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welcome to Sloanies talking with Sloanies , a candid conversation with alumni and faculty about the MIT Sloan experience and how it influences what they're doing today. So what does it mean to be a Sloanie over the course of this podcast, you'll hear from guests who are making a difference in their community, including our own very important one here at Sloan . I'm your host, Christopher Riker .
I'm a 2004 graduate of Sloan for the management of technology program. And Carrie , welcome. Thank you very much Christopher. Good to be here. Yeah . Tell us a bit about yourself, where you work and last few years and what program you came from.
So I came from the MBA program out of the class of 2001 and I currently work at an investment firm called Boston partners here in Boston. And I do , uh, our international sales are non US sales, so I travel quite a bit. Um, I've been working with Boston partners for 11 years in a variety of different roles. Uh, but I didn't start out in the investment business after I left.
Uh, after I left MIT Sloan, I actually went to Goldman Sachs and started on their sales and trading desk and doing research sales for awhile before going over into consulting for a while and then coming back into the asset management business.
So that was 2001 you went to New York City and Goldman Sachs.
I actually was here in Boston with Goldman Sachs starting in 2001 and I spent two years on their sales and trading desk here. Interesting . Yeah. And um, what did you before salon , what led you to slow ? Yes . So before Sloan I was at Morgan Stanley doing sales within their insurance area in Morgan Stanley, asset management, doing sales. And after working there for about four years, I decided I wanted to do something a little bit different.
And I had already started the , the CFA or the chartered financial analyst designation program and wanted to get an MBA in addition to that. So I looked at Sloan , I looked at a variety of other places of course, but I had gone to MIT as an Undergrad, so someone was on my list because I was very familiar with it. But I really made a lot of sense for me to come to MIT Sloan because I really felt like it just fit for me at the time.
So you're a , you're a lifelong MIT community member.
Yes. I like to say that only one school asked me for money. Right.
So what did you , what was your undergraduate gray head and did that, does that factor into what you do now?
No, my undergraduate degree is in marketing, so management, science, marketing, and I have a minor in chemistry. Um, so the minor in chemistry comes into my baking, but otherwise does not come into what I do every day. And so yeah, I went into the asset management business after, after Undergrad, but then kind of explored other areas of finance and management consulting before kind of coming back to the selling aspect of the business later.
So in the end you chose Sloan . Where else did you, did you consider?
So I applied to Harvard. I applied to HBS, I applied to Stanford. I got waitlisted at Stanford. I got waitlisted at Harvard and I applied to NYU and basically decided I did not want to be poor in New York City. That did not sound attractive.
Great. CV Richmond . Yeah .
I was already living around New York at the time as well. So it wasn't enough of a change, right . Yeah . Where did you grow up originally? I grew up in southern New Jersey. I like to call that the garden part of the garden state. I grew up amongst a peach orchards and then ground horse country and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's quite beautiful down there, but I was also , uh , one of those people who's like, I need to go out and see the world.
When I was in high school, I went on this French trip with a French class and that kind of got me started and really loving Europe. Uh , but really when I came to Sloan, I went on the trip to China in my first year and that was an amazing experience. Um, not only because you got to spend a lot of time with a group of your classmates and trying to get to know them better, but understanding a lot of things about the world, economies. We met a lot of companies. We got to see a lot of local people.
Um, and it really changed my world in terms of thinking about what's going on beyond the borders of America. And that really led me to getting into consulting as a career later, just really to expand those borders and work elsewhere, work outside of the United States. And now my current role, I focus on all of our business development outside of North America after having lived in Europe for eight years. Sloan was the start of that really. You live in Europe ?
I lived in Paris, London and Rotterdam. Excellent. Do you speak any other language or would you pick up French is my best second language I like to say so I'm pretty good in French. Um, some people say I'm modest about it, but I feel like I'm pretty good and occasionally I'll do meetings in French, but it's so hard. It's like taking an exam every time you do so.
So how did you find living over there as opposed to visiting? You're there for eight years. Yes .
Yeah, I was in Europe for eight years. The lifestyle is different, the pace feels a little different. But there is, there's a lot of very interesting smart people trying to do a lot of cool things in the world over there. And actually when I was over in Paris, I got involved with the MIT Club of France that did a lot of events around Paris and it's amazing to hear about the entrepreneurship and just what people are dabbling in in addition to their regular jobs there, which was also fascinating.
