Hello, my name is Gillian Bowen, Public Affairs Manager at Chartered Accountants, ANZ. This is Small Firm, Big Impact.
CAAG is, basically groups of senior members located in in New Zealand and also in all the states in in Australia set up to assist and support members if they're having professional or ethical dilemmas.
A lot of it's around client disputes and get into a conflict situation or even conflicts with other members.
We have members that get in touch with us that don't have anybody else that they can bounce an idea off.
It's the podcast giving you and your clients the up to date information you need to do your jobs. Each fortnight I share resources, tools and expert advice provided by CA ANZ and a range of people across our profession. So make sure you're following the pod in your favourite podcast app.
And if you've got an idea for the show email [email protected] Today we have Ross Jackson, FCA, who's the New Zealand chair of the CA Advisory Group, and Merran Brooks, FCA, who's a member of the New South Wales CA Advisory Group. The topic: what is the CA Advisory Group and how it can help you with ethical decisions? Ross and Merran, welcome to Small Firm, Big Impact.
Hey Gill, how are you?
Thanks, Gillian. Welcome and hope you enjoy this podcast.
I'm really looking forward to the chat that we've got planned for today, and I know our members will find it insightful as well. So before we get cracking into that I thought to start, it might be a good idea for you both to give me an overview of your expertise. Ross, why don't you go first? Tell me a bit about yourself.
I'm a partner and have been for 30 years in a mid-size public practice firm in the lower South island of New Zealand, employing around 75 staff, mainly in business advisory. And I've had a long association with Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand. Being chair of the Public Practice Review Board and was national president back in 2011 and also been the NZ CAAG chair since its inception.
Okay, brilliant. All right. Merran, how about you?
Mine's a little bit different, I think. Gill. I started life in a regional city in New South Wales in a big four firm as an auditor, like lots of people did back then. And I spent some time in a second tier, a small practice, and then I had my own micro practice for a short time after I did my CA program, which was called PY back then, I became involved with CA ANZ as a workshop facilitator with the with the old CA program. And what I realised at that point was
that I loved teaching. So from that, from facilitating with CA AN Z, it's led to a lot of my time being spent in education, teaching, post-grad accounting. Through all of that time. I've spent a lot of time on various committees, state council, national council, as it was with CA ANZ, and I've absolutely loved all of my interactions with members and students over over that time.
Okay, brilliant. All right. So we've got a bit of a taste of how we got to where we are today, which is good. Now I want to dive in to the topic, Merran I might stick with you are what is the CA advisory group or as we will call it, as we go through this episode, CAAG.
Basically groups of senior members located in in New Zealand and also in all the states in in Australia set up to assist and support members if they're having professional or ethical dilemmas. So that's it in a nutshell. Members being able to talk to other senior members to get some assistance.
Ross what would you like to add as, as what you see CAAG's role?
Look, agree with Merran and it's very much a mentoring guidance and support for all members, not just public practice right across the board and assisting them with the ethical dilemmas, some counselling in some cases, and even employment issues and a bit of guidance there.
Okay. Well, let's stick with you then on on that Ross, and build on it. You mentioned, you've both mentioned, ethical dilemmas. What does that mean exactly? Ross, ehat are the sorts of issues that CAAG can assist with?
A lot of it's around client disputes and get into a conflict situation or even conflicts with other members releasing files and issues they have regarding their own restraints of trade if they're exiting a practice and also those partners and a lot in small practices that exiting or entering public practice and they come across a range of ethical dilemmas that challenge them and they just need someone to bounce those ideas off and a bit of guidance on the way through.
Merran, what would you like to add to that?
Well, I think that that covers it beautifully. What we see is that we have members that are get in touch with us that don't have anybody else, that they can bounce an idea off, whether it's a conflict they have with one of their other partners or whether they're in a small firm and they have an have an issue with a client and there's nobody that they can share that with. The other sorts of issues that we get involved with, apart from conflicts of interest, which are
make up probably about 80% of what we do. We've had situations where we've had the death of a business owner, whether in practice and, you know, family members looking for assistance with that. We also help out with people who get on the wrong side of the disciplinary process. And they may have had a complaint either justified or unjustified from a client. And the members come to us and look for guidance as to how that process is likely to play out and we can give them some assistance
with navigating that process. The other sorts of things we get is for for members that are in business, particularly when they've just made that adjustment into business away from practice where they're looking for assistance as to the differing roles and responsibilities they might have and things that they might come across in a different environment from practice.
Ross what is, what is a conflict of interest look like? Is it do you think that this is where where there's a lot of help that's needed in regards to how that can present to you at any time of of the day of your working week?
It can, any time. I think conflict is really a gut feel of something doesn't feel right. And you have two parties that wants some advice. You may have a relationship with one or relationship with both, and they can't reach unanimous decision or in a marriage split relationship property. You just need to be really careful that it can't be advising both sides of the deal really.
Mm hmm. And Ross, what is it that CAAG doesn't cover? What are the sorts of things you can't get help from CAAG with?
I think the most important thing is we don't give legal advice and but we can advise or refer to lawyers if it's appropriate. We don't get too involved in technical matters. Again, we'll let you know where you can go to get assistance for that and any non-work related matters. Um, often you get personal and work related intertwined a bit,
but we we steer clear of the non-work related. But the other part I'm particularly careful of is if someone is already in the disciplinary process with Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, that we can give a bit of guidance, but we don't want to give advice in respect to the discipline matters.
So there's a few constraints there for for good reason.
Perfectly happy to give them suggestions and where else they might get assistance.
That's right. So you guys have got those sorts of tools at your fingertips to be able to point people in the right direction. I do like that idea. Merran, what are the types of members who usually use the CAAG service?
Often it's members that are just trying to clarify their own thinking so that they've got they've got a good idea as to the issue that they've got and they've got a good idea as to what the solution is, but they're looking for feedback from somebody else. So it can be partners in firms, it can be younger members in a in a new role that they're unsure about. It can be issues that members haven't dealt with before.
Often what we see are the tricky issues. So it's any member that's got a tricky issue that they really want some help with.
It's a bit of a sense check.
We can we can give them a bit of a a bit of guidance on it.
Okay. So I feel like we've given a bit a good overview, a bit of a sprinkling, as I like to say, of, of, of what CAAG is and how it works. Ross the next question is how do members access it? How do they get involved, does it cost, anything, all those sorts of details.
There's a variety of ways to contact us. Certainly the website is probably the first port of call. I know that we're all listed. I checked that before. And the contact details. Brilliant. Contact the Chartered Accountants directly. The professional support staff will give assistance and then they will contact us with potential members that need some assistance. The local leadership team.
I know that. And also the local regional manager has often a port of call too, so members can get in touch pretty easily and then directed through.
Indeed. And we'll make sure we put the links to all those contacts and where information is about CAAG on the website. So it's easy to find. I'll put that in the show notes in the description of the episode. Before we wrap out of run Out of time Merran I was thinking if I've got an issue right now, is there a long wait? Is it hard? What do I need to do to get it on on CAAG agenda so it can be dealt with swiftly?
All of our things are dealt with. What I consider to be very swiftly, once you've made that contact and most of ours come through our regional manager in the end. Um, once the regional manager has had a chat with the member, usually what our, our people do is they identify the member of CAAG who is most appropriate to help them. So if it's a practice matter, it'll go to a
prac member in practice. If it's a, you know, so they can match up the best fit and if they they get in touch with the CAAG member and then we make touch, we get in touch with the, with the member directly. Usually it's a, it's a 24, 48 hour turnaround.
Oh, brilliant. Okay. And Ross, what about confidentiality?
Look, certainly totally, totally confidential. Uh, the other point, just picking up on Merran there. When we do get cases, we go through a pretty thorough conflict of interest. But we don't know the members. Often in New Zealand we will deal with members out of our region so we don't actually know them. Yeah, you know, it's a pretty small place in New Zealand and one degree of separation, so we need to be. Everyone needs to know it's totally confidential and that there is no conflict.
Yes. That you've done your own checks and balances in your end, too. I do like this extra detail. I'm thinking as well. If there are cans members listening along who think, Oh gosh, have the expertise or experience there, I could be helpful in this in this role. I'm interested in joining the CA advisory group. Merran what is the process to get involved?
I think it's it's mostly just. If you do know anybody that's already on the on CAAG speak to them about what that role involves and then they can they can let you know the process from there. I think I think it's it's a case of we try and keep a broad spread within each group of expertise. So if we're, you know, top heavy in a particular area and that's your area, maybe there'll be a short wait before you can come on to CAAG. But we're certainly
always looking for members that are keen. There's got to be a fit with the with the expertise that we're looking for at the time. But..
That's. Right.
Please, please always get in touch with us. And if we don't necessarily have a role for you on CAAG, I'm sure there are other committees if you've got an interest that you can involved with.
Yes, that's right. Ross, anything you'd like to add?
Yeah, we do the same. We're looking always looking for succession here. We do have a rough skills matrix. What we're looking gender's important to, um, often often find female members do want to ..way more comfortable talking to another female member, and we'll make sure the whole gamut is covered through corporate and public practice and wider.
Brilliant. All right. So we're we're out of time. I'm going to wrap this up. Final thought Merran on on any anything you want to add in regards to CAAG why did you get involved, why it's a good service. Over to you.
Oh, look, I think from a from a personal perspective, from the CAAG group itself, it's a fantastic way of of staying connected with your professional body and being able to assist members, use some of your expertise to assist other members. I think that's what I get out of it. And hopefully the response we get from the members we help is overwhelmingly positive. They just love being able to speak to to somebody else that knows what they're going through.
Ross, anything from you?
You know, look, I enjoy giving some advice and giving members assistance. It's my way of giving back to a profession that's been really good to me over the years too. And if I can help some members, of course, it's all free of charge. We give up our time and there's no cost to the members to.
Gosh, I love it. We've covered a lot. That is all we have time for. If you want to find out more about the CA advisory group and how to use it, as I said, I'll put a link in the show notes with all the information that you need, and I'll also include a link to some recent ethics resources which are also worth a read as well. And have you followed the podcast in your favorite podcast app yet? Do it today. The podcast has an email, so feel free
to get in touch. [email protected] Let's start a conversation. Thank you Merran Brooks and Ross Jackson for being my experts on Small Firm, Big Impact.
Thanks Gill. It's been great.
Thanks and I really hope members get something out of this.
Bye bye.