Oh, please be advised, this story contains adult content and graphic language. That woman changed his world out He's an adult and went along with it. But that world changed from when they drove off in that truck. That Dan I would hear again from after that was not the same day, and I knew. Welcome to Sleuth, I'm Linda Sawyer. On this episode, we welcome ordained Minister Daniel hulk Yard, who tells us he's a longtime adviser to Daniel Wozniak.
For many years, Daniel Wozniak work for Daniel Hulkyard's appraisal business so daniwasnia could make enough money to date Emily hulk Yard, the pastor's stepdaughter. Daniel Halkyard recounts to Sleuth many fond memories of his time when he directed Dan Wasniak as the lead in many local community theater musicals during his youth. To this day, Daniel Hulkyard refers to
Daniel Waznik as his beloved son he shares with us. However, the one lasting painful memory he witnessed as Daniel Wasniak loaded his truck with furniture the hulk Yards had just donated to Daniel and his new girlfriend Rachel Buffett. As Daniel Hulkyard tells us, he watched as the boy he came to love as his son jumped in his truck heading off for his new life, a life Daniel Wozniak was about to share with his future fiance Rachel Buffett by his side. And we'd like to welcome you now,
Daniel Holkyard. It's Linda Sawyer from Sleuth. How are you. I'm doing very well, Thank you, and we're so happy to have you and we look forward to your insights on this case. We know that you at some point had a pretty close relationship with Daniel Wozniak, and as well you got to know Rachel Buffett and her mother Mary Anne, so right from the beginning, How did you first meet Daniel Wozniak. I met Dan It was early
two thousand three, two three. I was directing for a company called a Children's Theater, Orange County and Daniel audition and he was very, very likable, very I just was very impressed with him watching him perform, and I was watching his people skills and I really enjoyed head and over the time he worked on the show and he played Von Captain von Trapp, and everybody loved him and just the kids adored him, and he seemed to have a gentle persona about him, and uh so I invited
him become the work for me and my appraisal company would shoot photography, shoot pictures of houses and things like that for me. And the needest handwriting. The need is work very thorough and very easy going. Love humor, and uh that's how I teach us with humor. So we got along very well, and that's how we began, you know, That's how we begin our relationship. And were was he involved also in your family life? Because it is my understanding that Emily, your stepdaughter, also had a lot of
experience with him and had a friendship with him. They had a friendship with him. And I don't talk much about the family because I kind of keep that personal. That's yet, but I can tell you that much everybody knew that they dated. And I guess I'm just referring to that because obviously you thought well of him enough so that if he was in your stepdaughter's life, it was something that you approved of. The Daniel I knew exactly had it been the Daniel that we would later
become No, No, there would be no way. Of course, of course, so during that time before the murders took place, you didn't see any indication of someone that was capable of what we now know he did. No when you look at the contrast from night and day. You know, I've seen professional experts say, well you should see scientists, so well, let's find you're the expert. But I was with him constantly on day to day basis, and I honestly, in my heart, it's my opinion that that he was fine.
I don't think this darkness took over until he left us. And as we talk, I'll tell you how that took place. But that darkness wasn't there. I'm like I said, I can only give you my opinion. But I was in a constant relationship day to day to day to day for those years, and I didn't see it. Now. I knew later on, right near the end of it, what we would say goodbye because he because he moved um
me and Rachel. I found out later that the drinking had gotten you know, he was known to the social rank and get crazy, they go out in karaoke, and I was fine with that. But he always told me. However, to your daughter home, I said, you've been or not? So at one point excuse me them and just explained to listeners. At one point he did stay in your home and then left and went and got his own apartment.
Is that what you're saying? Okay, yes, absolutely, And did he live with did he live with Emily or did he just live on his own? No? No, no, no, he really didn't live. He would come and spend big life, might spend the only couch or someone happened. No, he never that would never be allowed the house. He never lived with us, but he was. You would think he was a permanent fixture because it was constantly there because
either in the theater or the appraisal business. But you cared enough about him where he was working in your professional and a professional capacity for you, not just in the musical theater end of his life, but also you let him stay when he when it was convenient for him, and you gave him a whole lot of furniture. Right, that's what your wife told me when when he finally did move out on his own. Yeah, well he decided to move on on his own. Um we we we
we He said, hey, we're getting ready to move. We got a whole bunch of furniture. So they arrived when that month there was a Sunday or Saturday. But they arrived and she was sleeping in the cab of the truck. So I said, where's where's your better half? That's how we talked. He said, she's sleeping. Who are you referring to that? We're referring to Rachel Buffett. So at this point he is involved with Rachel Buffett. Right. I didn't
know much about it. He had told we had met a young lady and he was trying weins me being a minister. I'm a a minister with the National Association of Christian Ministers, and he would ask me about my faith and his his faith and Catholicism. He said, well, I don't know how to talk to her because she has you know, more of It's not it's more of a non Catholicism of faith, he said. And so I just told him, you know, basically, how we talked about it.
So he would have conversations about that, and from that I derived that he was getting this relationship with this girl. And I didn't know much about her. But Emily would tell me that he was seeing someone else, and I said, okay, I guess they were done with their relationship, so he was seeing someone else. And so I didn't really hear much from Dan after over a couple of weeks, and then all of a sudden, they said, we need for address, and I got it for you. Come on by, and
that's how we got to that point. So that's how I knew a little bit about Rachel Buffett. And when can you describe for us the first encounter that, the first significant encounter you had with her, and what were your feelings after meeting her hungover? I'm just I'm just gonna be honest with you. I just I didn't draw conclusions. But she was. She didn't even when they arrived, she didn't come up to say hi. She waves till the truck was loaded and then came out and was sleepy eyed.
Had looked like she taught her just giving you my first impression, my opinion, to look like she had tiedling on and I kind of went. She didn't say much and said thanks. I got back in the car and they took off, and when she was there, Dan was kind of Dan was really black. I've never seen before. He was kind of attentive to her. She moved. One way that his gregariousness with us was he got around my wife. They just they was just like mother's son.
They had a great relationship. But when she came in for that first time, I got kind of quiet, kind of reserves, and I couldn't draw any conclusions at that time. I was just happy to help Dan out. We loaded the truck, she ne Gooby got in the truck, and they left. So the only real shift you saw in Daniel's personality was that in this particular case, with this particular woman, he was very attentive and very cognizant of
her needs and wants. Yeah, And the reason I say that is we in the theater world, as I say, have context. You're saying something bad about somebody in Orange County, and you may fly out and see a play in New York and of our personal company going, I heard you said this about somebody. I said, this is how close?
