minute. This is News Talks a B. It's ten to six News Talks a B with Tim Beverage with Max Whitehead, employment relations consultant expert guru.
Bring it on, bloke.
There we go, John, Hello, Yeah.
How you doing John?
Max here?
Yeah, I've got a question for you, guys. I've been with this being employed with this company for the top months now. I haven't had my performance and everything. It's nothing wrong with my performance at Dentist and I have put in a lot of hours this company, including working outside of the company hours that there is the weekends or inn and public holidays with contractors and everything. So I've actually, you know, apply myself and that part is to spit my market.
So what are they done to you?
John?
We'll have to keep it quick, joinks you've got about a minute and a half.
Oh okay, Now what I've been that I've just been given the notified notice about last week saying that my role has been a step disestablished.
So that's normal, John, I'm afraid you're you're heading for redundancy. The answer I got to that is my advice is to what I said to the previous quarter. Because your jobs under threat, you've got rights to some information. You've got to ask lots of questions. You know, why my job? Why is my my colleagues not doing it? What is
it that's about my role that is under threat? Is it because it's an effective and efficient And put a whole lot of really difficult questions to them and ask them and ask for it in writing, please for your advisor.
Okay, Sorry, we couldn't talk to you for longer on that, John, just because time is against us. But yeah, absolutely ask questions. You're not just someone who gets it all dished up to them. You're entitled to ask questions and to stand up for yourself.
The one term.
Yep, there you go. Hey, great to see Max.
Yeah you too.
I really enjoyed today, well as you do everyday.
Don't you make it sound like you make it sound like I enjoyed myself today. But as for a couple of weeks, a few weeks.
Now, I've always enjoyed in here. You know that you've got to be scrape me out of the off the floor to get me out of here. Yeah.
And if you want to catch up with Max, he's easy. Just google and wax Max Whitehead and Max. There's an unfortunate for them, isn't it? Max Whiteheads on eight hundred and twenty four seven ninety three three. Well, looking forward to next weekend. Just a little teaser. We're looking for the one roof radio show.
We'll have.
Elsa Wolfo was a new guest last time. She's a bit of a renovations expert on how to add value to your home and for the Health Hub. On Sunday, we've got Alex Bartle, a sleep expert, joining us and Hannah McQueen. It's been a while since we've seen Hannah, so she's back and we'll be chatting to Hannah on smart Money. Hey, thanks for your company. Thanks for your company this evening Sunday at six US next and thanks to my producers Tyra and Mary, and we'll look forward
to your company again next weekend. Have a great week, Catch you soon on the out of your Name.
Angels up in the clouds, hi Yah, let's know We down.
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