But from a cultural standpoint, no one said anything when you said, I'm going off for two weeks on holiday and you know, I'm taking off for three weeks to spend time in the states. No one even batted an eye about it. So it just has a different feeling. And the, the main thing that I noticed when I came back was that our portions are so big. It's really hard.
It's no , I lived overseas in Australia for 14 years. This , I noticed the same thing. And at first you resisted it said I'm going to leave half of that behind. But it's , it's harder and harder and harder to hit that that a Starbucks venti seems normal. Right. Exactly.
Exactly. And actually that was one of the, you know, kind of funny things. After spending so many years abroad, you come back and people say, well, what do you think is really different? Yeah, okay. Uh, the, the pace or whatever about your work environment is different. But what I noticed most was the food sizes. Like the portion sizes are so much bigger and the coffee was the man I go to.
If you went to Starbucks in London or Paris, it's not, doesn't seem like the same size as you come here to them twice the price, but price the price . But definitely a different size. So have you been back to Asia since ? Since ? So there was a two thousand two thousand ago when I first went to China. It was 2000 the beginning of 2000 and the second time I went to China and in that trip we went to Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong. And the second time I went to China was 2009 so nine years later.
And the difference, I was really excited cause I found my picture book of that trip, the in 2000 because we actually had like regular pictures and you know, like a digital um , archive. And I had kept a travel journal, which I almost never do anymore, but I kept this travel journal and I remember thinking about how many bikes there were and how many people there were. And now there's a lot of people, but there's a lot more traffic that's cars instead of bikes and boat peds and things.
And it was pretty fascinating when I went back in 2009 and I was back in Hong Kong last or earlier this year briefly. And it's an ever changing city that just keeps growing up and I bike up. I mean getting taller. Yes. So how did your time at Sloan change you? How do you, what do you think before and after?
I think my time at Sloane changed me because it did open my eyes up to the global nature of humanity, which I appreciate it, but also the idea of working with people and embracing the idea of working with people that have different skill sets than you have. And when I say different skill sets that make me, they worked in different places. Some of them worked in investment banks , some of them worked for non government organizations and different areas and aspects of government.
It really does bring a different perspective than when you kind of sit in an investment bank and you're only listening to people who have almost entirely the same background. So it really opened up my eyes to the benefit of having those multiple voices in the room. And the other thing about it is it gave me a new group of people that were like-minded in that they, you know , wanted to do interesting things with their careers after or with their lives after.
And that may or may not have to do with their work career, but it may have to do with some other side interests that are more nonprofit or philanthropic and so that experience really changed my perspective a lot. You keep in touch with many of your classmates? I keep in touch with a lot of my classmates.
I right now have a what's app group of classmates that are running the New York City half marathon in March and we are constantly jetting and encouraging each other about getting those long runs in every weekend and what workouts are we doing? You're doing it as well? I'm coaching this year because I actually have a problem with my foot that I need to get surgery on, but I've done it with other slow days. Other years we've done some other running races.
Every time I would travel when I lived in Europe and would travel all over to Asia and things, I would see classmates all the time. Everywhere I would see them in Hong Kong, I'd see them in the Middle East. I see them all over Europe.
I mean I, I'm in touch with a lot of slow needs that it really does make, it makes my travel life a lot easier and a lot nicer when you can go to Hong Kong and have dinner with a friend that you haven't seen in a couple of years because you get the benefit of having them, you know, where I'm traveling. So did the , uh , where's your class where international, if you think about where many of them are? Yes. I feel like our class was pretty international. Maybe.
I don't know what the percentage is, but it's probably 40, around 40 or plus percent and you just get to know a lot of people. So spending time in Europe, the entire contingent that there was a group of people who went to London, so you get to reconnect with them as well. So yeah, I spent a lot of time kind of meeting up with Sloanies all over the world. Was there a professor that you think back that made a big impact on you or a class or even a study group for that matter?
A class that had a big impact on me was the organizational behavior class with Professor John Van Mannon what a funny guy. And he always had these great stories because he would insert himself into whatever company he was trying to understand and get to know the organization about. So he's worked at at and t and he has worked at, you know, all these big companies or all these big organizations, government organizations to to really understand it.
