Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language. Out of the blue, we were talking about mydea and she just went, if you could get away with killing someone, would you kill them? And I know, I was kind of like a taken back. I thought it was an odd question and I just answered no, and she said,
I would welcome to sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. Next up, we welcome Christen Burgo Moscow now Kristen Crane, who knew Rachel Buffett during their time together as students attending Long Beach Community College's theater department. Kristen's stories about her encounters with Rachel our foreboding tales of a future that Kristen early predicted for Rachel just two weeks before the murders.
Hey Kristen, Hi, how are you So? You were a witness at Daniel wazni next trial and you shared with the court a lot of your observations and experiences with her, which pretty much happened during that time you were at the Long Beach Community College? Is that correct? Correct? So why don't you give us a sense of when you first met her, what was the first encounter you had?
And and uh, take us back to that time. Sure, um at the college campus, I was part of the theater program, and it was a tight knit community to be in. Most of us were friends. But I did feel that regarding Rachel there was kind of a divide. There were some people that I thought she was really and then there were some people that thought she was very nice. And I'm the type of person that likes to you know, I like to come to conclusions on
my own, so I gave everyone a fair chance. I won't let somebody else's opinion as somebody else kind of sway me. So when I first met Rachel, I thought she was nice. Different, but I did think she was nice. So my initial impression was that she was nice. And when I say she was different, it was kind of obvious that she was a little bit more sheltered, I want to say, than most people at that age, because I think abound the time I was start either nineteen or I think it was the fall of two thousand
and six. Said yeah, so then I would have been I would have been nineteen. Yeah, so for me and my experience of other nineteen year old and then I did find out that she had been homeschooled, I attributed it to that, like, maybe she's just a little socially awkward because she had been homeschooled. Not to attack anybody that's been home school When you're that, you just don't have you don't have the experiences of being amongst your peers.
You just don't have that social aspect of your growing education, right right? Did you get close with her because you were both in the theater department there, So how I got to know her better was and I we were both cast in a show together. Um, and that was Anti Guny. We were in Antigny together. Yeah, we were casting a show together. And so I lived in Orange County,
so it was a far drive for me. So I would I would have classes in the morning and afternoon and then there would be like a two hour gap where between my classes and rehearsals, so I'd kind of just be stuck on the campus and a lot of times Rachel had the same gap as I did. So since we were in the show together, I was just kind of like, hey, you want to hang out and keep each other company between rehearsals and class So that's kind of how I got to know her better. You
developed a bit of a friendship at the time. Yeah, I would say, yes, So tell us about the conversations that you would have with her when it involved you on these breaks. I remember the time where we were in the car together going to Starbucks. We were on a break between class and rehearsal, and we were talking about media. Media is a Greek tragedy where a scorned woman, um, she ends up to seek revenge on her ex husband, um,
she actually killed her two children. Since we were talking about this Greek tragedy, she had asked me out of the blue. We were talking about media, and she just went, if you could get away with killing someone, would you kill them? And I no. I was kind of like a taken back. I thought it was an odd question and I just answered and she said I would Wow, that must have I mean, how did how did you feel at that moment um At that moment, I think this was like the beginning of of kind of me
going all right, there, there's I'm starting. I was starting to see how others in my department wanted to keep their distance from her. A lot of people would say she was crazy, and I wanted to kind of develop that opinion on my own before I passed any quick judgments, and and that was where I was The wheels in my head were starting to turn that maybe she wasn't the most say, the best person to spend your time with.
So she basically said she would like it was just so matter of fact that if she was guaranteed she could get away with it. Yes, that's what she said. From what I've heard from other former friends of hers, that there's this sort of selfishness, this sense of the attention always has to be on me, similar to almost like a Casey Anthony. I definitely had looking back, I definitely felt, especially at the time, by the time two thousand eight rolled around, I believe like the Casey Anthony
case had a lot of attention. And I do remember making that observation saying the same thing that she reminds me of Casey Anthony, so that there was there was a soullessness to her. I yes. And there was even a professor at the theater department that I mean, and this was like a few years before anything had happened, and he had I can't remember the exact quote, but he said something to that effect that when you look into her eyes, there's just white there's no soul there
and that's stuck with me. And I also do remember when we were in rehearsal one day. I don't remember what we were talking about. I remember Rachel had said something to the effect of I would rather be infamous
then not known at all. Well, that certainly falls in line with what some of her friends at the time who were at the press conference when she was released from jail, that she was telling some of her friends that she was so impressed that she was hearing the news about her release and that they were referring to her as an actress, and that was what really struck
her as right. Yeah, yeah, And I do remember uh something to that effect, but I think in a different setting, I remember there was and I didn't hear this directly because by the time everything happened, by the time you know, Dan had gotten arrested, I no longer spoke to her, but I had mutual friends that spoke to her. I had a mutual friend that spoke to a friend of hers, and I know that File Ruble had a friend named Marissa who was very close to Rachel at that time.
And when I think, if I'm remembering the story correctly, Marissa actually went to the wedding. She didn't realize the wedding had been called off, and so she called called Rachel to see what was going on. And Rachel's reaction to that was, well, google Dan and then call me back. So I think, you know, until Marissa looks it up. She sees what happened, so she called, you know, Rachel back. She's,
of course devastated, shocked. And I remember Rachel had said, Zamerisa that all the newspapers and all the articles about it that referred to her as an actress, and she was like, can you believe it, They're calling me an actress? Like she was really proud of that, of of that reference. Instead of really wanting to cower in shame that you involved and attached to this uh person that committed these murders, instead, you cite the reference of you being an actress as
some kind of a glory moment. Yeah. And and at that time, because I had already stopped speaking to her because I thought she was very strange and quite frankly capable of these types of things, I was not surprised in the slightest right that she that this would be her reaction. I wasn't just sort of disassociated from the reality of what the subject matter was and why she was in the press in the first place. Exactly exactly.
There's no remorse, there's no nothing, nothing. I know that you were aware of a story about the the Gentleman that she sort of outed as a as a gay man. Would you share that. I think it was with Andy Pitts. Yes, tell us that story, because it really, to me is indicative of how how evil she can be, how cruel. Right. Um, Well, at at that time, I believe she had some sort
of secret relationship with Kyle Ruble. And I say it was secret because I if I'm remembering this correctly, I believe Kyle had a at the time, what had a was in a relationship with somebody else and him and Rachel had something else going on on the side, and there was a party at Andy's house and um, and Andy Pitts was a mutual well friend, He was a colleague at the school. He was a friend of mine. Yes, And I believe at the time, like I think, at the time, he was not um. I think he identified
as a straight man. I am not sure, but Rachel had it in her head that he was gay, and so there was a party at his house. He slept with him, and at the end of it all, Um, I believe she said something to him to the effect of, hey, she let him know that she was also sleeping with Kyle, and it made him feel really awkward. But she also said to him, I thought you were gay, and I thought this could help you come out. And didn't she out him with all the other students. Didn't he leave
the college for a while? Um, I don't, I don't. I know he left, but I think it was because he was ready to transfer. I don't think he left the house of that. And I remember she was. He would tell people that she thought he was gay and and this, and that she had slept with him, and she kind of made like a joke out of it. But I think most people, for everyone I knew, had
empathy for him, right, and Kyle had not. I met with Kyle and he said something to the effect of she she came back after sleeping with him and sort of shamed him in front of everybody, in front of the cast and and basically in essence was outing him. Is the feeling he got, Well, I don't, I don't. I believe she did, but I think she did it in a in a way that was like she wanted Kyle to be jealous, and she wanted Kyle to to
be violent with him in front of people. I think that was more if I'm remembering correctly, I remember that was kind of a motive as well, like she wanted Kyle to go and like beat him up in front of everybody, like how dare he bleek with his woman? But so she wanted to out him the poor guy and have him beat up at the same time, it's like all about drama for her. It sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's yeah, I mean, that's that's really evil. I'm sorry. I mean yeah that this is why I
felt that I needed to say something. And I know that Audrey McVeigh is another friend of hers, or was a friend for a while, and I know that you're also friends with her. I spent I've spent quite a bit of time with Audrey, and she's been so candid and forthright as far as her experiences with Rachel. And I know that you also know quite a bit about how there was this propensity to steal. Yeah, and I
I never experienced that first hand. I heard about it through Audrey and and Audrew said it was a regular there was sort of a daily lifestyle choice that that it was food and clothes and furniture. And the only thing that upset Rachel was she couldn't figure out how to steal her cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I remember Audrey telling me about that. Yes, what fascinated me was supposedly she stole her bridesmaid stresses from Burlington co Factory.
And I'm like, she's such a little thing. How on earth did she hide hid those dresses? Yeah, well, I remember so. Um about two weeks before um, before I want to say that that it had to have been May Um, Audrey had come over to my house because she wanted to talk to me. I had warned Audrey
about Rachel. I had warned Audrey to stay away from Rachel, but Audrey was going to be a bridesmaid in their wedding, and she had called me out of the blue that May and said, you know what, I dropped out of Rachel's wedding and I'd like to come and talk to
you about it. And so she had actually come over to my apartment at the time, and UM was telling me about the ceiling and stuff like that, and I don't remember exactly what it was they that Rachel stole a Burlington co factory, but I know Audrey and her went shopping and Rachel stole things and Audrey didn't know what was going on, and Audrey didn't find out until after they went back to Rachel's apartment, and Audrey was upset because she felt like, well, if you had gotten
caught ceiling, you could have brought me down with you. And I had no idea what you were doing. That's a similar story that we had from an ex boyfriend, the same thing, Like he gets in the car and all of a sudden, she starts to laugh because he said, you don't have to steal, I'll buy it for you. And she did it anyway and without him even realizing it. And when she got in the car, she was giggling and showed him how she took a five dollar box of perfume and replaced it with a fifty dollar box
of perfume or something along those lines. And it's just something, but yeah, I could see that in a heartbeat. Yeah, so Audrey, I know she did admit that there were a lot of fun times that she had with Rachel and Dan. They were sort of a threesome for for a good period of time. But I guess once they started getting pretty heavily involved in the drugs, that's that's
when she wanted out. Yeah, that's correct, that's what. And and that same night that Audrey was telling about the stealing and this, and that she had also told me that they were using drugs and there was a lot of it. And at that point, I think Audrey had had just enough and no longer wanted to be associated with them. And I know that she was. She pulled out of the wedding, right it was it was weeks before the murder. But yeah, so she had pulled out
of the wedding. Yes, that is correct. And that same night we were talking and we were kind of talking about how cold and calculating Rachel was, and I think all all three of us, oh, I'm sorry, I had another friend at the house. Um, all three of us had said that, Um, we would not be surprised if in a few years we saw Rachel on the news for like murdering you know, her husband to get insurance money. Like I think that was exactly the words we used, and we wouldn't be surprised if we saw that. We
know what's going to happen. But the thing is, I mean, two weeks later, I saw that Dan was on the news for being arrested for a double homicide. Wow, you guys had that premonition just a few weeks before the murders, We sure did. I mean, did you guys just call each other instantly? And that was a bit freaked you all out? Yeah? Well, I I for yes, I was um that I was at work and we had a TV in the break room, and at that point I had I had gone to high school with Julie, so
I knew, I knew she had died. But when we had heard of her death, I think we kind of were under the assumption that it was Sam that had killed her. And um, so I was already like kind of upset about that. But I was at work and I was on my lunch break, and all of a sudden it broke that Daniel Wosniac had been arrested for the murders of Julie Kie Bluishi and Sam Air, And I mean, I guessed I started crying because at that time I wasn't on Facebook, and I had no idea
that Julie knew Rachel. I had no idea. Did you think at that moment that Rachel was involved as well? Immediately? I mean I looked at the TV and I saw his face, his mug shot, and I went, this is Rachel, because literally two weeks prior, we were just saying we wouldn't be surprised if we saw her on the news. Now, it didn't happen to be her. But I knew I said, that did not happen. Just it was not just a coincidence. There's a reason why we were just talking about this.
There was a reason why Audrey dropped out of the wedding. I knew that she was capable of being involved in something that horrific. So it made you think that while you might not have known Dan very well at all, that he just didn't kill alone. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't talking to her at this point, so I have no way of knowing for sure, But if I had to guess, I would definitely say that she was involved
in the planning. I would definitely say, knowing that how I had seen her try to manipulate other people in the past, that it would not surprise me at all. If she was a dry even factor in pushing him to do this or collaborating with him to do this. I don't know she actually physically did it. I don't know if I could see that, but I could definitely see her being behind the planning. Did you know Dan? I did not know Dan. I think I met him once. Um, I've never had a conversation with him. I UM. I
got creeped out by Rachel very very fast. So I would say during the rehearsal process of Antigny was the extent of our friendship. Once that ended, I kept my distance because I thought she was very strange. Did you ask Audrey what she thought of Dan? Because she was close with both of them, so I probably did. And I'm trying to think I remember, like, since I didn't
know Dan, I didn't really warn her about Dan. I just kind of always pushed Rachel like you might want to just stay away, um, but you know, she was in the wedding, so I kind of just let it be as far as Dan goes. I mean, I don't really remember her saying much other than that they had a pretty volatile relationship, but they would fight and have these crazy epic arguments. And at that point when she had come to me, that was like the first time
I had been hearing about Dan. And she told me he was using drugs of Rachel And that's kind of the extent that I knew about Dan. Now, you said you went to school with Julie, you went to Osha, I did, And did you know her very well? We were more acquaintances. I wasn't a very close friend, but I was definitely somebody that would say hello, um. But I think my high school in general, we were very tight enkit. It was a small class, so everybody kind
of knew everybody. So yeah, so I wasn't a good friend. I didn't know her on a very deep intimate level, but I knew her enough to be areas that what had happened to her. So there was some sort of a reunion as well as an event, a memorial event on behalf of Julie. Well, I did go to Julie's memorial at the high school reunion. We did have June and her husband there and we as a class, the class of two thousand five donated money to have a plaque for Julie put on Symphony Hall we didn't go
Symphony Hall so like that. Where the reunion was was right across the street from the actual high school. But what we did do was we brought June up and they presented her with I think two of the girls in my class. They made some sort of quilt and then we gave Julie a moment of silence. And that's what we did for them as part of our reunion. That's really sweet. I know that you can't find a person that has a bad thing to say about Julie, No, not at all. And the fact that she was murdered
helping a friend, it's really just so heartbreaking. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So you listen to some of the phone calls, right the jail I called him the jailhouse calls between Dan and Rachel, And I know that you have certain opinions about some of the things you heard her say, specifically when she says we don't need money, we need to be good people. Yeah, that that felt like first practice. Excuse mean, what I'm about to say, bullshit ingenuous? Um,
I just I was blown away. So she knew she was being record it and she wanted to present herself in a certain way. Absolutely, Oh, Absolutely, I don't doubt that at all. Do you think she hid behind her faith like she used faith as protection when she was getting into trouble. Absolutely. When I knew her, I felt that she kind of had a negative view of Christianity. I believe her family was was very Christian and they were strict, and my impression was that she was looking
to rebel against that. So I remember when when she had gotten arrested, and I think when they raised the bail to get her out and she made a statement and she said something to the effective, well, all I have is my God. And I felt that that was just an x all of a sudden, she's become holier than thou and saying things like, oh, well, we don't need money, we need to be good people. Yet Audrey
was just saying how she steals and does drugs. I mean, that just doesn't sound like somebody close to their faith, right. Just none of it was the Rachel you knew now now. She was never that good of an actress. Did Kyle
share with you his feelings about his ex girlfriend? Um? Yeah, I want to say my friend Megan and I were kind of close to him when he was going out with Rachel, and we would continuously tell him to break up with her, and he would complain about her, but then when it came time to actually like stand up for himself, he wouldn't do it. Um. I do remember there was a time where he did break up with her, and then she she sort of camped out in her car and his driveway, and he was kind of he
was like freaked out. He was afraid to leave. Sounds he got himself a stalker. Yeah, yeah, I mean she did. When they were together, she did kind of some odd things. I mean I remember that, Like she she would like hide his car keys and then pretend to be asleep so we couldn't get to work physically. Um, she would pretend to be sick and tell him that he needs
to take care of her. I kind of remember those things happening, and I think eventually he had gotten he got fired, He got fired from Disney because of all of those absences and late. He was late a lot too because of her. He made a lot because of her. Yeah, yeah, she she was. She was something special. We would warn him, but and he knew what we were saying was true.
But I think he I think probably at the time you know, being young, he just even afraid to break up with her, and like I said, when he did, she camped out in her car in front of his house. I feel that, I mean, just given from what I've heard the detectives say was that they know she was more involved than they can prove. And I do find it sad that they can't prove more just because I personally feel she is dangerous and so I would hope that they're able to prove and keep her away from society.
But if they can't, then at least stands where he needs to be. Given that you were a theater major at one point in your life, what would you say is the the most famous role that you could see her playing or or embodying? Rachel Buffett? Oh goodness, if they ever do a movie on Casey Anthony great wouldn't even have to act. And as far as anything more classic, I would say, Hi, Lady Macbeth, well it seems like
Rachel would fit that part. I just want to say how grateful we are, kristin hearing from you today and learning so much more about this case through your stories. No, I just I want to thank you for kind of telling the story of the of our of our victims,
and I hope that we give them a voice. Well that's the intention, and I appreciate you participating because all of you, all everybody that is participating in this podcast has provided some element, some nugget piece of truth that helps fill out the whole picture for our victims family. So I thank you so much for coming on Sleuth. Thank you Linda. On our next stallment of Sleuth, we hear from Daniel fulk Earn, an ordained pastor and longtime
advisor Daniel Wazniak. Daniel worked for the pastor for many years in his appraisal business, all during the time that Daniel also dated the pastor's daughter, Emily. Pastor Hulkyard has many fond memories of Daniel, who he still to this day refers to as his son. He recounts to Sleuth, however, the one lasting painful memory he witnessed when Daniel left the pastor's home, leaving his old life behind and driving off into the darkness with his future fiance Rachel Buffett
by his side. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with a friend and be sure to leave a rating or review. Follow sleuth on I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode.