Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen and this is Small Firm, Big Impact.
Young people or those with early, early career or less experience are just not afraid to ask for the pay rises, for what they want. We also this year asked about um, members' expectations on their pay rises and whether or not these
were were met. Um, and I guess with interest rates, inflation and the cost of living crisis combined with the shortage of talent across the accounting profession or, you know, really many roles across different sectors, it's really resulted in a heightened interest in not only what people get paid, but like the other benefits they receive as well.
It's the podcast giving Chartered Accountants the up to date information they need to do their jobs. Each episode, I share resources, tools and expert advice provided by Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand and a range of people across our profession. So get following the pod in your favourite podcast app. Let's start a conversation. Today we have Charlotte Evett, FCA, our NZ Regions General Manager. The topic? The latest CA
ANZ member remuneration survey. Charlotte welcome back to Small Firm, Big Impact.
Hi Gill. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.
First off let's make it clear we're going to use the word REM because saying remuneration constantly is going to trip you and I up. And let's do a bit of a quick explanation about what the CA ANZ member remuneration survey is. Sort of what it measures.
Well, um, first of all, Gill, we've been running the the REM survey for several years now so we've got a really great bank of data. And um, and just to give members and listeners confidence, the, um, the survey is carried out and administered and the data analysed independently. So this year we used independent research firm Kantar and it's a hot member favourite. So this year we had um say almost 6000 member responses. So so um, it
measures a variety of things. I think one of the hot interest areas is, um, members information on their pay or total remuneration, as we call it in the survey. Um, we also look at non pay benefits that members receive from their employer. And then we slice and dice it by members roles, their location, the years experience. Um, and then we also this year asked about um members expectations on their pay rises and whether or not these were
were met. Um, and I guess with interest rates, inflation and the cost of living crisis combined with the shortage of talent across the accounting profession or, you know, really many roles across different sectors, it's really resulted in a heightened interest in not only what people get paid, but
like the other benefits they receive as well. Um, and, and from anecdotal and actual evidence, it's to me, it's a key tool that employers use to attract and retain top talent because they can't just keep paying more and more and more. So they're looking to those additional benefits that they can help lure employees. And with um, we also though um, so that's one part of it, I guess we also seek in previously and continue to, um, get views around knowledge and behaviours in the workplace that
contribute to the the gender pay gap. So some of the findings were fascinating and I'm sure we'll touch on them in more detail soon.
Mhm. Mhm. Now on that the survey and its findings are available to download from the CA ANZ website. And there's been plenty of coverage in the media. So I will put a link in our website. Uh, I will put a link to our website in the show notes, because this podcast isn't going to be able to discuss everything in the survey in depth, right? We've only got a short amount of time. So we're...
...going to go need all day for that.
Absolutely. We're going to give you some highlights. And then if you want to find out more you can. So with that in mind and that we're talking to many of our small and medium sized practice members here, let's start with the median total REM. What are the details there.
Uh, well median total remuneration I guess the headline is that it grew by 3% this year or 2023, um, compared to 11% in 2022. But, uh, that's just the headline number. And I guess when we sort of dig into the data, there were some quite interesting variances between countries, um, different sectors. And to me, most interestingly by years experience.
Mhm. Um mhm. Yeah. Yeah. The younger the younger talent. Well let's first of all what about going a quick snapshot on Australia and New Zealand. The differences there. And then perhaps talk me through um the the look at the the the different experiences breakdown.
Okay. Well we looked at full time and part time. So in Australia um medium remuneration or total REM was $155,000 for full time and $112 for part time, and each country is reported in local currency. So in New Zealand it was yes, it was $140,000 for full time workers and $92,700 for part time workers. So there is a difference which has, um, you know, been consistent throughout the years between countries and also between what full time workers get paid and the equivalent for part time workers.
Um, there's been a lot of focus, um, in, in the media coverage of our REM survey on young talent and, and the younger, uh, CAs and their increases in regards to, to pay and and to REM. What is it? Um, let's go through that first. What's the highlight there?
Oh, it really is a highlight because we've read a lot about, you know, now is the time to be a young chartered accountant or to be thinking about, um, studying and becoming a chartered accountant. And this data shows that that couldn't be more true. So, um, beneath that sort of headline number of a 3% raise, you know, between the years compared to 11% last year, early career members. And we defined them as those. With 0 to 5
years experience. They reported receiving a really. Significantly large pay rise than those like me, unfortunately, with more experience. So, um, a at least a 7.6% pay rise, they reported, um, of those that received a pay rise. So in many cases this is likely to have been larger. And we didn't actually go up and bands from there. But, you know,
I imagine there were some pretty decent pay rises. So to me this says, um, young people or those with early um, early career or less experience are just not afraid to ask for the pay rises for what they want. And also there is such a tight market for talent and especially, um, with less experience at the moment, um, employers are having to meet that to in order to secure the good talent, which is where the good news story.
And we'll touch on this later. Um, Gill but the good news story, because obviously employers can't just keep getting out their cheque book, to use an old parlance of the days of cheques and writing bigger and bigger, um, you know, giving bigger and bigger pay increases. There are limits on, on what employers can pay. So that's where the, um, the additional benefits that the non remuneration benefits come in, which is really interesting.
Yes. I'm making a note to ensure that I do bring up and talk about the additional benefits. And if we don't that information is in the full survey information which is on the website. The other part two. So besides the young CAs asking for the extra pay rise, the other flip side to that is the benefits of being able to say that if you go into a career of accounting, of being a CA, when you begin, there is an opportunity, a real opportunity to receive a
good amount of remuneration, and that's good for them. The flow down into attracting talent and the pipeline and then eventually helping shortages so that the squeeze isn't so there for our members who are really crying out to someone, help to help them with the workload.
Yeah, yeah, well, when you pay more for something, it's, you know, demand and supply, I guess, basic economics that makes it more attractive. So it will increase the supply. And the really interesting, um, one of the really interesting findings to me was, and you can see this on the charts when you go into the remuneration survey report, it's not like, you know, some other careers, um, that that people might select where you hit a ceiling at
a point in your career. You can see every year as experience increases right through to, you know, 30 years plus members reported, um, receiving sort of a bump up in their, um, median remuneration. So remuneration continues to grow, um, steadily throughout um, a member's career, which is, you know, really good news.
Mhm. Mhm. It's a good point on the sectors. Then when we look at the different places and areas and organizations that our members work, what did the REM survey find out about that?
Well, um, again this has been pretty consistent through years. Um the corporate sector were the most highly paid on average, followed by not for profit government and then public practice. So that's not to say for those, you know, in public practice, of which many of our listeners will be that public practice pays poorly, it most certainly doesn't. In fact, it can pay very, very well. But, um, in my experience, public practice firms usually employ a larger number of more
junior staff. So that's going to bring down the reported average pay level. But you know, they actually pay decently. But that's the way that, um, that the average is turned out. And then when we look between countries, I guess if we break those results per sector down a bit further and Australia public practice, REM actually was the highest growth overall by sector. So overall that went up 6% um between years. Um, then we when we look at
New Zealand this was interesting. And to me it made a lot of sense because I'm based in New Zealand. So very aware of what's going on here. But the, um, government are not not for profit sector. REM actually increased by 9% between years, which is a very high number for government. But I like um, I would say that is most likely due to the lifting of the public sector pay freeze, which had been in place for a few years in New Zealand. Yes, lifted in early 2023.
So that may well explain that large increase between years.
Yes, that's a very good point. Look, before we move on to having a chat about the gender pay gap, let's talk about the additional benefits that the survey looks at. And that is going to be key for our SMP listeners who are with us today. What are we talking about there?
Well, um members received a range of different and additional benefits. Interestingly, um, the top benefit reported across both countries was free or subsidised professional membership. Um, so that includes membership for CA ANZ, or it could be for another professional body. So in New Zealand, 88% of respondents or members who responded reported receiving free or subsidised professional memberships. In New Zealand, it was 68%, uh, sorry, Australia it was 68%. So just
over two thirds. Um, but there were a range of other benefits reported. For example, um, almost 20% of Australian respondents reported receiving additional paid leave in in New Zealand. That was about a third. So that's a really important one, I think for people that are feeling, um, just burnt out and and worn down. So there were other things like private health insurance. Um, in New Zealand, 29% of um members that responded received um free or subsidised health insurance.
That was a lot lower in Australia. That was 4%. Um, but an.
Opportunity potentially for Australian firms.
Yeah for sure. Um, in Australia, 41% of members, um, that was full time members reported receiving a bonus or some kind of at risk component. So that was a bit lower in New Zealand, only 31%. So, um, you know, bonuses are used more in Australia. But um, yeah, it was interesting. Um, but I think sort of overall, when we had a look, we saw that New Zealand, um, you were more likely to receive an additional benefit in
New Zealand than you were overall in Australia. That could include a mobile phone, like I said, health insurance, you know, education like paid education, annual leave, etc.. And I think the conclusion that that I drew from this, um, and I mentioned it earlier, is that, you know, whilst base pay is important, obviously we go to work to earn the money that pays our bills. Um, it's not it's not the be all and end all. And in terms of an attraction and retention tool, we've got employers have
all these different tools at their disposal. Disposal. Some of them are, um, you know, at zero cost to them or very little cost. And they're very important. And being able to attract and retain top talent in a really competitive market.
Mhm. Mhm. All good points. Look let's talk gender pay gap first I think we should explain how it's measured.
Yeah for sure. Well we um measured the gender pay gap using the median hourly pay. And I guess just to take a step back and explain, I think because we all think we know what the gender pay gap is. But I hear a lot of people say, well, isn't that just same, you know, same pay for same role? And I think it's important to understand that actually the gender pay gap is the difference in median earnings of men and women across all roles in a workforce. So
for us it's across the accounting profession. But um, it can be any workforce. In fact you measure them by countries as well. And it's expressed as the difference between, um, men's pay and women's pay, um, as a percentage of men's pay.
Okay. All right. So, um, and this information about all of that in the survey as well, to explain how the numbers have been calculated, what has the survey found in regards to CAs?
So the survey found that when compared to 2022. So that was the previous year the survey was done. Um the pay gap in Australia closed by six percentage points. It went down to 13%. Um, it was a lot more stubborn in New Zealand and it went down by a percentage point to 22%.
So and there's some there's some analysis, isn't there, as to why we think that that's the case.
We're of the view that the requirement, um, from 2024, there would be a requirement for organisations with a workforce of 100 or more employees to publish their pay gap has really influenced that drop down from um by six percentage points, the pay gap between us and Australia. So that's really influenced the reporting requirement that transparency requirements really
influence pushing that down. Um, we don't have any similar to similar mandatory reporting requirements yet in New Zealand, although we're working really, um, closely with the government and officials to hopefully get that over the line. And we made some really good progress last year. Um, but in terms of reporting your pay gap for your organisation, we have a gender pay gap playbook, which Gill will put in
the the links to this podcast. And that has some really practical steps that you can take in your organisation. If you're a, you know, small or medium sized practice or any organisation that you can take to work towards, first of all, measuring your pay gap and then, um, educating your leaders within your, your workplace and really, really working towards helping close your pay gap and your organisation. So, um, and we're updating that with the latest data from the
REM survey. So it'll be really current and it's so easy to step through. So I encourage you to have a look.
On that point of education. There is some interesting research as well in the REM survey about whether or not that view of the existence of a gender pay gap even exists. There's some data on that too.
They certainly is. Gill. So each year we ask members, um, whether or not they believe a pay gap exists, like you pointed out. So this year, the number or the percentage of of respondents that believed a pay gap exists dropped from 49% in 22 to 45% this year. Um, interestingly, women are more likely. Almost two thirds of women, or just over 67% believe a pay gap exist, whereas only 28% of men believe it exists. Um, I think of more people understood what the pay gap is and how it
comes about. And if they actually took the time to read through our playbook, which has been written to sort of bust those myths.
Um.
Then I think they may reach a different conclusion, because I think it's irrefutable. There is a gender pay gap, and both countries, it's measured by the governments. Um, there is no doubt the data is there, that there is a gender pay gap. So to me, we're missing a bit of education here. And I really encourage people that are a little bit skeptical to go and have a look at our gender pay gap playbook, because there are, you know, like, um, there are a lot of.
Scenarios in there as well. Real world scenarios. And the other point to make is, and you did say it at the start, that it is not about, um, paying, um, pay for pay as in it is it is illegal to not pay someone, um, the same salary for doing exactly the same job. And that is.
Outlawed in the 70s. So yes.
Yeah, exactly. It's not what the gender pay gap is, but I can see why there would be confusion that people think, well, um, people are getting paid the same for the same job, what are you talking about? So listeners of the podcast will know how much I enjoy putting a link to CA ANZ resources in the show notes, so there will be plenty of links in there for you to go and check out. Look, we're out of time.
We have had a great discussion here on a useful resource for our members, particularly our SMP members, and a discussion about the playbooks and resources that can support you. And also, I'm going to give the plug a plug to the REM survey that will in a matter of months, will hit your inbox again. And if you are keen to participate because we've had a great number of members, get involved, this, uh, to the to the one that
we've just released. So that's the 2023 survey. But if you see it pop into your inbox to give your information for the 2024 survey, please complete it. Click on it, because the information, the data is key. It helps us doesn't it?
Oh, it's hugely helpful. And can I also give another little plug is that if you go into My CA you can get access to the very detailed data tables which break the number of um, the REM by location, by role. So for example, if you're in Victoria and you're a junior accountant and you've got 0 to 5 years experience, they have the responses listed out and that level of detail. And so you can go in there
and see what other people are getting paid. Um, so go have a look in mMy CA, those tables are broken down into tiny levels of detail in that that's the part I love as probably a bit of a data nerd. So.
Um, I will put a link to My CA in the show notes as well, so you don't have to go off and find it. For those who are listening along with us today, look, that is all we have time for. Have you checked out the podcast page on the CA ANZ website? It's been given a revamp for the start of season four, so please go and check it out. I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well, because there's plenty of great content,
experts and interviews and resources tailored just to you. And if you are looking for anything, that is the place to get it. And of course, you'll also see a link to the podcast in the newsletters you receive from CA ANZ. So check your preferences while you are looking at the REM survey in My CA. If you want to get in touch with the podcast, email us podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com and follow the pod in your favourite podcast app. Let's start
a conversation. Thank you Charlotte Evett, for being my guest on Small Firm, Big Impact.
My pleasure.
Bye bye .