And he had great stories that you really would say, oh, I , I can understand what the issue is there and I can understand why we're trying to, you know, what we can do to try to get around it or, or work through it. So , um , organizational behavior with John Van Bannon was, was really quite memorable for me and vote , the late professor Thoreau was one of my professors as well. And , uh , he would say some things, it's like, what's the probability of that happening? Precisely.
Zero, you know, it did make it take a whole new take on economics for me. Interesting . Uh , if you could have a do over and Sloan, what do you think that , what do you think? Oh, hands down. Easily easy, easy question. I would have done whatever the g lab equivalent is now. Entrepreneurship lab was, you know, maybe a couple years old when , uh, when I was in my time at Sloan and friends were doing it, but I didn't do it and I really wish I had taken the opportunity to go on a g lab experience.
Yeah, I would agree. I think G-lab was , was I was in 2003, 2004 and it seemed so I had just come back from, from Australia. So I didn't like, I wanted to go back over there but great . That's one of those ones. I think that really was, I did the Ilab , which was driving up to Wayland or somewhere like that and consulting with that accompany , but not the same friends of mine did the G lab.
Um , I worked with a company down in Costa Rica and just listening to them and talking to them, that's an amazing experience to work with a company and really understand their issues. And dive into it on in a very tangible hands on way that will change how that company behaves going forward. Having that experience. I wish I had done it. I did you, did you live overseas? In Europe? After Sloan or after Sloan. Right.
So that's all just so how did your Sloan degree get you then your next opportunity or did it well , what was the kind of the next steps after? Well in your second year as you're kind of , as you and your classmates are looking for your next opportunity. I was pretty traditional and looking for my next opportunity after Sloan. So I had worked at Morgan Stanley in the asset management side doing sales. I think that was an internship you made or was that prior? Prior to, so my internship was
also at Morgan Stanley, but in the investment division, looking at stocks on the, for the global , uh , for the growth equity team and I could make models and you know, read the reports and put things together. But I also realized it did not have the touch for investing. You know, I do not have the touch to look at the numbers, read the tea leaves and say you should buy that stock. And so that one, and I wasn't really happy being in the cubicle, so I really prefer to be out talking to people.
So I knew that being an analyst and portfolio manager was not in the cards for me. Right. Um , so I was glad I had that summer experience so that I knew I wasn't trying to pursue that as a real career. So when I left Sloan , I had opportunities to go to Goldman Sachs, which is where I went on the sales , uh, equity sales desk to go to the monitor group and consulting, go back to Morgan Stanley in a different sales , um , related role.
And then a couple of other places I'm in, in the end I went to, went to Goldman, spent a couple of years on the sales desk and then I left Goldman and I spent a year working at Wellington, also in business development. By then I already had the bug of I want to experience working overseas. And once I had that bug in my ear from my time at Sloane , from my friends with g lab, from all of these little experiences kind of piling together.
You know, I went to a couple of friend's weddings overseas, just all kinds of things piling together. I actually went back to the monitor group and said, hey, you guys gave me an offer two or three years ago. What do you think about hiring me now? And , um , thankfully the person who was director of human capital then knew the CEO , uh, that I was working for at the time and said, okay, that sounds like a great idea.
If you don't have to interview again, you just have to chat with some people and make sure this is a choice you want to make. I couldn't believe they said, by the way, sound that easy all the time. Oh , I know . And it wasn't pretty incredible because once I joined the monitor group, within a couple of months, I was telling anybody who would listen. I really wanted an assignment overseas. I really wanted an assignment overseas. I'd love to go to Europe.
I'd love to go to Paris and within a couple of months I was being sent over to Paris to work on a a client project that I, same client I had worked with , um , here in the states and that really opened the door. I was supposed to go over there for a four month project. It ended up being over nine month project. I spent a year in Paris, I moved to London. They asked me to move to London. I spent a year over in London and then I found a job with the current company I work for.
And I was in based in Rotterdam, off and on, kind of between Rotterdam and Paris for six years. I would have never even thought about that. But had I not teed up that opportunity with monitor group before leaving Sloan . So it was, it's really, I talk about slow and change my life. It's not just the friends that I have, which , which are phenomenal, but it's also having exposure to these opportunities that I would not have seen otherwise.
Do you think that as you left Sloan, so as a woman at a woman of color working in the states and overseas, did you see any difference in the evolution of, of at the time how people have your work progressed or how people treated you then , uh, in the states and overseas and now?
Yeah, it's very interesting. I was very fortunate in that most of the time I spent abroad , I was working with, you know, a variety of very intelligent but very diverse group of people. And one of the bosses that I had really promoted the idea of, you know, making sure that as a woman and as a woman of color, you , you got the skills you needed like, and helping you get there. So, you know, we'd say it's not just mentorship, it's sponsorship. And he was really a great sponsor for me.
He happened to be based in Europe, but he had lived in the states for a very long time. He was technically European, but it really, that helped me a lot. I didn't realize the benefit that that could be a unique experience rather than the norm. Because once I came back to the states, it's harder to find that kind of sponsorship that really helps you move your career.
The time out right after Sloan is is kind of open season for everybody, but it feels like later, you know, 10 plus years after that is where you really need to make sure you have that kind of sponsorship and it's , it's, I find it's hard to find any way it feels like it's harder to find right now.
Do you go back to your , that sponsor overseas as a, as a, as a kind of a reference point?
Yes. It's a reference point. It's a set and he's a sounding board. I, I like to, I like to think of him as one of the people on my personal advisory council and a , and I keep in touch with him before for that reason. So that does make, I feel like it makes a difference. But when you're leaving Sloan, it feels like there's a lot more of a level a levelness because there's a lot of people who don't know what they're doing coming into these associate tracks.
But it's harder to be seen in a positive way. It's harder to be noticed in a positive way.
And , and when you said hard to be noticed in what context?
So within the context of say, being in this big analyst pool or the big associate pool, it's harder to be seen in a positive way and harder to be noticed in a positive way. If you're doing really good work and they are not talking about it enough, then it phase into the background of, well, this group did really good work. If you're really doing good work and you're talking about it a lot, it's, you know, why are you being so boastful about it?
Um, if you were struggling with something and you're asking for help, it's while they don't know what they're doing , um, so you're kind of beat up on a little bit on all sides. And , and that can be just challenging.
And how do you, how have you navigated that? How have you changed the way you've approached it? Like you've walked into some things, you've backed out.
I've walked into a few things and backed out and tried it again. Um, I try to always put forward my best effort, my best work. Quite frankly, I'm not shy about asking for help because I feel like that is something that, you know, so a lot of us will suffer in silence or think the work speaks for itself. It doesn't, the work does not speak for itself.
We need to really, I make a point of trying to advocate for things that I've done well and asking for help in areas where it's not going well and finding people that compliment my skill set . So I find that those things have helped me kind of navigate a little bit better than before. But there's still a lot of, there's still a lot of unconscious bias in , in a lot of things. And that's something we just, you know, we need to talk about so we can get, get through.
Yeah. I mean I've known you for what bout two years now I guess. And uh , my oppression is that you, you exude confidence and you kind of enter a room and people notice it was ever a time when you were shy and retiring and had to, is that as , have you always been that way or is that something that you as you , as you've grown and matured personally and professionally that you now it's just part of how you are?
It's interesting. It is something I have been able to tap into when I know what I'm doing, but I can't walk into a room like that when I'm , when I don't know what I'm doing. And I'll give you a fine example of it. I belonged to this cycling group and we do indoor time trial type workouts that are really quite challenging. Um, and they do this hill climb class on Saturdays.
And I've been really intimidated about going there because people talk about how intense it is and the people in there really intense. And I'm, I'm quite frankly a little bit of afraid of going in there. And I went in there for the first time a couple of weeks ago and I was quiet as a church mouse. I was like, excuse me, what are you , what do I do this ? And then I go over to the instructor and I say very quietly while I'm new here, you know, like I've never been .
And she's like, okay, yeah , no problem. I'll allow , let me set you up next to these people who seem very, but honestly I walked in that room. Like I, I know I, we're just observing. I was observing, I was trying to melt into the background. Um, but that was, you know, the first time I went and then the second time I went and it was, it was a lot different. But
the carry that that I know who came,
it comes out no that , yeah, exactly.
So do you, in your career, do you mentor, do you provide that, that sort of sponsorship role you talked about that helped you? Is that something that you make a conscious effort to, to seek out?
Yeah , I do. Um, cause I think if we don't develop the, you know, newer generations, then it's a disservice to ourselves and it's a disservice to the company over time. Um, so I do try to mentor and sponsor different people and you know, I don't do that just at my organization but there's a couple of people at different organizations where, you know, I've met them at different events and different things and you know, I'm on their advisory board, personal advisory board.
Right, right. So tell me what makes, what makes Kerry James Tick ? What kind of gets you motivated for the, you know, if you think about what the purpose of of your work is or your life, your personal life or your hobbies and interests.
I like challenges. I like things that are a little bit messy. A, you're trying to understand it. I like things that are kind of changing all the time. So part of the reason I like doing work within the investment business is that the markets are changing all the time and there's always a different story to tell. And I like to work with clients because, and international clients or non US-based clients, because the way you communicate and what's important to each one of them is different.
So it is entertaining and interesting to think about how do I want to position this so that it resonates with this audience. It tells our story, but it resonates with the audience. I find that to be very fun. Yeah . And that's entertaining and fun to me. Um, and then when I say I like challenges, this is why we're doing this whole running thing for the New York half marathon or , uh , I've, I've done several triathlons. It's, it's a , it's an internal challenge and that really does make me tick.
You know, I'm not talking about trying to beat other, beat other people necessarily, but I do like to challenge myself to be as good as I possibly can be.
Yeah . Great. So thinking about your degree from Sloan, the NBA , do you, how relevant is it for you today? Now? What do you eat ? 17 years old, I guess, 17 years at that point.
Yeah. No, that's okay. Um, so yeah, I'm 17 years out. Uh, I think more of the softer skills have stayed more relevant for me. So the way I work with people being exposed to and understanding different cultures, some of those things are more relevant to me. I still remember things about financial analysis and economics of course. And that does come into play because I work in the investment business.
Um, but uh, you know, I'm not necessarily running a statistics program right now or , or an option theory, you know , or option theory right now. Not doing that either. But things around economics , um , things around negotiation be fair because you know, we're always pricing different things and , and kind of negotiating on different elements. So those have all been, you know, stayed relevant for me.
But the most important thing that I've gained from my Sloan experience that I take with me every day are the people.
Hmm . Then what's a , what compelled you to get involved with this known alumni board?
So I thought it would be a fun opportunity to get to know people from a diff , from different vintages or feel from different years and different programs and a great way to reconnect with Sloan and understand what's going on at the school and try to lend a hand to making the school the best it can possibly be.
Are you involved in other club activities?
Oh , outside of school. So outside of going to events and things like that? No, I've done events with the MIT Club of Boston, the Sloan Cup of Austin , those kinds of things. But it's more ad hoc, let's say.
So what's your definition of success? And if you had to have, you had to tell someone who's coming into Sloan to say, okay, we know you're ambitious, clearly. Um, and how , how, how do you define success for yourself?
If I define success for myself, it's, it's really having the flexibility and the resources to do things that I enjoy. I don't say I work to live, but I live to work, you know, like I enjoy what I do for work, but it really helps, helps fund my enjoyment of life. So success for me is having the, is is having that flexibility and resources to do things that I enjoy and I really enjoy traveling and seeing the world.
So having a position where I can go different places every month is fantastic, but also having the resources to be able to stay longer if I want to or go on vacation to some other magical place.
Your on your , uh, your list of places that do you gotta to travel to?
I'm going to the Grenadine islands in about three days, so I shall escape the cold [inaudible] I shall escape the cold for the holiday. Um , and then after that I've really wanted to go to Bali and I've now talked to somebody where I think that's going to happen sooner rather than later. I hear it's a magical place. Um, but I've gone to Oman for example, which is not normally on people's lists , but it's such a beautiful country and, and so lovely in terms of the people are just so lovely.
And I've gone to um, a lot of places in Latin America and across Europe and across Asia. So I'm always looking for the next thing. And the next thing for me right now is Bali.
That's great. Yeah, I was there I guess in 2000 it's amazing.
Oh yeah. Well it's not too far from once you're in Australia. Yeah, everything's fine. Everything is
eight hours away. Everything's eight hours away. So what's, what's next for you while you are you , you've been at Boston partners 11 years, 11 years and you're happy there?
Yes, a I have a great position and I have a lot of fun doing it. Things I'm getting involved in now is more on the angel investing side. So trying to see what's going on related a lot of related to MIT, broadly, companies that are getting started and you know, business on enterprises that are just kind of in early or very early stage development. So I've been looking around in that space as a, as a side project to my day job, let's say. And then we'll kind of see what happens from there.
So what , what angle do you take with those? The startup ?
So a lot of , uh , besides investing in them as more of an angel investor, I've done a lot of work around marketing and sales and business development. So I'm usually the one that's asking, well , how are you really going to grow this from, you know, 10 units to 10,000 units to 10 million units and have you get introduced to them? What's your, it's a lot of legwork to be fair , right? You're going to different mass challenge type of thing.
You go to mass challenge, you go to the a hundred k pitch competitions you go to, there's an MIT angels alumni, angels club. You'd go to a lot of different events and just kind of listen in and see what's going on.
And is there, is there an area that you find more interesting than others? Like some people will in healthcare , some people in bio, you know, is it,
I'm fascinated by fintech because I do think the , the face of the financial services industry is gonna change a lot. Yeah. For a variety of different reasons around yeah . Indexing and lower fees and the fact that, you know, millennials and younger generations are not as interested in investing and kind of thinking about their retirement in the same way. So I think a lot of things are going to change there and I think Fintech is part of it. So , um , I'm interested there.
Uh, but I do like consumer related items because I think it's fun cause I like to look at the consumer related companies too .
What do you, what are you, what's your opinion of crypto technologies? Cryptocurrencies?
I don't know enough about it but I've been hearing a lot about it from a variety of different people that I, that I know well. So I actually had been looking on the MIT Sloan lecture kind of website, trying to understand what are , what are things they're offering around crypto technologies? Cause I don't know enough about it.
Yeah. And how about blockchain ? Does that factor into some of the
blockchain is great technology and they're using it for a variety of different applications and there's a lot of good investment investment opportunities around blockchain. Again, I don't know 100% enough about it, but it's, it's being used a lot more than you think it is,
right? Yeah. No , it seems like every time I learned about it it's like, wow, this really is essential. Right. Some of the trust issues that we have right now and uh , our social media side of things, right. As we are learn more and more. What was the last thing you geeked out about being, being slum , being an MIT, you have six years of history to draw on .
What's the last thing I geeked out about? I'm on the alumni board and when we start getting into data around the , you know, the people and how, how are these numbers working out in terms of programs and who goes to what and what can you say about whether they're taking part in these activities. That means that they will either be more involved in Sloan or feel more involved in Sloan.
When we started digging into the numbers a couple of years ago about the alumni and what they're interested in in what and what is getting them to be engaged in Sloan, I got pretty geeked out about what some of those things are. It's like, well I think the decision path is more like this than like that, you know? Right . And that was pretty, that was pretty good fun. But I'm more likely right now to be geeked out about how do I improve my suviet egg recipe.
Alright . So we've covered a lot of ground. Um, do you have any parting advice for prospective Sloanies or for anyone out there who's listening to this?
So I'd say my parting advice for perspective Sloanies is , um, it can be a challenging environment, but it's really a lot of fun. So don't feel like you need to have been a math major or an engineering major or a former consultant or former investment banker to really come to Sloan and enjoy it and enjoy the experience because it's, it's fun having a lot of different voices in the room.
So I encourage anybody who's looking at slow to just apply there and see and see what it's like and come visit and visit the Sloan on the roads and get to know some of the people. Every time I go to one of the Sloan on the road events, I enjoy talking to the current students too and like hearing about what the prospective students are thinking about and what they're considering because it reenergizes my belief that I chose the right school. Great.
And then of course, if there are any second years of Sloanies sitting there that already have jobs second year, second semester, grades don't matter. Unless you're going to get a Ph d right then buckle down and pay attention, have some fun in the second year. It's not a lot of , you're not going to have another opportunity to be arrest surrounded by a lot of great people and learn some interesting things and have a lot of great life experiences.
That's great. And I would say if you, if once you graduate, stay involved with Sloan because then you get to have conversations like this with uh, today with Carrie James . Thanks for much .
Thank you very much Christopher.
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