And that this is I heard for the next seple of years that it was dark because we didn't hear from Dan and friends that we knew in the theater that he knew and my daughter knew, said you can't go there anymore, And I said why, and I said, he says, it's dark. They're hanging around, people with drugs. They're hanging around, and I'm just hearing this is what's being said to me. And I said, I was wondering why I haven't heard from him, and he goes, oh, yeah,
it's whatever darkness those two have gotten into. It's just not nice. And slowly the friends started to fade away. I didn't get much involved because my daughter wasn't involved, but we had had such a bond that I said, I really want to know what happened to him, and so give you an idea. For the next couple of years, I just kind of watched. I didn't get to see much, but it would drift back in conversations, either in Facebook, email, phone calls. People would slowly start to say there was
a darkness forming over there. What that meant, I don't know, but they said the friends they hung out were rough, they were into heavy drugs, and that was it. Now again I could be here safe. So based on the fact that the theater community in Orange County is a tight community, you're saying there were sort of eyes and ears that were sharing with you things that they learned
or new or saw first hand exactly. And the reason I tell you this is because they got back to me because they said, this is not the Dan you knew. We don't know where this came from, because this it totally took them by surprise. They knew he liked to drink and have a good time, but this darkness that sent in the fact that he was desperate and needed money.
Good Heavens, Dan was never at that point in his life, but it just I don't know how the shift came, but I know this, This is my opinion based upon what I physically saw and heard. That woman changed his world. Now he's an adult and went along with it. But that world changed from when they drove off in that truck. The Dan I would hear again from after that was
not the same day. And I knew. I understand from some close friends of his that Daniel never really felt that he, for lack of a better word, deserved Rachel. He always felt he loved her, and the love was, from what I am being told, very much a one sided love. Do you think that there is self esteem issues here that perhaps he felt he had to please her in any way possible and would be willing to
do whatever it took to please her. In my opinion, absolutely, people are afraid afraid to say that, but I'm not. I knew Dan very well. And when the Orange County papers started reporting, well, you know this is this is the psychopath and this is this isn't that he never could have been that good, I said, Malogny. I said, you've sheltered this woman for too many years. How I said, this woman changed that man's life. Now again, he's an adult, he can make the decision, but that she was. So
I had to get permission to go see Dan. And we'll talk about that in them when you couldn't do anything because I would talk to Dan's mom, Maryanne, and she would tell me, oh, you gotta talk with Rachel because you know, there's just you can't see Dan west Rachel. And MAT's when I found out Rachel was the leader in that group. And you stopped your sentence there, you said, mary Anne, who's Daniel wasnia ext mother for our listeners. Mary Anne said you had to go through Rachel Y. Yeah,
I wanted to visit him. And this was the about the second week in June. So of two thousand ten, and I said I want to visit, and she was, well, you have to talk to Rachel. I said, Rachel, Oh, Rachel love it. Yeah, I said, why do I got to go through her bees? She was the fiance Danny that she called me Danny, and she goes, she's a fiance. You have to talk to her. And there was a
tone in Marianne's voice that was hurt. And I'm not a psychologist, but she we would have conversations and she just Marianne always tried to put it that was her, that was her boy, and she didn't like the fact that she didn't even have You got the feeling that this woman what she said as goes and Dan will do it, and Dan will take anyone else out that doesn't listen. That's the Dan. I would say, is it your belief, Dan, that Marianne Wazniak feels the same way
about Rachel that you do. We went up because he had an aunt. He had an aunt that was just a hysterical. Dan had an aunt that was wonderful, really close to the family, and they would all get together and we'd go see plays that Dan was in or that I was in, or that I would be directing that Dan was in and that's how close everything was. You could see how close he was to his mother. He was close to her, close to his father. I mean that ended to me, That kind of ended when
she came in because she became the focus. So you're saying, once Rachel came into Daniel's life, he distanced himself from his family, and he had at one point he was very close to that family that you're saying. Mary Anne and Darryl used to attend all of Dan's musicals. Mhm, mhm. Right the minute he got into that truck with Rachel Buffett and they left our house with our furniture. The Dan that I knew, who enjoyed life, who enjoyed his family,
who loved everything. That just vanished part of my language. But who in the heck is this? So the next time you saw Daniel was nick when he was sitting in Orange County Jail in an orange jumpsuit. Nope, I would see Daniel about. I was doing a play in Long Beach at a at a melodrama club and Dan I was doing a children's show there. And as I was doing the children's show, someone said, uh, oh yeah, we've got an adult program here in the evening, and
you must know one of them, Daniel was nick. I said, I'll be a son of a gun. He's in the show. He's doing the show to go. Yeah, he does the nice stuff. We did the daytime stuff and uh, I said great. But they said, but he doesn't like you. And I said, excuse me, They said, he doesn't like you. He said, you'll take over everything, and you can. You'll be controlling and this and this and that and this is the produce. So I said, are you sure you've
got the right Dan wasn't. He goes yeah. But then I saw Dan in the parking lot several days later, go hey, Dann, what's going on? And hey, it's good to see it. Yeah, okay, I gotta go by, And I said, I told my wife when I got home,
I don't know what's going on here. But then I just let it go because it was too hurtful, and I just said, I I gotta let that go because I remember at that time, I now was hearing that Dan was changing, things were going on, is getting dark, and it seemed very disconnected to me when I saw him. Then the next time I would see him would be in the orange jumpsuit at the men's County jail. So that was just a precursor that things were shifting for Daniel,
and he barely gave you the time of day. Well, the play that he did, the last play that he was in with Rachel. Dan never would have done something like that. That was one of the darkest plays I've ever seen, And it's looking at his persona in that production, I went, he would never pick something like that. He's a good, very talented actor, but that that wouldn't have been his style. He wouldn't have done that. But it
was certainly foreboding for his future, wasn't it. You know, people grow up and they do different things and they get they find different interests. But of all the plays he would do since he's been gone, he come back to that one. It's just I don't know, just I can only base all these observations on my relationship with him. Perhaps it's more indication of her influence over him. Well, the fact that it was going on during that play, I would think. So that's that was the epitome of
what I felt. I think when I saw the play they were in and the characters who were playing, and that this thing, this tragedy happened during this I said, don't tell me you don't know anything about what's going on, because that I'm not buying because of Rachel. I know, and the day, and I know there's no way you know, you're getting to something that's getting really tender with me. But I think there's a there's a lot hasn't been discovered yet. I hope it does. Well. Let's talk about that.
