Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen. This is Small Firm, Big Impact.
The graduates are often, they have a deeper level of expertise and a broader perspective to their roles. So they've gone through this rigorous training and their exams, and they tend to have a stronger grasp of the complex financial concepts.
An enhanced level of research skills, the rounded educational piece that graduates come out of with a with a finished skill set, which is, uh, broader and, um, helps them deal with the multitude of, um, business issues that come up day to day.
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podcast app. Let's start a conversation. Today we have Erinn Stanley CA, a Manager at William Buck, which is one of Australia's largest mid-tier accounting firms, and Justin Enright CA, Managing Partner at Morse Group. The topic: the benefits of getting your employees to do the CA Program. Erinn and Justin, welcome to the podcast.
Hello. Great to be here.
Morning, Erinn. Thanks and wonderful to be here as well. Thank you.
Look, Erinn, I'll go to you first. What do you love about being a Chartered Accountant?
Well, for me it's the variety. No two days are the same. One day I might be, you know, working on a start up tech company with their cash flow. And the next I might be solving a complex tax problem for a large scale business. So that's what I really like, the variety. There's also a real sense of pride in knowing I'm helping businesses with their financial decisions.
Okay, Justin, what about you?
Uh, not dissimilar to, uh, Erinn. A lot of the variety. Um, it's also a lot about the relationships, relationships you develop with clients over time. Uh, with colleagues and team members. Yeah, it's a big part of it as well.
So what made you then, Justin, decide that becoming a CA in particular was important to you?
Oh, a natural progression in a way. Um, I mean, it's, um, the, uh, first step in career development after, um, graduating from, um, an undergraduate degree and, uh, it's a cornerstone to, um, uh, stepping forward in your career.
Erinn, what about you in particular about the CA designation?
Yeah. Honestly, I kind of fell into it. So, um I always knew I wanted to be some sort of professional, but at uni doing my accounting subjects all sort of started clicking and I thought, yep, this is for me. And then I thought, okay, well where can I go from here? I'll join a CA practice. And there, seeing my Managers and my Directors and Partners advising clients I thought, yeah, this is for me. I need to I need to start my studies and become a Chartered Accountant.
Okay, I like that. I like that it's seeing the path that was available, seeing a path that was one that really resonated with you. So now, if I want you both to think about the people that you work with, the employees that are at your businesses, at your practices, and that they are following in your footsteps, so to speak. Um, Justin, why is it important for you to put your employees through the CA Program?
Oh, it's important for a variety of reasons. Um, I guess first of all, um, it's got the reputation in the marketplace. It's the, uh brand, um, uh, awareness. It's about the Program itself being such a rigorous program. Uh, it's all about, um, consistency. So, um, in all of our team members, if, um, they know that they'll be, um, all, uh, progressing through that Program, then, um, it keeps our, uh, our DNA, if you like, um, all consistent in that
regard as well. Um, it's also about giving, um, our team members opportunity to network with their peers, uh, broaden their exposure and, um, and just, uh, raise their awareness, I guess, generally speaking, as well.
Mmh, Erinn, is there anything you'd like to add to that?
Yeah. So as a larger mid-tier, there is a requirement for the majority of our graduates to actually complete their CA studies as part of their career progression. Um, and what we see is that we're investing in the team and showing them that we're committed to their professional growth.
Mhm, mhm. And in your view then Erinn as well, thinking about, um, those that go through the CA Program in particular, how do the graduates compare to employees who haven't completed the Program, for example?
Uh, from my perspectives, the graduates are often, they have a deeper level of expertise and a broader perspective to their roles. So they've gone through this rigorous training and their exams, and they tend to have a stronger grasp of the complex financial concepts.
Mhm. Yeah. Justin, what do you think about that?
Uh, the the main headline items that come to my mind are around, um, uh, an enhanced level of research skills. Uh, the rounded educational piece that, um, uh, that, uh, graduates come out of with a, with a finished skill set, which is, uh, broader and, um, helps them deal with the multitude of, um, business issues that come up day to day.
Um, and just, just thinking that on the ground, is there any discussion at all, um, where people are thinking, oh, I don't know if I do the CA Program, or if I do something else. Or is it clear that to them, um, or or to what you as an employer are saying to your employees? This is the Program to do?
Um, yeah. It's clear to them, uh, in in the outset, it's, um, it's part of the fabric of our of our firm. So, um, uh, there's, um, there's no doubt about that, that, um, their progression is built around, um, uh, passing through the CA Program.
Um, so thinking then, Erinn, for your firm, um, and Justin had touched on some of these already, some of the skills that the graduates bring to your work life. What are some of those?
Uh, absolutely. So, um, in terms of their technical expertise and their ability to work closely with clients, it definitely enhances that. Um, but it also gives them a more rounded knowledge in terms of, um, the breadth of their experience and also, um, their ability to inform us what's going on in the marketplace, what are they learning about in their studies? And they bring back ideas all the time in terms of internal processes or ways we can be doing things better.
So that sounds like it's it's good for the future of your business or the future of your of the firm you work for.
Absolutely. Yeah. We're very future focused. And that growth and enhancement of our employees is very important. And that's what the CA is providing.
Mhm. Justin, anything you'd like to add from that perspective on the sorts of skills that the graduates are bringing into your workplace?
Well, um, it's those that we've just talked about. It's also about um, uh, at that point in their career, it um, teaches graduates, uh, a lot about self organization and time management, um, uh, which are, um, lifelong skills that help people, um, in their professional, um, uh, life and, um, ongoing development. Um, it's also about the, it reinforces to the graduates the emphasis on continuous learning. Uh, so, um, uh, that learning aspect is, is lifelong. It doesn't just stop when, um,
they complete the CA Program. Um, uh, it also, um, it also keeps within the organization, um, uh, a currency of knowledge base, if you like, of, of people coming straight out of the, um, uh, the, the learning curve of the CA Program. Um, and, uh, it leaves them with a broad problem solving capability as well.
Mmh, that sounds very, very valuable, value that goes beyond just having, um, you know, the value that it brings, the candidate itself, the value then extends further into your business. All right. So let's move on. Um, I'm thinking about then, you know, to employers that are listening along right now, uh, who may be on the fence about what offering their employee should do, uh, and might be thinking, gosh, does it really matter? Um, Erinn, what's your thoughts on that? What would you say?
I think absolutely it matters. The choice you make is essential to your business, what kind of staff you're attracting, how your clients feel about your firm, and the CA is seen as the premium choice in terms of furthering your accounting studies. I think it's widely known that when you undertake your CA studies, that you're going to have a really deep technical knowledge. And I think the reputation that that provides is invaluable.
Mhm. Justin, what do you want to add.
Oh I put that question actually to one of our um our, our team members currently in the Program. Um, their response to me was that the, um, uh, those, those people that have been through or um, or in the midst of the CA Program, uh, that um, uh, the,
the standards, um, it delivers, um, graduates with, with high standards, uh. That, um, uh, have that, um, that, uh, imprint in them, if you like, of, um, of the, uh, of the standards required of being a CA, uh, professional standards, continuous development, all those sorts of things in the mix. Um, that that was what, uh, their, their iteration was to me about why we should be putting people through the CA Program.
Mmh, did they talk about any challenges?.
Oh, sure. Um, I guess, uh, there's obviously plenty of challenges. And and if there weren't the, um, the, uh, the reputation of the Program would not be there, would it? Um, but, um, from where I stand, the sorts of challenges I see, um, haven't typically changed over time. Coming from a regional environment, um, uh, there were, um, historical challenges of being having that remoteness,
if you like. But obviously that's overcome with technology these days. Um, and uh, challenges, of course, are just in the pure rigor of the Program itself.
Mhm, mhm. So yes, that's right. The CA Program itself has had an overhaul in recent times that have brought it more into what it is that graduates and students expect from a course. And you're right. Digital access and all that sort of stuff has really made a difference. Been quite a game changer in that aspect. That's a very good point.
Thank you for pointing that out. Erinn, what are you seeing on the ground from where you're at for the challenges that, um, candidates may experience with the CA Program and then the sort of support that's around to help them?
I mean, undertaking the CA studies has always been challenging, um, even with the change in the Program. Um, and I think that the largest, um, challenge for, for the people going through are is the investment of time. So they're balancing their home life, they're balancing work life, and then
they're balancing their studies. Um, so for us, I guess the main thing we've tried to encourage is that the team and this is a benefit, I guess, of being in a mid-tier firm, is that there are a number of staff going through the CA Program at the same time, so we encourage them to get together, to share ideas, to share knowledge, to sort of lean on each other and help them through managing, managing all of those demands on their time.
And I guess as an employer, how much, um, you're aware,so there's understanding. Am I right from what is expected of them as, as an employee while they're going through this Program?
Yeah, absolutely. So they're expected to perform just like any other, um, team member. So they still have their KPIs. They still have, um, the normal turnaround in terms of work. Um, and it is expected that they are studying in their spare time and after work and on the weekend. Um, but we're here to facilitate any way that we can make their life a little bit easier, whether that's helping them through mentoring programs or through providing spaces where they can get together in a study group.
Justin, what sort of, um, that's an interesting point, is there? Do you offer the same sort of, um, guidance or support to to people who do the CA Program through you?
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Um, uh, there's, um, uh, no different to anywhere else. We have people that have either, um, uh, recently graduated or are, uh, part way through or have, um, uh,
graduated some time ago, like myself. So, um, uh, that's all part of the collegiality, I guess, of the, of the CA Program that, um, if you've got people that have, um, all passed through that before and after, then they can share their war stories and, um, and, uh, tool people up with, um, how best to navigate and, um, and pass through the CA Program. So, um, uh, it's all those, um, it's, uh, sure.
It's about those structured groups but it's also about those water cooler conversations as well that are so important.
Mhm, Mhm. No that's a very good point. Look we're out of time and I think that we should wrap up now that we've given quite a good overview on what it is that the CA Program does for your business when your employees go through it. But a final thought, Erinn, kind of bringing everything together.
Yeah, absolutely. So for starters, they're going to get a great sense of pride in what they've accomplished. And and also that they feel like they're giving back to their firm. Um, for us, their technical expertise is greatly enhanced. And and
so is their ability to, to deal with clients. Um, it also means that they're sort of progressing through their accounting career, and they're looking to grow and to move into those more senior roles, which for us is as a business is exactly what we're after
Mhm. Justin, what would you add?
Oh look, uh, in addition to those um, those words, it's along the lines of um, uh, the common themes have been around um, uh, career development etc., but, um, what's marvelous for someone like me to see is, um, to see those see, uh, team members, uh, employees passing through the CA Program, coming back to the workplace and implementing their knowledge, um, because they've been able to, um, in, in the course of the Program, uh, apply their technical
learnings to, um, case studies and scenarios, etc.. Uh, they can bring them back and, um, challenge their colleagues in, in the workplace, on, um, on different items and equally extract, um, a greater level of engagement for themselves in their, in their career. Um, and um, then in the roll up, I guess, um, as we're supporting them, it deepens the engagement that, um, they have with us as an employer and, uh,
in a, in a tight labour market. Well, that only, um, is a good thing if, um, if you can, uh, weld on team members on and retain them over time by providing that that fabric or environment that that helps them keep developing.
I love that. Weld on. And look, the vibe I'm getting there from both of you is that the graduates are work ready, and that it's a vital resource for any Accountant that's looking to make an impact in, you know, their personal experience, but also their work experience. So we've given you a taste today of what it's like to have your employees do the CA Program and how it benefits your business.
Now the CA Program is TEQSA accredited, which means that the educational quality of the CA Program meets the Australian Higher Education Standards. Now, we already know, as we've discussed, that CA Program graduates develop the capabilities they need to be work ready, as well as having the skills for
what your business needs in the future. And what we've heard here today is that CA Program graduates make an impact and that when you support your graduates through the CA Program, you're actually empowering them with the technical skills that both Erinn and Justin have talked about, but also the soft skills to contribute to your company's success both now and down the track. You can find more information about
the CA Program on our website. I will make sure I put a link to that in the show notes and in the other relevant CA Program resources so they're easy to find. That is all we have time for. There's lots of other great episodes from this podcast series that are worth listening to. They're in the app if that's where you're listening right now or they're available on our website, I'll put a link to that as well so it's easy
to find. And if you want to get in touch, email us podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com and follow the pod in your favourite podcast app. Let's start a conversation. Thank you Erinn and Justin for being my guests on the podcast today.
Thanks, Gill. Great to be here.
My pleasure Gill, thanks for having me today.
Bye bye.