0085 Sir Gene Speaks with Dude Named Ben

join me once again is sir dude named Ben, how are you today, Ben?

I'm doing well, Jean doing well.

So you're a guest on my podcast. How's it feel to be a guest on the podcast again?

well, we're getting close to the new show. We've got some art coming. That's looking pretty good. We've got theme song that secret agent Paul's working on for us. So we're getting close. We're just not quite there yet. That's why we're doing this one still under yours.

Yeah, that's all. So we're just being transparent. Everybody knows it's coming. Everybody knows that. They got something interesting to look forward to the new new independent podcasts. And I'll get back to doing some other interviews with guests on my podcast. So looking forward to that as well. Cause you know, I just had about enough for you.

well, I mean, we're still gonna do a weekly show, so I don't know how much you've had enough of me, but yeah. And you know, on the new show, we'll probably bring in people as well. Kind of have we have on this one occasionally, but

Yeah. No, I think I think we we're gonna have a good time. The focus, you know, it took a little while I think for us to kind of figure out what the focus was, cuz the first time I, I had you on, on sir gene speaks it was all about weather, climate and electricity.

Yep.

We've deviated from that quite a bit.

Yeah. And, you know, we've really the way this show has ended up and the way the new show is gonna go is kind of a sandwich. If you will, you start off with a fairly serious topic, then we generally devolve into gun, talk something less serious, and then we move back to something more serious.

Yeah, it's interesting. I hadn't observed that, but I'll take your word for it. That we're, we're actually doing something like that, which, which is always good to have a description of what the podcast is. That's just a short one sentence description, kinda like I talk about my show unrelenting with Darrell and his other brother Darrell as basically the Seinfeld of podcasts, we literally start the show with no topics and no prep in mind. It's a podcast about nothing.

yeah, you know, I don't, I don't generally prep topics for the show today. I actually have a couple things that I wanna specifically talk about, but generally it's a free flowing conversation between us

Yeah. Well, free flowing, but with some ideas, I know I definitely have a few things I wanna talk about.

well, let's get into it.

All right, well let's, let's do it. Should we, should we get some segment music made as well, then? Not just intro music so that when we go into a new topic, there's a, some kind of a newsy segment sound.

We we'll we'll work on it. We'll work on

We'll just have a yeha or something like that

yeah. Or tele teletype going off in the background or something. Yeah,

or some guns shooting in the background. So let's talk about guns. That's a good topic.

Yeah. So, thanks to New York and the credit card industry, all new purchases of guns and ammo will be flagged on credit card purchases and tracked

which is interesting, but not surprising because of two things. One the government has realized that it has tremendous power through private industry to be, to be able to accomplish things there, forbidden from accomplishing. For, for example, let me just finish the thought here.

Well, it, it, it's something, it's something that they should have a fiduciary responsibility to you to not disclose

Yeah, they should, they shouldn't be collecting it. They shouldn't be storing it if they are collecting it and they sure should shouldn't have it organized in the way where they can provide that data. Literally again, without a warrant, there was no war issued for this because it was too broad. It was a voluntary, Hey, would FBI, would you like to have all the data on our customers? Cause we're a good bank. We'd like to be a good pet of the state.

mm-hmm

So total bullshit. And then of course all the stuff the FBI has done with Facebook no big surprise there. The stepping up of the the ATFs activities in going through and now photographing all receipt books of shops. Now they haven't done all the shops, but they're going through it under the guise of we're here to do a legal verification. But since we're here, we'll just go ahead and take photos of.

And then created database in the background that

And I think their thought is what we're not creating a database. So it's, there's nothing illegal about it. We're not, we're not banned from taking photos of this data. We're just banned from having a database. That's all, they'll just get some private company to do it for them, because that seems to be the common work around for all the government activities, which they're not supposed to engage in these days is to have a private company voluntarily do something that the government once done.

So it's gonna be interesting. So, so out outside of New York with the credit card industry, developing this tag, if you will, for this purchase. So it's gonna be interesting what stores say, you know, acquiesce and say, yes, this is X, Y or Z, because an argument could be made for academy or anything.

Anything that starts voluntary. Won't be, it'll be a requirement from a visa MasterCard.

agree. Completely agree. But what's interesting about this is that since it's the credit card industry doing this, this doesn't just affect the United States. This is international. This is an international standard that is being implemented.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It is.

So have you read much on new York's new gun law and plans that are going into place?

Would, no, I guess I haven't, if

New York is now going to require a background check for ammunition purchases and limit the number of rounds purchased at any given time and have a tracking system to track. How many rounds of ammunition you have.

so they've given up on guns and they're now trying to just focus on the ammunition part.

They they're moving heavily in that direction.

I think I have

they they've doubled down on the guns as well. They've

have the cover art for this.

I'm sorry.

I, I just found the cover art for this episode.

What's that? Oh, gotcha. perfect.

I, I bought some bacon broccoli salad and the price was 3 33.

3 30,

Uhhuh magic number. Anyway, so yeah, ammunition control. Well, talk a little more about that. And then I, I wanna talk about the original origins of the NFA

Yeah. So this New York law, you know, it, it, it doesn't prohibit importation into the state by individuals. So if you go to Pennsylvania and by ammo, you're not going to be affected. Like they're not gonna stop you at the border and go whoa, yet, yet. Very, it is definitely a slippery slope in that direction.

Well, is

mandatory waiting period?

limit on purchase at per store? So you just go to a bunch of stores then, or what

For now I, I, but it won't be that long before. Hey, you're over your monthly allotment of ammo purchases. What's going on.

do you already had your box through the month?

Exactly. How much are you shooting? Good. God.

Yeah, police officers are given 50 rounds a year. What, how do you need more than that?

Well, it, you know, this is one of those things that I absolutely just, if you, if people aren't seeing the writing on the wall of what's coming, man, you've gotta stock up. Now. You really need to,

All right. There you are shilling ammo,

I, Hey, I have no dog in the hunt other than wanting free people. I mean yeah. Free as in free and able to defend their country against enemies foreign and domestic. And right now it's looking more like domestic.

yeah, like it's not even China pulling strings it's it's the idiots and that are trying to deprive themselves and others of basic freedoms.

Yeah. So let's talk about the unconstitutional NFA that has never seen this Supreme court challenge yet.

So what I was under the impression of was the NFA had focused on the items that are currently banned, which would be machine guns, short barreled rifles, and shotguns and silencers. And then when I read a little bit of history, I was quite surprised and realized that, oh, well, this makes more sense now. So the, the NFA.

let's put that into a perspective. When was that $200 tax implemented

That was implemented in 1930. What? Four? Yeah. Which would make it about $3,000 right now. So imagine going to the store, when the price of a firearm back then was $25, like a decent firearm and then having to pay a $200 tax on a $25 firearm much like today going to the store by a, a decent firearm for 800 bucks.

yeah. So just to give a little bit of perspective here, based off of a quick inflation calculator, and this is not shadow stats, so it's probably worse than this in 1934, $200 is the equivalent of $4,422

So even more. Yeah, I was, I, when I did the bath real quickly, it just looked like about three grand. So four, four and a half grand, even better. So four and a half thousand dollars tax on what would be a few hundred dollars gun today. So you buy a, a Glock 22 for $600 for pistol and a tax on that would be four and a half thousand dollars. So that was their sort of realization that it's gonna be impossible to get an amendment to actually ban guns.

Well, and also the NFA originally was not going to ban any firearm that had military use. That was also a big part of the politics of even getting it through was it was not to remove military use firearms. So the reason why the short barrel shotgun thing stood even though during war war I, there was a trench gun that was used. That was essentially a short barreled shotgun is because when the court case went to the Supreme court, the guy who had brought the case was no longer with us.

Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. And so again, what I just want, you kind of wrap this up in the bow is that the original aim of the NFA was neither preventing people from having short rifles, because that makes no sense.

Yeah, quick two things on that, you know, the, the manufacturing band didn't come in until play till 86. So there's that the, so machine guns could be made in sold to civilians up until 1986. The that's when the real ban on machine guns, if you

Well, that's, that's an actual band. What I'm talking about is this original idea of using the tax because nobody in 1934, I think envisioned that the government could simply ban something like a machine gun, even, even as far as the machine gun. And that the people would stand for it. Like they knew there would be another, another revolutionary war in the United States. If that happened.

And, and this is, this is that Overton window moving where, you know what one generation tolerates the next accepts. And that's a problem. I don't know if I've told the story or not. And then I've got a question for you,

Mm-hmm

my grandfather, world war I veteran was working at Magnolia oil. In fact, I think I have, but he, they said, bill, you can't bring your gun to work anymore. You can't wear your gun to work. He was a few years away from retirement and he ended up quitting instead. So he left behind a pension and everything because he was not going to not carry his gun. And you know, it, it's amazing to me how. We've come full circle.

I think everybody would be

Yeah.

it's. It is pretty, pretty shameful to what the, the last few generations have allowed things to get to.

So Jean, let me ask you this. When did the tax stamps start having to go through background checks and law enforcement approval? Because I don't believe that was in the original NFA.

not, no, no,

think you could go to the post office and buy the tax stamp at

Exactly exactly that came out that came about during the 1960s and resulted in the gun control act of 1968, because part of what that gun control act needed to do was to clarify and put some parameters around exactly how far do the activities of the tax collectors need to go.

It's you know, it's a, it's a scary thing. But when we look at a couple recent Supreme court decisions, I think there's hope so when we look at Dobbs and we look at some of these others that have come out, that essentially say, you know, for the second amendment there has to be a history of regulation and tradition of regulation based off the time the amendment was written.

it's worse than that. It's not just people not willing to spend a million plus dollars. It's it's that?

a very low

Yeah. Yeah. Well, millions, but it's also that the machine does not let people do that. Meaning this has happened a number of times to cases that could have affect.

and you know,

And it prevents, it's a technique to simply prevent cases

a dirty

from going to a Supreme court. Well, it's cheating, but it's legal. I mean, there's nothing stopping them from doing it. And they've been doing it for literally the last 45 years.

Yeah. Well, we

time a cor a case gets too close. Well, what would be good is for somebody to have a standing that is unremovable so effectively, it has to be a state, not an individual that ends up suing them. It has to be a state which is affected by a regulation in a matter that if that, like, there, there shouldn't be a way to settle or for them to remove charges. It has to be a state, basically that comes up with a way saying that.

Yeah. So one thing that I think could trigger that outside of a state in Texas with the suppressor law, I think is getting a pretty good push there. But if you had additional people like manufacturers of suppressors under the Texas law, saying a suppressor made in Texas can be legally bought and sold. And as long as it stays in Texas borders because the government has no right to regulate commerce inside of Texas.

well, the, the ATFs already done that in Texas and the way that you deal with somebody without backing down is simply to burn them and their children and their wives houses to the ground. And in fact, their entire church because that'll teach.

Yeah. When they could have arrested him at Walmart,

What we're talking about, obviously. Is the what was the name of the guy

David Kresh and the branch Davidians in Waco, you know, it, it's sad. I I've gone to Mount Carmel and you know, there's nothing there at this point. And by the way, the Britishers IANS are still in the area. They're still a thing. And I'm not saying David crash was a good dude or anything else.

I heard a song. He did. He was actually not a bad singer.

you know, I, I, there, I thought about making some jokes regarding him and Tim pool at one point, but I'll leave it there.

mm-hmm

Um, but anyway, regardless, even if you think that he was a horrible human being one, he never faced any charges around the allegations of sexual assault. So there's that the only charges and the reason why the ATF went in there was around firearms. And, you know, they said, we've gotta go get him. We've gotta go do this. Well, he went to, it was very predictable. He went to the Walmart every Saturday morning. He was out there.

absolutely.

Also they used tanks against American civilians.

Mm-hmm Yeah there. I remember watching that live when it was happening and back then it was not, I don't think it seemed strange that there would need to be this much of a buildup to simply serve a a warrant or a yeah, an arrest warrant for somebody. I mean, it's kinda like isn't the goal here to just get him to come to court because it sure didn't seem like that was the goal. It seemed like the goal was for them to destroy that entire religion.

The goal was to take a group of what the government saw as dissidents in the,

Crazy gun nuts.

well, in that you gotta also remember and put this in context that this is after Ruby Ridge. So the Patriot movement and lots of subdivisions thereof were organizing and were, you know, conducting training and doing different things. And this made the Clinton administration very, very nervous. And literally, I think they chose the branch to Videon a because KSH was a little kooky I've watched some of his sermons and looked at things and I, I don't think he was

careful. Now you're gonna implicate.

no, I, I, dude, I've also, I've also read mine comp. That doesn't

Oh, you're not allowed to do either one of those things.

Okay. I've also read dos Cappe towel and lots of things, you know, that's this, you, I

no, no, no. You should leave it up to your betters to interpret that for you.

Huh. Anyway you know, watching some of Keisha's sermons and you know, the government line at the time was, oh, he thinks he's the Messiah. He thinks he's the second coming.

Mm-hmm

That's not what he says. He calls himself Messiah. He talks about saving his flock, but based off of, you know, king James and looking at strong concordance and everything else, you know, when we're called to be fishers of men and so on, that's literally the same sort of language that's being used there. So for him to say, I am a Messiah is not crazy. It's him saying? I'm trying to save people. I'm trying to bring them to my, what I believe is my religious views. That's very different

it's a little more

I'm the second coming of Christ.

I think Messiah in, in it has to include the fact that it is not him as just the person making rational decisions that rather he has been inhabited by and guided by holy spirit.

A agreed. But my, my point is he was the government's claim was that he was saying, he's the second coming of

even if

And that was

what, how does that automatically mean? You have to shoot the guy with a tank.

the well, but they were,

is the coming of Christ in the us turn into the biggest raid on a us citizens in the history of the us,

yeah, but the, the parallel and the, the propaganda that the government was issuing at the time was trying to tie him more to like Jim Jones. And, you know, this is a crazy cult. That's what they were trying to do. And when you look back at it, they were a little kooky, but I wouldn't put 'em in the same category,

Yeah. And I think crazy cults are sort of self

self isolation.

you know, they like the guys with the Nike shoes that were waiting for the ha comic to come by.

Well, and yeah.

know, it's a cult, they

Are the people who wear Adidas,

themselves. Or now that's a country. That's not a cult. That's an entire nation with sovereignty. The ideas track suit nation. If you will Uhhuh

yeah.

you better watch it there. Boy,

You know, what's funny about this entire thing. It's not really funny, but it's, it's disparaging and sad is that the sheriff at the time knew knew the DNS knew him well. And, you know, Waco is a pretty conservative area. It's it's even to this day,

Boy. There's a lot of billboards up there for life begins. Its conception.

well sons of Confederate veterans still have a Confederate battle flag. Our battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia flying right off I, 35. The John Birch society has a pretty active chapter there. I mean, it's a conservative area. Anyway, the sheriff knew the D Videon pretty well. And one of his arguments at the time that he made on the local news media is this didn't have to happen. They could have handed me the warrant and I could have walked up there and he would've walked out with me.

absolutely. Yeah. Which incidentally is exactly how the game fire cry five starts off when you're a deputy and you're showing up to deliver a warrant and take the leader of a religious group in with you. And it doesn't go so well.

Well, anyway, when the ATF showed up They did so in a very bombastic way, I, I truly believe they fired first. You had the same sniper who killed Randy Weaver's wife and son involved. You know, it was just a

I was that Asian guy, right?

Yep. Who, God, I'm gonna butcher's name. I'm trying to remember what it was anyway. People can Google it. It's he? Not a good, not a good dude. Sir. No, that was the guy who shot Reagan, but

No, that's, that's a

no,

guy, man.

That

so happened. It was the same guy he was on the

know, you know,

I remember Saturday night live did a, a bit, many years ago back when they were actually funny on or man, no, it wasn't Saturday night live. What am I saying? It was mad. TV did a bit,

oh, mad

they actually were funny. They were very politically incorrect for almost their entire run dated a bit on Z Zapruder. You know, the guy who filmed the Kennedy Associa and like, discovering all these other little eight millimeter films that the guy filmed.

mm-hmm

And they had like the, I mean, it, I can't remember what all of 'em were, but there was like a dozen different assassination going all the way back to the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. Like the guy just happened to have been at each of these locations with his camera running,

you, you know, the history of the Lincoln assassination

get what's coming to him.

agreed. But John Wilkes booth was not a lone actor. There were actually others who were supposed to take out grant at the same time

Really?

out

Well, that'll, that'll happen.

now. So it was supposed to be coordinated attack.

Hmm. I just not aware of that.

Yep.

So what was the goal then?

To de, to decapitate the tyrannical monster of then the quote unquote legitimate United States government that not only waged a illegal war, but suspended Haas Corpus to prevent Maryland from succeeding and jailed political opponents illegally and without charges.

mm-hmm well, the, you know, the victors get to write the history books.

Yeah. And, you know, there, there are some people who try and present ancillary views to history and they always get labeled crazy. David Irving is a great example, which I'm not saying David Irving's histories of world war II are completely accurate, but you know, he his first work, when he was talking about the fire bombing of Dresden was not even questioned.

Yeah, that's true.

So on, on my bookshelf, one of the things that my parents gave me that is pretty interesting. It was written. In the 1890s is is a volume of war of rebellion and it's nothing but the historical records from the time. So what I have is the, and this is a first first draft or a first printing original copy of that that's pretty rare. But anyway, the one I have is the army of Northern Louisiana their correspondence and orders at the time. And it's 2000 pages long. It's nothing but that.

Well, and I think I told you what I remember seeing at, at my parents' house when I was a kid was a kind of a coffee tabled book that was newspaper articles. So it was basically, you know, photographs of the front pages of newspapers in the south, before and during and right after the civil war.

Mm-hmm

so it was, it was a sort of civil war from the perspective of people living through it rather than civil war academically after the fact.

well, and, but keep in mind with that newspapers up until.

always gonna be biased. No matter what side, but, but I think that's true of anything. I mean, reporting what the orders were is probably about as unbiased as you can get, but virtually anything that anybody describes an event as is going to imply a certain amount of bias from their perspective. That's why I always kind of with a big smile on my face, always referred to the American civil or the the civil war as the the war in Northern aggression.

yeah. So on that bias note, one thing I will say that this was something that from my formative years really stuck out in has stuck with me when the us invaded Iraq in 2000 and three the headlines on CNN and,

you mean the second time? The us invaded

Second time. The headlines in CNN and Fox said war in Iraq and Al Jazeera had. On war on Iraq, that's literally one letter difference, but an entirely different meaning.

yeah. And it wasn't even the war on Iraq, as much as I think it was a war on on the middle east in general. I think that there was a lot of a lot of pent up, maybe not very well pent up frustration from 2001. And the, I think the majority of the us public would've supported a war with any of those countries, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, whatever the country, the government said was responsible. The American public would've been right behind and, and happy to go kick some ass,

yeah. Well, all, all I can say is WTC seven and at the very least our government allowed it to happen if we're not absolutely involved. And when you think of the fact that the hijackers, you know, some fur of them were Saudi Arabian yet we didn't go there, you know,

And the only planes allowed to fly in us aerospace immediately there after were Saudi Arabian planes

the bin Laden family got out.

not just, there was a lot of planes that

But I'm just saying the they're not Saudi Arabian. So the bin lions did get out.

belongs are Saudi Arabian. What are you talking about?

Okay. The bin Ladens reside in several countries, but sure.

The bin Laden family is direct relative of the current ruler of Saudi Arabia. The bin Laden family are Saudis.

Yeah. And you know, the bin Ladens and the house of sod and the Bush family were real tight. Bush family of secrets is a great book that outlines the relationship there.

absolutely. Yeah. That's

and you know, people, people who sit there and say, oh, the government would never do that. And Bush would never be involved with something like that. You gotta remember that his grandfather literally tried to overthrow the government. Prescott Bush was part of a cabal that was going to try and stage a military co of the us government in the

Mm-hmm

That's not fiction. That's not debatable smiley Butler because of that Marine and him saying no. And uncovering it is the only reason that didn't happen. They chose the wrong Marine Corps general to try and use to prop up and have a military coup in the United States.

Well, they figured out another way the grandkid

Yeah.

and, and, and great grandkid.

Yeah.

Now it it's I, I think it's the thing that people have to remember is that when somebody become. Well known, whether it's as a politician or a movie actor or the queen of England or anything, ultimately they're humans and they're human foibles and personality traits negative some of the time, maybe positive some time they don't disappear. They're still there. So we, we hope that for one type of position, at least in this country, that people are able to control their personalities.

she was a prosecutor.

a hatred of Jones. Yeah, she was, she was doing more of that work of the prosecutor than the prosecutor was that, and I'm sure in her mind she was completely in control and, you know, I'm sure if she doesn't interview in the future, say, yeah, it was really hard for me to try and be as impartial as I was. But I think I succeeded because I was able to separate my personal disdain for. Absolutely horrible man, responsible for so much hatred in the world. From my job as a judge.

As soon as she's off the bench

mm-hmm

book deal. I

oh, she probably already has a book deal. Yeah. Yeah. Well remember that you know, while people convicted of a crime are not allowed to profit on book deals, people that were involved in catching them and prosecuting them, absolutely get book deals. I remember that with Kevin Mitnick

Oh yeah.

where the guy that Kevin not really. I mean, I've been in the same event with him. I maybe stood 10 feet away, but I've never talked to him.

So Kevin Mitnick was a somewhat of a childhood hero for me,

Mm-hmm

you know?

You had thick glasses as well.

no, actually I have, I don't wear glasses at all, so I have actually very good vision. Thank you. But no, Mitnick was definitely a, a hero of mine reading about his exploits and you know, it, Kevin Mitnick is not a technical guy. He, he really isn't a hacker. He's a social engineer and anyway,

Yeah, no, that was totally true. But do you remember the, the whole story of the why he ended up getting caught?

I maybe don't remember the details on exactly why he got caught. I remember the details around the phone, freaking and the exploits and things like that. I don't know that I remember the details on why he got caught.

Yeah. Well, he got caught because he made fun of a security professional. And the thing that you have to remember is a security professional, unlike a hacker or a security interested person has a multimillion dollar budget behind them. And he can use that budget to do things that most people can't. So in the sense, I think that was the misjudgment that Kevin had was that

I, I think that was more true in the nineties. I think there's a lot more control now. I mean, I had a pretty damn big budget working for the company I worked for and I was pretty constrained on the types of tools and activities I could use. Now that said, I, at one point in time I had at, before I left, I had 35 contractors reporting to me that I could direct to do anything I wanted and they were all. And when I say contractors, I'm not talking low level it guys, these were.

Yeah, well, the PO the point of a big budget is it allows you to buy airplane tickets. It lets you do things that most people aren't gonna spend money to do.

Oh yeah. Well,

so, you know, in, in the end it became easier to set him up and then make sure that the feds were there rather than you know, the Fed's actually getting him on their own.

yeah. I don't know why there wasn't a Kevin Mitnick movie, you know, you've got catchman, if you can and stuff

Yeah. There are, there probably will be

there was a made for TV one in the nineties, but that doesn't really count.

no, no, no, but I remember all those free Kevin stickers and everything.

Oh yeah,

That was a, that was a thing. Yeah, I think that a lot of, a lot of what people learned from him was well, maybe not a lot, but some of the things they learned from him was that just because someone's wearing a uniform doesn't mean you should believe them.

absolutely. Yeah, I, I I've definitely used some of his social engineering techniques and some pen tests in the past.

Yeah,

way to get initial foothold. And if you think about it, modern fishing is just an extension of what he did early on, especially the targeted stuff. But

definitely the case. And there's I mean, some of this stuff I think is somewhat obvious, but some of it was definitely kind of brought to the forefront by Kevin and a lot of the other people that specialized on really doing social engineering rather than being technically good.

so Jean, have you ever read none dare call it conspiracy.

no,

So

is this the book of the week?

well, it's an old recommendation of mine. So if you read the creature from Jeal island is a more detailed account and it's way thicker, and we will probably make your eyes glow glaze over because of all the facts that are presented to you. But it it's kinda like Anthem for iron Rand. None dare call it. Conspiracy is a good introductory book to to that. It was put out actually in the seventies before the creature from Jack island or anything else.

What's it about?

well, it's about the federal reserve and the federal reserve act and how the central banks are de debating our currency. How every dollar of U every dollar,

there. It's their currency. It's not our currency.

it is and every dollar that is in existence today is backed by debt. So if you were to pay off all the debt that is owed in us dollars, you would have no us dollars.

yeah,

And literally, I

is. It's a zero sum system. Yep.

yes. So, and what, what is insane is when you look at our foreign aid and our foreign aid packages, and the reason why we're propping up regimes through the IMF and everything else, you know, it, it's a pretty big departure from the Britain woods agreement. And really it was Nixon that kind of broke the us part of the Britain woods agreement. But we continued to use us dollars in the IMF and it it's all resulted in us being in a very interesting position.

Well, you think about it. Really what Fiat currency is are a, a bunch of IUs it's a, it's actually kinda ingenious if you think about it, because rather than being a system that is backed by something that everybody wants, it is a system that is backed by something that everybody promises. So it, it, it can be expanded, infinitely and does not require for there to be an infinite amount of precious metals or anything else available in order to keep expanding the system.

So the interesting thing there though is in history, anytime you've had fractional reserve banking, and at this point we're beyond that there is no fractional reserve. You

infinite fractional reserve banking,

I'm sorry.

infinite fractional reserve banking.

exactly. The problem is you end up with too much ch money chasing, chasing too Fu goods. You end up with inflation and the house of cards ends up collapsing on itself. And you know, we, during the Imar Republic, the day over day, the height of inflation during the Imar Republic was 40 some odd percent. So you go by a

22.

right? But we're getting close. This is my point.

exactly right.

So the VOR Republic, the day over day inflation rate was 40%. So if you paid a dollar for a loaf of bread, the next day, it would be a dollar 40 and so on. That's where you end up with wheelbarrows of money to go pay off something. That's where you end up with African republics, having billion notes or Koreans and the yin you know, being what it is.

Well, that that's true. The, I think inflation, it has some pros and it has some cons. But I think that under if you maintain the system working, not freeform, but actually as a control system, then the the Fiat currency system, I think is a pretty, I don't know. I'm I'm not gonna say like, yes, we should have it.

so what I'll say is I will agree that in a modern world, a Fiat currency can be. I'm gonna piss off a lot of people here. So one group knows nothing about the Fiat system. The other group thinks the Fiat system is just trash. And then you have the Bitcoin Bitcoiners who sit there and say, Bitcoin isn't Fiat. Well by ne by definition is yes, you have some proof of work and things that have to go through to create Bitcoin is inherently deflationary, which I think is somewhat problematic.

it's beyond hockey stick. Yeah. Although to be fair, that, that, that completely vertical segment that you see in there was actually a change in, in definition. Not, not a,

it was a change in the rules around checking. Yes.

the savings. Yeah.

Savings accounts, basically being able to use be used as checking and the M one money stock talks about money and circulation. So not invested, not, not locked away. Now the savings accounts can be used this way, but like, if you have something in a CD or something that has you, you can't access that money for a period of time. It is not counted in that. So. I I, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe like savings in 401ks is not counted in that.

Well, 401k isn't but savings is now.

is now. Yes. And that's where that vertical hockey stick came from. Which how disappointing is it that with that rule change, that's all that it went up,

well, that's one way to look at it. That's true.

just

how little money is in,

yes. In

savings accounts don't really make a whole lot of sense. It's basically the most liquid form of investment that you can have. Cause what, what does it paid? Like half a percent

if that yeah, I mean, I, I,

I remember back when they actually paid like five, 6%, but

I remember two and a half as a kid. But you know, I basically, all I keep in savings is emergency monies. Everything else is in money market or something else or hard assets. So

Yeah. So

to stay liquid and that's about it.

Tim Cass had an episode where they talked about the you know, the, I guess it was based on an article that someone wrote where she honestly, they thought admitted to the fact that as a liberal. She probably would only survive a week if there was an actual,

Yeah. I saw

civil war. Right. And in that conversation, in that whole segment, they talked about, well, you know what, how do you do it? And you gotta raise your own chickens. Cuz Tim likes chickens and all that good stuff. And they were talking about how well, you know, you can't use credit cards anymore. You, so you gotta have cash. And then people, well cash. Isn't gonna do you any good? You really? What you need are tradeable commodities.

need it.

well, those people, I guess won't stick around for long. So there's a lot of alcohol. You're definitely gonna need to trade some whiskey for sure. But the one thing that never came up and I, I, I kept waiting for 'em to mention it and see how they would address it. And it never came up is Bitcoin. Cuz Bitcoin is completely useless when there's no electricity.

when there's no internet. I mean, even if you

yeah. There's no internet. There's no

have the network.

Well, they were talking about a state where there's no running water. So this is well beyond no.

yeah. There's no way to update the ledger. There's no way to have a

you're done. So that's why I it's hilarious to me every time somebody, and, and again, I buy Bitcoin on a regular basis. I'm a buying hold guy. It's never gonna get sold unless it hits a million per Bitcoin. That's my self point. So it's basically never gonna get sold cuz Bitcoin's not likely to over hit him. So consequently like even though I buy it, I buy a little bit of it every month. But that's, to me it's like buying a lottery ticket, right? You don't buy, 'em expecting to win.

mm-hmm well, what I'd say is that, you know, the people who say, oh, it's a hedge against inflation. Well, as we see inflation go up, what do we see?

goes down. Yeah,

and the reason why is because there were people who were substantially leveraged in Bitcoin and as things get more expensive, then have to sell off. So then that naturally drops the price. So Bitcoin is not magical. It, it is not a magical hedge against inflation. It is not a hard currency,

You know what hasn't dropped in price

Fiat currency. What's that?

the Rubal. No, I'm just kidding. I, I, I have to say that. No, no. What I was gonna say is fine. Art, fine. Art has not dropped in price

it, it will though it

No, because rich people, people that can afford to have a you know, $300,000 painting in their house are not being affected in the same way. As the average American is who had maybe a thousand bucks of Bitcoin and now needs a thousand dollars to pay for the car getting fixed

yeah. I would say buy $300,000 worth of ammo before you buy a painting, but whatever, you know, what's interesting though. I did

Amma's depreciating now

From its height.

not a, not a good hold.

When the shit hits the fan, we'll see. So I did see an interesting report that was showing that the Rubal is becoming the strongest currency,

And that's a

relative terms in Europe

I've yes, I've, I've, I've watched a Russian news report talking about how the whatever the equivalent of the federal reserve in Russia is, you know, the, the guys that, that are tracking all this stuff are very concerned about the fact that the Rubal is so damn strong because they need it to be weaker, to sell better.

To

It's it's, it's starting to hurt exports.

Yep. So, another thing have you noticed a few names coming up lately?

You mean like common kids' names or what?

No. No, no. Like, names from the nineties. So with queen dying and Charles the third taking the throne,

Oh yes. The king. Yeah. Well, I guess that'll take a while for the coordination.

Well, he's still technically king at this point, but you remember the DJ in the UK BBC? What was his name?

The DJ you mean the, the, the, the guy that has a child molester DJ, or

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Oh yeah. Yeah. What was his name?

I'm blanking right now. I

I know he was a child molester, so I know who you're talking about, but I, I can't recall his name. What, what what's. Okay. What's the point?

well, people are just waking up to this. So this is ILA, Jeffrey Epstein. Charles ties to Jeffrey Epstein are coming back. This DJ that I can't remember the name of, he wanted to be Williams godfather at one point in time, this, this man that I'm now blanking on his name, even though I was about to say it, he he was convicted of 78 different what is it? Sexual molests, including the rape of an eight year old. Oh man, I gotta go to my Google history.

Would you like to share your entire go history with us?

dude, I wouldn't sure you say Google a main search history. Let me phrase, Jimmy SEL, Jimmy SEL.

Jimmy SRO. Yeah.

So people are putting out all these memes and it's like, where the fuck have you been? This was brought up by Alex Jones and by everybody in fucking 2000 man, you know, people have to wake

Jones should just wear a t-shirt that says Alex Jones was right.

He should, he said

Mm-hmm

underneath it should say, give it five years.

mm-hmm

Anyway, Jimmy SEL, Jimmy SEL is being brought up in being meed and it's gaining traction. And I, I kind of wonder, you know, with the, the queen then finally admitting that the queen is dead. And who the fuck believes that she hung on to put in that last prime minister?

I believe it.

No,

don't know if she's dead right now.

no,

I think she's just retiring. No, you, you wait, you, you don't, you don't think that the lizard people live for at least 150 years?

I, I think she's been dead for a while, but yeah.

No, I'm I,

So Jean is now David Ike.

that I'm really not positive. She's dead.

So Jean so you're going the crack pot way now. Okay.

I don't see how that's the crack pot way.

I, I don't know. I

me proof. Show me show me a body. I don't see a body habeas

will here in a few days, they're

They'll show a plastic mockup. That's not gonna be her. No, she's finally retired from that post. She's probably sitting in Bermuda or someplace enjoying her retirement years. Next 50 or 60 of them.

or on the Iowa man,

Yeah, there

which given this conversation people might understand is significant.

Mm-hmm

Uh huh.

well, I don't know if that's such a great retirement place, but

Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, it's gonna be interesting, but you know, things that were brought up in my circles growing up and things that I've known about for a long time, people are acting like our new revelations and a whole new generation is getting,

Well, that's the curse that you have that I have as well is seeing things early on before the majority of the people around have any clue whatsoever. And then they think we're the crazy ones.

for a while and then it's like, holy shit. You were right. Yeah.

oh yeah. They'll say holy shit. You're right. That COVID thing. Yeah. That's totally government control, but this Ukraine thing, no, that's totally different. Nope. We're we're on the right side of this one. Yeah. Okay.

yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's just, I think in so many ways, a few things are coming to fruition that are just such jump the shark moments that,

idea that rich people would want to have sex with children should not be a surprise to anybody because what, what does being rich mean? It means you get to break rules. That society sets up without

and I, I, I think that a lot of the, the. Pedophilia we see in the periphery around people like Charles in Jimmy salal and Jeffrey Epstein, you know, they are the lower level people who got caught. And I, I think that if you look at, if you wanna go full blown conspiracy theory mode, I think at the very least, even if they are not maps, minor attractive persons, I, I, I think that they are coerced into it as a control point

Yeah, I dunno how course they were in. I mean, I, I think either you're into kids or you're not into kids, but I also have a, and I've talked about this before. I also have a problem with Americans just thinking that the American definition of 18 as an adult somehow is universal and should be taken forever. You know, when Epstein had well, again, bill Clinton on his island, what? Three, five times. And when, when bill was screwing,

35 times. We don't know how many times he

Well, he never got off the plane, just like he didn't inhale. Well, I went there, but I didn't get off the plane.

It depends on what your definition of is, is.

Is is exactly, but you know, somebody, a rich dude having sex with a 17 year old, I'm sorry, that's not pedophilia. That's a rich dude having sex with a 17 year old,

Well, and you know what I would say there is my grandmother

year old's already sent in for Christ's sakes.

so what I'd say is, you know, my grandmother got married at 16 and started having kids. I think that, you

Her husband must have been a pedophile.

Yeah, well, no, it was just the south at the time, but

got that pedophilia gene in your jeans. Don't you?

What I would say is that there there's a line between, and, and, you know, again, the, the line being 18 is a little ridiculous.

arbitrary.

Well, but you have to have an age of majority and there has to be things tied to that. I don't know that sexual relations necessarily should, but where do you draw that line? Do you draw the line in age difference? So if a 50 year old wants to screw a 20 year old, is that a problem? You

Hey now. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. There's no problem at all with that legally or morally, it's the best way for the 20 year old to get a free college education.

Screw your student loans,

Mm-hmm

Yeah. Well, you know, again, it's, it's an it's. It's one of those things that there, there has to be a social enforcement and that social enforcement needs to be important. But there has to be a bright line legally where, you know, it's okay or not.

That's what being rich allows you to do is to draw your own line.

yeah, but again, I, like you said, I, I don't prince Charles or

Let's say there's no laws, there's no punishments. You could do whatever you want, be totally hedonistic. And you just ask people on the survey and you said what? Like, just think back through your life. You know, if you're, let's say you're a male, right? So hopefully you can remember back to what you felt like in your thirties, your twenties, your, your teen years at which point in your life did. Did you wanna bang like a 20 year old?

okay.

Well, gimme an answer. I mean, pretend you pretend it's not the truth, if that helps you sleep better.

No, I mean, that I wanted to bang a 20 year old I don't know, since I was 12

Exactly you. Okay. 12, 13, right around there for most boys that and those ages could change over time, but at least in my recollection, right. That's when you started having those, those posters up of fair faucet and stuff

Yeah,

in my day.

I definitely had a Jerry or Ryan poster at one point in

There you go. There you go. Yeah, that, that would be the equivalent. So, and because at that

know was seven of nine

star Trek nerd, so I know, I know, I know. Right. And she hated it and,

I loved it.

Oh yeah, totally, totally. Apparently that well we could talk about star Trek, another episode, but my point is, okay, so you're at 13, you are hot for, you know, 20 year olds in in movies, television, whatever, knowing full well as a, a 12, 13 year old boy, you're never in, in hell ever gonna get to bang one of those, but you'd sure like to, right. So what is wrong then? Legally with a 20 year old saying, yeah, I, I think you're kind of cute too. I'll bang you.

Yeah, because there's, I'm not fully developed and I can't make irrational decision on my

What is the rational decision that is necessary for sex? It's literally the oldest interaction that we have. as an animal that it all our ancestors have had to be successful at

And this is again where that line falls is. Interesting. Now I'd say that parental consent laws come into play here, you know, and yeah, it could be set up for abuse. Lots of things

mm-hmm mm-hmm

that I, I would agree with you that the majority of the time it's not actual abuse, but the problem is

what I, what I think is a problem is any kind of forced sexual relationship at any age. I don't care what age it is.

a hundred percent.

You know, you, you got a grandma, you know, being forced to have sex with a, a, you know, a 20 year old hunky dude.

happen.

Yeah. Unless she's got a lot of money, but

well, then the coercion is on the other

but he is a coercion though. It's not really coercion. So, so, but my point is, you know, relationships that have that, that are forced, relationships are not healthy. They're not good and potentially should be illegal, but relationships that are not coerced should have no problem. And then you're like, well, what about these predators? You know, like they know how to give the kid the candy to the kids to entice 'em to have sex. Yeah. There's a problem there.

but should society accept? That is the question.

why would it not is my question.

because it's rife for abuse,

So was having a gun let's ban all guns,

I think there's a

same argument, same argument.

we come from, so when you look at the age of consent laws in Europe and so on, they're drastically different than the

drastically different. I mean, Vatican used to be no. And then finally they bumped it up to 12,

yeah. Irony of ironies. Anyway,

that's a city full of full of people not having sex.

well, it's a city full of, you know, maps.

Mm-hmm yep.

I, I would say at, you know, at least I think we can agree that if someone has not had onset of puberty, that that should be at least a very

genuine. Yeah. That's genuine, you know, kid porn kind of territory. That's that's real pedophilia is pre puberty.

Well, and one could argue that there could be a overdeveloped 16 year old that is, you know, more developed than a said 22 year old, as far as assets, that would be attractive and so on. But there, there has to be that bright

there are 16 year olds, much more mature mentally than 22 year olds.

Very few. I mean, you, you you're, you're, you're talking bell curve analysis.

one of 'em. Okay. All right.

Hey man. You know what? I I've, I've lived an interesting life. I, I'm very thankful for the experiences I've had in my life. And a lot of 'em were before I was 20. And I, I, I can recognize that that's true, but how do you apply bell curve statistics and those questions of variability to the law? I don't think you can. And that that's the problem I see there.

yeah. So should we have laws that are essentially trying to address the failures of parenting?

Well, you know,

I can't convince my 16 year old daughter not to have sex. She just refuses to, Hey, let's put a, let's put a chastity law in place.

I, I get you there, but let me ask you this. So how do you write the law to say that what's okay. And what's not because I knew a girl.

that I do it. You, you have a contract

Okay. Well, I knew a girl in high school. So when we're talking about the puberty

mm-hmm.

that because she was a athlete and everything else, very low body fat didn't have a period until after she was 17, you know? So I, I just don't know how you write that law, man. That makes any sense

You don't, that's my point. You're making my point. These are territories that need to be left to the parents, not the legal system.

And I would generally agree that you cannot more, you cannot regulate morality successfully,

Mm-hmm

but I don't know how willing society is or I am for that matter to take that to the nth degree. But that said this current generation just isn't having sex. So, you know, I, I

well, that's not strictly true. The, the boys aren't having sex, the girls are still having

who knew no, no, no. They are so less interested.

Well in the boys, their age, yes.

There's a big drop off in general, man.

of, of interest in sex with completely feminized males. Yes. That is true

there. There's lots of stuff. I mean the actual age of loss of virginity is in is instead of like previous generations declining, this one's actually growing as

for males. It's over 20. Now.

No, it's not. It's higher than that average age is like 25,

over 20 what's higher than over 20 math major.

I I'm saying it's not like 20, I'm moving

said it's over 20 and you're saying, no, it's not. It's more than that.

I mean

it's more than over 20

a hundred based off of that statement, but the sentiment of your, it is a true statement, but that's like saying, yeah, you know,

used to be under 20 back in the day.

Yeah, absolutely. But now it's starting to push closer to 30.

yeah. So, but again, for males, not for females

I think the age average is still moving upwards because yeah, there's, there's some of those

is moving up. It is moving up,

out, but yeah, it there's just a lot less sex

what there's a lot of, a lot more of happening is males are just playing video games instead of having sex. They're just not having sex. Girls are playing some video games, but not as much, but what they are doing a lot more of is engaging in same sex relationships and engaging in relationships with much older men who both have the money and the testosterone in them to be able to be interested in these girls.

Well, and you know, one of the things you're seeing in boys is, and you could track it up to stra or anything, but I see it in, you know, kids that I'm around is just a dramatic, dramatic difference in attitude from when I was a kid,

Mm-hmm

know, whether it's getting your driver's license

Well, half of 'em are drugged out

well, even those that aren't

by their parents.

even those that aren't because I can think of several specific examples that obviously I'm not gonna dogs here, but. You know, will go do activities with their friends and things like that. But aren't really interested in

freedom

or

or freedom.

Or or girls just,

Mm-hmm

nah, not worth it, you know, that not worth it. Thing comes into play a lot these days, which is a very interesting pattern of thought to

now I, I love video games, you know, I'm a definitely a gamer, but I will say, I think that is a an out cropping, a end result of a video game type mentality, because it, video games teach you a lot of things. Some of 'em, you know, are positive. Some of 'em are not so positive. One of the things that's not positive is they teach you that that you can always, you know, after you die, you can always respond

You can do it differently

the complete fear of of the one time in your dead mentality that I had as a kid is gone for most of these kids, cuz they think everything's a respond. And it's not in real life. You, you don't get to respond in real life. That's a negative effect coming from video games. But one of the other ones, like you mentioned is this idea that it, it really teaches people to start calculating the risk reward scenarios on every single action they do.

Well, and the history has been that the majority of males throughout history have not been successful at reproduction. The vast majority it's been the top 20, 25% that are successful from a evolutionary standpoint and the top 30 that actually even do so significantly less than half of all male males throughout history, reproduced.

Yeah. And so maybe we're just seeing the, the normalcy that was to some extent broken during the aftermath of world war II, where a lot of males died and then, you know, there weren't many to go around and women wanted to make sure that they grabbed the man while they were still one available that were going back to a point which historically has existed where the majority of males never reproduce.

I hadn't considered it in that term that the death toll from war, not just war II, but war I war II back to back produced successive generations, where there were a lot fewer males. That is an interesting point.

It made competition be a lot more strong for the females. Not, or for the males I should say by the females.

Right? Which, and,

which has historically not been the case.

to be

women

to be clear human reproduction is inherently a female decision. It, it is the females choosing the males, not the other way around

Oh yeah. Yeah. Always, always has been. It's not true for every species, but in humans it is for sure.

well, and you could, Peterson makes this argument that you could say that the patriarchy or any competence hierarchy is a outgrowth of female selection and an outsourcing of that

It that's absolutely true because for a hierarchy to exist, there has to be people that follow those rules and the females are the ones that get to either follow or not follow those rules. And they absolutely do the females place. Males in these hierarchical categories. It's not the males themselves, males themselves. Mostly don't give a shit. I mean, I've sat and had chats and drinks with B literally billionaires and I've had the, the same.

Hm.

literally for most guys, your quote unquote social status, doesn't matter. The only reason most guys live in big houses is because that's what the wife wants in order to appear like their lifestyle is successful. Most guys wear fancy clothes for the exact same reason.

gee, thanks gene.

What do well, I was referring to somebody else that we both know, but okay.

that? We both know. Okay.

Mm-hmm but anyway, the point is that women,

small social circle.

that people we both know. Okay, well maybe, yeah. I don't think you've ever met him, but you certainly know of him, but either way there are, there are plenty of guys that spend the money that they do. Completely based on the fact that this is what they either think, or this is what they've been told that they need to do to make their woman happy.

Mm, well, and you know, you have that entire saying of happy

women, there would be no wars guaranteed.

I don't know about that

Oh, absolutely. Women have been the cause of every, every war that's ever happened.

well, we know of at least one woman in history that was directly the cause of war. Yes, absolutely. The face that lost launched a thousand ships.

yeah,

Yeah. So before we get labeled this week in misogyny

that's a great show title, this miso.

Yeah.

So we went from pedophilia to misogyny. Is that what we did?

you pretty much. Yeah.

All right.

Oh man. You know, it's interesting. I was talking to a, a, a friend of mine and PhD and everything else. And,

Does he drive truck

She, and she you know, very handy, wants to do stuff and her father-in-law just laughs at it and thinks it's ridiculous. And I'm like, oh, you know, I

she wants to do stuff. Like what kind of stuff does she want to

like go fix the dishwasher, take the tools and go fix it. She's the handy

yeah. Girls ought to do that kinda stuff. My favorite character absolutely favorite character in the TV show. Big love, which was a great TV show. If anybody hadn't seen it bill Pullman is that the guy's name was in it. But my favorite character was the Chloe SOGE was the actress who played the character, the, the middle wife, because she was always the one doing all the handy work. Like she was the one climbing the roof to fix some tiles that, that were broken.

well, I think there are some men who dream of that type of

I would love for my, yeah, like me right here, hand going up. I always enjoyed when, so, okay. Here's the thing I had to get past my, my security in myself to be able to do that because while there are certain, I think genetic genetically motivated aspects to being a male that makes you want to be the provider makes you want to do things that will make your wife go, oh, thanks for doing that.

and the protector and all that.

Yeah. All that. And I definitely experienced that. And then, and then I, you know, was married for enough years to go. Yeah, that's fine. You can fix it. and That I, when I watched a TV show, I'm like, oh, he's got the perfect life. He's got three wives. And each one specializes in a different thing. This is ideal. This is, this is really what we ought to have.

You know, I had a thought the other day. So before I give my thought, you thinking that having three wives would be paradise, isn't saying to me, I think one is more than enough,

that's, you're thinking of it wrong. You're thinking from a satisfying her perspective.

Uhhuh.

I'm thinking of it from a completely istic hedonistic satisfying me perspective.

Until they all sync up. Anyway. So with the mRNA shot and you look at liberals and they're just insanity, you know, if you read Margaret app woods, the hand Maiden's tale that shot could have been the impetus.

Mm-hmm mm-hmm

And, you know, it kind of makes me wonder if there is not this sick element to, to the people who often prescribe, you know, it's what you say about yourself is what you say about me is what you say about yourself,

What is it? The handoff guilt of, I don't know what the fuck it

Yeah. I don't know the Dutch, but the, the, the point is the, the left. I won't call 'em liberals cuz you and I are actually real liberals. But

that's true. We are true classical liberals here.

the, the there's this group of people who want to project onto Christians and onto the real liberals in the world, this dominance dominant submission and quite frankly, masochistic worldview that I don't think we really have to an extent. I know you and I both have our own personal tendencies, but that's neither here nor there, but I'm talking about from a societal standpoint and I don't know, man, a lot of the issues with that RNA shot it. It it's just interesting.

so I've never read the novel. I, I thoroughly enjoyed the first movie. Cuz they had a hot actress in this. No, the first movie.

What was the first movie?

Have you never seen the movie in a handmaid tale?

No.

No, it's really good. It has a hot actress in it.

Okay,

so first of all, the phrase is yeah, I'm not gonna pronounce it. It has way too many letters next to each other that I'm not sure how to pronounce what he, Zach Benzel met Yor de health,

close

it? Yeah. What you said about yourself with your head in health? So I Googled that and it came up with, what is the Dutch phrase? Adam frequently refers to That was literally the first Google

you go.

thing. No, the movie I think it came out probably late nineties.

Okay.

And it had Natasha Hendrickson that who's hot or at least back in the nineties, she was, oh, holy shit. Came out in 1990. Wow. So it wasn't even in the late nineties, it was the literally 1990.

Hmm.

So yeah, I I thought that was pretty good flick. I did not see the TV show partly because I don't really like the actress that that's in the main role. I just think she's super ugly and

I mean, she she's like a CA Cortez she's next door, you

No, it's just way ugly. Are you kidding? Don't be comparing her to AOC AOC fucking high compared to her

You have

dude. This

we know Gene's type

like she literally looks like the prototypical witch from the 17 hundreds. She's got a completely asymmetric face with a small mouth, small chin and the bulging eyes and the big crooked nose. I mean, I'm sorry. I don't see how you can compare that to the beauty of AOC. Who's in the cover of Esquire magazine.

oh my God. Cuz I just don't I don't get it. I don't find, I mean, head down. Sure.

You just don't like the big booty Latina.

no, like I said, head down. I'm good with it's just, I don't think AOC is a very good looking in my personal

I think she's adorable dumb of the box nails, but she's adorable.

she is definitely I don't know that she's actually dumb. I think she's just very ill educated.

Yeah. Like

won't, I won't. You you think so?

Mm-hmm

I mean you think sub 90 IQ?

think she is. No, no, no. She's got a decent IQ, but she's just dumb. Dumb doesn't mean stupid. Stupid is stupid. Dumb is just dumb.

Like I said, ill

I think she is exact, like, if she wasn't doing this, if she wasn't like the most important political person of the 22nd secondary she would probably be an actress in Hollywood. She'd be playing all the barista roles, the, the friend roles,

you think she'd be the next JLo?

She'd well, it early JLo, she like before JLo, all of a sudden somebody decided needed to get brought up into being the, the star of the movie.

Mm-hmm

Um, I think she looks better than JLo honestly could be just cuz she's younger. But I do think that she looks better than JLo. Well, she's not that young either. She's 30 now. Right?

She's 30 something.

I think she's, I thought I was 30.

Keep talking. that hole.

I don't know how that's a whole, I don't, I don't understand how saying that somebody's a beautiful woman. She's 32. How saying that somehow is bad.

I just, I don't, I, I just don't find

Did you not watch that video that she made the music video in college? That super cute.

I'm gonna send you a picture of exactly why I don't think she's attractive,

Okay. So you're probably gonna send me a picture that a a person shot shooting 20 frames per second, super fast, and catching her with a weird mouth open thing or something. Yeah. That's you can get that picture of literally anybody. I probably can get that picture of you very easily. It's it's not hard to do. And when people are in the public eye and they're constantly photographed,

Yeah, but I wouldn't say I'm a good looking guy, so, you know, there's that

Well, not compared to AAC or not. She's a much better looking guy than you

I completely agree.

no. And you know, I don't know. I've, I've always liked chicks with thighs.

yeah, I, I, the over plucked look is not a thing for

I hate it when they completely go bald in the eyebrow department, it's like, look, there's a place for you to shave and an eight, your eyebrows

Well, and not saying we want you to have a uni brow, but you know,

Well, no, that's a whole

uni brow uni brow does not look good on anyone, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

uni brow that I've seen was when what's that actress's name? Oh, goddamn Hayek

Selma Hayek.

Selma Hayek. Played what was that movie where she played the chick with a UN bro?

I have no idea.

Oh, you kidding me? It was God, I can't believe I'm like completely zing. Oh Frida, Frida collo. So Fria collo had a total UN bro brow and, but Selma Hayek is sexy. So you can you can buy those two.

Okay.

Do you know who Fria colo was?

no clue at all.

Oh, she was a famous Mexican artist.

No.

Yeah.

Seems irrelevant.

Oh, she said she, you said uni brow. So I had to mention a chick with a uni bro.

You know, but it, you say a Mexican artist that I would never have heard of in my life, but if I

Most people

say ALCU,

most people that listen to public radio know who she is.

okay. So if I sit here and say, ALCU, do you know who that is?

It's a cigar brand.

No, it's a Mexican physicist, but anyway.

It's literally a cigar brand.

Okay. Well, his family also does that then. I don't know, but ALCU is a Mexican physicist that, you know, posited

Yeah. It's ACU layer drive works. Yeah, exactly. I know that

Okay. Anyway so

ball. Goddammit. I know all about flying in space.

so, on back to guns, but in the personal realm, I finally got an optic on my pistol.

Oh, I bought a new gun, but go ahead. Talk about yours first.

Yeah. So I ended up going with the CI Romeo one. And before anyone tells me how horrible of a mistake I made one, the slide

a mistake? That's not a mistake. That's the isn't that the one that comes with it or the one's supposed to be put on there by from the factory.

yeah. Now the us army went with the Leopold, but the problem I have with Leopold is the battery life. You know, when you're giving me less than a year battery life for something that I wanna rely on, that's just not okay. So the battery life for the CI Romeo, one pro that I've got is around 20,000 hours. So if I change the battery every two years, I know it's gonna be ready into work. And I looked at the hoons.

they're very common these days. I, I was shocked at how quickly that became a normal thing.

But it's super, super useful. And if you don't believe me, go to a gun store, pick up a gun without one, and then pick up a gun with one and it will blow your mind. I'm not a super great pistol shot by any stretch, but I'm decent, but the ease at which you can be very accurate with that sort of red dot and a pistol, especially at pistol distances is just awesome. It's fantastic.

Yeah.

I also went with the I also went with the six MOA site versus the three. And my rationale there is, you know, I I'm, I don't wanna be futzing with brightness regardless of where what sort of situation I'm in. So, you know, the, the problem with a three moa.in bright sunlight is if you don't have it, the brightness turned up pretty good. It's gonna be hard to acquire. So anyway, that was the thought process behind it, but I'm pretty damn happy with the results. So,

good. I, well, I don't know why you would think that I wouldn't be, or I would at all be negative on this.

no, I, I just know some people just hates optics, but you know, it's.

I've got Sy. I, I like them. I like that. SIG is even though they're made in China, they're still give you a good lifetime warranty on them.

Well, and you know, several brands are doing that. Vortex is doing that, which vortex has come a long

didn't know. They had a lifetime. They have a lifetime.

Yep. Vortex is a lifetime warranty now. And you know, the first generation of vortex optics, I've talked about this before were trash. I couldn't stand them. The eye relief sucked. My current vortex that I do have on a gun, the one complaint I have about it is the iBox on that scope is not great. And that is a huge departure from like a Leopold or something else. But it's also two grand, less than I would spend on Leopold. And it has a decent warranty and fantastic class otherwise.

Hm. Yeah. Leap. Hold's not cheap.

no, but I mean, Chipman growing up, I had a three three by nine Leopold on my 30, 30. Right. It was

Well, they used to be cheaper.

right. But it was also the defacto brand, my dad and grandpa, and everybody went to. Right.

Mm-hmm

yeah.

I'd say it's probably the best American brand out there.

Yeah. And, and, you know, Leopold has done nothing, but get better. And Leopold and Burris in the 1990s were pretty neck and neck, but now Burris has just fallen off to, you know, nothing.

Yeah. And I, I think leap hold's gotten beyond Nikon quality.

Oh, Leopold's up there with Ze. Leopold is absolutely up there with

Well, I don't know about that, but well, I don't know that I would trust you with that then if that's what, you know, cause Ze, Ze quality glass is just, there's nothing else. Like it

Schmidt and bender. And I mean, I've, I've shot a lot of guns with a lot of scopes. And what I would say is Zeis actually since their conquest line and everything else has come down a lot and Leopold has gone up a lot. And I, and here here's the other thing, as far as feature sets,

mm-hmm

let's take glass out of the equation. They're all pretty damn equal, right? It really

I think a few brands have, in fact, I think Nikon has a little more,

Well, Nikon's no longer making scopes.

yeah, but, well, okay, fine. But they had a little more options in their scopes than some of the other

when Nikon was making scopes in the early two thousands, the fact that they did not become the Def, I mean, they were inexpensive compared to, you know, Zeis or something like that. And they were awesome. I still have a couple Nikon scopes. I've got first focal plane and second focal plane, Nikon scopes, and

well, hold on to those. They'll be going up in, in the price,

why?

cuz they're not making 'em anymore.

Right. But that I think people have moved on to other brands.

Eh, I don't know.

Anyway, but they're fantastic quality scopes. They were absolutely fantastic.

Yeah.

their Monarch and FX lines. Jesus, those are great scopes.

I think I still have a couple of those. A couple of monarchs. But I don't see anything wrong with using the SIG stuff. I don't think the SIG quality is quite as high, but they're, they're having the lifetime. No questions asked warranty is good because you know that I don't, like I don't even have that on my Tricon stuff.

Yeah. Now, to be clear on the electronic optics, like what I just got it is a lifetime warranty for everything, but the electronics. So the

it's the same thing. That's the same thing. And the, I thought that was better than that.

No. So the glass and the housing and all that is under lifetime, but the electronics is only five year. It's still a five

literally the same thing as, Tricon then cuz that's and no Tricon is seven years. And then lifetime and the glass and, and the physical,

Right. But there's

I, I think is stupid. It ought to be lifetime forever for the price you pay for a Tricon. It is crazy for them not to give you a lifetime warranty across the board.

they're definitely taking a premium on that brand. Absolutely.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think I mentioned this in the previous episode and I still haven't sent them in cuz I don't wanna pay the money right now, but like I, I need to get the treating replaced on two of my eight cogs and it's gonna cost 700 bucks

Yeah. The previous episode that will actually

a replacement.

and the new, the timeline's gonna get real screwy here, folks.

That's right. This is, this is not the new show. This is still the old show. So, but it's yeah, the prices are, so now I'm gonna be in the dilemma as to which site to get on, on my new gun as well.

So what did you

So, so, well, I actually get a couple guns, but one I got one handgun and one rifle.

Did you get the Adidas gun I sent you

I love that gun, man. I, I want that gun. I'm afraid that that would be a custom job to make, unfortunately, but that would be a super cool gun too.

I sent Jean a meme off of no, into social. It was an Adidas tracksuit themed gun, and then beneath it, it has heavy SL breathing

Mm-hmm

anyway. Yeah. Made me

is an awesome no, I totally want that. That would be an awesome, awesome thing to have.

the way. Yeah.

Yeah. In AK 47 with white furniture, with the Adidas logo on the, but stock,

Yeah.

you can't get better than that. That's like the rolls Royce again. Mm-hmm the only, the only other thing you could do is

A golden that plated desert Eagle

If you no, no, no. If you did like the barrel in, in gold, that would be the only thing that would make it.

well, the, the barrel are the are the the furniture that wraps around the Woodstock to hold it on. Kinda like a gold chain, you know, something like that.

chain, no

the best edition

gold and white is really the best combination of anything, any colors. That's an empirical fact everybody's studied. This knows this. It's just true. And it's just pure coincidence that my first card and every car I've had after that has been golden weight.

anyway. So what did you get?

Anyway. Well, I got a I got an iwi Masada, which is a a

You actually have it in your possession now.

I do not know it's still in shipping, so I've ordered it. I haven't gotten it which gives me some time to think about the optic, but that gun much like every freaking gun is precut. And so it's, it's precut for optics and it comes with four different plates. So you could put anything you want in there

cool. What do you know what it's natively precut for though? Without the plate?

I do not, no.

Yeah. So, and to be clear, this is a nitpick I'm very specific that hide over boar. That 16th of an inch matters for me. It probably doesn't for most people.

Mm-hmm

I'm just, if you've been shooting a long time and you've been shooting you, you've trained yourself. It just, you know, you know what I'm talking about.

I know, I know what you're talking about. It's it's that portion of your memory that's in your hands and not your eyeballs.

Exactly. And I it's some definitely something I could get used to, but it,

It would take you more shot. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're basically, you're having to override your hands through what you see with your eyes now.

yeah. It, it,

Cuz they used to match now they're not matching. Yep. That is true.

The Masada.

yeah, so, and I I'm, I'm kind of leaning towards getting a SIG as well. Because I got a few other SIG sites I liked, I liked the, the brand warranties and stuff. Although I didn't realize the, the lifetime didn't apply to electronics, but oh well, but part of me is still kind of trying to find my old my old yeah. Trican thank you. I just blanked it out. My old Tricon I have a Tricon gun site somewhere and this was one they don't make anymore because this used TRID.

Hmm.

All their new ones are purely electronic

So Jean, on that, if you do go to purchase a new site, look at the holo suns because they've got some solar options that are pretty cool that, you know, if there's enough ambient light, even with a dead battery, it will come on and work. And then the, the current Tricon, the RMR type two has decent enough battery life. And that would be a good option.

Well, and the, the one advantage of the Tricon is it's it's actually, you can get, they have a variant, which is much like mine, but mine was Tridium and fiber optic. They have a electronic and fiber optic combo as well now, so that that's another option from a practical standpoint, given that these things have like 20 to 50,000 hour lives, it's questionable. Whether anything even matters.

Well, and here, here's the thing. These batteries that you're using have 10 plus year shelf lives. So you could even have a stock pile of batteries for the, you know, five batteries will get you through that 10 years. And that's assuming that you're using it enough because the auto off features that they have for these. And they're so good. I, I mean, I've played with it where picking it up, touching it, bumping at anything it's on way quicker than you're gonna go from your hip to your eye.

Yeah, no, that's there's a lot of options. Let's put it that way. I like the way the hoons look, I don't like that. It's a Chinese company

I, I

I don't, I don't, I mean, a lot of companies manufacture in China or at least use Chinese parts, but actually owned by China. So

I, I, and that, that was my problem with it. And my hesitation was Chinese young, but what every gun store guy and buddy that I have and have talked to said, it's still a good optic. It's rugged enough. It handles everything

might be here's. My concern is when the war with China breaks out, then that goes away. It'll either get banned in the us side or it'll get banned from China exports one or the other, and same with support, same with parts, same with everything else.

Yeah, but it's half the cost of the SIG and Leopold and Tricon

half the cost of sick it's it is half the cost of Leopold and the Tricon, but cigs are a little cheaper.

okay. It's three quarters, the cost, whatever, it's, it's significantly less it's over a hundred dollars less.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And they, and they have way more options. Like if SIG made the same exact models as Callon does, it would be a no brainer. They would be leading the market.

well. And I think the only reason why Hollon isn't is a, the Hollon glass there, you can tell the difference in the glass. SIG has fairly decent glass. It's not the same as Leopold, but it's decent enough. The Hollon, when I held it up a I saw quite a bit of refraction to me. That was one of the things I didn't like about it now in sub 50 yard engagements. That's not really gonna matter as much. So for this type of Okta,

every professional shooter, meaning somebody does a show on YouTube has brought that issue up above Hallon

yeah,

it's that, that their glass doesn't have the right coatings on it.

Well, it, it's just the, the, it's just a slight blur to my eye

Mm-hmm

I find distracting. Now in a real world scenario, would it really matter? Probably not, but

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. CIG is, is good enough and cheap enough,

Mm,

I think for, for most things, look you're. If you're moving off iron sites, the way that I am anything's better.

well, and that, that, that actually is another thing that I liked about the Romeo one pro is because it does have a essentially a backup iron rear iron site built into it that you can utilize.

I think even the zero has that.

yeah, they, it's a feature that they've had,

Now the zero is a little slimmer too, but you

zeros also plastic.

Yeah. You didn't like the plastic. Okay. Got it. Mm-hmm

And the zero is way

but, but you know, so's my air 15, it's also plastic.

I don't know what parts of your AR 15 are plastic,

The entire thing, the whole thing,

Uhhuh,

plastic gun,

Uhhuh.

my Glock is also plastic.

Yeah. This is thin are plastic than, you know, lots of things and your Barrel's not, and yeah,

no, it's not a, the bare, but, but honestly I just took apart. My, my old, my old air, 15 style gun took it apart, took a look at it and I was just blown away at how simple it is and everything is plastic. And when I say plastic, I don't mean plastic. I'm just trying to be facetious. What I mean is polycarbonate

Like a polymer lower and stuff like that, but your uppers gonna be not.

no, it is absolutely plastic. The whole gun is plastic, the upper and

calling your hand guard maybe, but other than that, I'm

Nope. This whole gun is made of carbon it's it's carbon. It's not, it's not carbon fiber. It's carbonized plastic. It's basically plexiglass or not plexiglass, but it's what do you call that? I'll send you a picture. I, I mean, I, I don't mind taking that part there. The upper and lower are both plastic.

Mm-hmm

The only metal parts in it are the bolt, the trigger mechanism and the barrel. Everything else was plastic.

I mean, I guess you could have a plastic upper, but who, I don't know that I, I, that would be a wear item from hell

no, it's an awesome gun.

I mean your chamber and everything that's containing the pressures is in the barrel.

Yep.

but okay. I don't know. I, I guess someone may have done that, but I, I surely would rather have a aluminum.

Yeah. Well, but this thing only weighs like a pound. It's awesome.

You and your ultra light stuff, man.

And this, this the, well, I don't know if it's even true anymore, but when I bought it, which would've been about 1996 it is the lightest air 15 ever manufactured.

Hmm.

It's obviously more than the pound. I think it's about four pounds, but it is easily a pound lighter than the lightest aluminum ones I've seen. and there the, but no parts are interchangeable. Everything is custom. So custom, lower custom, upper custom everything.

so it's a AR a AR tens a few years ago and stuff like that. Do you know who manufactured it?

Yeah. As a company, it doesn't exist anymore. It was called what was it called? Something ordinance,

Huh? So there are a couple companies that are doing something similar today looks like so, okay. Interesting.

It's of carbon 15 is the gun. And it was made by so Bushmaster bought the company that actually made it and then kept the name for a much less plastic version of the gun, but oh, professional ordinance. That's what it was. It was made by a company called professional ordinance.

where everything goes to die.

Yeah, exactly. And I have like serial number 150.

Nice. That's a collectible gun.

Yeah. So that's probably why I'm gonna try and sell it as a collectible gun

Hmm.

rather, cuz it's not, I mean, it's not worth selling as a normal gun, but as a collector collector's item,

so it's

probably worth a few bucks.

because I didn't realize this, but a buddy of mine who has an AR pistol has the push master carbon 15 type AR pistol looking at the photos. It's definitely the same thing.

yeah. That's not what mine looks like. Mine looks completely different than that. But what you do see in that photo is the upper and lower that's the Bush master version, but both the upper and lower is still plastic on that one. Mine gun doesn't doesn't have a that what's that button on the right side for your, the manual pushing the, the load thing. The

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the slide release.

No, not the slide release. You need that? No, no. The button on the right side, the thumb button, like if you're, if you are trying to force the round into your barrel

Oh, the forward. Yeah. Yeah.

for assist,

not a, not a, yeah, it's not a thumb button. It's

completely unnecessary part in a well made gun. You don't need that, so it should not exist. So my gun doesn't have that, for example.

Yeah. And, and lots of people have argued that it was part of the original stoner design, but you know what I would say there is, so was a, a non Chrome lined barrel. And if you had a non Chrome lined barrel a lot Vietnam, when the first was released, yeah. There was a, there was a use case in a modern gun. I, I tend to agree with you there. I can, I have never used the forward assist on my

No nobody's ever used one. You don't need it. None of my AR 15 style guns have a forwarder system. It's just not necessary

I'll tell you where I know a buddy who hunts with an AR 15 has used it

where

when he is walking to whatever stand he's going to. And he wants to put around in the chamber, but doesn't wanna allow the bolt to just go home. So he pulls back and slides and lets the bolt ish

you have a friend that misuses it.

and then uses the forward assist to get the bolt to lock.

Yeah. That's a misuse of it.

I, but it's a quieter way of doing it. So for the purpose of hunting and not making a lot of noise and

Why would you not just chamber beforehand?

that's what I do. I'm just, he didn't wanna walk in with one in the chamber. I don't know why

That is nuts. The other thing that's not necessary is a safety. I don't understand why people put those on there.

totally disagree with you.

Why is that?

I like a safety.

Never understood it. Don't like, 'em, they're

Especially on a long

only one safety you need and that one's on your hand. It never leaves your

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So on a pistol, that's in a holster with a good trigger guard. I can kind of agree with you there. I personally grew up with safeties and that's just part of that mechanics. It's like having the optic on a plate higher, I can get used to it, whatever.

Well, and, and I would say like on the Remington 700, I, I could see putting a safety in there just because the trigger travel is so small and the, the, if you have a good trigger, the amount of pressure is so small. Like that actually is makes sense. But when you're talking about a military style, six pound trigger

Yeah, but when you're talking about a two and a half pound trigger with no uptake, no slop you

that's literally what I just.

yeah.

Yeah.

But even on an AR 15, if you've got a decent drop in replacement trigger, you're still talking no, take up no slop and you know, maybe four pounds. So, mm.

yeah, well, anyway, so, I mean the, the good thing about safety is there's no, it's not a problem to have one, right. Because if you don't want to use it, you just don't use it.

Yeah.

Like it's better to have for a gun to have a safety and then not use it. If you don't want to use it, then forget to not have one when you want to use it.

Well, literally part of the reason why I bought the M 17 was I wanted a full size gun. That's why I didn't get the 18, but it was the SIG P three 20 that I liked the design of. I liked a lot of the internal flexibility of the gun and it had a external safety and a lot of modern struck fire pistols. These days it's getting harder and harder to find.

Yep. Yep. Nope. That is true. So what were we talking about? We're talking about the plastic rifle. What else? Oh yeah. So if anybody wants to buy a collectors in 'em let me know.

so, what other gun did

shot it

you got a

a decade more than a decade. Oh. I also wanna sell a Mossberg nine 30. That's never been shot. That was like a backup sitting in the back of the safe kinda gun.

Yeah. And that's a tactical version of it, correct?

That's the tactical with the BI on top with the full length tube. It's not the pistol grip version. It's the regular version. I've never particularly been a fan of pistol grip shotguns. I don't know why it just like, I'm comfortable with a pistol grip rifle, but a shotgun with a pistol grip just doesn't feel right. I dunno why

I, you know, and I also

used to, I guess

I long barreled shotguns are a thing for me. Right. You know, 20 plus inch barrels is always where I wanna be on a

32, man. Absolutely.

Yeah. You know, yeah. You know, E E even for a home defense, the 18 and a half inch barrel just feels weird to me that just always has.

it it's, it's a little on the shorty side. That's for sure. So I, I mentioned that I got the the 40 caliber folding

Mm-hmm

last time on the last show. So the other gun that I just got that I physically also got now is a SIG 5 56, right. Now do you know, you

the SIG 5 56 SWAT.

Yeah. The SIG that's yeah, the SW version, correct.

That's a cool gun.

Yeah, it's a that one is a rifle. So full length, 60 inch barrel and normal

think they made it in the 16 inch barrel. I guess it's a

mm-hmm yeah, so this gun happened to actually be a police gun. And so I got it used. But the good news is it was a police gun and therefore it had hardly been used at all.

Oh yeah.

Uhhuh even

rounds down the barrel maybe.

It said it 250 total rounds

Oh my

since they got it, which was, it was better than that. Cuz it was a sergeant's gun. Right. So it's it's basic. It was a guy, it was a, it was a gun for somebody that basically sits behind a desk all the time. So it was the most decked out gun that they had, but it was also the least used gun. So I'm like, yep. I'll take that. Perfect.

So you bought it from the police department.

I, well, the police department doesn't sell guns to people. They, they contract out within FFL to do that for them.

Right. But so this FFL specializes in that sort of thing.

Yeah. They just, they just sell guns to cops basically. So they, they it's, it's like a cop supply shop

So see if CSBs paying attention, you just admitted your law enforcement

I am not admitting anything to anyone of any country, especially not somebody that's sitting in Ireland and is from Poland.

well, you just said this FFL sells to, you know, cops, so,

yeah, no, they sell to everybody apparently. So anyway, this is a, this is a, a really neat looking gun. It has two grips. So it has a four grip as well as a standard grip. It is a SIG gun. It is essentially an AR lower with an AK 47 upper and it's in 5 56,

no buffer tube.

no buffer tube. Right? So it has a folding stock of real from the factory folding stock in a lot of ways, this gun is the great granddad of the current MCX line of guns from SIG

Yeah. Yeah.

three generations back from the MCs,

Yeah. The spear,

yeah, but it it's essentially that can also has a four grip with an integrated flashlight on it. Which I love the fact that the flashlight has a confusion mode on it.

your strobe, you mean?

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. My in any home defense gun should have a strobe on it. It's great. I will say that as soon as the spear is offered in a 3 0 8 or 300 win mag, I will be purchasing one

it's currently just in 5

eight fury.

Oh, just the, oh, oh, right, right, right. It's 68 fur eight, right. Yeah. I, I can't imagine that they wouldn't sell other calibers soon.

Well, I mean the military and the fury will probably come down in price in the next decade, but it's gonna take a decade to do it cuz the military, if they really do go to deploy that as a, the new battle rifle are going to be purchasing millions and millions and millions of rounds of ammunition,

is the spear different from just an MCX you can buy right now?

Chamber pressures.

But I mean, the chamber pressure, that's only because of the, the six, eight caliber. So,

the stroke as well,

I, I guess what I'm getting is why would you wait for a spear to be available in 5 56 when you can buy an MCX today? Which is

I don't want

the Spears based? Uh, Oh, what do you want? Oh, you want 3 0 8. Okay. So you want 7 62?

Yes.

Yeah. And, and is the MCX not available in 7 62? Right.

Don't believe so.

I don't know, I haven't checked. So I, you know, I don't know if they currently are

all the MCs are pistol variants. I don't want a pistol.

Well, the, the, the spear is a 12 inch barrel. Isn't it?

Mm-hmm

It's not, I thought it was,

well, it's also got the suppressor and all that.

yeah. So it's a, it's a 12 inch barrel with

But I want a civilian version with that, that doesn't require an NFA item here

So you want a spear, which is, but you want it in a 7 62

with a 16 inch

and with a 16 inch barrels, which, and I, you could literally buy that gun today. You don't need to wait for anything.

Please show me.

A I SIG yeah, I, I SIG with a 3 0 8. You could totally buy that.

We'll we'll. We'll

we'll have to do some Googling on the websites. I'm pretty sure that that that's available right now. I dunno, every time I go to six website, they try to get me to build my own three 20 and then charge me two grand for it every

Well that's because you want the crazy cutouts and the gold and yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. who wouldn't want that? I mean,

I wouldn't at

You, you wouldn't want the white gun with gold trim and an Adidas logo. Are you nuts?

Nope, no.

That's crazy. Anyway, so I I'm digging this gun. This gun has the, how do I describe it? It is the, my it's a very good trigger. I was gonna say it's my favorite trigger, but I can't say that because my favorite trigger was a gun on the gun that I sold that I don't own anymore. Probably will never have a trigger like that again. I had a mountain Eagle sniper rifle, and that thing had this trigger was like, you could just breathe on it and it would go off. It was perfect.

Hmm.

It was, it became a part of your finger. Like as soon as your finger was on it, you didn't feel a trigger anymore. It was really good. That was a completely useless gun. That was really cool.

What gun was that?

what,

What gun was that?

that was a mountain Eagle, 3 0 8 sniper.

Hmm.

It was a carbon fiber gun.

Shit.

and it was pretty heavy. I mean, the barrel was over an inch diameter.

Eh, well, with the early carbon fiber barrels, it had to be Cuz of stress. Yeah.

Well, the, the amazing thing about it is the heat dissipation was so good that your first and second round hit the same hole that, that gun I had it, so I bought it used, it was part of a matched set of two guns that was sold to a politician and ended up in the shop that I used to buy guns from. And I bought it and I shipped it back to to what's the company up there. I mean, it's basically iwi, but it's the American side of it.

Whoa, there you go. So the SIG MCX patrol version does come in a 16 inch barreled

There you go.

but it's only available in 5

have it in the are all of 'em just strictly in 5 56. They haven't

size six and 300 blackout is what they have on their website right now. And that's they don't even have the 2 27 fury yet.

So that's interesting. So if they have the blackout, that means they have the barrel that can run 3 0 8 through it.

Yep,

They just need the lower that'll handle 3 0 8.

correct?

if you could just take the upper off of that and slap it onto your own lower and have the gun you want.

Mm. The upper is what would have to change the upper and the lower cuz the magazine. Well, everything.

Yeah. I guess both of 'em would have to change when they, yeah, that's true. Yeah. So they just don't have it. They don't have it in 3 0 8 yet. Well, they will. I'm sure. If there's, yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of people clamoring to buy that gun and something else now. And why do you not want to buy it in the fury? In the six, eight.

Reloading the, the biomed metal casing and just the civilian variant of the 2 27 fury is I, I would, I would buy it in six, five CRE more before, before I'd buy in 2 27 fury

Oh, okay.

And everything else. Just, just not wanting to adopt another cartridge. That for me, my purposes and the way I wanna use it, I don't see a lot of advantage.

Mm

Now you give me the full on military version of the six, eight, where I can, that I could potentially reload. I'd be all over that in a heartbeat

but I guess with biomed cases, it'd be pretty hard to reload anything wouldn't it.

currently impossible. Yeah. With civilian reloading equipment.

Right, right. You need the commercial quality stuff. Um Hmm. Yeah. Well that, that probably means that they will be,

But you know, it's like why the us military and other militaries have used like bean primers in the past. They're not planning on reloading and they want something that it fits their purpose, but you know,

cheaper or what's the advantage?

it, it it's less likely to have the primer pop out, so it's locked into the case better versus just a pressure fit primer, like the civilian ammo and reloading world uses.

mm-hmm interesting.

So yeah, I mean, you can reload Dan primed cases, but it literally takes popping out the primer, which is pain in the ass with bean primers, then you have to take a tool and go in and reshape the primer hole. And then if you take too much, it will never fit. Right. It's just not worth it.

Hmm.

So

I, you know, I you've, you've answered a question that I've had for a long time, which is exactly what's different about that primer. So

essentially the, the bean primer just has pressure points sticking in that holds it in better. So the thought processes that Burdan primed ammo should have a longer shelf life that under adverse conditions should perform better. Things like that. You can theoretically do a hotter load and a Burdan primed round, even though military loads generally aren't because you're not gonna have enough pressure on the, the, the primer. Isn't gonna pop back into the the chamber of the gun

mm-hmm

and cause a mal.

got it. Okay.

Which part of the reason why the six, eight fury round had to go with BI metal is because, you know, a, they had to get around the pressures that they were doing. And then B you know, the brass, the pressures that they were doing on the brass would expand to the point where you were gonna get primer pops, no matter what, that's, why they went with the steel casing on the bottom.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then the rest of it's plastic too.

No, they looked at a ammo variant that

Oh, they didn't pick

would save

they went with the other one. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, no, it it's brass. And and steel casing.

Got it. Okay. Oh, that's that is interesting. So do you just shoot stuff you reload or do you buy am occasionally?

I buy ammo. I, I, I definitely buy ammo, but I, and I'll buy be and prime surplus ammo to GoLink and do whatever. But you know, I, I, especially for long range stuff, like my 300, my, you know, I, I will go out and buy a box of hunting ammo every now and then if I wanna do that, but you know, when I'm shooting that gun over 5, 6, 700 yards, it's hand loaded stuff I've done on a single stage press.

Okay. Got it.

you know, I I'm, I'm the kind of guy when I'm loading something like that, it's, you know, very meticulous, very consistent, well above any match grade ammo I could buy you know, on the market.

Yeah. And I think some people reload to save money. You don't care about that. So you're just doing it from a quality standpoint.

well, you know, like AR rounds and things like that, or, you know, like something I'm gonna put through my AR 10 or my SOCOM 16, or my six, eight AR those I'm loading in, in much more big bulk processes just to have better ammo, cheaper, you know?

So, I, I found the picture without, you know, stopping and taking a photo of my own gun. I found the picture of the carbon 15 online here. So I just sent it to you. And it's the one on top the pistol. I don't have the pistol version. I have the rifle version,

Gotcha. Gotcha.

but it is literally the whole thing is just carbon fiber, the whole damn gun or, or plastic. However you wanna look at it. I mean, it's not really carbon fiber. It is a carbonized plastic kind of material. That's really like heavy duty plastic, but it's essentially plastic, upper lower everything

Everything. But the barrel and bolt

Yep. Barrel bolts. Gas tube is metal and the the trigger mechanism is metal. But pretty much everything else, but it, you know, breaks down with two pins, just like a normal AR in

about the buffer tube?

it does have a buffer tube. Yeah. The buffer tube is plastic. The spring is metal. Spring is

and the buffer I'm getting bedding or metal

Buffer's plastic. The spring is metal. Yeah.

I, I

Yeah. I just, I just

it heavy enough.

It's very light. It's not heavy at all. I think the buffer is bare. I mean, if it's announced, I be shocked. It's very light.

Interesting. So that, that is, that is gonna have a weird recoil impulse.

It's not. Yes. Yes. It's more Reilly. You feel it more than you do with a typical air.

I mean, you'd have to, cause you don't have that weight of that buffer to absorb.

Correct. Exactly.

is by the way, for those who don't know, that's

But look at the length of the buffer spring though, on the rifle version,

yeah,

it's really long.

yeah. Gotcha.

And the irony is this is, this is I found funny. So this is a rifle bought, you know, over 20 years ago, the what, what is a stock on that gun today would be referred to as not a stock, but a pistol brace

as yeah. Shooting brief.

because there's almost nothing there. It's just a slight little sliver of plastic. That's sticking out of the buffer tube. I mean, it's just like, I always wanted it to have a bigger pad in the back you know? But it,

More surface area.

more surface area. Yeah. Just to spread that impact that impulse. But it doesn't, but the barrel is full length.

go ahead.

No, that's I was just saying it's it is, it is still a technically an AR

Well, Jean, you showed me something new.

a plastic gun

Well, I just didn't, wasn't familiar with the plastic upper. I mean, I've got a polymer lower,

Yep.

but,

Yeah. And it it's I don't know. I, I think I'm trying to remember how much I've shot that gun. I'd say that gun right now has probably got probably about 5,000 round strip right around there.

Well, I mean, if it's worn that, well, then that's not.

and it's very clean when I took it apart. I was kind of shocked it's it's direct impingement, so there's no complex mechanism or anything in there, but it was still pretty clean. So, ah,

a lot of the problem with direct impingement really comes down to the ammo. You're firing if you're firing decent

Oh, yeah. I, I only use expensive ammo and I don't do reloaded

and then the other question is, are you shooting a caliber and appropriate barrel length so that the powder is being fully consumed before he hits that gas port? That's another

Now, maybe this is something you can control when you're loading yourself, which again, I like my dad used to reload. So I always had a free supply of ammo, but I never really got into reloading myself. But it seemed like for typical federal 5:56 AM that I would normally be shooting the, you don't get a full burn on the powder until about a 14 inch barrel.

yep. Pretty

Is that still the case? If you're, can you get faster burning?

So you can control the type of powder that you're putting in there to an extent, and some of it's gonna be hotter than, or

of 'em are faster burning or

absolutely.

so, so can you get, can you, like, if you were reloading yourself, can you get a different powder that would let you do a full burn in like a 12 inch barrel?

I don't know, specifically for 5 56, cuz I have never reloaded 5 56, but for instance, on some of the six, eight stuff for SPC, you could literally, depending on, you know, you could fully consume for a subsonic round powder in an eight inch barrel pretty easily. So there are two, there are two variables there that are gonna matter.

So do, do you bring your rig out to the gun range so you can just make a new round and test it right away? Or how does that

no, no, no, no. You develop loads. So you, you start off

Oh, so you pre-built different ones and then you test them one at a time.

Yeah. Well, generally when I'm doing my load development, I do three rounds of each formula that I'm gonna shoot. And also, depending on the type of application, if you're talking as semiautomatic, like an AR, then you're not looking at grouping near as much as you are outta something like, you know, a, a bolt gun, a bolt gun, first of all, finding the right round for that gun and that barrel and how that's gonna shoot with that particular head spacing that you have actually really matters.

And this is why the good, like good publications, meaning not YouTube that actually do tests of guns will do that, that test of a particular weapon with multiple brands of ammo, not just the same brand with different weights and then show you like which brand does this gun like?

Yep.

Absolutely.

So anyway, when I'm doing my load development depending on what type of guns for I'll usually start with three rounds of four or five different

yeah.

plays, whether it's different types of powder, different weight combinations, or even down to, okay. I, I think I've got the powder where I want it. Let me, I'm gonna shoot the same grain bullet, but let me play around with the Sierra match king versus the horny, you know, and find the exact right projectile.

Mm-hmm

Yeah.

no, that's cool.

Yeah. And then you start with your dope cards and you start building out, you know, coefficients and everything else, a distance

yep. That's I think you could get that on your phone these days.

okay.

Dope carts anyway. Just look up dope cart app. I think we've got enough, Ben. We, I just realized it's well over two hours that we've been Y.

yeah, the only problem is my sandwich theory at the beginning of the show. Totally. Didn't happen on this one. so,

Well, you're saying this conversation about plastic guns wasn't serious enough for you. Is that it

it wasn't the what I was meaning. No,

mm-hmm mm-hmm

So

well, I think this is a, you know, we don't just talk about guns. Obviously we did more so on this episode than we normally do. We usually get it more into political stuff and other craziness that's happening around the world. But it just so happened that lately, since I've been kind of gun shopping and spending a lot of time looking at stuff, and you went and got a new gun and a new site for it, that this is this has been a topic that's easy to talk about.

Well we can just end it by saying the queen is dead.

Yeah, that's right. That's a sad thing, I guess. I don't know. I mean, some people think she's dead. I'm not quite sure she's dead.

I don't know anyone who thinks it's.

just, I think she's just retired, but it is sad. It's the, you really, you would, you rather have Charles than her.

I mean, it's like when daddy Bush died, I that, you

He's

didn't make

I don't. Why do people keep saying that he's not dead? He's he's retired. He's just retired.

Yeah. Okay.

no, I just, I, I know how long lizard lived, dude. And then under a hundred years is not even the.

okay.

Much much longer anyway, with that. We'll go ahead and wrap it up. And then we will, we'll have episode one as soon as everything is ready, meaning the music, the cover arts, all that good stuff, the website. So, and obviously we're gonna make a big, a big deal about it on Ergen speaks as well. And talk about knowledge on the social so that everybody knows when a new podcast is up, but we're not quite there yet, but we still wanted to get this episode recorded. That's it?

gene as always, it was good. Good talking to you. Good therapy session. Ready for the new show.

that's sometimes what I feel like is I'm providing therapy. All right, everybody, we'll see you next time.