Because this trial takes place and she is charged, as we know, with three felony accounts of accessory after the fact, if she's convicted, the maximum time she'll she'll spend in prison is three years. In my opinion, it's a shame. Three years would never be close to enough justice for the families based upon what I believe her complicity was. Let's talk about what you believe her complicity was. Give us. I went to see Daniel. I went to see Daniel of the third week in June. Rachel and her mom,
Maryanne met me there. We sat and we talked for a while. And first, first of all, I was upset that I had to go through her to get to see my friend, but that I got over asked. Rachel was very You never would have known. I'm telling you my first impressions. You never would have known something as horrific has just happened three weeks Pater that had happened. I was. I was kind of taken back by that at first. Blush. We got to talking and back and
forth with free Mom. I had the opinion Mom didn't get the whole picture from Rachel because the conversation didn't make sense. She kept saying that, well, I had no idea this was coming. Yeah, and we just had no ideas this is going on. And I said to myself, I don't think so. But then she said something that this is very very important. You need to hear this.
When I saw her on Dr Phil go through that whole RANDMA with Dr Phil, Rachel said something to me in front of her mother that I actually emailed her mother back that night and gave her a warning. Rachel told me and no certain terms. You know, the night that that lady was killed, I was on an email to her and I felt so suspicious and scared because Daniel was standing right behind me, and I about dropped my job and I said, you what, Yeah, that was so spooky I looked at her mom, and her mom
just clambed up real quick. We went to the the talking process, and then I went to see Daniel and we got our eye signals like I'll be back you and I will talk. And when I got home, I I write on that email, I said, mary Anne, and I still have that email. I said, Maryanne, you need to be very cautious of something. Your daughter said something that gives me pause, and I think you need to talk about it with her. And I related to what I had heard. Never talked to her mother after that.
Maybe a couple of congenial hides, but they just stopped the communications. They get back and that's when I told my wife. I said, there's more to this story than than me. C I I just I can't it doesn't add up to me. And I said, I'm not the police here, but that broke my heart. I was convinced now after that conversation, that this general lady was going to get away with literally murder, and there wasn't much I could do. I mean, and Dan won't give her up.
For some reason. Dan is not letting that go. And I and I told Daniel, I looked him right in the eye as a minister and his been. I said, you owe this to God and you owe this to those families. You need to come clean. I can't make you so I know, I said, don't be yes me, Daniel. God knows what happened that night, and he knows who was involved. You say you're you say you're saved, you're born again, but you just need to do what's right.
And you know we've that's where we left it. But that's what happened on the first visit when Marianne and Buffett and her daughter Rachel Buffett and I spoke for about forty five minutes to an hour before he went into see Dan. So I'd like to go over that because it's a lot to just take in. And Daniel,
thank you so much for sharing all that. So what you're saying is, before your first visit into the Men's County Jail to visit Daniel Wazniak, you sat first with mary Ann Buffett and Rachel Buffett, and in that conversation Rachel spoke to you about what she said on the Doctor Phil Show. Again, she shared with you what she said on the Doctor Phil Show. No, she wouldn't have been on the Doctor Phil Show. By then, remember Dr Phil Show would come down the line. Okay, so that's
what I was confused about. Dr Phil was was soon after she was arrested. In No, it's when I saw It's when I saw Dr Phil and watch what she said. My wife had to control me because I stood up and said, but that's not what you said to me and your mother. You said you texted her and you thought dan was right behind you. But now you're telling us you had no idea that this man was like this. This is what drove me nuts. He convinced everybody. She convinced everybody that I had no idea whether you came
where this came from. I said, nonsense, lady, you know exactly where this came from because you were part of it. I mean, you don't hide something like that. But then when she said that little sentence to me, if you were to suspect, how can you turn around if you were suspected Danner creaked out by it? When you saying anything, I mean, now you're acting like this came from a surprise.
I do you see what I'm trying to say. So you're saying I want to just I just want to reduce it to what I'm hearing, and and to make sure that I'm clear on what I'm hearing you're saying.
On the first visit to meet with your friend Daniel Wazniac, when he was sitting in Men's County Jail in Orange County, you first sat with Maryanne Buffett and Rachel Buffett, and in that conversation, she mentioned to you how she recalls sending an email to Julie Kubushi and who was standing right behind her watching her send this email was none other than Daniel was Niac. Yes, so I got that right, and it creeped and yes, and it creeped her out.
She said, it's important to get that in there because it creeped her out. But yet she has been claimed everyone. I have no idea what this monster came from. So what do you feel like she was trying to tell you at that moment that they were in it together. I think she was trying to puff piece me like she did everyone else. Oh, he my friend, He'll listen to me. I'm a minister. I'm not stupid. You know. I'm not going to thank your side or Dan side. I know I feel for the families. I think what
this was. No, No, that's not what I'm asking what No, Daniel, What I'm asking is, what do you believe her intent, Rachel Buffett's intent was when she told you that in that conversation you had before you went into visit Daniel, was she trying to share with you how she was involved with Daniel in this planning, you know, And from the furthest parts of my mind, I kind of got the feeling that was a way for Rachel to say, I'm scared. I don't know what to do with this.
Got it? It seems based on what I'm hearing you say, that Rachel was trying to tell you or convince you that she was afraid, but yet she knew what was going on, She knew what the plan was with him standing right behind her. That makes sense, does That's? That's yeah?
You know, I worked with enough temuchers know that you get so deep into the lie you don't know what the truth is anymore, and sometimes you'll reach out in the weirdest ways to people, And I just felt that what was happening, that that was happening in there, but that moment was gone. But that moment really obviously had an impact on you, because it sounds to me like you're still haunted by that conversation. And I'd love to know more about how you else. Because you said you
told your wife that night. I don't know if you shared it with Mary Ann Wazniak, but I sure would love to hear more. I shared it with no one. You shared it with no one. I shared it with no one. I shared it with my wife because I shared everything with her UM. I would definitely not share with Marianne. I would not share it with anyone. But what it did change me emotionally. It told me that she was hiding behind faith and this angered me. She was hiding behind faith in her church at Costa Mesa
UM Calgary Chappell Coast. To myself, they were going to hide behind Mom was going to get her to interview with them and talk with them, and he'll kind of give her guidance and everything. And I said, you can't. I told her the same thing until Dan, don't hide behind GUD. That ain't gonna happen. Don't do that. I tell you you're right now, don't do it. And that's
what I think when she said that to me. One of two things was going on a what I just told you, I think she was trying to reach out and tell me something or be She was so immersed into the lie by then it was just another performance and I was just another person in the audience watching it. So she thought she poured on and for the last number of years I had struggled with both of those points.
