On The Line

Sakura är en rosaskimran nyhet med smak av Körsbärsblom. Den är frisk, läskande och eller vet du vad det är bättre att du prova den själv. A Sprite Zero. Bought up. Hej, du, vi behöver en bra kompostskvarn har ni det? Jej men där borta. Ja, perfekt. Tack. Nu ringer min fru hon är också här. Hej, älskar. Ja, jag har hittat den. Det var ingenting som jag behövde fråga personalen om. Hitta det du letät!

Hey small town fam, it's Yardley. How are you guys? I hope you're having a swell time wherever you are and whatever you're up to. Today we have returning fan favorite Detective Matt on the microphone. Matt's caseload, as you may remember, was mostly undercover. And while today's case didn't see Matt pretending to be someone else for months,

Catch the bad guy. I remember when we were recording this one thinking it could easily be an episode of your favorite cop show on TV, because there's a murderer, a fugitive, a maybe accomplice after the fact, and law enforcement has to get really creative with how they're gonna catch the killer. Which is where Matt comes in. Also, at around the 23, 24 minute mark, I say.

I would never take the bait that Matt is dangling in front of this potential witness who knows the suspect. And as I listened to the final edit, I couldn't help but wonder how many of you would agree with my objections. And then I thought, well how many of you would say lighten up, Yardley? So do let us know in the comments. Now, here is On the Line. Hi there, I'm Yardley. I'm Dan, I'm Dave, and I'm Paul. And this is

Smalltown Geeks. Dave and I are identical twins and retired detectives from Small Town USA. And I'm a veteran cold case investigator who helped catch the Golden State killer using a revolutionary DNA tool. Between the three of us, we've investigated thousands of crimes from petty thefts. To sexual assault, child abuse to murder. Each case we cover is told by the detective who investigated it, offering a rare, personal account of how they solved the crime.

Names, places, and certain details have been changed to protect the privacy of victims and their families. And although we're aware that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we ask you to please join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved. Out of respect for what they've been through. Thank you. Today I Small town dicks, we have The usual suspects. We have Detective Dave. Hello, Yardley. Oh hello. You're first today. I am.

We have Detective Dan. Hello, team. Hello, you and saving our in-house celebrity host for last, we have the one and only Pauls. Hey, hey, how's it going? I just want you to know, listeners, when I said that he rolled his eyes at me. And small town fam, we're so super excited. We have a fan favorite returning today. We have Detective Matt.

Hello, my favorite people, and thank you so much for having me back. Hello, Matt. It is so great to see you. Small town fam, newbies, and veteran listeners alike. You've all raved about Matt in the past, as well you should. His cases are worth a listen or a relisten if it's been a while. Just to refresh, Matt has given us Politically Incorrect from season ten. That one is a great case about political corruption where Matt goes undercover as he often did.

There's Deep Cover from season eleven and Charlie Bear in season thirteen, which is a heartbreaking case about a brutal murder. And Matt, you are back today with another phenomenal case from your long and storied career.

But hey, before we get started, you're retired now, aren't you? Yes, I am. Very thankful to be retired now. Good. Oh good. You were in it for a really long time and your caseload. Most of it under cover is unique and as you've shared with us very generously on this podcast takes a quite heavy toll on you personally as well. So and I know I've told you this before, all of y'all, but

you know, I I credit small town dicks to quite literally saving my life. Part of the reason I retired was'cause I had to medically retire. I had a very bad lung infection and no immune system. So I wasn't really recovering at all. It turns out there was a lot more to it. And I should have known this. Um I was suffering from PTSD from some of the stuff I've done. without treating it or doing the right things to get it resolved.

It was just getting worse and it was getting to the point where it was Kind of take me over. to kinda elaborate a little bit on it. When I finished Deep Cover, the second long term case, about a month after that case I went to the doctor and my blood pressure was Going from one ninety to two hundred over a hundred and five and I could not get it down. Medication. I was in good physical shape. Like there was nothing in terms of that. And so

It barely ever got below that. Even on some pretty big medications, getting it down to the one sixties was the best I could do. Up until about three months ago, I had to go off of all blood pressure medication'cause my blood pressure was too low. And now I'm averaging about one ten over seventy. Go, Matt.

And a lot of that was dealing with it, which wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for this show. And actually thank you to all the listeners because a lot of the comments and actually, hey, people understand, people respect what I did. made a huge difference. So I will continue to say thank you about every time I see y'all. We're happy to be a part of it. Your stories help us too, you know, to

relate how things impact you throughout your career and it lets us know, Hey, I'm not the only one dealing with that as well. Like Every detective we talk to has got some form of this and it's validating to me at least. I appreciate that as well. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. We're so grateful the guests we have on this. Podcast as well as the usual suspects, Dan, Dave, and Paul, the amount that you're willing to share with the listeners.

is incredibly meaningful and I do think that our audience appreciates and respects that so much. And even if they haven't done the job you guys have done there's a common thread in vulnerability and there's great solace in feeling like I'm not alone in feeling as though I don't know where I'm going or where I've been or actually have I done anything with my life. So thank you so much for sharing always. It's incredibly generous. And now, Matt, please tell us how this case came to you.

So I'm gonna start with where this case began. And before I do that a little prelude is Of all the undercover work that I've done, I think this is about the best job I've ever done. And and you'll get why. That's saying a lot,'cause As I said, your previous cases were jaw dropping, so I can't wait. Well, I just don't know how I managed to accomplish. I don't know if I could do it again, but we'll we'll get into that later.

So at this time, winter of two thousand five, the area I work is called David Three in Charlotte. and it is considered the worst area of Charlotte. Most violent crime, most drugs, most prostitution, every violent crime out there, this is where it's happening. Is David the name of

Like the part of the city or is David Three just the name that your department gave to that section of Charlotte? That's just the department. Like in New York, I'm sure everybody's heard this where they have different precincts for different areas. In Charlotte, David Three is a precinct for a better word. Got it. So I had started in patrol in David Three. Then I grew into they basically almost created a position for me and it was a street crimes type position.

and I had gotten a reputation for being able to work informants even when I was on patrol and being able to find dope. So the position that they put me in I was doing undercover work, a lot of narcotics work, a lot of prostitution work, and also working a lot of informants.

That kind of thing. And if we had a problem child in the neighborhood as we would call it or a violent offender would be a better way to put it, that was in David Three, they would say, We need to take care of this and that would be my job.

So this case started in New Hampshire and it started out with a very horrific crime. Our suspect, Craig, stabbed his wife Lynn, and his kid Dennis, and they both died. Craig is a very, very bad guy. And how old was Craig? Craig was in his forties. Was this in a heat of the moment type of homicide or was this something that it appears that Craig planned and he ended up killing his wife and kid?

So it does not appear to be pre planned. From what the DA told me, Craig went into a massive fit of rage. The number of stab wounds in Lynn was horrific. And before that he has a very lengthy criminal history. Everything from selling dope to other aggravated batteries. We all know somebody never starts with just killing somebody. There's always battery before that.

they have violent tendencies, usually a lot of domestic violence, that kind of thing. So this is the guy that we're dealing with. He doesn't value human life so This happens in New Hampshire and within twenty four hours Craig disappears from New Hampshire and obviously When it's a murder, everybody is hands on deck. We have to find this guy and we have to get him locked up as quickly as possible before he does it again. That is gonna always be the thought process.

So New Hampshire does their due diligence and is working to try to figure out where this guy may be. And one of the steps we use is what I call pinging the phone. Keep in mind this is 2005. Cell phones are a new thing, but they still have some technology. I was actually gonna ask you about that. Now when you ping a phone you can actually get quite close to where the person is. But back in two thousand and five, they did this sort of triangulation thing where it was much more general, wasn't it?

Correct. So basically back then you're just gonna get a general area, like enough to be able in this case say, oh well he's in Charlotte, North Carolina, and that's all you're gonna get. It's not gonna be much better than that. So New Hampshire has their issue. Craig makes a mistake. He uses a payphone in David Three calling back to somebody in New Hampshire.

They get wind of it. And so now they got the number for the payphone. Now you can find out exactly where he's at. And the payphone was on a street in my district. So we get the street where it's at and it's actually right in front of a motel. and a motel that I am very, very familiar with that I spend a lot of time working at. A lot of dope in and out, a lot of prostitution going in and out. This is gonna shock you, but they'll rent rooms by the hour. No way.

I know. I can't figure out what that's for though. One of these days I'll figure it out. To give you an idea of this motel. One of the first homicides I ever worked was at this motel. A guy was taken and his head bashed into the heater at wintertime and then the heater was turned on full blast and they left. Oh my God. It wasn't till the two rooms on each side could not take the smell

any longer that we were finally notified. The guy had been there for four to five days with his head in the heater with the heater on four blast. So they don't have regular cleaning service is what you're saying. Not so much, no. That's literally one of the ones I can still taste it from the smell. Everybody raise your hand if you've been in a crime scene like that. I know Paul hasn't, but the rest of us have.

So we decide we're gonna sit up on this motel and see if we can see Craig. And we literally spend three or four days just sitting there and pretty much twenty-four seven to describe this motel. It's off of a main road in Charlotte. But it only has one entrance in

Now if you have the front side, you're good to go. There's a gas station where you can sit, see the front, sit in your warm car and enjoy life and just watch the cars coming in and out and anybody that's on the front side. If you're on the back side, it's a little bit different. There is a hill behind this motel and it's a wooded hill.

So if you want to see the back, there's only one place you can be, and that's in this little wooded area. And if you don't remember, I said this was the end of two thousand five, beginning of two thousand six, which is wintertime. And it's cold. So whoever got that job at night, which half the time was me, because at this time I had the beard and the long hair and looks gruffy. So if somebody did see me in the woods, they're gonna be like, I was just a homeless guy camping. So it works out.

Now are you plain clothes at this point or are you wearing like a modified uniform? No, I'm pretty much all plain clothes. Like I had a vest if we had to do something where we all had to go hands on that just said police on it. Um and I'd wear a bottle clava on my face, but yeah, it was looking shady all the time. So three days of sitting back behind this motel and not seeing anything. There was one guy that we thought maybe one time that had shown up, but we couldn't be positive.

We come back from that and it's well, we got a problem. We got Craig in our city. We're confident he's here from the payphone, but we don't know where he is. So

We come up with a a plan B and like I said, I'm very familiar with this motel. So I take a trip out there and I meet Candy. And Candy is one of our local prostitutes. At this time Candy doesn't yet know I'm a police officer. So Candy just thinks you're a client. Yeah. And so with a lot of the cases I work, it's important that I pick up sex workers in order to make arrest and develop other cases as well.

So Candy and I go for a ride in my car as we discuss business terms for actions. We get pulled over by the police and she ends up handcuffs. For prostitution. And then I explained to Candy, Hey, I'm an undercover cop, you solicited me, we have a problem. But today's your lucky day, because I don't really want to see the first time. Hej, du vi behöver en bra kompostskvarn, har ni det? Jej men, där borta.

Ja, perfekt. Tack. Nu ringer min fru, hon är också här. Hej, älskar. Ja, jag har hittat den. Nej, det var ingenting som jag behövde fråga personalen om. Nej, men. Hitta det du. Sakura en rosaskimrande nyhet med smak av körsbärsblom. Den är frisk, läskande och eller vet du vad det är bättre att du prova den själv. Sakura Exprites.

Candy for prostitution, but you're willing to drop that charge if she's willing to give you information on Craig because Candy conducts business at this hotel and you have good information that Craig has also been at this hotel. That's correct. And so this kind of trade off, dropping minor charges for information Is often how you develop informants, isn't it? Yeah. This is your bread and butter when you're working street level narcotics. Prostitutes are one of our best sources.

And they always have information. Most of'em have a narcotics habit of some sort in this area, usually crack cocaine. So Candy doesn't really like the idea of going to jail. She thinks there are better things that she could be doing than spending her time locked up. So Kenny's like, all right, whatever you need. And

I explained to her that we have a very bad person in the area and that I heard that he was staying at that motel. I showed Candy a picture of Craig and she immediately Oh yeah, I spent some time with him about a week ago. Does she recognize him as Craig? Has Craig used his real name? Yes, Craig had used his real first name.

Matt, you're very familiar with this motel. Did you have the kind of relationship with management where you could call them offline and say, Hey, do you have anybody booked into the motel under Craig's name? Or We had other motels that were like, We're not cooperating with the police ever. So you have to get creative and you have to go outside and find sources because if you go to the door of the office, you're gonna get stonewalled.

If I went to the front door of this office, Craig would have known immediately that I went to the front door of this motel. They would have called him immediately and let him know, Hey, please start looking for you. So let me ask you a question. If this motel clerk is one of the ones who is not likely to cooperate with police.

And he's harboring Craig or or Craig has rented a room there. Is it a crime for this clerk not to give up Craig? It really depends on the state and our state if the Motel clerk knows that the person that we're looking for has a warrant and they hinder us in any way. in getting our hands on the person we've got a warrant for, then yes, they can be charged with a crime. But every state is different. It's nuanced. There's a lot of plausible deniability built in there, I would imagine. So it's uh

It's complex. Yeah. So I'm meeting with Candy. Candy says I was with Craig a week ago. She'd gotten him some crack cocaine, they had built a bit of a relationship. So I got a bit lucky. So Candy tells me that three to four days ago, Craig's third cousin, Stacy, came and picked him up and he was going to be staying with her. Candy thought that Stacy lived in Charlotte, but was not positive.

So we're kinda at a dead end at that point. Now we're like, oh crap. We don't know who this third cousin is. Call New Hampshire. New Hampshire has no idea. So it's kinda back to the drawing board.

So there is a system in the computer called Clear. And Clear and Lexus Nexus, they're kind of two of the same different things, but They are a godsend for police work. It's not the same clear as at the airport, is it, where they scan your eyeballs? These are just names of databases. And what do they do?

So you can run somebody's name. So in this case, we ran Craig's full name with his databas, Social Security, check that we're law enforcement, and it gives us a whole report. Now it gives you every kind of car he's owned, his arrest history, his friends, any accounts he's had, and it gives all his associates and best of all, family. So it becomes tedious at this point because you're literally going check by check by check. Some of the relatives it may not give addresses or anything like that.

So you have to take that name and then plug it in to find out do they have a driver's license in Charlotte? That kind of thing. So if the relative of your suspect If their address isn't listed in this clear database, then you might check with the local DMV to see if you can get their address that way. Yeah. And you just go name by name by name to try to find out who Craig may be with. Can I ask you a question, Matt? How does

Candy know that Craig is staying with his third cousin. Does Candy know Stacy? So Candy does not know Stacy. Candy does know that Stacy came to that motel and picked him up and took him away. So Stacy picked Craig up and somehow they were introduced like Craig said, This is my cousin or something. Correct. So we find Stacy under clear and sure enough, she has a driver's license in Charlotte.

Perfect. Now it's back to doing surveillance, which if you've ever done undercover work or well, pretty much any type of case for the most part, when you're trying to find somebody. You spend more time in your car just waiting to find them than I would like to believe. That's why we eat a lot of junk food. It's not healthy. Those are some of the longest shifts when you're just sitting there. Yeah. So we're sitting on Stacy's place and we see Stacy come and go. So that's a positive.

Hey, we've got the right place. Let's just stay on it. So three more days go by of sitting on this place and no signing. Craig. Stacy is the only person coming from this place. And how old was Stacy? Stacy was in her thirties. Okay. We go back to the office. We got to come up with a game plan. Either a knock and talk, which a knock and talk would basically be we just go up to her door.

Knock and say, Hey, this is who we are. We're looking for this person. Can we come in and look for'em? Which is a very viable option, used a lot of time. We were not comfortable with that. We thought Stacy is not gonna give up Craig. Why don't you think Stacy will give up Craig?

She picked him up from this motel. She knows something's wrong. So chances are she knows he's wanted for murder. She's already agreed to let him stay there. What are really the chances that she's gonna let us come in there and look for him? This is where my greatest UC part comes in.

We decide to go a different route. And Let's make a call to Stacy because we did get her phone number off of the clear report. So we're like we can place a call to her when we know she's at home and just keep her on the line for an extended period. to see if we can hear a male voice in the background. Get a little more information that way.

So it's like all right, that seems possible. We can at least give it a shot and see what happens. And what's the premise of the call to Stacy? Is this a cold call? This is a complete cold call. And Stacy, we look her up, no criminal history. There's no wedge we can put in there. Stacy appears to be your average citizen. So we're gonna have to play this one really, really well.

Sakura en rosaskimran nyhet med smak av körsbersblom. Den är frisk, läskande och eller vet du vad det är bättre att du prova den själv. Sakura Eksprigeser. Hej, du behöver en bra kompostskvarn har ni det? Jajmen där borta. Ja, perfekt. Nu ringer min fru hon är också här. Hej, älskar. Ja, jag har hittat den. Det var ingenting som jag behövde fråga personalen. ご視聴ありがとうございました So I agree to make the call.

I spend, you know, a couple times game planning. All right, how am I gonna do this? What am I gonna say? How do I just keep Stacey on the line? So I figure all right, first of all, I gotta come up with a reason why I called this number. So I figure all right I'm gonna ask for somebody that's not Stacy. and start with that and see if I can get her to open up and just have a conversation. So I pick up the phone, take a couple of deep breaths in there and uh give her a call and

I say, Hey, is Linda there? And Stacy's like, who? And I said, Linda, this is Linda, isn't it? And she's like, No, this is Stacy. I don't know Linda And I'm like, Are you sure?'Cause I I just met Linda the other day. We were supposed to go on a date. She gave me a number, we really, really hit it off. Is there any way can you think of any Linda you know?

And she actually starts to crack a little bit. Like you can hear it in her voice. The original voice was, This isn't Linda. Very standoff sh and Stacy goes, I'm thinking, but I can't think of a single Linda that I know. I was like, oh, you gotta be kidding me. I said we hit it off so well. I haven't dated anybody since my wife died. And that was a key statement right there. Cause then you got that little little gasp. I'm like, all right, we're we got this. We can do this.

Stacy is nibbling at the hook. Right, exactly. And then I was like, Well, I thank you so much for your time And I said, You sound so pretty on the line and I have never said that to anybody. And Stacy bit. Perfect. She's a Oh, aren't you just the sweetest thing? And keep in mind this is Charlotte, you know, everybody's got that Southern Twang thing, so add that into that. And then she's like, Well, what kind of date were you supposed to go on with Linda?

I was like, well, I was just gonna get a bottle of wine and w you know, we were just gonna have dinner and talk and get to know each other better. And she says, Oh, that sounds like a great date. Now I've got a different idea. And this is what I'm thinking to myself without asking my sergeant for approval. What if I was able to set up a date with Stacy at Stacy's house? And that way I could see if Craig is at Stacy's house. It seemed like a genius idea to me.

So I talked to Stacy for a while longer and we're really hitting it off and seems like we have a lot in common since I keep agreeing with her. Finally I said, What if I picked up a bottle of wine and some food and come over to your place and we can get to know each other? And Stacy says, that sounds like it'd be a great evening. And I said, Well, give me a little while. I gotta get off work.

And then I'll come over, I'll call you when I'm coming to your house. And she says, All right, I can't wait. Oh my God, I just wanna say in a million years I cannot imagine doing that. And now especially having done this podcast since twenty sixteen, I'd be like, fuck no. First of all, who says you sound pretty when they've never met you?

No. It's it hard no. You've seen this movie before. Oh my God. Again, my greatest undercover work I've ever done. That's why right there. Incredible. Matt's a closer.

The second hardest part was convincing my sergeant that this was a good idea. Cause I'm explaining to my sergeant that I'm gonna go see Stacy inside her house. You guys are gonna be as close as you can get without being obvious. in the van to rush out and come rescue me if necessary and arrest Craig if he's there. What can go wrong? So you still think Craig might be in Stacy's apartment or in her house? Correct. And it is a house. She has a house, it's on the south side of Charlotte.

And you want your team to be nearby so that if Craig squirts out, they can grab him. Boom. Piece of cake. And you're wired up. Correct. And I have my cell phone and I said, Well, you know what? I'll send a text, like, hey, all good. And as soon as I say all good. Y'all come in, or at least knock on the front door and I'll make sure it opens. I mean that sounds like a good plan, right? There's nothing wrong with that. There are some holes, yes. What? You sound just like my sergeant.

So I explained this to Sergeant. Now keep in mind this sergeant had been my sergeant for a while. He's listening to my idea and originally he's like, No, we're not doing that. That's a horrible idea. After a very long conversation I finally wore him down to where he's like, All right His thing was they're not gonna be in the van, they're gonna be on the side of the house. If they get spotted, they get spotted, he doesn't care. So your sergeant wants

his team to be two seconds away instead of around the corner, for instance, in case something goes wrong. Yeah. That was fair enough because we are dealing with a psychopath. When I say psychopath, I'm talking about Craig. Are you carrying on this? Yes. Where do you hide your weapon? So it was tucked in my waistband. I had a shorty and that's just a subcompact. But yeah, this time I carried'cause I don't think I could've talked my sergeant into No, I don't need a gun, it'll be fine.

So the team lines up on the side of the house. I get a bottle of wine and some food. I think I may have gotten Harris Teeter sushi if I remember correct. Which is risky. You don't know if Stacy likes sushi. Maybe she likes all her food cooked. That's very possible. I wasn't really thinking about that though. Matt, earlier you said you'd fit in well on the lookout behind the motel because you were scruffy and bearded.

Did you clean up at all before you knocked on Stacy's door? So that's actually a great question. Yes, I actually cleaned up because of that very reason. fitting the environment. If I look nicer in this one, Stacy's not gonna throw me out. If I look homeless, less chance I'm getting in that front door. So yeah, I uh trimmed the beard, I didn't get rid of it, but I cut it down to where it looked nice and then I just con Somewhat presentable even with long hair.

Something that just pleases the ladies. So knock on the front door, Stacy answers the door, wearing like a lingerie top and pajama shorts. Oh no, no, no. Oh God. I want to sit Stacy down and make her listen to this podcast. You know, so she doesn't answer the door to a complete stranger wearing lingerie. Not to mention, it's the dead of winter. It's freezing outside. Exactly.

So she's um she's expecting a good time. Netflix and chill. Oh god. Two thousand five. Like did we even have color TV back then? This was V C R and Chill. Or Blockbuster and Chill, I guess. So

Go in and pop the wine, pour a couple of glasses, get to talking. How do you even begin? What do you guys talk about? The main topic of conversation was how my wife died. She definitely felt bad for me that I lost my wife. How did your wife die, supposedly? Car accident. Oh. Nothing super creative. I went kind of bland on that one. Better than a long drawn out illness, I suspect. Exactly.

So the way the house is set up, you walk in and there's kind of like the kitchen on the right, dining area on the left, and past that as a living room and then a small hallway that led back to bedrooms. And within a few minutes. Out comes Craig from the bedroom. Just as nice as can be, Guy introduces himself.

Pretty much, hey, I'm staying with my cousin for a while. Meanwhile I'm trying to get my phone out of my pocket, not drop it, not shake to death, that kind of thing. And holler at my team outside and say, All's good. And quick they're at the door knocking on the front door. Went to the front door and said, I'll get it Even though it's Stacy's house. I think by the time it hit her that I just said I would get her own door. It was too late at that point, doors open.

Craig is in plain sight, so they come in and put him in handcuffs and say you're under arrest and then I explain to Stacy that this date was not gonna happen, though I appreciate everything and she seems like a very nice lady. But that the person staying with her has murder warrants. I did try to ask her, Did you know he had warrants? She said, No, I had no idea. I don't think she was telling me the truth, but she wasn't about to admit that Oh yeah, that's why he was hiding here.

For me personally, if I'm on the run, multiple states away from where I committed a double murder, and I'm staying at somebody's house and they bring in a complete stranger, I'd be asking, What the fuck are you doing? I don't want anyone in this house. It's one of those dynamics that I think most people could recognize.

Well, like Yardley said earlier, no matter what, if I talk to my third cousin like, Oh, I have a day coming over and I just talked to him on the phone for the first time a couple of hours ago. But like, well yeah, he's not coming over. Matt, how soon before the cavalry arrived to arrest Craig? How long were you in that house with Stacy having a glass of wine? For about five minutes. Oh, really fast.

Yeah, it did not take long at all for him to come out. I don't know if he heard the cork pop and thought, Oh, I could use a glass of wine. But it definitely did not take long. The cavalry breaks into her apartment while you're on your faux date. First it was shock, and then she had to get over the shock. I genuinely felt a little bit bad'cause, you know, Stacy was expecting one thing and

you know, I had no reason to believe she's a bad person besides harboring the murderer, but that's different. There did not appear to be any surprise except for the little bit of play surprise about finding out Craig is a murderer. So you don't think she was actually surprised that he was a murderer? She knew. I'm confident she knew.

Number one is Craig's family and word had to have spread pretty quickly throughout all the family. And then top it all off, Stacy is picking Craig up from one of the worst motels in the world. In Charlotte, maybe the worst motel in Charlotte. So two and two, she had to put it together. I think she was more surprised that this wasn't a date.

And I explained afterwards too that my wife didn't actually die, which I was hoping I didn't get bad karma from that too, because I feel like that was kind of a horrible thing to do. I was married at the time. You totally catfished, Stacy. That's a crime today, isn't it?

I don't know what it is, but Stacy probably felt betrayed. A little bit. But I did try to talk to her afterwards and apologize to her and just explain, you know, we really felt Craig needed to be taken out the street, so we were scared for other people's safeties, including hers.

He might do something to her. Domestic violence was his forte. And not to get too personal, but are y are you still married? I am still married, yes. Okay. Which is shocking with all the stuff I put her through, but anyway. We've met your lovely wife. Hej, du vi behöver en bra kompostskvarn, har ni det? Jajamen, där borta. Ja, perfekt. Tack. Nu ringer min fru hon är också här. Hej, älskar. Ja, jag har hittat den. Det var ingenting som jag behövde fråga personalen om. Hitta det du letar.

Sakura är en råaskimran nyhet med smak av körsbersblom. Den är frisk, läskande och eller vet du vad det är bättre att du prova den själv. Sakura Esprights Zero. Hej, du vi behöver en bra kompostskvarn, har ni det? Jej men, där borta. Ja, perfekt. Tack. Nu ringer min fru hon är också här. Hej, älskar. Ja, jag har hittat den. Det var ingenting som jag behövde fråga personalen. ご視聴ありがとうございました

Sakura- en rosaskimrande nyhet med smak av körsbersblom. Den är frisk, läskande och eller vet du vad det är bättre att du prova den själv. Sakura Exprites.

First he was in complete shock. When they came in and put cuffs, he was still trying to process everything in his head. And he didn't say anything. The only comment he made was, I had to leave New Hampshire because of what happened. That was the only response. Did he invoke? Did you guys just wait for New Hampshire authorities to fly down and try to get an interview on him? You guys kind of take a step back. Your job is to get him into custody.

not to interrogate because you don't know the intimate details of what happened up in New Hampshire. Yeah, you just hit the nail on the head. I mean we stayed in contact with New Hampshire. and they wanted to do the interrogation. Rightfully so. I don't have any complaints or anything. I would be the exact same way. Like you said, they know everything about the case. I don't. I could send this down the wrong road.

And totally mess up their investigation. It's pretty common when you're in law enforcement, you get a bolo, a be on the lookout, or you have a direct conversation with an outside agency from another state. They'll tell you, Hey, I've got PC, probable cause For this person.

If you grab him, don't question him, I want to question him. Or you'll get other directions. Sometimes in a bolo, you can ask him questions if you want. That's fine. Typically though, it's especially on a big case where you've got a homicide. where those little details are really gonna matter, that outside agency will say, please don't question them. So advise them of their rights when they go into handcuffs and wait for us to come down and we want to interview'em.

So Matt, did the agency from New Hampshire come down to Charlotte to question Craig? Or did you send Craig back up to New Hampshire? We sent Craig back up. Like New Hampshire will pay to have him extradited immediately, especially in that case. They wanna get him up there quick. Did you get called to testify against Craig?

Yes. When you testify against Craig, what's his affect in the courtroom? Is he just scowling at you because you're the guy who got him nabbed? No, he had a very blank look the entire time. Besides being shocked in the beginning, once he composed himself from there There was zero remorse. He definitely didn't care about what he did. Remorse would only be, damn, I got caught. But there is a look

Like on the street, you know when you're about to get in a fight with the guy, when he has that thousand yards there. When he doesn't see you, you're like, Oh crap, this is not gonna end well. It was that look all the time for this guy. It just did not go away. Now, Matt, you may not know the details of the double homicide, but you opened up saying Craig had a history of battery and D V, I'm assuming, on his wife.

Does it look like he killed his wife and then went into a different room and stabbed his kid? Or were they all in the same room at the time that he's killing them? I believe they were all in the same room and leading out onto the front porch, from what I remember the DA telling me. You've got a double homicide and then Craig leaves the state.

In essence, there's almost an admission in his post offense behavior in terms of leaving the state. Obviously when Craig is taken into custody You're handling him with the mindset that New Hampshire needs to talk to him for their double homicide. Craig does not sound like he's very evidence savvy. Do you know if New Hampshire found any evidence either on his person or within his possessions? at Stacy's place or stored in a bus locker or anything like that.

So and I didn't know this till speaking with the DA when I got down there, but they had a ton of evidence. Craig left everything in the house. Fit of rage and the easiest ones are when They just do it out of rage'cause they don't hide anything, it seems like. Everything was still there. Did they actually charge him with a first degree murder, uh two counts? Yes, they did. And they did get the conviction as well with the jury. And so what kind of sentence did Craig end up getting? Craig got life.

So start to finish, from the time you guys are informed by New Hampshire, hey Craig is somewhere in Charlotte. To the time that you're putting cuffs on him at Stacy's house, how many days? A little over two weeks. Good work. Took a little bit longer than I would have liked. I mean, obviously you want that one quick, but we're working pretty much twenty four seven for that, so I'll take it.

Did Stacy have to testify because Craig had stayed with her once he left New Hampshire? No, they did not bring her down. They used me to testify to his whereabouts in Charlotte. to prove that he continued to try to evade. What if they would have put you and Stacy up at the same hotel up in uh New Hampshire?

See, I don't like your jokes. Matt, you mentioned at the top of this case that you feel like it's your finest undercover work. Tell us about that. So Number one and everybody's gonna call BS on this, but I'm actually very, very shy. A bit of an introvert. So U C work goes against everything I guess I should be, but anyway, it works for me.

That's where the failed actor comes in. Oh, that's right. I remember you told us in a previous episode that you thought about becoming an actor. Yeah. Like aren't a lot of actors supposedly introverts? Oh yeah, we are. Mm-hmm. Hundred percent.

So that's where it comes from. But anyway, to pick up the phone and have to draw out a conversation with someone, I didn't think there was any way I could pull it off. So that's why I kinda was like, wow, that is definitely my finest moment. It's the dulcet tones. Malefluous voice.

I think you figured out your retirement gig now. You can just go into telemarketing. I'm glad you said telemarketing. I thought you were getting time to just start calling up women. In the other undercover work that you have Shared with us. you had to cozy up to some pretty bad dudes and while you had to get really close to them There wasn't any romantic component to it. Was it nerve wracking to go basically on this blind date with this woman even though you knew

you had an ulterior motive, it was for the greater good. Like do you get nervous when you do stuff like that? Oh, one hundred percent. Especially this one, because you're knocking on the front door and I'm thinking to myself What crazy person is allowing me to have a first date after just talking on the phone and spitting all that stuff out? So yeah, I had no idea what I was walking into. Matt, I am so fascinated by this undercover work.

And it's a little bit like being an actor, except the stakes are way higher for you because You know, I've said it before so many times, even if I suck in a role, nobody wants to kill me. At least not that I know of. I don't know. I heard directors can be very mean. It's true. Right. Let's talk about the worst directors. No, you can't do that. No, you can't. And critics can end your career and then there's the audience who takes no prisoners.

I'm glad that in this case, obviously, Stacy, you're unwitting. She just wanted to make out with you. She didn't want to kill you. Maybe enjoy a glass of Pinot or whatever red you brought. Or a yellow tail. The great thing about your work is you have to think on your feet. And Matt came up with a plan and it worked. Simpler is better. Right. That is very true. Flirtatious Matt gets the job done.

Yeah, that is something I've never been called before. Even my wife, like she still makes fun of me because the night we met, like I hardly talked to her. Matt's wife is spectacular as well. She is. We got to meet her when we all convened in Florida. It was the first time we'd met you in person, and we got to go out to dinner with you and your lovely wife. I have such respect and admiration for

what you did for your entire law enforcement career and I personally am glad that you're done and spending time with your family and getting to heal your heart and your soul. Well I appreciate that very much. Thank you. Thanks for that story, Matt. Great job. Thank you so much. Smalltown Dix was created by Detectives Dan and Dave. The podcast is produced by Jessica Halstead and me, Yardley Smith. Our senior editor is Soren Bajan, and our editors are Christine. Dina Bracamantes and Erin Phelps.

Our associate producers are the real Nick Smitty and Erin Gaynor. Gary Scott is our executive producer, and Logan Heftel. Is our production manager. Our books are cooked and cats wrangled by Ben Cornwell. And our social media maven is Monica Scott. It would make our day if you became a member of our small town fam by following us on Facebook. Facebook, Instagram and YouTube at Small Town Dicks. We love hearing from you. Oh, our groovy theme song was composed.

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