So ironically, in her zeal to quote unquote perform for you, as you say, she wanted you to believe that she was this innocent right, that she was just a damsel in distress, creeped out as she said to you, by Dan standing behind her when she sent that message to Julie on Facebook. But what she accidentally revealed to you really was that that piece of information that in fact he was standing behind her, which one can conclude meant that they were in partnership and they were in cahoots
with this plan. You know. But I think over the years she's learned to mastermind it. Now now she's polished her technique and she's got it down to where she doesn't even know what the truth is anymore. She's so far gone, in my opinion, based upon that encounter I had with her, I had the right to say what I say, and I really think, in my opinion, based upon what I heard and observed from her with her mother,
she was an integral part of this operation. She she took Dan down that dark road, they ran out of money, they got into drugs, and then she flipped switches and said, we've got to do that, take care of this. And I just believe she was part of it. Well, that is certainly a lot to take in. And I wanted to expand on your thought that you said that she was hiding behind her faith. One of an instance that I can recall when I when I first met with
you and your wife. Your wife had said to me that during the Doctor Phil episode, when she tries to explain away one of her felony charges, which is what that she told police the same story about there was a third man in a black hat that they last saw with Sam and a story quite frankly that Daniel ultimately told police was a lie that he made it up, but at the time she went with it, and she told the same thing to police. And the way she was trying to explain that away on Dr Phil was
she used this coffee pot story. You have a wife, right I do a beautiful wife. Thank you. If your wife told you that she had just made a cop or a pot of coffee and it was in the kitchen, and then you didn't see it, but later on somehow it became really important whether or not it was there, and a cop asked you, um, what was in your kitchen and say, oh s bachelor fork and a pot of coffee. I trusted him, and I trusted that what he said was true, and especially before I thought it
really mattered, I didn't question it. And then later on in question when the police asked me, well, did you actually see him? And I said, well, no, no, I didn't. I gotta tell you back when I had a real job before this, UM, I worked as a litigation consultant. And that sounded like a really coached response that didn't sound like Rachel talking. I want to know what you have to say about it, not what you worked out in a conference room with your lawyer to say about it.
And your wife told me that that is a story that was coached straight out of the Calvary Church. Can you expand on that. I'm not going to label the Calvery Church for that one, because I have too much respect for Coveray Chapel and no. Well, what I mean is when you said to me earlier in this interview that she hides behind her faith. It recalls for me the conversation I had with your wife when she said that that was a very coached story that was told
to her by the Calgary church. After all, it was the Calgary church that raised Rachel Buffett's bail money to begin with. Well, the thing, the thing you have to understand. I don't want to be on a lecture here, but I think she took everything that those good pastors and laid people to talk to her about and twisted it to her own being. The thing I mean, she twists everything.
I mean, she twists it all. And the thing is is I don't I will say this day go to my death knowing that they did not coach her to say that, because that that is wilful, wilful disobedience against our respect and our love for God. And they never were to coach her. That this woman took something, twisted it and used it. I watched her, that was a desperation. She got in front of Dr Phil and she fell apart. How much these people are hurting and they think that
I had anything to do with that. It's bringing up a lot of pain for me, but I want some sort of healing or at least for them to just know that I didn't have anything to do with their pain before that. Did you make a mistake here anywhere along the way? Maybe I made a mistake coming on the show. I don't know. She was totally dismantled, and she was hesitant, and she was non consoling. It is I'm sorry she hurt. In the Bible, there's an expression called your heart is hardened. It gets to the point
to where you don't care quickly. A quick point in case is the Pharaoh. And even when you told the plagues with Moses, and God said, I will harden his heart, I will heart his heart. But yet he'll forgive you again. He'll forgive you again. So he gave the Pharaoh a lots of times, but then he hurt his heart every time, and he said, that's where it's going to be. Well, Daniel, Also, we we don't know what she said to Calvary. I mean she could have told Calvary, I've trusted my fiance.
My fiance told me all this and I believed him. So how do I express that, How do I share that with Dr Phil They never would have told her. If they didn't, they would have never gave her that advice. I can sit right here you talked. They've never given her that type of advice. The church would never have put itself in that position, because that was the most foolish thing I had ever seen. It was it. I'm surprised that there. Of course, there are people gullible enough
to buy that story. But I'm just sorry that that. I defend my church, and uh, you know, I wasn't there. I don't know what she told them, But regardless of what they told him, you know, um, that wouldn't have been hit because I talked to my Calverygeble pastor and he told me, says, that's between her and God. He said, that's between her and God because no one's ever going to know what happened, he said, and you'll have to
be accountable, damn for it. And that's what the church would have told her, Hunting, you need to tell the truth. You need to tell the truth, regardless what happened. The truth is at the bottom of all of this. If you lie, God knows you applied. You'll deal with him later, and that's all the church would have done, Timeter. They helped her because they were members of the church, and so the church tries to help their own. But for the church to give that type of advice, no, And
that's what also infuriated. People hide by the faith and they interpret and turn it around their way. And well, I think she's been doing that for a very long time. And I think she she's as good as an actress as can be if she can convince the fine people of Calvary Church that she's innocent, because they raised so much money on behalf of her bail from the community of in the church. So obviously somewhere along the line, the members and the and the and the people that
run the church were convinced of her innocence. And that sounds you know, the church is made up of we always say in the faith, the church is made up of senters. We're just the difference between us is we've been saved, as they talk about in the Christian faith, but we're still susceptible to being gullible, you know. And the thing is that God blessom for helping to raise the money. You know, they in their heart, they were
doing something they felt was right. And if she's wrong and it's going to prove to be that way, then they're just gonna say, well, we loved her, and we did what we were supposed to do. We were supposed to help a fellow sister in the church. You know, it's not their job to be judge and jury. That's God. That's true. I think that's where the cavery Schappell came from.
That's true. You know what I'm saying. Yes, And I know her boyfriend, just as a side note, shows up at all the preliminary hearings with proverbs stitched in his shirt. Once again, that's an example of how she's learned how to hide behind her faith because she certainly she does know how to perform or whatever she did. I cannot prejudge her from a faith based point of view, because that's he hearing God, and he tells us in the Bible,
don't you be judging people. That's my job. All I know is based on what I've seen and my interactions with her, is that it's like I told Daniel, you walk down the wrong path when you started playing like you're saying, even borning and all this so you'd be very careful with that because you start mocking God and you can have to deal with them eventually. Enough said there, So tell me about that as you continue down the road, because I know that you met with and you'll fairly often.
Did you always have to go through Rachel or did did anything change with that relationship? Nope? After that first visit, I made it very clear to her her mother and Dan, I don't I don't get anyone's permission to see you. And so I applied to the jail and she was history. After that, she never came. He would see her, but I said, I want nothing to do with it. You'll see me when I'm available, and we'll come in and see each other. So I, I I meanly came in on
Saturdays to see him. So you had no interaction with her after that one instance, Nope, I was done. You know. I tried to help it after that. What she said, I see they're backing away from this. I'm saying, I hit a nerve. I'm leaving it alone. My focus is on my friend Danny. So tell us about your friend Dan and your talks with him and your meetings with him. Share with us what you learned. During that time about your friend. Well, knowing first that when I came in
everything is monitored. We knew you can't talk about the case itself. They don't. They get a little cranky about that. And I told Daniel, I said, Daniel, I said, so I learned. I learned a circle talk, and what I would do. The basic thing was to see a are you okay, are you keeping in touch with mom? How's your how's your heart feeling? And so we we would
do that. That's the first thing we would do. We we have our little meet and greet and we'd say, hey, how you're doing a few jokes and he and that's just the way he had I had our conversation. So I was trying to keep as natural, but I was trying, and he was really into the Bible. He had his Bible mark up. So I would send him in the scripture readings and we would constantly back and forth for quite a while, would be sharing letters about the Bible. Letter.
He's very knowledgeable. He was sharing his people there. But then a lot of people say that gel House conversion could have been but I felt the answers he was getting to me were quite real. However, that being said as we got near the end of the visits, because then I stopped coming because it's just got to be too much. You know, I've got a family to around here. Um about that time, I think he met a blogger at that time, and that started to get a little
out of hand for me. And but let me finish up with Dan when he talked at great length, and one of the themes that would run through this conversation when I looked at me and said, you know what you gotta do. You do not let Scott Sanderson run this trial. And I told Scott to back off. Scott said, I don't like you talking to him about the faith. I said, them of your business, and man, I said, I will talk to that man about what I want. And neither you nor the court are gonna tell me
I can't. And I told you and I said that and said, you want to stop my business, go ahead, And he said no. He said I've told Scott you can talk to I said, you dog on right, I can talk to you. Because he knew I was. I'm very true to my faith. And I said, Dan, I'm a sinner. Is the next guy. I said that, you know what God loves you, and he still loves you, and I said, but you can't be true for him. I said, you know in your heart if you owe those families and apologies, that's up to you. I cannot
make you do that. If you did it, he said, that's how I had to couch it because I didn't want him to get into that, and so he was good with that. But the biggest question I was asked, I mean, was he conning me during all these visits? I said no, and my wife said, really, I said, he still was this the day I told her that, here was a comment. I told her the Dan I started talking to was the one that left me in the moving drunk. He's back and she goes what I said,
I'm telling you something. He's no longer in that woman's environment, and it's gone. But it's too late. The damage is done. But this is the Daniel I knew, and people have always like, no, this is the same. This is the Daniel I knew. And that's why I loved going to see him because Dan could never be asked me because I always told him, Dan, you can't be sps returning to try it. He'd laugh and uh, but no, Linda.
The transformation was frightening. Not the first couple of business, because I see he was still routed by her and the whole thing that went on. But as we started talking and getting back to who he was, I saw that, I saw the death. I loved going there because that was the Daniel I honestly believe. I've told several people, I said, you don't understand the dam that left and came back. I'm sorry, I mean, that's a different character. He said, well, I said no, even his mom told
us how he grew up the way it was. I mean, there's it changed. But in the jail visits, that was the Dan I enjoyed talking to. Because I know my wife, I wouldn't waste my time. But I said, Dane, I said, he's on it, and so he'd write me. He said, my birthday cards on my and he called me Dano. That's my nickname with Dan Dano, you know. And I said, I said well, and I told her, I said that after a while, this blogger got involved, and I just said,
I don't know where that story was going. And that was taken Dan off into just a to a tangent. I wasn't quite sure what was going on. And I said, I can't do this anymore. So I told Dan, I said, and there you're gonna be heading up to Quintin so and I said, but I will try to keep up with you. I'll try to keep at touch with you. And the last time I saw Dan was on a jail house documentary or something where he was talking and bragging about something and I looked at my wife and said,
who is that? I said, that's the third Daniel. I don't get this. This moved like a commercial Daniel. I don't know that's how I called it. This was a man with no remorse, and this is who I am. And that was basically the last, the last remember I had of Dan, but I did. I will say this, Linda, for the record, the Dan I knew came back for the brief time. I got to talk to him in prisident and counsel him and talk to him that Dan
was back. I just wish you hadn't the left. So the documentary that you're referring to, is that the lot when he appeared on lock Up on CBC's lock Up when he was denying that he was involved in the murders. YEP, I look here, I said, and she said, oh yeah, And my wife said, you still believe it's him. I said, no, that's the world. Get a hold of him. But you do know, of course, that he did confess to police the day after he was arrested that you know he
did he did kill those people. But see, that's the Dan, that's the truthful Dan. That's the truth. I'm glad they got that out of him because that's who Dan is. He's or is being honest. The fact that he didn't drag that as I did. I did it. But Dan is a victim of of what I call circumstance and things around him in his environment. You know, it'll swing one way. That they got that out of him right away when he was as most vulnerable. That's probably the
most truthful Dan ever was. I mean, well that was also after all he had he had a call with Rachel, and on that call, Rachel shared with him that she ran into Tim Wazniak and Tim told her that he had the gun and the evidence, and and he knew that Rachel was bringing that in that basically she was
going to go to Costa Mesa with that information. That was prompted by a friend of hers that was sitting right next to her her car, a woman by the name of Violet Randolph, because she wasn't going to do that on her own, but Violet said, if you don't go to the police, I will, And that's when Dan called in from jail and said, Okay, I have to tell the Coast of Masa police what I heard from Tim or else. It looks like I'm covering up everything she did. It seems was based on her protecting herself.
And and so that's one day decides he's going to now go in and tell the Coastal Maca police. He said, I want to talk to you, and that's when he confessed to the murders. What I want to know is what she had on him or what she did to him that he still does this day. We're not involver that just that defies the Danna even I knew that he would do that. The sense that I haven't, the sense that I have from the people I've spoken to, is that it involves Tim and Tim. Tim's involvement is
is hinged on Rachel's involvement. So therefore, if he reveals Rachel's role as the mastermind or certainly as an accomplice in these crimes. Then she will revealed Tim's involvement as well. So I think it has to do with him protecting his brother. Yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah, through the second party, I agree with that. So tell me what was No, I've not talked to him since he's got I've not talked to him since he's on to Quentin and had
no communications. And so you felt the visits that you had with him, you felt like you reconnected and who reappeared was the old Daniel you once knew. Yeah, I, to my dying day will say that he was saying prayers with other people, he was leading worship services and stuff, and that's just how he felt and that's who Dan is. But a lot of people are gonna look at that and say that's just jail house conversion. I go, well, that's probably true, but not with this kid. I do
this kid, And this is what blowing his mother. His mother was devastated by his turn of events. Devastated. This is not damn, this was not her day and there was nothing leading up into it until he took off with Rachel. But from the time he left in that truck, I kick you not. I will say this in front
of a judge. His life changed. I'm not saying how it happened, but I believe but the only work of the only one thing I did see, and I will say this, the one continual presence in his life from that point on was Rachel Daven did two leads in the play together at Dark Side of Play, So you're going to tell me? And I told her in our little talk, I said, you had no idea. It was
going why no idea? You had no idea? And in three sentences later she says what she said now, And I think she knew what she said about Dan being over her shoulder when she sent the email to you know, she said that email at eleven fifteen, the night that Julie was murdered. Julie was murdered between twelve and twelve oh four, uh, you know, early morning on Saturday or
the turn of midnight that Friday night. So within forty five minutes of Julie being murdered, Rachel coincidentally sends that Facebook message to Julie, which Daniel's defense attorney has said that THEE believes Rachel sent that message as her potential alibi saying, I can't wait to see you after my wedding and we'll catch up and we'll enjoy the summer sun together by the pool. But then when she told me that I haven't told anybody illegal world, I just
told you about that conversation. I haven't, and I will tell you because I know where your heart is and what you want to do with this the truth behind us. But that says I, I know the Christian side of he says, I want Jesse's all the way around, fool. Justice needs to be served and to just just it's just, it's just not that just staggers me. I go back to that that conversation, and I said, well, if he was creaty, he was, I new he was behind me
when I was taking it. I just knew it. I don't know how far they've lived from these people, but three floors up Sam's apartment was three floors up. That's right, that's right. And so see when she gave me that piece of information, I it wow. And I don't think she's ever said that before to anybody. I think she she had because she has told everyone. I had no idea who's happening. I had no idea this was going on, Why did you feel creeped out from him behind you?
And if you weren't suspective of it, why would you be thinking what would you be thinking that because she wasn't because she wasn't creeped out? Exactly, Yeah, exactly. And that's why that piece of conversation with me has bugged me, and the fact that Marianne Buffett would not respond to me. But I said, you need to talk to her about this, because right that's it sounds to me like after you sent her that email saying, do you realize what your
daughter said in it? Since they shut down all communication because they realized now they slipped with you. Ye, And I just stayed out of the picture. I talked him a couple of years later. I said, things are well, I gotta pay. Yeah, we're fine. We're just putting this all behind us. I just I stayed away from it because it was just too I miss I missed in I missed those days. But I'm also a realist because there are two families that are missing people in their family,
and so I had to temper that with that. But I'm still not going to give up all my memories because I will always have you take them away from me. But yes, do people change, Yes they do, Yes, they do. And the thing is is there's nothing I can do about that. But I'll be dog on if I'm gonna sit here and want someone get away with it. No, that's just not It's not my job as a law I'm not a law person who can go out there
and say, Okay, I need to do justice. But I can do things like sharing this with you because this breaks my heart, because you're the only one I've told about that conversation, because I know you'll go the right direction with this. But I think your listeners need to know that Dan was a good man. And I'm not ashamed to say that. People. How can you say I said because it was I'm not life. I said, I've got thousands of people who believe me and trust me,
and they knew Dan was a good man. Uh, Daniel. I can tell you this, Dan, that I've spent two and a half years on this case, and I've interviewed over three of people, and as a journalist, I can say unequivocally that I do believe Daniel Wozniak would have never murdered if he had never met Rachel Buffett, and I can also share with you that the Costa Masa
Police are in agreement with me. And I can also tell you that while I know you weren't there during the trial, one of the most compelling days was when Scott Sanders was cross examining Sergeant Ed Everett from the Costa Masa Police Department, and it came to the point where Scott was asking him how he felt about Rachel Buffett, and he basically repeated it back to him, saying, do you do you really want to know what I feel
about Rachel Buffett? And of course Mr Sanders said, yes, I do, and he's he very passionately picked up his right arm and pointed his finger directly at Daniel Wazniak in front of the jurors and said, I believe she should be sitting right next to Daniel Wisniak. That's what she belongs, and I agree with Hi. Everyone was looking at each other and you could hear the gasps of the audience. And I remember when he walked by me.
I said, good for you, Ed, good for you, yeah, and he said, do you think I'm going to get fired? I said, no, you can't get fired. For telling the truth. So how did you feel when you first heard Daniel Wozniak confessed to the murders. I was on tour doing a show. I was doing Brika Dune down in San Diego County with a food sencific light opera, and I
was doing a role. And all of a sudden, someone said, by way, so many things says you've been to Take a look at his newspaper headline sent by a friend. And I look at it, and I just about every once it was wrong, I said, And he said, we know that guy. You know that guy? I said, total, I say, you know him? And so I shared my story with him, and I was devastated. I had two more performances to do and that was just just I chuck when I saw what had happened and the degree
that had happened. I knew things were getting dark over there, but lord, I had no idea theyver that dark. And I had just gotten an email from him there all my friends come see me and my fiance and our new play. Yeah right, I'm gonna see that dark play. I don't think so. But I did get an email, a mass email, and I just gotten that. But I was out on tour. And but when I saw that, I was just believe, you know, it's just And then when I saw the hideousness of the of it, I
just went whoa as I get that spelling again. But then they showed his picture and I said, and that was a comment I made to Sanders. I said, you see that picture, said man behind the bars, you know it's a raiment. Look at those eyes. That's not that's not the dan. I know it's not. And my wife goes, you're right after that's the band who said, oh my god, where have I been for the last two years? And now what have I gotten into? And yeah, you brought
your family into this. You brought your family into this darkness. And he never would have put Tim into something like that. He never would have done this to his family. But that's how much power does young lady hasn't in my opinion, I hope they take that power away from her. I hope that justice has done whichever is I hope they has done. Yeah, the power of unrequited love. I don't think she ever loved him, That's what I'm saying. It's unrequited.
He loved her, but yeah, unrequited, Yeah, oh, he loved her with a passion. He cot ut his own family, and she took advantage of that old bloodedly and you
want to talk about cold blooded. The night he was arrested at Tsunami Sushi for at that point bank front, because they still thought Sam was their number one suspect and they just thought Dan was helping him, hiding him, so they went and arrested him as bachelor party at Tsunami Sushi, and they went afterwards to go pick up Rachel at the Camden Martinique apartments, and by early that morning, she was sharing with them that she really didn't love him.
She wasn't with the top about him, but that was okay. He was a terrible lover. He had a small penis. She's telling the police, the Costa Mesa police this and they were supposed to be married one day later. I mean, I know who talks like that about their future husband?
You see that, and see that's all gets lost and that and and and just it gets all lost, and the animation of you know that be hitting and all this stuff, you know, and and and that should be out there, but all this stuff just factored away behind the screens. And she took advantage of it. I'm telling you that girl had to applaud of this because Dan would never had sat down a methodically figured this all out. That's just too evil. I'm trying it would have done that.
But I do believe he's weak, and I think he gave in because he loved her so much. I'll do anything, and I think it's solely got into this gouta the drugs. Gotta that they ran out of money. Well I can't just I can't. I kind of I defend my eye kind of make money. I gotta do this. There's no way that would have been going on, plus with a six week rehearsal of play, that those two would that gross paths and talked about it. That's just not gonna happen.
I know, the theater world, they have to know what each other is doing. So that's I mean all their neighbors and all their friends that hung out with them all during that time, because they moved in Valentine's Day February four, and then the murders took place May two ten, so they weren't there for very long. But the friends that they did develop their they all shared with me that she was in charge She was the one with the power. She was the one with the influence. I mean,
she was on him like White on Rice. If he was texting or calling, who was that? Who are you talking to? I mean, there was no He had no breathing room to plan anything on his own. From what I can gather from these interviews I've had, and I have a quick little story that I think gives you an indication of of just how much power she did
have over him. One of the parties that they attended was something called Taco Tuesdays, and it was a collection of all the neighbors and they all got together at a friend, Dave Barne, who lived there, and he had these parties and they got a little out of hand. It was sort of like Caligula, you know. There was a lot of booze, a lot of drugs, perhaps even partner swapping, who knows. But anyway, and I was told
there were actually tacos there. So but they one of the nights, two people have told me, two witnesses there have said that they recall Rachel trying to pump up her own influence, her own sort of in a Bravado kind of way. Look at look at the control I have over him. Watched this and she, you know, instructed Daniel that he had to kiss another guy that was sitting next to him on the couch or else. She wasn't going to go home with him and make love
to him. And she basically said it loud enough so other people watched, and sure enough he went ahead and kissed the man and she everybody laughed and basically like he was the court jester, and and sure enough she said, see see what I can do, See how I control him. So I just think that is so insidious, and that to me, is such a reflection of just how much he would do for her. Yeah, that's a shame because as his own fault for me in that week, I blame him for that. You know, you know what you're
growing up, You should have known your principles. But the thing is is, I just don't think that he wanted to be loved. It's one thing about Dan. He wanted to be like he wanted to be loved, and I could see that in him. He had that need. His mother loved him, his family loved him, but he wanted a separate love, something that wasn't family related. And this woman had given anything he wanted. I missed the dan that was. But it's just like, that's some what life
deals with you. And the thing is that you're not taking my memories away, You're not taking my videos of him and my family, You're not taking them of that a way, you're not turnishing any of that. Now when it comes to the part of what he did, I hope you know you know what. I'm sad that happened, I said, but I'm not gonna break tie him. He will always be my friend. He'll always be like a
son to me, and I'll always keep that. I mean, sons can be bad, sons converder, they do that, But do you just room no do that with people than your family, you know, and you don't justify what they did. So what she did to Marian Wisnia and her family, I think Rachel Buffett's involvement in this needs to be accounted for because she had her involvement had such a huge effect on so many families and so many lives.
You just to be able to walk away with with a smarmie look like well, coffee pot this and that isn't that? No, Now you need to be behind ours So the world knows. No, you were a part of it. You were guilty. That's that's that's fine for me. That closes the door for me. Tell our listeners. So few people know Marian was Nick didn't come to the trial, Dan, Dan didn't want her there. Give our listeners a sense of who Marian was Niack is. Oh, I'd be more
than happy to Marian Wisniak was just a sweetheart. You know, she had tempered, you know, if she if she thought you were attacking her family or whatever, you know, but she she loved her son, she loved him, and she was just so upset by all this. I think she was upset by the influence of where he went. And she would tell me Dan, I don't know where he went, and you know, I don't where he went, but there
was such a terrible influence here. I said, I know, but you know what, you know, if he did this that, then you know he's gotta he's got to be dealt with. But he said, it's influence a word. When I said Marian, I said, you know, And it got to the point to where it was just killing her family. I couldn't go out in public, they couldn't handle the phone calls. I mean, and I know it killed her ouse, but I was just the pressure of it was just too much.
It had embittered her near the end and embittered her near the end, and when she wouldn't talk to me anymore, she do want to have talked to the public anymore because with him gone, she said, look how much more of a price I got pay? Now you know what is this all about? But Marianne loved her family, she loved life, She loved people around her. She was joining around. That woman could tell a story tale. She was not local,
but she wasn't stupid. She's very woman. And uh, but I do know she loved her son, and her son spoke very highly of her, and I know those two differed with each other when he met Rachel and they were going to go away, I think there was a disagreement about that. But then again, that happened that a lot of families, mothers and their sons. But this broke her heart. It's just destroyed her. And she wouldn't go into public because she wasn't ashamed of her son, which
is too much. And she was trying to protect her husband because she knew he couldn't take it drag him into public through this. No, this is too much for him. And she was a protector, but this one she could I think Marianne couldn't protect herself. This one. She can't protect her father, her husband, and her son at the same time. It was too much on her, and so she she staying with her family that's very close knit. Her, his aunt and everything. They're all very close. And it
just took a toll. I mean, you're in Orange County. He's knew a lot of people, and all of a sudden, this happens. You're a mother and father of a vicious murder. That was hard for them. That was like night in day. You know, I don't know if I don't know, if you know Dan the story of what happened to Darryl. But you're right that Marianne couldn't protect her husband either. But uh, it really happened based on a fight that
Mike had with his father. He ended up beating him pretty severely, and Marianne was very afraid to bring him into the e er because she knew that the police would be called. He was beating up so badly, and it was the first This is Darryl, Daryl was beating up so bad. Daryl was beaten up by his oldest son, Mike, who was in town and was drinking so heavily, and he got in a fight with his father and beat
him so severely that he really needed hospital attention. But Marianne was petrified to bring him because she knew the police would be called based on his injuries. And it was the first week of dani his trial, and she was so fearful of the publicity and what it would do to Daniel that ultimately she didn't take him in and he ended up dying a month later, not even a month later, it was two weeks later. Actually, what did they ever talk about what the fight was about?
Tim told me the story, told me that he came in and his father was so bruised and beaten up and with a black eye and could barely talk, and they and Maryanne was hysterical and told him that it was Mike, and Mike's never allowed back in this house again, and it was pretty bad. And no do I know, Tim never knew himself what the fight was about, but supposedly it didn't take much from Mike's ears on steroids with wrestling. He still does pretty heavy duty drugs from
what I understand, and he was drunk. And I mean, poor Mary. I look at the decisions she has to make and the choices that she has to make. These these are not easy boys that she has had to make these choices for. I mean, I know their family, and I know that you stand by your family, and I agree with you. Even if your son murder someone, it's still family, right, you don't abandon them. But but I do. My heart aches for Marianne because how much can one mother take. And I've never heard of a
history of violence with Daniel. Never to this day, I've never heard. I haven't had people not talk to me about a history of violence when he was a kid. I mean that to live in a family like that with very dysfunctional I mean, I don't know the bottom mind. And I didn't know that about Darrel. That breaks my heart because I love that man, I really did. He was just the nicest, sweetest man. I know, awful story, right,
I loved him. I loved him. I loved him. He just but you know what, you never know what lies behind the door of a family. I mean, that's just so intimate in private, you have no idea. I mean, they put on a face in the public, then in the background, who knows what's going on. And that's but I think it's also the plight of a of a working mom. I've heard from people that she tended to have to just like write money towards some of their problems.
When the boys had troubles growing up, she always believed their side of things instead of teachers or coaches or whoever else was having an issue with them. And and as as a single working mother myself, I can appreciate that you do have guilt and you do try to fix problems as best you can, and because you feel like you're not there as much as you should be.
And so I understand that tendency. I understand what she was trying to do, which was keep her family together, and um, it's not it's not easy, yeah, And I think that's why she didn't go into the public because as a good mom, she knew the laundry that that family had and she just didn't want to air. It's hard enough for her to try to deal with it. She's had enough her families now. The world was imploding, and it's amazing that she gets up in the morning
and functions. Well, I hopefully we can put this whole thing to rest with with the with the with the trial. Hopefully we get a little closure on it second night. I mean, it's just it's just a long story that never is. I hope through that conversation we're having and all kinds of things that are happening all over the place, that people kind of get an understanding that the human being is one complicated program. I mean, we are so complicated.
But I have enjoyed talking to you well, thank you, sir, and I've enjoyed it as well. And I want to end with this last question, which is I know you've mentioned the blogger, and I wanted to know what your feelings are about her introduction into Daniel's life. Self interest not on the level of Rachel Buffett, but I think my tendency to listen to her and everything, by the time I was able to stand back and look at it, I just thought it was more self serving. I gotta
save this person. I got to be a part of this person's life. Maybe I can help them. I've got something empty in my life. But to me, it made no sense that blogger did not belong in his life. I just did not because I did not understand the purpose of it. I did not get it to this day. I talked on phone, I talked to her and emails. I said, I like what you're doing that. I was concerned where she was going, and every time she turned
away from it, I kind of went. She got over the talk, but I just didn't see what she wanted out. But I don't know if she still talks to him. But it got too commercial for me, and they were they were talking about stuff that just I went, I'm getting lost in all of this where if you know, no, I think it was. It's hard to tell. I don't be critical, but I just don't. I just didn't see it. When she first got into his life, I went, I don't know. I should be careful because I thought Dan
was playing her. I really did. When she started saying what she said, I said, I told her point like, I said, you'd be careful. I love that boy like that, but be careful. I think you remplayed. Do you think that she's been a detriment to him or or has she helped him? That's hard when to call. That's a hard when to call. I if I don't know what she expects a Daniel. I mean, what's the point. Daniels probably had more psychological reviews. Who knows? I mean, are
you helping him? I don't know. I just don't know. I mean, I know, I don't know if she's still talking to him in the Clinton, but she visits him at San Quintin. But you know what, if she's still visiting him, it gives him someone to talk to. If something positive comes out of that, been good, I'm happy for that. But if she's looking for a relationship beyond just a relationship with him, I don't know that. I have no idea. But if you've got someone to talk to,
thank God for that. You know, as long as I'm not just buessing each other. She seemed pretty solid there for a while that she wasnt gonna take any nonsense. But then you know, it's just got to be after a while, this this, this this trial was just too tender. I had to get away from it after a while. I'll leave you with this. I didn't know what was truth or not, what was truth or fiction anymore? Between those two? Were you telling stories he wanted to hear?
What's he telling you? What you wanted to hear. I couldn't disseminate between it anymore as I just stopped reading the blogs, but I do think she has this rescue mentality. Maybe I can say to him, you can't. Daniel, thank you so much for your time and you're honesty and your willingness to share all of your insights that really really has added to this story. And we're grateful that you're willing to come on and talk to us. Well,
I'm grateful for your taking a story. You're involved in it for the years you've been involved with it, and I appreciate that because I get a feeling, a very sincere feeling, and I hope your listeners are listening very carefully. But I really feel that you care about this man, you care about the people involved, you care about everybody that's involved, and you just want the story out there. And I like that because there's so many textures, there's
so many angles to the story, so many levels. You just can't take your face value, which is the in print. You've got to delve into it like you've been doing, and I'm glad you've done it. You pull things even with me that I had forgotten. You pull them out
and say Okay, let's talk about this. And I think this is a good because people listening can listen to the passion of people's voices, listen to the tenor and tone of what they're saying, what excites some what doesn't excite them, and they make their own decision to what they believe. But I like this better than the fact that people can hear this conversation. I applaud you with this, and I think this is great. And uh, I think I'm going to get up my heart radio now and
listen as a describer. Thank you so much. That means a whole lot. You're welcome, Thank you, thank you all right Now, next week on Sleuth, we're back to our Santa Anna, California courtroom front row seat. As the accessory to murder trial of Rachel Buffett comes to a close. Both prosecutor Matt Murphy and defense counsel David Medina deliver powerful summations to the jury of twelve. Both attorneys are hoping to sway the members one way or the other
for a verdict. Each lawyer desperately hopes lands in their favor. How do you think the jury will decide? What do you field the verdict will be Stay tuned so you don't miss a minute of our exclusive trial coverage, heard only here on Sleuth. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with a friend and be sure to leave a rating or review. Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode